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Steam for Linux game list leaks out early

Steam for Linux game list leaks out early

Steam for Linux is set to get a raft of classic gaming titles at launch, if new entries on Valve's CDR database are anything to go by.

Entries in Valve's Content Description Record database for Steam have appeared listing native Linux support for a raft of games, giving those looking forward to the digital distribution system's appearance on the open source OS a hint of things to come.

Held by Valve itself, the Content Description Record (CDR) database is used to distribute information regarding available games to the Steam client software. Access, however, is open, which has led to the development of CDR parsers capable of providing data above and beyond that revealed by the Steam client itself. With games appearing in the CDR database ahead of their reveal in the Steam client, this includes pre-release information - and, in this case, support for an as-yet unreleased Linux Steam client.

According to a community list of Steam games with native Linux versions those taking part in the Linux Steam Beta can expect to play a selection of somewhat outdated games at launch comprising Amnesia: The Dark Descent, Crusader Kings 2, Cubemen, Dynamite Jack, Eversion, Galcon Fusion, Serious Sam 3: BFE, Solar 2, SpaceChem, Steel Storm: Burning Retribution, Superbrothers: Sword and Sworcery EP, Trine 2, Waveform and World of Goo.

Of those games, native Linux versions have been available for some time making them obvious choices for Valve to test out its native Linux Steam client while it works on improving the performance of its own first-party titles on the operating system. While a good selection of games, the list is but a small percentage of the overall number of games already listed on Steam which have a Linux port available - suggesting that the quantity could grow rapidly at launch.

With Valve boss Gabe Newell personally overseeing the Steam for Linux client development, and vocal in his dislike for Microsoft's upcoming Windows 8 OS, the Steam Linux client looks on set for a high-profile launch - just nine years after the service appeared on Windows.

46 Comments

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GuilleAcoustic 9th October 2012, 10:24 Quote
Quote:
According to a community list of Steamgames with native Linux versions those taking part in the Linux Steam Beta can expect to play a selection of somewhat outdated games

I'm pretty shocked by this sentence. A nice and fun game will remain nice and fun. GFX can aged, but if the gameplay is nice, it will remain nice !

I started playing on Atari 2600 and Intellivision ... GFX are nothing compared to the gameplay. Gameplay + great OST = win. GFX will always age, contrary to gameplay and music. That's my humble opinion ....
Gareth Halfacree 9th October 2012, 10:38 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuilleAcoustic
I'm pretty shocked by this sentence. A nice and fun game will remain nice and fun. GFX can aged, but if the gameplay is nice, it will remain nice !
Not disagreeing there - I regularly play on my ZX81, after all - but you've got to admit that the list of games is pretty obvious in its lack of anything released recently. Not surprising, really, but if I didn't mention it you can be damn sure the anti-Linux types (you know who you are) would.
GuilleAcoustic 9th October 2012, 10:50 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gareth Halfacree
Not disagreeing there - I regularly play on my ZX81, after all - but you've got to admit that the list of games is pretty obvious in its lack of anything released recently. Not surprising, really, but if I didn't mention it you can be damn sure the anti-Linux types (you know who you are) would.

xD ..... do not start a flame war :D. Most of my Steam games are native Linux. I have great hope to see at least the HL series and Alien Swarm ported to Linux. When it's done, I unsintall Windows
GeorgeStorm 9th October 2012, 11:09 Quote
Looking forward to seeing how the steam client works out, especially when they start releasing some of their own (tf2) :D
Parge 9th October 2012, 12:54 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuilleAcoustic
Quote:
According to a community list of Steamgames with native Linux versions those taking part in the Linux Steam Beta can expect to play a selection of somewhat outdated games

I'm pretty shocked by this sentence. A nice and fun game will remain nice and fun. GFX can aged, but if the gameplay is nice, it will remain nice !

I started playing on Atari 2600 and Intellivision ... GFX are nothing compared to the gameplay. Gameplay + great OST = win. GFX will always age, contrary to gameplay and music. That's my humble opinion ....

Nah, a great game has a combination of great graphics and great gameplay. Also, gameplay ages just as graphics and sound. What was once revolutionary, becomes standard.

On topic: Pretty poor selection of games - I don't think anyone will be migrating away from windows anytime soon.
will_123 9th October 2012, 13:19 Quote
Quote:
On topic: Pretty poor selection of games - I don't think anyone will be migrating away from windows anytime soon.

Very true. But everything has to start somewhere. Once the source engine and its games get over I might get a little more excited. But like its said a lot of these games are native already. Good to see its not far off being released though!
Paradigm Shifter 9th October 2012, 14:01 Quote
I've had the devil's own job getting proprietary drivers working properly on any of my linux installs recently. nVidia, AMD, it doesn't matter - obey the naggy Ubuntu messages and let them download and install it, only to have it say, "Failed", or worse (in the case of the nVidia driver) install, restart, and have X fail to start in rather spectacular fashion. Manual installs 'work' (for a given value of work) but on my 6970 box, it resulted in no cursor, no matter what I did, until removing it and going back to the default driver.

To be frank, proprietary GPU drivers in linux - any linux - tends to remind me of Arch when an update manages to break something in style... ie: an absolute bloody nightmare.

I really want to try Steam on linux, but I'm not looking forward to all the headaches - even games that natively support linux have some interesting quirks; Shatter just displays all textures as shaded black boxes for me in linux; World of Goo will run without issues if I start it manually from the terminal, but loads and crashes if I use the GUI; SPAZ runs, but at about 2fps; Uplink works OK, but again needs to be started from the terminal...

I'm far from a linux expert, but I can mostly hold my own. It's just the raft of issues that gaming seems to come with that I struggle with.
GuilleAcoustic 9th October 2012, 14:27 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Parge
Nah, a great game has a combination of great graphics and great gameplay. Also, gameplay ages just as graphics and sound. What was once revolutionary, becomes standard.

On topic: Pretty poor selection of games - I don't think anyone will be migrating away from windows anytime soon.

Terraria sold millions of copies, Minecraft too, etc etc etc etc etc .... do you really thing graphics is that important ?

Gameplay can make a game popular, even with very simple GFX. Awesome GFX without a good gameplay is useless. Now, most gamers only cares about GFX ....

Nice graphics is an addition, but won't make a game fun or entertianing. It's just a "plus". Don't misunderstand me, I like good graphics ... but I can live without them and I don't care turning a few option down to make it "playable". As long as the gameplay is rich, fun or original.

I stopped playing FPS because it's mostly the same gameplay, over and over, with only better GFX. And it's also why I almost buy none of the "big" games. It just feels like studio are only after money, serving the same thing over and over. All the budget going into GFX, instead of game design (as level design, game mechanics, etc).

EDIT : It's far easier to make a great looking game and takes less time. It also sells more, since people, nowaday, care more about appearance than everything. Creating an original game is far more difficult and more risquee : it sells .... or not ! But a 250th clone of COD will sell millions of copie without any effort.
will_123 9th October 2012, 14:55 Quote
Quote:
tends to remind me of Arch when an update manages to break something in style... ie: an absolute bloody nightmare

Without reading every package thats getting updated. Im scared ever to update in Arch! Its like rolling a dice sometimes!
wafflesomd 9th October 2012, 14:58 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paradigm Shifter


I'm far from a linux expert, but I can mostly hold my own. It's just the raft of issues that gaming seems to come with that I struggle with.

That's how it is with most users.

I occasionally try a few linux distros just see how things are moving a long, and I'm just reminded as to why I don't use linux.

"Ok cool, time to install video drivers, xorg server crash? WTF is that?"

After awhile I just get tired of babysitting the OS and go back to windows.
GuilleAcoustic 9th October 2012, 15:00 Quote
The only Linux native game I had hard time to install was Darwinia. The Linux installer was made for 32 bits OS and I had 64 bits Linux. Except that, never a single issue with GPU drivers, maybe I'm lucky ^^
ZeDestructor 9th October 2012, 15:56 Quote
Quote:
Steam Beta can expect to play a selection of somewhat outdated games at launch...

FTL is there (I may have had something to do with that thanks to my impatience ¬_¬), so the outdated part is quite wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paradigm Shifter
I've had the devil's own job getting proprietary drivers working properly on any of my linux installs recently. nVidia, AMD, it doesn't matter - obey the naggy Ubuntu messages and let them download and install it, only to have it say, "Failed", or worse (in the case of the nVidia driver) install, restart, and have X fail to start in rather spectacular fashion. Manual installs 'work' (for a given value of work) but on my 6970 box, it resulted in no cursor, no matter what I did, until removing it and going back to the default driver.

To be frank, proprietary GPU drivers in linux - any linux - tends to remind me of Arch when an update manages to break something in style... ie: an absolute bloody nightmare.

I really want to try Steam on linux, but I'm not looking forward to all the headaches - even games that natively support linux have some interesting quirks; Shatter just displays all textures as shaded black boxes for me in linux; World of Goo will run without issues if I start it manually from the terminal, but loads and crashes if I use the GUI; SPAZ runs, but at about 2fps; Uplink works OK, but again needs to be started from the terminal...

I'm far from a linux expert, but I can mostly hold my own. It's just the raft of issues that gaming seems to come with that I struggle with.

I installed Nvidia drivers today on my ArchLinux laptop. One reboot later and everything was running flawlessly. No X or any other breakage to speak up, power management up and running etc etc. For that matter, this particular Dell Latitude E6400 is pretty much all Intel minus the GPU, so its very, VERY hard to break the base system since pretty much everything runs flawlessly. Hell, its easier than installing anything opensource on OSX or Windows.

Installing AMD drivers on the other hand I haven't attempted since last year and I have no intention of trying again any time soon: its just broken too often to be worth the time and effort.

As for Arch updates, well, From hard-earned experience: read the news BEFORE you update and go over your .pacsave files after updating. Doing these two will pretty much stop any breakage. from happening.

Disclaimer: I hate OSX (because the UI is terrible and the rest is getting locked down much like iOS) but I like Windows only slightly less than Linux. I'm just happier in Linux. MSOffice though is a fantastic piece of software as far as I'm concerned, much to the chagrin of my Linux-loving, Windows-hating friends.
Paradigm Shifter 9th October 2012, 16:07 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by will_123
Without reading every package thats getting updated. Im scared ever to update in Arch! Its like rolling a dice sometimes!
Yeah. I tend to watch the Arch Linux site and forums like a hawk, and when I've not seen any posts about 'so-and-so breaks such-and-such when updated' for a couple of days, take the risk.

It's a real shame - I like Arch... a lot... but I would never be able to risk it on any machine that was mission critical. CentOS, Debian Stable or Ubuntu Server are reserved for production systems I need to know will work, even after an update. And of course, those systems don't have exotic GPU hardware - or, usually, exotic hardware at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wafflesomd
That's how it is with most users.

I occasionally try a few linux distros just see how things are moving a long, and I'm just reminded as to why I don't use linux.

"Ok cool, time to install video drivers, xorg server crash? WTF is that?"

After awhile I just get tired of babysitting the OS and go back to windows.
Wayland, the 'replacement' for Xorg looks promising, but uptake of it just isn't great enough. There aren't enough people hammering it daily to test it properly and distros aren't trying it out. That may change with Ubuntu 12.10, but again I can't risk it on a production system.

I spend a lot of time using linux at work, in situations where Windows would be a bad thing - so I appreciate it and use it a lot... but for gaming? I'd like to, but experience makes me tend toward sceptical. As troublesome as Windows can be, gaming on linux seems to need the stars to align, the phase of the moon to be just right and ritual sacrifice of a Windows disc before it works without issues.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuilleAcoustic
The only Linux native game I had hard time to install was Darwinia. The Linux installer was made for 32 bits OS and I had 64 bits Linux. Except that, never a single issue with GPU drivers, maybe I'm lucky ^^
Bizarrely, Darwinia is about the only game I've installed that has behaved so far. And that was a 32-bit install on a 64-bit system. Just needed the right dependencies and it was happy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeDestructor
I installed Nvidia drivers today on my ArchLinux laptop. One reboot later and everything was running flawlessly. No X or any other breakage to speak up, power management up and running etc etc. For that matter, this particular Dell Latitude E6400 is pretty much all Intel minus the GPU, so its very, VERY hard to break the base system since pretty much everything runs flawlessly. Hell, its easier than installing anything opensource on OSX or Windows.

Installing AMD drivers on the other hand I haven't attempted since last year and I have no intention of trying again any time soon: its just broken too often to be worth the time and effort.

As for Arch updates, well, From hard-earned experience: read the news BEFORE you update and go over your .pacsave files after updating. Doing these two will pretty much stop any breakage. from happening.

Disclaimer: I hate OSX (because the UI is terrible and the rest is getting locked down much like iOS) but I like Windows only slightly less than Linux. I'm just happier in Linux. MSOffice though is a fantastic piece of software as far as I'm concerned, much to the chagrin of my Linux-loving, Windows-hating friends.
Perhaps my issues are exotic hardware, then. Quite likely, in fact.

I agree with you on Microsoft Office - it's the one Windows program that stops me from going linux-only on work systems.
GuilleAcoustic 9th October 2012, 16:14 Quote
I'll give Darwinia a new try, I was a Linux beginer when I bought it. Agreed with Office. The compatibility layer on LibreOffice is usefull but not flawless. Document are not displayed the way they are displayed with MSOffice.

It's the only non Linux native software that I use. Even Maya is Linux native, and so easy to install.
ZeDestructor 9th October 2012, 16:32 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paradigm Shifter
Yeah. I tend to watch the Arch Linux site and forums like a hawk, and when I've not seen any posts about 'so-and-so breaks such-and-such when updated' for a couple of days, take the risk.

I upgrade daily for maximum freshness, then bitch when it does break. The IRC channel is surprisingly helpful.

EDIT: haven't had a single break in ages though.... Well, none that were not a direct results of me badly configuring something at some point at any rate...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paradigm Shifter
It's a real shame - I like Arch... a lot... but I would never be able to risk it on any machine that was mission critical. CentOS, Debian Stable or Ubuntu Server are reserved for production systems I need to know will work, even after an update. And of course, those systems don't have exotic GPU hardware - or, usually, exotic hardware at all.

That's why I run Debian on my remote box. Arch all the way at home. May try CentOS to enjoy the RedHat awesomeness sometime...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paradigm Shifter
Wayland, the 'replacement' for Xorg looks promising, but uptake of it just isn't great enough. There aren't enough people hammering it daily to test it properly and distros aren't trying it out. That may change with Ubuntu 12.10, but again I can't risk it on a production system.

Wayland can't be tested because of nothing supporting it. What you need in an initial stage is a DE of some sort to start using it so people can start breaking everything. This is being worked on by mad nutters everywhere as we speak, and the slowness of development is why Ubuntu 12.04 didn't ship with Wayland. I very much doubt Wayland being ready in time for 12.10. Maybe 13.04...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paradigm Shifter
I spend a lot of time using linux at work, in situations where Windows would be a bad thing - so I appreciate it and use it a lot... but for gaming? I'd like to, but experience makes me tend toward sceptical. As troublesome as Windows can be, gaming on linux seems to need the stars to align, the phase of the moon to be just right and ritual sacrifice of a Windows disc before it works without issues.

Linux just needs a bit of help from hardware vendors (*ahem* AMD *ahem*)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paradigm Shifter
Perhaps my issues are exotic hardware, then. Quite likely, in fact.

Definitely.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paradigm Shifter
I agree with you on Microsoft Office - it's the one Windows program that stops me from going linux-only on work systems.

FINALLY! SOMEONE WHO AGREES WITH ME ON THIS!!!
Omnituens 9th October 2012, 16:56 Quote
F*CK YEAH SPACECHEM!

FOR SCIENCE!
PCBuilderSven 9th October 2012, 17:20 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paradigm Shifter
I've had the devil's own job getting proprietary drivers working properly on any of my linux installs recently. nVidia, AMD, it doesn't matter - obey the naggy Ubuntu messages and let them download and install it, only to have it say, "Failed", or worse (in the case of the nVidia driver) install, restart, and have X fail to start in rather spectacular fashion. Manual installs 'work' (for a given value of work) but on my 6970 box, it resulted in no cursor, no matter what I did, until removing it and going back to the default driver.

To be frank, proprietary GPU drivers in linux - any linux - tends to remind me of Arch when an update manages to break something in style... ie: an absolute bloody nightmare.

I've never had any problems with graphics drivers for AMD cards on openSuse or Ubuntu.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeDestructor
MSOffice though is a fantastic piece of software as far as I'm concerned

You can still run Office in WINE though, works perfectly (or at least, did for me running Office 2007 on openSuse).
Paradigm Shifter 9th October 2012, 17:57 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeDestructor
I upgrade daily for maximum freshness, then bitch when it does break. The IRC channel is surprisingly helpful.

EDIT: haven't had a single break in ages though.... Well, none that were not a direct results of me badly configuring something at some point at any rate...
I had a couple of bad updates on Arch in a row that cost me a number of hours to fix, and at the time I didn't have time, so I gave up and went back to Debian for the time being. ;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeDestructor
That's why I run Debian on my remote box. Arch all the way at home. May try CentOS to enjoy the RedHat awesomeness sometime...
To be honest, I'm not a huge fan of CentOS. I only use it because some of the software I use at work (to control expensive hardware) is only supported by the company when run on CentOS or RedHat. I don't really like RPM; I prefer APT and pacman. :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeDestructor
Wayland can't be tested because of nothing supporting it. What you need in an initial stage is a DE of some sort to start using it so people can start breaking everything. This is being worked on by mad nutters everywhere as we speak, and the slowness of development is why Ubuntu 12.04 didn't ship with Wayland. I very much doubt Wayland being ready in time for 12.10. Maybe 13.04...
I read somewhere that they were testing Wayland with Ubuntu 12.10.

But I just went looking and it seems like they changed their minds.

I know it's a vicious circle - it's testing, so no one uses it... but without people using it, it can't leave testing... ;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeDestructor
Linux just needs a bit of help from hardware vendors (*ahem* AMD *ahem*)
Agreed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeDestructor
Definitely.
Yeah, exotic hardware is usually the cause. Pity that it's usually in gaming rigs. ;) As I said, less modern stuff (that is still fairly new - Core 2 Duo/Quad) behaves perfectly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeDestructor
FINALLY! SOMEONE WHO AGREES WITH ME ON THIS!!!
One of my colleagues will agree too. ;) Office is the 'killer' application that linux needs. Microsoft make Office Mac; but I doubt they'll ever do the same for linux. More's the pity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCBuilderSven
I've never had any problems with graphics drivers for AMD cards on openSuse or Ubuntu.
A few others say the same. Many are in the same boat as myself, however. It's odd - I used to run a linux box with an ancient FireGL 8800 in it, and ATi's old FireGL linux drivers were very good. Their recent attempts, though, have been less than stellar.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCBuilderSven
You can still run Office in WINE though, works perfectly (or at least, did for me running Office 2007 on openSuse).
Office 2010 works far from perfectly, and that is the version of Office that where I work uses.
GuilleAcoustic 9th October 2012, 18:08 Quote
The AMD firepro drivers are nice on Linux. Look at phoronix test of the Vx900 series (V4900 / 5900 / 7900).

No issue with Q6600 + HD5870 here, but it's not really the latest hardware available (while still being capable).
ZeDestructor 9th October 2012, 18:32 Quote
[QUOTE=Paradigm Shifter;3185237]I had a couple of bad updates on Arch in a row that cost me a number of hours to fix, and at the time I didn't have time, so I gave up and went back to Debian for the time being. ;)

Ah, the 2am upgrade that goes badly...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paradigm Shifter
To be honest, I'm not a huge fan of CentOS. I only use it because some of the software I use at work (to control expensive hardware) is only supported by the company when run on CentOS or RedHat. I don't really like RPM; I prefer APT and pacman. :)

I have a soft spot for RPM since its the first packaging format I interacted with since openSuSE was the first distro I tried. Didn't like Ubuntu even then.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paradigm Shifter
I read somewhere that they were testing Wayland with Ubuntu 12.10.

But I just went looking and it seems like they changed their minds.

I know it's a vicious circle - it's testing, so no one uses it... but without people using it, it can't leave testing... ;)

SoonTM KDE so far has made quite a bit of progress. No idea how Unity, GNOME and all the myriad other DEs are going.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paradigm Shifter
Yeah, exotic hardware is usually the cause. Pity that it's usually in gaming rigs. ;) As I said, less modern stuff (that is still fairly new - Core 2 Duo/Quad) behaves perfectly.

Anything intel runs pretty much flawlessly. Hell, even Optimus mostly works on my friend's Sandy Bridge Dell XPS with nV GPU... and its been running that way pretty much since release.

I also hear pretty good reports about the new GeForce cards on Linux in most places....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paradigm Shifter
One of my colleagues will agree too. ;) Office is the 'killer' application that linux needs. Microsoft make Office Mac; but I doubt they'll ever do the same for linux. More's the pity.

I hear good reports about virtualbox in seamless mode...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paradigm Shifter
A few others say the same. Many are in the same boat as myself, however. It's odd - I used to run a linux box with an ancient FireGL 8800 in it, and ATi's old FireGL linux drivers were very good. Their recent attempts, though, have been less than stellar.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuilleAcoustic
The AMD firepro drivers are nice on Linux. Look at phoronix test of the Vx900 series (V4900 / 5900 / 7900).

No issue with Q6600 + HD5870 here, but it's not really the latest hardware available (while still being capable).

FirePro drivers = Catalyst drivers = Radeon drivers. How nice unifying drivers are....

When it works, its great... and then you update X or the kernel or both and its all broken. Like I said, its broken too often for it to be worth it for me on a rolling release distro like ArchLinux. Especially when it breaking means all forms of GUI are broken.

And then I head out and use my Dell with an Nvidia GPU on which I installed proprietary drivers during a lecture because I was bored... Which works flawlessly...
LordPyrinc 9th October 2012, 21:21 Quote
With repect to Office, have you guys tried running OpenOffice on Linux? I've been pleasantly surprised with it in Windows. When I was working from home, I was able to modify documents and send them back to work where they were running a combination of Office 2007 and Office 2010. The only gotcha I saw was some weird behavior with rather large documents where the section numbering was already somewhat broken in the original Office doc.
Paradigm Shifter 9th October 2012, 23:16 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordPyrinc
With repect to Office, have you guys tried running OpenOffice on Linux? I've been pleasantly surprised with it in Windows. When I was working from home, I was able to modify documents and send them back to work where they were running a combination of Office 2007 and Office 2010. The only gotcha I saw was some weird behavior with rather large documents where the section numbering was already somewhat broken in the original Office doc.
Yes, I've tried Open/LibreOffice. It's OK for basic stuff, but as soon as you start getting complex, it just can't cope. Every Word document I've opened in it with complex formatting has been totally shot and unusable, from vast swathes of text hyperlinked wrongly, to tables and figures badly mangled or outright missing, to section breaks set wrong and a host of other issues.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeDestructor
Ah, the 2am upgrade that goes badly...
Nah, this was a 'middle of the afternoon, got some free time until evening and bored' upgrade. But it still went badly. ;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeDestructor
I have a soft spot for RPM since its the first packaging format I interacted with since openSuSE was the first distro I tried. Didn't like Ubuntu even then.
SuSE 8.2 was my first 'own' linux distro. Bought the boxed version which came with installations support and everything. Enjoyed it, but having spent time with APT and pacman, RPM just has too many quirks...
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeDestructor
Anything intel runs pretty much flawlessly. Hell, even Optimus mostly works on my friend's Sandy Bridge Dell XPS with nV GPU... and its been running that way pretty much since release.

I also hear pretty good reports about the new GeForce cards on Linux in most places....
My GTX680 experiences weren't postive the last time I tried, which was back in August.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeDestructor
I hear good reports about virtualbox in seamless mode...
Yeah, I've been experimenting with Windows+Office in a VM for tasks that need Office. :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeDestructor
FirePro drivers = Catalyst drivers = Radeon drivers. How nice unifying drivers are....

When it works, its great... and then you update X or the kernel or both and its all broken. Like I said, its broken too often for it to be worth it for me on a rolling release distro like ArchLinux. Especially when it breaking means all forms of GUI are broken.

And then I head out and use my Dell with an Nvidia GPU on which I installed proprietary drivers during a lecture because I was bored... Which works flawlessly...
My recent nVidia issue was with a GTX680. My GTX470's behave well in linux, they just gently toast themselves as it doesn't set a sensible fan profile. :( 70*C idle is crazy.
fooboi 10th October 2012, 04:21 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuilleAcoustic
The only Linux native game I had hard time to install was Darwinia. The Linux installer was made for 32 bits OS and I had 64 bits Linux. Except that, never a single issue with GPU drivers, maybe I'm lucky ^^

Running linux for years multiple distros, even distros that don't officially let you use propriety drivers and I've never had any driver issues. In fact I find it more difficult to go back to windows nowadays because of the multitude of issues I face there.
wafflesomd 10th October 2012, 06:14 Quote
I feel like I'm the only person who has never had any trouble with windows. What am I doing wrong?
liratheal 10th October 2012, 11:40 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by wafflesomd
I feel like I'm the only person who has never had any trouble with windows. What am I doing wrong?

I've never had trouble with Windows that hasn't been induced by a session of stupid ideas from the user (Be that me, or any one of the customers I deal with daily).

I've only ever had to reinstall 7 due to massive hardware changes, so.. Once on the desktop, and once on the laptop (Desktop changed everything, laptop went to SSD, and I was told cloning is not the best way to migrate to an SSD).

On topic, though.

I like the idea of Linux more than I actually like Linux. It sounds great on paper, but in reality I spend so much time scratching my head working out the reasons portion X has failed because something in dependency Z broke after an update that didn't touch Z, but one of Z's dependencies.. Eugh.

It's a big pass from me on that front.

Ubuntu, too, with its recent "new interface" that looks cack, I've not had the time or stomach to work out how to turn that stupid thing off and just get the two bars I like.

I suppose it doesn't help that I, occasionally, use "exotic" (Read: New) hardware that Linux drivers just don't exist/work for.
GuilleAcoustic 10th October 2012, 11:56 Quote
Well, to be honest the biggest driver issue I had was on Windows. Last one was 2 days ago at work, when the Intel (ok, they are noe good at gfx drivers) HD2000 drivers crashed in all their glory ... resulting in 640x480 / 4 bits color display with only the right screen working ...

Tried the right-clic --> properties on my desktop to accep display prop ... but it opened the windows on the left screen :(

Tried windows + E to open an explorer .... opened it on the left screen :(

Reboot ..... login screen opened on the left screen :(

had to safe reboot with network, dl intel drivers, uninstall intel driver, reinstall them, reboot .... right screen only :(

Made it a second time ... it worked, woohoo.

I know it's not user friendly, but when it's all broken in Linux, you still can switch to the console and try to fix things there. With windows, if the display is broken you're really screwed.
Adnoctum 10th October 2012, 14:24 Quote
Not to be someone who starts a bitch-fest, but I think people who use the "Windows just works better" argument to dismiss Linux, kind of misses the point. Windows benefits from a huge amount of time and money to develop and support the platform. Of course it is going to be easier for the user to support*. If Linux had that, it would work better as well. Probably work better than Windows does now.

I game on Windows, play on Linux, and work on both. More support for Linux, for whatever reason, will make Linux better for everyone. So I welcome Steam on Linux if it is going to push device makers to help with support, and inspire game developers and publishers to release more games for the platform.
Given I own some of these games on Steam already, I look forward to an extension of the SteamPlay program.

* Having said that, if Windows just works better, why do I spend so much time fixing things that bork themselves? Device problems, driver problems, program problems. I find that Linux is more difficult to set up right, but Windows is more difficult to maintain.
Adnoctum 10th October 2012, 14:36 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gareth Halfacree
...but you've got to admit that the list of games is pretty obvious in its lack of anything released recently. Not surprising, really, but if I didn't mention it you can be damn sure the anti-Linux types (you know who you are) would.
L4D2?
Gareth Halfacree 10th October 2012, 14:54 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeDestructor
FTL is there (I may have had something to do with that thanks to my impatience ¬_¬), so the outdated part is quite wrong.
Re-read the article: FTL is *not* in the list of launch titles. If you click through to the Wiki entry, you'll see a long list of games which are on Steam and also have a native Linux port; however, only those that say 'CDR' next to them have appeared in the CDR database and are likely to form the launch titles. No CDR next to FTL means no impending Steam release for the Linux port.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adnoctum
L4D2?
Also not in the list, as it doesn't yet have a native Linux port. Valve is working on one, true, but there's as yet no clue as to whether it will be ready for public release before the end of the Steam for Linux beta. Also, it was first released on November 17, 2009 - so even if it *were* in the list, I would stand by my statement that the game is outdated.

Tell you what, let's get all journalistic on it and do some in-depth research. Below I'll list all the titles that are in the CDR database as having Linux ports and their original release dates (with the earliest release date listed - so if it came out in the US first, that's the date I'll use.)

Amnesia: The Dark Descent - September 8, 2010
Crusader Kings 2 - February 14, 2012
Cubemen - March 16, 2012
Dynamite Jack - June 28, 2012 (iOS)
Eversion - November, 2008
Galcon Fusion - February 11, 2010
Serious Sam 3: BFE - October 18, 2011
Solar 2 - June 17, 2011
SpaceChem - January 1, 2011
Steel Storm: Burning Retribution - May 11, 2011
Superbrothers: Sword and Sworcery EP - April 16, 2012
Trine 2 - December 7, 2011
Waveform - March 20, 2012
World of Goo - October 13, 2008

Remember, those are the *only* titles (semi-)confirmed as being available for Linux through Steam. Analysing the results: we have five of the 14 titles having been released this year - better than I thought at first glance - with another five having been released last year. The remaining four date to 2008 through 2010.

So, given that the absolute newest game in the list was released four months ago - and it's an iOS port at that - and only four other games in the list come from this year, while 64-ish per cent of the list comes from last year or prior, I stand by my statement of "somewhat outdated."
GuilleAcoustic 10th October 2012, 15:03 Quote
SOrry Gareth, but I strongly disagree !!

A game is outdated when it's GFX are ageing (compared to games with similar gameplay) or when it's mechanics as been overused .... not because it's a year old.

It's not a burger, you do not have a play-limit-time-or-it-wont-be-fun date printed on the box ! They are not the damn latest released games, but it shouldn't mean you can't have fun playing them.

EDIT : That kind of news should be purely informational. The journalist shouldn't give any kind of judgment on the content. Give the list and let readers have their own. It's not a review ! That kind of news is the feeding the "Linux is crap troll". That's what I think.
Gareth Halfacree 10th October 2012, 15:06 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuilleAcoustic
A game is outadated when it's not fun anymore, not by it's release date. It's not a burger !
From an industry perspective, a game is outdated when it stops selling in volume at a price which results in a profit. For triple-A titles, that can be as soon as a couple of months after release. For indie titles - mostly thanks to the massively lower production costs - that stretches further, but a game from 2008 would be severely pushing the boundaries.

To put it another way: would you like to see reviews of games that have been out for a couple of years popping up on the site, at the expense of reviews of newly-released titles?
GuilleAcoustic 10th October 2012, 15:22 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gareth Halfacree
To put it another way: would you like to see reviews of games that have been out for a couple of years popping up on the site, at the expense of reviews of newly-released titles?

... sorry I do not get your point ? What does it have to do with "outdating" ? Ok they are not new, but does it mean that nobody's playing them ? TF2 is old but it still have a huge bunch of players playing it.

What the point with a game selling or not ? The best games I've ever played were not really "best sellers". They still are damn better than BF3 or PES or any of those damn flat gameplay games.

"A" game is not better than "B" game because it's selling 1000x more copies.

Edit : you and we are "users" not "sellers". Our judgement should only be : "Is the game (still) good or not ?".
Gareth Halfacree 10th October 2012, 15:29 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuilleAcoustic
... sorry I do not get your point ? What does it have to do with "outdating" ? Ok they are not new, but does it mean that nobody's playing them ? TF2 is old but it still have a huge bunch of players playing it.
Here's my problem with the list, and the reason I described the games therein as "somewhat outdated" - a statement, I remind you, I completely stand by - while pointing out the trouble with sales curves: the vast majority of people who would buy them through Steam for Linux have already bought them elsewhere.

Of the games, the only ones I'm really interested in are World of Goo, Superbrothers, Amnesia, SpaceChem, and possibly Serious Sam 3 (although I haven't played a Serious Sam since the original.) Trouble is, I already own World of Goo, Superbrothers, Amnesia, and SpaceChem - I bought all of them through Humble Bundles, and they came complete with native Linux versions.

As a game ages, the chances of a player owning it increase - and as the game drops in price, the chances get better and better. I was holding out for a Linux port of Torchlight for *ages,* but with no release in sight I caved and bought the Windows version to play under wine. If a native Linux Torchlight were to be released now, I probably wouldn't buy it - I've played the game now, I have no interest in paying again for the same game.

If Valve's chosen games were less outdated - there's that word again - the likelihood of people buying them through Steam for Linux would be much greater. Now, that *may* be less important if Valve gives access to the Linux ports free of charge to those who have already bought the game for Windows or OS X - but it's still a problem that would not exist (or would be lessened, at least) if the games on offer were newer.
GuilleAcoustic 10th October 2012, 15:43 Quote
I think their move is not done to sell Linux game, but more to test wether or not people are using it. By choosing older games, the chance that many users already have them is increased (especialy with humble indie bundle, since it's the major source of game for Linux users).

If many people are using Steam for Linux, then they can continue the porting and they will have a huge argument towards game developers.
Gareth Halfacree 10th October 2012, 15:51 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuilleAcoustic
I think their move is not done to sell Linux game, but more to test wether or not people are using it. By choosing older games, the chance that many users already have them is increased (especialy with humble indie bundle, since it's the major source of game for Linux users). If many people are using Steam for Linux, then they can continue the porting and they will have a huge argument towards game developers.
Yes and no. Yes, in that I agree that if you get access to the Linux port if you've already got the Windows or OS X version in your Steam library then it means gamers can immediately try out downloading, installing and playing a Linux game through Steam. No, in that at the end of the day even Gabe Newell needs to justify himself - and it's a hell of a lot easier to say "Project X gave us $Y revenue and is therefore successful" than it is to say "Project X gave us Z beta-testers who spent no money and is therefore successful, honest."

If they'd launched with some new games - like FTL - they'd have had a good chance of having Linux gamers stick their hands in their pockets. That's not only important for proving the concept internally, but also for dispelling the still-extant myth that Linux users are 'freetards' who would never pay for commercial software (a common interpretation of 'free software' from those who should know better.) The Humble Bundle has proved that Linux users will gladly pay - and pay well above the average of Windows and OS X users, for that matter - for software, but it would strengthen Valve's argument to be able to - as you suggest - turn to developers and say "companies participating in the Steam for Linux launch have raked in a few hundred thousand dollars each - fancy a slice of the pie?"

The caveat with all this, of course, is that the games listed above and in the original article are merely part of the beta - there's absolutely no indication, and it would be ridiculous to assume, that Valve plans to only release those under Steam for Linux. Indeed, with the company having already shown off its Left 4 Dead 2 porting efforts, it's fair to assume that L4D2 - not currently listed as Linux-compatible in the CDR database - will form one of the launch titles proper.

Fingers crossed that the list of available games at launch is closer to the master list of "Steam games with Linux ports," as opposed to the far smaller "Steam games with Linux CDR entries" on which the article was based.
GuilleAcoustic 10th October 2012, 16:04 Quote
Well a question that is not clear ... most of my Steam games are Linux native, I hope I won't have to "re"buy them, would I ?
Anfield 10th October 2012, 17:05 Quote
presumabely they will let you add games you bought elsewhere to steam just like they do on windows.
GuilleAcoustic 10th October 2012, 17:07 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anfield
presumabely they will let you add games you bought elsewhere to steam just like they do on windows.

YUp, but what about games I bought on Steam that are Linux Native ? Did I only bought the Windows version ?

I also bought Indie bundles and reddemed them on Steam. Will I be able to install them on Linux Through Steam ? Or should I use the install and "link" them on Steam?
ZeDestructor 10th October 2012, 17:22 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gareth Halfacree
Re-read the article: FTL is *not* in the list of launch titles. If you click through to the Wiki entry, you'll see a long list of games which are on Steam and also have a native Linux port; however, only those that say 'CDR' next to them have appeared in the CDR database and are likely to form the launch titles. No CDR next to FTL means no impending Steam release for the Linux port.

Also not in the list, as it doesn't yet have a native Linux port. Valve is working on one, true, but there's as yet no clue as to whether it will be ready for public release before the end of the Steam for Linux beta. Also, it was first released on November 17, 2009 - so even if it *were* in the list, I would stand by my statement that the game is outdated.

Tell you what, let's get all journalistic on it and do some in-depth research. Below I'll list all the titles that are in the CDR database as having Linux ports and their original release dates (with the earliest release date listed - so if it came out in the US first, that's the date I'll use.)

Amnesia: The Dark Descent - September 8, 2010
Crusader Kings 2 - February 14, 2012
Cubemen - March 16, 2012
Dynamite Jack - June 28, 2012 (iOS)
Eversion - November, 2008
Galcon Fusion - February 11, 2010
Serious Sam 3: BFE - October 18, 2011
Solar 2 - June 17, 2011
SpaceChem - January 1, 2011
Steel Storm: Burning Retribution - May 11, 2011
Superbrothers: Sword and Sworcery EP - April 16, 2012
Trine 2 - December 7, 2011
Waveform - March 20, 2012
World of Goo - October 13, 2008

Remember, those are the *only* titles (semi-)confirmed as being available for Linux through Steam. Analysing the results: we have five of the 14 titles having been released this year - better than I thought at first glance - with another five having been released last year. The remaining four date to 2008 through 2010.

So, given that the absolute newest game in the list was released four months ago - and it's an iOS port at that - and only four other games in the list come from this year, while 64-ish per cent of the list comes from last year or prior, I stand by my statement of "somewhat outdated."

Confused FTL with Galcon Fusion. My bad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuilleAcoustic
YUp, but what about games I bought on Steam that are Linux Native ? Did I only bought the Windows version ?

I also bought Indie bundles and reddemed them on Steam. Will I be able to install them on Linux Through Steam ? Or should I use the install and "link" them on Steam?

I believe it will fall under SteamPlay and automatically work on Linux in time, similar to how all my Windows games with OSX ports work on OSX, Well, should work at any rate....
Phil Rhodes 10th October 2012, 18:53 Quote
Quote:
I occasionally try a few linux distros just see how things are moving a long, and I'm just reminded as to why I don't use linux.
...
After awhile I just get tired of babysitting the OS and go back to windows.

Well, quite. You can make excuses for a lot of it - oh, it's the hardware manufacturers, oh, it's the distro, oh, it's the package manager... but ultimately they're all still excuses and the bottom line is that it doesn't work very well.
LordPyrinc 11th October 2012, 02:53 Quote
If running linux is so tedious, why do people run it at home? I can see companies using it for server functions, but trying to maintain it as a primary home machine sounds like a huge headache (based on many comments from this thread). I've always used Windows on my home pcs and laptops, going back as early as Windows version 3.11 (ran that version for a few months before upgrading to Windows 95).

EDIT: Granted, Win98 and ME were POS Operating systems. Vista wasn't nearly as bad as many make it out to be. Only crashes I experienced with Vista were due to a particular version of an NVidia driver at the time. Even then, those crashes were extremely rare.
AmEv 11th October 2012, 04:35 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordPyrinc
If running linux is so tedious, why do people run it at home?

Honestly, Kubuntu has been running more stable than XP or Vista for me! The only issue I've had is a weird onboard soundcard bug (for which a PCI sound card fixed), and a one-day PS/2 port malfunction, which was immediately patched.

Honestly, unless you're using horrendously outdated software, or a buggy distro, I fail to see why people are having problems.

*Edit: OK, I do have one minor complaint about the Nvidia drivers: Either I have TwinView (which royally screws up fullscreen mode on certain apps [either uses both monitors (Minecraft), or tries to fit the resolution onto one monitor (YouTube)]), or I have two separate X desktops, where I cannot do true dual-head (apps on edge of screen don't go onto neighbor monitor).
ZeDestructor 11th October 2012, 16:02 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Rhodes
Well, quite. You can make excuses for a lot of it - oh, it's the hardware manufacturers, oh, it's the distro, oh, it's the package manager... but ultimately they're all still excuses and the bottom line is that it doesn't work very well.

It IS the hardware manufacturers fault a LOT of the time. As far as I'm concerned, and unlike Linux Torvalds (the creator of the Linux kernel) you can be free to make proprietary drivers, but you had better support it properly, including fixing all the ABI/API-change hell (Yes, kernel devs can be hopeless sometimes, Linux isn't all rosy-coloured). Nvidia is one of the few companies that get it right, with timely, frequent, full-featured and stable drivers. Meanwhile AMD, Broadcom, Qualcomm, PowerVR and many others all fail to provide proper support: "Oh, you wanna upgrade X.org and/or your kernel? well, enjoy not having a GUI for another 6 months until we can be bothered to fix our shitty drivers". Either provide proper support or go full open source à la Intel and watch the community step up and contribute fixes together with your engineers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordPyrinc
If running linux is so tedious, why do people run it at home? I can see companies using it for server functions, but trying to maintain it as a primary home machine sounds like a huge headache (based on many comments from this thread). I've always used Windows on my home pcs and laptops, going back as early as Windows version 3.11 (ran that version for a few months before upgrading to Windows 95).

EDIT: Granted, Win98 and ME were POS Operating systems. Vista wasn't nearly as bad as many make it out to be. Only crashes I experienced with Vista were due to a particular version of an NVidia driver at the time. Even then, those crashes were extremely rare.

Early Windows Vista is a good example at the hell Linux users go through: piss-poor hardware support from pretty much everyone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmEv
Honestly, Kubuntu has been running more stable than XP or Vista for me! The only issue I've had is a weird onboard soundcard bug (for which a PCI sound card fixed), and a one-day PS/2 port malfunction, which was immediately patched.

Honestly, unless you're using horrendously outdated software, or a buggy distro, I fail to see why people are having problems.

*Edit: OK, I do have one minor complaint about the Nvidia drivers: Either I have TwinView (which royally screws up fullscreen mode on certain apps [either uses both monitors (Minecraft), or tries to fit the resolution onto one monitor (YouTube)]), or I have two separate X desktops, where I cannot do true dual-head (apps on edge of screen don't go onto neighbor monitor).

The newest batch of Nvidia drivers supports randr/xrandr. It was added sometime earlier this year.
Anfield 11th October 2012, 18:16 Quote
vista and problems with drivers? i've found it not too bad, xp 64 bit on the other hand...
ZeDestructor 12th October 2012, 03:32 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anfield
vista and problems with drivers? i've found it not too bad, xp 64 bit on the other hand...

Never used XP 64bit...

In any case, I find the current Linux situation similar to the Vista initial release overall, with some vendors providing very good support and others hopelessly behind.
Lestibournes 17th October 2012, 04:50 Quote
My impression is that there are more new AAA games released in one month on Windows than there are new games of any kind released on Linux in 3 years, so no wonder most of them are a bit old. This situation should change when a new wave of new games comes to Linux, which i expect will happen during 2013-2015, as there are many new games that are being developed for Linux as evidenced by Kickstarter, and that's in addition to the developers of many Linux games who are currently working on their next Linux games. We're looking at a small trickle turning into a modest but healthy stream, and that's in addition to the weak but growing stream of ports.
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