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Anonymous threatens Sony

Anonymous threatens Sony

Hacking group Anonymous has threatened Sony with its biggest attack, ever.

Infamous hacking group Anonymous has posted a new video threatening Sony with 'the biggest attack you have ever witnessed'.

The attacks are being staged as part of a protest against Sony's lawsuit against George 'Geohot' Hotz' settlement, who previously hacked the PS3 firmware. The lawsuit has recently been settled, but Anonymous still disputes the morality of Sony's efforts to identify users through Youtube and other websites.

Anonymous has already launched attacks against Sony's PlayStation Network, but has since suspended such action on the basis that it is fighting for consumers, not against them.

'We realise that targeting the PSN is not a good idea. We have therefore temporarily suspended our action, until a method is found that will not severely impact Sony customers.'

'Anonymous is on your side, standing up for your rights. We are not aiming to attack customers of Sony. This attack is aimed solely at Sony, and we will try our best to not affect the gamers, as this would defeat the purpose of our actions. If we did inconvenience users, please know that this was not our goal.

'This operation is a response to Sony's attempt to deprive their customers of products they bought and therefore own, wholly and completely. Anonymous will not attempt to fight this by following the exact same course of action.'

Anonymous hasn't detailed exactly how it will attack Sony, obviously, but has tried to drum up support for protests at Sony stores worldwide this weekend.

Check out the video below, then let us know your thoughts in the forums.

70 Comments

Discuss in the forums Reply
Mentai 14th April 2011, 12:25 Quote
Ridiculous
thelaw 14th April 2011, 12:42 Quote
Its like a "b" rated movie
mi1ez 14th April 2011, 12:48 Quote
I like their sentiment, but they do put out ridiculous videos...
andrew8200m 14th April 2011, 12:52 Quote
Lols!
r3loaded 14th April 2011, 12:54 Quote
I'm already supporting Anonymous - I haven't bought a Sony product in years. :p
BRAWL 14th April 2011, 12:58 Quote
haha I do love Anon.
B1GBUD 14th April 2011, 13:06 Quote
So Anon post video on Youtube, I guess their IP wouldn't have been masked making it easy for another "breach of privacy"....
Fizzban 14th April 2011, 13:07 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by B1GBUD
So Anon post video on Youtube, I guess their IP wouldn't have been masked making it easy for another "breach of privacy"....

Maybe they uploaded it from an internet cafe?
CardJoe 14th April 2011, 13:08 Quote
The video does look suspiciously like the Bit-Gamer labs, I think...
Dogbert666 14th April 2011, 13:13 Quote
I do think some of the stuff is funny, but I don't think the protests they're trying to incite with the video above will do much - a bunch of kids in masks outside a Sony Store is hardly likely to deter a high street shopper, probably just amuse and confuse them.
Ljs 14th April 2011, 13:20 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by CardJoe
The video does look suspiciously like the Bit-Gamer labs, I think...

Haha!
Deders 14th April 2011, 13:23 Quote
So they want people to boycott and protest against Sony because they won't let them pirate games?
Ross1 14th April 2011, 13:30 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deders
So they want people to boycott and protest against Sony because they won't let them pirate games?

otherOS =/ pirating games.
themax 14th April 2011, 13:31 Quote
In all seriousness though. I can't agree to their cause. Too wishy washy in their methods. There are much more serious matters at hand they can inject themselves into. Not trying to saying that a court ruling in Sony's favor wouldn't set precedence for the future, but even still I don't think it was something as serious as Anon makes it out to be or Ben Heck would have been sued many times over for his console mods.

Perhaps I'll make my way to a Sony store and purchase another LCD for the bedroom for the lulz. And I'll wear a Guy Fawkes mask while I do it.
fodder 14th April 2011, 13:31 Quote
between 'engineered failure' in their hardware, atrocious software, blatant disregard for loss of media legally bought and the proprietorisation of open(ish) source phone OS, I have not bought and will not touch Sony products ever again.

I do think they are chasing a lost cause though. I wouldn't want someone advertising a way to cut off my income. Far better to show how many users lost music libraries bought from sony when they tried to change machines after 'sound stage' or whatever it was called was discontinued. Or how video recorders and DVD players had parts engineered to fail just outside warranty. Maybe try to educate potential customers how Android has a built in over the air update system yet Sony tie you to another piece of software on your PC or Mac to perform their updates (long after most other manufacturers have released theirs).

Rant over.
Whirly 14th April 2011, 13:32 Quote
I find the whole Sony fighting against copyright theft thing both deeply ironic and rather ridiculous.

Ironic - It was Sony who fought against (and beat) the movie studios back in the eighties when they released the video recorder.

Ridiculous - they remind me of King Canute trying to hold back the tide. Except in their case their are trying to keep information secret that has already been released on the internet (it's even been tweeted by one of their employees!). Using the courts to try and protect the PS3 from hackers is pretty much achieving the exact opposite.

Still, to some degree they brought it upon themselves by their draconian removal of OtherOS.

As for Anonymous, it seems that some kids enjoy making dodgy videos. Nevertheless, I can't entirely disagree with "civil disobedience". Too many corporations are using money to influence politicians and the threat of expensive legal action to wield power over everyone else. I'm not sure I entirely agree with Anon but one thing I do know this: our basic right of "innocent until proven guilty" is being eroded (removed?) under our noses. In a very short time an accusation of copyright theft will be an assumption of guilt.

So what is worse? Illegal "civil disobedience" or the loss of our basic rights?
B1GBUD 14th April 2011, 13:34 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by fodder
between 'engineered failure' in their hardware, atrocious software, blatant disregard for loss of media legally bought and the proprietorisation of open(ish) source phone OS, I have not bought and will not touch Sony products ever again.

I do think they are chasing a lost cause though. I wouldn't want someone advertising a way to cut off my income. Far better to show how many users lost music libraries bought from sony when they tried to change machines after 'sound stage' or whatever it was called was discontinued. Or how video recorders and DVD players had parts engineered to fail just outside warranty. Maybe try to educate potential customers how Android has a built in over the air update system yet Sony tie you to another piece of software on your PC or Mac to perform their updates (long after most other manufacturers have released theirs).

Rant over.

Sent from your iPhone ;P
Unknownsock 14th April 2011, 13:41 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deders
So they want people to boycott and protest against Sony because they won't let them pirate games?

It has nothing to do with Piracy.
Eggy 14th April 2011, 13:43 Quote
They should get a job and out of their parents' basement.
Deders 14th April 2011, 14:06 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by fodder
Far better to show how many users lost music libraries bought from sony when they tried to change machines after 'sound stage' or whatever it was called was discontinued.

They replaced the very poor Sony Connect software with the 'functional' Sonicstage which is still available today
l3v1ck 14th April 2011, 14:45 Quote
Attacking PSN was the computer equivalent of lorry drivers doing a "go slow" on motorways during the Sept 2000 fuel protests. It only inconvenienced the general public and not the people they were protesting against.
SMIFFYDUDE 14th April 2011, 14:48 Quote
LOL anonymous its clearly Stephen Hawking
alf- 14th April 2011, 14:50 Quote
a bunch of pretend "hackers" VS Sony ( a multi billion dollar multinational company, that has vast sums of money and dedicated personnel)

i wonder how this will turn out.....

i guessing just like every other attack anonymous has made, Sony will experience some annoyance, maybe a few websites will go down, but within a few days it'll be over and anonymous will be nowhere to be seen.

case in point, look at MasterCard, they were attacked by anonymous, but look at MasterCard now....yep operating perfectly normally.

anonymous like to make a song and dance towards theirs actions, they pile on the grandeur, but in the end they accomplish nothing, well apart from pissing of the customers.
PureSilver 14th April 2011, 15:09 Quote
That's a truly terrible video. At least the Scientology-related ones had a neat stock-footage-Microsoft-Sam untraceable look to them. The strings and the shoddy cuts from V for Vendetta are robbing this of whatever credibility it might otherwise have had.
Plugs 14th April 2011, 15:15 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by thelaw
Its like a "b" rated movie
i'd go with "d" rated
IronDoc 14th April 2011, 15:19 Quote
Stop treating 'anonymous' as an organization!
That is all.
cool_dude 14th April 2011, 15:29 Quote
lmao like a saw movie.
Whirly 14th April 2011, 15:35 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by alf-
a bunch of pretend "hackers" VS Sony ( a multi billion dollar multinational company, that has vast sums of money and dedicated personnel)

i wonder how this will turn out.....

i guessing just like every other attack anonymous has made, Sony will experience some annoyance, maybe a few websites will go down, but within a few days it'll be over and anonymous will be nowhere to be seen.

case in point, look at MasterCard, they were attacked by anonymous, but look at MasterCard now....yep operating perfectly normally.

anonymous like to make a song and dance towards theirs actions, they pile on the grandeur, but in the end they accomplish nothing, well apart from pissing of the customers.

Interesting point of view. Don't protest because it's pointless. Personally I think that if you feel strongly about something you should protest whether you have any chance of achieving results or not.

As for Anonymous never achieving anything...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/8280895/What-is-behind-the-end-of-ACSLaw.html

ACS Law are now dead. The owner faces massive fines and being struck off as a solicitor. The whole scheme is pretty much dead in the UK for every company.

A big result for a lot of people who have been wrongly accused and fleeced.
Snips 14th April 2011, 15:47 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by SMIFFYDUDE
LOL anonymous its clearly Stephen Hawking

Holy Shizzle, you're right!
Snips 14th April 2011, 15:54 Quote
Wasn't the PS3 hacked in the first place to unlock the ability to install and run a Linux distro that Sony themselves withdrew?

If I had purchased a PS3 and one of the reasons for that purchase was the ability to have Linux on there, I would be pissed as well.

Pissed off enough to fire bomb the local Sony Centre? No, not really. However, I would go and give the acting manager in charge of the store a good talking to.
alf- 14th April 2011, 15:54 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whirly


Interesting point of view. Don't protest because it's pointless. Personally I think that if you feel strongly about something you should protest whether you have any chance of achieving results or not.

As for Anonymous never achieving anything...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/8280895/What-is-behind-the-end-of-ACSLaw.html

ACS Law are now dead. The owner faces massive fines and being struck off as a solicitor. The whole scheme is pretty much dead in the UK for every company.

A big result for a lot of people who have been wrongly accused and fleeced.

i'm not against protesting, i never said i was.

i am against anonymous and their actions, what they do isn't protesting.


As for the link you posted, i fail to see how anonymous made much difference, the article itself even implies that, it shows ACS as incompetent, how ACS couldn't show evidence of effectiveness and how WHICH? had received hundreds of complaints from falsely accused people.

if anything the article just shows ACS as destined to fail, anonymous didn't seem to have much affect on that,
dactone 14th April 2011, 16:12 Quote
sony are just as bad as apple :)
dactone 14th April 2011, 16:16 Quote
also havn't these kids got anything else to do? get outside its sun shining:)
Woodspoon 14th April 2011, 16:20 Quote
Hmm interesting
Standing up for your rights is always good, the trick is not looking like a complete knob while doing it.
themax 14th April 2011, 16:28 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snips
Wasn't the PS3 hacked in the first place to unlock the ability to install and run a Linux distro that Sony themselves withdrew?

If I had purchased a PS3 and one of the reasons for that purchase was the ability to have Linux on there, I would be pissed as well.

Pissed off enough to fire bomb the local Sony Centre? No, not really. However, I would go and give the acting manager in charge of the store a good talking to.

OtherOS would still be here today if people would have played within the restrictions of the security. Hypervisor limited hardware access by Linux on the PS3 to protect the console from piracy. When it was compromised; otherOS was removed to maintain the integrity of the primary feature on the PS3 which is video games.

http://rdist.root.org/2010/01/27/how-the-ps3-hypervisor-was-hacked/
sotu1 14th April 2011, 17:24 Quote
You know that episode of South Park where Cartman can't stop laughing at the midget no matter how serious the midget is being? Even when the midget gives Cartman a bit of a kicking? I won't stop laughing at Anon for being dumbasses, even if they did end up bringing down Sony!
Deders 14th April 2011, 17:27 Quote
Umm so you're comparing yourself to..... Cartman?
AstralWanderer 14th April 2011, 17:30 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by r3loaded
I'm already supporting Anonymous - I haven't bought a Sony product in years. :p
Quote:
Originally Posted by fodder
between 'engineered failure' in their hardware, atrocious software, blatant disregard for loss of media legally bought and the proprietorisation of open(ish) source phone OS, I have not bought and will not touch Sony products ever again.
+1 to the Sony boycott - I've had good service from the Sony hardware I purchased (and still use) a decade ago but I will not spend a single penny more on such an arrogant and hypocritical collection of control freaks (most recently I decided against picking up a Hail of Bullets album when I found it was released by Sony Music).

Any Firefox users wishing to boycott them on the music front may find the RIAARadar plugin useful (though it doesn't always give right results).
Quote:
Originally Posted by alf-
As for the link you posted, i fail to see how anonymous made much difference...if anything the article just shows ACS as destined to fail, anonymous didn't seem to have much affect on that,
The exposure of ACS' database, including the details of people accused of copyright infringement, put ACS in likely breach of the Data Protection Act (cue extended wrist slapping from the Information Commissioner) and the publication of their emails provided significant evidence (which may or may not have been admissible in court) about the dubious quality of their litigation.

ACS would very likely have failed in court without Anonymous' help, but they can take credit for putting ACS in the clapper sooner.

A more significant feat was the exposure of the techniques and tactics used by HBGary Federal. As well as removing an unsavoury operator, Anonymous' actions here have provided solid evidence for any concerned about the activities of private security firms, compounded by their hiring of ex-government intelligence officers.
r3loaded 14th April 2011, 18:33 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by AstralWanderer
an arrogant and hypocritical collection of control freaks
Hmmmm, I'm sure there's another company out there which those words remind me of...
alf- 14th April 2011, 18:36 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by AstralWanderer

A more significant feat was the exposure of the techniques and tactics used by HBGary Federal. As well as removing an unsavoury operator, Anonymous' actions here have provided solid evidence for any concerned about the activities of private security firms, compounded by their hiring of ex-government intelligence officers.

credit this was one of most successful things anonymous have done, in the sense it was an actually hack that achieved something, rather than silly DoS attack that achieved minor annoyance.

but as far as i'm aware HBgary is operating albeit with a tarnished reputation though i doubt that matters to its customers as they were pretty seedy themselves. (doesn't fill me with joy that the US government is one such customer)

i still stand my views that anonymous like to make a song and dance about their actions, but in reality don't achieve anything,
i certainty don't think they can really do much against Sony,
Sony is just too big and with too many resources at their disposal.
fodder 14th April 2011, 19:07 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by B1GBUD
Quote:
Originally Posted by fodder
between 'engineered failure' ............ your PC or Mac to perform their updates (long after most other manufacturers have released theirs).

Rant over.

Sent from your iPhone ;P

Oh dear Bob no! That's another rant in itself. PC and Android here thankyou.
Eiffie 14th April 2011, 20:27 Quote
I wonder how much of a bounty this guy would fetch if we got him to sony in the trunk of a car, do they lend out super sony rifles to those who are willing to try and hunt this guy down?
Toploaded 14th April 2011, 21:56 Quote
So many worthy causes in the world, this is not one of them.
TWeaK 14th April 2011, 21:56 Quote
I think Anon would be right in inconveniencing customers. That's (one of) the way(s) protests work - you get peoples' attention by stopping them doing what they want to do, then tell them why you're doing it. If the reason you've got is good - and in this case I'd say most people would agree, particularly with the points that fodder raised about Sony's practices in the past - then chances are most people will actually agree with you and maybe even join your cause.

It's a tight line to walk, and I think the traits of both the gaming crowd and Anon would make it even tighter, but at the end of the day if something is wrong someone's got to stand up and let it be known.

As to whether or not Anon actually accomplish anything, that's another matter. At the end of the day, they're basically a part of the internet: completely wild and untameable, even from themselves.

@those arguing for other more worthwhile causes: how many causes are you fighting for?
Canon 14th April 2011, 22:11 Quote
Some people have clearly taken a certain movie to seriously. Quite frankly, twats.
Canon 14th April 2011, 22:11 Quote
sorry for double.
Deders 14th April 2011, 22:12 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toploaded
So many worthy causes in the world, this is not one of them.

+1, nay +3
Ergath 14th April 2011, 22:18 Quote
Two words occur to me: Juvenile and Fail.
Deders 14th April 2011, 22:20 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canon
Some people have clearly taken a certain movie to seriously. Quite frankly, twats.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canon
sorry for double.

It was as if someone with a similar sounding voice further back in the crowd was echoing you
Podge4 14th April 2011, 23:20 Quote
I used to install plasma tv's and there was a sony and samsung panel that the insides were Exactly the same, slightly different outsides. samsung charged £3,000 and sony charged £5,500, you were spending £1,500 on some extra plastic.
Deders 14th April 2011, 23:24 Quote
On the other hand you can get sony headphones for around £40 that give you the same quality as pairs that would normally cost you well over £100.

And better sounding MP3 players than the equivalent (or any) iPod for much less.
lacuna 15th April 2011, 13:16 Quote
As a PS3 owners I think these 'Anonymous' dickheads should just **** right off. Maybe even get jobs!
themax 15th April 2011, 13:21 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Podge4
I used to install plasma tv's and there was a sony and samsung panel that the insides were Exactly the same, slightly different outsides. samsung charged £3,000 and sony charged £5,500, you were spending £1,500 on some extra plastic.

During my short stint at Best Buy as a Home Theatre associate I learned that Samsung provides Sony with their panels. Sony LCD = Samsung LCD. I've seen the prices flip depending on what features the TV you are buying have. Even the lower end TV brands are technicially premium manufacture's parts. I believe Best Buy's Insignia TVs are just rebranded Toshibas.
logonui 15th April 2011, 14:35 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by lacuna
As a PS3 owners I think these 'Anonymous' dickheads should just **** right off. Maybe even get jobs!

So are you saying that people are unable to stand up for what they believe in AND do an honest days work at the same time?

Whilst I agree that Anonymous doesn't directly effect things in a big way, they bring issues to the forefront of the public eye that would otherwise have been swept under the carpet or lost in the bowels of the internet. I hate to think what this world would be like if no one had ever stood up and said "No, I'm not going to stand for this any longer". Without people who actively campaign for the rights of every single person on this planet we wouldn't have half the things we now take for granted.
tad2008 15th April 2011, 15:55 Quote
Sony may have the marketing and the brand awareness but their choice of proprietary hardware (ie memory cards for their phones) has always kept me well clear of them.

They got off to a good start back in the day bringing the Sony Walkman to the masses and making personal stereos more mainstream. Sony has had some good ideas over the years, often falling short with poor implementations that leave a nasty taste in the mouth of consumers.

+1 to Anon
maximus09 15th April 2011, 20:12 Quote
I'd like to see if anyone actually turns up at the Sony stores, it would be funny if just one guy turned up in a outrageous costume and then got arrested as he screamed about the injustice. Someone should film that.

However I do agree about the breach of privacy, but don't support the hacking of the PS3 and the piracy that has spawned from it.

Anyway I haven't bought a sony product for about 15 years and even then it was my sister buying me a stereo lols.
Cthippo 15th April 2011, 23:35 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by alf-
but as far as i'm aware HBgary is operating albeit with a tarnished reputation though i doubt that matters to its customers as they were pretty seedy themselves. (doesn't fill me with joy that the US government is one such customer)

The HBGary thing was a bit more convoluted than that. It was actually a separate company HBGary Federal that made asses of themselves. The Federal division was spun off so they could do classified government work without putting the parent companies IP into the mix. Anon released HBG Federal's emails but the owners of HBG personally contacted Anon and convinced them not to release their emails. The information was compromised using a combination of SQL injection and a clever social engineering hack by a 15 year old girl.

I support Anon because they try to do the right thing and are very good at bringing attention to issues that would otherwise disappear into the news cycle.
Fierce Guppy 16th April 2011, 00:47 Quote
If it weren't for the fact that I began boycotting Sony months ago for co-sponsoring the "No Pressure" advertisement I'd be out buying some Sony hardware this instant as a way of saying f--- you, Anonymous, you bunch of Che loven' pussies.
Quote:
'This operation is a response to Sony's attempt to deprive their customers of products they bought and therefore own, wholly and completely. Anonymous will not attempt to fight this by following the exact same course of action.''

That's a load of crap on stilts.

Being the owner of something, ~I~ set out the terms and conditions by which I hand it over to another. Nobody has any right to dictate to me the terms and conditions by which I hand over something I own to them. If they break the contract then they have committed an immoral act and if the law is moral they have also acted illegally. Nobody as a moral right to privacy as a way of protecting themselves from the consequences of committing an illegal act. They forfeited that right when the act was committed. So, up the Che Guevara Masturbation Society (aka Anonymous), and each one of you is gonna get a big spanking from your daddy when he finds out what you've been up to.
AstralWanderer 16th April 2011, 01:16 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fierce Guppy
Being the owner of something, ~I~ set out the terms and conditions by which I hand it over to another. Nobody has any right to dictate to me the terms and conditions by which I hand over something I own to them...
Isn't this a contradiction? If a vendor sets out terms and conditions that state you may not transfer ownership without their approval, then they are dictating terms to you - your second sentence indicates you object to this, while your first supports it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fierce Guppy
Nobody as a moral right to privacy as a way of protecting themselves from the consequences of committing an illegal act.
So any whistleblower exposing confidential information for the public good (say, exposing corruption or bribery) should have no protection against reprisal? (anonymity being their only safeguard). Or how about a vulnerable person - say someone who was underage and unaware of the results of their actions - should they be subject to trial-by-mob?

I'm not saying that privacy should be a right in all criminal cases mind - it shouldn't - but there will be situations where it is justified, such as long-term public benefit in the case of whistleblowers.

BTW, welcome to the forums...
Fierce Guppy 16th April 2011, 02:25 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by AstralWanderer
Isn't this a contradiction? If a vendor sets out terms and conditions that state you may not transfer ownership without their approval, then they are dictating terms to you - your second sentence indicates you object to this, while your first supports it.

No, because "hand over" does not necessarily mean "transfer rights of ownership to". A contract may stipulate limitations of use. You either agree to them or not and, if not, the owner and you go your separate ways. That's how moral people conduct themselves.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AstralWanderer
So any whistleblower exposing confidential information for the public good (say, exposing corruption or bribery) should have no protection against reprisal? (anonymity being their only safeguard). Or how about a vulnerable person - say someone who was underage and unaware of the results of their actions - should they be subject to trial-by-mob?

I'm not saying that privacy should be a right in all criminal cases mind - it shouldn't - but there will be situations where it is justified, such as long-term public benefit in the case of whistleblowers.

Yes, that's right. Context is important.
AstralWanderer 16th April 2011, 05:59 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fierce Guppy
...A contract may stipulate limitations of use. You either agree to them or not and, if not, the owner and you go your separate ways. That's how moral people conduct themselves.
And how about software EULAs where you cannot see the terms of the contract until you purchase (and try installing) the software - and where you cannot obtain a refund if you disagree with the EULA since the retailer will not accept the return of opened items? (in Europe, the Distance Selling Regulations, which provide a "right to cancel" for mail, telephone and online purchases specifically exempt video, music and software when the seals have been broken).

In the case of the PS3 (and other consoles), that EULA can change as highlighted here, so even if someone was able to view it before purchase, that would not prevent the vendor from adding "unacceptable" provisions later on (and refusing to accept those changes means losing the ability to play online). Where is the morality in this?
Fierce Guppy 16th April 2011, 07:57 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by AstralWanderer
And how about software EULAs where you cannot see the terms of the contract until you purchase (and try installing) the software - and where you cannot obtain a refund if you disagree with the EULA since the retailer will not accept the return of opened items? (in Europe, the Distance Selling Regulations, which provide a "right to cancel" for mail, telephone and online purchases specifically exempt video, music and software when the seals have been broken).

That would be a reasonable concern if it weren't for the ubiquitous nature of the internet where all this information is readily available. These days it's a sad excuse.

Whoa... big earthquake here in Christchurch, New Zealand. Ken friggin' Ring didn't predict ~this~ one.

Later....

Mag 5.3, 11Km deep, epicentre about 12km from where I live. It felt bigger.

To continue: In regards to music, software, and videos. These days finding ways to feign ignorance is so much harder given that for many years the gist of any copyrighted stuff is "Don't steal it nor make copies of it to give to others". You don't have to scrutinize every EULA in all its detail and from every angle to know this is true of a great deal of music, videos and software.
Quote:
In the case of the PS3 (and other consoles), that EULA can change as highlighted here, so even if someone was able to view it before purchase, that would not prevent the vendor from adding "unacceptable" provisions later on (and refusing to accept those changes means losing the ability to play online). Where is the morality in this?

They'd be absent were in fact these "unacceptable" provisions in breach of the EULA that came with the product when it was purchased. You'd have a legal case against Sony and have the moral high-ground. If you have neither I guess you could always don a black robe and mask and disguise your vocal threats using a monotone computer voice.
TWeaK 16th April 2011, 10:16 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fierce Guppy
That would be a reasonable concern if it weren't for the ubiquitous nature of the internet where all this information is readily available. These days it's a sad excuse.

So all those people who buy on the day of release - before anyone will have seen the EULA or it will have been published anywhere - have no leg to stand on?

And all those people who bought PS3's solely because it had the OtherOS feature should've known that Sony would remove that feature a couple years down the line?
Hovis 16th April 2011, 12:53 Quote
Anonymous is great. Direct action as a means of protest is surprisingly effective (which is why you don't hear much about it, because if people knew it worked we'd all be at it). I mean if you look at the Anonymous campaign against Scientology that was incredibly damaging, cost the organisation millions in lost revenue and legal costs, as well as destroying any crumbs of credibility the group had in the wider world and emboldening others to take on the group. Scientology is now dramatically waning, and that is in no small part due to Anonymous.

So, in short, their methods work. The question is will they have the attention span to work over Sony like they did Scientology, because the Scientology campaign has lasted years.
AstralWanderer 16th April 2011, 19:28 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fierce Guppy
That would be a reasonable concern if it weren't for the ubiquitous nature of the internet where all this information is readily available. These days it's a sad excuse.
Yes, and everyone has Internet access when they're in a shop browsing the games shelves. And of course every EULA is available online...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fierce Guppy
These days finding ways to feign ignorance is so much harder given that for many years the gist of any copyrighted stuff is "Don't steal it nor make copies of it to give to others". You don't have to scrutinize every EULA in all its detail and from every angle to know this is true of a great deal of music, videos and software.
What? Didn't you read the article about the Playstation EULA change giving Sony the right to modify your PS3 at any time? Or the part where they claim ownership of all content sent across the PS3 network?

To take another topical example you have Steam's EULA which gives Valve the right to charge your credit card as it pleases (section 4B), disable your account (subsequently removing access to all purchased content) for anything which "...negatively affects the enjoyment of Steam by other Subscribers." (section 5) and avoid any liability for damage should their system infect you with malware (section 9C).

The "don't copy" is an obvious condition, but very much a starting point for any EULA produced during the last decade. So yes, customers DO need to scrutinise EULAs carefully - and even then the conditions can change. That means the only way to be "moral and legal" by your stipulations is either to forfeit all rights as a consumer - or to boycott the software industry entirely.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fierce Guppy
They'd be absent were in fact these "unacceptable" provisions in breach of the EULA that came with the product when it was purchased. You'd have a legal case against Sony and have the moral high-ground. If you have neither I guess you could always don a black robe and mask and disguise your vocal threats using a monotone computer voice.
Given that the US Ninth Circuit court has recently upheld that EULAs can override the First Sale Doctrine (Vernor vs Autodesk Inc) and thereby most other consumer protection legislation (see the EFF's commentary on this), I take it that you then agree with such protests within the US at least. And in the case of Steam (where Valve can only be sued in a US court) by anyone globally.
TWeaK 17th April 2011, 02:28 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by AstralWanderer
And in the case of Steam (where Valve can only be sued in a US court) by anyone globally.

I've always wondered about this: would Steam be able to do that? Surely because the purchase was in another country, such as the UK, and charged in GBP with prices not only converted but adapted for the market, then it would fall under consumer purchasing rights and those would trump the EULA. As far as I understand it, there's no precedent in the UK that says the EULA terms are necessarily legally binding and/or excluded from consumer proctection acts.
AstralWanderer 17th April 2011, 03:01 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by TWeaK
...As far as I understand it, there's no precedent in the UK that says the EULA terms are necessarily legally binding and/or excluded from consumer proctection acts.
You're almost certainly right - EULAs wouldn't be able to trump consumer protection legislation. So anyone falling foul of "EULA abuse" by Valve should have no problem securing a judgement in a UK (or EU) court.

The problem is enforcing any such judgment - Valve have no EU presence so there's nothing for such a court to act against (the EU Competition Commission note this in their response (PDF) to a complaint about Valve's European pricing). In contrast, Valve can (and frequently do) block access to customers' entire Steam collection at whim.
Vo0Ds 18th April 2011, 09:48 Quote
I've a good friend who works in a Sony store... they don't sell PS3's.
ArcAngeL 18th April 2011, 16:12 Quote
Meh, piracy. face it do you really want the device for "backup" purposes?

When you buy a digital disc of any sort, treat it with respect, if it gets scratched then you were not treating it with respect, your foul your loss, the need to back up a disk is trivial and a BS answer for saying you want pirated games.

If you bought a brand new car, and crashed it, were you able to back it up? so you could drive it again?

Sony are protecting their investors, and their gaming software companies, against piracy to prevent game software companies from receiving the appropriate sales for the games they developed. undoubtably sony gets a cut from all sales of games, but unless soley written by sony, then the cut, mould be minor. IS the overall gaming industry, preventing them from moving forward. The games and hardware don't just create themselves, they dont make invisible money to feed their employees.

I recall the PS1 go chiped, religiously around the world, and cost the industry millions, and there was also a sega saturn (i think it was called), that also suffered at the hand of microchipping, and the nintendo wii, all it does is provent the next big system to become availible quicker.Or in Sega's case, basically brankrupted their failing console industry.

There may have been a time in my life where as a child, i was unable to purchase software, now i purchase everything. Why? cause a few hours working saves me a few hours trying to get it for free. The quality is unmatched also, and comes with far less viruses.

Anoyomouses actions is purely ignorant and petty, the kids hacking the ps3, knew what they were doing, knew they shouldn't of been doing it, knew their would be consequences, just didn't think they would get caught.
ObeyTheCreed 19th April 2011, 05:43 Quote
What Sony doesn't understand is that it's impossible to stop pirating or modding, there's always gonna be a hacker out there that's better than the last one so they can break the code again. The only thing Sony is doing by banning people is to alienate them from Sony's products. I got so tired of the crappy (in my opinin) products that i haven't even used anything made by Sony since the 360 came out. Now i'm not agreeing with Anonymous, i think that pirating a game that people spent time and money to create and the depriving these same people of the money the worked for is wrong, plain and simple.
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