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Ubisoft's DRM servers go down, games unplayable

Ubisoft's DRM servers go down, games unplayable

Ubisoft's new always-online DRM has been brought to it's knees by server problems that stop games running.

Ubisoft's new always-online DRM system has been broken for the last ten hours or so, preventing legitimate customers from being able to play new PC games Assassin's Creed 2 and Silent Hunter 5.

The new system requires players to always be online when they play games, even in singleplayer, or try to save their progress. With the servers down though, nobody can play at all and fans are spewing their outrage into the official forums.

Although Ubisoft promised when it announced the system that it would monitor servers 24/7 and ensure that there was constant support, customers have been cut off from content for 10 hours and Ubisoft's response from Community Managers seems slow-moving.

I don’t have any clear information on what the issue is since I’m not in the office, but clearly the extended downtime and lengthy login issues are unacceptable, particularly as I’ve been told these servers are constantly monitored," said Ubi rep Ubi.Vigil on the official forums, via RPS.

"I’ll do what I can to get more information on what the issue is here first thing tomorrow and push for a resolution and assurance this won’t happen in the future. I realise that’s not ideal but there’s only so much I can do on a weekend as I’m not directly involved with the server side of this system.

Ubisoft's position isn't strengthened by the fact that the new DRM has reportedly been cracked within a few days, with unconfirmed reports of workarounds for pirated versions of the games meaning that only legitimate customers are losing out.

Ubisoft has commented that "exceptional demand" has toppled the servers and said that players trying to start a game may have problems, while those who are currently playing should be fine. What's concerning is that Ubisoft didn't anticipate this "exceptional demand" over the launch weeks for two big PC games and the first real test of the system.

Many sites and fans are now calling for Ubisoft to abandon this DRM method and apologise to fans. Let us know your thoughts in the forums.

144 Comments

Discuss in the forums Reply
tron 8th March 2010, 12:53 Quote
Good. It serves them right

DRM
popcornuk1983 8th March 2010, 12:55 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by tron
Good. It serves them right

DRM

+1 to that
matee 8th March 2010, 12:57 Quote
They never learn, do they? Off to torrent we go.
mi1ez 8th March 2010, 12:57 Quote
fkwits.

And we always say about servers being shut down after a game is only used by a few people? Epic Fail!
DarkBanana 8th March 2010, 12:57 Quote
In a way, I'm glad. The sooner these problems come to light, the more likely the stupid sort of DRM will be dropped. Pirates will always crack games if for no other reason than to prove they can. The idea is to 'guilt' people into buying and that can only be accomplished by having good games at reasonable prices.
Spiny 8th March 2010, 12:58 Quote
Urgh. Once again, pirates probably have a better experience that paying customers.
Ph4ZeD 8th March 2010, 13:05 Quote
As usual, legitimate customers have a worse experience than people who pirate.
scawp 8th March 2010, 13:11 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Article
...workarounds for pirated versions of the games meaning that only legitimate customers are losing out.

And they wonder why we hate DRM
dinjo_jo 8th March 2010, 13:14 Quote
But the pirate version is still not playable.
howesey 8th March 2010, 13:18 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by dinjo_jo
But the pirate version is still not playable.

Plays fine according to people who have pirated the game.
Jaffo 8th March 2010, 13:23 Quote
<nelson>

HaHa!

</nelson>
wgy 8th March 2010, 13:34 Quote
haha, ive been waiting for this.
ChaosDefinesOrder 8th March 2010, 13:36 Quote
"Exceptional demand"? What the f**k else did they expect to happen on the release of such an eagerly anticipated release? I personally don't mind the internet connection thing, mine's always on anyway. What I object to is the consistant failure to properly prepare the servers. Seriously, if EVERYONE playing the game MUST connect to the server, they better damn well ensure that the server can handle that traffic! The thing is, every time this kind of thing is tried, it NEVER copes! Happened recently with the free Rage Against The Machine ticket "sales".

Hopefully this will serve as a good example of why this system sounds good in theory but is near impossible in actuality!

Anyone else concerned for On Live after this problem? Assassins Creed 2 only gets save data and loading keys from the server and fell over under demand, OnLive indends to do everything that way...

When oh when will they realise that DRM simply does not work and all it's doing is irritating everyone involved:
-Comsumers who get restricted on their legitimate purchase
-Pirates who have to spend an afternoon cracking the latest crock of s**t attempt by short sighted publishers
-Developers who get extreme bad press, damaging reputation and sales and wasted money invested in the pile of crap software that is annoying their target audience!

Assassins Creed better be working by the time I get home and want to play it...
liratheal 8th March 2010, 13:36 Quote
Wow.

I knew it was going to fall over, but I never expected it to fall over this quickly.

Go team!
DarkLord7854 8th March 2010, 13:39 Quote
I love how they had said that they'd have backup systems in the event of an outage... lulz.
eddtox 8th March 2010, 13:40 Quote
Surely, this was to be expected?
I love the way they are blaming this on pirates, though. In the war on terror piracy, the more you can blame on them, the better.
faugusztin 8th March 2010, 13:58 Quote
DDoS attack ? The software they used for that was probably called Assasin's Creeed 2 for PC.
CharlO 8th March 2010, 14:10 Quote
Sure, pirates forced me to hit the public, I didn't mean to hurt you honey, please buy my software!! Promise by the time I'll get to office I'll fix it, and it wont happen again!

Guess everyone seen this already but;

http://www.geekologie.com/2010/02/piracy_the_benefit_of_not_payi.php
Sleepstreamer 8th March 2010, 14:22 Quote
Excellent news.
sotu1 8th March 2010, 14:27 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by tron
Good. It serves them right

DRM

+ 1 from me too.
runadumb 8th March 2010, 14:32 Quote
I don't blame them for not expecting the high demand. I'm surprised they sold a single copy of any game running that level of drm. I have no sympathy for those that bought into it knowing how it worked. You deserve this, This is your reward for accepting these restrictions. Like, what did you expect? It was always going to happen. I'm surprised it happened so quickly but this is the system! Its never going to be up 100% of the time. Hence why Ubisoft can shove their games up their bum.
cjoyce1980 8th March 2010, 14:39 Quote
ubisoft just want to you to get the 360/ps3 version, its not they are really committed to pc releases anymore. there releases are always late and buggy with poor DRM software to annoy you so you go and get the 360/ps3 version.
Redbeaver 8th March 2010, 14:59 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by dinjo_jo
But the pirate version is still not playable.

some folks i talked to played silent hunter 5 just fine....
NethLyn 8th March 2010, 14:59 Quote
The only thing I'm buying Re Assassin's Creed 2 is the soundtrack, if I wanted to waste time with these games I'd rent on console or buy from Ebay so Ubi wouldn't get the money - bet there's no requirement to be wedded to Live or PSN in the same way on console versions.
Bazz 8th March 2010, 15:00 Quote
I just love that....
"you wouldn't download a car wouldn't you"
I bet if it was physically possible, millions of cars would be downloaded, it just shows how out of touch these people really are.
Not only do they use an analogy which is rediculous, but also that have nothing apart from DRM which doesn't work, forcing people into a purchase which can't work.
As people have been saying since 2001, move with the times, or get left behind.

/now wheres that car download I was looking for.
Redbeaver 8th March 2010, 15:04 Quote
W A R N I N G
Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlO
Sure, pirates forced me to hit the public, I didn't mean to hurt you honey, please buy my software!! Promise by the time I'll get to office I'll fix it, and it wont happen again!

Guess everyone seen this already but;

http://www.geekologie.com/2010/02/piracy_the_benefit_of_not_payi.php

watch out when u click the link. confirmed spyware pretending to be an anti-spyware.
Silver51 8th March 2010, 15:09 Quote
A basic CD check or Steam should be enough. Everything else is just hurting the end user.
CharlO 8th March 2010, 15:19 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redbeaver
W A R N I N G

watch out when u click the link. confirmed spyware pretending to be an anti-spyware.

True? Sorry, I read that site almost everyday, haven't seen that.
wuyanxu 8th March 2010, 15:34 Quote
geekologie has even been promoted by BBC Click, won't be any spyware.

multiplayer require constant internet connection, sure. but Assassin's Creed 2 is a single player game, it shouldn't require more than a disk check or steam verify.
l3v1ck 8th March 2010, 15:56 Quote
DRM = Epic Fail
This is just another example.
Project_Nightmare 8th March 2010, 15:57 Quote
They are blaming pirates for the high server demand. I suggest we make more pirates to increase server efficiency and decrease server load.
faugusztin 8th March 2010, 16:48 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redbeaver
watch out when u click the link. confirmed spyware pretending to be an anti-spyware.

Let me guess, your AV is Kaspersky, and it is reporting some Iframe Trojan.
ffjason 8th March 2010, 16:48 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redbeaver
W A R N I N G



watch out when u click the link. confirmed spyware pretending to be an anti-spyware.

On topic: Shock horror..... o wait it's not.

Just another company spending millions on a DRM system which only turn customers away instead of putting that money into developing a good game with lots of content which doesn't ask the user to repeat the same things for 6 hours of average gameplay....

Buy games worth their value (SupCom 2) and pirate games that aren't, simple. It is funny that most of the games I pirate and never buy are installed for about 2 hours and then deleted. Shocking the number that go through this process, i'm almost constantly defraggling my hard drive cause of it... Grrrr!
sc.uk^cRoSsFir3 8th March 2010, 17:18 Quote
Funny.

That’s another company that has underestimated the amount of people trying to use their new games.

EA had 400% more users playing BC2 over the weekend resulting in lots of problems and lengthy periods of server downtime.

Wake up!
bogie170 8th March 2010, 18:15 Quote
Ea had 400% more players, UBI's servers are rammed to breaking point.

PC gaming is dieing??? I think not.

UBI can poke their DRM, i will not be buying into it until its removed. I guess that stands for a lot of people too. Way to go to lose money UBI.
Warrior24_7 8th March 2010, 18:44 Quote
Just when you think you can trust PC gamers...this. *sigh* When will these companies learn that there is no honor among thieves! If you want to stop piracy, don't put your game on the platform.
Bindibadgi 8th March 2010, 18:47 Quote
ffjason - Keep your pants on! He was just trying to be helpful! No need to be so angry.
Skiddywinks 8th March 2010, 18:51 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by ffjason
Buy games worth their value (SupCom 2) and pirate games that aren't, simple. It is funny that most of the games I pirate and never buy are installed for about 2 hours and then deleted. Shocking the number that go through this process, i'm almost constantly defraggling my hard drive cause of it... Grrrr!

I wouldn't use SupCom2 as an example of value there, seeing as they took pretty much everything out of the original, and added research as a resource.
brave758 8th March 2010, 19:02 Quote
"HAHA"
barndoor101 8th March 2010, 19:39 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrior24_7
Just when you think you can trust PC gamers...this. *sigh* When will these companies learn that there is no honor among thieves! If you want to stop piracy, don't put your game on the platform.

exactly, these companies will put their games on platforms other than the PC where the users are stupid enough to spend 45 quid on a game!

history has shown that if you are reasonable with your DRM, or reasonable with your prices (in both cases steam, but there are others), people will prefer to buy the game not pirate it. Valve themselves have said that the total revenue gained from a steam sale (for a given time period) is several times more than the normal revenue for that product.
RichCreedy 8th March 2010, 20:17 Quote
games will be pirated on any platform, so if what you say happenend there would be no new releases

some people just wont pay for stuff, nothing you can do about it, its life, much as the software writers try, they will never be able to stop pirating, and with more and more tools available to pirates, its not getting harder for them to copy the games.

they should make them cheaper for end users, and hopefully, more will buy the software, but there will still be those who wont pay.
Rkiver 8th March 2010, 20:35 Quote
Well I purchased AS2, and I am rather enjoying it, when the damn server is up that is.

As said it's the legit customers who are getting hosed. Simple fix, get the crack online.
SNIPERMikeUK 8th March 2010, 20:47 Quote
I know lets put DRM in for paying customers, as our way of saying thanks ???
Aracos 8th March 2010, 20:54 Quote
This is exactly why I never bought assassin's creed 2 on PC, oh well if I ever do buy any ubisoft games on the PC again I'll only end up cracking them.
Rkiver 8th March 2010, 21:27 Quote
You really really really really need to mark that page as NSFW. The gif itself is fine, what surrounds it is not.
pimonserry 8th March 2010, 21:30 Quote
I have AC2, and am very much enjoying it, apart from half an hour yesterday when the servers were down. Other than that, flawless experience ;)
ChaosDefinesOrder 8th March 2010, 21:58 Quote
well, last night at 11pm (GMT) it worked absolutely fine and loaded first time straight away. Now, however, it's been 15minutes so far and it's still on "Logging in". The Launcher updated itself before trying to log in, so I blame that, unless there's a second DDoS aftermath...
ModaRobby 8th March 2010, 22:27 Quote
And another one bites the dust in the face of piracy. Ahhhhhh.
Teq 8th March 2010, 23:15 Quote
Looks like those are two games off my list :)
DXR_13KE 8th March 2010, 23:36 Quote
Quote:
Last month the gaming giant Ubisoft announced their new über-DRM which requires customers to be continuously online in order to play purchased games. Of course, this DRM was circumvented in a few hours and while downplaying this blunder, Ubisoft fails to see that they’ve only increased piracy.

http://torrentfreak.com/ubisofts-uber-drm-cracked-within-a-day-100304/

edit: and there is more, the US release of Assassins Creed is this coming Tuesday.....
Stewb 9th March 2010, 00:05 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teq
Looks like those are two games off my list :)

Not quite for me. Two games added to my "pirate and see if I like, then delete" games.
PureSilver 9th March 2010, 00:08 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver51
A basic CD check or Steam should be enough. Everything else is just hurting the end user.

+1. I was wondering what alternatives there are to Steam that are nonpartisan, or don't charge to host games (because there will be a few studios that won't release on Steam because they don't want to pay the fees or support Valve, their rivals). We really need a kind of universal DRM that all the studios sign up to (something like Steam) that everybody can get along with, that way we'd be less likely to get retarded s*** like this. Seems to me it would also be a useful system for putting people in contact with dedicated servers etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrior24_7
Just when you think you can trust PC gamers...this. *sigh* When will these companies learn that there is no honor among thieves! If you want to stop piracy, don't put your game on the platform.



We need a full-blown facepalm smiley for you, the forehead-smiting just doesn't cut it in your case. When will console makers learn there's no honour amongst thieves? You're deluding yourself if you think consolites are any less guilty than PC players; worse, since console gamers get so ruthlessly shafted on the price of their games, the studios are even more incentivised to crack down on console pirates... If the studios want to stop piracy, they need to simultaneously make it harder to steal the game and more attractive to buy it. Steam, which is a mostly unintrusive and helpful DRM system also softens the blow by offering endless redownloads free of charge and automatic patching, in addition to greatly reduced prices. It's a pretty good example of what good DRM can be.
karx11erx 9th March 2010, 00:39 Quote
I hope they get hit badly by a class action suit or something like that for this.
karx11erx 9th March 2010, 00:43 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by PureSilverSteam
... softens the blow by... greatly reduced prices.
Sorry dude, but I have to object. New titles usually are significantly more expensive on Steam than their DVD counterparts you can get from the shelves, at least here. Whoever is responsible for the pricing policy on Steam is a blatant example of unbridled greed.
Faulk_Wulf 9th March 2010, 01:05 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaosDefinesOrder
well, last night at 11pm (GMT) it worked absolutely fine and loaded first time straight away. Now, however, it's been 15minutes so far and it's still on "Logging in". The Launcher updated itself before trying to log in, so I blame that, unless there's a second DDoS aftermath...

You missed the point.

The fact that you have to wait 15min - 10hrs to log-in to a SINGLE PLAYER GAME is in and of itself assanine.

Everything else has been said by everyone else.
PureSilver 9th March 2010, 02:21 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by karx11erx
New titles usually are significantly more expensive on Steam than their DVD counterparts you can get from the shelves, at least here. Whoever is responsible for the pricing policy on Steam is a blatant example of unbridled greed.

Uh, I meant the sales - the people that set Steam's prices are the publishers, not Valve.
Warrior24_7 9th March 2010, 02:24 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrior24_7
Just when you think you can trust PC gamers...this. *sigh* When will these companies learn that there is no honor among thieves! If you want to stop piracy, don't put your game on the platform.


Quote:
We need a full-blown facepalm smiley for you, the forehead-smiting just doesn't cut it in your case. When will console makers learn there's no honour amongst thieves? You're deluding yourself if you think consolites are any less guilty than PC players; worse, since console gamers get so ruthlessly shafted on the price of their games, the studios are even more incentivised to crack down on console pirates... If the studios want to stop piracy, they need to simultaneously make it harder to steal the game and more attractive to buy it. Steam, which is a mostly unintrusive and helpful DRM system also softens the blow by offering endless redownloads free of charge and automatic patching, in addition to greatly reduced prices. It's a pretty good example of what good DRM can be.

One of the reasons prices are high in games or any other industry with this kind of rampant problem...is theft! The PC side of the hobby is costing developers, publishers, and on the bottom end "gamers" more. You have to be some kinda dumba$$ to believe otherwise! And you do of course. The simple solution is to stop putting your multi-million dollar, high profile, AAA, "console game" on the PC so it can be stolen. The same retards that will spend $500 on a DX10 video card that can't play DX10 games or even do AA for that matter, are stealing $50 games! There is no excuse for this, so quit trying to make them. There was nothing wrong with Assassin's Creed 2, it "is" a AAA (console) title on to the PC! If it's not your cup of tea then don't play it, leave it alone. Why steal a game that you don't like? The console makers are the only ones fighting back against these idiots with mass bannings, high fines, and jail time! The effect is clear, there is waaay less piracy on the console as opposed to the PC! The games are better, the online play experience is better, and you know that you're getting a better play experience overall. There is nothing more frustrating (maybe that the game doesn't work) then playing one of your favorite games, only to find out that it's been hacked into by a bunch of #$^&$! So, don't publish on the PC. That is the most effective, non-intrusive, DRM ever created, and everybody wins! The developers make more money on consoles anyway, and the player has a better enviroment to play in, and you're stamping out one of the greatest scourges in gaming .
Elton 9th March 2010, 02:38 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrior24_7
/snip



Does he have schizophrenia?
Quote:
So, don't publish on the PC. That is the most effective, non-intrusive, DRM ever created, and everybody wins!

Apparently everybody means 1/2 of the gaming population right? :p
Warrior24_7 9th March 2010, 02:49 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by barndoor101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrior24_7
Just when you think you can trust PC gamers...this. *sigh* When will these companies learn that there is no honor among thieves! If you want to stop piracy, don't put your game on the platform.

exactly, these companies will put their games on platforms other than the PC where the users are stupid enough to spend 45 quid on a game!

history has shown that if you are reasonable with your DRM, or reasonable with your prices (in both cases steam, but there are others), people will prefer to buy the game not pirate it. Valve themselves have said that the total revenue gained from a steam sale (for a given time period) is several times more than the normal revenue for that product.

The only thing that history has shown, is that piracy on the PC will continue unabated. Thats it and that all. Theft is where it's at on the platform. Make no mistake about it. It makes no sense to continue to develop multi-million dollar, AAA games, on a weezing and declining platform, only to have that game stolen! All of that money and effort gone! Why?!! I hope UBISOFT leaned a lesson here, as they were the ones running their mouths earlier about DRM. Not only was the game stolen, the company is now being attacked and their user base effected! There is a reason common sense people avoid bad neighborhoods, the chances of you being assaulted are greatly increased! Once UBISOFT gets plooked in the booty a few more times by PC gamers maybe they'll catch the hint. Right now the PC is a bad neighborhood and the ghetto area of gaming. Develope, publish and game at your own risk.
PureSilver 9th March 2010, 02:57 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrior24_7
One of the reasons prices are high in games or any other industry with this kind of rampant problem...is theft! The PC side of the hobby is costing developers, publishers, and on the bottom end "gamers" more.

Yes. Theft. Were the five previous links supplied to modchip stores not enough to convince you that piracy is equally prevalent on the console, as on the PC? Perhaps you'd like some more? What you're seeing is the debilitating effect of intellectual property theft, committed on consoles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrior24_7
The console makers are the only ones fighting back against these idiots with mass bannings, high fines, and jail time!

Not true. We have Steam bans, various anti-cheat software, but of course what you've omitted to mention is the reason console makers are cracking down on console players who don't follow the rules is because you are their cash cow. You are nothing but a big, fat, source of revenue thanks to the hefty premium you pay for games that are released on PC at a third of the price with infinitely more flexibility (incidentally, when you say the consoles get better games - actually, they get the same games). They don't want people upsetting the artificially inflated prices of console games any more than they want people pirating PC games.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrior24_7
The effect is clear, there is waaay less piracy on the console

If it's clear, where's the evidence? From over here, a million Xbox bans looks pretty severe, you know?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrior24_7
The games are better, the online play experience is better, and you know that you're getting a better play experience overall. There is nothing more frustrating (maybe that the game doesn't work) then playing one of your favorite games, only to find out that it's been hacked into by a bunch of #$^&$!

If it's hacking you're worried about, really, it's consoles you ought to avoid. From the latest big release alone, after all. I'm not going to respond to any half-baked response your 13-year-old arse can cook up - I've already allowed the thread to wander far, far off topic - but I just want you to know that you have my everlasting contempt for your complete inability to construct a coherent argument in any of the four threads you've posted in ;)

[/HANDBAGS]
Warrior24_7 9th March 2010, 03:05 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elton
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrior24_7
/snip



Does he have schizophrenia?
Quote:
So, don't publish on the PC. That is the most effective, non-intrusive, DRM ever created, and everybody wins!

Apparently everybody means 1/2 of the gaming population right? :p

Oh no, again? Lock up all tools before you continue. You lost last time you debated me, this will be no different. Oh, I forgot to tell you...I'm anti-pirate, anti-piracy, anti-hacker, anti-cheat, anti-exploit, ect. I like to play fair (my skills vs yours) and I "pay" for my games, so there is yet another reason to hate me. "EVERYBODY" wins! The devs, publishers, gamers and the industry as a whole, everybody! Most so called "PC gamers" (ummm...you!) own consoles anyway, and those that don't will, if they want to play AAA games. If not, then die on the vine.
Elton 9th March 2010, 03:07 Quote
For fun, and to rub some salt into those gashing wounds:
Quote:
The only thing that history has shown, is that piracy on the PC will continue unabated. Thats it and that all.

Well Piracy occurs on every platform, even on cartridge based game systems, so saying that it only occurs on the PC is simple a denial of truth.
Quote:
Make no mistake about it. It makes no sense to continue to develop multi-million dollar, AAA games, on a weezing and declining platform, only to have that game stolen!

It makes no sense to develop games for that so coveted platform that just had 1 million banned from it because of piracy.
Quote:
I hope UBISOFT leaned a lesson here, as they were the ones running their mouths earlier about DRM.

Yeah they have, don't under estimate the fact that a constant connection will kill servers on opening night. It's their fault for not realizing that there's more PC gamers who legitimately bought it than pirated it.
Quote:
Not only was the game stolen, the company is now being attacked and their user base effected!

The problem with this statement is that there are people who legitimately bought it, are you implying that someone should screw over paying customers for the sake of a few dollars?
Quote:
Most so called "PC gamers" (ummm...you!) own consoles anyway, and those that don't will, if they want to play AAA games. If not, then die on the vine.

That's horribly flawed thinking, I do legitimately buy my games, but there's something in knowing that you have a freedom of choice.

Not to mention that AC2 has some framerate issues on the consoles, why would I pay the same price for something that looks better on the PC?

Also I might add that I'm against Piracy, but in all honesty and being realistic, it exists everywhere.

DVDs, Blu-Rays, Console games, PC games, Music, all forms of entertainment short of Records are pirated, the thing is whether or not you do it, and the industry should not under any circumstance screw over the paying customers, because at the end of the day, doesn't the industry keep the consumer happy? It exists for that reason.
ZERO <ibis> 9th March 2010, 04:43 Quote
Luckily I avoided this mess by not playing any of their games...
GiantStickMan 9th March 2010, 05:05 Quote
It should be noted however that mod-chips are not just used to bypass copy protection. When I had my original PSX i had it chipped because as I was living in a PAL area, I missed out on a lot of quality NTSC titles. So i had it chipped, and legally imported original copies of titles like Xenogears, Chrono Cross, Chrono Trigger + FFIV, Persona, Persona 2 from the States... Sure, it allowed me to play copied discs but the point is I never did.
Likewise my PS2 was modified to boot from a hard drive again allowing me to play imports like Grandia 3, Grandia Xtreme, Xenosaga 1 and 3 (2 was released in PAL strangely enough).

With the latest generation of consoles though i haven't had a need to do this and my 360 and PS3 are both unmodified and will be staying that way.

Point is mod-chips are not always used for piracy.
Volund 9th March 2010, 05:21 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrior24_7
The same retards that will spend $500 on a DX10 video card that can't play DX10 games or even do AA for that matter, are stealing $50 games!

You be trollin' here... this is a hardware enthusiast forum, don't go around calling us retards because of how we decide to spend our money....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrior24_7
There was nothing wrong with Assassin's Creed 2

Yes, there is something wrong with Assassin's creed 2, it is called useless DRM that hurts the legitimate, paying customer. If I BUY a game, I expect to be able to play it, when I want to play it, not only when the server feels like playing nice. in that same vein, what happens years down the line when Ubisoft gets sold off, goes bankrupt, or decides to stop supporting the game, then, I can no longer play the game that I paid for. Really, cracking the game is looking like an extremely nice option.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrior24_7
The console makers are the only ones fighting back against these idiots with mass bannings, high fines, and jail time!

Obviously you haven't been playing CS:S or any other VAC games lately.... or WoW, or Guild Wars, or Runescape, WC3, or (wow, can't think of games this late at night).... well, really any online game with any kind of multiplayer element
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrior24_7
The games are better

Just because you pay more, doesn't mean that you are getting a better game... all you are getting is the same game, optimized for console controllers, and gimped graphics
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrior24_7
the online play experience is better

No, just.... no.... If I wanted to listen to a bunch of 12 and 13 year olds yelling about penises, your mom, and mudkipz, I'd either go to /b/, or start working at camp again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrior24_7
So, don't publish on the PC. That is the most effective, non-intrusive, DRM ever created, and everybody wins!

"everybody", obviously means everyone except PC gamers.
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Originally Posted by Warrior24_7
and you're stamping out one of the greatest scourges in gaming .

Sounds to me like you need to stop trolling, No one here accepts your opinions, as they are completely invalid.
GiantStickMan 9th March 2010, 06:13 Quote
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The PC side of the hobby is costing developers, publishers, and on the bottom end "gamers" more. You have to be some kinda dumba$$ to believe otherwise! And you do of course. The simple solution is to stop putting your multi-million dollar, high profile, AAA, "console game" on the PC so it can be stolen.

Um... You are aware that piracy on consoles is just as prevalant as the PC and has been for some time, right? Name any current gen console and I can tell you there are people playing its games illegally. PS3, 360, PSP, DS, Wii... proprietary media doesn't work either, look at the PSP's UMD, there's always a work around, and there's always going to be people who will try and defeat the copy protection if for no other reason than to prove they can do it.

Say that your theory is employed (even though it never would be but let's run with it) and they stop releasing games on PC, where do you think these people will turn their attention? Piracy is a problem for every industry not just gaming; and it's not limited to, or more prevalent on one system or another.
Hell, piracy has been blamed as being a major contributing factor for the poor sales and "death" of certain consoles. The Dreamcast being a prime example.
Warrior24_7 9th March 2010, 06:48 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volund
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrior24_7
The same retards that will spend $500 on a DX10 video card that can't play DX10 games or even do AA for that matter, are stealing $50 games!

You be trollin' here... this is a hardware enthusiast forum, don't go around calling us retards because of how we decide to spend our money....
This is the "gaming news" section, NOT the "hardware news" section, so maybe you should learn how to navigate your way around the site. I don't care how you spend your money, you know the old saying "A fool and his money are soon parted". If you want to spend $500 on a card that can't do AA thats your business. If the shoe fits...wear it!
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Yes, there is something wrong with Assassin's creed 2, it is called useless DRM that hurts the legitimate, paying customer. If I BUY a game, I expect to be able to play it, when I want to play it, not only when the server feels like playing nice. in that same vein, what happens years down the line when Ubisoft gets sold off, goes bankrupt, or decides to stop supporting the game, then, I can no longer play the game that I paid for. Really, cracking the game is looking like an extremely nice option.

Since you don't have that problem on the console, playing the game on that looks like a extrememly nice option! So is keeping the game off of the PC, as it should've never been there in the first place! Then this would never have happened.
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Obviously you haven't been playing CS:S or any other VAC games lately.... or WoW, or Guild Wars, or Runescape, WC3, or (wow, can't think of games this late at night).... well, really any online game with any kind of multiplayer element
Yep, just naming off games "you" don't obviously play!! I play Guild Wars, and can tell you first hand that the game has been hacked up to the point it's no longer fun. They warn you as soon as you log in about account thefts, ect. The PVP section is full of bots! They're not even trying to fix it anymore, they've let that game go along time ago. This is what happens to any online game with any kind of multiplayer element on the PC. It invites hackers, cheaters, and thieves, then they ruin the enviroment for everybody else.
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Just because you pay more, doesn't mean that you are getting a better game... all you are getting is the same game, optimized for console controllers, and gimped graphics
Yes, I am!! My experience is better because the damn game at least works!! The PC doesn't!! The game is under $40 new and can be traded in for a discount on other games! Sorry PC, won't happen! Isn't the PC version more, and it sucks on top of that?

http://www.walmart.com/search/search-ng.do?search_constraint=2636&ic=48_0&search_query=assassins+creed
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No, just.... no.... If I wanted to listen to a bunch of 12 and 13 year olds yelling about penises, your mom, and mudkipz, I'd either go to /b/, or start working at camp again.
As opposed to a bunch of 13yr olds hacking, cheating, stealing and sabotaging games, and ruining the whole experience for everbody. Also yelling about penises, your mom, and mudkipz!
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"everybody", obviously means everyone except PC gamers.
Majority rules, most *ahem* (rolls eyes) PC gamers have consoles now anyway, you'll avoid all of these problems.
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Sounds to me like you need to stop trolling, No one here accepts your opinions, as they are completely invalid.
An invalid opinion? That ONLY could've been said by a PC gamer!
general22 9th March 2010, 08:20 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrior24_7
The game is under $40 new and can be traded in for a discount on other games! Sorry PC, won't happen! Isn't the PC version more, and it sucks on top of that?

Oh you trade in games, don't you realise you are hurting the developers of the games since they don't get money from second hand sales.

Also you do realise that ignoring evidence isn't the best way to have a discussion but then again you seem more interested in just trolling anybody who replies to you.
GravitySmacked 9th March 2010, 08:32 Quote
When I found out about this awful DRM I cancelled my PC pre-order of Assassins Creed and bought it for the Xbox second hand of eBay; glad I did now.

I hope this debacle makes Ubisoft think again about treating it's paying customers in such a way.
Bindibadgi 9th March 2010, 09:26 Quote
People are entitled to their opinion, but personal insults will not be tolerated. Any more and I'll start handing out 24hr bans.

Don't confused (some of) Warrior's valid points with troll. He's entitled to his opinion as much as anybody.

In my personal opinion - as much as I hate to admit it, he's probably right to some degree. If I was a publisher and with my business hat on, I would not develop for the PC. It's fact that console gamers pay more, they buy more, they score games higher and there is less piracy. PC gamers should not be angry at (him or) publishers, they should be angry at those who pirate PC games for killing the platform. Get the priorities straight: everything costs money, people should pay for what they enjoy. This is outside the argument for DRM btw.
general22 9th March 2010, 09:53 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bindibadgi
People are entitled to their opinion, but personal insults will not be tolerated. Any more and I'll start handing out 24hr bans.

Don't confused (some of) Warrior's valid points with troll. He's entitled to his opinion as much as anybody.

In my personal opinion - as much as I hate to admit it, he's probably right to some degree. If I was a publisher and with my business hat on, I would not develop for the PC. It's fact that console gamers pay more, they buy more, they score games higher and there is less piracy. PC gamers should not be angry at (him or) publishers, they should be angry at those who pirate PC games for killing the platform. Get the priorities straight: everything costs money, people should pay for what they enjoy. This is outside the argument for DRM btw.


There is still obviously some money to be made on PC otherwise these publishers wouldn't bother either. It's also unfair to blame piracy for this so called death of PC gaming.

The problem here is the knee-jerk reaction to the rampant piracy problem by just piling on more DRM which ultimately does little to hinder piracy at all and just punish legitimate customers. And Warrior hasn't really presented any valid points in my view other than some vitriolic rambling.

If publishers don't want to put their games on PC then that's fine, some people simply won't buy the game and publishers lose 10% or whatever small percentage of revenue that their PC port might have brought in.
MaverickWill 9th March 2010, 09:54 Quote
So, considering Assassin's Creed 2 is a game based around the concept of stealthily killing people, when does this thread turn into Pirates Vs Ninjas?

On-topic, I'd quite like my single-player games that have little/no use for internet connectivity, to not require a drain on my bandwidth, ta. I'm sure that's reasonable, especially if people's broadband connections have bandwidth caps.

I'm not gonna cry "Death to DRM!" - just to the stupid DRM solutions. Steam, as many of you agree, is amazing at what it does. You buy the games, you donwload the games, you install the games on as many machines as you like, but sign in with a username to play your AAA titles (and if you tick a box, you don't even need to sign in - it's all done for you!)

Off-topic, the Xbox is fun for a more casual gaming audience than the PC attracts. It's the age-old arguments:

XBOX (or indeed any console):
Plug & Play
Connects to every TV on the planet
Cheaper on the hardware front
Guaranteed compatibility (Batman:AA, Saboteur, etc - take note)

PC:
Infinitely customisable
Better multiplayer support
Graphically superior
Steam

Controller support is a mixed bag, but with a wired Xbox controller next to the PC, it's a "best of both worlds" situation.

We're all getting the shaft from the gaming industry - we might as well get along!
Mentai 9th March 2010, 10:01 Quote
Warrior24_7 <3

On topic, I kinda want to play AC2... I am prepared to wait until it's REALLY cheap though. Hopefully all this crap will be sorted by then?
Probably not.

PS: Remember when Ubi only put a disc check on PoP and said the sales would determine the level of future DRM and everybody pirated it to hell? Yeah, I bought that game to avoid this situation. Way to go pirates.
Kúsař 9th March 2010, 10:30 Quote
FFS, if you don't like DRM/price don't buy/pirate the game then. Some of you would say "vote with your wallet" but unfortunately it doesn't work in this case as there's no easy way to tell Ubisoft you don't buy their games because of DRM or price - they'll blame it on piracy...

The problem with Ubi is that their PR are completely out of touch with PC gamers. They don't ask gamers questions why they have or haven't bought this game. If they're fine with price of games or this form of DRM. And unless Ubi change their attitude they'll keep failing. Not to mention Ubi's CEO whose opinions are sometimes nearly an insults to all paying customers, that's just wrong...

I've loved AC1 and I've bought it. Of course as there was no playable demo(at least I couldn't find one) I've waited until it's price was "an acceptable risk" ~20$. I'd buy AC2 even for slightly higher price but never with this form of DRM. *This* is a lost sale and not due to piracy, Mr. Guillemot...
Silver51 9th March 2010, 10:36 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bindibadgi
...PC gamers should not be angry at (him or) publishers, they should be angry at those who pirate PC games for killing the platform...

This has been happening for some time. The quality of PC games has been going down hill for years where main stream PC games have all been developed for a console then ported over. Textures, effects, maps sizes, draw distances and control systems are suffering for it.

I've bought every game I play, even the ones that are so awful on PC, they've been consigned to Steam's uninstalled list, (Call of Juarez 2, AvP3 I'm looking at you.)

There is no answer to piracy. Cracking a new game is a challenge for the people who do it and downloading the cracked game is easy for people who can't be bothered to pay.

DRM has become a necessary component of PC games, and while it is something that we should learn to accept, it needs to be done correctly. Obviously, stopping people playing a game altogether while your online DRM server falls over is not the way forward, but online activation isn't such a bad thing. Steam has shown us the way forward in this area and (IMO) more developers should be using it as a universal platform to launch new titles.

Hell, I'd be all in favour of a hardware DRM solution if it meant that developers went back to making quality PC Only titles. Stick a hardware component on the graphics card or motherboard to force a disk check similar to consoles and have done with it. People will complain bitterly, but if it stops consolified titles, (Deus Ex 2 :'(,) ridiculous online DRM checks, limited installs, Star Force et al, then it might not be so bad.
shanky887614 9th March 2010, 11:01 Quote
i dont know why people are complaining there is allready a patch out and im not talking about skid-row
and the animus problems are fixed
Bindibadgi 9th March 2010, 11:33 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver51
This has been happening for some time. The quality of PC games has been going down hill for years where main stream PC games have all been developed for a console then ported over. Textures, effects, maps sizes, draw distances and control systems are suffering for it.

.

It's only because, again, we're in the ever widening gulf of PC performance versus console performance. It happened back when DirectX 9 arrived and the PS2/Xbox were several years old. Back then we had the benefit of FarCry/Doom/UT engines dropping allowing developers another method of design.

Unfortunately for us, the UT3 engine is so popular and so firmly DirectX 9 it is holding back game development because publishers and developers know the code inside out and can design games cheaper. It takes massive investment by Nvidia and ATI to push developers forward - DirectX 11 will do this to some extent and this year it should bring people back to the PC side of things a bit. However it also requires a hardware push from NV and ATI too.

Plus, most mainstream games review sites who do PC games dont comment on the quality, they just go "yea it's a good game to play" so there's no incentive to make it super awesome.
Plus remember, those who buy performance PC parts are a small proportion of those who PC game also so publishers push for the lower specs. You only have to go to a LAN party or read a "gaming" forum to see that: "My G45 graphics cant play MW2" <-- I have read this!

On the other hand, I also think you're being typically performance-PC-centric: recent games have looked good. Hell Crysis still looks good, Mass Effect 2 and AvP look great and so do many others. ;)

I think Valve and Steam have saved the PC market. It's the right way to do things: more companies should go down this route.
Silver51 9th March 2010, 11:45 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bindibadgi
... On the other hand, I also think you're being typically performance-PC-centric: recent games have looked good. Hell Crysis still looks good, Mass Effect 2 and AvP look great and so do many others. ;)...

Yeah, I guess. After Crysis I was hoping PC games would adopt it's graphical quality. You tend to forget that most people who walk into a Game or HMV store identify their computer model as 'Dell'. While it's not their fault, I just have an itch to see another evolution in graphics. [/nerd]

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I think Valve and Steam have saved the PC market. It's the right way to do things: more companies should go down this route.

If I ever met Gabe Newell, I'd probably stroke his face and cry. Valve have done so many things right and Steam is firmly embedded as my PC gaming gateway.
Rkiver 9th March 2010, 11:55 Quote
While Valve and Steam have helped, they really are overpriced. Games should be cheaper via digital distribution, yet I see a game on Steam for €50, and then I walk into my local Gamestop or Game and it's anywhere from €10-€20 cheaper (latest AvP for example was only €35 in Game).

Valve need to bring their prices more inline with high street stores, at least when it comes to Euro pricing.
impar 9th March 2010, 12:23 Quote
Greetings!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bindibadgi
I think Valve and Steam have saved the PC market. It's the right way to do things: more companies should go down this route.
Steam has to solve its pricing policy.
Games, outside of those with a 33%+ off, are too expensive.
tron 9th March 2010, 14:18 Quote
I also have to agree with 'some' of what Arguer24_7 says. A lot of PC gamers (more than on any other platform) have a seriously warped and screwed up mentality when it comes to the idea of paying for games. It doesn't matter how rich they are or whether they have just spent £2000 on new PC hardware, far too many don't want to pay for their games and keep the game developers in business.

The common attitude is: "I'll pirate this new game and then see if I like it."

The publishers only care about numbers that they can read. So every time a cracked game is downloaded, the piracy figures increase and the publishers then panic and create even more terrible forms of DRM.

I'm not saying the game publishers have the correct mentality, but it's inevitable what will happen as piracy figures increase.

I believe that if you don't like a certain game (or publisher) then do not buy their game AND do not pirate it also.

Also, don't touch their game on ANY platform.

What's the point in protesting about Ubisoft's new evil DRM but then buying the game on console? The console sales still go to Ubi. The PC DRM still remains in place.

I hope the Ubisoft server fail continues, only because of how bad this particular form of DRM is.
barndoor101 9th March 2010, 14:29 Quote
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Originally Posted by tron
The common attitude is: "I'll pirate this new game and then see if I like it."

PC users also cant rent games from shops, and cant lend games to their friends. demos arent always made, so how am i supposed to sample a game before i buy?

someone who pirates a PC game wasnt going to be a customer anyway, so its not a sale lost.
GravitySmacked 9th March 2010, 14:35 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by tron


What's the point in protesting about Ubisoft's new evil DRM but then buying the game on console? The console sales still go to Ubi. The PC DRM still remains in place.

If you're refering to me I bought it second hand (as mentioned) so Ubisoft aren’t really benefiting too much are they.

Anyway that's beside the point which is the DRM on the PC is awful and I have every right to protest against it, just because I don't agree with it on the PC doesn’t mean I don't want to play the game itself - I'm not about to cut my nose off to spite my face.
PureSilver 9th March 2010, 15:02 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by tron
The common attitude is: "I'll pirate this new game and then see if I like it." [...] I believe that if you don't like a certain game (or publisher) then do not buy their game AND do not pirate it also.

Do you not see a bit of a conundrum there? How is the PC buyer, who usually doesn't play on friends' computers like consolites might, and cannot readily be 'lent' a game by a friend like a console player can, to know what games he will "like"? Demos are the first answer, but in the absence of a demo, what exactly are you basing your buying decisions based upon other than the secondhand experiences of reviewers? Though I'm not blameless, I've only pirated one game in the last 6 years - GTA IV, which I bought the following day - and that has probably stopped me buying a few other games I might well have liked simply because I won't pay £25+ for something I've not had the opportunity to try. I don't pirate, they don't have a demo - I don't try their game and I won't buy it. That's a lost sale for sure.
Warrior24_7 9th March 2010, 15:25 Quote
[QUOTE=general22]
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Originally Posted by Warrior24_7
The game is under $40 new and can be traded in for a discount on other games! Sorry PC, won't happen! Isn't the PC version more, and it sucks on top of that?
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Oh you trade in games, don't you realise you are hurting the developers of the games since they don't get money from second hand sales.
What?!Are you kidding me?!!! So I guess they're making a mint off of the pirates as well?!! You said that like I'm part of some criminal enterprise..."GASP"! You trade-in games...arrest that man!!! Damn right I do, I also buy used games! You see, the key word is "buy", something that the vast majority of PC do not do. Reselling is legal under the first sales doctrine in the US...stealing is not...in ANY country! You get the same game, with the same warranty, at a cheaper price. Sorry PC, no can do! Gamestop has made more money selling used games, than selling new games! Trading in a game gets you discounts on any other games, new or used! I already know that EA and others want that used market and are working on ways to tap it or destroy it as we speak.
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Also you do realise that ignoring evidence isn't the best way to have a discussion but then again you seem more interested in just trolling anybody who replies to you.
Ignoring what evidence? Evidence that piracy is killing the PC platform? Is that "me" doing that, or "you doing that?...EXACTLY!!!
Are you ignoring "this" eveidence?!! The console version is cheaper, rated higher, and is carried in the store! The PC version is higher priced, rated lower, and IS NOT carried in the store...hmmm...I wonder why?!!

http://www.walmart.com/search/search-ng.do?search_constraint=2636&ic=48_0&search_query=assassins+creed

ignore this evidence. Piracy!

http://dlb-network.com/2009/12/over-5-million-copies-of-mw2-were-torrented-this-year/

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=21965
http://www.gameranx.com/updates/id/236/article/with-project-ten-dollar-ea-aims-to-tackle-the-used-games-market/
Warrior24_7 9th March 2010, 16:28 Quote
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Originally Posted by Rkiver
While Valve and Steam have helped, they really are overpriced. Games should be cheaper via digital distribution, yet I see a game on Steam for €50, and then I walk into my local Gamestop or Game and it's anywhere from €10-€20 cheaper (latest AvP for example was only €35 in Game).

Valve need to bring their prices more inline with high street stores, at least when it comes to Euro pricing.

When you're the only game in town then you charge what you want! They've built themselves a monopoly and "you" helped them do it!!! Now they're overcharging you...thank you very much! Also, you must keep in mind what Valve must go thru to get the game on Steam in the first place, the publisher must get their cut, Valve gets their cut, any rights or exclusive rights must be paid for as well. I don't know, but the price is reflecting maybe?
Bindibadgi 9th March 2010, 17:21 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by impar
Greetings!

Steam has to solve its pricing policy.
Games, outside of those with a 33%+ off, are too expensive.

Yet, in defence of Steam, you can take up their bandwidth downloading GBs and GBs of data whenever you want, on whatever PC you want. It's not like iTunes that requires authenticated devices (imagine only allowing your Steam account on up to 3 authenticated PCs, and it needs to be reauthed or deauthed when you upgrade) or EA Store that only lets you download the game so many times within a set time period.

You get to pre-load the games at your own pace, and play them exactly when the game launches (more or less) - no trip to the shops, no waiting for the postman.

If you don't like the price then wait until it comes down, but at the end of the day it costs what it costs because that's what it costs. Software has a value just like the considerably more expensive hardware you buy. ;)
Silver51 9th March 2010, 17:33 Quote
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Originally Posted by Bindibadgi
...no trip to the shops...

Which for me is either a 20 or 50 mile round trip. The bike is okay with that but being Cornwall, you're likely to get stuck behind a tractor or rained on. Download is preferable, even if it costs a few quid more.
RichCreedy 9th March 2010, 18:08 Quote
pc'c are not the only platform where games are cracked hacked and stolen, consoles also suffer from pirated games, anyone who thinks its limited to a pc is a moron, and i wouldn't say it is less prevelant on consoles, because we all know it isn't.

just dont buy a second hand xbox360 on fleebay
Stewb 9th March 2010, 18:09 Quote
Two things ubi can say about cracked versions:

1) Note wording, "no valid cracked version of either Silent Hunter 5 or Assassin’s Creed II are available". They will say only valid versions are bought ones, so there are no valid cracked ones

2) They probably say there are no cracked versions becuase they have not received any connections from illegal versions :o
impar 9th March 2010, 18:12 Quote
Greetings!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bindibadgi
Yet, in defence of Steam, you can take up their bandwidth downloading GBs and GBs of data whenever you want, on whatever PC you want.
I dont download.
The old ones purchased through Steam are backed up. The new ones are bought retail from UK.
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Originally Posted by Bindibadgi
It's not like iTunes that requires authenticated devices (imagine only allowing your Steam account on up to 3 authenticated PCs, and it needs to be reauthed or deauthed when you upgrade) or EA Store that only lets you download the game so many times within a set time period.
Yeah, that would suck.
But if Steam worked like that, it wouldn have had the earlier success it had.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bindibadgi
If you don't like the price then wait until it comes down, but at the end of the day it costs what it costs because that's what it costs. Software has a value just like the considerably more expensive hardware you buy. ;)
That would have made sense if prices were similar in the three Steam stores. They arent.
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Originally Posted by Bindibadgi
You get to pre-load the games at your own pace, and play them exactly when the game launches (more or less) - no trip to the shops, no waiting for the postman.
When the pre-load exists.
Got the Imperial version of NTW on March 1st for less than the regular edition of NTW would have cost me in Steam, paied 6€ for p&h and the delivery guy (since I wasnt at home) phoned me and brought the game to work.
Paying 12€ extra for the benefit of playing the game three days earlier is not worth it.

Steam is currently an acceptable DRM system and a nice community software but it is not a viable store.
Bindibadgi 9th March 2010, 18:54 Quote
OK, so your personal situation is somewhat different to the normal Steam user, impar.

Pre-loads are often available for particularly large and popular games, and very often people download them not just register. And they still receive future updates through Steam too.

The prices are set by Publishers, not Steam. It's not Valve that controls anything other than its own games.
Warrior24_7 9th March 2010, 20:15 Quote
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Originally Posted by Elton
For fun, and to rub some salt into those gashing wounds:
I said put away the tools, as to not injure yourself, so now you're using salt?!! My god man! Have you no dignity?!!
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Well Piracy occurs on every platform, even on cartridge based game systems, so saying that it only occurs on the PC is simple a denial of truth.
Starting right where you left off, with another factless, and made up statement. "Who" said that it only occurs on the PC? Point this person out Elton, in other words..."prove it"!
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It makes no sense to develop games for that so coveted platform that just had 1 million banned from it because of piracy.
Since we all know that you're not good with numbers, especially adding big numbers. So 1 million sounds big to you. Well, the numbers that you're about to see will blow you little mind. This data is over 2 months old.

http://dlb-network.com/2009/12/over-5-million-copies-of-mw2-were-torrented-this-year/

Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 has been pirated in the PC over 4.1 million times
The Sims 3 came in second place as most pirated games in 2009 with 3,200,000 copies
Prototype in third with 2,350,000 torrented copies on PC
Need for Speed SHIFT in fourth with 2,100,000 copies torrented on PC
Street Fighter was not mentioned because they did not say what the PC's numbers were.

4 PC games, 11,750,000 million illegal downloads on the PC. Compared to 1 million on the 360? THAT IS OUTRAGEOUS!! It's out-of-control!!! M$ banned 1 million players remember? Where are the PS3 numbers hmmm? EXACTLY!!! Zero!

Wii even had quite a few games torrented but New Super Mario Brothers Wii stood out with 1,150,000 pirated copies. Nintendo also sold 10 million copies in 2 months, so didn't need the money, but they made sure they took care of that dumba$$ too!

http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/newsArt.cfm?artid=21140
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Yeah they have, don't under estimate the fact that a constant connection will kill servers on opening night. It's their fault for not realizing that there's more PC gamers who legitimately bought it than pirated it.
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Not only was the game stolen, the company is now being attacked and their user base effected!
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The problem with this statement is that there are people who legitimately bought it, are you implying that someone should screw over paying customers for the sake of a few dollars?
Another factless statement, the servers were attacked.

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/gaming/2010/03/09/ubi-s-drm-servers-vulnerable-to-attacks/1
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Most so called "PC gamers" (ummm...you!) own consoles anyway, and those that don't will, if they want to play AAA games. If not, then die on the vine.
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That's horribly flawed thinking, I do legitimately buy my games, but there's something in knowing that you have a freedom of choice.
You're right, you do have choice. To buy or not buy. Thats all the choice you need.
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Not to mention that AC2 has some framerate issues on the consoles, why would I pay the same price for something that looks better on the PC?
Framerate issues? The PC version is utter garbage. At first the damn game didn't even work!!! You must constantly be online to even play, you also have the white screen issue, and freezing issues. The PC version is the worst version of all by far! This whole thread exist for no other reason.
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Also I might add that I'm against Piracy, but in all honesty and being realistic, it exists everywhere.

DVDs, Blu-Rays, Console games, PC games, Music, all forms of entertainment short of Records are pirated, the thing is whether or not you do it, and the industry should not under any circumstance screw over the paying customers, because at the end of the day, doesn't the industry keep the consumer happy? It exists for that reason.
The ONLY people screwing over paying customers are the pirates. They cause prices to rise, devs to abandon the PC platform, slow or no releases dates from console ports, a lack of investment and support for the PC by the dev community, they totally ruin the multi-player game space, and invite all types of intrusive DRM to be implemented. Customers are not happy on the PC, (I'm one of them) so they move away to consoles. This is the reason why.
impar 9th March 2010, 20:40 Quote
Greetings!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bindibadgi
And they still receive future updates through Steam too.
I do download the updates.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bindibadgi
The prices are set by Publishers, not Steam. It's not Valve that controls anything other than its own games.
You mean publishers tell Steam when and for how much Steam should offer the weekly discounts?
1ad7 10th March 2010, 01:31 Quote
Man the news these past few days just keeps me smiling. All the stupid **** these companies do is finally biting them!
SimoomiZ 10th March 2010, 01:54 Quote
Steam seem to have all this wrapped up , it's strange how there doesn't seem to be a real competitor.
Elton 10th March 2010, 06:08 Quote
Quote:
Framerate issues? The PC version is utter garbage. At first the damn game didn't even work!!! You must constantly be online to even play, you also have the white screen issue, and freezing issues. The PC version is the worst version of all by far! This whole thread exist for no other reason.

Let's see, why is this again? the DRM issue. But hey, you're entitled to your opinion. The 1st one played fine, I have it in fact, works great with AA and such on my rig.
Quote:
Another factless statement, the servers were attacked.

Well you see, the server was shut down due to attacks, and it hurt the paying customers since they had to be connected to the server for the game to work. A simple online registration would suffice don't you say?
Quote:
Since we all know that you're not good with numbers, especially adding big numbers. So 1 million sounds big to you. Well, the numbers that you're about to see will blow you little mind. This data is over 2 months old.

http://dlb-network.com/2009/12/over-...ted-this-year/

Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 has been pirated in the PC over 4.1 million times
The Sims 3 came in second place as most pirated games in 2009 with 3,200,000 copies
Prototype in third with 2,350,000 torrented copies on PC
Need for Speed SHIFT in fourth with 2,100,000 copies torrented on PC
Street Fighter was not mentioned because they did not say what the PC's numbers were.

4 PC games, 11,750,000 million illegal downloads on the PC. Compared to 1 million on the 360? THAT IS OUTRAGEOUS!! It's out-of-control!!! M$ banned 1 million players remember? Where are the PS3 numbers hmmm? EXACTLY!!! Zero!

Wii even had quite a few games torrented but New Super Mario Brothers Wii stood out with 1,150,000 pirated copies. Nintendo also sold 10 million copies in 2 months, so didn't need the money, but they made sure they took care of that dumba$$ too!

Well that's the conundrum, seeing as there's no tangible way we can really demo games, rent games, or even trade them in one wonders why..
Quote:
Starting right where you left off, with another factless, and made up statement. "Who" said that it only occurs on the PC? Point this person out Elton, in other words..."prove it"!

Pretty sure you did.

I'm all for DRM, as long as it's a one shot, non intrusive sort. GTA IV didn't handle it that well, but there were decent workarounds if you didn't want the online content, most games use just a simple register your copy upon installation, and no need to be connected on a server for everything.
GiantStickMan 10th March 2010, 06:57 Quote
Not that I am defending the Steam pricing, and this isn't exactly relevant for new releases more so older titles, but one big difference between their online distribution model and a retail outlet is space. I picked up GRID on PC for all of about AU$10 in a shop because they were desperate to flog it off and clear space on the shelves for the next big title. Steam's price was easily 3 times this but then it's not like they need to clear space on their shelves so to speak.
The thing that gets me is the discrepancy in price between regions. Borderlands was cheaper by a large margin in the US compared to Australia on launch, same with Left 4 Dead 2 (which i ended up buying on the US store so i got the uncensored version anyways). That doesn't make much sense to me.
Elton 10th March 2010, 07:01 Quote
Steam has an in-discrepancy with exchange rates.
general22 10th March 2010, 07:55 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrior24_7

What?!Are you kidding me?!!! So I guess they're making a mint off of the pirates as well?!! You said that like I'm part of some criminal enterprise..."GASP"! You trade-in games...arrest that man!!! Damn right I do, I also buy used games! You see, the key word is "buy", something that the vast majority of PC do not do. Reselling is legal under the first sales doctrine in the US...stealing is not...in ANY country! You get the same game, with the same warranty, at a cheaper price. Sorry PC, no can do! Gamestop has made more money selling used games, than selling new games! Trading in a game gets you discounts on any other games, new or used! I already know that EA and others want that used market and are working on ways to tap it or destroy it as we speak.

I am not discussing the legalities here and I am not against the second hand market in any form, but since you seem to be "waaaah support the developer", one would imagine you would buy new games so the money actually goes to the developer. As legal as the second hand market is, it probably hurts the developers nearly as much as piracy does.

Also as for your "evidence", nobody here denies PC piracy. You can pull as many gigantic numbers as you want but how many of these are actually lost sales? How many people who were potential pirates of AC2 have now gone out and bought the game thanks to their DRM? How many future sales has Ubisoft lost because of this inconvenience to customers?

Also you are taking one example of a game to say the entire PC experience is bad. It's like if I said that MW2 mp sucks on the PS3 then all PS3 games are bad. I actually saw some kind of ping seeker in MW2 the other day, OMG OUTRAGEOUS UNACCEPTABLE KILL THE PS3.
alpha0ne23 10th March 2010, 10:01 Quote
The obviours choice for consumers would be to launch a class action against Ubisoft
Warrior24_7 10th March 2010, 12:58 Quote
Quote:
I am not discussing the legalities here and I am not against the second hand market in any form, but since you seem to be "waaaah support the developer", one would imagine you would buy new games so the money actually goes to the developer.
This is the type of wayward thinking of most PC gamers who try and justify piracy! It's not about support the developer, you act like your standing up for some worthy cause or something. It's about paying for what you get. If you think you have a right to pirate, then walk into the store, snatch the game off of the shelf, and walk out! Or are you too chicken $h!t? Exactly, you are!! You're scared to do that because there are consequences if you get caught! It's stealing. Everybody knows that punks can't face consequences! They talk loud and thats it. So just like the pedophile, pervert, and identity thief, the pirate hides in the vastness of the internet to do his dirty work. Why? Because there are no consequences, you won't get caught. So it's not about DRM, prices, or the game itself. It's about "you" the PC gamer, and your willingness to steal because you feel that you can get away with it.
Quote:
As legal as the second hand market is, it probably hurts the developers nearly as much as piracy does.
First off, in order for the game to be sold "used" it had to be "purchased" first, so the developer got his cut unlike the pirate who steals the game and the developer gets nothing! So the comparison is ridiculous. I've also purchased new games at way cheaper prices with discounts from old games I've turned in. The developer got his cut. I've also purchased used games that are out of print and are no longer sold new. I've ourchased older games for old systems that are nolonger made. People turn in all kinds of games, and systems as well! You can buy a "used" 360, PS3, Wii, ect. I'd never buy a used console on the internet. I love the used market.
Quote:
Also as for your "evidence", nobody here denies PC piracy. You can pull as many gigantic numbers as you want but how many of these are actually lost sales? How many people who were potential pirates of AC2 have now gone out and bought the game thanks to their DRM? How many future sales has Ubisoft lost because of this inconvenience to customers?
Every last one of them were lost sales! Every last one! You played the game without paying for it...you stole the game...period! So don't blame DRM, which goes unnoticed to people who pay for their games, keep their PC's clean, and they're legit. The people to blame are the hackers, who interrupted EVERYONE'S enjoyment by attacking the servers and trying to bring them down.
Quote:
Also you are taking one example of a game to say the entire PC experience is bad. It's like if I said that MW2 mp sucks on the PS3 then all PS3 games are bad. I actually saw some kind of ping seeker in MW2 the other day, OMG OUTRAGEOUS UNACCEPTABLE KILL THE PS3.
In the grand scheme of things, all I want to do is game! Thats it. So with that said, anything that interferes with that goal, I avoid. The entire PC experience is not bad, but the majority of it is when compared to the console experience. It sucks. It's a hassle. Don't believe me? Then just read the forums, any PC forum! It's a b!tch fest of glitches and gaffes, "the game won't do this", "the game won't do that", "the game won't work", blah, blah, blah. Really, all these people are trying to do is play the game!

I'm old school, I pay for my games, it's my skills vs yours, my PC is clean, and I'm legit. So thats the enviroment I'm looking to play in. Just look at what happened to AC2, why put up with that? Hell even MW2! The online experience in these and other PC games suck! PC games are under constant duress, and now...attack, from the hackers, cheaters, and thieves of the industry. The devs try to keep up with patches, can't, and give up. Then the game goes to $h!t, and the inmates are running the asylum. With the games being multi-platform, and no real difference between them... why? Why put up with it? I could get into other areas of problems with the PC but those are not the point. I talking from a pure gaming standpoint right now. Why put up with this type of BS when I don't have to? I can clearly see why M$ and the other console makers are so vigilant in keeping these people off of their networks and the like, with mass bannings, fines and jail!
Warrior24_7 10th March 2010, 16:06 Quote
[QUOTE=Elton]
Quote:
Framerate issues? The PC version is utter garbage. At first the damn game didn't even work!!! You must constantly be online to even play, you also have the white screen issue, and freezing issues. The PC version is the worst version of all by far! This whole thread exist for no other reason.
Quote:
Let's see, why is this again? the DRM issue. But hey, you're entitled to your opinion. The 1st one played fine, I have it in fact, works great with AA and such on my rig.
The white screen of death, freezing issues, the servers being attacked by hackers, yeah. In my opinion, it sucks, I'll leave it right where it is...on the shelf!
Quote:
Another factless statement, the servers were attacked.
Quote:
Well you see, the server was shut down due to attacks, and it hurt the paying customers since they had to be connected to the server for the game to work. A simple online registration would suffice don't you say?
Really? But thats not what you said. You said "Yeah they have, don't under estimate the fact that a constant connection will kill servers on opening night, It's their fault for not realizing that there's more PC gamers who legitimately bought it than pirated it."-Elton. Again you were proven wrong. The servers were attacked by hackers in an effort to bring them down and hurt the company.

Quote:
Since we all know that you're not good with numbers, especially adding big numbers. So 1 million sounds big to you. Well, the numbers that you're about to see will blow you little mind. This data is over 2 months old.

http://dlb-network.com/2009/12/over-...ted-this-year/

Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 has been pirated in the PC over 4.1 million times
The Sims 3 came in second place as most pirated games in 2009 with 3,200,000 copies
Prototype in third with 2,350,000 torrented copies on PC
Need for Speed SHIFT in fourth with 2,100,000 copies torrented on PC
Street Fighter was not mentioned because they did not say what the PC's numbers were.

4 PC games, 11,750,000 million illegal downloads on the PC. Compared to 1 million on the 360? THAT IS OUTRAGEOUS!! It's out-of-control!!! M$ banned 1 million players remember? Where are the PS3 numbers hmmm? EXACTLY!!! Zero!

Wii even had quite a few games torrented but New Super Mario Brothers Wii stood out with 1,150,000 pirated copies. Nintendo also sold 10 million copies in 2 months, so didn't need the money, but they made sure they took care of that dumba$$ too!
Quote:
Well that's the conundrum, seeing as there's no tangible way we can really demo games, rent games, or even trade them in one wonders why..
Yet another very, very idiotic statement. Demos are released for PC games all the time as well the beta. The AC2 PC beta was cracked and available for download [sic], by pirates. Also, in order to "rent" or "trade-in" a game, the game must be released and "purchased"!
Quote:
Starting right where you left off, with another factless, and made up statement. "Who" said that it only occurs on the PC? Point this person out Elton, in other words..."prove it"!
Quote:
Pretty sure you did.
"Pretty sure"? Really? Prove it Elton. Now that I've asked you to back up your statement, I probably won't hear from you again.
Quote:
I'm all for DRM, as long as it's a one shot, non intrusive sort. GTA IV didn't handle it that well, but there were decent workarounds if you didn't want the online content, most games use just a simple register your copy upon installation, and no need to be connected on a server for everything.
DRM is non intrusive if you're legit.
barndoor101 10th March 2010, 16:23 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrior24_7
DRM is non intrusive if you're legit.

so if i went out and bought AC2 would i be able to play it on the train on my laptop? the answer is NO - thats intrusive.
Warrior24_7 10th March 2010, 16:32 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by barndoor101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrior24_7
DRM is non intrusive if you're legit.

so if i went out and bought AC2 would i be able to play it on the train on my laptop? the answer is NO - thats intrusive.

Hey! You could bring your "desktop" along, OR your HDTV and console!
Blademrk 10th March 2010, 17:12 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrior24_7


Yet another very, very idiotic statement. Demos are released for PC games all the time as well the beta. The AC2 PC beta was cracked and available for download [sic], by pirates. Also, in order to "rent" or "trade-in" a game, the game must be released and "purchased"!
...

Either your playing devils advocate, arguing for the sake of arguing or you honestly can't see the point the other's are trying to make.

Not all games have demos (and this counts for both consoles and PC's) however, at least for the consoles, you can go to blockbusters and rent the game or borrow a friends copy. You'd be SOL for the PC though.

Plus, once you've bought the game and finished it with a console you can trade in/sell to a friend to get money towards your next purchase. Again, this cannot be done with the majority of PC games due to the game being locked down. In the halcyon days of PC gaming, we had just as much freedom to sell our old PC games on as we do our console games now.

In an ideal world (if piracy didn't exist) both versions should be able to be sold on once you're finished with it - But, Believe me, if the publisher could get away with it, the 2nd hand console market would be tied down just as much as the PC market.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrior24_7

DRM is non intrusive if you're legit.

And in this case the DRM is not non-intrusive if your legit, you're tied to having an active net connection in order to play - for someone out in the sticks with a very flakey connection this makes the game unplayable whether the server is working fine or not.

A non-intrusive DRM is one which should not affect you at all if you've purchased a legit copy.
Volund 10th March 2010, 17:30 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrior24_7
Hey! You could bring your "desktop" along, OR your HDTV and console!

no.... no you can't... I don't carry a generator with me to school, or have the money to pay for a wireless internet/3G connection, just because I want to play a game THAT I PAID FOR!!! but, If I download the cracked version.... oh wait, I can.... other than supporting a developer (who is just intent on adding more and more DRM, and pushing consolified versions of games onto PC) there is no logical reason for me to actually buy the game, as it does not allow me to use it as I like.

The fact is, if you don't have an active Internet connection, you cannot play the game you paid for. If I am on the train/bus/ anywhere without an Internet connection, I cannot use the game I paid for.

You really are arguing for the sake of arguing now, and you aren't even making any sense
barndoor101 10th March 2010, 17:52 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volund
no.... no you can't... I don't carry a generator with me to school, or have the money to pay for a wireless internet/3G connection, just because I want to play a game THAT I PAID FOR!!! but, If I download the cracked version.... oh wait, I can.... other than supporting a developer (who is just intent on adding more and more DRM, and pushing consolified versions of games onto PC) there is no logical reason for me to actually buy the game, as it does not allow me to use it as I like.

The fact is, if you don't have an active Internet connection, you cannot play the game you paid for. If I am on the train/bus/ anywhere without an Internet connection, I cannot use the game I paid for.

You really are arguing for the sake of arguing now, and you aren't even making any sense

hes just avoiding the question because he doesnt have a valid response to it.
brave758 10th March 2010, 18:00 Quote
So the moral of this thread...... Pirates suck.
barndoor101 10th March 2010, 18:01 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by brave758
So the moral of this thread...... Pirates suck.

we already knew that. but Publishers treating their customers like pirates sucks even more.
Warrior24_7 10th March 2010, 19:19 Quote
Quote:
Either your playing devils advocate, arguing for the sake of arguing or you honestly can't see the point the other's are trying to make.
I see the point and hear the whine, I'm just not buying it (no pun intended). It's stealing, pure and simple. You can come up with all of he excuses you want, it's theft. I'm just calling it what it is, and you don't like it. If you don't think so, then walk into the store, take the game, and walk out. Then come talk to me...
Quote:
Not all games have demos (and this counts for both consoles and PC's) however, at least for the consoles, you can go to blockbusters and rent the game or borrow a friends copy. You'd be SOL for the PC though.
Then rent it, or borrow your friends copy! It's the same damn game that is on the console. As a matter of fact they even recommend that you use the 360 controller!
Quote:
Plus, once you've bought the game and finished it with a console you can trade in/sell to a friend to get money towards your next purchase. Again, this cannot be done with the majority of PC games due to the game being locked down. In the halcyon days of PC gaming, we had just as much freedom to sell our old PC games on as we do our console games now.
So why game on the PC?!! You're playing the same damn games, with a console controller to boot! So what are you going to do, trade-in a stolen game? You just proved my point! You just don't want to pay for it... that it and thats all! Call it what it is and quit making up ridiculous excuses. It's theft, and those who steal are thieves.
Quote:
In an ideal world (if piracy didn't exist) both versions should be able to be sold on once you're finished with it - But, Believe me, if the publisher could get away with it, the 2nd hand console market would be tied down just as much as the PC market.
Oh don't think that they're not trying! Gamestop made 2 billion from used games! EA is attacking that market.
http://www.tomsguide.com/us/ea-project-ten-dollars-dlc,news-5797.html?xtmc=project_ten_dollar&xtcr=1

Quote:
And in this case the DRM is not non-intrusive if your legit, you're tied to having an active net connection in order to play - for someone out in the sticks with a very flakey connection this makes the game unplayable whether the server is working fine or not.
Poor fellow, I guess he should get a console then and all of these nagging liitle problems will go away...immediately!! So I guess he can't even play the majority of his PC games because they require and active internet connection to be activated. Can't connect, can't activate can't play. That goes for any MMOs, some RTS and RPG games. He also won't be using Steam either. See, AC2 isn't the only game that requires an internet connection, it's just the latest excuse!

A non-intrusive DRM is one which should not affect you at all if you've purchased a legit copy.[/QUOTE]
Really? See above:
Stewb 10th March 2010, 20:49 Quote
I believe you are being deliberately obtuse. There is a world of difference between needing a single, one time activation online, and a constant connection needed. It is perfectly OK for me with the former, I can go home over the weekends and download updated to games/activate new ones, alll is OK. With the latter though, I can no longer play games 6 days a week. Though they say "if you have an internet connection you can play", that is all BS, I'd like to see it get through the firewalls my school has in place.... One time activation: bearable. Constant internet connection: no sale.
Warrior24_7 10th March 2010, 20:52 Quote
[QUOTE=Volund]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrior24_7
Hey! You could bring your "desktop" along, OR your HDTV and console!
Quote:
no.... no you can't... I don't carry a generator with me to school, or have the money to pay for a wireless internet/3G connection, just because I want to play a game THAT I PAID FOR!!! but, If I download the cracked version.... oh wait, I can.... other than supporting a developer (who is just intent on adding more and more DRM, and pushing consolified versions of games onto PC) there is no logical reason for me to actually buy the game, as it does not allow me to use it as I like.
First off, YOU DIDN'T PAY FOR IT!! Now, now. We both know that the REAL reason that you DIDN'T PAY FOR IT, is because just like the people predators, you can hide on the internet and get away with it. If you come out in the open, you'll get found out and delt with. You see when you're slimey, you gotta hide, you gotta sneak, you gotta lie. But when you're legit (like me) you can walk in the open.
Quote:
The fact is, if you don't have an active Internet connection, you cannot play the game you paid for. If I am on the train/bus/ anywhere without an Internet connection, I cannot use the game I paid for.

You really are arguing for the sake of arguing now, and you aren't even making any sense
You really are making excuse after excuse now, and you're not making any sense. I guess you can't play any MMOs either, or activate any games that require online activation to be played, or play any RTS , RPG or shooting games that require an internet connection. I guess you can't play any of those Steam gamesTHAT YOU PAID FOR!!! Look, pirates are thieves who simply don't want tp pay for the merchandise they use. It is what it is.
Sloth 10th March 2010, 21:34 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrior24_7

First off, YOU DIDN'T PAY FOR IT!! Now, now. We both know that the REAL reason that you DIDN'T PAY FOR IT, is because just like the people predators, you can hide on the internet and get away with it. If you come out in the open, you'll get found out and delt with. You see when you're slimey, you gotta hide, you gotta sneak, you gotta lie. But when you're legit (like me) you can walk in the open.


You really are making excuse after excuse now, and you're not making any sense. I guess you can't play any MMOs either, or activate any games that require online activation to be played, or play any RTS , RPG or shooting games that require an internet connection. I guess you can't play any of those Steam gamesTHAT YOU PAID FOR!!! Look, pirates are thieves who simply don't want tp pay for the merchandise they use. It is what it is.
And you know he didn't pay for it... how? He said he bought a legitimate copy. If you're going to make an arguement at least use facts, even if your logic is flawed. Following your example I may as well say you're a pedophile who hides this fact by trolling the internets rather than coming out in the open with your sick fetish. But that would just be petty name calling and gets us nowhere.

Now, the simple fact is, if he doesn't have an internet connection he can't play MMOs either. But that is by the very design of the game requiring a connection to other players. Assassin's Creed 2 and Silent Hunter 5 do not require other players, as such they should be available for play regardless of internet connection. However, Ubisoft's DRM requires an always on internet connection which prevents him from playing wherever he chooses.

Let me put this in terms that might relate to you better. You have an Xbox 360 I assume, is this correct? And you possibly own Halo 3, is this correct? And you bought both of those items legitimately, correct? Assuming all of those are true, let's do a little pretending. If you want to play Halo 3 online you need to have internet access, this is a given. But, let's pretend you don't. Let's also pretend you only have one controller. You can't play a multiplayer match of Halo 3. Now taking this fact, let's pretend you want to play through the singeplayer campaign instead. Normally you'd be able to, but let's pretend Microsoft copied Ubisoft's DRM for Halo 3 and required you to be connected to Xbox Live to play. Since you have no internet access like we said earlier, you would not be able to play the singleplayer campaign either because you could not connect to the DRM. That would be restricting you, the legitimate gamer, from playing Halo 3 even in a singleplayer mode on your own legitimate console.


On a side note, players are able to play games purchased on Steam even with no internet connection. Steam can operate in offline mode allowing players to still access their games assuming there is no additional DRM related to those games. Data obviously won't go to the SteamCloud, but it will operate perfectly fine on your local machine.
Volund 10th March 2010, 21:36 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrior24_7

First off, YOU DIDN'T PAY FOR IT!! Now, now. We both know that the REAL reason that you DIDN'T PAY FOR IT, is because just like the people predators, you can hide on the internet and get away with it. If you come out in the open, you'll get found out and delt with. You see when you're slimey, you gotta hide, you gotta sneak, you gotta lie. But when you're legit (like me) you can walk in the open.

First off, I pay for every game I play, I don't download games illegally, even to see if I like them, I base my purchasing decisions on reviews, and playing the game on other people's systems.

I have not purchased/downloaded/played/cracked AS2, as I refuse to support a company that decides that this level of DRM is a good idea. I do however, crack my games when DRM cripples me when I want to play my game, and the DRM makes that impossible.

Stop assuming that we all pirate games, and get down off of your pedestal, it is just making you look like an ass.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrior24_7
You really are making excuse after excuse now, and you're not making any sense. I guess you can't play any MMOs either, or activate any games that require online activation to be played, or play any RTS , RPG or shooting games that require an internet connection. I guess you can't play any of those Steam games THAT YOU PAID FOR!!! Look, pirates are thieves who simply don't want tp pay for the merchandise they use. It is what it is.

No, I can't play MMOs, or any game that has multiplayer elements :(, and neither do I expect to. however, I do expect a single player game to be playable anytime, anywhere, without needing an internet or server connection to play. I'm perfectly happy to validate my games, to imput key codes, register, make an account, whatever, but after that, I don't expect to be tied to a developers servers for life.

Anyways, I can play those steam games I paid for, they have a nice "offline mode" option, so I don't need to be connected to the servers.

You really need to see that most of us are not defending piracy here, we are simply arguing against draconian DRM that hurts those who pay for the game. Along with that, you need to stop insulting us like we are those evil pirates who must have killed your cat when you were a kid or something :|, there is no legitimate excuse for the rage you have brought to this topic otherwise.

You also need to stop telling us all to buy consoles, those of us who want to, will, on our own accord. It's just like telling a PC user to buy a Mac if they don't want to, or telling a Linux user to switch to windows, if they don't want to, they won't, and nothing you will say can change that.
Elton 10th March 2010, 21:58 Quote
I think Warrior may just be a console advocate.
Quote:
Really? But thats not what you said. You said "Yeah they have, don't under estimate the fact that a constant connection will kill servers on opening night, It's their fault for not realizing that there's more PC gamers who legitimately bought it than pirated it."-Elton. Again you were proven wrong. The servers were attacked by hackers in an effort to bring them down and hurt the company.

Well if you realisitically think about this, look at it from a user-base perspective, If everyone logs on at the same time, the server will be over loaded, compound it with an attack and you have a disaster.
Quote:
The white screen of death, freezing issues, the servers being attacked by hackers, yeah. In my opinion, it sucks, I'll leave it right where it is...on the shelf!

With all that said, the PC still ousts the consoles simply on the framrate argument, try jumping in the water in AC2 on the PS3.. Lagfest abounds.

So each platform has it's issues, there is no flawless platform.
Quote:
Yet another very, very idiotic statement. Demos are released for PC games all the time as well the beta. The AC2 PC beta was cracked and available for download [sic], by pirates. Also, in order to "rent" or "trade-in" a game, the game must be released and "purchased"!

Yes, I know what renting and trading in games are for..but you still didn't understand my point, there's no way you can trade in a legit game you bought for money in stores..anywhere!
Quote:
The only thing that history has shown, is that piracy on the PC will continue unabated.

There, proved it, you mentioned only PCs. Although I will admit, I'm only doing this so you can figure out what you've been saying.
Quote:
Then rent it, or borrow your friends copy! It's the same damn game that is on the console. As a matter of fact they even recommend that you use the 360 controller!

If you are saying I should borrow a console copy then that's flawed. What If i don't have a console? Or I like my Mouse and Keyboard?

If you're saying I should borrow the PC copy, then we might have an argument.
Quote:
So why game on the PC?!! You're playing the same damn games, with a console controller to boot! So what are you going to do, trade-in a stolen game? You just proved my point! You just don't want to pay for it... that it and thats all! Call it what it is and quit making up ridiculous excuses. It's theft, and those who steal are thieves.

1. I like gaming on my PC because I also do work on it, it's also called freedom of choice, I ask you, why question why i want to game on the PC?

2. The fact you're assuming that I'm stealing is a wee bit moronic, if you lump the legit customers and the pirates together, well, let's just say the backlash will be quite monstrous.

Oh boy this is going to be another fiasco ending in 500+ posts.
Warrior24_7 10th March 2010, 22:30 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stewb
I believe you are being deliberately obtuse. There is a world of difference between needing a single, one time activation online, and a constant connection needed. It is perfectly OK for me with the former, I can go home over the weekends and download updated to games/activate new ones, alll is OK. With the latter though, I can no longer play games 6 days a week. Though they say "if you have an internet connection you can play", that is all BS, I'd like to see it get through the firewalls my school has in place.... One time activation: bearable. Constant internet connection: no sale.

The phony outrage here is hilarious! Here you have PC gamers making excuse after excuse of why they pirate. It's different everytime! The latest and greatest is the need for a "constant" internet connection. But you have a whole genre of PC games that not only require you to be constantly online, but charge you monthly for the privilege! Where is the outrage?!! Where? It's a joke! It's phony! You're not playing any Steam games (that you paid for) without being online...constantly!!! You're also paying a premium for that privilege as well! Again, where is all the pent up outrage?!! Heres the sad truth, when you call people out for what they are, they get mad. Why? Don't they know? So lets just be honest. It wasn't "hackers" that attacked Ubisoft's servers...it was PC gamers. It's not the "pirates" stealing games...it's PC gamers. It's not the "hackers", "cheaters", and "thieves" ruining the multi-player experience for everybody...it's PC gamers! This is the PC gamer doing this to himself. Thats why I'm soooo glad I have the option to game on consoles, and support M$, Sony, and Nintendo 100% in their efforts to ban by the millions! We don't want the $h!t in our neighborhood! You think PC DRM is tough, how about having not just the game not working, but the console is banned...for life!!

Yep, you get a life sentence for hacking, cheating, and stealing, over there and everybody knows it! Do that at your own risk, because if caught, you know the consequences. Some people buy a "new" console and learn their lesson, and others need to taught again. But guess what, the console is thriving! DRM and life sentences be damned! Gamers are willing to spend the money twice!! The gamers are happy, the devs are happy, people are gaming and making money! Why can't this be for the PC side of the hobby? Why is PC gaming becoming so corrosive and combative? Devs vs PC gamers. It sucks.
Elton 10th March 2010, 23:17 Quote
Quote:
The phony outrage here is hilarious! Here you have PC gamers making excuse after excuse of why they pirate.

The outrage is that you apply a blanket statement to the legit and pirating PC gamers.
Quote:
The latest and greatest is the need for a "constant" internet connection. But you have a whole genre of PC games that not only require you to be constantly online, but charge you monthly for the privilege! Where is the outrage?!! Where?

A constant connection for a single player game like AC2? That's outrageous. A constant connection for an MMO that has an online fee? i can still choose not to play.
Quote:
You're not playing any Steam games (that you paid for) without being online...constantly!!!

Steam's got an offline mode that allows you to play games as w/o a connection as long as the game in quesiton has no other DRM.
Quote:
You're also paying a premium for that privilege as well! Again, where is all the pent up outrage?!!

I don't pay for Steam, yes it sells games, yes i have to activate my game on steam, but i don't pay for it directly like a monthly fee.
Quote:
It wasn't "hackers" that attacked Ubisoft's servers...it was PC gamers.
Wat.
Quote:
It's not the "pirates" stealing games...it's PC gamers. It's not the "hackers", "cheaters", and "thieves" ruining the multi-player experience for everybody...it's PC gamers!

Actually it is, the majority of PC gamers and all gamers don't pirate or cheat or steal, just the minority, but you have blown it out of proportion.
Quote:
Thats why I'm soooo glad I have the option to game on consoles, and support M$, Sony, and Nintendo 100% in their efforts to ban by the millions!

You're glad to support a closed market? One where you are forced to do something their way all the time? I'll pass, I like modding my games.
Quote:
You think PC DRM is tough, how about having not just the game not working, but the console is banned...for life!!

Console banning affects only the ones who deserve it, DRM affects moreso the customer than the pirate(seeing as pirates circumvent the measures), DRM is worse since it's mainly the paying customer that takes it up the ass.
Quote:
Gamers are willing to spend the money twice!!

Stupid gamers are, most of us aren't made of cash.
AstralWanderer 10th March 2010, 23:24 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kúsař
...there's no easy way to tell Ubisoft you don't buy their games because of DRM or price - they'll blame it on piracy...
Well actually there is - go post on their forums, specifically this thread...

While I don't think a DDoS on Ubi's servers is the most ethical action (assuming it was one and not just Ubisoft underestimating traffic) it does make the point for those who (most unwisely in my view) bought into this system, that it places their purchases at risk.
general22 10th March 2010, 23:31 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrior24_7

The phony outrage here is hilarious! Here you have PC gamers making excuse after excuse of why they pirate. It's different everytime! The latest and greatest is the need for a "constant" internet connection. But you have a whole genre of PC games that not only require you to be constantly online, but charge you monthly for the privilege! Where is the outrage?!! Where? It's a joke! It's phony! You're not playing any Steam games (that you paid for) without being online...constantly!!! You're also paying a premium for that privilege as well! Again, where is all the pent up outrage?!! Heres the sad truth, when you call people out for what they are, they get mad. Why? Don't they know? So lets just be honest. It wasn't "hackers" that attacked Ubisoft's servers...it was PC gamers. It's not the "pirates" stealing games...it's PC gamers. It's not the "hackers", "cheaters", and "thieves" ruining the multi-player experience for everybody...it's PC gamers! This is the PC gamer doing this to himself. Thats why I'm soooo glad I have the option to game on consoles, and support M$, Sony, and Nintendo 100% in their efforts to ban by the millions! We don't want the $h!t in our neighborhood! You think PC DRM is tough, how about having not just the game not working, but the console is banned...for life!!

I love your ridiculous use of hyperbole and straw man arguments, keep it up it's quite enjoying to read.
Blademrk 10th March 2010, 23:49 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrior24_7
I see the point and hear the whine, I'm just not buying it (no pun intended). It's stealing, pure and simple. You can come up with all of he excuses you want, it's theft. I'm just calling it what it is, and you don't like it. If you don't think so, then walk into the store, take the game, and walk out. Then come talk to me...

No you obviously don't, 'cos I'm not endorsing pirating or stealing - I've never pirated anything and I buy all my games & DVDs (running out of physical space too because I never sell/trade them in either).
My point was you *should* be able to rent or borrow PC games just as you can rent Console games.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrior24_7

Then rent it, or borrow your friends copy! It's the same damn game that is on the console. As a matter of fact they even recommend that you use the 360 controller!

My point was If you want to play it on the PC you can't rent it or borrow your friends copy & not everyone has (or wants) a console or they may want the game for additional content (like user generated mods on Oblivion for example) or perhaps ([Deity of your choice] forbid) prefer a keyboard and mouse over a joypad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrior24_7

So why game on the PC?!!

See last point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrior24_7
You're playing the same damn games, with a console controller to boot!
As I've said, not everyone has or indeed wants a console.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrior24_7

So what are you going to do, trade-in a stolen game?

I'm talking about legit games not pirated ones.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrior24_7

You just proved my point! You just don't want to pay for it... that it and thats all! Call it what it is and quit making up ridiculous excuses. It's theft, and those who steal are thieves.
again, I'm not talking about pirated games. Just because you think EVERY PC user is a pirate does not make it true.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrior24_7

Oh don't think that they're not trying! Gamestop made 2 billion from used games! EA is attacking that market.
http://www.tomsguide.com/us/ea-project-ten-dollars-dlc,news-5797.html?xtmc=project_ten_dollar&xtcr=1

yes, and that is a good way to go about it free DLC to those who buy the game new and a small charge to those who buy 2nd hand and want the same additional content - they're not forced to buy the extra content in order to play the game and they're not forcing you to stay online 100% of the time to play a single player game either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrior24_7

Poor fellow, I guess he should get a console then and all of these nagging liitle problems will go away...immediately!!
nope, 'fraid not - I've got a friend who doesn't have the internet at all (and no PC) but has a 360 and was having loads of problems with a game because he couldn't patch it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrior24_7
So I guess he can't even play the majority of his PC games because they require and active internet connection to be activated. Can't connect, can't activate can't play. That goes for any MMOs, some RTS and RPG games. He also won't be using Steam either.
I said a flaky connection (up and down all the time - as a matter of fact my connection to Steam has just quit on me - I can still play all the games I've bought and downloaded on it, just can't download any I've not got currently installed or purchase any more until it comes back up) not no connection at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrior24_7

See, AC2 isn't the only game that requires an internet connection, it's just the latest excuse!
Excuse for what? I'm not going to get it on the PC legit or otherwise (I've already said I don't pirate software or anything else).
As it happens, I've already got it and completed it on the 360.

If I wanted it on the PC (and it didn't include this extremely restrictive DRM) I would have bought it - I do occasionally buy games on multiple platforms (I've got a few games on both the PC and either the Xbox/360/PS2/Gamecube).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Me

A non-intrusive DRM is one which should not affect you at all if you've purchased a legit copy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrior24_7
Really? See above:
Yes really, Once I've activated a game I see no reason to have to have an active net connection unless your playing an online multiplayer game.

Edit: And if you think I'm an irate PC gamer take a look at my 360 profile, I mainly game on that - but I still like playing the odd game on my PC too.
For a breakdown of my gaming habits:- http://raptr.com/Blademrk
javaman 11th March 2010, 00:00 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrior24_7
/snip

awww f**k its you. I refuse to read any more of this thread for the sake of my blood pressure. someone just mail me the funny bits.


On topic, copying games baaad....oh wait, no it isn't. Like DVD's its better to have a back up in case of fire, theft, or drunken frisbee. I've never pirated a PC game yet as a Kid without a job I certainly pirated Playstation games. Heck almost everyone I know plays pirated or copied wii games for one reason or another.

One point, whats all this plug in and play with consoles? 40mins for GTA 4 to patch itself. Fifa10 corrupted after patching. Its not exactly a bed of roses for consoles either.

Request to bindi: If I partake any further in off topic console vs PC debate feel free to swing the ban hammer at me.........for the sake of my sanity.
Elton 11th March 2010, 00:07 Quote
Now that you bring it up, the whole patching on consoles, really really suck.
Stewb 11th March 2010, 00:18 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrior24_7
The phony outrage here is hilarious! Here you have PC gamers making excuse after excuse of why they pirate. It's different everytime! The latest and greatest is the need for a "constant" internet connection. But you have a whole genre of PC games that not only require you to be constantly online, but charge you monthly for the privilege! Where is the outrage?!! Where? It's a joke! It's phony!

I don't play those games. I can't. So I don't complain. However I do play single player games. I like to play single player games at school using steam offline mode (or CDs). But I can't when they require a permanent internet connection. Notice, I am using short sentences to keep things simple for you.
Quote:
You're not playing any Steam games (that you paid for) without being online...constantly!!! You're also paying a premium for that privilege as well! Again, where is all the pent up outrage?!!

No. There is an offline mode that works perfectly well.
Quote:
Utter drivel from here on out.

Not even worth replying to that load of crap....

EDIT: And for your informarion I played most of my games on consoles before I built a new PC a few months ago:

http://profile.mygamercard.net/Strider179
barndoor101 11th March 2010, 00:50 Quote
arent there console games that require you to be connected to the net to install, patch and play? im pretty sure iv heard some of my mates complain about having to wait to download patches etc for console games they bought.

oh and warrior, dont say that every PC gamer pirates their games. it makes you look stupid and ignorant.
Stewb 11th March 2010, 00:58 Quote
Barndoor> Yes. But they only make you download the patch if you have interernet (i.e. it can detect it needs to be patched). But yes, if you have internet you have to download the patch to play online.
Blademrk 11th March 2010, 01:12 Quote
or to remain signed in to x-box live
Warrior24_7 11th March 2010, 01:36 Quote
[QUOTE=Elton]
Quote:
The phony outrage here is hilarious! Here you have PC gamers making excuse after excuse of why they pirate.
Quote:
The outrage is that you apply a blanket statement to the legit and pirating PC gamers.
No, it's simply, if the shoe fits wear it. I game on the PC and don't pirate. I also can say that and mean it.
Quote:
A constant connection for a single player game like AC2? That's outrageous. A constant connection for an MMO that has an online fee? i can still choose not to play.
This is just the type of hypocrisy and double standards that you're famous for. You can choose not to play the MMO, but can't choose not to play AC2? If you're against piracy, then stand against piracy. Don't say that you're against it, then try to justify it with stupid statements like this.
Quote:
Steam's got an offline mode that allows you to play games as w/o a connection as long as the game in quesiton has no other DRM.[
So basically it's what I said...no what he...what you said!
Quote:
I don't pay for Steam, yes it sells games, yes i have to activate my game on steam, but i don't pay for it directly like a monthly fee.
No, but you higher prices for the games, and right now the site is acting like $h!t. Wheres the outrage?!!
Quote:
It wasn't "hackers" that attacked Ubisoft's servers...it was PC gamers.
Quote:
Wat.
Yep!
Quote:
Actually it is, the majority of PC gamers and all gamers don't pirate or cheat or steal, just the minority, but you have blown it out of proportion.
Yep, of course I have. So has Ubisoft and the rest of the dev community, after a cyber attack on their servers(by their very own customers) 4 games and almost 12 million illegal downloads later... I dunno, why are these people complaining again?
Quote:
You're glad to support a closed market? One where you are forced to do something their way all the time? I'll pass, I like modding my games.
Absolutely! My games work, they're worth a little something afterward and the riff raff is held in check. Oh, btw sir could you do me a favor? Could you please drop the PC version of AC2 straight into the doo doo can on your way out? Thank you!

[QUOTE]Console banning affects only the ones who deserve it, DRM affects moreso the customer than the pirate(seeing as pirates circumvent the measures), DRM is worse since it's mainly the paying customer that takes it up the ass.
Well, my ass is fine. If yours is a little sore then maybe you should check your PC for unknown conflicting software that you didn't know about...of course.
Quote:
Stupid gamers are, most of us aren't made of cash.
Thats the difference though. It's a better place to play and the gamers know it. They're will to spend the money to be there. On the PC side, it's corrosive and combative. It's PC gamers vs the Devs.
thehippoz 11th March 2010, 01:46 Quote
the doo doo can?
Elton 11th March 2010, 01:57 Quote
Has he actually refuted my points? I'm confuzzled.
GiantStickMan 11th March 2010, 02:34 Quote
Warrior, one of the points you raise is that the console experience is easy and hassle free compared to the PC but that is not always the case. WIth the current gen of consoles you'll notice that a lot of games get patched pretty regularly to fix issues/glitches etc.
One of my first experiences with the PS3 was Burnout Paradise, which insisted on a large 300odd meg patch (when your connection is slow that isn't fun) before it would let me access all the games features. And when I declined it, it would pop up at random during gameplay (usually just as you're pulling off a daring manouvre) to tell me I need to update. I've never had that with a PC game.
The point is that the console experience isn't always a simple 'put in disc, play game' one, and they aren't immune from many of the problems you raise with PC gaming. Oh and I'd hardly call the 360 a hassle free experience when it red rings of deaths on you.
I'm not saying one format is better than the other, just that your idea of removing choice from the customer is not a valid one.
tron 11th March 2010, 08:24 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by javaman
One point, whats all thins plug in and play with consoles? 40mins for GTA 4 to patch itself. Fifa10 corrupted after patching. Its not exactly a bed of roses for consoles either.

True, console games are not always 'simple' plug and play.

To any gamer out there who listens to the 'pro-console hype' and thinks of getting the latest console just because they now think everything in console land is perfect, then let the multiplatform gamers tell you it's not perfect at all.

Like others have mentioned (even with good internet connections) try to game on a PS3 when the latest firmware update or glitch-busting game patch is required, and then sit down and watch your clock.

Not to mention the incredibly slow game loading times, level loading times and data reading and saving times on the PS3 compared to PC. Yes you can upgrade a PS3's hard drive, but it's still slow compared to PC.

The list of benefits of gaming on the PC go on and on to include such things as having options for advanced AA, higher framerates, FRAPS recordings, greater resolution choices and screen (monitor/TV) choices, better graphical draw distance due to higher PC memory, greater support for various peripheral choices etc. ...
tron 11th March 2010, 08:38 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrior24_7
So I guess he can't even play the majority of his PC games because they require and active internet connection to be activated. Can't connect, can't activate can't play. That goes for any MMOs, some RTS and RPG games. He also won't be using Steam either. See, AC2 isn't the only game that requires an internet connection, it's just the latest excuse!

Not all PC gamers play MMO, RTS and RPG type of games.

So for me, the whole culture of being tied to the internet in order to play a game is one that I'm not used to.

Of course, if I choose to play WAN multiplayer mode, then I will need internet access for that. But at least I can game on a laptop or anywhere else with poor internet access in single player mode or even LAN multiplayer mode.

I also do not own a single PC game that requires me to have a constant internet connection to play in single player mode.
tron 11th March 2010, 09:13 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by barndoor101
PC users also cant rent games from shops, and cant lend games to their friends. demos arent always made, so how am i supposed to sample a game before i buy?

someone who pirates a PC game wasnt going to be a customer anyway, so its not a sale lost.

Have you seen PC piracy figures for games that do have demos? I have known many PC gamers who come out with every excuse under the sun for downloading a cracked version of a game even when the demo was available, such as saying things like "they need to try the whole game to see if they like it".

You may have your own completely 'valid' reasons fo pirating a particular game. However, any illegal gaming is only making matters worse for all of us in the long run.

Like Arguer24_7 says, if you are so sure about your ethics, then why not walk into a shop and snatch the game disc from the shelf and tell everyone that you are just going to 'demo' the game. :)

You can pirate a movie and you can remain sure that next year the publisher will continue to make movies.

Pirate an XBOX game and you can be sure to receive more XBOX releases next year.

Pirate a PC game and you increase the likelihood that the PC game publisher will find the piracy download rates so scary to either abandon the PC version of future games or create even worse DRM.

If you already know that the piracy rates are forcing developers to rethink their support for the PC platform, then all forms of pirate downloads, regardless of whether or not it would have been a lost sale or not (or just a demo), will hurt all of us in the end.

For others who decide to protest against this DRM by encouraging people to do even more piracy, you're just shooting yourselves in the foot.

The way to protest properly is to speak out on Ubi's forums and do not touch their game in any legal or illegal form, and do not buy it on any gaming platform.
general22 11th March 2010, 10:43 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by tron
The way to protest properly is to speak out on Ubi's forums and do not touch their game in any legal or illegal form, and do not buy it on any gaming platform.

This is what I try and advocate but really its never going to happen. Whenever some bad decisions on DRM or even game features such as dedicated servers are made, the game is hugely pirated.

I'll go out on a limb and say most pirates are proud of what they do and they seem to think they are "sticking to the man" or "fighting the establishment" or some related BS. I mean it's one thing to pirate software but I really hate people who justify piracy by glorifying it.

Now AC2 will be pirated a lot because people will think they are fighting the evil DRM or something.
barndoor101 11th March 2010, 11:02 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by tron
Have you seen PC piracy figures for games that do have demos? I have known many PC gamers who come out with every excuse under the sun for downloading a cracked version of a game even when the demo was available, such as saying things like "they need to try the whole game to see if they like it".

You may have your own completely 'valid' reasons fo pirating a particular game. However, any illegal gaming is only making matters worse for all of us in the long run.

Like Arguer24_7 says, if you are so sure about your ethics, then why not walk into a shop and snatch the game disc from the shelf and tell everyone that you are just going to 'demo' the game. :)

You can pirate a movie and you can remain sure that next year the publisher will continue to make movies.

Pirate an XBOX game and you can be sure to receive more XBOX releases next year.

Pirate a PC game and you increase the likelihood that the PC game publisher will find the piracy download rates so scary to either abandon the PC version of future games or create even worse DRM.

If you already know that the piracy rates are forcing developers to rethink their support for the PC platform, then all forms of pirate downloads, regardless of whether or not it would have been a lost sale or not (or just a demo), will hurt all of us in the end.

For others who decide to protest against this DRM by encouraging people to do even more piracy, you're just shooting yourselves in the foot.

The way to protest properly is to speak out on Ubi's forums and do not touch their game in any legal or illegal form, and do not buy it on any gaming platform.

i wasnt saying that pirating was right - i was pointing out that a publisher asking us to buy a 30 quid game without a demo is wrong.

when i was at uni, money wasnt abundant, and even though i did buy a few games i couldnt afford most. Im not proud but i did download a few games - but any game i played for more than 2 hours i would go out and buy (stalker and oblivion spring to mind, not forgetting FM). most of the games would be installed, played for an hour then uninstalled when i realised they were crap. then i would be glad i didnt just blindly go out and buy it, because PC gamers cant recoup most of their money with trade-ins.

I have bought my fair share of dogs, as im sure everyone has, and i dont really want to spend money on something that will just sit on my shelf gathering dust.
theskirrid 11th March 2010, 14:52 Quote
I've made a stochastic analysis of MrsWarboys24_7 posts.

I predict [quote] the next...post contains! wooooords! and lots of them? With any meaning!!! destroyed? in the crossfire [quote] of...insanity!!![quote]!!!!
PureSilver 11th March 2010, 17:39 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by tron
I also do not own a single PC game that requires me to have a constant internet connection to play in single player mode.

+1. Not one. What would I do when I'm on the move? Or when the college's internet dies? I have no interest in a system that eats into my already limited monthly bandwidth. Ubisoft's system sucks and I certainly won't buy (or download, actually) of the games which feature this. Why, oh why, didn't they just release it on Steam?
Volund 11th March 2010, 17:55 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by PureSilver
Why, oh why, didn't they just release it on Steam?

they have released it on steam.... only problem is that they still have their DRM enabled over Steam's system
PureSilver 11th March 2010, 18:25 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volund
they have released it on steam.... only problem is that they still have their DRM enabled over Steam's system

Ack, that is of course what I meant. Allow me to rephrase; why, oh why, didn't they consider Steam's DRM sufficient instead of tacking on additional annoyance?

That goes (to a lesser degree) also for games on Steam that also use GFWL.
Sloth 11th March 2010, 18:45 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by PureSilver

That goes (to a lesser degree) also for games on Steam that also use GFWL.
I can't tell you how many times I've tried to use the Steam friends list to join a friend's game only to see the text grayed out because GFWL is used instead. Leaves a bad taste in my mouth every time I try to play DoW2.
Rkiver 12th March 2010, 19:41 Quote
Well they sent out a mail about it...free content eh?
himaro101 31st March 2010, 12:20 Quote
what i dont get is why use this DRM... i have a connection that dies at night and i am always suffering from poor connection quality (never use talktalk people....never)
this is whats stopping me from buying the games because i know i'll be constantly being stopped and having to wait.
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