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Sony to track Geohot website users

Sony to track Geohot website users

Sony has been granted access to YouTube, Google and Twitter to gather IPs of suspected jailbreakers.

Sony has been granted access to George 'Geohot' Hotz's website in order to obtain the IP addresses of those who have downloaded Geohot's PlayStation 3 jailbreak.

The subpoena was granted by Magistrate Joseph Spero as part of the lawsuit that Sony is current bringing against the hacker.

The order calls for Hotz's host, Bluehost, to disclose all 'documents reproducing all server logs, IP address logs, account information, account access records and application or registration forms'.

Sony has also been granted access to Google, YouTube and Twitter, according to Wired.

The Google access will be used to gather the logs for Hotz's blog, geohotps.3.blogspot.com. The YouTube access will be used to identify all who watched Hotz's 'Jailbroken PS3 3.55 with Homebrew' video, while the Twitter access will force full disclosure regarding Hotz's own account and all the identities that are associated with it.

Sony has already begun banning the PSN accounts of those it suspects of jailbreaking their PS3s, according to Eurogamer.

Let us know your thoughts in the forums.

61 Comments

Discuss in the forums Reply
mclean007 7th March 2011, 10:57 Quote
*If* (and that's a fairly big if) it's illegal to jail break a PS3, there may be an argument in favour of Sony being granted access to the IP addresses of people who downloaded the hack, but on what possible grounds have they been given access to YouTube and Blogspot logs? Last time I checked there's nothing illegal about watching a clip on YouTube or reading a blog, and it's a pretty flagrant breach of privacy for Google to be required to hand over its server logs. I appreciate that this is being used only to gather evidence gainst Hotz, but nevertheless it seems to go way beyond the limits of proportionality. Given that many (most?) of us have some kind of user account (gmail, YouTube, etc.) that lets Google identify us personally, I wonder if the information handed over to Sony will extend beyond just IP addresses. Surely Google should be allowed (and required) to anonymise its server logs before handing them over?
outlawaol 7th March 2011, 10:57 Quote
"suspects"

So, if I go to youtube, twitter, google, or to his site I am a suspect....

Good grief I hate big legal battles that end like this... I hope it somehow bites Sony in the butt... perhaps they'll ban so many legit users that they'll simply stop this nonsense...
liratheal 7th March 2011, 10:57 Quote
..Am I the only one tempted to get myself onto those logs, despite having a perfectly vanilla PS3, and see if I get banned from PSN?
outlawaol 7th March 2011, 10:59 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by liratheal
..Am I the only one tempted to get myself onto those logs, despite having a perfectly vanilla PS3, and see if I get banned from PSN?

No, you are not! I say lets do it and when sony needs us to send in the PS3's for 'checking' we can get new ones! Woo! :D
ThirtyQuidKid 7th March 2011, 11:05 Quote
Scare tactics and an oppertunity to get some kind of "internet policing" up and running. Big Brother making an attempt to look into all of our lives in minute detail.

It's not a case of if Hotz gets prosecuted it is a case of what happens after......
wuyanxu 7th March 2011, 11:09 Quote
coming up: all our internet access are logged and recorded. oh wait....


coming up: all electronic products sold will have a chip that can be used to remotely brick your product.
Instagib 7th March 2011, 11:11 Quote
What if; hypothetically, an individual views and downloads these files; for a friend say, but does not actually own a PS3 at present? Will this entitle them to a ban should they get a PS3 in the future?
Instagib 7th March 2011, 11:12 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by wuyanxu

coming up: all electronic products sold will have a chip that can be used to remotely brick your product.

I thought SandyBridge already has this feature?
Fizzban 7th March 2011, 11:56 Quote
I think Sony have a bloody cheek. You buy something, it's yours to do with as you like. I can't see they have any right to peoples IP addresses. Either they need to make hacking consoles illegal or they need to write in BIG letters on their products that we are not buying them, but renting them.

Things like this piss me off! Pretty glad I don't own a PS3 tbh.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Instagib
I thought SandyBridge already has this feature?

:) +rep
Picarro 7th March 2011, 12:02 Quote
If I was GeoHot I'd simply encrypt all my data with TrueCrypt and give Sony the finger. The maximum penalty he can then receive is withholding information and that doesn't exactly give a huge fine or multiple years in jail.
julianmartin 7th March 2011, 12:02 Quote
If you buy a car, you are perfectly entitled to modify it as you see fit, as long as it qualifies for relevant safety regulations for other road users (if it is being used on the road).

If you buy a PS3, you cannot do jack and if you try Sony will revoke the online features of said PS3.

Unbelievable.
Spuzzell 7th March 2011, 12:05 Quote
Oh for Gods sake. This is ridiculous.

Cue the entirety of /b/ downloading the firmware to annoy the lawyers.

I might too, and I've never owned a PS3.
Bede 7th March 2011, 12:10 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by julianmartin
If you buy a car, you are perfectly entitled to modify it as you see fit, as long as it qualifies for relevant safety regulations for other road users (if it is being used on the road).

If you buy a PS3, you cannot do jack and if you try Sony will revoke the online features of said PS3.

Unbelievable.

+1. This is what I cannot believe about it - they sell you hardware, it seems reasonable to let you do as you please with it. That said, all this crap is in their EULA, which no one ever reads. Time to start reading contracts before you accept them...
Bad_cancer 7th March 2011, 12:12 Quote
*For note I do not have a ps3.*

What really pisses me off to no end is that if you happened to watch the youtube video by clicking on a link or being routed from another video, you are going to get banned?

Its like watching someone commit a crime on tv and getting arrested!

What the ### is that mentality? Should this be legal?
Cupboard 7th March 2011, 12:14 Quote
So, is there anywhere you can download this from, get tracked and then put in a naughty pen? I don't have a PS3 but I now really want to wind Sony up.
Unknownsock 7th March 2011, 12:34 Quote
What makes me laugh is, if you go look at these stories on say a typical gaming site such as kotaku.
Everyone is on Sony's side...
gnutonian 7th March 2011, 12:38 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by wuyanxu
coming up: all our internet access are logged and recorded. oh wait....
Already here: HADOPI (own opinionated link) logging your every move. I think the UK Digital Economy thingy wants to do the same thing. And so is every other nation. But your "oh wait" already implied knowledge of these things ;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by wuyanxu
coming up: all electronic products sold will have a chip that can be used to remotely brick your product.
Shite, even the "open" Google phone was able to remotely remove malware from users' phones. And remember when Amazon removed books from the Kindle?

As I've often said IRL (but as of yet, no one apart from the other half has agreed): we have a choice today. Either we choose to educate ourselves (not us, the geeks; but "us", society - i.e. the dumb-asses who get confused by "them computery things 'n ****") and free our knowledge and technology - and then our species will end up in Star Trek: The Next Generation (and everyone will have a personal Patrick Stewart to narrate their daily lives).
Alternatively, we go the iPhone/Android App Market/etc way, and we end up in Idiocracy". It makes me so ****ing depressed, knowing that we're going to end up in "Idiocracy". Thank God I'll be dead before that happens to our species.

I'm sorry to be the downer in this topic, but this is what tech is supposed to be about: advancement. Our bodies advance temporarily. Tech advances as long as our species does. And, as a member of the human species, I think I've got the right to care for its future.

Shite, we're so ****ed, aren't we? People type "facebook" into google.com to get to facebook.com, for ****'s sake. If I had a gun permit (working on it!) I'd shoot myself now. Give it another year thanks to bureaucracy...! :)


[edit]

I know this may seem like an off-topic rant; but look at how much power Sony has been granted by the US legal system. It's just insane. It's not like geohotz attacked or stabbed anyone. He broke some code. He is not a danger to society. So, what the hell?

Once there are no more murders, rapes, attacks, etc (you know, real crimes) .... then I will agree to our "justice" system cracking down on non-commercial copyright infringement. Before that, I think we've got a lot of taxpayers' money to spend on chasing down those who actually hurt society, rather than those who potentially may have slightly hurt a multi-billion dollar corporation.
TheUn4seen 7th March 2011, 12:51 Quote
AFAIK Sony is doing it to prove that Geohot made the hack for people from Northern California (because there were people from that area downloading it and watching the vid - that's hell of a shitty logic, but that's american law for ya) to keep the case on west coast, where they seem to have better chances of winning.

All in all, Sony seems to be completely detached from reality; I look at them and I see a stupid, badly raised kid screaming because someone dared to touch his toys. Granted, it's a society of idiots and i-users that made them so arrogant - but that's no excuse. I'm personally sick of a company that bullies its customers, first thing tomorrow I'm going to return the Vaio I just bought and Sony proudly goes on my never-buy-from-them list.

Oh, and that's some good reading on Sony's track record of pissing off their customer base:
CLICKY
wuyanxu 7th March 2011, 13:40 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by gnutonian
Shite, even the "open" Google phone was able to remotely remove malware from users' phones. And remember when Amazon removed books from the Kindle?

nothing remotely brick devices yet. those software blocks can be removed by jailbreaking, which is the problem in question here: should people be allowed to jailbreak/root the products they bought?

i am an iphone jailbreaker since original iphone jailbreak first came out. and if it wasn't for the possibility of jailbreak, i'd have never bought the Apple iphone.

Idiocracy is a great film that reflects our grim future. it's already starting now with two major devices of ways approach technology: normal route to be locked in a cell made by big brands; or jailbreak route that perhaps only 5% of users will use.





it makes me wonder, how many people who side with Sony have done any form of technical attempts at hacking something interesting into something else?

during the weekend, i installed SickBeard into my NAS box using Putty, IPKG install and git, along with Transmission and SABnzbd+. how many Sony supporters actually know what any of those mean?
spectre456 7th March 2011, 13:41 Quote
The subtitle of this newspost is taken out of context.

Sony doesn't want the IP addresses so that they can ban anyone who watched his videos or frequented his sites. The want them so that they can determine

"how rampant the access to and use of these circumvention devices has been in California in order to rebut Mr. Hotz's suggestion that his illicit conduct was not aimed at the forum state."

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/03/05/geohot_visitors_unmasked/

It appears they are trying to make this a federal case as opposed to one soley based in New Jersey (where hotz lives). to do this they need to show how far reaching hotz info goes.
carpetmonster 7th March 2011, 14:25 Quote
Sony have been trodden on by so many people in the industry it has led them to take out their angst on the consumer.
Sheiken 7th March 2011, 14:53 Quote
The only thing that has come out of this is that Geohot has become even more known and famous! Way to go to silence him Sony, nice work!

They shouldnt have done anything! Most people wouldnt even know that it is possible to play pirated games then!
Whirly 7th March 2011, 17:05 Quote
The most interesting thing about this decision, IMO, is that it shows just how out of touch with technology and the internet most courts and judges are.

Looking at it properly, a judge just gave a corporation the right to spy on millions of private citizens who have not broken any law. Let's be straight, it's the equivalent of Abbey National being given the details of everyone who watched a TV news report that showed CCTV footage of their bank being robbed.

Sony has no reasonable grounds for a civil or criminal case against any of the people that watched the video. And yet a judge has given them access to information that could identify those people. By doing so s/he has shown so little understanding of the modern world and the rights of the individual it is simply astounding. And deeply worrying.

As for the whole Sony vs Geohot case it is a case of a rich corporation looking to win by financial attrition. By ensuring the case is heard thousands of miles away from where Geohot lives they hope to add massively to his legal bills. It's not a new strategy to win by default through ensuring the other party can't afford to stay in the game. The very fact they seem so determined to do so says a lot about their actual belief in their chances of winning - if they were sure they would win they'd be happy to fight in any court and they'd be looking to do it as soon as possible.

However, the underhand tactics may backfire on them. Geohot recently opened a legal fund so people could donate. He closed it only a few days later because he had enough for the time being. The short timespan suggests that there are enough people willing to donate that Sony will never be able to out spend this defendant.

All in all I think that if Sony continues down this road they will end up losing far more money from the damage they do to their own reputation than they ever would have lost from a few pirates.
Phil Rhodes 7th March 2011, 18:37 Quote
Solution:

-everyone- here, if you don't own a PS3, goes to the site and registers for the software, downloads it, views the video...

...that'll keep them amused for a while.

P
shanky887614 7th March 2011, 18:55 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whirly
The most interesting thing about this decision, IMO, is that it shows just how out of touch with technology and the internet most courts and judges are.

Looking at it properly, a judge just gave a corporation the right to spy on millions of private citizens who have not broken any law. Let's be straight, it's the equivalent of Abbey National being given the details of everyone who watched a TV news report that showed CCTV footage of their bank being robbed.

Sony has no reasonable grounds for a civil or criminal case against any of the people that watched the video. And yet a judge has given them access to information that could identify those people. By doing so s/he has shown so little understanding of the modern world and the rights of the individual it is simply astounding. And deeply worrying.

As for the whole Sony vs Geohot case it is a case of a rich corporation looking to win by financial attrition. By ensuring the case is heard thousands of miles away from where Geohot lives they hope to add massively to his legal bills. It's not a new strategy to win by default through ensuring the other party can't afford to stay in the game. The very fact they seem so determined to do so says a lot about their actual belief in their chances of winning - if they were sure they would win they'd be happy to fight in any court and they'd be looking to do it as soon as possible.

However, the underhand tactics may backfire on them. Geohot recently opened a legal fund so people could donate. He closed it only a few days later because he had enough for the time being. The short timespan suggests that there are enough people willing to donate that Sony will never be able to out spend this defendant.

All in all I think that if Sony continues down this road they will end up losing far more money from the damage they do to their own reputation than they ever would have lost from a few pirates.

coreactually it seems they gave sony complete accses to youtube logs which means millions and millions of people's viewing habits

this is going too far, courts shoudlnt have the power to force soemone like google to reveal information on every person from many differnet countries
HourBeforeDawn 7th March 2011, 19:16 Quote
so I shall download it at a public location then lol.

Also this just seems like a huge invasion of like personal rights, in terms of privacy but hey whats privacy anymore with the invention of the internet lol.
Whirly 7th March 2011, 19:39 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by shanky887614
coreactually it seems they gave sony complete accses to youtube logs which means millions and millions of people's viewing habits

this is going too far, courts shoudlnt have the power to force soemone like google to reveal information on every person from many differnet countries

Indeed, the amount of personal information Sony has been given access to is breathtaking.

I have a PS3 and I have no intention of jailbreaking it simply because I have no use or time for homebrew (and as for piracy, I just wait until the game is less than a tenner, so there is little point). But Sony's over reaction has got me very interested in what is going on and now I tend to keep a weather eye on the latest jailbreaking news.

The impression I get is that while some hackers are frightened of Sony, others are reacting like
angry wasps.

I'm not entirely sure what Sony hopes to achieve here. The lawsuits and legal threats (even police raids) may make the homebrew community take a step back for a little while but do they really think it's going to stop the pirates? Your typical home pirate already knows s/he is breaking the law so Geohot being sued or a PSN ban is going to make no difference to their decision to play MW3 for nothing. And as for the hackers that make piracy possible, it is big business for some. A law suit or ten is going to make no difference to them when there is cash to be made. And once the hacks are created, controlling them on the internet is like trying to hold water in a sieve.

A thousand years ago King Cnut had the kind of wisdom that Sony seems to lack.
gnutonian 7th March 2011, 19:59 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by wuyanxu
which is the problem in question here: should people be allowed to jailbreak/root the products they bought?
Hah, I totally forgot to comment on the original story! But I can put it rather simply as a response to your above quote: totally, effing, yes. You buy it, you own it.

Sony are *******s for doing what they're doing - but this is the same company that put a rootkit on an audio CD so yeah, what did we expect from them?
fuus 7th March 2011, 20:31 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Instagib
I thought SandyBridge already has this feature?

+rep again,

Sony seriously need to grow up and realise they can't stop it, and should spend the R&D money on new products
Gradius 7th March 2011, 21:21 Quote
I careless BIG time! $ony can ban me all they want, I never access that online-crap thing at all. ;-)
Gradius 7th March 2011, 21:24 Quote
1) Geo's shows the way.
2) $ony cries a lot and try to scared us with that scare-media tentative.
3) Arrrrr appear on PS3 and enjoy the world.
4) ??????????
5) PROFIT!
blink 7th March 2011, 21:34 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Instagib
I thought SandyBridge already has this feature?

Has there ever been a list released that states which SB chips have this "anti-theft technology in the vPro-equipped chips?" What is vPro and is it a "feature" found in all of their processors?
Fizzban 7th March 2011, 21:38 Quote
So does this mean we can sue them for installing root kits on our PCs without our knowledge? I know thats old..but its more wrong than what they are currently whineing about.

Also I foresee people using proxies..or a pen drive at their local Library.
Whirly 7th March 2011, 22:18 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fizzban
Also I foresee people using proxies..or a pen drive at their local Library.

The idea that IP addresses identify actual users is a fallacy that has been accepted by ignorant (in the true sense of the word) courts for far too long. Only now is that assumption starting to be challenged.

It is a sad endorsement of our legal and political system to say that the vast majority of those in powerful positions don't understand the technology and have little desire to do so, despite their role in policing it. It sometimes seems that there are those who remain deliberately ignorant. Dare I suggest that it is often in their financial interest to be that way when there are such rich vested interest groups looking to grease the wheels of government? After all, it's harder to take an all expenses paid "fact finding" trip or a political donation from someone who you know is lying. Better to remain blissfully ignorant.

(Yes, I AM cynical about government and the political process. But can anyone prove I shouldn't be?)
Sloth 7th March 2011, 22:39 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unknownsock
What makes me laugh is, if you go look at these stories on say a typical gaming site such as kotaku.
Everyone is on Sony's side...
I'm on Sony's side, if any side. I've used my PS3 exactly as intended and loved it and never needed anything more.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Instagib
I thought SandyBridge already has this feature?
About the chipet flaw? Seen so much misunderstanding over that that I can't even laugh at jokes about it anymore. :(
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whirly
(Yes, I AM cynical about government and the political process. But can anyone prove I shouldn't be?)
A fellow cynic here, cynical of popular cynicism. Take your comfortable first world lifestyle and all of the laws which routinely save your ass from anarchy as proof.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whirly
Indeed, the amount of personal information Sony has been given access to is breathtaking.

I have a PS3 and I have no intention of jailbreaking it simply because I have no use or time for homebrew (and as for piracy, I just wait until the game is less than a tenner, so there is little point). But Sony's over reaction has got me very interested in what is going on and now I tend to keep a weather eye on the latest jailbreaking news.

The impression I get is that while some hackers are frightened of Sony, others are reacting like
angry wasps.

I'm not entirely sure what Sony hopes to achieve here. The lawsuits and legal threats (even police raids) may make the homebrew community take a step back for a little while but do they really think it's going to stop the pirates? Your typical home pirate already knows s/he is breaking the law so Geohot being sued or a PSN ban is going to make no difference to their decision to play MW3 for nothing. And as for the hackers that make piracy possible, it is big business for some. A law suit or ten is going to make no difference to them when there is cash to be made. And once the hacks are created, controlling them on the internet is like trying to hold water in a sieve.

A thousand years ago King Cnut had the kind of wisdom that Sony seems to lack.
This is why I say "if any" above. Are they over-reacting? Maybe. Does it have any impact on me as a non-jailbroken PS3 owner? Not at all. The anti-cynicist cynic speaking again, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people making such a fuss don't even own a jail-broken PS3 and are simply zealous crusaders out to protect our fundamental civil rights: Life, Liberty and The Pursuit of Video Games to counter Sony's money-driven zeal (Capitalism, ho!).
confusis 7th March 2011, 22:50 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by blink
Has there ever been a list released that states which SB chips have this "anti-theft technology in the vPro-equipped chips?" What is vPro and is it a "feature" found in all of their processors?

http://www.intel.com/technology/vpro/
5 seconds of teh google will save one's life one day..
Toploaded 7th March 2011, 22:57 Quote
Other then bad press I'm not really sure what Sony are trying to achieve. I don't really care that they are fighting the unwinnable war, but I question if it's good business sense for them to do so and worth the investment.
dark_avenger 7th March 2011, 23:27 Quote
If Sony hadn't of removed the "Other OS" feature then this hack would never have been needed. They created the problem in the first place by pissing off the hackers.

As for tracking IP's just use a proxy or VPN, it's childs play theses days.....
RichCreedy 7th March 2011, 23:29 Quote
sony has every right to ban people who have jailbroken their ps3 from accessing sony servers/networks. they make it clear in the terms and conditions that if you modify your ps3 software in anyway, then they will remove access to sony services.

it's the same old, i'll sign a contract or agree to t&c's then bitch like hell when i break the contract/t&c's and get screwed.
deadsea 8th March 2011, 01:28 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichCreedy
sony has every right to ban people who have jailbroken their ps3 from accessing sony servers/networks. they make it clear in the terms and conditions that if you modify your ps3 software in anyway, then they will remove access to sony services.

it's the same old, i'll sign a contract or agree to t&c's then bitch like hell when i break the contract/t&c's and get screwed.

You do realise that their banning process appears to be based on one having viewed the video/blog/etc on how to jailbreak? That's about the equivalent of arresting every male out there for being a rapist just because they have the necessary "tools". Doesn't seem quite right to me...
spectre456 8th March 2011, 01:38 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by deadsea
You do realise that their banning process appears to be based on one having viewed the video/blog/etc on how to jailbreak? That's about the equivalent of arresting every male out there for being a rapist just because they have the necessary "tools". Doesn't seem quite right to me...

Sony hasn't banned anyone for that nor will they. How do you ban people that view videos on their PC? Your analogy is also riddled with holes. Nobody signs T&C agreement before they get their "tools".

I agree with Sony pouncing on this security hole. The PS3 is sold at a loss, so that means they have to recoup the sales through games. Guess what happens when people pirate games?
Aracos 8th March 2011, 01:46 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichCreedy
sony has every right to ban people who have jailbroken their ps3 from accessing sony servers/networks. they make it clear in the terms and conditions that if you modify your ps3 software in anyway, then they will remove access to sony services.

it's the same old, i'll sign a contract or agree to t&c's then bitch like hell when i break the contract/t&c's and get screwed.

This is nothing to do with losing access to sony services, this is about the bizarre understanding of courts that decide they are allowed to give sony access to millions of people private information and in the case of youtube people viewing habbits, that is wrong on so many different privacy levels, this issue has went a lot further than bitching because he broke the terms and conditions!

EDIT: Anyone else notice geohotps.3.blogspot.com doesn't appear to be a valid blog?
spectre456 8th March 2011, 03:34 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by storm20200
This is nothing to do with losing access to sony services, this is about the bizarre understanding of courts that decide they are allowed to give sony access to millions of people private information and in the case of youtube people viewing habbits, that is wrong on so many different privacy levels, this issue has went a lot further than bitching because he broke the terms and conditions!

EDIT: Anyone else notice geohotps.3.blogspot.com doesn't appear to be a valid blog?

an IP address is about as private as the t-shirt you wear to go out.
Toploaded 8th March 2011, 05:32 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by spectre456

The PS3 is sold at a loss, so that means they have to recoup the sales through games. Guess what happens when people pirate games?

I'm not sure that's true anymore, I think they now profit from each unit sold. This effort of theirs could even be an attempt for them to try and sell more consoles to try and make the most of the situation. Some people (like me) dabble in the idea of having more then one PS3: to have a console, streamer and Bluray in the living room and another room. One might theoretically be more tempted by the thought of having one to run emulators and various homebrew on, and simply keep it off the PSN network, whist using the other for online gaming needs.
wafflesomd 8th March 2011, 06:15 Quote
Sony hasn't banned anyone for that nor will they. How do you ban people that view videos on their PC? [/QUOTE]

This.

They won't ban you unless they detect that you are running an altered firmware.

Not like it matters since you can unban yourself.
fluxtatic 8th March 2011, 07:15 Quote
If I thought it would make a difference, I would put his videos on repeat on as many PCs as I could find. However, it won't matter. In other news, screw Sony. Aside from the PSX/PS2, their quality has been on a serious slide for a while now. Aside from that, this is just the latest in a long, long string of things that should have pissed off enough people that Sony should be bankrupt by now. For my own part, it was the rootkit incident (the original blog post by the guy that found it was amazing, btw.) After that, no more new Sony products in my house. People need to take a f*cking stand when companies pull sh*t like this. Instead, even the people ranting and raving over Sony's evil ways today will be in line at Gamestop next week stuffing more money in their coffers. There's a lot of places I won't shop/brands I won't buy now, but I don't think I know anyone else IRL that will actually take a stand. As a slightly OT example, Spike Lee has made it clear many times that he's not interested in a white audience, yet white people continue to see his 'joints'. He doesn't want your money! Stop giving it to him! Obviously Sony is more interested in bad PR than producing quality product. Show them the end result of that decision. If you're really on George Hotz' side, stop buying Sony products and get in touch with them and let them know why. Seems pointless, like writing to your Senator/MP, but at least less hypocritical than ranting about how bad Sony is while you've got a Six-Axis controller in your hands.
AstralWanderer 8th March 2011, 08:09 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Picarro
If I was GeoHot I'd simply encrypt all my data with TrueCrypt and give Sony the finger...
Wouldn't really help in this case - it is the ISPs providing the site's connectivity that are having to divulge the details.

I'd expect this sort of mass snooping to increase in future - of course, proxies and anonymity networks like Tor would stop such casual investigation of people's online activities.

Boycotting Sony (as well as Nintendo and Microsoft's XBox - they're little better) is a Good Thing here and I've been doing so for several years.
PedoBear 8th March 2011, 09:15 Quote
I think what some people are missing, the ones mainly that say I do not hack my Console.

Geohot did not I repeat did not release anything that would allow piracy, and the cheating that was happening on psn was already going on.
Point 2. This is more about your right to do what you want with your own Machines. I agree that if you use the PSN then your console should be perma-banned because you have broken their TOS that is what you agree to when you click accept that any breach of the PSN is a bannable offence.

I have a PS3 use it mainly for media use got few orig games but I am a pc Monkey by heart, I have modded my ps3 and I have never even used the PSN once, If Sony win this case it will have major implications because we know how clever lawyers and big companies are at wording there TOS. This would be like buying a car and being told by Ford you can only use their partners tyres window wash and air freshener. I think we're too lazy and really do not care how much consumer rights were allowing to be taken away from us. The right to choose to do what we want with our own products.
lacuna 8th March 2011, 12:51 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by julianmartin
If you buy a car, you are perfectly entitled to modify it as you see fit, as long as it qualifies for relevant safety regulations for other road users (if it is being used on the road).

If you buy a PS3, you cannot do jack and if you try Sony will revoke the online features of said PS3.

Unbelievable.

Thats a fairly hopeless analogy. If you modify a car the manufacturers warranty would be immediately voided, they are often voided if you don't get it serviced it at the dealership! Forget about using it as much as you want either -vehicle warranties generally run out after 100,000 miles (even Vauxhalls 'lifetime' warranty!). If you modify your car and don't inform the insurance company your insurance would be invalidated -get caught without valid insurance and you risk losing the car.

I think losing access to the PSN for breaching the T&C's is really quite acceptable, especially in comparison to car ownership!
deadsea 8th March 2011, 14:35 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by spectre456
Quote:
Originally Posted by deadsea
You do realise that their banning process appears to be based on one having viewed the video/blog/etc on how to jailbreak? That's about the equivalent of arresting every male out there for being a rapist just because they have the necessary "tools". Doesn't seem quite right to me...

Sony hasn't banned anyone for that nor will they. How do you ban people that view videos on their PC? Your analogy is also riddled with holes. Nobody signs T&C agreement before they get their "tools".

I agree with Sony pouncing on this security hole. The PS3 is sold at a loss, so that means they have to recoup the sales through games. Guess what happens when people pirate games?


Ah yes, missed that line where they mentioned that they could not confirm if the ban was based on actual or suspected jailbreaking.

If actual, that's perfectly acceptable of course. T&C and all that. But still, the decision to sell at a loss is a non issue with respect to what's an appropriate reaction. After all, no one forced them to do so. And more than 1 army/scientific department have bought ps3 with absolutely no intention of ever buying a single game. We don't see Sony kicking up a fuss about that.
spectre456 8th March 2011, 15:34 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by deadsea
Ah yes, missed that line where they mentioned that they could not confirm if the ban was based on actual or suspected jailbreaking.

If actual, that's perfectly acceptable of course. T&C and all that. But still, the decision to sell at a loss is a non issue with respect to what's an appropriate reaction. After all, no one forced them to do so. And more than 1 army/scientific department have bought ps3 with absolutely no intention of ever buying a single game. We don't see Sony kicking up a fuss about that.


Sony isn't going to ban anybody with those IP addresses that it pulls. The article has a very misleading subtitle that was taken out of context. i addressed this in a previous post as well.

Why do people feel that they have to jailbreak a console? I mean, really and truly what is the bloody point? Homebrew? The PC has more homebrew and better homebrew than the PS3 by far. Not to mention that it's even easier on the PC and the community is larger.

Sony is learning from its past mistakes (PSP piracy and "harmless" jailbreaking) and trying to keep the PS3 as locked down as possible.
mclean007 8th March 2011, 16:39 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by spectre456
Sony isn't going to ban anybody with those IP addresses that it pulls. The article has a very misleading subtitle that was taken out of context. i addressed this in a previous post as well.
Good one spectre456 - thanks for pointing this out and hopefully bringing a bit of sanity back to the thread. No one has suggested Sony is going to ban people based on the IP addresses Google has to provide of users who viewed the YouTube video or read the blog, or those of people who downloaded the hack. The purpose of the disclosure is to allow Sony to build a case against Hotz. That having been said, it is still, in my view, entirely disproportionate to allow Sony free access to unredacted personally identifiable information about individual users and their browsing habits.
RichCreedy 8th March 2011, 21:16 Quote
i think the access to google records is so they can say look at the potential numbers involved, if every one who watched the video, actually jailbreaked their ps3, potentially millions, proof would by individual ip numbers, not 1 person from 1 ip address viewing it 10 times
spectre456 8th March 2011, 21:59 Quote
I'll just quote myself again since a lot of people seem to just post without looking at the state of the discussion:
Quote:
Originally Posted by spectre456
The subtitle of this newspost is taken out of context.

Sony doesn't want the IP addresses so that they can ban anyone who watched his videos or frequented his sites. The want them so that they can determine

"how rampant the access to and use of these circumvention devices has been in California in order to rebut Mr. Hotz's suggestion that his illicit conduct was not aimed at the forum state."

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/03...tors_unmasked/

It appears they are trying to make this a federal case as opposed to one soley based in New Jersey (where hotz lives). to do this they need to show how far reaching hotz info goes.
Cthippo 9th March 2011, 00:10 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by fluxtatic
Aside from that, this is just the latest in a long, long string of things that should have pissed off enough people that Sony should be bankrupt by now. For my own part, it was the rootkit incident (the original blog post by the guy that found it was amazing, btw.) After that, no more new Sony products in my house. People need to take a f*cking stand when companies pull sh*t like this.

Pretty much this.

There is a reason my next camera will be a Nikon and not a Sony, despite meaning I need to buy all new glass.

Is there anything to stop someone from creating an alternative Playstation network? That would seem a logical next step to emasculate Sony's power over their customers.
deadsea 9th March 2011, 00:33 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cthippo
Is there anything to stop someone from creating an alternative Playstation network? That would seem a logical next step to emasculate Sony's power over their customers.

Sony's lawyers? Bet they could frame it under a DMCA violation and have the servers taken down.
Kilmoor 9th March 2011, 10:40 Quote
What makes a PlayStation different in an iPhone in regard to jailbreaking? The ruling should apply...
Cthippo 9th March 2011, 13:14 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilmoor
What makes a PlayStation different in an iPhone in regard to jailbreaking? The ruling should apply...

I'm not sure it doesn't.

The USPTO said that you can legally jailbreak your phone, they didn't say that Apple had to keep letting you use the appstore. The difference here is that Apple doesn't own the network your phone works on whereas Sony do own the PSN.

To extend the phone analogy though, I still don't see why an alternative network couldn't be created. Can Sony claim it's illegal for you to connect to any other network but theirs with their device? I'm sure they would try.
ObeyTheCreed 9th March 2011, 14:19 Quote
This is why so many people have 360's instead of PS3's atleast with an xbox jailbreak you don't get your dang xbox logged outta xbox live. Sony is basically throwing a sh*t fit because some of its customers starting jailbreaking and playing around with its products. The iphone was jailbroken, xbox was, and every other console or gaming console from MS has been jailbroken, get the f*ck over it Sony! Jeez, if this is the result of a little code being broken (probably not so little but i'm not a programmer), then what's gonna happen when their next console comes out and it's jailbroken in 24 hours. You can't stop a hacker from hacking into that console unless it's made of steel and even then the more persisten ones will probably still get into it (blow torches are sure useful :D).
Lazarus Dark 10th March 2011, 03:46 Quote
I stopped using or promoting the use of any Sony products the day we found out they put rootkits on thier music cd's. I'm sorry, but that was a line they crossed that I can NEVER forget. This is just proof that I was right to ditch all Sony, they truly are evil.
AstralWanderer 11th March 2011, 10:54 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by
This dates back a couple of weeks, but shows a pattern in Sony's behaviour - seems that their European division can be just as w*nktastic as their American cousins...

PlayStation hacker defiantly posts 'bible' following police raid
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