/golf clap

The good news is that Ubisoft promises the new system doesn't use either StarForce or SecuROM and doesn't require a disc check or apply an install limit on customers.

The bad news is that a constant internet connection is required, users will need to connect to a Ubi.com account before playing and apparently all save games will be uploaded to a Ubisoft cloud.

As far as i can see that's good news all around.

UNTILL UBISOFT GOES OUT OF BUSINESS. Then you can kiss your games goodbye, but they hardly took that into consideration.

EDIT:

patches will be rolled out if Ubisoft is forced to abandon the servers

Oh wait, good stuff. But what about the savegames?

So where do I get the internet emulator beta from cracker group X

:)

That gave me reason not to buy any Ubisoft games, thanks!

I lol'd at the image and got pissed off with another DRM system... all at the same time!

Oh bloody hell. "Most people have constant internet connection". But what about those people that don't.

Originally Posted by Stewb
Oh bloody hell. "Most people have constant internet connection". But what about those people that don't.

Do you know any gamers without an internet connection? I assume most of Ubi's new games will be multiplayer-heavy anyways, so there would be no point in buying them if you don't have internet. So IMO those people aren't the target audience for Ubi.

Originally Posted by Stewb
Oh bloody hell. "Most people have constant internet connection". But what about those people that don't.

Indeed. When I changed ISP recently I went 4-5 days without an internet connection. And every now and then, if there is a server fault with an ISP you can have a few hours without a connection. During this time you can't play. That sucks.

Why can't these people use the "steam" model. Connect once, validate, and then allow offline play.

And this......

Originally Posted by A ubisoft muppet

"At the moment, if you release the PC version, essentially what you're doing is letting people have a free version that they rip off instead of a purchased version. Piracy's basically killing PC,"

Are we ALL Criminals?

Originally Posted by DragunovHUN
Do you know any gamers without an internet connection? I assume most of Ubi's new games will be multiplayer-heavy anyways, so there would be no point in buying them if you don't have internet. So IMO those people aren't the target audience for Ubi.

Yes, hes sitting on a chair typing out a message to you right now....

I am currently at boarding school, so that means limited internet during the week, limited in this case being all but browsing and MSN impossible, so no connecting to servers to get saved games etc. Thankfully steam offline works for most of my games (and the good old ones that came with a disk )

Now, hopefully when I get to uni it will work, but otherwise :(

EDIT:

Originally Posted by The ubisoft muppet

"At the moment, if you release the PC version, essentially what you're doing is letting people have a free version that they rip off instead of a purchased version. Piracy's basically killing PC,"

..... That is the case with making absolutely anything, you make it. It can be copied. Only way to stop it being copied is to not release it at all :o

http://i.imgur.com/ESPNL.jpg

But yes.

This will be pirated just like any other system. Monitor the traffic, replicate the responses with a local "server", force gamesaves to a directory on the local "server", modify the system that sends the calls to look at localhost. Oops.

This is just the wrong way to fight a problem that this only fuels. Still no games on Ubisofts list are even remotely interesting to me now I just have to go bitch about GFWL being included with Metro 2033 >:(

Originally Posted by DragunovHUN

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stewb
Oh bloody hell. "Most people have constant internet connection". But what about those people that don't.

Do you know any gamers without an internet connection? I assume most of Ubi's new games will be multiplayer-heavy anyways, so there would be no point in buying them if you don't have internet. So IMO those people aren't the target audience for Ubi.

It's more an issue of you have to have the connection ALL THE TIME. If it drops while you're playing then the game will pause before letting you carry on playing, but Ubi hasn't clarified if you'll be able to upload your save. If you're on WiFi and the signal drops, too bad. If someone else needs to use the internet and you can't share a connection or have a bandwidth problem, too bad. If you're not on an unlimited connection then it'll hog your bandwidth needlessly.

"Ubisoft has announced a new DRM system"

If only there was a DRM system out there that didn't require a constant internet connection and does exactly the same thing.

*Sigh*

Steam is brilliant. GFWL is appalling. If UBi's is anything like GFWL I will be refusing to buy any of their games.

Originally Posted by Centy-face
GFWL being included with Metro 2033 >:(

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

I would Download a car, I always d/l em' when modding GTA...[/offtopic]

I honestly think that this may be good, if it helps them to make more profits from PC gamers then they will feel that it will be worth developing games for the PC entirely, and not just make some crappy ports... or ignore the PC gamers completely.


I hope this system that they will be using goes well, and finally, at least I won't have to have my disc in anymore when I wanna play, now I can keep those discs somewhere safe where they won't get scratched.

and I also have to say, I think that if someone doesn't like this idea, then they are obviously pirates or have no internet connection to their primary (Gaming) PC.

Originally Posted by NikoBellic
and I also have to say, I think that if someone doesn't like this idea, then they are obviously pirates or have no internet connection to their primary (Gaming) PC.

Read my post a few up -_-

And you haven't needed a disk for ages, its called Steam, and works well, and works offline :(

great yet another login i have to remember

It will have to have more benefits to me than just "Hey look, you can take your save games anywhere" because, really, how useful is that to anyone? Most people have one gaming rig at home. If they have more they can already just move their save games themselves.

Personally, I really like the way that EA and BioWare have done it. Yes, it's annoying that you have to create yet another account and you have to remember another password and all that, but there lots of upsides in their implementation. There is day one DLC for games like Mass Effect and Dragon Age, often free. You can easily grab extra content and it doesn't come with stupid restrictions about always needing to be online, though it is mostly pretty secure. It's the best way that this method can be done and Ubisoft seem to have missed out on that.

If cloud saves are the main benefit then I'll just not bother, tbh. It's not worth the hassle of junkmail, bandwidth troubles and registering.

well that's sales lost from me for being idiots

Originally Posted by NikoBellic
and I also have to say, I think that if someone doesn't like this idea, then they are obviously pirates or have no internet connection to their primary (Gaming) PC.

Ridiculous statement. I moved house not that long ago and had to wait almost 3 weeks for the phone/broadband companies to get their respective acts together. If I couldn't have played any of my games in that time I'd have been pretty pissed off about it.

In any case *I* don't like this idea and I've never pirated a game in my life (well since I had Doom copied over 6 3.5 floppies at least) so I can't help but feel that proves the lie of your statement. It's not just a question of the practicalities anyway - there is the principal to consider. Yes, my gaming PC is always connected to the internet. Does it follow that I therefore don't mind my games phoning home every time I want to play one? - No, in fact it doesn't.

Anyways, the simple truth is that consumers are going to have to vote with their wallet on this one, ubisoft won't be making any money off of me at least while they're using this.

"At the moment, if you release the PC version, essentially what you're doing is letting people have a free version that they rip off instead of a purchased version. Piracy's basically killing PC," he said.

Yes because no one ever pirates xbox 360 games...

Yeah, this is definately a good idea. Rather than look for ways to reward subscribers / buyers, they've gone ahead and forced everybody to be watched always. So what does this mean, if you don't have an internet connection, no games for you, or if you have a spastic connection, you're going to have the game keep crashing? Yeah, this is a great idea.

It's just going to be cracked, just like everything else is. The big problem is that piracy isn't something you can really defeat. Game releases will be cracked, DLC will be pirated, and MMOs will get private servers. You're just going to lose customers by punishing them

Thank god, games I'm looking forward to play are not published by Ubisoft!!! Especially Thief 4...

"patches will be rolled out if Ubisoft is forced to abandon the servers"

Because when your company is being liquidated and you are 2 days away from the unemployment line, the first thing on your mind is those poor games that are now obsolete.

Piracy is a huge problem for PC devs, and I appreciate that companies have to do something to protect their games from being ripped off. While this system does seem a little draconian, there are benefits (cloud saves etc). WHile I'm sure release groups will find a way around it messing about with local host etc is a whole lot more difficult than copying a crack or the like, and the key here is making piracy more difficult. If only an advanced user can Pirate a game, they'll invariably get more sales.

I personally really like the route EA and Bioware have taken, downsizing the copy protection but giving users significant advantages to actually buying and registering the game. Hopefully it's working for them when it comes to sales too - Dragon Age seemed to sell very well on PC.

wasnt there an article posted here the other day which said "The decade the pc fights back"? yeah, i would remove that to. dont want more people seeing just how wrong you were. great start to new pc gaming decade eh?

If it stops developers/publishers abandoning the PC as a platform to make games on ... then screw the haters.

You can't one minute be complaining about PC games being ports from consoles and then cry when a publisher tries to protect its IP.

This sucks. It's the same old punish those that actually buy the game whilst the pirates hack the game and have no such problems! Do you trust a Ubisoft server with your save game? What if it goes down, or gets corrupted? What if after 2 years Ubisoft decide the game is obsolete and they close the servers down (it's all about the bottom line) - can you get your save back? Can you even play?

Originally Posted by NikoBellic
I think that if someone doesn't like this idea, then they are obviously pirates or have no internet connection to their primary (Gaming) PC.

Originally Posted by Tyrmot
Ridiculous statement.

Quite. So if I dislike the Toyota Prius, it means I can't obey the speed limit and drive everywhere with my pants on fire?

A few people have already mentioned it and I'll add my voice to it - Steam is brilliant. Don't go against it Ubisoft because frankly, you can't do as good a job. Just put your games on Steam and be happy. More people will want to buy your games and you'll get mental sales figures in the regular Steam Sale events.

Oh dear Ubisoft. Looks like you've lost another customer. Not that I've bought any of their games since Far Cry 2 and that was a serious disappointment.

At the moment, if you release the PC version, essentially what you're doing is letting people have a free version that they rip off instead of a purchased version. Piracy's basically killing PC

Tell that to my steam games list mate....

Originally Posted by CardJoe
...If cloud saves are the main benefit then I'll just not bother, tbh. It's not worth the hassle of junkmail, bandwidth troubles and registering.

Correct, and of course they make the pirated copies much more attractive

It looks like I won't be buying any more Ubi Soft games, for sure.

I don't care how good the game is - I don't want anything to do with it.

It's things like this that drive up piracy rates.

This is worse than SecuROM and all other DRM put together.

this was always comming, Pc market is fueled by pirate activity like it or not. Only Steam has developed a workable closed system.

my internet is on 24/7 id guess 99% of the people on this site have a net connection 24/7. bandwidth limits in this day and age lol? get a better isp. ( BE has no limits)

Steams system granted works but it isnt entirely closed. Ubis system makes piracy 100* harder to achieve. As unless you can disable the code you could never bypass it which is the point. Also you couldnt save.

I dunno im all for it in the long term. Piracy is a major issue on the 360 and wii as well ( funny thing is it helps sell consoles) ps3 which has no piracy at all ( may change soon but i dout it bluray disks + 50gb game downloads wont start in the uk any time soon)

pretty much buy all pc games via steam or direct 2 drive either way.

Originally Posted by Ubi FAQ
If you can access the Internet from the computer, you can play the game.

Where have I heard that before? Oh yeah, every other application that doesn't work through strict firewalls :(

This is set up on a collusion course for epic fail.

Did they really think that the pirates were this weak?

Originally Posted by CardJoe
If you're not on an unlimited connection then it'll hog your bandwidth needlessly.

All it's doing is continually phoning home while you play to validate. How much bandwidth can this really use? I'd bet that even on a broadband line with a ludicrously low cap (e.g. a 3G dongle with a 500MB/month limit) and playing the game 16 hours a day 7 days a week, the amount of bandwidth consumed would be so insignificant it would make no noticeable difference to your overall usage.

Ubisoft games are rubbish anyway, just another reason to buy something else.

I know lots people say they won't buy a game cos of a certain DRM, but if this goes ahead I really won't be buying any Ubi games in the future. A crap connection shared between 2 home PCs isn't workable as it is, so this has no chance.

This is bad for people who have a download limit and just another expense the consumer has to pay in order to play a game. There should be a law against this sort of thing. At least with steam you can play offline if you want.

Originally Posted by NikoBellic
I hope this system that they will be using goes well, and finally, at least I won't have to have my disc in anymore when I wanna play, now I can keep those discs somewhere safe where they won't get scratched.

You don't need DRM like this in order to play PC games without the disc in your drive. Not only do we currently have Steam and Digital Download games, but also Slysoft and other solutions to fool your game into thinking you have your disc in when you don't.

Originally Posted by NikoBellic


and I also have to say, I think that if someone doesn't like this idea, then they are obviously pirates or have no internet connection to their primary (Gaming) PC.

I think this is a very ignorant thing to say.

I don't like this idea at all - yet I have NEVER installed a pirated game on my PC.

Even with a 100 percent perfect internet connection, I would not want this draconian system out of principle, but there are also practical issues that some people have already highlighted.

To give another example, what if I want to play on a laptop in a car with no internet access or poor internet access? Result = I either can't play at all, or the level of playability is impractical.

What if I am playing at home on a wireless connection and get reception drop? Result = Annoying. I currently don't have a single PC game that requires internet connection. If I were to get reception issues during online multiplayer mode in my current games, then at least I can start the game and play offline.

What if I have a perfect internet connection, but Ubisoft's own servers are down for a weekend? Result = I can't play the game for the weekend. Not even for single player mode. The game won't even start.

It's like you don't even own your game. You might be totally fine with all this. You may never experience problems yourself. But for sure there are going to be large numbers of pi$$ed gamers.

I also want full control over my save files on my local machine, or USB stick for transporting and giving my save files to someone else if I want.

drm is always broken and often before the game is released, i dont pirate games, i buy them, wether they be on steam, ea downloader ,which i find mostly works well, or on disc from r/etailers.

I'll take some convincing before I buy into this idea. I do not want any of my information, this includes save games, forcibly moved into anyone's random cloud, neither do I wish to be shackled to an internet connection or a third party server - no matter who it belongs to.

I have saves for some games going back over 10 years, games I still play on occasion and looking back can be great fun. Will the Ubi servers be running in 10 years time?

My internet connection is solid but like everything else, including Ubi servers, one day it will fail for some reason or other. Damn, the 'net is down. I know I'll just play... ****, no net no play.

Train journeys, hotel rooms, the occasional baby sitting stint in some random office, a connection may or may not be available. Even discounting the cost and reliability of some dodgy hotel WiFi, what about the firewalls they may have in place.

I'm sorry. This industry has come out with some **** ideas in the past backed by some equally shitty justification but this one truly does take the **** biscuit.

Classic

We the ones who buy legally copies of the games get punished, while the pirates get all the crack-piracy work-around.

Loyal gamer with nice collection of legal copies:

Getting problems with your ISP means you wont be able ot even play single player games.

The Unisoft server is down? = no single player games.

"Oh man, my modem just broked, thank God i got this nice Ubi games so i can play while i wait till end of the month so i can buy another modem" = Ooooppssss, crap, i cant play.

Damn pirate with hacked-burned and downloaded copies all around:

Ubi.com server emulator is released and is hosted in localhost, the crack.exe makes the games code think it has found the server.

The saved games are hosted in the emulated "localhost\ubisoft\savedgames" Url.

Pirate gamer gets out with it nd play the game happily:'(

This just sucks:(

And i thought it was only Microsoft trying to kill PC gaming with the amazingly crap games for windows live :(

JUST USE STEAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm not going to get any more Ubisoft games or any game that has games for windows live so no bioshock 2 no ac2 for me

Originally Posted by Baz
Piracy is a huge problem for PC devs, and I appreciate that companies have to do something to protect their games from being ripped off. While this system does seem a little draconian, there are benefits (cloud saves etc). WHile I'm sure release groups will find a way around it messing about with local host etc is a whole lot more difficult than copying a crack or the like, and the key here is making piracy more difficult. If only an advanced user can Pirate a game, they'll invariably get more sales.

I personally really like the route EA and Bioware have taken, downsizing the copy protection but giving users significant advantages to actually buying and registering the game. Hopefully it's working for them when it comes to sales too - Dragon Age seemed to sell very well on PC.

there is still no conclusive link that people who pirate would by it if they could not. i am sure that there are a few, but i am willing to bet that the number is actually quite small. most of the people who pirate either do not want the game enough to pay fo a legit version, or have no money to spend on it but still want to play. that is just my experience however. \

and the bit about always needing an internet connection?! that is just BS. what if i want to play on a laptop in the airport? or in the car? or my internet goes out? or any one of the million other reasons i don't have internet connections all the time? and last time i checked the settlers was primarily a single player game. why the hell would i even need constant internet connection unless i was playing multilayer online of downloading additional content?

and to all those who love steam, they have their own problems. their eula is draconian and they take a "i don't care" attitude when their is a problem. i currently have a BBB case open with them, as that is apparently what it took to get their attention. the actual software seems to work fine, however.

i forgot to mentoin: thanks for the article, i will be avoiding games with ubi on the box.

Originally Posted by thEcat
I'll take some convincing before I buy into this idea. I do not want any of my information, this includes save games, forcibly moved into anyone's random cloud, neither do I wish to be shackled to an internet connection or a third party server - no matter who it belongs to.

I have saves for some games going back over 10 years, games I still play on occasion and looking back can be great fun. Will the Ubi servers be running in 10 years time?

My internet connection is solid but like everything else, including Ubi servers, one day it will fail for some reason or other. Damn, the 'net is down. I know I'll just play... ****, no net no play.

I'm sorry. This industry has come out with some **** ideas in the past backed by some equally shitty justification but this one truly does take the **** biscuit.

This, especially the cloud concept. Why are so many companies pushing for storing your data on their servers. It almost seems like a power trip/control issue or an inititive to find another way to nickel and dime us in the future. Windows 7 doesn't offer Outlook Express. Instead your supposed to use Windows Live Mail. You mail is stored on Microsofts "secure" servers. What was wrong with storing my emails on my PC? Its worked perfectly fine all these years but now MS feels I need to store them in a "CLOUD". I don't think so. Hello Mozilla Thunderbird. ;)

So not only do I need a constant internet connection I also only save my games on their remote site. Logically this would make saving the game a lot longer along with loading saved game files...

So now I will be boycotting all Ubisoft games too...

Also I am not a big steam fan either becuase of how they do not really care about who their updates break however I will say that compared to the alternatives it is like heaven.

Urgh, another DRM 'solution' that makes it harder to play the game if you bought it than if you pirated it.

Just had a look at that piracy article with stats from torrentfreak: http://news.vgchartz.com/news.php?id=6352

Although console piracy numbers are far lower than PC by camparison, it is only a matter of time before it overtakes PC piracy what with more developers making games only for the consoles.
It will be interesting to see what developers do when that happens. Wonder if they will make DRM for consoles...

You can get a chipped XBOX and if you never take it online you can play all the pirated games you want without any troubles.

Selling new games for £10 or under will do more to combat piracy than any DRM method that gets cracked within hours of a game being available.

I'd definitely buy settlers 7 for under £10, otherwise most will pirate now and maybe buy when it hits a Steam sale if they still like the game by then...

Well that sucks!
I play quite a few games on my laptop while I'm out and about. But I hardly ever have an internet connection when I'm away from my house/desk. These games would be useless for me.

Let them do this! I really want them to do this. Why? I want them to see, with their own eyes, the game being uploaded to a warez site the very same day it's released, if not sooner, and it plays better than the original!

Originally Posted by Benneb-
Urgh, another DRM 'solution' that makes it harder to play the game if you bought it than if you pirated it.

Just had a look at that piracy article with stats from torrentfreak: http://news.vgchartz.com/news.php?id=6352

Although console piracy numbers are far lower than PC by camparison, it is only a matter of time before it overtakes PC piracy what with more developers making games only for the consoles.
It will be interesting to see what developers do when that happens. Wonder if they will make DRM for consoles...

You can get a chipped XBOX and if you never take it online you can play all the pirated games you want without any troubles.

But you always have to remember that most of the people who download console games sell multiple copies of them so you will never know the true number and i think its way higher them Microsoft or Nintendo will admit i think its higher then pc !!!!!

Originally Posted by kornedbeefy
This, especially the cloud concept. Why are so many companies pushing for storing your data on their servers. It almost seems like a power trip/control issue or an inititive to find another way to nickel and dime us in the future. Windows 7 doesn't offer Outlook Express. Instead your supposed to use Windows Live Mail. You mail is stored on Microsofts "secure" servers. What was wrong with storing my emails on my PC? Its worked perfectly fine all these years but now MS feels I need to store them in a "CLOUD". I don't think so. Hello Mozilla Thunderbird. ;)

you can download "Windows Live Mail" it's the replacement for Outlook express, it's just not included in the standard install.
No cloud just a new name.

As for any DRM, it will be cracked in most cases before the game even hits the selves.
Never going to be the solution to pirated games.

It seems that there are too many negative votes around here. But I think Ubisoft just does what must be done. Peoples are imperfect but bussiness must be perfect. I vote positive.:D
If you dont have a Interweb connection then U R NOT a serious gamer and hence your votes have no value. Tens of you here said that you are honest gamers but how about milions of peoples who say nothing out there?!:D
I see many potentials of this method, not just "a game of cat and mouse". Gaming must become serious before some serious good games come to life.:D
And yes! Victory will not come without sacrifices!

Originally Posted by Benneb-
Just had a look at that piracy article with stats from torrentfreak: http://news.vgchartz.com/news.php?id=6352

I've read plenty of articles on piracy numbers and not one of them has been able to shock me or make me the least bit surprised apart from that!

The second game, is House of the Dead: Overkill, this game saw 860k downloads while the game at retail has seen only 480k sales.

That is truely shocking, to think that it's on a console aswell, why do publishers always make out that it's terrible on PC and nothing else, it's obviously a lot worse on consoles than they let on

AI think they are totally ignorant and frankly, idiotic in their efforts to "fight piracy" by including yet another "new" DRM system. When will they realise, that it does absolutely nothing?
The pirates will pirate the games anyway, that s a FACT. No matter what DRM systems they think of, they will be pirated, and to just the same extent - if not even more, 'cause in this cases... The pirated product is a better product; No annoying disc check's, no forced internet connection...

They should stop throwing money in the wind, and instead should focus on making their product have more value for those who buy it: effectively increasing their sales much more than some stupid DRM will.

Game is "protected" with DRM = I will not buy it.

Within days of this coming out, pirates will have found a way to disable it, and the only people required to be online while they play will be legitimate customers, and every time their internet connection goes down, they won't be able to play, while the pirates will.

Piracy isn't killing the PC, stupid money hungry execs are with their desperate attempts to acquire what they perceive to be lost revenue, which is in fact revenue they probably never would have had even if it was impossible to pirate games.

Greetings!

Originally Posted by Psytek
Piracy isn't killing the PC, stupid money hungry execs are with their desperate attempts to acquire what they perceive to be lost revenue, which is in fact revenue they probably never would have had even if it was impossible to pirate games.

How do you know that?
Parasitic freeloaders pirate games because they can, not because games are expensive.
Companies are just trying to figure out an un-breakable DRM system.
Will they succeed? Probably not, but they do have to try.

The current DRM mess is caused by the freeloaders actions, the companies actions are just a reaction.

Can someone answer me honestly and intelligently why artists and businesses shouldn't try to protect their work?

Originally Posted by Psytek
Within days of this coming out, pirates will have found a way to disable it, and the only people required to be online while they play will be legitimate customers, and every time their internet connection goes down, they won't be able to play, while the pirates will.

Piracy isn't killing the PC, stupid money hungry execs are with their desperate attempts to acquire what they perceive to be lost revenue, which is in fact revenue they probably never would have had even if it was impossible to pirate games.

Whilst that might be true here is my word.

Yeah, it's sad pc game devs need to go to these kind of lengths in an effort to stop being robbed and if or when pirates crack the protection that will just take the mick out of the genuine supporters who buy the games, I totally understand them trying, but like others are saying, they could hold back really important pieces of the game that make it useless without them until you sign up, register & show proof of purchase & download through the devs login that comes with personalised encrypted data related to your registration before you can play it, I very much believe it is true they need to come up with new protections because every past effort has been cracked in no time.

Hell, even a registration with proof of purchase to unlock a very much needed portion of the games installed data which comes encrypted should be enough and expect would hardly cost anything to setup, might be a slight inconvenience but I for 1 really wouldn't mind, and for extra protection, that with a need for being connected would definately kill pc piracy, I'm so sure. They need to be aggressive to properly tackle the issue.

What the ubisoft guy said is so true we could easily use pirated games but I refuse to as I love gaming as an entertainment it's my favourite and want to help chip in so it progresses, not help it sufficate, so as long as idiots pirate games it is the idiots that help to bury pc gaming, I'm pretty sure if piracy for pc games dropped massively, pc would start getting some amazing exclusives too which it really needs, crysis was and is freaking awesome with current tech, xbox360, ps3 are like ancient pc's now.

I only buy games I'm very interested in, any I'm partially interested in I just wait for sales or try a demo to see if it's worth getting, anyone who pirates games must not give a damn if pc became undevelopped for, I hope ubisoft manage to make an unintrusive yet effective pirate unfriendly protection, I really do, the pc needs it.

If every keen gamer supported devs I'm cirtain we would not get sloppy ports from console and even get pc only exclusives, I pre-ordered stalker call of pripyat, I think that is an exclusive or at least made for pc and later being ported to console a dev using their nogging yaaaaay :).

Originally Posted by leveller
Can someone answer me honestly and intelligently why artists and businesses shouldn't try to protect their work?

Companies have a right to protect their work, sure. But when it goes too far you end up in the absurd situation we are in now;
You dont actualy own the game you bought, you mearly paid for the right to play it, and with always online DRM systems like this, the company can take away your ability to play the game (at any time) should they choose to do so. You cannot play the game unless they say you can (constant internet required), so no taking the game away on a laptop somewhere. Even steam allows you to play offline after the first activation.

Hell, you are practically considered a pirate (or rather the purchaser is; not sure what the seller is refered to as) if you sell the game on to someone else when you no longer want it.

This all smells of companies taking the lazy way out of the situation so they can say to their bosses and shareholders (and i guess moreso their publishers) that they are doing something about piracy. All it really accomplishes is further punishing the legitimate consumer. We all know how easily cracked these new DRM systems are.

Hands up who has bought a game and then gotten a pirate copy or no CD crack so it becomes less hassle?


EDIT: Oh and i forgot to ask: What happens if your connection drops whilst playing?
I know mine does if i am downloading.

Also, to add to my earlier post.
If the protection on any game gets cracked properly, maybe devs should really start considering to do a patch to remove the hassling protections so the supporters get what they deserve rather than have to put up with annoying protections whilst pirates enjoy and we don't.

I really don't have a problem with DRM in principle, so long as it is above board and I know what I am letting myself in for. There are still people bitching about Steam, but I have had very few problems with it. This internet connection thing makes a lot of sense, and it gets around the thing about having limited number of installs. Now I can install the game as many times as I like.

Originally Posted by rollo
bandwidth limits in this day and age lol? get a better isp. ( BE has no limits)

Move to the countryside and call again

I hope ubisoft manage to make an unintrusive yet effective pirate unfriendly protection

With you on that one, but the magic word here is "unintrusive".
And this word is the last one on the developers list. >:(

Originally Posted by bridgesentry
It seems that there are too many negative votes around here. But I think Ubisoft just does what must be done. Peoples are imperfect but bussiness must be perfect. I vote positive.:D
If you dont have a Interweb connection then U R NOT a serious gamer and hence your votes have no value. Tens of you here said that you are honest gamers but how about milions of peoples who say nothing out there?!:D
I see many potentials of this method, not just "a game of cat and mouse". Gaming must become serious before some serious good games come to life.:D
And yes! Victory will not come without sacrifices!

I will see you all pissed off threating verbaly your pc when your connection drops and you lose your game in the middle of the action :D

Originally Posted by Benneb-
This all smells of companies taking the lazy way out of the situation so they can say to their bosses and shareholders (and i guess moreso their publishers) that they are doing something about piracy. All it really accomplishes is further punishing the legitimate consumer. We all know how easily cracked these new DRM systems are.

That's right, they hate you and want to punish you. They don't want you to buy their games. And they have joined the ranks of MS, Apple and McDonalds and want to take away your freedoms.

Back to reality.

I'm pretty sure the only reason they are doing this is to protect their future sales, so in that respect you are right. However to say this is the lazy route? Copy protection has been around in my memory since Elite required the crazy viewfinder or Jet Set Willy had it's fold out code sheet, not forgetting the games that required a word to be entered from : "Page 17, Paragraph 2, line 2, word 4" from their manuals. You are talking about coders and businesses that have been around for at least 2 decades. Are you more experienced than them? You think they've had a 100% staff rotation and now the company is full of fools who know nothing of copy protection?

I hate DRM as much as the next person but don't hate the companies for trying to do something about it. Write to them with your suggestions of how you would stop piracy.

Originally Posted by leveller
That's right, they hate you and want to punish you. They don't want you to buy their games. And they have joined the ranks of MS, Apple and McDonalds and want to take away your freedoms.

I said it has the effect of punishing you, i did not say they go out of their way to do that.
Its like the adverts before a film in the cinema telling you not to pirate it even though you are in the cinema viewing it having paid for it.

Originally Posted by leveller
I'm pretty sure the only reason they are doing this is to protect their future sales, so in that respect you are right. However to say this is the lazy route?

Ok so maybe Lazy was not the right way of putting it. I will say i think it is the wrong route for the reasons stated below.

Originally Posted by leveller
Copy protection has been around in my memory since Elite required the crazy viewfinder or Jet Set Willy had it's fold out code sheet, not forgetting the games that required a word to be entered from : "Page 17, Paragraph 2, line 2, word 4" from their manuals.

Yes and these systems worked fine in the time before the internet where it was not as easy to find cracks/photo copies of manuals/code books etc.

Originally Posted by leveller
You are talking about coders and businesses that have been around for at least 2 decades. Are you more experienced than them? You think they've had a 100% staff rotation and now the company is full of fools who know nothing of copy protection?

You will note i never said that.
I do not, however, have to be an expert at DRM systems and technologies to see that the currently employed methods are not actually stopping the piracy but are placing more restrictions on people who actually bought the game.

Originally Posted by leveller
I hate DRM as much as the next person but don't hate the companies for trying to do something about it. Write to them with your suggestions of how you would stop piracy.

Other than maybe lowering the prices to entice people to buy the games, i have no ideas or suggestions on what could be done to prevent piracy. Even that would not stop the people that will pirate a game just because they can though; Making it pretty much a non viable solution.

This new DRM system will probably be broken very close to the release of a game that uses it. When that happens the people with cracked copies will probably be able to play without a net connection whenever they want, the people that have a legitimatly bought copy will not.

I say probably because who knows. Maybe this will be the DRM solution that works and is never broken. I do doubt that will be the case though.

wow this blows :(
also, I had to check this list to remember what the hell Ubisoft published anyway.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ubisoft_games

Originally Posted by Benneb-
I said it has the effect of punishing you, i did not say they go out of their way to do that. Its like the adverts before a film in the cinema telling you not to pirate it even though you are in the cinema viewing it having paid for it.

Agreed. It annoys the hell out of me when I have to watch the 2 minutes rolling text from the federation against copyright theft before the film starts, time to put the kettle on at least.

Originally Posted by Benneb-
Yes and these systems worked fine in the time before the internet where it was not as easy to find cracks/photo copies of manuals/code books etc.

They didn't though, well, Elite did to some degree but eventually people could guess the codes, as for the manual or fold out card protection - useless. I remember one lad had written RRYBBYBRYBRRRYYBRY x 30 lines (?) for Jet Set Willy, and that was supposed to be a really complicated code set. As for the manuals, photocopiers had been invented by then.

Originally Posted by Benneb-
I do not, however, have to be an expert at DRM systems and technologies to see that the currently employed methods are not actually stopping the piracy but are placing more restrictions on people who actually bought the game.

Agreed they are placing more restrictions on honest gamers and it is crap, but like you said the current systems don't work so they need to try something else. The constant connection idea is almost like the publisher is looking over your shoulder the whole time you are playing, however I can bet that it is NOT a constant check. They have to say that so you don't get any ideas of disconnecting. I imagine the coders have thought of temperamental-connections. I would also bet that the check is performed very irregularly. As for connection drops - as and when this happens and the DRM tries to do it's check, it will likely give you a grace period and firstly assume you are innocent and had a connection drop - secondly when it tries to re-check 10 minutes later and your connection is still not there I expect it will drop you from the game after a pre-warning.

All of this is of course second-guessing. But I wouldn't for one second believe that if they really do implement this idea then they haven't thought about making it as unobtrusive as possible.

However, honestly, I don't even think they will do it. Maybe a version of this, but certainly not the OMFG-version that everyone is whining about!

Originally Posted by Benneb-
Other than maybe lowering the prices to entice people to buy the games

Agreed, I think the Steam holiday sales showed that everyone has a price in mind for what they are willing to pay for games. Some are happy to pay full price, some half-price, some wait for the really good deals months after release. Speaking of Steam, why don't they trust Steam?! 95% of PC gamers like Steam so why can't they work with Steam to release their games?

We should send CardJoe to get the answers!

Originally Posted by leveller
Speaking of Steam, why don't they trust Steam?! 95% of PC gamers like Steam so why can't they work with Steam to release their games?

I was thinking about that. Why dont they want to use steam? I could only really think of a few reasons. The one that stood out the most in my mind was money. Maybe they want all of that £20-30 to goto them and none to valve?

Who knows what the actual reason is.

Terrible idea. My internet connection is slow enough without this added strain to my system. Also there is enough 'Big Brother' in real life, and I dont want someone else keeping tabs on what I do, when I do it. For all you know this system could be used to monitor all your pc use and target you with adds. Whats next? I have to call Ubisoft and pre-arrange a gaming session using my CD-KEY and Passport?

On the bright side atleast one dev is keeping dedicated servers (even if it is only for savegames)! If IW implemented this there would be no cloud server and my saves would be stored on another gamer's pc, and his saves on mine! Steam is brilliant, I buy all my games on it (when they match the prices of other retailers).

"At the moment, if Ubisoft release a PC version, essentially what you're getting is a console port and they rip you off. Rubbish games are killing profit." is what he should have said. He calls us all criminals and then expects us to buy his game?

Originally Posted by leveller
Agreed. It annoys the hell out of me when I have to watch the 2 minutes rolling text from the federation against copyright theft before the film starts, time to put the kettle on at least.
...
Agreed, I think the Steam holiday sales showed that everyone has a price in mind for what they are willing to pay for games.

Correct, now with BluRay, you can have real cinema feeling at home. 5 Min's of copyright warnings / update firmware advice and loadscreens for the effin menu.
Also: unlike DVD's BluRays don't continue where you left of. press the stop button for whatever reason, and you go through the whole 5 min's shenanigans again.
Makes me remember why I ripped DVD's and stripped the menu in the first place.:|

Steam sales...yeah, just bought Psychonauts for 2€ off Steam :D
Who said pricing doesn't attract customers?

Passphrase copy protection...I think I've got the photocopied handbook of "Leisure Suit Larry in the Land of the Lounge Lizards" somewhere..lost the disks about two decades ago though. ;)

**** off. I am done with this s***. I will not buy anything that has this kind of DRM. Ever. I'd rather crawl under a rock and live like a hermit. I never bought a single mp3 until I discovered DRM-free etailers.

Part of the first sentance from an article "Broken By Design" (Hot Hardware)
".... the corporate executives at the helm have the collective intelligence of a ham sandwich."

Had to get out the spare keyboard whilst my regular keyboard is made coffee free again. :D

This is a real shame, I was looking forward to ACII.

I've never pirated a game, I never will as I find them good value for money (generally because I buy games months down the line at bargain prices :D).

This action means I will definitely not buy a game that I was actually intending to buy near release date, the only chance I will buy it now is if further down the line this nonsensical internet based control is rescinded.

I do not want my internet on all of the time and if their servers go down then I wouldn't be able to play a game that I own.

I don't care how reliable their infrastructure may or may not be I fundamentally disagree with paying to own something which I do not have the ultimate control over as to whether I can actually use it.

well i was just thinking of buying Settlers 7 but this DRM thing NO WAY i`m always on the go in airports and i want a game thats myne , all myne!!!!!!! get it UBISOFT, i certainly don`t need an overlord on top of me.

Originally Posted by Basile
well i was just thinking of buying Settlers 7 but this DRM thing NO WAY i`m always on the go in airports and i want a game thats myne , all myne!!!!!!! get it UBISOFT, i certainly don`t need an overlord on top of me.

Thread's from almost two years ago mate.

bad news all round then, not that ubisoft create the best games ever...