Ubisoft's DRM servers go down, games unplayable
Ubisoft's new always-online DRM has been brought to it's knees by server problems that stop games running.
The new system requires players to always be online when they play games, even in singleplayer, or try to save their progress. With the servers down though, nobody can play at all and fans are spewing their outrage into the official forums.
Although Ubisoft promised when it announced the system that it would monitor servers 24/7 and ensure that there was constant support, customers have been cut off from content for 10 hours and Ubisoft's response from Community Managers seems slow-moving.
“I don’t have any clear information on what the issue is since I’m not in the office, but clearly the extended downtime and lengthy login issues are unacceptable, particularly as I’ve been told these servers are constantly monitored," said Ubi rep Ubi.Vigil on the official forums, via RPS.
"I’ll do what I can to get more information on what the issue is here first thing tomorrow and push for a resolution and assurance this won’t happen in the future. I realise that’s not ideal but there’s only so much I can do on a weekend as I’m not directly involved with the server side of this system.”
Ubisoft's position isn't strengthened by the fact that the new DRM has reportedly been cracked within a few days, with unconfirmed reports of workarounds for pirated versions of the games meaning that only legitimate customers are losing out.
Ubisoft has commented that "exceptional demand" has toppled the servers and said that players trying to start a game may have problems, while those who are currently playing should be fine. What's concerning is that Ubisoft didn't anticipate this "exceptional demand" over the launch weeks for two big PC games and the first real test of the system.
Many sites and fans are now calling for Ubisoft to abandon this DRM method and apologise to fans. Let us know your thoughts in the forums.
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+1 to that
And we always say about servers being shut down after a game is only used by a few people? Epic Fail!
http://testinc.incgamers.com/News/21338/ubi-blames-assassins-creed-ii-drm-woes-on-server-attacks
And they wonder why we hate DRM
Plays fine according to people who have pirated the game.
HaHa!
</nelson>
Hopefully this will serve as a good example of why this system sounds good in theory but is near impossible in actuality!
Anyone else concerned for On Live after this problem? Assassins Creed 2 only gets save data and loading keys from the server and fell over under demand, OnLive indends to do everything that way...
When oh when will they realise that DRM simply does not work and all it's doing is irritating everyone involved:
-Comsumers who get restricted on their legitimate purchase
-Pirates who have to spend an afternoon cracking the latest crock of s**t attempt by short sighted publishers
-Developers who get extreme bad press, damaging reputation and sales and wasted money invested in the pile of crap software that is annoying their target audience!
Assassins Creed better be working by the time I get home and want to play it...
I knew it was going to fall over, but I never expected it to fall over this quickly.
Go team!
I love the way they are blaming this on pirates, though. In the war on
terrorpiracy, the more you can blame on them, the better.Guess everyone seen this already but;
http://www.geekologie.com/2010/02/piracy_the_benefit_of_not_payi.php
+ 1 from me too.
some folks i talked to played silent hunter 5 just fine....
"you wouldn't download a car wouldn't you"
I bet if it was physically possible, millions of cars would be downloaded, it just shows how out of touch these people really are.
Not only do they use an analogy which is rediculous, but also that have nothing apart from DRM which doesn't work, forcing people into a purchase which can't work.
As people have been saying since 2001, move with the times, or get left behind.
/now wheres that car download I was looking for.
watch out when u click the link. confirmed spyware pretending to be an anti-spyware.
True? Sorry, I read that site almost everyday, haven't seen that.
multiplayer require constant internet connection, sure. but Assassin's Creed 2 is a single player game, it shouldn't require more than a disk check or steam verify.
This is just another example.
Let me guess, your AV is Kaspersky, and it is reporting some Iframe Trojan.
On topic: Shock horror..... o wait it's not.
Just another company spending millions on a DRM system which only turn customers away instead of putting that money into developing a good game with lots of content which doesn't ask the user to repeat the same things for 6 hours of average gameplay....
Buy games worth their value (SupCom 2) and pirate games that aren't, simple. It is funny that most of the games I pirate and never buy are installed for about 2 hours and then deleted. Shocking the number that go through this process, i'm almost constantly defraggling my hard drive cause of it... Grrrr!
Thatâs another company that has underestimated the amount of people trying to use their new games.
EA had 400% more users playing BC2 over the weekend resulting in lots of problems and lengthy periods of server downtime.
Wake up!
PC gaming is dieing??? I think not.
UBI can poke their DRM, i will not be buying into it until its removed. I guess that stands for a lot of people too. Way to go to lose money UBI.
I wouldn't use SupCom2 as an example of value there, seeing as they took pretty much everything out of the original, and added research as a resource.
exactly, these companies will put their games on platforms other than the PC where the users are stupid enough to spend 45 quid on a game!
history has shown that if you are reasonable with your DRM, or reasonable with your prices (in both cases steam, but there are others), people will prefer to buy the game not pirate it. Valve themselves have said that the total revenue gained from a steam sale (for a given time period) is several times more than the normal revenue for that product.
some people just wont pay for stuff, nothing you can do about it, its life, much as the software writers try, they will never be able to stop pirating, and with more and more tools available to pirates, its not getting harder for them to copy the games.
they should make them cheaper for end users, and hopefully, more will buy the software, but there will still be those who wont pay.
As said it's the legit customers who are getting hosed. Simple fix, get the crack online.
http://torrentfreak.com/ubisofts-uber-drm-cracked-within-a-day-100304/
edit: and there is more, the US release of Assassins Creed is this coming Tuesday.....
Not quite for me. Two games added to my "pirate and see if I like, then delete" games.
+1. I was wondering what alternatives there are to Steam that are nonpartisan, or don't charge to host games (because there will be a few studios that won't release on Steam because they don't want to pay the fees or support Valve, their rivals). We really need a kind of universal DRM that all the studios sign up to (something like Steam) that everybody can get along with, that way we'd be less likely to get retarded s*** like this. Seems to me it would also be a useful system for putting people in contact with dedicated servers etc.
We need a full-blown facepalm smiley for you, the forehead-smiting just doesn't cut it in your case. When will console makers learn there's no honour amongst thieves? You're deluding yourself if you think consolites are any less guilty than PC players; worse, since console gamers get so ruthlessly shafted on the price of their games, the studios are even more incentivised to crack down on console pirates... If the studios want to stop piracy, they need to simultaneously make it harder to steal the game and more attractive to buy it. Steam, which is a mostly unintrusive and helpful DRM system also softens the blow by offering endless redownloads free of charge and automatic patching, in addition to greatly reduced prices. It's a pretty good example of what good DRM can be.
You missed the point.
The fact that you have to wait 15min - 10hrs to log-in to a SINGLE PLAYER GAME is in and of itself assanine.
Everything else has been said by everyone else.
Uh, I meant the sales - the people that set Steam's prices are the publishers, not Valve.
One of the reasons prices are high in games or any other industry with this kind of rampant problem...is theft! The PC side of the hobby is costing developers, publishers, and on the bottom end "gamers" more. You have to be some kinda dumba$$ to believe otherwise! And you do of course. The simple solution is to stop putting your multi-million dollar, high profile, AAA, "console game" on the PC so it can be stolen. The same retards that will spend $500 on a DX10 video card that can't play DX10 games or even do AA for that matter, are stealing $50 games! There is no excuse for this, so quit trying to make them. There was nothing wrong with Assassin's Creed 2, it "is" a AAA (console) title on to the PC! If it's not your cup of tea then don't play it, leave it alone. Why steal a game that you don't like? The console makers are the only ones fighting back against these idiots with mass bannings, high fines, and jail time! The effect is clear, there is waaay less piracy on the console as opposed to the PC! The games are better, the online play experience is better, and you know that you're getting a better play experience overall. There is nothing more frustrating (maybe that the game doesn't work) then playing one of your favorite games, only to find out that it's been hacked into by a bunch of #$^&$! So, don't publish on the PC. That is the most effective, non-intrusive, DRM ever created, and everybody wins! The developers make more money on consoles anyway, and the player has a better enviroment to play in, and you're stamping out one of the greatest scourges in gaming .
Does he have schizophrenia?
Apparently everybody means 1/2 of the gaming population right? :p
The only thing that history has shown, is that piracy on the PC will continue unabated. Thats it and that all. Theft is where it's at on the platform. Make no mistake about it. It makes no sense to continue to develop multi-million dollar, AAA games, on a weezing and declining platform, only to have that game stolen! All of that money and effort gone! Why?!! I hope UBISOFT leaned a lesson here, as they were the ones running their mouths earlier about DRM. Not only was the game stolen, the company is now being attacked and their user base effected! There is a reason common sense people avoid bad neighborhoods, the chances of you being assaulted are greatly increased! Once UBISOFT gets plooked in the booty a few more times by PC gamers maybe they'll catch the hint. Right now the PC is a bad neighborhood and the ghetto area of gaming. Develope, publish and game at your own risk.
Yes. Theft. Were the five previous links supplied to modchip stores not enough to convince you that piracy is equally prevalent on the console, as on the PC? Perhaps you'd like some more? What you're seeing is the debilitating effect of intellectual property theft, committed on consoles.
Not true. We have Steam bans, various anti-cheat software, but of course what you've omitted to mention is the reason console makers are cracking down on console players who don't follow the rules is because you are their cash cow. You are nothing but a big, fat, source of revenue thanks to the hefty premium you pay for games that are released on PC at a third of the price with infinitely more flexibility (incidentally, when you say the consoles get better games - actually, they get the same games). They don't want people upsetting the artificially inflated prices of console games any more than they want people pirating PC games.
If it's clear, where's the evidence? From over here, a million Xbox bans looks pretty severe, you know?
If it's hacking you're worried about, really, it's consoles you ought to avoid. From the latest big release alone, after all. I'm not going to respond to any half-baked response your 13-year-old arse can cook up - I've already allowed the thread to wander far, far off topic - but I just want you to know that you have my everlasting contempt for your complete inability to construct a coherent argument in any of the four threads you've posted in ;)
[/HANDBAGS]
Oh no, again? Lock up all tools before you continue. You lost last time you debated me, this will be no different. Oh, I forgot to tell you...I'm anti-pirate, anti-piracy, anti-hacker, anti-cheat, anti-exploit, ect. I like to play fair (my skills vs yours) and I "pay" for my games, so there is yet another reason to hate me. "EVERYBODY" wins! The devs, publishers, gamers and the industry as a whole, everybody! Most so called "PC gamers" (ummm...you!) own consoles anyway, and those that don't will, if they want to play AAA games. If not, then die on the vine.
Well Piracy occurs on every platform, even on cartridge based game systems, so saying that it only occurs on the PC is simple a denial of truth.
It makes no sense to develop games for that so coveted platform that just had 1 million banned from it because of piracy.
Yeah they have, don't under estimate the fact that a constant connection will kill servers on opening night. It's their fault for not realizing that there's more PC gamers who legitimately bought it than pirated it.
The problem with this statement is that there are people who legitimately bought it, are you implying that someone should screw over paying customers for the sake of a few dollars?
That's horribly flawed thinking, I do legitimately buy my games, but there's something in knowing that you have a freedom of choice.
Not to mention that AC2 has some framerate issues on the consoles, why would I pay the same price for something that looks better on the PC?
Also I might add that I'm against Piracy, but in all honesty and being realistic, it exists everywhere.
DVDs, Blu-Rays, Console games, PC games, Music, all forms of entertainment short of Records are pirated, the thing is whether or not you do it, and the industry should not under any circumstance screw over the paying customers, because at the end of the day, doesn't the industry keep the consumer happy? It exists for that reason.
Likewise my PS2 was modified to boot from a hard drive again allowing me to play imports like Grandia 3, Grandia Xtreme, Xenosaga 1 and 3 (2 was released in PAL strangely enough).
With the latest generation of consoles though i haven't had a need to do this and my 360 and PS3 are both unmodified and will be staying that way.
Point is mod-chips are not always used for piracy.
You be trollin' here... this is a hardware enthusiast forum, don't go around calling us retards because of how we decide to spend our money....
Yes, there is something wrong with Assassin's creed 2, it is called useless DRM that hurts the legitimate, paying customer. If I BUY a game, I expect to be able to play it, when I want to play it, not only when the server feels like playing nice. in that same vein, what happens years down the line when Ubisoft gets sold off, goes bankrupt, or decides to stop supporting the game, then, I can no longer play the game that I paid for. Really, cracking the game is looking like an extremely nice option.
Obviously you haven't been playing CS:S or any other VAC games lately.... or WoW, or Guild Wars, or Runescape, WC3, or (wow, can't think of games this late at night).... well, really any online game with any kind of multiplayer element
Just because you pay more, doesn't mean that you are getting a better game... all you are getting is the same game, optimized for console controllers, and gimped graphics
No, just.... no.... If I wanted to listen to a bunch of 12 and 13 year olds yelling about penises, your mom, and mudkipz, I'd either go to /b/, or start working at camp again.
"everybody", obviously means everyone except PC gamers.
Sounds to me like you need to stop trolling, No one here accepts your opinions, as they are completely invalid.
Um... You are aware that piracy on consoles is just as prevalant as the PC and has been for some time, right? Name any current gen console and I can tell you there are people playing its games illegally. PS3, 360, PSP, DS, Wii... proprietary media doesn't work either, look at the PSP's UMD, there's always a work around, and there's always going to be people who will try and defeat the copy protection if for no other reason than to prove they can do it.
Say that your theory is employed (even though it never would be but let's run with it) and they stop releasing games on PC, where do you think these people will turn their attention? Piracy is a problem for every industry not just gaming; and it's not limited to, or more prevalent on one system or another.
Hell, piracy has been blamed as being a major contributing factor for the poor sales and "death" of certain consoles. The Dreamcast being a prime example.
Since you don't have that problem on the console, playing the game on that looks like a extrememly nice option! So is keeping the game off of the PC, as it should've never been there in the first place! Then this would never have happened.
http://www.walmart.com/search/search-ng.do?search_constraint=2636&ic=48_0&search_query=assassins+creed
Oh you trade in games, don't you realise you are hurting the developers of the games since they don't get money from second hand sales.
Also you do realise that ignoring evidence isn't the best way to have a discussion but then again you seem more interested in just trolling anybody who replies to you.
I hope this debacle makes Ubisoft think again about treating it's paying customers in such a way.
Don't confused (some of) Warrior's valid points with troll. He's entitled to his opinion as much as anybody.
In my personal opinion - as much as I hate to admit it, he's probably right to some degree. If I was a publisher and with my business hat on, I would not develop for the PC. It's fact that console gamers pay more, they buy more, they score games higher and there is less piracy. PC gamers should not be angry at (him or) publishers, they should be angry at those who pirate PC games for killing the platform. Get the priorities straight: everything costs money, people should pay for what they enjoy. This is outside the argument for DRM btw.
There is still obviously some money to be made on PC otherwise these publishers wouldn't bother either. It's also unfair to blame piracy for this so called death of PC gaming.
The problem here is the knee-jerk reaction to the rampant piracy problem by just piling on more DRM which ultimately does little to hinder piracy at all and just punish legitimate customers. And Warrior hasn't really presented any valid points in my view other than some vitriolic rambling.
If publishers don't want to put their games on PC then that's fine, some people simply won't buy the game and publishers lose 10% or whatever small percentage of revenue that their PC port might have brought in.
On-topic, I'd quite like my single-player games that have little/no use for internet connectivity, to not require a drain on my bandwidth, ta. I'm sure that's reasonable, especially if people's broadband connections have bandwidth caps.
I'm not gonna cry "Death to DRM!" - just to the stupid DRM solutions. Steam, as many of you agree, is amazing at what it does. You buy the games, you donwload the games, you install the games on as many machines as you like, but sign in with a username to play your AAA titles (and if you tick a box, you don't even need to sign in - it's all done for you!)
Off-topic, the Xbox is fun for a more casual gaming audience than the PC attracts. It's the age-old arguments:
XBOX (or indeed any console):
Plug & Play
Connects to every TV on the planet
Cheaper on the hardware front
Guaranteed compatibility (Batman:AA, Saboteur, etc - take note)
PC:
Infinitely customisable
Better multiplayer support
Graphically superior
Steam
Controller support is a mixed bag, but with a wired Xbox controller next to the PC, it's a "best of both worlds" situation.
We're all getting the shaft from the gaming industry - we might as well get along!
On topic, I kinda want to play AC2... I am prepared to wait until it's REALLY cheap though. Hopefully all this crap will be sorted by then?
Probably not.
PS: Remember when Ubi only put a disc check on PoP and said the sales would determine the level of future DRM and everybody pirated it to hell? Yeah, I bought that game to avoid this situation. Way to go pirates.
The problem with Ubi is that their PR are completely out of touch with PC gamers. They don't ask gamers questions why they have or haven't bought this game. If they're fine with price of games or this form of DRM. And unless Ubi change their attitude they'll keep failing. Not to mention Ubi's CEO whose opinions are sometimes nearly an insults to all paying customers, that's just wrong...
I've loved AC1 and I've bought it. Of course as there was no playable demo(at least I couldn't find one) I've waited until it's price was "an acceptable risk" ~20$. I'd buy AC2 even for slightly higher price but never with this form of DRM. *This* is a lost sale and not due to piracy, Mr. Guillemot...
This has been happening for some time. The quality of PC games has been going down hill for years where main stream PC games have all been developed for a console then ported over. Textures, effects, maps sizes, draw distances and control systems are suffering for it.
I've bought every game I play, even the ones that are so awful on PC, they've been consigned to Steam's uninstalled list, (Call of Juarez 2, AvP3 I'm looking at you.)
There is no answer to piracy. Cracking a new game is a challenge for the people who do it and downloading the cracked game is easy for people who can't be bothered to pay.
DRM has become a necessary component of PC games, and while it is something that we should learn to accept, it needs to be done correctly. Obviously, stopping people playing a game altogether while your online DRM server falls over is not the way forward, but online activation isn't such a bad thing. Steam has shown us the way forward in this area and (IMO) more developers should be using it as a universal platform to launch new titles.
Hell, I'd be all in favour of a hardware DRM solution if it meant that developers went back to making quality PC Only titles. Stick a hardware component on the graphics card or motherboard to force a disk check similar to consoles and have done with it. People will complain bitterly, but if it stops consolified titles, (Deus Ex 2 :'(,) ridiculous online DRM checks, limited installs, Star Force et al, then it might not be so bad.
and the animus problems are fixed
It's only because, again, we're in the ever widening gulf of PC performance versus console performance. It happened back when DirectX 9 arrived and the PS2/Xbox were several years old. Back then we had the benefit of FarCry/Doom/UT engines dropping allowing developers another method of design.
Unfortunately for us, the UT3 engine is so popular and so firmly DirectX 9 it is holding back game development because publishers and developers know the code inside out and can design games cheaper. It takes massive investment by Nvidia and ATI to push developers forward - DirectX 11 will do this to some extent and this year it should bring people back to the PC side of things a bit. However it also requires a hardware push from NV and ATI too.
Plus, most mainstream games review sites who do PC games dont comment on the quality, they just go "yea it's a good game to play" so there's no incentive to make it super awesome.
Plus remember, those who buy performance PC parts are a small proportion of those who PC game also so publishers push for the lower specs. You only have to go to a LAN party or read a "gaming" forum to see that: "My G45 graphics cant play MW2" <-- I have read this!
On the other hand, I also think you're being typically performance-PC-centric: recent games have looked good. Hell Crysis still looks good, Mass Effect 2 and AvP look great and so do many others. ;)
I think Valve and Steam have saved the PC market. It's the right way to do things: more companies should go down this route.
Yeah, I guess. After Crysis I was hoping PC games would adopt it's graphical quality. You tend to forget that most people who walk into a Game or HMV store identify their computer model as 'Dell'. While it's not their fault, I just have an itch to see another evolution in graphics. [/nerd]
If I ever met Gabe Newell, I'd probably stroke his face and cry. Valve have done so many things right and Steam is firmly embedded as my PC gaming gateway.
Valve need to bring their prices more inline with high street stores, at least when it comes to Euro pricing.
Games, outside of those with a 33%+ off, are too expensive.
The common attitude is: "I'll pirate this new game and then see if I like it."
The publishers only care about numbers that they can read. So every time a cracked game is downloaded, the piracy figures increase and the publishers then panic and create even more terrible forms of DRM.
I'm not saying the game publishers have the correct mentality, but it's inevitable what will happen as piracy figures increase.
I believe that if you don't like a certain game (or publisher) then do not buy their game AND do not pirate it also.
Also, don't touch their game on ANY platform.
What's the point in protesting about Ubisoft's new evil DRM but then buying the game on console? The console sales still go to Ubi. The PC DRM still remains in place.
I hope the Ubisoft server fail continues, only because of how bad this particular form of DRM is.
PC users also cant rent games from shops, and cant lend games to their friends. demos arent always made, so how am i supposed to sample a game before i buy?
someone who pirates a PC game wasnt going to be a customer anyway, so its not a sale lost.
If you're refering to me I bought it second hand (as mentioned) so Ubisoft aren’t really benefiting too much are they.
Anyway that's beside the point which is the DRM on the PC is awful and I have every right to protest against it, just because I don't agree with it on the PC doesn’t mean I don't want to play the game itself - I'm not about to cut my nose off to spite my face.
Do you not see a bit of a conundrum there? How is the PC buyer, who usually doesn't play on friends' computers like consolites might, and cannot readily be 'lent' a game by a friend like a console player can, to know what games he will "like"? Demos are the first answer, but in the absence of a demo, what exactly are you basing your buying decisions based upon other than the secondhand experiences of reviewers? Though I'm not blameless, I've only pirated one game in the last 6 years - GTA IV, which I bought the following day - and that has probably stopped me buying a few other games I might well have liked simply because I won't pay £25+ for something I've not had the opportunity to try. I don't pirate, they don't have a demo - I don't try their game and I won't buy it. That's a lost sale for sure.
Are you ignoring "this" eveidence?!! The console version is cheaper, rated higher, and is carried in the store! The PC version is higher priced, rated lower, and IS NOT carried in the store...hmmm...I wonder why?!!
http://www.walmart.com/search/search-ng.do?search_constraint=2636&ic=48_0&search_query=assassins+creed
ignore this evidence. Piracy!
http://dlb-network.com/2009/12/over-5-million-copies-of-mw2-were-torrented-this-year/
http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=21965
http://www.gameranx.com/updates/id/236/article/with-project-ten-dollar-ea-aims-to-tackle-the-used-games-market/
When you're the only game in town then you charge what you want! They've built themselves a monopoly and "you" helped them do it!!! Now they're overcharging you...thank you very much! Also, you must keep in mind what Valve must go thru to get the game on Steam in the first place, the publisher must get their cut, Valve gets their cut, any rights or exclusive rights must be paid for as well. I don't know, but the price is reflecting maybe?
Yet, in defence of Steam, you can take up their bandwidth downloading GBs and GBs of data whenever you want, on whatever PC you want. It's not like iTunes that requires authenticated devices (imagine only allowing your Steam account on up to 3 authenticated PCs, and it needs to be reauthed or deauthed when you upgrade) or EA Store that only lets you download the game so many times within a set time period.
You get to pre-load the games at your own pace, and play them exactly when the game launches (more or less) - no trip to the shops, no waiting for the postman.
If you don't like the price then wait until it comes down, but at the end of the day it costs what it costs because that's what it costs. Software has a value just like the considerably more expensive hardware you buy. ;)
Which for me is either a 20 or 50 mile round trip. The bike is okay with that but being Cornwall, you're likely to get stuck behind a tractor or rained on. Download is preferable, even if it costs a few quid more.
just dont buy a second hand xbox360 on fleebay
1) Note wording, "no valid cracked version of either Silent Hunter 5 or Assassin’s Creed II are available". They will say only valid versions are bought ones, so there are no valid cracked ones
2) They probably say there are no cracked versions becuase they have not received any connections from illegal versions :o
The old ones purchased through Steam are backed up. The new ones are bought retail from UK.
But if Steam worked like that, it wouldn have had the earlier success it had.
Got the Imperial version of NTW on March 1st for less than the regular edition of NTW would have cost me in Steam, paied 6 for p&h and the delivery guy (since I wasnt at home) phoned me and brought the game to work.
Paying 12 extra for the benefit of playing the game three days earlier is not worth it.
Steam is currently an acceptable DRM system and a nice community software but it is not a viable store.
Pre-loads are often available for particularly large and popular games, and very often people download them not just register. And they still receive future updates through Steam too.
The prices are set by Publishers, not Steam. It's not Valve that controls anything other than its own games.
http://dlb-network.com/2009/12/over-5-million-copies-of-mw2-were-torrented-this-year/
Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 has been pirated in the PC over 4.1 million times
The Sims 3 came in second place as most pirated games in 2009 with 3,200,000 copies
Prototype in third with 2,350,000 torrented copies on PC
Need for Speed SHIFT in fourth with 2,100,000 copies torrented on PC
Street Fighter was not mentioned because they did not say what the PC's numbers were.
4 PC games, 11,750,000 million illegal downloads on the PC. Compared to 1 million on the 360? THAT IS OUTRAGEOUS!! It's out-of-control!!! M$ banned 1 million players remember? Where are the PS3 numbers hmmm? EXACTLY!!! Zero!
Wii even had quite a few games torrented but New Super Mario Brothers Wii stood out with 1,150,000 pirated copies. Nintendo also sold 10 million copies in 2 months, so didn't need the money, but they made sure they took care of that dumba$$ too!
http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/newsArt.cfm?artid=21140
http://www.bit-tech.net/news/gaming/2010/03/09/ubi-s-drm-servers-vulnerable-to-attacks/1
Let's see, why is this again? the DRM issue. But hey, you're entitled to your opinion. The 1st one played fine, I have it in fact, works great with AA and such on my rig.
Well you see, the server was shut down due to attacks, and it hurt the paying customers since they had to be connected to the server for the game to work. A simple online registration would suffice don't you say?
Well that's the conundrum, seeing as there's no tangible way we can really demo games, rent games, or even trade them in one wonders why..
Pretty sure you did.
I'm all for DRM, as long as it's a one shot, non intrusive sort. GTA IV didn't handle it that well, but there were decent workarounds if you didn't want the online content, most games use just a simple register your copy upon installation, and no need to be connected on a server for everything.
The thing that gets me is the discrepancy in price between regions. Borderlands was cheaper by a large margin in the US compared to Australia on launch, same with Left 4 Dead 2 (which i ended up buying on the US store so i got the uncensored version anyways). That doesn't make much sense to me.
I am not discussing the legalities here and I am not against the second hand market in any form, but since you seem to be "waaaah support the developer", one would imagine you would buy new games so the money actually goes to the developer. As legal as the second hand market is, it probably hurts the developers nearly as much as piracy does.
Also as for your "evidence", nobody here denies PC piracy. You can pull as many gigantic numbers as you want but how many of these are actually lost sales? How many people who were potential pirates of AC2 have now gone out and bought the game thanks to their DRM? How many future sales has Ubisoft lost because of this inconvenience to customers?
Also you are taking one example of a game to say the entire PC experience is bad. It's like if I said that MW2 mp sucks on the PS3 then all PS3 games are bad. I actually saw some kind of ping seeker in MW2 the other day, OMG OUTRAGEOUS UNACCEPTABLE KILL THE PS3.
I'm old school, I pay for my games, it's my skills vs yours, my PC is clean, and I'm legit. So thats the enviroment I'm looking to play in. Just look at what happened to AC2, why put up with that? Hell even MW2! The online experience in these and other PC games suck! PC games are under constant duress, and now...attack, from the hackers, cheaters, and thieves of the industry. The devs try to keep up with patches, can't, and give up. Then the game goes to $h!t, and the inmates are running the asylum. With the games being multi-platform, and no real difference between them... why? Why put up with it? I could get into other areas of problems with the PC but those are not the point. I talking from a pure gaming standpoint right now. Why put up with this type of BS when I don't have to? I can clearly see why M$ and the other console makers are so vigilant in keeping these people off of their networks and the like, with mass bannings, fines and jail!
so if i went out and bought AC2 would i be able to play it on the train on my laptop? the answer is NO - thats intrusive.
Hey! You could bring your "desktop" along, OR your HDTV and console!
Either your playing devils advocate, arguing for the sake of arguing or you honestly can't see the point the other's are trying to make.
Not all games have demos (and this counts for both consoles and PC's) however, at least for the consoles, you can go to blockbusters and rent the game or borrow a friends copy. You'd be SOL for the PC though.
Plus, once you've bought the game and finished it with a console you can trade in/sell to a friend to get money towards your next purchase. Again, this cannot be done with the majority of PC games due to the game being locked down. In the halcyon days of PC gaming, we had just as much freedom to sell our old PC games on as we do our console games now.
In an ideal world (if piracy didn't exist) both versions should be able to be sold on once you're finished with it - But, Believe me, if the publisher could get away with it, the 2nd hand console market would be tied down just as much as the PC market.
And in this case the DRM is not non-intrusive if your legit, you're tied to having an active net connection in order to play - for someone out in the sticks with a very flakey connection this makes the game unplayable whether the server is working fine or not.
A non-intrusive DRM is one which should not affect you at all if you've purchased a legit copy.
no.... no you can't... I don't carry a generator with me to school, or have the money to pay for a wireless internet/3G connection, just because I want to play a game THAT I PAID FOR!!! but, If I download the cracked version.... oh wait, I can.... other than supporting a developer (who is just intent on adding more and more DRM, and pushing consolified versions of games onto PC) there is no logical reason for me to actually buy the game, as it does not allow me to use it as I like.
The fact is, if you don't have an active Internet connection, you cannot play the game you paid for. If I am on the train/bus/ anywhere without an Internet connection, I cannot use the game I paid for.
You really are arguing for the sake of arguing now, and you aren't even making any sense
hes just avoiding the question because he doesnt have a valid response to it.
we already knew that. but Publishers treating their customers like pirates sucks even more.
http://www.tomsguide.com/us/ea-project-ten-dollars-dlc,news-5797.html?xtmc=project_ten_dollar&xtcr=1
A non-intrusive DRM is one which should not affect you at all if you've purchased a legit copy.[/QUOTE]
Really? See above:
Now, the simple fact is, if he doesn't have an internet connection he can't play MMOs either. But that is by the very design of the game requiring a connection to other players. Assassin's Creed 2 and Silent Hunter 5 do not require other players, as such they should be available for play regardless of internet connection. However, Ubisoft's DRM requires an always on internet connection which prevents him from playing wherever he chooses.
Let me put this in terms that might relate to you better. You have an Xbox 360 I assume, is this correct? And you possibly own Halo 3, is this correct? And you bought both of those items legitimately, correct? Assuming all of those are true, let's do a little pretending. If you want to play Halo 3 online you need to have internet access, this is a given. But, let's pretend you don't. Let's also pretend you only have one controller. You can't play a multiplayer match of Halo 3. Now taking this fact, let's pretend you want to play through the singeplayer campaign instead. Normally you'd be able to, but let's pretend Microsoft copied Ubisoft's DRM for Halo 3 and required you to be connected to Xbox Live to play. Since you have no internet access like we said earlier, you would not be able to play the singleplayer campaign either because you could not connect to the DRM. That would be restricting you, the legitimate gamer, from playing Halo 3 even in a singleplayer mode on your own legitimate console.
On a side note, players are able to play games purchased on Steam even with no internet connection. Steam can operate in offline mode allowing players to still access their games assuming there is no additional DRM related to those games. Data obviously won't go to the SteamCloud, but it will operate perfectly fine on your local machine.
First off, I pay for every game I play, I don't download games illegally, even to see if I like them, I base my purchasing decisions on reviews, and playing the game on other people's systems.
I have not purchased/downloaded/played/cracked AS2, as I refuse to support a company that decides that this level of DRM is a good idea. I do however, crack my games when DRM cripples me when I want to play my game, and the DRM makes that impossible.
Stop assuming that we all pirate games, and get down off of your pedestal, it is just making you look like an ass.
No, I can't play MMOs, or any game that has multiplayer elements :(, and neither do I expect to. however, I do expect a single player game to be playable anytime, anywhere, without needing an internet or server connection to play. I'm perfectly happy to validate my games, to imput key codes, register, make an account, whatever, but after that, I don't expect to be tied to a developers servers for life.
Anyways, I can play those steam games I paid for, they have a nice "offline mode" option, so I don't need to be connected to the servers.
You really need to see that most of us are not defending piracy here, we are simply arguing against draconian DRM that hurts those who pay for the game. Along with that, you need to stop insulting us like we are those evil pirates who must have killed your cat when you were a kid or something :|, there is no legitimate excuse for the rage you have brought to this topic otherwise.
You also need to stop telling us all to buy consoles, those of us who want to, will, on our own accord. It's just like telling a PC user to buy a Mac if they don't want to, or telling a Linux user to switch to windows, if they don't want to, they won't, and nothing you will say can change that.
Well if you realisitically think about this, look at it from a user-base perspective, If everyone logs on at the same time, the server will be over loaded, compound it with an attack and you have a disaster.
With all that said, the PC still ousts the consoles simply on the framrate argument, try jumping in the water in AC2 on the PS3.. Lagfest abounds.
So each platform has it's issues, there is no flawless platform.
Yes, I know what renting and trading in games are for..but you still didn't understand my point, there's no way you can trade in a legit game you bought for money in stores..anywhere!
There, proved it, you mentioned only PCs. Although I will admit, I'm only doing this so you can figure out what you've been saying.
If you are saying I should borrow a console copy then that's flawed. What If i don't have a console? Or I like my Mouse and Keyboard?
If you're saying I should borrow the PC copy, then we might have an argument.
1. I like gaming on my PC because I also do work on it, it's also called freedom of choice, I ask you, why question why i want to game on the PC?
2. The fact you're assuming that I'm stealing is a wee bit moronic, if you lump the legit customers and the pirates together, well, let's just say the backlash will be quite monstrous.
Oh boy this is going to be another fiasco ending in 500+ posts.
The phony outrage here is hilarious! Here you have PC gamers making excuse after excuse of why they pirate. It's different everytime! The latest and greatest is the need for a "constant" internet connection. But you have a whole genre of PC games that not only require you to be constantly online, but charge you monthly for the privilege! Where is the outrage?!! Where? It's a joke! It's phony! You're not playing any Steam games (that you paid for) without being online...constantly!!! You're also paying a premium for that privilege as well! Again, where is all the pent up outrage?!! Heres the sad truth, when you call people out for what they are, they get mad. Why? Don't they know? So lets just be honest. It wasn't "hackers" that attacked Ubisoft's servers...it was PC gamers. It's not the "pirates" stealing games...it's PC gamers. It's not the "hackers", "cheaters", and "thieves" ruining the multi-player experience for everybody...it's PC gamers! This is the PC gamer doing this to himself. Thats why I'm soooo glad I have the option to game on consoles, and support M$, Sony, and Nintendo 100% in their efforts to ban by the millions! We don't want the $h!t in our neighborhood! You think PC DRM is tough, how about having not just the game not working, but the console is banned...for life!!
Yep, you get a life sentence for hacking, cheating, and stealing, over there and everybody knows it! Do that at your own risk, because if caught, you know the consequences. Some people buy a "new" console and learn their lesson, and others need to taught again. But guess what, the console is thriving! DRM and life sentences be damned! Gamers are willing to spend the money twice!! The gamers are happy, the devs are happy, people are gaming and making money! Why can't this be for the PC side of the hobby? Why is PC gaming becoming so corrosive and combative? Devs vs PC gamers. It sucks.
The outrage is that you apply a blanket statement to the legit and pirating PC gamers.
A constant connection for a single player game like AC2? That's outrageous. A constant connection for an MMO that has an online fee? i can still choose not to play.
Steam's got an offline mode that allows you to play games as w/o a connection as long as the game in quesiton has no other DRM.
I don't pay for Steam, yes it sells games, yes i have to activate my game on steam, but i don't pay for it directly like a monthly fee.
Actually it is, the majority of PC gamers and all gamers don't pirate or cheat or steal, just the minority, but you have blown it out of proportion.
You're glad to support a closed market? One where you are forced to do something their way all the time? I'll pass, I like modding my games.
Console banning affects only the ones who deserve it, DRM affects moreso the customer than the pirate(seeing as pirates circumvent the measures), DRM is worse since it's mainly the paying customer that takes it up the ass.
Stupid gamers are, most of us aren't made of cash.
While I don't think a DDoS on Ubi's servers is the most ethical action (assuming it was one and not just Ubisoft underestimating traffic) it does make the point for those who (most unwisely in my view) bought into this system, that it places their purchases at risk.
I love your ridiculous use of hyperbole and straw man arguments, keep it up it's quite enjoying to read.
No you obviously don't, 'cos I'm not endorsing pirating or stealing - I've never pirated anything and I buy all my games & DVDs (running out of physical space too because I never sell/trade them in either).
My point was you *should* be able to rent or borrow PC games just as you can rent Console games.
My point was If you want to play it on the PC you can't rent it or borrow your friends copy & not everyone has (or wants) a console or they may want the game for additional content (like user generated mods on Oblivion for example) or perhaps ([Deity of your choice] forbid) prefer a keyboard and mouse over a joypad.
See last point.
I'm talking about legit games not pirated ones.
yes, and that is a good way to go about it free DLC to those who buy the game new and a small charge to those who buy 2nd hand and want the same additional content - they're not forced to buy the extra content in order to play the game and they're not forcing you to stay online 100% of the time to play a single player game either.
As it happens, I've already got it and completed it on the 360.
If I wanted it on the PC (and it didn't include this extremely restrictive DRM) I would have bought it - I do occasionally buy games on multiple platforms (I've got a few games on both the PC and either the Xbox/360/PS2/Gamecube).
Edit: And if you think I'm an irate PC gamer take a look at my 360 profile, I mainly game on that - but I still like playing the odd game on my PC too.
For a breakdown of my gaming habits:- http://raptr.com/Blademrk
awww f**k its you. I refuse to read any more of this thread for the sake of my blood pressure. someone just mail me the funny bits.
On topic, copying games baaad....oh wait, no it isn't. Like DVD's its better to have a back up in case of fire, theft, or drunken frisbee. I've never pirated a PC game yet as a Kid without a job I certainly pirated Playstation games. Heck almost everyone I know plays pirated or copied wii games for one reason or another.
One point, whats all this plug in and play with consoles? 40mins for GTA 4 to patch itself. Fifa10 corrupted after patching. Its not exactly a bed of roses for consoles either.
Request to bindi: If I partake any further in off topic console vs PC debate feel free to swing the ban hammer at me.........for the sake of my sanity.
I don't play those games. I can't. So I don't complain. However I do play single player games. I like to play single player games at school using steam offline mode (or CDs). But I can't when they require a permanent internet connection. Notice, I am using short sentences to keep things simple for you.
No. There is an offline mode that works perfectly well.
Not even worth replying to that load of crap....
EDIT: And for your informarion I played most of my games on consoles before I built a new PC a few months ago:
http://profile.mygamercard.net/Strider179
oh and warrior, dont say that every PC gamer pirates their games. it makes you look stupid and ignorant.
[QUOTE]Console banning affects only the ones who deserve it, DRM affects moreso the customer than the pirate(seeing as pirates circumvent the measures), DRM is worse since it's mainly the paying customer that takes it up the ass.
Well, my ass is fine. If yours is a little sore then maybe you should check your PC for unknown conflicting software that you didn't know about...of course.
One of my first experiences with the PS3 was Burnout Paradise, which insisted on a large 300odd meg patch (when your connection is slow that isn't fun) before it would let me access all the games features. And when I declined it, it would pop up at random during gameplay (usually just as you're pulling off a daring manouvre) to tell me I need to update. I've never had that with a PC game.
The point is that the console experience isn't always a simple 'put in disc, play game' one, and they aren't immune from many of the problems you raise with PC gaming. Oh and I'd hardly call the 360 a hassle free experience when it red rings of deaths on you.
I'm not saying one format is better than the other, just that your idea of removing choice from the customer is not a valid one.
True, console games are not always 'simple' plug and play.
To any gamer out there who listens to the 'pro-console hype' and thinks of getting the latest console just because they now think everything in console land is perfect, then let the multiplatform gamers tell you it's not perfect at all.
Like others have mentioned (even with good internet connections) try to game on a PS3 when the latest firmware update or glitch-busting game patch is required, and then sit down and watch your clock.
Not to mention the incredibly slow game loading times, level loading times and data reading and saving times on the PS3 compared to PC. Yes you can upgrade a PS3's hard drive, but it's still slow compared to PC.
The list of benefits of gaming on the PC go on and on to include such things as having options for advanced AA, higher framerates, FRAPS recordings, greater resolution choices and screen (monitor/TV) choices, better graphical draw distance due to higher PC memory, greater support for various peripheral choices etc. ...
Not all PC gamers play MMO, RTS and RPG type of games.
So for me, the whole culture of being tied to the internet in order to play a game is one that I'm not used to.
Of course, if I choose to play WAN multiplayer mode, then I will need internet access for that. But at least I can game on a laptop or anywhere else with poor internet access in single player mode or even LAN multiplayer mode.
I also do not own a single PC game that requires me to have a constant internet connection to play in single player mode.
Have you seen PC piracy figures for games that do have demos? I have known many PC gamers who come out with every excuse under the sun for downloading a cracked version of a game even when the demo was available, such as saying things like "they need to try the whole game to see if they like it".
You may have your own completely 'valid' reasons fo pirating a particular game. However, any illegal gaming is only making matters worse for all of us in the long run.
Like Arguer24_7 says, if you are so sure about your ethics, then why not walk into a shop and snatch the game disc from the shelf and tell everyone that you are just going to 'demo' the game. :)
You can pirate a movie and you can remain sure that next year the publisher will continue to make movies.
Pirate an XBOX game and you can be sure to receive more XBOX releases next year.
Pirate a PC game and you increase the likelihood that the PC game publisher will find the piracy download rates so scary to either abandon the PC version of future games or create even worse DRM.
If you already know that the piracy rates are forcing developers to rethink their support for the PC platform, then all forms of pirate downloads, regardless of whether or not it would have been a lost sale or not (or just a demo), will hurt all of us in the end.
For others who decide to protest against this DRM by encouraging people to do even more piracy, you're just shooting yourselves in the foot.
The way to protest properly is to speak out on Ubi's forums and do not touch their game in any legal or illegal form, and do not buy it on any gaming platform.
This is what I try and advocate but really its never going to happen. Whenever some bad decisions on DRM or even game features such as dedicated servers are made, the game is hugely pirated.
I'll go out on a limb and say most pirates are proud of what they do and they seem to think they are "sticking to the man" or "fighting the establishment" or some related BS. I mean it's one thing to pirate software but I really hate people who justify piracy by glorifying it.
Now AC2 will be pirated a lot because people will think they are fighting the evil DRM or something.
i wasnt saying that pirating was right - i was pointing out that a publisher asking us to buy a 30 quid game without a demo is wrong.
when i was at uni, money wasnt abundant, and even though i did buy a few games i couldnt afford most. Im not proud but i did download a few games - but any game i played for more than 2 hours i would go out and buy (stalker and oblivion spring to mind, not forgetting FM). most of the games would be installed, played for an hour then uninstalled when i realised they were crap. then i would be glad i didnt just blindly go out and buy it, because PC gamers cant recoup most of their money with trade-ins.
I have bought my fair share of dogs, as im sure everyone has, and i dont really want to spend money on something that will just sit on my shelf gathering dust.
I predict [quote] the next...post contains! wooooords! and lots of them? With any meaning!!! destroyed? in the crossfire [quote] of...insanity!!![quote]!!!!
+1. Not one. What would I do when I'm on the move? Or when the college's internet dies? I have no interest in a system that eats into my already limited monthly bandwidth. Ubisoft's system sucks and I certainly won't buy (or download, actually) of the games which feature this. Why, oh why, didn't they just release it on Steam?
they have released it on steam.... only problem is that they still have their DRM enabled over Steam's system
Ack, that is of course what I meant. Allow me to rephrase; why, oh why, didn't they consider Steam's DRM sufficient instead of tacking on additional annoyance?
That goes (to a lesser degree) also for games on Steam that also use GFWL.
this is whats stopping me from buying the games because i know i'll be constantly being stopped and having to wait.