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Fatshark: Not many people finish singleplayer games

Fatshark: Not many people finish singleplayer games

'Not many people finish singleplayer campaigns completely,' says War of the Roses dev Fatshark.

Lead and Gold developer Fatshark reckons that not many players will completely finish a singleplayer campaign in most games, according to comments made in a Paradox Interactive press conference at GamesCom 2011.

The comments came during the unveiling of Fatshark's next game, the Paradox Interactive published medieval fighting game, War of the Roses.

'If you look at the statistics, not many people completely finish most singleplayer campaigns,' said Fatshark's Gordon van Dyke.

So, while War of the Roses will still feature a singleplayer campaign, the focus for the game is instead the multiplayer combat, with Fatshark aiming to have very intuitive melee combat as a cornerstone for the title.

'Our aim is to offer realistically full-scale medieval battles in multiplayer... our focus has always been on getting the melee so it feels intuitive.'

Fatshark knows that not everyone ignores the singleplayer campaign, however. Thus, War of the Roses will feature unlockable items that will only become available to use in multiplayer for those who finish the singleplayer game first.

Intrigued by the blend of multiplayer and singleplayer? Just wondering at what point they'll announce that Sean Bean is doing the voiceover work for this north-England, Medieval fighting game? Let us know your thoughts in the forum.

Check our GamesCom 2011 news hub for all the information from Cologne this year.

47 Comments

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XXAOSICXX 19th August 2011, 13:01 Quote
Yep. That sums me up in a nutshell.
Fizzban 19th August 2011, 13:01 Quote
I usually do.
Woodspoon 19th August 2011, 13:14 Quote
Sounds like an excuse to have a crap SP game.
Most people I know complete all single player element's of a game especially if it's a largely SP game.
will_123 19th August 2011, 13:17 Quote
Disagree if I spend money on a game. Sometimes however bad it is i feel slightly compelled to finish it. And if its good I always do!
Kiytan 19th August 2011, 13:21 Quote
I mostly finish the single player campaigns (I mean, maybe not 100% then, but at least complete the story).

tbh, i think they've just been asking the wrong people :P
runadumb 19th August 2011, 13:36 Quote
Last single player game I didn't finish was Overlord, because it was soooooooo boring. After 6 hours I just gave up. Lucky the series only cost me £2 during a sale.
I mostly persevere even through mediocre games but every now and then I just cut my looses and move on. Spiderman shattered dimensions was another one this year I gave up on. Terrible terrible game.

I think that's the only two this year.

Just finished Limbo there now. Great wee game but according to steam it only took me 3hrs. Kinda wish I'd waited for a sale :(
Kenny_McCormick 19th August 2011, 13:58 Quote
I like the idea of unlockable items thanks to the single/coop mode.
XXAOSICXX 19th August 2011, 13:59 Quote
My friends and I enjoy multiplayer gaming more than single player gaming and because so many games are released sometimes there just isn't time to finish a SP campaign especially if you work full time and want to play the games your mates are playing.

Of the games on my desk in front of me (and on Steam), I haven't finished the SP campaigns of:

Mass Effect 2 (because it's a horrid console port and it raged me too much)
FEAR 2 (see above)
DragonAge (because another game came out)
Sacred 2 (because it's ****)
CoD4 (wanted to play MP)
GRAW2 (wanted to play MP)
Oblivion (other games came out)
DoW2:CR (hit the level cap on the 5th mission - pointless carrying on)
Company of Heroes (wanted to play MP)
Fallout New Vegas (other games came out)
MoH (would rather play BF2)
OF: Dragon Rising (not that great)
OF: Red River (worse that OF:DR)
Resident Evil 5 (got stuck on a bit near the end, couldn't complete)
Torchlight (still playing)
Call of Cthulhu (got bored)
Earth 2160 (****)
GTA Vice City (no idea lol)
Grotesque Tactics (didn't like it)
Killing Floor (didn't like it)
King Arthur (didn't like it)
Jade Empire (horrid console port)
Mount & Blade + Warband (got bored)
Order of War (crap)
Spellforce 1+2 (crap)
Tales of Monkey Island (1-5) (console ported crap)
Rainbow 6 Vegas 2 (ubisoft crap)
Trine (got bored)
The Void (got bored)
Deus ex (got bored)
Deus ex IW (got bored)

...and that's just the ones I can see in my steam list or in front of me!

Of course there's plenty I *have* finished the SP campaigns of - but mostly my friends and I play multiplayer BF2, CoH, Civilization V....

...as far as Fatshark's research goes, they've summed up my friends and I entirely.

What we DO want is decent co-op campaigns.....that can make all the difference. Co-op oblivion/fallout? We'd still be playing them now....
The Hooded Claw 19th August 2011, 14:02 Quote
I guess I'm not that social a player, I prefer single player games as I've encountered annoying "l33t" players before which has ruined the multiplayer experience for me.

As a result I don't bother buying games with a multiplayer bias - reviews often state the sp side is weak. The battlefield series springs to mind.

So there you go developers, thats at least 1 missed sale through neglecting people like me, how many can you afford?
GravitySmacked 19th August 2011, 14:05 Quote
Going back to my youth I rarely finished them but these days I do (unless it's crap).
XXAOSICXX 19th August 2011, 14:09 Quote
To be fair, THC, there are genres of games that really don't suit single-player action....you can hardly punish the developer for having a vision for a game, and that working towards that vision. Large-scale/epic battles with just a solo player and an army of NPCs and some bad A.I. just don't work as well as a huge battlefield full of real players.

It's a little unfair to write-off all multiplayer experiences, too, considering a game like Civilization attracts an entirely different audience to CODBLOPS etc.

They may have missed your sale, but they've likely gained mine....and as a multplayer gamer, I'll be encouraging my friends to purchase too. Maybe they lost yours and gained myself and 3 friends? They can probably afford to do that quite easily....
sakzzz 19th August 2011, 14:26 Quote
Quite true... SP games which go as a story are much more interesting to finish. eg: portal, hl2 etc... On the other hand a game like Diablo2..i remember ...at one point became so difficult, just couldnt defeat the boss..thats when i looked upon a few cheats and the excitement ended...
kornedbeefy 19th August 2011, 14:58 Quote
If its FUN I finish them.
johnnyboy700 19th August 2011, 15:18 Quote
Is it perhaps due to the apparently limited attention span that some people have today? Probably as a result of being weaned on MTV and endless reapeats on TV.
I usually play a game until I finish it, if a new one comes along I might give it a brief try to make sure it loads okay then go back an finish the one I'm on. The only game I've played in recent years that I couldn't finish was Portal Prelude and that was because I couldn't finish the last puzzle. I had a pretty good idea what to do but just couldn't manage it.
Krikkit 19th August 2011, 15:37 Quote
Do they mean 100% finished including all the crappy achievements these days, or just finish the storyline? Because I know for damn sure I haven't 100%'d an SP game in a long time.
XXAOSICXX 19th August 2011, 15:52 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyboy700
Is it perhaps due to the apparently limited attention span that some people have today? Probably as a result of being weaned on MTV and endless reapeats on TV.
.

No, I don't think so.

I'm 32 - my attention span is just fine, in fact, I've been sat in front of Civ V since 5am this morning breaking only to goto the bathroom, make brews, comment on here etc.

Much of the time it has a lot to do with wanting to play games online/LAN with friends - and SP doesn't offer that.
SMIFFYDUDE 19th August 2011, 15:53 Quote
I have a lot of games going back years that I still haven't completed (quite a few I haven't even started).
I give up on games when it gets to a point where i'm dying/reloading more than i'm progressing and I lose the will to carry on. But decent story lead games I tend to complete.

S.T.A.L.K.E.R: SoC is the game I have installed at the moment i'm really stuggling to get on with. I just can't get into it.
jrs77 19th August 2011, 16:04 Quote
Put me on the list of people who usually don't finish the singleplayer-campaigns, especially when we're talking about FPS-games or RTS-games.

The only game where I've finished the singleplayer mode in the last 10 years is Borderlands, while the rest of them I only play the multiplayer-stuff and use the singleplayer only for getting to know the game and some training.

Playing games alone is probably the most boring thing I can think of. When I'm bored I don't grab a game where there's a singleplayer campaign but usually something more casual, like racing a few laps in GT5, playing some SoulCalibur or fraggin some stuff in UT3-quickmatch.

First and foremost I play MMORPGs as playing with others simply is way more fun then playing alone and there's allways someone to play with in MMORPGs, even when my buddies aren't online.
Toploaded 19th August 2011, 16:47 Quote
Yeah... I always want to, but often get distracted and forget to go back to them or start a new game before I've finished the last even if I LOVED the game . In fact this post has inspired me to go back and finish up some games that asap because its just silly really. I took a planned break from the Witcher 2 but many games I just forgot I was playing (BFBC2 is a good example, I was having a blast too)

MP, modding (games) and the Steam sales are all factors here I guess. Need to have a rule to always finish (good) SP games and never have more then 2 on the go at once, I guess.
fdbh96 19th August 2011, 17:02 Quote
On my ps3 I never do but on pc I tend to try (OF dragon rising is just so boring)
eddman 19th August 2011, 17:21 Quote
I mostly finish SP campaigns if they:
1) have a good story and/or 2) are fun to play.
Unfortunately most current games are non. I fully enjoyed max payne, max payne 2, batman arkham asylum and a some others that I can't remember right now.
XXAOSICXX 19th August 2011, 17:22 Quote
Sooooo...seems there's more people fall into the "don't always complete" category than people thought.
OCJunkie 19th August 2011, 17:53 Quote
I'd like to see those statistics myself... of course there's no reference, so I suspect they're pulling that out their arses.

And if it is in fact true, they have the effect backwards; devs don't cheap out on SP because most people apparently don't finish it, it's that most people don't finish it because the devs got lazy and the SP sucks. They use that as an excuse to make half a game.
XXAOSICXX 19th August 2011, 18:43 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by OCJunkie
devs don't cheap out on SP because most people apparently don't finish it, it's that most people don't finish it because the devs got lazy and the SP sucks. They use that as an excuse to make half a game.

..I'd like to see the source of those statistics too.

All the devs I know (and I know quite a few) are anything but lazy. What tends to happen is that a studio will have a great idea for a game and the publisher, who is holding the purse strings (and typically cares only for marketability/potential for profit - obviously) insists on there being a Single-Player campaign because "that's what people like".

The opposite often applies, of course, which is why so many primarily single-player games have a lousy death-match mode added on to it - because the publisher doesn't want to take the risk that it won't sell to people looking for MP content.

Fatshark aren't saying that OTHER devs cut their SP content short because most people don't finish them...they're saying that THEY'RE making the SP content short because they believe most people don't care about it.

If they're making a multiplayer game but have a publisher insisting on single-player content, what would you expect them to say?
Paradigm Shifter 19th August 2011, 20:44 Quote
I've finished the SP mode of every game I own (that aren't still sealed, because there are a few) that has one, except for some of the abominably hard JRPGs available on the PS3... Cross Edge, Agarest, Trinity Universe etc. I might not have got every secret, but I've completed the storylines at the minimum.

But, eh, it's not like there won't be games out there with decent SP sections, even if "Fatshark" think it's not worth the effort.
Eiffie 19th August 2011, 21:04 Quote
If for whatever reason I don't finish a SP game I always make a note to go back and either restart from the first level and do a full playthrough or I pick it up from where I left off and grind it out. MP holds almost no value for me in the life-span of a game unless it's built from the ground up for just that. There is always gonna be two sides to that though, some of my friends could care less about an epic 30 hour SP games and would rather play the same 15 MP maps over and over and over and over after a short 6-12 hour SP mission. That's just not for me.
XXAOSICXX 19th August 2011, 21:14 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paradigm Shifter
Ieven if "Fatshark" think it's not worth the effort.

But what if it's not "worth the effort" because actually it's supposed to be a multiplayer game?

Would you complain that World of Warcraft didn't contain a single player campaign? Of course not, because the design decision that was made was that the game would be multiplayer only and that's that.

It's not about "effort" - it's about the type of game it is, and the ideas and goals of the designers.

I know that a few of my friends who I still play BF2 with are disappointed that BF3 has any single player content at all. I'm eagerly awaiting BF3 but I doubt I'll even launch the single-player campaign at all - which, it would seem, has been thrown in to appeal to the CoD SP masses for maximum profitability. It has nothing to do with whether or not the game NEEDS single player, or whether or not we WANT single player - publishers make decisions based on their potential return. Simple as.

If you don't like short single player campaigns bolted onto what is a multiplayer game at heart - don't buy it!
jimmyjj 19th August 2011, 22:28 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by XXAOSICXX
My friends and I enjoy multiplayer gaming more than single player gaming and because so many games are released sometimes there just isn't time to finish a SP campaign especially if you work full time and want to play the games your mates are playing.

Of the games on my desk in front of me (and on Steam), I haven't finished the SP campaigns of:

Mass Effect 2 (because it's a horrid console port and it raged me too much)
FEAR 2 (see above)
DragonAge (because another game came out)
Sacred 2 (because it's ****)
CoD4 (wanted to play MP)
GRAW2 (wanted to play MP)
Oblivion (other games came out)
DoW2:CR (hit the level cap on the 5th mission - pointless carrying on)
Company of Heroes (wanted to play MP)
Fallout New Vegas (other games came out)
MoH (would rather play BF2)
OF: Dragon Rising (not that great)
OF: Red River (worse that OF:DR)
Resident Evil 5 (got stuck on a bit near the end, couldn't complete)
Torchlight (still playing)
Call of Cthulhu (got bored)
Earth 2160 (****)
GTA Vice City (no idea lol)
Grotesque Tactics (didn't like it)
Killing Floor (didn't like it)
King Arthur (didn't like it)
Jade Empire (horrid console port)
Mount & Blade + Warband (got bored)
Order of War (crap)
Spellforce 1+2 (crap)
Tales of Monkey Island (1-5) (console ported crap)
Rainbow 6 Vegas 2 (ubisoft crap)
Trine (got bored)
The Void (got bored)
Deus ex (got bored)
Deus ex IW (got bored)

...and that's just the ones I can see in my steam list or in front of me!

Of course there's plenty I *have* finished the SP campaigns of - but mostly my friends and I play multiplayer BF2, CoH, Civilization V....

...as far as Fatshark's research goes, they've summed up my friends and I entirely.

What we DO want is decent co-op campaigns.....that can make all the difference. Co-op oblivion/fallout? We'd still be playing them now....

Out of those games I have:

Mass Effect 2
Dragon Age
CoD4
Vice City
Deus EX
Deus Ex IW

I finished them all.
XXAOSICXX 19th August 2011, 22:37 Quote
That wasn't the point I was making....nevermind.
The_Beast 19th August 2011, 23:59 Quote
I'll play SP games to the end almost always. However I only find every item in the game if I really like it.


But if it's a FPS, SP is for practice for the MP :)
GravitySmacked 20th August 2011, 00:19 Quote
From reading the above comments it leads me to the conclusion that, maybe, if more single player games were worth finishing more people would.
Elton 20th August 2011, 00:28 Quote
I'm having a hard time getting into new Vegas. Mind you I did FO3 (which was pretty pants) and Oblivion (fantastic) all the way through, but I never did get into NV. Or the Witcher for that matter.
erratum1 20th August 2011, 00:43 Quote
Only game I bought and haven't done is Stalker, just couldn't get into it.

Did Mass effect 2 even though I thought it was a bit rubbish.
thehippoz 20th August 2011, 02:58 Quote
ocd when it comes to games.. like if I was playing a mmo nowdays, I would be one of the top players easy.. just the way I am think

playing through dungeons of dredmor and I'll finish it, like other bad games played- half the fun is figuring out what works and then it's stupid easy.. even though it looks like a horses ass- the random dungeons created are actually pretty good..

really a waste of time when you think about all the other cool things there are to do.. but us gamers are like flaming guys to a shasta bar

just got back from seeing conan- and what has been seen cannot be unseen.. I miss the old days of midgets, bad actors with bad accents.. and there was no maid to be found for some humor.. like gaming nowdays- it's gotten so good it's bad in a way.. don't know how to explain it any better than that

sworn to retire.. but always get that itch to play, even if it's burn the rope
XXAOSICXX 20th August 2011, 08:50 Quote
I think what's clearly coming out of this discussion is a division based on "getting value for my money".

One group will play each and every game to completion because they spent the money so they're going to damn well make sure they get their 30 quid's worth. The "it's cheaper than a night out, and took me <x> hours, so I don't mind so much - even though it was a bit crap" approach.

Another group (which includes myself) who will just as easily put a game down if it's not enjoyable/mediocre and move on to something that provides the fun you were looking for. The "my time is more valuable to me than £30 so I'll write that game off and just play something else and call it a lesson learned" approach.

Incidentally, for this reason, I've walked out of many cinemas after 20 minutes having been so appalled at the movie I figure my time is more important to me than to force a further 100 minutes of crap into my system for the sake of getting value for money out of a tenner.
eddman 20th August 2011, 10:26 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elton
I'm having a hard time getting into new Vegas. Mind you I did FO3 (which was pretty pants) and Oblivion (fantastic) all the way through, but I never did get into NV. Or the Witcher for that matter.

Yeah. Somehow FO3 is a better game than NV, although I've finished them both but enjoyed FO3 more, or maybe that was because I had fawkes, with his unlimited ammo, as companion. :D
Adnoctum 20th August 2011, 11:36 Quote
I don't much care about a game's MP, I much prefer SP. Used to be that my Internet connection was so sh*t that others would complain, but now my connection is better I can't be bothered devoting the kind of time to it. I play MP only for the social aspect with friends, and I find that this is best in a LAN environment.

So...developers don't put any effort into SP -> SP isn't very good -> Player isn't likely to persist -> Players don't finish SP -> Developers don't put any effort into SP -> SP isn't very....Oh, we've found a self-fulfilling prophecy.
It is up to Fatshark what they focus on. I'm not going to slag them off for a focus on MP, it's their choice and I don't care much about their game. I would care if they used "SP never gets finished anyway" as an excuse to not do SP properly. Given the games they've developed in the past I wouldn't have expected a great SP campaign anyway, so no loss.

I don't always finish a game though, and not because I lack attention or commitment:
  1. The game is crap. Doesn't usually happen to me because of reviews, but sometimes a reviewer's opinion doesn't match mine. (IL-2 Sturmovik: 1946. Metascore of 86 and I hate it. Have I grown out of plane sims? I could also add Mirror's Edge to this)
  2. Sometimes a game just isn't worth the effort it requires to play, with a low effort/enjoyment ratio. (Metro 2033. I really like it, but there is so much about it that annoys me. I suspect it is because it isn't STALKER, a series I adore)
  3. Utterly borked console port. (Saints Row 2 for PC - 'nuff said?)
  4. The game is interesting and worthwhile but not engaging. I can easily be distracted by something shiny. (Deus Ex. It shames me to admit that the first time I played DE I didn't play it past the Liberty Island level. For various reasons I couldn't get into it at that time, but a year later I reinstalled it and played it through several times)
  5. The Real > Simulated mayhem. Sometimes you need to re-arrange your priorities. (Portal. I started playing, personal reasons got in the way of it, and I intend to complete it but there are just so many unplayed games in my Steam account. Damn you Steam sales!)
  6. The game just isn't stable enough to persist with. (The Witcher. I intended to return after a few patches but never got around to it. I do intend on completing it)
  7. The game is too big/too long/too much of the same. ("How is this possible?" I hear you cry! One word: GRID. By the time I'd finished 2/3 of it I couldn't be bothered with completing it for some "Congratulations, you've won!" screen as a reward, and I thought that gameplay wouldn't change later on anyway)

Good games compel you to invest in SP, with the Fallout games a good example in my case. I've only played them through once each but Steam says I've put 130+ hours into Fallout 3 (inc DLC) and 100+ hours into Fallout New Vegas (not including DLC). And I haven't completed them 100%.
I wouldn't like to think how much of my life I've sunk into GTA: San Andreas, and if I could access my Real Life Steam profile I would probably see (many?) thousands of hours devoted to the original Sim City, Colonization and The Settlers on the Amiga over the years I played them pre-PC.

It was far more common to not complete games in the past, because they generally were so hard. Compared to those classic games, modern ones are pretty easy on normal difficulty. Which is also a modern concept; difficulty levels. It used to be that the difficulty increased the deeper you went into the game, but IMO the deeper you get in games now the more powerful your tools become to even out the increased difficulty of adversaries.
Paradigm Shifter 20th August 2011, 11:39 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by XXAOSICXX
If you don't like short single player campaigns bolted onto what is a multiplayer game at heart - don't buy it!

I think you just missed the point I was trying to make completely...

...

Agree with Adnoctum's post.
karx11erx 21st August 2011, 20:40 Quote
@Fatshark: That is complete nonsense, imvho - unless it is some cheap crap plugged onto a multiplayer game, and not really worth being named a "singleplayer campaign".

I bet however that most people who have started to play any version of Half-Life, Fear, Crysis, Far Cry, Bioshock, Deus Ex, Call of Duty, Fallout 3, Stalker, Dragon Age, etc. etc. etc. have finished their single player campaigns - maybe more than once.

So you do your bloody homework and make a singleplayer campaign worth the name, and worth playing, and people will play it.

But I think I know why you wrote that: It is much harder to make a good balanced SP game with a good balanced SP campaign, than a multiplayer game: You need more media (levels, textures, sounds, ...) and a good AI.

So maybe you should modify your statement to "Most people don't finish those singleplayer campaigns the makers of which sucked at producing". The real problem may be that there are many more of these than of gems like the one I have named above.

Btw, while I have played a real lot of multiplayer games, I'd prefer a good, creative SP game over them anytime. Multiplayer somehow is always the same (and the older I grow, the less can I be bothered to deal with the masses of trolls and retards populating public servers in a never ending stream - and I am not a clan player either).
rogerrabbits 21st August 2011, 22:20 Quote
According to WHAT statistics? I've never been polled. I finish 95% of single player campaigns I play.
ryan498 21st August 2011, 22:22 Quote
I tend to finish them, unless its games like GT5, then I just go on multiplayer
enciem 21st August 2011, 22:33 Quote
Can't say i often even start the single player game if there's multi-player involved as well, though I tend to go in phases of wanting to play single player games or multi.

I reckon this dudes just trying to say something contentious so no-one mentions the heap that was lead and gold mind.
malcolm 22nd August 2011, 02:55 Quote
I don't, but then I'm not a pimply faced 10 year old with sufficient time on my hands to work my way through them all.

However, that doesn't stop me buying them... what I am is a typical cashed up geek who buys maybe 50 games a year, even I only play them for an hour, or sometimes not at all (like that cowboy and indians GTA4 thingy sitting in my stash which actually looks kinda fun and I must get around to).

Multiplayer games, aside from 1942 and BF2, not really interested.

FWIW, I would like to see more single player games with co-op.

I don't have hours to muck about online playing games... take the single player experience away and I'll take my money away.

/edit: Admittedly those 50 games are across consoles and the PC, not 50 PC games a year.
Denis_iii 22nd August 2011, 13:00 Quote
I do but due to work and other media I don't really have the time, currently have a back log of games to play (Steam sales always get me!). I will NOT buy any more until I've complete them all then will focus on a small selection with replayability such as Diablo 3, SC2, Torchlight 2, Skyrim, TF2, LFD, Guild Wars 2........to many already FFS....guess its time to grow up :/
[USRF]Obiwan 22nd August 2011, 13:52 Quote
if i can't finish it i cheat... Last game i played till the end (without cheating) was Crysis2. I liked it very much. on some points I was mesmerized by the scenery which got me killed a view times...

The game before that was the one where you where followed by a very large wheel crashing anything in his path (cant remember the name of the game) but it was also great SP experience and awesome scenery aswell.
Hawklan 22nd August 2011, 17:38 Quote
I can fall in that camp, usualy when boredoom or frustration sets in
Tyinsar 22nd August 2011, 18:47 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by XXAOSICXX
To be fair, THC, there are genres of games that really don't suit single-player action....
There is truth in that.

Though I suspect that sometimes a lack of imagination is to blame - ideas that a certain type of game can only played a certain way. (Though, if you change it does it then fall into a different genre?)
Quote:
Originally Posted by malcolm
I don't, but then I'm not a pimply faced 10 year old with sufficient time on my hands to work my way through them all.
...
FWIW, I would like to see more single player games with co-op.

I don't have hours to muck about online playing games... take the single player experience away and I'll take my money away.
...

I also prefer single player and co-op games I can play with friends. What ruins multi-player for me is (as others have mentioned) the masses of: trolls, poor losers, and (even worse) poor winners. .oO(add beggars in MMOs to that list too).
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