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Nvidia questions Apple's A5X chip claims

Nvidia questions Apple's A5X chip claims

Nvidia has hit back at claims from Apple that its latest A5X processor boasts four times the graphics performance of the Tegra 3.

Nvidia has hit back at Apple's claims that its A5X processor, as found in the new iPad, boasts four times the graphics performance of the Tegra 3 'Kal-El' processor.

Apple's announcement of the new iPad earlier this week brought a surprising claim. While the high-resolution display and improved camera were expected, the A5X processor at the heart of the new tablet brought with it a bold claim: four times the graphics performance of Nvidia's Tegra 3 offering.

With Nvidia positioning the Tegra 3 system-on-chip design as the obvious choice for high-performance tablets, smartphones and portable gaming devices, those are fighting words. They're also difficult to quantify: full specifications for the A5X have not been released, and while it's known to have two central processing cores and four graphics processing cores the Tegra 3 boasts four CPU cores, 12 GPU pipelines and a low-power 'companion core.'

Nvidia, naturally, isn't taking the snub lying down. 'We don't have the benchmark information,' Nvidia's Ken Brown complained to ZDNet regarding Apple's bold claims. 'We have to understand what the application was that was used. Was it one or a variety of applications? What drivers were used? There are so many issues to get into with benchmarks.'

Nvidia isn't the only one scoffing at Apple's claims. Tablet maker Asus took to Twitter to point out that Apple's claims of a quad-core GPU in the new iPad are somewhat overshadowed by the 12 cores in the Tegra 3. The company has good reason to leap to Nvidia's defence: the Tegra 3 forms the heart of its latest Asus Transformer Prime tablet, and will likely be found in the company's rumoured 11.6in high-resolution Eee Pad offering too.

With Apple refusing to release performance figures for the A5X or details of the benchmark used to reach the claim of a quadrupling of graphics performance, the argument is likely to go unsettled until the new iPad can be independently tested. If true, though, it's a blow for Nvidia. The company has always prided itself on graphics performance, and if a company which doesn't even make processors - the A5X is based on IP from British chip giant ARM and produced by third parties like Samsung - can leave it in the dust it's going to be a major blow to the corporate ego.

59 Comments

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Madness_3d 9th March 2012, 11:33 Quote
Yeah, as soon as I saw that claim I just thought what on earth are apple smoking. But of course apple fan boys will lap it up and brush off any question of inaccuracy in the figures. Really had enough of Apple playing this game now. Either up your game, or don't make up rubbish about performance that isn't there
wuyanxu 9th March 2012, 11:34 Quote
lol, 12 cores, does Asus know they are talking about pipelines, not cores?

here's a related article: http://www.anandtech.com/show/5663/analysis-of-the-new-apple-ipad/1
B1GBUD 9th March 2012, 12:01 Quote
I had an Asus Eee-pad and thought it was clunky as hell, compared to a 1st Gen iPad.

I'd like to see how Apple came up with their figures though, not that it will stop me getting an iPad 3.
Snips 9th March 2012, 12:22 Quote
What's an iPad?
Bauul 9th March 2012, 12:32 Quote
Raw power counts for very little when faced with efficiently designed software. If Apple are taking into account all the overheads that Tegra 3 has to put up with when running an OS like Win 7, I wouldn't be surprised if they were talking truthfully.

It does surprise me that Apple are talking about benchmarks: they're offering has never been based on pure power, it's all about the delivery. As soon as they start talking numbers they're unpicking the overall experience that people really sign-up to Apple for.
javaman 9th March 2012, 12:47 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by wuyanxu
lol, 12 cores, does Asus know they are talking about pipelines, not cores?

here's a related article: http://www.anandtech.com/show/5663/analysis-of-the-new-apple-ipad/1

Yea thats the point theyre making. Apple twisted something that isn't remotely related which lead asus to twisted something that was so as to hit back. The underlying point is if your gonna twist something dont twist the wrong thing or you look like an even bigger numpty. It wasnt an attempt to be correct but to point out apple barely undertand archeticture so whats the chances of them getting it right? Maybe with graphics it does just work for Apple!
hexx 9th March 2012, 13:22 Quote
i was quite surprised that they've mentioned it at all. I just find all tech specs completely irrelevant on iPad, it either runs smoothly or it doesn't :)
Guinevere 9th March 2012, 13:40 Quote
Apple have shown time and time again on the iOS platform that BetterSpecification != BetterPerformance. So I very much doubt a Tegra device will out perform a new iPad in real world tests / apps / games.

Trouble is...

The new iPad has x2 the performance of an iPad 2 but x4 the pixels. Has that additional x2 performance figure been normalised for the extra resolution? Do we get x2 the performance when pumping x4 the pixels using x4 texture sizes? Or is it based on rendering the "old" 3D at the same 1024x768 res?

Basically can we bump up to retina resolution and get x2 the "stuff on screen" or x2 the FPS?

My gut feeling (based on knowing how Apple work as an iOS developer) I'd say if a game moves to retina resolutions and tries to use x4 the texture sizes then we'll see a similar (or lower FPS) to an iPad 2.

In reality I think we'll see games look a lot better without any slowdown as the devs will simply optimise things based on what works and looks best. They won't need to use x4 the textures for everything.

I'll let you all know next week.
Guinevere 9th March 2012, 13:50 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bauul
It does surprise me that Apple are talking about benchmarks: they're offering has never been based on pure power, it's all about the delivery. As soon as they start talking numbers they're unpicking the overall experience that people really sign-up to Apple for.

I think they're defending the counter arguments before they arrive.

Q: Why is it thicker than the old one, what gives?
A: Because of that screen, we had to raise the pixels up.

Q: Isn't that crazy res going to slow things down?
A: No see, we're x4 better than the best of the rest.

It's all marketing. The iPad will be snappy and smooth and games will look great no matter what spec the damn thing has. They've added an additional 50% of battery capacity in there to cope with the extra demand from the new GPU and doubled up the RAM as well.

Asus, Nvidia KNOW they are back playing catch-up. They have great spec, they have great screens and the eco-system is getting better and better all the time but they are still have a bit further to go.
trig 9th March 2012, 14:33 Quote
im curious to see this ipad tbh...the first "real" release of an item that had virtually no production ready approval from jobs...

speaking of which, not sure why you guys are surprised they are talking about performance now...jobs is gone...he is the one that pushed the "who cares about power specs when we look this good" front...now the new guy wants to take on the world with a e-peen measuring stick...i say let him...chances are they will come up short, but still look better than anything else, which is why i own an epic touch, and apple stock...
schmidtbag 9th March 2012, 15:37 Quote
apple has a knack for pissing off the companies who help them. they sue companies like samsung for making a phone that just simply looks similar, yet samsung probably makes half the components inside any apple product. apple decided to drop adobe flash support almost completely, when macs (for some reason) are considered god-like machines for for media production - so apple basically just limited their users from a form of media. and now apple is throwing out this ridiculous claim toward nvidia? apple uses nvidia for graphics on their higher-end computers. nvidia can just change their mind and stop supporting apple if they really want. even apple using non-intel processors for ipad could be considered an insult to intel. if apple loses intel, their company as a whole is lost.

apple keeps acting like they're the boss of everyone. steve jobs had a big ego but when your company has one too, it makes the customers look bad.
kenco_uk 9th March 2012, 15:59 Quote
I'd rather hope that Apple's new chip does actually blow Tegra3 out of the water - it would certainly make not only NVidia but the whole industry sit up and take note. The cynical/perhaps logical part of me thinks it's just marketing and is based on some strange benchmark that's not really relevant.
DbD 9th March 2012, 16:02 Quote
The thing is that very little is graphics bound on a tablet. What do you do with it - surf the web, read emails, browse facebook - all cpu tasks not graphics. Some tasks do use graphics but if you can do it then you can do it such as watching movies - if it runs without dropping frames then a faster gpu doesn't help.

Hence it's really only for the odd game that graphics are really important, the rest of the time it's the cpu that matters.

In this measure tegra 3 thrashes apple because the new ipad is still only a dual core A9, where as tegra 3 is a quad core A9. Hence I'd expect it to be better at all the things above.

Sounds to me that apple is just trying to distract attention from that. I bet if they have the faster cpu in the iPad 4 then they'll not even mention graphics and instead tell the world the cpu is everything.
alf- 9th March 2012, 16:05 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by schmidtbag
apple has a knack for pissing off the companies who help them. they sue companies like samsung for making a phone that just simply looks similar, yet samsung probably makes half the components inside any apple product. apple decided to drop adobe flash support almost completely, when macs (for some reason) are considered god-like machines for for media production - so apple basically just limited their users from a form of media. and now apple is throwing out this ridiculous claim toward nvidia? apple uses nvidia for graphics on their higher-end computers. nvidia can just change their mind and stop supporting apple if they really want. even apple using non-intel processors for ipad could be considered an insult to intel. if apple loses intel, their company as a whole is lost.

apple keeps acting like they're the boss of everyone. steve jobs had a big ego but when your company has one too, it makes the customers look bad.

Apple, Samsung and nividia are massive multi-billion dollar companies, they aren't kids, so the idea that nvidia or samsung will stop supplying apple with their products, because apple said some mean things is absurd.

these companies have a responsibility to their shareholders to make money, they aren't going to let minor squabbles get in the way of that.
Malfrex 9th March 2012, 16:32 Quote
This is all I have to say in response to Apple: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMTU4qbbv20

Yes, the higher-res screen is great and I think it will help push forward high-res screens for other tablets/computers, but in the end its just a lot of flashy lights with an incremental improvement.
brave758 9th March 2012, 16:34 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snips
What's an iPad?

Isn't it that thing women use once a month???
brave758 9th March 2012, 16:35 Quote
Quote:

:D +rep
Tangster 9th March 2012, 16:38 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by schmidtbag
apple has a knack for pissing off the companies who help them. they sue companies like samsung for making a phone that just simply looks similar, yet samsung probably makes half the components inside any apple product. apple decided to drop adobe flash support almost completely, when macs (for some reason) are considered god-like machines for for media production - so apple basically just limited their users from a form of media. and now apple is throwing out this ridiculous claim toward nvidia? apple uses nvidia for graphics on their higher-end computers. nvidia can just change their mind and stop supporting apple if they really want. even apple using non-intel processors for ipad could be considered an insult to intel. if apple loses intel, their company as a whole is lost.

apple keeps acting like they're the boss of everyone. steve jobs had a big ego but when your company has one too, it makes the customers look bad.

Adobe did respond by taking a long, long time to get an x64 release of their software released on apple.
rollo 9th March 2012, 17:04 Quote
samsung still sell to apple despite been sued by them for the last 3 years

actually a good 50% of apple componenets come from samsung ( would like to see cash samsung made from apple bet its alot )

Nvidia stop offering gpus to apple that would be funny its not apple that loses out as they dont use nvidia gpus anyway in there laptops its all AMD has been for last 3 generations. you can no longer select nvidia as an option on Macs, Apple doesnt use there products due to power concerns since 4xx series

Same question about Intel

iphone and ipad ipod touch is 90% of there revenue.

Big companies talk trash about each other every other day there job is to make money. All the companies you listed besides nvidia

Make a tonne of cash of apple
schmidtbag 9th March 2012, 17:41 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by alf-
Apple, Samsung and nividia are massive multi-billion dollar companies, they aren't kids, so the idea that nvidia or samsung will stop supplying apple with their products, because apple said some mean things is absurd.

these companies have a responsibility to their shareholders to make money, they aren't going to let minor squabbles get in the way of that.

suing samsung for money is not a "minor squabble". threatening to drop support for a product is not a "minor squabble". treating like the people who support you as lower-beings is not good PR.
tonyd223 9th March 2012, 17:53 Quote
Apple how you tempt me with your wares and your lies. I love you I hate you I...

No, wait - Android forever!
alf- 9th March 2012, 18:24 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by schmidtbag
suing samsung for money is not a "minor squabble". threatening to drop support for a product is not a "minor squabble". treating like the people who support you as lower-beings is not good PR.


to coin a phrase “it's just business nothing personal"

Samsung, nvidia and any other supplier will continue to do business with apple as long as its mutually beneficial, and so far its been incredibly beneficial to Samsung, apple is their second biggest customer in regards to electronics, do you really think Samsung will throw that relationship out of the window because apple is suing them?

as i said Samsung and other public companies need to make money, their shareholders don't want Samsung to sacrifice that because Samsung wants to huff about being sued.
schmidtbag 9th March 2012, 18:38 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by alf-
to coin a phrase “it's just business nothing personal"

Samsung, nvidia and any other supplier will continue to do business with apple as long as its mutually beneficial, and so far its been incredibly beneficial to Samsung, apple is their second biggest customer in regards to electronics, do you really think Samsung will throw that relationship out of the window because apple is suing them?

as i said Samsung and other public companies need to make money, their shareholders don't want Samsung to sacrifice that because Samsung wants to huff about being sued.

true, but samsung could easily survive without apple. yes, they'd make noticeably less money but if apple were gone, people will look for an alternative, and that alternative is very likely to have something samsung-made in it. same with all the other companies i mentioend (maybe not so much adobe).

just because a company profits from apple, it doesn't mean they have to put up with apple's demands. apple is in no position to boss others around since they are so heavily dependant upon others. yes, apple has very successful indivicdual products, but that's because they generally only release 1 product at a time per version - theres no manufacturer competition for ios. if that 1 manufacturer screws up or decides to leave apple, then apple has a huge problem to deal with, but that manufacturer is free to do w/e they want and survive.

i personally don't see companies like samsung leaving apple any time soon, but my point is they could do it and they could easily survive without apple, so apple better watch their backs if they want to push everyone around.
Nanu 9th March 2012, 18:48 Quote
[QUOTE=Guinevere]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bauul


Asus, Nvidia KNOW they are back playing catch-up. They have great spec, they have great screens and the eco-system is getting better and better all the time but they are still have a bit further to go.

You're not serious are you? do you really think that nvidia are playing catch up to arm?

I think the main point to make is that all the non-mac users out there who have half a clue how to use a machine and don't require an over-priced dumbed-down experience are simply in shock at the shear size of apples balls. Yet again they claim to be fastest....

pictures or didn't happen.

Oh yeah... apple will NEVER be fastest, especially not when price is taken into acount... though normally that doesn't even matter anyway.

Anybody remember the G4 launch? lol...
Lenderz 9th March 2012, 19:19 Quote
Quote:
The company has always prided itself on graphics performance, and if a company which doesn't even make processors - the A5X is based on IP from British chip giant ARM and produced by third parties like Samsung - can leave it in the dust it's going to be a major blow to the corporate ego.

Well as I understand it ARM doesn't make the graphics part of the Apple chips, rather its an another quiet British giants part, Imagination Technologies core/cores bundled alongside the ARM chip that Apple brand (A4, A5, A5X).

And Imagination Technologies has been in the Graphics, and mobile graphics biz for 20 years+. I think its either a PowerVR G6200 or G6400 GPU in the A5X. Which is apparently has 20x the power of the GPU in the iPhone4S by Imagination's own benchmarks (take with bucket of salt).

Lots of people missing this in this thread, I'm surprised Bit-Techers. If theres anything to be irritated about its Apples "OUR GREAT NEW GRAPHICS TECHNOLOGY" but no mention of who they licence it from. But to be fair they do the same with the CPU's from ARM claiming the A4/A5 were something special made out of Apples magic pixie dust.

But then their keynotes ARE marketing events, to LAUNCH a product, I'm often surprised how few journalists question what they're being told and how many media outlets bleat the same press releases. (Not a dig at Bit-Tech who are not by far the most guilty of doing this).


Edit:

Interesting information about Apples usage of Imaginations GPUs, Apple’s A5 chip uses Imagination’s PowerVR SGX543MP2 GPU unit which delivers a "ninefold performance increase" (Imaginations numbers not mine) compared to the A4 chip. The previous A4 chip inside iPhone 4 and iPad 1 is based around the single-core PowerVR SGX 535 GPU, the very same GPU thats in the iPhone 3GS. I would be very surprised if the A5X isn't just an A5 with a Imagination 6 series GPU.
Guinevere 9th March 2012, 19:41 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanu
You're not serious are you? do you really think that nvidia are playing catch up to arm?

Yes of course I'm serious. When it comes to tablets it's obvious that nvidia is playing catch up to Apple. When it comes to tablets everyone is playing catch up to Apple!

As I said, the spec is great and the android eco system gets better all the time but how many Tegra's have they really sold? How many triple A titles are developed? How much revenue do they generate?

Yes it's a lot and tegra may be winning the "Non iPad" race, but they have google, nvidia, Asus, Samsung, HTC... everyone... have some catching up to do to even get level.

But that's okay I'm sure they run benchmarks like a sunofabiatch.
Lenderz 9th March 2012, 20:12 Quote
[QUOTE=Nanu;2992055]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guinevere


You're not serious are you? do you really think that nvidia are playing catch up to arm?


You do realise that Tegra3 uses ARM Cortex-A9 CPUs right?

Just thought you should know.
Nanu 9th March 2012, 21:59 Quote
[QUOTE=Lenderz]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanu
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guinevere


You're not serious are you? do you really think that nvidia are playing catch up to arm?


You do realise that Tegra3 uses ARM Cortex-A9 CPUs right?

Just thought you should know.

lol, i did't know that no, it's an interesting piece of information.

I just found if funny that apple fan boys even exist on bit-tech, singing the 'apple is the best thing in the world ever' songs loud and clear, whilst buying any bull apple sells them (buy which i'm referring to there crazy marketing claims not their over-priced comments!)
Nanu 9th March 2012, 22:00 Quote
*half asleep, over-priced products, not comments. I'm not sure comments have [rices, but if they did, apple's would be over priced. :P
Sloth 9th March 2012, 22:25 Quote
Cat fight!

Nvidia are masters of throwing about claims and graphs without supplying all of the details of how they reached their conclusions. I'm sure their PR team will figure out how to smooth things over.
VipersGratitude 10th March 2012, 00:31 Quote
Apple are soon going to be cut down with antitrust law suits as soon as people realize what's going on...

Limit Pricing- Competitors simply can't compete because Apples purchasing power have afforded them such a stranglehold over the supply chain. Apple hog all the stock, while driving their own costs down through bulk-buying, while driving their competitors costs up and limiting their resources.

Tying - Apple's business model encourages tying. Not so much directly anymore as in the class action suit regarding the original iPhone and AT&T, but indirectly (and a lot more difficult to pin down). If you want the best value from your Apple products then you have to buy other Apple products, or use their services.

Price Maintenance - I'd also argue for RPM. With Apple not only driving their costs down through sheer purchasing power, but also owning their primary distribution network (web/retail) it forces re-sellers to match Apples price floor at awful margins. No, there isn't collusion - because there doesn't need to be! Apple have too much control over the entire supply and distribution chains.
alf- 10th March 2012, 00:56 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanu

lol, i did't know that no, it's an interesting piece of information.

I just found if funny that apple fan boys even exist on bit-tech, singing the 'apple is the best thing in the world ever' songs loud and clear, whilst buying any bull apple sells them (buy which i'm referring to there crazy marketing claims not their over-priced comments!)

gah, people like you are worse then actual apple fanboys.
XXAOSICXX 10th March 2012, 09:11 Quote
Apple schmapple. It's all marketing hype...as always.

I still haven't seen the magical and revolutionary effects of the first iPad.....I see the idiots who wasted their money on one walking around the office on them using nothing more than a notepad-style editor and friggin' itunes. Every time I'm in a meeting and someone brings their iPad along - and I do mean EVERY time - you ask them for some key bit of information, they dick around with their iPad for a minute, mumble something about not syncing properly, and then run back to their desk, grab their laptop, and work from that.

All aboard the fail-train! Woop woop!
LordPyrinc 10th March 2012, 11:28 Quote
I call bulls**t on Apple.

4 times faster? Really? That's a tall tale to prove. I can also make a powerpoint slide showing how my third leg is 4 times as long as Ron Jeremy's.
TheDarkSide 10th March 2012, 12:04 Quote
someone posted the link to the anandtech article for an early comparison of the apple A5X and Tegra 3, and i recommend it to anyone interested in the gpu comparison.

There is no question that the A5X gpu IS more powerful than the one in Tegra 3, the question is how much exactly. It'll probably be something like 30 to 60 percent in real world tests as opposed to 2X or more you'd get in synthetic benchmarks.
Nexxo 10th March 2012, 12:59 Quote
[QUOTE=Nanu;2992255]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lenderz


lol, i did't know that no, it's an interesting piece of information.

I just found if funny that apple fan boys even exist on bit-tech, singing the 'apple is the best thing in the world ever' songs loud and clear, whilst buying any bull apple sells them

This coming from a guy who doesn't even know that Tegra3 is based on ARM. Apple hatebois are just the flipside of Apple fanbois.

As for benchmarks:

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e314/Nexxo00/cheesecake-o-meter.gif

We all know the new iPad is going to run like greased slick, because that is what Apple does. And that's all most people care about.
adidan 10th March 2012, 13:21 Quote
I'm 4x smarter than anyone on here.

You want proof? That means you must hate me because I'm smarter than you so none of you get proof.
Guinevere 10th March 2012, 20:47 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDarkSide
There is no question that the A5X gpu IS more powerful than the one in Tegra 3, the question is how much exactly. It'll probably be something like 30 to 60 percent in real world tests as opposed to 2X or more you'd get in synthetic benchmarks.

Like everyone else you're making assumptions. The Anandtech article is all "Assuming this..." and "Assuming that..." as nobody has any details on exactly what GPU is in the damn thing, or what clock speed it or the CPU is running at.

The ONLY people who do know have come up with a x4 figure, which of course is going to be an optimistic figure based on a specific set of conditions.

Maybe it's x4 the performance at retina resolution when running along-side a dual core A9? Maybe at lower, say 720p res it's just purely "Faster" rather than "A lot faster". I'm sure at some tasks Tegra will kick butt, especially in CPU bound tasks where quad core will have an advantage... if the tests are optimised that way.

Who really cares? Of course Apple will put out good figures to go with their new tablet. Like duh!

Fact: If you want a fast smooth reliable tablet running a nice OS then buy an iPad... or a decent ICS equivalent. You have real choice people.

A CHOICE.

You're not going to spot the difference playing Angry Birds or Fruit Ninja that's for sure and even in a AAA 3D title it should look damn fine on both. We ain't ever had it this good!

Now shut the hell up and quit ya bitchin'

;)
edzieba 10th March 2012, 23:43 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guinevere
Like everyone else you're making assumptions. The Anandtech article is all "Assuming this..." and "Assuming that..." as nobody has any details on exactly what GPU is in the damn thing, or what clock speed it or the CPU is running at.
What we know:
On the CPU side of things, the A5x has two Arm Cortex A9 cores, and the Tegra 3 has 4 Arm Cortex A9 cores. Both can be clocked up and down depending on the thermal sinking available, so there's no real way to compare clock speeds.
On the GPU side, the A5 (non x, in the ipad2 and iphone 4S) contains a PowerVR SGX543MP2. This is a more grunty chip than the Kal-El Geforce used in the Tegra 3. Even if the A5x makes no changes to the GPU, it will still crunch more numbers than the Tegra 3.

What makes things fuzzier is the resolution jump: previously, the Tegra 3 had to push 1024000 pixels to the A5 786432 (i.e. 30% more). The A5x has to handle 4x the pixels than the A5 (3145728), but to make things fair the Tegra 3 that will almost certainly be in the Transformer Infinity will also be handling just over double the pixels it was (2304000), meaning the tables have turned and the pixel-pushing workload for the A5x will be 30% more than the Tegra 3. Now, graphics performance may not scale directly with the number of pixels rendered (vertex shader limited? Who knows, I'm not that deep into the nitty-gritty of GPU pipelines), but the A5x will by default contain a more powerful GPU than the Tegra 3. It may even be more powerful at the same resolution, but when the increase in screen real-estate is taken into account, the actual performance difference in comparative FPS may not be so great, certainly not 4x.

Remember also, the the GPU has little to do with non-gaming tasks as long as it's set up to handle high resolutions. Even current chips should be able to handle anything 2D at 2048x1536 (or 1920x1200) without breaking a sweat. Unless you intend to play a lot of graphically intensive games, the GPU powering your fondleslab of choice is a non-issue.
Guinevere 11th March 2012, 00:18 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by edzieba
It may even be more powerful at the same resolution, but when the increase in screen real-estate is taken into account, the actual performance difference in comparative FPS may not be so great, certainly not 4x.

You followed a "May even be more powerful" with a "May not be so great" and finished off with a "Certainly not 4x".

Now it's you who's making assumptions. Not that I say you're wrong, but I don't have my new iPad yet (But it has been shipped) and neither does anyone else who's arguing about this. And even when I do get it I won't be running benchmarks on the friggin' thing!

You don't know anything about Apple's benchmark conditions or how efficient the GPU is at the res Apple test at and the clock speed they can get away with. I don't know either, which is why I wouldn't say "Certainly" about anything.

The most knowledgeable people who do know are Apple and they'll only give us the "best case" figures and never ever EVER the worst case.

They say it's x4 faster? At what? Drawing single pixels? Scrolling web pages? Blank texture fills? Shaders? Some magic secret combination of all or some of them?

It won't average out to x4 will it! If the "average" improvement was x4 and some tasks were only x1.5 and others were x8, they'd use that x8. The x4 will be under a narrow range of conditions... but maybe that's the narrow range of conditions they'll want everyone to use?

I "certainly" don't have the answer ;)
fluxtatic 11th March 2012, 06:29 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordPyrinc
I call bulls**t on Apple.

4 times faster? Really? That's a tall tale to prove. I can also make a powerpoint slide showing how my third leg is 4 times as long as Ron Jeremy's.

For real? What are you doing tonight, big boy?
Snips 11th March 2012, 09:43 Quote
The problem with the "new" iPad is would you really buy a new one if you already owned an iPad or iPad2?

Personally, I'll sit on my hands until Win8 delivers the iPads true challenger.
IamJudd 11th March 2012, 10:47 Quote
I've never had a problem with Apple. I own a nice Macbook Pro (2008) and had a Mac Mini until recently. The iPhone's home button went up the wall so took that to CPW and bought a Windows Phone.

Ironically, on the 20th February, I lost my mac.com email address for over two weeks and over five engineers could not explain what happened or how I got it back. The customer relations has always been good with any issue I've had apart from this particular one and, do you know what? They gave me a nice discount on the new iPad 3 as compensation.

If the Windows tablet was here, I may have chosen that instead but, like everything, App support is what drives the tablet sales and if the Microsoft Marketplace charging plus 5x the price for the same iOS game is anything to go by just because it has XBox Live support, you can colour me not impressed. And the devices aren't released yet.

I'm not a fanboy - I appreciate the fact that there are some things available on iOS devices that are awesome (Yamaha's Tenori-On as an example). I also know that I wouldn't play WoW or Skyrim on anything other than a Windows machine. iMacs are just a nice extravagance in my book and the more powerful the Pad, the more onus is to use that than turn on the Macbook.

And in answer to the post above, if I had an iPad, I would be seriously considering an upgrade. If I had an iPad 2, however, I would be waiting for the next iteration of Pad or Wintablet.
Nexxo 11th March 2012, 11:05 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snips
The problem with the "new" iPad is would you really buy a new one if you already owned an iPad or iPad2?

Personally, I'll sit on my hands until Win8 delivers the iPads true challenger.

No, but then again, I would already own an iPad. :D

I'm keeping my fingers crossed. I really hope the Win8 tablet can deliver the goods. Smoothness looks good so far; now the battery life.
_crazy_crazy_ 11th March 2012, 15:17 Quote
i allready traded the awful ipad for a asus transformer and i have to tell you who cares about a product that will be extremely over rated and over priced ,the apple software is an abomination i still can't understand why would anyone buy it its totally locked up .. i understood the appeal of apple a few years back when they had their ow cpu and suff but nowadays its just a company that lives from marketing ... i got to tell you the transformer is considerably faster that an ipad 1 trust me i was almost ready to throw it against a wall its just awful
Nexxo 11th March 2012, 15:59 Quote
1. Apple has never had their "own" CPU. First it used the Motorola, then Intel and for its mobile devices a customised ARM. Ironically the latter is more Apple's own design than anything else it has used in the past.

2. Android is becoming a closed garden as much as Apple's iOS, especially after some embarrasing malware incidents. You cannot root the Asus Transformer without losing warranty and tech support, by the way. Bit like Apple and jailbreaking.

3. As for overpriced: nobody has been able to release a comparable product for a cheaper price.
thom804 11th March 2012, 20:23 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexxo


3. As for overpriced: nobody has been able to release a comparable product for a cheaper price.

Except for
A) Samsung 10.1 tab being £100 cheaper than an ipad 2 with the same functionality and better cache managment, not to mention a more powerful cpu/gpu combination.
B) Samsung Galaxy Nexus being a FAR cheaper phone to buy outright or on contract than the 4S.

I could go on but you saying apple aren't overpriced is frankly laughable.
Nexxo 11th March 2012, 20:55 Quote
Really? Would you like to give me some links? :)
alf- 11th March 2012, 21:22 Quote
"better cache management"

oh boy!!
take my money now Samsung!!!
cause better cache management is something i really look for in a tablet!


seriously though, do you actually think your average consumer knows what cache management even means, let alone care about it?

as for the rest of your post,

A) the Samsung tab launched at the SAME price as the ipad 2, its only down in price now because it couldn't compete at the same price point

B) seriously, look at some benchmarks
uz1_l0v3r 11th March 2012, 22:21 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by B1GBUD
I had an Asus Eee-pad and thought it was clunky as hell, compared to a 1st Gen iPad.

I'd like to see how Apple came up with their figures though, not that it will stop me getting an iPad 3.

The eeePad prime is wafer thin.
Nexxo 11th March 2012, 22:24 Quote
I know. I've seen one. You kind of look at it edge on, then look at the screen, then look at it edge on, then look at the screen... And all the while you think: how did they do that?!? It's thin. Like, anorexic. :)
hexx 12th March 2012, 13:19 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by XXAOSICXX
Apple schmapple. It's all marketing hype...as always.

I still haven't seen the magical and revolutionary effects of the first iPad.....I see the idiots who wasted their money on one walking around the office on them using nothing more than a notepad-style editor and friggin' itunes. Every time I'm in a meeting and someone brings their iPad along - and I do mean EVERY time - you ask them for some key bit of information, they dick around with their iPad for a minute, mumble something about not syncing properly, and then run back to their desk, grab their laptop, and work from that.

All aboard the fail-train! Woop woop!

yet you still don't own one and from your comment I don't believe you've used one. we get it, it's not for you. if I don't need to to work on photographs (LR) iPad would be all I need.

"mumble something about not syncing properly" - iCloud - ever heard of it? or syncing with what???
Nexxo 12th March 2012, 13:55 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by XXAOSICXX
Apple schmapple. It's all marketing hype...as always...

All aboard the fail-train! Woop woop!

Yeah, Apple is failing so badly that it's richer than Switzerland. :D

Must be all those sheep who unquestioningly don't follow the true religion follow the latest fashion in gadgetry. Couldn't be that the device actually meets most people's needs/wants spot on. That's crazy talk. Most people would much rather have a clunky PC with an OS that needs defragmenting, updating, anti-virus and malware scanning, trouble shooting, restoring and reinstalling every so often. A device that just does basic tasks transparently and reliably? Nope, not seeing the appeal. :p
hexx 12th March 2012, 16:03 Quote
@ Nexxo - there's no point, haters will always blindly hate and will always have their baseless statements.
liratheal 12th March 2012, 16:49 Quote
Who cares, really.

Chances are it is faster, at specific things.

The Apple dedicated, and ill educated, will take it as fact that it's faster in "every situation", and then the opposition to Apple will argue with them until they both die out, and the rest of us will just carry on not caring.
Roskoken 13th March 2012, 00:21 Quote
I wonder how many Chinamen are going to kill themselves making this one version.
Lenderz 13th March 2012, 08:39 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roskoken
I wonder how many Chinamen are going to kill themselves making this one version.

Probably less per capita than any large city in the west. The actual figures are very low (and even were when the news started coming out) as a % of population at the factory Shenzhen its lower than most western societys.

Just sayin'.
hexx 13th March 2012, 10:42 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by liratheal
Who cares, really.

Chances are it is faster, at specific things.

The Apple dedicated, and ill educated, will take it as fact that it's faster in "every situation", and then the opposition to Apple will argue with them until they both die out, and the rest of us will just carry on not caring.

LOL!!!!!!!! good one ;)
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