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Modern Warfare 2 has no dedicated servers

Modern Warfare 2 has no dedicated servers

Infinity Ward has introduced a new matchmaking system for Modern Warfare 2, called IWNet.

Infinity Ward has outraged fans this weekend by unveiling a new matchmaking service for Modern Warfare 2 which will replace dedicated servers and fundamentally change the way that PC players interact with the game.

Unveiled by Infinity Ward's Robert Bowling at BashandSlash, the new system will only be used for the PC version and is called IWNet. It'll run alongside Steam and also tie in to Valve's VAC anti-cheat system, abandoning the old Punkbuster system. That's the good news.

The bad news is that dedicated servers are now a thing of the past and there's no option to browse servers. You can still set up private matches with specific players, but otherwise you rely on the matchmaking system to choose a server for you. No dedicated servers, no LAN matches.

"You are completely reliant on IW.NET. There are no server lists. There are no dedicated servers," clarified Bowling.

Addressing concerns about how this may affect custom content for the game, Bowling said he had no real information on that front as IWNet is a "code heavy project" which he isn't hugely involved in right now, so he couldn't promise anything. Many sites are now reporting that mod support may have been removed from the PC game.

"I don't have those answers yet," said Bowling, when pressed on the topic.

Downloadable content for the game is definitely still supported, with Infinity Ward confirming that it'll be a paid-for product on the PC.

"This is the first time we've ever done something like this, obviously," Bowling said, "and I know the team has huge plans for what IWNet develops into, and this is just the beginning. It's hard for me to speak personally towward IWNet, because that is a code heavy project."

Bowling said that the up-side of IWNet though is that it allows Infinity Ward a lot more control over the community and the way players get updates. Won't help them roll out a demo though.

Fans are generally reacting badly to the news it seems, with many bit-tech readers announcing they have cancelled their pre-orders in protest. As RPS points out though, we don't have a full picture just yet and Infinity Ward is likely to release more info soon.

The news has already broken in the bit-tech forums, so jump in their and let us know your thoughts.

352 Comments

Discuss in the forums Reply
GoodBytes 18th October 2009, 00:34 Quote
"PC has been turned into console. " What is that supposed to mean?
rpsgc 18th October 2009, 00:36 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodBytes
"PC has been turned into console. " What is that supposed to mean?

What do you think it means? Matchmaking, no dedicated servers, no mods, no custom maps, paid DLC, etc.
elliot1508 18th October 2009, 01:22 Quote
I just don't understand why IW and Activision are doing this I was looking forward to this game until now.
I will miss the competitive play and pro-mod
that's one less sale from me.:'(
rpsgc 18th October 2009, 01:26 Quote
Feel free to e-mail info@infinityward.com to show them your dissatisfaction. Even attach a screenshot of your cancelled pre-order.
Gunsmith 18th October 2009, 01:35 Quote
HA! saw that coming.

this **** has got to stop.
October 18th October 2009, 01:38 Quote
Given that there would likely not be an Infinity Ward or CoD series in the first place if not for the popularity of the first two games on the PC...

In fairness, matchmaking and so on isn't really that bad. I've only played the first online via the PS3 and it's a lot of fun. Lack of mod support blows big time though, I played the first two games to death back in the day. Still bring out CoD2 for some lan funsies.
elliot1508 18th October 2009, 01:38 Quote
IMO they will change it back. there are so many people outraged by this change
Gunsmith 18th October 2009, 01:48 Quote
i doubt it very much, tbh im not all that bothered, i wasnt planning on picking it up anyway just like the rest of the childish overhyped crap being released these days.
keir 18th October 2009, 02:43 Quote
There better be a f'ing demo first then!
tominated 18th October 2009, 02:50 Quote
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUU-

glad i didn't pre-order.
Er-El 18th October 2009, 03:35 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by rpsgc
What do you think it means? Matchmaking, no dedicated servers, no mods, no custom maps, paid DLC, etc.
Matchmaking is actually one good thing I wish more PC multiplayer games had. I guess good thing come out of this as well bad. But charging for DLC and no mods!
wafflesomd 18th October 2009, 03:52 Quote
Wow.

You've gotta be kidding me....
knuck 18th October 2009, 05:16 Quote
wait WHAT ??????????????????


I'll write to IW and cancel my pre order


F THAT



edit:

i couldn't even find an email I could join them on ... I want them to know i'm mad and I don't want to be the only one


F THOSE DAMN CONSOLES


KLAJHWERGOLHTGLWITUBWKLEGH



I'm mad and saddened at the same time ... :(
wafflesomd 18th October 2009, 05:54 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghys
wait WHAT ??????????????????


I'll write to IW and cancel my pre order


F THAT



edit:

i couldn't even find an email I could join them on ... I want them to know i'm mad and I don't want to be the only one


F THOSE DAMN CONSOLES


KLAJHWERGOLHTGLWITUBWKLEGH



I'm mad and saddened at the same time ... :(

I was actually looking forward to playing this....
Elton 18th October 2009, 06:42 Quote
Well this is certainly disappointing.

This will make knife only matches never possible again...Oh the fun of those servers.
wafflesomd 18th October 2009, 08:38 Quote
I am going to pirate this game to no end.
DarkLord7854 18th October 2009, 08:54 Quote
Hahahahahahahaha. Thanks IW, F*ck you too.

I'm not buying MW2. Canceling my pre-order.


I'm tired of this b/s with developers.
rpsgc 18th October 2009, 09:26 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Er-El
Matchmaking is actually one good thing I wish more PC multiplayer games had. I guess good thing come out of this as well bad. But charging for DLC and no mods!

"It will be all done through matchmaking like the console. Which means that a user will host the match, not the server."

Good thing? I think not!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghys
i couldn't even find an email I could join them on ... I want them to know i'm mad and I don't want to be the only one(
Quote:
Originally Posted by rpsgc
Feel free to e-mail info@infinityward.com to show them your dissatisfaction. Even attach a screenshot of your cancelled pre-order.

^^
rpsgc 18th October 2009, 09:29 Quote
So, basically:
Quote:
Here are the snippets:

We're doing a lot on the backend to make the game accessible for everyone.
There is no delay for the PC version of MW2
There's prestige mode
Jason West at the MP event, said that he was dead on, on the matchmaking servers. We've been building a system on the backend called IW.NET.
You are completely reliant on IW.NET. There are no server lists. There are no dedicated servers.
You have private matches where you can customize the game
You cannot put MW2 on a dedicated server.
This is the first time we've ever done something like this and the team has huge plans for what IW.NET develops into.
Customizing your game...you have quite a few options in a private match
You're getting same game (as in Console), plus matchmaking and private match.
Server admin point-of view, NO DEDICATED SERVERS

I've summarized some of my own thoughts from the cast here:

General

IW partnering through Steam is what you will see in the future. Matchmaking is not through Steam, but IW.NET is run in conjunction with Steam.
GSP's will no longer be renting out servers.
No PunkBuster. VAC will be used as an anti cheat.
Retail distribution: Pre-orders will get a disk. Or you could order from Steam.
DLC may now need to be paid for - not confirmed.
Piracy was only a small reason for going to IW.NET - not the whole reason.

Clans:

No more clan servers. Private matches, replace clan servers.
Listen servers will connect to each other.
IW.NET/Steam will replace the community server admin

Competitive Gaming

Competitive gaming has changed forever.
It might be possible in the future for IW engineers to load a "competitive" setting on IW.NET, but it is far from a guarantee. It might also never happen.

Modding

Modding the game is now very much in question. Fourzerotwo had no info on modding. However, it appears that there will be no mods or maps for MW2.
Modding in SpecOps? Unknown.

http://bashandslash.com/
[ZiiP] NaloaC 18th October 2009, 09:38 Quote
I am really annoyed with this bit of news. I was delighted when I saw that it wasn't delayed, but then when they stated no dedicated servers on that live stream...the silence kid of said it all.

I reckon there are 3 ways it can go;

1) It will be a crappy console port from the get-go and not be improved upon and the network code is crap, but the SP should be solid.

2) The devs will release dedicated support somewhow and all will be ok.

3) The new "matchmaking" will work straight out of the box and we can game to our hearts content, safe in the knowledge that we will have to pay for any DLC.

Matchmaking. What the hell. Personally, I do NOT want to play against people at the same rank. I give a flying toss about your rank. It does not mean jack about whether or not you are fun to game with. I want to play with mates and people I trust and have great fun playing with, like all of the members in ZiiP

Manys a time I have gone onto a server after restarting a profile, rank 5 or something and kick the living crap out of lvl55 people who seem to barely know which end of a sniper-rifle to point towards the enemy.

I am pissed off with this news, but hopefully in the coming week, IW will release more information about this new system and whether or not it will acutally work as intended.

There are some things that I really want to know;

- What is the maximum player number through IW.net?
- What are the system requirements?
- Do we have to pay for DLC (map pack confirmed for early next year)
- IS THERE HARDCORE MODE?
- Can the "matchmaking" restriction on rank be disregarded so that we can play with anyone we know
- Will there be a working friends list.

If I can get some answers for even some of these things, I will be happy (if the answers are good).
rpsgc 18th October 2009, 09:47 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by [ZiiP] NaloaC
- IS THERE HARDCORE MODE?

OH S**T! I totally forgot about Hardcore mode!
Pieface 18th October 2009, 10:35 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by keir
There better be a f'ing demo first then!

Already been announced there is no Demo hasn't there?
rpsgc 18th October 2009, 10:36 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pieface
Already been announced there is no Demo hasn't there?

Yes, sadly. No demo and no beta. It all starts to make sense now...
Krikkit 18th October 2009, 11:11 Quote
To be fair Steam and VAC are a good thing imo, but no dedicated servers? FAIL.

Matchmaking? FAIL.

No way was I going to pre-order this, now I'm not even going to bother until I see it at <£20 just for the singleplayer.
rpsgc 18th October 2009, 11:13 Quote
Someone please call TROGDOR, THE BURNINATOR! to burn down IW :D
DragunovHUN 18th October 2009, 11:14 Quote
I see nothing about this on Fourzerotwo's twitter, so i call bullshit for now.

The only source Kotaku cites is "a webcast" so i'm not convinced. I want to hear the man himself confirm this.
rpsgc 18th October 2009, 11:17 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by DragunovHUN
I see nothing about this on Fourzerotwo's twitter, so i call bullshit for now.

The only source Kotaku cites is "a webcast" so i'm not convinced. I want to hear the man himself confirm this.

http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/2369799 -> 1h41m
HEAR it from him then.

I don't post bullshit.
DragunovHUN 18th October 2009, 11:28 Quote
Sounds a bit similiar to him. But is that supposed to be evidence? Don't you think such a game-changing, or even platform-changing feature would be announced on more than just some random guy's webcast?

rpsgc dude stop editing your post lol, i'm losing track of your edits.
rpsgc 18th October 2009, 11:30 Quote
http://bashandslash.com/ is hardly "some random guy".

Neither are the remaining participants:

"Thanks to Rob, PST*Joker from mycallofduty.com, Rudedog from fpsadmin.com, Garetjax from codtv.tv, Josh from Planetmedalofhonor.com, MatTks from @weplaycod (Twitter) and weplaycod.com, iBleedv20 at omnilinkit.com and the hordes in our chatroom and ventrilo."


Maybe they didn't want it announced to the whole word...?
DragunovHUN 18th October 2009, 11:34 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by rpsgc
http://bashandslash.com/ is hardly "some random guy"

Why, what IS bashandslash.com then? Because it doesn't look like much.

This looks just like any other scare rumor that has been confirmed fake already.

I already told you: I'll believe it when i see some confirmation from a credible source.
rpsgc 18th October 2009, 11:36 Quote
Fine, believe what you want. I give up, it's pointless. I can't compete with such powerful logic as "I never heard of him before so it must be bullshit".
It's not Robert Bowling talking? OK. Keep fooling yourself.
DragunovHUN 18th October 2009, 11:50 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by rpsgc
Fine, believe what you want.
You'll let me do that? Why thank you!

Just why are you so upset about this? Are you a COD hater, or what? We'll see what the truth is soon enough, untill then just calm down mate. Nervousness is bad for your health.
[ZiiP] NaloaC 18th October 2009, 11:53 Quote
I actually think my biggest worry now is that I have heard nothing about Hardcord Mode.

I couldn't stand the softcore nonsense in CoD4, that and the obscene bunny hopping.

Hell, even if 10v10 runs smoothly, if there is HC, I will still get it.

I'll not hold my breath on anything, but will certainly wait to make any decisions until I hear some official postings from the devs, not Twitter or the webcast (and yes I have seen/heard both).
Krikkit 18th October 2009, 11:54 Quote
Stop the flames. Now.
smc8788 18th October 2009, 11:58 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by [ZiiP] NaloaC
I actually think my biggest worry now is that I have heard nothing about Hardcord Mode.

They had the Hardcore mode in the console version of MW1 which used a matchmaking service, so I don't see why it would be different on the PC.

It was a popular game mode, so I don't think they'd scrap it altogether. At least I hope not, because that's all I used to play, so I'd have more reason to keep playing MW1 if they did.
DragunovHUN 18th October 2009, 11:59 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by rpsgc

Maybe they didn't want it announced to the whole word...?

Why not? And if they didn't want to announce it to the whole world, they wouldn't have announced it at all because they know how the word spreads on the internet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by smc8788
They had the Hardcore mode in the console version of MW1 which used a matchmaking service, so I don't see why it would be different on the PC.

That's a really good point you guys brought up there. The console versions of COD4 do have Hardcore mode but not with every game mode. You can't change Friendly Fire values either. I hope the system will be a bit more flexible this time around. That is assuming we'll really lose dedicated servers.
rpsgc 18th October 2009, 12:00 Quote
Just because you refuse to believe it doesn't mean it's a lie, nor does it gives you the right to disrespect and disparage a reputable website and its owner simply because you don't like what was said there (by Robert Bowling I might add), much less because you don't know the fansite.
[ZiiP] NaloaC 18th October 2009, 12:02 Quote
Chill out. Just try to calm down.

I'm sure there will be official press releases during the week :)

Hell, he could have been taking the mick, he was in Amsterdam, who knows what he was on :D
bogie170 18th October 2009, 12:02 Quote
Everyone please go sign the petition here:

To: infinity ward

Get Infinity Ward to review their decision not to allow fully dedicated servers for their forthcoming game release CoD:MW2. Remember that this Call of Duty was made popular by PC Gamers who have supported the series throughout.

Sincerely,

The Undersigned

http://www.petitiononline.com/dedis4mw/petition.html

It going up exponentially, 6122 and rising!

F**k IW. F**k MW2.
Mankz 18th October 2009, 12:18 Quote
WHAT?

The multiplayer system for COD4 was WONDEFUL. Sure, I got the occasional Pb kick for no real reason, but it was GREAT....

WHY FUUUUUUUUUUUU- IT UP?

I don't want some Asian guy stealing my processing power and bandwith.

Its now basically a £45 Single player game that I could download in a day... Congrats IW.
rpsgc 18th October 2009, 12:21 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mankz
WHAT?

The multiplayer system for COD4 was WONDEFUL. Sure, I got the occasional Pb kick for no real reason, but it was GREAT....

WHY FUUUUUUUUUUUU- IT UP?

I don't want some Asian guy stealing my processing power and bandwith.

MOOOOOOONEYY!! (the answer to everything)
DragunovHUN 18th October 2009, 12:27 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by rpsgc
MOOOOOOONEYY!! (the answer to everything)

I don't see how matchmaking would be in any way profitable for IW. Could you elaborate on that theory? I'm genuinely interrested.
rpsgc 18th October 2009, 12:28 Quote
If it saves them money...
DragunovHUN 18th October 2009, 12:29 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by rpsgc
If it saves them money...

How?
smc8788 18th October 2009, 12:32 Quote
Surely, as with everything else they've done with this game, it's to cut down on piracy (i.e. no cracked servers)?
DragunovHUN 18th October 2009, 12:33 Quote
Yeah, that could very well be it smc8788. Previous COD games had lots of cracked servers.
rpsgc 18th October 2009, 12:36 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by DragunovHUN
How?

How does it not?
DragunovHUN 18th October 2009, 12:41 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by rpsgc
How does it not?
No, seriously, how does it save them a penny?

Every single dedicated server for previous COD games was payed for by the community. All IW had to do was provide a master server that lists all the other servers. Now they have to support a matchmaking system. Now it actually costs them more. - Again, assuming that there will in fact be a matchmaking system for the PC version.
knuck 18th October 2009, 13:49 Quote
mail to IW:
Quote:
I wont even bother typing a 5 sentences message because you don't seem to be able to listen to your customers anyway.I am canceling my pre-order of cod6 on PC because you are "consolifiying" the game with your match making crap. Good luck trying to sell your beginners game to hardcore gamers ...

Ghyslain Laplante
frontline 18th October 2009, 14:10 Quote
Dedicated servers on Steam would have been great, but no dedicated servers at all = one more lost sale.
iSniper 18th October 2009, 14:17 Quote
Infinity Ward just keep nailing down the coffin. Thing is, they have so many 'fans' following them like they are the Pied Piper that they can afford to do such things. There are around 2-million pre-orders for the game on the Xbox alone, and rising, IW don't give a damn about anyone, no matter what they say.
GravitySmacked 18th October 2009, 14:19 Quote
Goddammit I hope they change their mind, no dedicated servers is an travesty.
acron^ 18th October 2009, 15:15 Quote
Wow. Fickle much?

But no, this is more than a little tragic. How will this affect LAN play? Anyone know?
Viper355 18th October 2009, 15:29 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by acron^
Wow. Fickle much?

But no, this is more than a little tragic. How will this affect LAN play? Anyone know?

there wont be any.
samkiller42 18th October 2009, 15:37 Quote
Ohhh, booo hooo, still getting the game, only played CoD4 online about 3 times, didn't even touch online on the 360 version. As long as the story is good enough, it will keep me quiet for a few days.

Sam

Edit, Some other news:
"No delay on PC for Modern Warfare 2. You'll also have Prestige Mode in PC as well as lots of Steam support. Hopefully min specs will be soon" From a twitter feed
frontline 18th October 2009, 16:04 Quote
Single player of COD4 was good, but short. The main attraction to me was playing online on dedicated servers, especially hardcore mode. Take that away and i'd only probably buy MW2 for the single player when it drops in price a few months after it is released.
smc8788 18th October 2009, 18:04 Quote
It seems 2009 is the year of the boycott:

http://steamcommunity.com/groups/BOYCOTTMW2

...only this one makes sense.
rpsgc 18th October 2009, 18:10 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by smc8788
It seems 2009 is the year of the boycott:

http://steamcommunity.com/groups/BOYCOTTMW2

...only this one makes sense.

Throw in this one for good measure :p
knuck 18th October 2009, 18:12 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by samkiller42
Ohhh, booo hooo, still getting the game, only played CoD4 online about 3 times, didn't even touch online on the 360 version. As long as the story is good enough, it will keep me quiet for a few days.

Sam

Edit, Some other news:
"No delay on PC for Modern Warfare 2. You'll also have Prestige Mode in PC as well as lots of Steam support. Hopefully min specs will be soon" From a twitter feed

you cannot say that if you don't play multiplayer. If you buy it for singleplayer then great but the big majority of PC buyers want the game to frag online and this news just made me not want to pay for this game anymore

I think now would be an appropriate time to bring back my "death to consolification" signature
wafflesomd 18th October 2009, 18:30 Quote
There's no way they honestly think this is going to stop piracy.

I'll make sure to get all my friends to torrent it multiple times.
knuck 18th October 2009, 18:31 Quote
revenge wouldn't work ... it would only prove them right

sort of
rpsgc 18th October 2009, 18:32 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by wafflesomd
There's no way they honestly think this is going to stop piracy.

I'll make sure to get all my friends to torrent it multiple times.

It could stop cracked servers, as there will be no dedicated servers now, plus it being integrated with Steam.
[ZiiP] NaloaC 18th October 2009, 19:02 Quote
wafflesomd 18th October 2009, 19:04 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by [ZiiP] NaloaC
HAHA! Looks like DICE are cashing in on this :D

http://kotaku.com/5384290/dice-makes-hay-with-dedicated-server-controversy

That's pretty good lol.
Mankz 18th October 2009, 19:07 Quote
I don't think i've ever seen such a unanimus outcry from the PC community...
smc8788 18th October 2009, 19:12 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mankz
I don't think i've ever seen such a unanimus outcry from the PC community...

No, but surely by removing the communities' favourite feature from one of the most anticipated games of all time they would have seen it coming
TheBlackSwordsMan 18th October 2009, 19:16 Quote
What can I said ? They try to Kill the PC Gaming, Build a States of Noob... They said 'We dont want you to think'

Infinity Ward, I'm so disappointed by your lack of respect in the people who Pushed your company since the beggining
knuck 18th October 2009, 19:26 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by [ZiiP] NaloaC
HAHA! Looks like DICE are cashing in on this :D

http://kotaku.com/5384290/dice-makes-hay-with-dedicated-server-controversy

very nice

wow i can't believe I am actually tempted by Battlefield now hahaha


I fear IW is going to pull an Epic on us. They make the pc version crap and don't listen to players, therefore the game doesn't sell well which means IW will blame piracy and stop making PC games altogether
rpsgc 18th October 2009, 19:29 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by [ZiiP] NaloaC
HAHA! Looks like DICE are cashing in on this :D

http://kotaku.com/5384290/dice-makes-hay-with-dedicated-server-controversy

Good one ;)
knuck 18th October 2009, 19:36 Quote
I've read here and there that it's going to 'change communities' and all but I still cannot find how this change could possibly be for the best ?

What is impressive is how IW managed to become public enemy #1 in a matter of hours, this is quite insane :D

I bet Treyarch is happy to see IW fail :D
DAVEtheRAVE 18th October 2009, 19:44 Quote
Crap! That means no LAN! :(

We are constantly playing COD4 on the school network.... damn...
ImInTheZoneBaby 18th October 2009, 20:59 Quote
I just found this out. FUUUUUUUUUU~
This is absolutely stupid, dedicated servers are the foundation of the PC multiplayer scene. This is an outrage!
azzybish 18th October 2009, 21:31 Quote
I'm impressed by the community's response to this, and there was a very good point made on one of the Kotaku posts. Most console gamers dont actually realise what a dedicated server is, and so their common reaction is 'i dont care, it doesnt make much difference'.

People have already said this, but dedi's provide the base for individual communities.
knuck 18th October 2009, 22:11 Quote
I am impressed as well ! The petition has 30 000 signatures already ! When I signed it this morning (or was it late last night?) I was the 1800th to sign it
wafflesomd 18th October 2009, 22:19 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghys
I am impressed as well ! The petition has 30 000 signatures already ! When I signed it this morning (or was it late last night?) I was the 1800th to sign it

Even if half the people who signed it, didn't but it, that's a very big loss that I doubt they are willing to take.

I expect to hear IW comment on the matter soon.
knuck 18th October 2009, 22:21 Quote
if you refresh the page every time you press F5 you can see a new name on the list. It's insane how fast people are signing this thing ! I can't wait for IW's reaction
rpsgc 18th October 2009, 22:24 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghys
if you refresh the page every time you press F5 you can see a new name on the list. It's insane how fast people are signing this thing ! I can't wait for IW's reaction

They'll downplay it, claim people are making a big fuss over nothing and start a barrage of incredibly intricate and mind boggling PR bullshit to fool people into believing it's all OK.
smc8788 18th October 2009, 22:29 Quote
To be fair, I'm not sure we should be placing all blame on IW, as I'm sure Activision had quite a bit of say in this decision. I also don't expect them to make a U-turn on this, at least not right away. Lost sales or not, the executives that made this decision clearly aren't in touch with the community and will continue in their misguided view that this is a good idea.

Maybe later on when sales have died down they might do something about it, but it's unlikely TBH; they sounded pretty committed to this "revolutionary idea" to me. Maybe if they had released this news officially with more information about the new service and the possibilities for the future then the backlash might not have been as harsh, and it wouldn't look like they were trying to cover it up.
knuck 18th October 2009, 22:30 Quote
I found this on facebook. If ever you encounter an console ignorant (not that all of them are, obviously), copy/paste him this :
Quote:
"If you have never played on a PC, and your multiplayer experience has only been delivered to you via matchmaking, then you will never really understand.
But try to imagine a host hosting a game while never turning his console off,
and you can always reach that room and play there whenever you want, night or day, because its always on.
Now imagine that host has a Pentagon grade internet connection and his X360 can handle 64 players in that room.
On top of that, the guy who's the host is actually resurrected Ghandi, so you will all be treated with respect,
anyone using racial slurs, being offensive or just detrimental to gameplay experience via TKing or exploiting glitches,
is going to be removed from that server forever.
Now imagine dozens and dozens of custom maps running on that server, which you will get for free,
because IWs not making them. Then imagine entire communities and forums built around that one room (server).
You recognize people who visit that same room, you befriend them, you have fun with these familiar folks."
rpsgc 18th October 2009, 22:32 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by smc8788
To be fair, I'm not sure we should be placing all blame on IW, as I'm sure Activision had quite a bit of say in this decision. I also don't expect them to make a U-turn on this, at least not right away. Lost sales or not, the executives that made this decision clearly aren't in touch with the community and will continue in their misguided view that this is a good idea.

I wouldn't be so quick to blame this on Activision when not long ago we learned that Activision actually "forced" IW into sticking with the PC because they wanted to leave ship and go console long before COD 4. So this is IW at work.
Sir Digby 18th October 2009, 22:33 Quote
Well I'm still yet to play the original modern warfare, so I guess I can just write a 2 on the box and pretend.

I was looking forward to Bad Company 2 more anyway.
smc8788 18th October 2009, 22:35 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by rpsgc
I wouldn't be so quick to blame this on Activision when not long ago we learned that Activision actually "forced" IW into sticking with the PC because they wanted to leave ship and go console long before COD 4. So this is IW at work.


I thought it was the other way around, and that IW was always a primarily PC oriented developer?
rpsgc 18th October 2009, 22:40 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by smc8788
I thought it was the other way around, and that IW was always a primarily PC oriented developer?

They started as PC developer but they wanted to branch out to consoles before COD 4 came out but Activision wouldn't let them because in their eyes they were a PC developer, basically.
iSniper 18th October 2009, 22:40 Quote
What I find to be the most tragic is that on the podcast I listened to where this was confirmed, it very much sounded like IW thought they were doing a good thing introducing their 'wonderful matchmaking system' to the PC community. From my experience of CoD4's console matchmaking, it's error after error after error.

I was amazed when I signed the petition, only to find my name about 20 signatures down from the latest the second after I'd hit the button. I doubt IW will be able to fob this one off.
knuck 18th October 2009, 22:42 Quote
Thinking back ... I think the last time I was so pissed about a game was when UT3 came out and was a POS


you guys should spread the word on facebook like I did :D
rpsgc 18th October 2009, 22:42 Quote
As long as they earn their millions with the consoles they don't give two bits about anything else, much less the PC :(
wuyanxu 18th October 2009, 22:47 Quote
Death to consolification!!

add it to your sig, this game has been so consolified it's even worse than UT3 (in terms of multiplayer)
Code:
Death to consolification !!!
knuck 18th October 2009, 23:10 Quote
I believe you first took this from me :D

I'll put it back now :)

edit: it's back :D
rpsgc 18th October 2009, 23:31 Quote
What madness is this about sigs and whatnot?
knuck 18th October 2009, 23:31 Quote
what ?
rpsgc 18th October 2009, 23:34 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghys
what ?

Oh nothing :D
rpsgc 18th October 2009, 23:41 Quote
Oh, and I totally forgot about this, which without a question proves that Robert Bowling is nothing more than a lying sack of ****.
Quote:
Shack: By the way, have you changed the way multiplayer games function on the PC at all?

Robert Bowling: PC will be the same as it always was.

Shack: LAN support as well?

Robert Bowling: LAN support, yes.

http://www.shacknews.com/featuredarticle.x?id=1200
knuck 18th October 2009, 23:42 Quote
things sure changed a lot in 3 weeks !

Although with a name like Bowling... maybe we were wrong to ever trust the man !
rpsgc 18th October 2009, 23:45 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghys
things sure changed a lot in 3 weeks !

Although with a name like Bowling... maybe we were wrong to ever trust the man !

Things didn't change, he just flat out lied back then.

Hitler's comments on this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FKty5Kpf4w
knuck 19th October 2009, 00:01 Quote
Quote:
everyone who has canceled their preorder

leave

immediately

rofl !
Veles 19th October 2009, 00:58 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by elliot1508
IMO they will change it back. there are so many people outraged by this change

That's wishful thinking, the game is almost released, there's no way they've got time to rework the multiplayer networking.

As far as players hosting the game, connections are getting so fast now that it's not really gonna be a huge issue, CoD4 works just fine for me on my 360, rarely have a game with terrible lag.
KayinBlack 19th October 2009, 01:10 Quote
I don't even play FPSes, but I signed simply because I hate the consolification of PC games.
knuck 19th October 2009, 01:14 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Veles
That's wishful thinking, the game is almost released, there's no way they've got time to rework the multiplayer networking.

As far as players hosting the game, connections are getting so fast now that it's not really gonna be a huge issue, CoD4 works just fine for me on my 360, rarely have a game with terrible lag.

for how many players ?
sotu1 19th October 2009, 01:48 Quote
ok, so i'm a bit dense about this sorta thing because I don't play CoD4 online so a lot of this goes over my head (shock horror i know)

from what i gather the result effects is:

the thousands of private servers will disappear
the chance of playing with the same types of people of my choice will disappear
the modding community will deplete quickly because CoD6 won't allow it (let's not forget great mods like COUNTER STRIKE are utterly critical)
clan matches are likely to go down too....

this is bad right? what GOOD things are there?

the only FPS i play a lot of online is Battle Field 2, and I play a lot on the Jolt servers because they play the maps i like to play on and with the rule set i like to play on. are you telling me that CoD6 won't have this kind of feature? if so that's bad. that's very very bad.
wafflesomd 19th October 2009, 01:50 Quote
Yeah, you pretty much covered all the bases.
October 19th October 2009, 02:47 Quote
I'm pretty sure no matter how many people sign that petition and choose not to buy the PC version, they're still gonna sell a few million console copies. Pretty sure that's all they're gonna be interested in, much as it pains me to say.
knuck 19th October 2009, 02:50 Quote
well if we don't bitch and moan then they just win ...

they can't lose, but we can't let them win
TurtlePerson2 19th October 2009, 03:17 Quote
This is really bad news. This was going to be the game that I bought this year for Christmas. I like to find a cool clan's server and I'll just play there until I get tired of a game. That's why I still play CSS because the server I play at is so cool.

I don't really understand why they did this. MW2 could have used the same online system as MW1, so why did they just throw it out?
rpsgc 19th October 2009, 07:33 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by sotu1
ok, so i'm a bit dense about this sorta thing because I don't play CoD4 online so a lot of this goes over my head (shock horror i know)

from what i gather the result effects is:

the thousands of private servers will disappear
the chance of playing with the same types of people of my choice will disappear
the modding community will deplete quickly because CoD6 won't allow it (let's not forget great mods like COUNTER STRIKE are utterly critical)
clan matches are likely to go down too....

this is bad right? what GOOD things are there?

I can't think of any good one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sotu1
the only FPS i play a lot of online is Battle Field 2, and I play a lot on the Jolt servers because they play the maps i like to play on and with the rule set i like to play on. are you telling me that CoD6 won't have this kind of feature? if so that's bad. that's very very bad.

Yes, that is what they're trying to do.
acron^ 19th October 2009, 08:05 Quote
In defence of IW (and for the fact that I love playing devil's advocate), hardcore PC gamers need to understand that they are a minority. IW don't care what you think. They are going to sell bucket loads of MW2 anyway.

Look back at this thread. The clues are all there. IW didn't want to even release a PC version. Why not? Piracy? Technical issues? Pick your perfectly valid reason. Ok, so Activision demands. Why would they write an entirely separate multiplayer system for a platform they don't even want to support? The quickest, cheapest, least complicated way is just to bolt it onto their existing matchmaking service and wrap it up like some Battle.Net clone.

And then, PC owners bitch about it. Piracy, technical issues and unappeasable, trolling idiots. Remind me why developers make PC games anymore?
frontline 19th October 2009, 08:16 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by acron^
In defence of IW (and for the fact that I love playing devil's advocate), hardcore PC gamers need to understand that they are a minority. IW don't care what you think. They are going to sell bucket loads of MW2 anyway.

Look back at this thread. The clues are all there. IW didn't want to even release a PC version. Why not? Piracy? Technical issues? Pick your perfectly valid reason. Ok, so Activision demands. Why would they write an entirely separate multiplayer system for a platform they don't even want to support? The quickest, cheapest, least complicated way is just to bolt it onto their existing matchmaking service and wrap it up like some Battle.Net clone.

And then, PC owners bitch about it. Piracy, technical issues and unappeasable, trolling idiots. Remind me why developers make PC games anymore?

Even if Activision notice a drop in sales of 10-15% solely because of this issue, i doubt they would be particularly happy about IW's decision. My guess is that Treyarch will be releasing all future COD franchised titles on the PC, which is a shame. Although it is probably what IW wanted in the long run.
wafflesomd 19th October 2009, 08:43 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by acron^
In defence of IW (and for the fact that I love playing devil's advocate), hardcore PC gamers need to understand that they are a minority. IW don't care what you think. They are going to sell bucket loads of MW2 anyway.

Look back at this thread. The clues are all there. IW didn't want to even release a PC version. Why not? Piracy? Technical issues? Pick your perfectly valid reason. Ok, so Activision demands. Why would they write an entirely separate multiplayer system for a platform they don't even want to support? The quickest, cheapest, least complicated way is just to bolt it onto their existing matchmaking service and wrap it up like some Battle.Net clone.

And then, PC owners bitch about it. Piracy, technical issues and unappeasable, trolling idiots. Remind me why developers make PC games anymore?

So what's it like to be 5 years behind us in hardware?
rpsgc 19th October 2009, 09:45 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by acron^
Look back at this thread. The clues are all there. IW didn't want to even release a PC version

Reading comprehension FTL
I said they stated that they didn't want to be a PC exclusive developer, i.e. they're money hungry arse bandits (look I learned a new word).
M7ck 19th October 2009, 09:58 Quote
Over 46k signatures now, lets all hope this make a difference.
infi 19th October 2009, 10:12 Quote
matchmaking IS a good thing and makes a nice FEATURE, but please, it's a feature nothing more nothing less, add it to a game, and don't cripple it to death.
Abhorsen 19th October 2009, 10:18 Quote
WTF!?!?! I don't fully understand but if my rushed reading is right this has just killed MW2 totally.

*Had to check it wasn't April 1st.
rpsgc 19th October 2009, 10:21 Quote
DICE has another go at it ;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Demize99@DICE
We feel it's important to support the unique community needs of the PC community. Dedicated servers are a big part of this, and we recognize that requirement. We're putting a server browser and matchmaking in 1943 PC and the same features are intended for BFBC2. We're working hard on the PC version with a dedicated team building and molding the game so it is not a console port. This team is lead by DICE developers responsible for Battlefield 2. Very experienced and hardcore PC gamers.

http://forums.electronicarts.co.uk/battlefield-bad-company-2/838715-please-dont-let-happen-bc2.html#post11677889

Quote:
#Battlefield You're dedicated to your game, why shouldn't your servers be dedicated too? We understand your pain #MW2 PC fans.

http://twitter.com/Demize99/status/4970110139

Quote:
@Demize99 What else would people expect from a PC game that's only a port of their console game.

http://twitter.com/GordonVanDyke/status/4970389336
liratheal 19th October 2009, 10:24 Quote
Don't care about IW.Net. Don't care about PB going. Don't care about VAC. Don't care about Steam.

Do care about dedicated servers.

Didn't preorder, so I can't cancel. Was kinda pissed about the whole.. "Let's make it unforgivably expensive" thing. Looks like another game I'll be passing up on.
shigllgetcha 19th October 2009, 10:33 Quote
lol 113 posts in 32 mins. it doesnt matter what they do this game will sell like crazy and im pretty sure they knew this would cause outrage when they decided so they wont care what anyone says

it has to be to cut down on piracy, atleast its one of the big reasons, why else would they pay for servers. it has to be easier to keep pirates from joining dedicated servers

not buying the game wont send a message as the vast majority will still buy it no matter what, and even if it was boycotted fully itd just be a reason to drop the format. even if 25% of PC gamers didnt buy it its still a small precentage of the overall sales. across 3 formats that would mean only 8.3% and if it cuts down on piracy it still mean win. using 25% as a guess

they know everyone wants their product do they can charge what they want and do what they want. supply and demand
acron^ 19th October 2009, 10:37 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by wafflesomd
So what's it like to be 5 years behind us in hardware?

Is this some new way of participating in debates? Asking irrelevant rhetorical questions? What the hell are you talking about and what has it got to do with dedicated servers?

Ok, let me have a go; So, what's it like being more concerned about your CPU speed than your c*ck size?
Quote:
Originally Posted by rpsgc
Reading comprehension FTL
I said they stated that they didn't want to be a PC exclusive developer, i.e. they're money hungry arse bandits (look I learned a new word).

That's it, dude. Troll your way to success. That'll get you just what you want.
rpsgc 19th October 2009, 10:38 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by acron^
That's it, dude. Troll your way to success. That'll get you just what you want.

So you post a lie, I correct it and then I'm a troll, OK.
Pot, meet kettle
reflux 19th October 2009, 10:43 Quote
Load of balls tbh, cheers Infinity Ward, way to go abandoning your most loyal fanbase.
stonedsurd 19th October 2009, 10:48 Quote
Signed the petition. FU IW!
frontline 19th October 2009, 10:49 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by shigllgetcha
lol 113 posts in 32 mins.

The thread was here yesterday, the article was linked to it this morning :)
cybergenics 19th October 2009, 10:51 Quote
I have a theory, maybe not a very good one. These games developers and publishers see PC gaming as an issue as where we are now Consoles are looking like the crusty inbred relatives of the PC graphics wise, even if that fact is oblivious to most console users. Games houses don't want to be bothered to do ports to just sell a handful of games compared to consoles. They don't want PC graphics driving the technology forward when console graphics are (at the moment) pretty old tech.

To use a comparison of what I am mumbling about its like Pharmaceutical firms getting not wanting cures as they damage profits, they just want treatments and suchlike. The more PC tech drives graphics forward, the worse console games are going to look and the worse these ports are going to look. Seems like these firms know this and are taking these kinds of measures to try and kill PC gaming.

If there were next gen consoles just out, fine, but that's not happening any time soon.
cliffski 19th October 2009, 10:51 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by wafflesomd
There's no way they honestly think this is going to stop piracy.

I'll make sure to get all my friends to torrent it multiple times.


In doing so, you do way more to kill off PC gaming than infinity ward could possibly do.

You don't like this aspect of an upcoming game? Neither do I, but that entitles NEITHER of us to take the product for free.

If you REALLY think this ruins the game, why would you want to pirate it? Surely it is no longer worth playing?
clumsy_culhane 19th October 2009, 10:54 Quote
As someone has already posted, sign the petition at http://www.petitiononline.com/dedis4mw/petition.html.

I can't believe this. IW have always appeared to be all for PC gaming, and have made so many good games.. It seems like a really silly marketing decision to not allow dedicated hosting..
shigllgetcha 19th October 2009, 10:55 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by frontline
The thread was here yesterday, the article was linked to it this morning :)

lol sorry it was the news was here 32 mins, looked alitte sus alright:) better zip up my ignorance is showing
impar 19th October 2009, 10:55 Quote
Greetings!
Quote:
Originally Posted by acron^
In defence of IW (and for the fact that I love playing devil's advocate), hardcore PC gamers need to understand that they are a minority.
From the almost 14 million CoD4 sales, 4,66M were PS3 versions, 7,83M were X360 versions. That leaves only ~1,5M for PC and DS.
- http://www.psu.com/Call-of-Duty-4-has-sold-nearly-14-million,-says-Activision--a007885-p0.php
- http://vgchartz.com/games/index.php?name=modern+warfare&keyword=&console=&region=All&developer=&publisher=&genre=&boxart=Both&results=50&order=Hits

Remember this?
http://www.bit-tech.net/news/gaming/2008/01/17/call_of_duty_4_piracy_is_rampant/1
Centy-face 19th October 2009, 10:59 Quote
I was firmly going to buy MW2 till I read about this. Frankly I still don't really believe it's happening it just seems like such a stupid mistake. It stings aswell to see a company I have supported on PC from their first game suddenly turn round and say "we are changing the way you have always played like it or lump it".

Well quite frankly Infinity Ward you have made it clear you have forgotten your heretige and no longer care about the PC as a gaming platform so I will be lumping it. The audacity they have at trying this is absurd to control the PC platform it has to be this way so they can charge for DLC and ban mods. Mods allow free content that they don't get and money for which shows what IW are all about, they even has the cheek to complain about piracy on a game that sold 14 million odd copies I mean you really have to be money grubbing to do that.

I have yet to speak to a single friend or person on a server who hasnt immediately cancelled their preorder or isnt going to pick it up now and I hope it bombs on the PC market charts because it would be a lesson well learned to other developers hoping to apply the same policy.

The way I think of it is easy the game is not coming out on PC it's coming out on Xbox twice.
Thedarkrage 19th October 2009, 11:04 Quote
Well F**K Activision and Infinity Ward i will just play l4d2 and wait for something else to spend my cash on
rodrigobiz 19th October 2009, 11:07 Quote
it coudy be good if the people who runs the server is dedicated, there is so much people with desire only to work with games this could be even a oportunity.

Sure that much people dont belive and dont like, because this is all new, and everybody think its gonna fail, but do you really think that a company how makes games for yearsss is doing the worst crap ever in the most lucrative game.

I dont have sure of how this work, but it will work. Is for sure that they put a lot of study over this before make any annunciate.
[PUNK] crompers 19th October 2009, 11:09 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Veles
Quote:
Originally Posted by elliot1508
IMO they will change it back. there are so many people outraged by this change

That's wishful thinking, the game is almost released, there's no way they've got time to rework the multiplayer networking.

As far as players hosting the game, connections are getting so fast now that it's not really gonna be a huge issue, CoD4 works just fine for me on my 360, rarely have a game with terrible lag.

its not just about the speed its about the community that would have built around this game had they let it. you may enjoy going into random matches with 13 year olds screaming down their xbox headsets, but some of us prefer to play with people we know or at least in a place where we can be guaranteed screaming 13 year olds will be kicked. also where we can be guaranteed a decent ping, which may not effect you whilst using a pad, but will become painfully obvious on m/kb

was looking forward to an ukmandown server for this as i play with them a lot. but as it goes i would probably rather buy the original for a reduced price when this is released and play on proper servers. screw it the build up was too good to be true aswell, signed the petition until they confirm that this wont be happening i will not be buying the game. the idea that we should give up they way we've been doing things since the days of Quake, UT i find frankly ridiculous and to try and pass it off as a positive even more so.
frontline 19th October 2009, 11:26 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by impar
Greetings!
Quote:
Originally Posted by acron^
In defence of IW (and for the fact that I love playing devil's advocate), hardcore PC gamers need to understand that they are a minority.
From the almost 14 million CoD4 sales, 4,66M were PS3 versions, 7,83M were X360 versions. That leaves only ~1,5M for PC and DS.
- http://www.psu.com/Call-of-Duty-4-has-sold-nearly-14-million,-says-Activision--a007885-p0.php
- http://vgchartz.com/games/index.php?name=modern+warfare&keyword=&console=&region=All&developer=&publisher=&genre=&boxart=Both&results=50&order=Hits

Remember this?
http://www.bit-tech.net/news/gaming/2008/01/17/call_of_duty_4_piracy_is_rampant/1

Well, even if they lost 10% of the PC sales, that would still be several million dollars of revenue, by my reckoning?

If there were 2 options pitched to Activistion for MW2: 1) Do what we did right before and maintain or possibly increase revenue 2) Screw over the PC potential buyers and maybe lose a good chunk of the revenue, i know which i'd choose.
Mentai 19th October 2009, 11:34 Quote
Ignoring that community and mod implications for a moment, from a technical standpoint this is terrible as well. Sure, everybody that IW knows in the US has cable, and this matchmaking system will work fine for them, but down here in NZ, the internet infrastructure simply can't handle it. We all have adsl with capped upload at 128k and interleaving turned on. That's a ping of 100 to local dedicated servers, there's no way in hell anybody is going to be hosting more than a few players without lagging out. We NEED dedicated servers to have any semblance of what I would consider a playable experience.

Also the logic that removing the ability to have cracked servers will reduce piracy is flawed. The only reason not to pirate a game (if you're that way inclined) is to be able to play multiplayer. Ruining multiplayer for everyone effectively removes multiplayer from the picture, leaving only a single player game. A single player game which PC gamers despise the company for. I predict the highest piracy rates of any game, ever. Way to go IW.
Mankz 19th October 2009, 11:35 Quote
Doesn't this also bring around the death of the gaming community?

I'm not part of a clan per se but play with the same group of people all the time on COD4, so now you'll have to play with random all the time.

That blows.
rpsgc 19th October 2009, 11:39 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mankz
Doesn't this also bring around the death of the gaming community?.

Of this game? Yes.
The other developers aren't this stupid/greedy, DICE even pokes fun at it saying they would never leave dedicated players without dedicated servers ;)
cybergenics 19th October 2009, 11:41 Quote
These firms want to see the death of PC gaming, hoping that the small amount of lost revenue may be made up by people who were formerly using PC's switching to consoles, which of course would happen. Porting console control schemes and getting rid of crap like autoaim is just a big ache in the balls to these developers, just have to look at OFDR to see the end result is often a big compromise too.

Console will always appeal to people, in particular most people don't want the hassle of PC gaming, endless hacks and patches to get games to work, upgrading etc, the console route of gaming is very sensible, but that is not to say it should be foisted on everyone. PC gaming whislt often a hassle is worth the extra effort, take games like Crysis and Arma II for example, you won't see graphics like that on a console and people were prepared to go through the bug fixes and wotnot to get it.
cybergenics 19th October 2009, 11:46 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by rpsgc
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mankz
Doesn't this also bring around the death of the gaming community?.

Of this game? Yes.
The other developers aren't this stupid/greedy, DICE even pokes fun at it saying they would never leave dedicated players without dedicated servers ;)

In the end, big games like this probably won't lose out much profit if they disappear from the PC. There is money to be saved in all areas of development, marketing etc etc and the fact that some PC gamers also use consoles (or would use them) to be able to play titles like this.

The other thing we have to remember is these games (just like WIndows operating system) have to run well on the customers setup. I think developers/game houses/publishers get sick of all the whining and complaints from PC gamers about how it won't run on their machine and that is juat another reason for them to want to move away from PC gaming, even if its their fault the game crashes or its the fault of the gamer with a badly configured system.
shigllgetcha 19th October 2009, 11:47 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by frontline
Well, even if they lost 10% of the PC sales, that would still be several million dollars of revenue, by my reckoning?

If there were 2 options pitched to Activistion for MW2: 1) Do what we did right before and maintain or possibly increase revenue 2) Screw over the PC potential buyers and maybe lose a good chunk of the revenue, i know which i'd choose.

from the figures above if 10% of the sales are PC, losing 10% of those means only 1% of the overall so i dont think theyll lose any sleep over that and i think profit from PC games is lower anyway am i right? and if it cuts down piracy enough to cover the the people that dont buy the game because of this theyre still winning
damienVC 19th October 2009, 12:10 Quote
50k sigs now on the petition.
bogie170 19th October 2009, 12:17 Quote
When the consoles are out of date in a years time they will come back crying to us.

Wait and see.
Mentai 19th October 2009, 12:24 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by shigllgetcha
Quote:
Originally Posted by frontline
Well, even if they lost 10% of the PC sales, that would still be several million dollars of revenue, by my reckoning?

If there were 2 options pitched to Activistion for MW2: 1) Do what we did right before and maintain or possibly increase revenue 2) Screw over the PC potential buyers and maybe lose a good chunk of the revenue, i know which i'd choose.

from the figures above if 10% of the sales are PC, losing 10% of those means only 1% of the overall so i dont think theyll lose any sleep over that and i think profit from PC games is lower anyway am i right? and if it cuts down piracy enough to cover the the people that dont buy the game because of this theyre still winning

As far as I know profit margins from PC gaming are the same as on consoles. The games are cheaper at retail because companies don't have to pay MS/Sony to release games on PC. And how does it cut down on piracy? People who were going to buy this for the multiplayer will now just pirate it for the singleplayer.
tripwired 19th October 2009, 12:31 Quote
Petition signed. This is a shocking move, no dedicated servers = no traditional server community.

I play TF2 on the GTFO Gaming's Dustbowl server, it's just not the same playing elsewhere because of the players that I've got to know there, not to mention learning their playing style (and who deserves an uber! :)) With a matchmaking system, I can't image how we'd all be able to play together. In addition, what about the subtle but welcome tweaks to game settings that dedicated servers are able to make to the vanilla gaming modes? Presumably not as comprehensive in this system.

I do wonder who's idea this was, developer or publisher. Would love to find out what relationships between dev's and publishers are like, eg. if they're like a evil necessity that unfortunately has the power to enforces changes like this.

It must be to control piracy, that's the only thing that comes to mind... but, ok, it's being released on Steam, surely this negates the ability to pirate games at all, or at least easily?

Ugh, just... rubbish. If this doesn't get changed, please vote with your wallet and leave this matchmaking rubbish to the console gamers. The PC platform deserves the full control over servers and game modes that we've come to expect over the last 10 or 15 years, don't bloody start making us regret our PC investments over the noobish consoles...
Venares 19th October 2009, 12:34 Quote
IDIOTS :(
shigllgetcha 19th October 2009, 12:41 Quote
yeh maybe they are the same

well i assume that dedicated servers would make it easier to stop piracy at least in multiplayer games. the mutilplayer is a bigger draw with CoD imo so people that want the multiplayer will have to buy it instead of pirating it as they used to do with other cod games, which would cut down piracy if it is the case that dedicated servers stop pirate games working online, which would lead to more sales from people that now have to pay to get multiplayer.

all that is dependant on the dedicated servers cutting down on piracy though, which remains to be seen.

the ease of pirating a game has to be a big factor in piracy, if it wasn't so easy less people would do it, atleast a small amount less
sc.uk^cRoSsFir3 19th October 2009, 12:42 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by elliot1508
IMO they will change it back. there are so many people outraged by this change

Think again ^_^

Codemasters have had SO MANY complaints about not including support for dedi servers in OFP2 even though it says on the back of the box that dedicated servers are recommended for online play! They say they are not working on sorting the dedi server support out...super.
[PUNK] crompers 19th October 2009, 12:50 Quote
"why support a platform that creates its own mods and gameplay variations, when you can get people to line up to pay 10 bucks for a ******** map pack?"

quote from another forum. herein lies the real answer i think $$$$.

i have to say tho that i was trying to work out how i was going to afford all these games this winter, this has just made my life that little bit easier, thanks IW.net ;)

at the end of the day they know that PC sales will nose dive as a result of this, if they dont understand that they never played the game on PC (which thinkin about it may well be the case). so what are they doing? squeezing the final bit of cash out of us before they become entirely console developers. this will be the final COD game on PC, mark my words.
Trefarm 19th October 2009, 12:54 Quote
I preferred the old Bit-Tech... without the name calling children.
wuyanxu 19th October 2009, 12:56 Quote
signed partition number 51617 :)

come on, get it to 100k.
Elton 19th October 2009, 12:57 Quote
"Get your hands off my stack!!"

That pretty much covers this.
Veles 19th October 2009, 13:42 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by frontline
Even if Activision notice a drop in sales of 10-15% solely because of this issue

I really think you're overestimating the market share of hardcore gamers who won't buy because of this.

MW2 will sell by the bucketload, any loss of sales will easily be covered by them not having to fork out for dedicated servers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bogie170
When the consoles are out of date in a years time they will come back crying to us.

Wait and see.

No, they won't, consoles are already out of date but they're still developing for them primarily. In a few years, the next generation will be out.
smc8788 19th October 2009, 13:45 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Veles
any loss of sales will easily be covered by them not having to fork out for dedicated servers.

You really have no idea what a dedicated server is, do you?
rpsgc 19th October 2009, 13:46 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by smc8788
You really have no idea what a dedicated server is, do you?

Obviously he doesn't.
leexgx 19th October 2009, 13:53 Quote
these links below is where it may have started this stuff

http://kotaku.com/5384057/new-modern-warfare-matchmaking-service-will-definitely-reshape-pc-community

i would listen to all of it but at 1hr 38 mins is where some one joins in to talk about it
http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/2369799
comments for above

bad thing with match making is more for users who live out of good ping range and some times match making making picking an far server with bad ping or an Player hosted game like consoles (L4D good example of this) the ping of the host will be 0 so he have ultimate advantage (do not think COD6 has this), but if there service is down we not able to play it online
most servers do not use voice on the PC as most players on the PC do not use it (makes the voice perk pointless no one uses it), on console and PC its Very simple to mute players (think its select then go down to the players and press X on them, PC its hold tab i think and click on them or ESC mute players)
i hate dogs on COD5 (do not get points for it any way)
chopper is not so bad on COD4
,,,,,
first source i think was http://bashandslash.com/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=1
NethLyn 19th October 2009, 13:58 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by cliffski
Quote:
Originally Posted by wafflesomd
There's no way they honestly think this is going to stop piracy.

I'll make sure to get all my friends to torrent it multiple times.


In doing so, you do way more to kill off PC gaming than infinity ward could possibly do.

You don't like this aspect of an upcoming game? Neither do I, but that entitles NEITHER of us to take the product for free.

If you REALLY think this ruins the game, why would you want to pirate it? Surely it is no longer worth playing?

I wouldn't even waste the electricity to have the PC on after midnight when I'm not capped to download something that's broken by the devs instead of cracked by a pirate. The petition and not giving the company money are enough.

However, if you've signed the petition don't forget to head over to Amazon and 1-star this port into oblivion - they might take notice when Amazon dumps the PC version game* and leaves it to the marketplace to sell it as they don't want the drama/returns hassle, like they did with Spore and Crysis Warhead (the latter undeserved, I'll give you that).

*postal strike notwithstanding
Veles 19th October 2009, 14:03 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by smc8788
You really have no idea what a dedicated server is, do you?

And here comes the PC gamer elitism
acron^ 19th October 2009, 14:07 Quote
Veles, don't bother mate. This thread is well and truely surrendered to the fan-boy trolls who refuse to see any opinion other than their own.
opal 19th October 2009, 14:08 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Veles
Quote:
Originally Posted by smc8788
You really have no idea what a dedicated server is, do you?

And here comes the PC gamer elitism

Quick because ignorance just walked out the door
[PUNK] crompers 19th October 2009, 14:15 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Veles
And here comes the PC gamer elitism

when you have entirely missed the point of the conversation i hardly think pointing that out can be considered elitism
OnyxLilninja 19th October 2009, 14:17 Quote
/me cancels order
yazooo 19th October 2009, 14:18 Quote
I would say it is more than just the fan boys having their say about this news - and to be honest am glad to see some gamers getting together to try and make their point about this. While some of it is a bit over the top, it is good to see consumers trying to make a difference instead of sitting back and taking it on the chin!

Oh, I really don't think it is PC Gamer elitism to know what a dedicated server is or who pays for them. To clarify simply, we pay for them. Usually clans, groups of people etc rent them from various places. They typically aren't just used for hosting one game either, and with a few people are not as expensive as you might imagine.
[PUNK] crompers 19th October 2009, 14:27 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by yazooo
Oh, I really don't think it is PC Gamer elitism to know what a dedicated server is or who pays for them. To clarify simply, we pay for them. Usually clans, groups of people etc rent them from various places. They typically aren't just used for hosting one game either, and with a few people are not as expensive as you might imagine.

exactly, i help to pay for my clan's server and i play L4D, TF2, CS:S, COD4 everything with the same group of people. if we want to do this in MW2 it'll involve setting up a "private" game and sending out 20 (if we get that many slots) invitations and not being able to use the boxes we pay for anyway! its just not what i wanted from the game. when i see people whinging about L4D2 or stardock or whatever i usually think "you're boring". but this has genuinely killed 80% of the reason to play MW2 for me.
rpsgc 19th October 2009, 14:30 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by acron^
Veles, don't bother mate. This thread is well and truely surrendered to the fan-boy trolls who refuse to see any opinion other than their own.

Pot, meet kettle, again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Veles
And here comes the PC gamer elitism

And here comes the console gamer ignorance?



If you're just here to flame then by all means, GTFO of my thread. We don't need flamers who do not contribute to the thread.
Veles 19th October 2009, 14:31 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by yazooo
To clarify simply, we pay for them. Usually clans, groups of people etc rent them from various places.

Hmm, lets look at the server lists for Battlefield 2...that's a lot of EA owned servers, yeah they're not paying for them.
acron^ 19th October 2009, 14:33 Quote
Does anyone else think that this reaction from the "PC Gaming Community" (read COD4 fanboys) is a bit knee-jerk? Where's the trust?
Quote:
Originally Posted by rpsgc

And here comes the console gamer ignorance?

If you're just here to flame then by all means, GTFO of my thread.

Are you f**king serious? Veles was playing PC games when you were in nappies. Take your bombastic, over-zealous bollocks out of our forum.
Delphium 19th October 2009, 14:34 Quote
Pre-order cancelled (as has the rest of our clan now), petition signed, now 55K and counting.
smc8788 19th October 2009, 14:42 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Veles
And here comes the PC gamer elitism

Elitism? WTF? I was simply pointing out that you clearly have no understanding of the issues involved here (i.e. IW doesn't pay for deidcated servers, yet they will be paying for IW.net, so it will be costing them more), so your comments on the subject are misguided.


Acron, there's a big difference between playing Devil's advocate and trolling, one which you don't quite seem to understand.

This is clearly a big deal to a lot of people, otherwise thousand upon thousands of people wouldn't be being so vociferous about it. If you don't care then that's fine, many people are happy to play using a matchmaking system, but the rest of us aren't going to take this lying down. The community has given a lot of support their games over the years and they wouldn't be where they are today if it wasn't for us, so the least they could do is show us a little respect. Like a true capitalist, you only seem to be thinking of this in terms of profits and statistics, when the issue goes much wider than that.

What other way is there to show our displeasure at their contempt for PC gamers than making a fuss and petitioning them? Should we all just be quiet and pretend we don't care?

Please, as always, if you don't have anything constructive to add on the subject (which doesn't include clamouring for the moral superiority soapbox by calling everyone else trolls while not understanding what we are even complaining about), then GTFO.
acron^ 19th October 2009, 14:50 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by smc8788

Acron, there's a big difference between playing Devil's advocate and trolling, one which you don't quite seem to understand.

If you're accusing me of trolling, I'd love to see some quotes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by smc8788
Like a true capitalist, you only seem to be thinking of this in terms of profits and statistics, when the issue goes much wider than that.

Firstly, there is a big difference between being a capitalist and appreciating things from a capitalist perspective. Rather ironically, I am a firm disbeliever in capitalism but considering you seem to know me so well, surely you should know that? You can't just start shouting about things that aren't convenient to you without looking at from every angle. Yes, IW's decisions are profit driven but guess what, the WORLD is profit driven. So I'm sure, as much as IW would LOVE to please their fans/customers to the bitter end, to turn their back on a profitable [or even sustainable] business model just doesn't make sense. Blame the banks. Blame the governments. But don't blame IW. Because trust me, nothing is more important to a developer than the respect and appreciation of the customer. Well second to keeping the business running, obviously.
Quote:
Originally Posted by smc8788

Please, as always, if you don't have anything constructive to add on the subject (which doesn't include clamouring for the moral superiority soapbox by calling everyone else trolls while not understanding what we are even complaining about), then GTFO.

If you can't see that constructive nature of "alternative opinions" then I think you're the one who should GTFO.
Stormwulf 19th October 2009, 14:52 Quote
Stuff prestige mode and awful matchmaking servers.... if i wanted a console version i'd have bought a console version.

+3 lost sales as i was going to buy it for the kids too.
DarkLord7854 19th October 2009, 14:55 Quote
Signed petition
Mentai 19th October 2009, 15:00 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by acron^
Veles, don't bother mate. This thread is well and truely surrendered to the fan-boy trolls who refuse to see any opinion other than their own.

Does anyone else think that this reaction from the "PC Gaming Community" (read COD4 fanboys) is a bit knee-jerk? Where's the trust?

First of all lumping everyone who disagrees with the removal of dedicated servers in PC multiplayer fps as fanboy trolls is a bit rich. If this works out for IW you can safely bet future games will follow, and like hell any PC gamer should bend over and take that.

And trust? Are you serious? This is from a publisher that actually aims to dilute the creative process of game making into a sequel making machine, and from a company that only ever advertises their product on the 360, they even have the special MW2 360 coming out. Regardless of that, the implementation of peer to peer matchmaking only makes the game unplayable with the internet of my region, so I don't care what details haven't been unveiled yet (they may still be able to save some semblance of community?).
Looking forward to the PR spin they'll be putting on this though.
Veles 19th October 2009, 15:02 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by smc8788
Elitism? WTF? I was simply pointing out that you clearly have no understanding of the issues involved here (i.e. IW doesn't pay for deidcated servers, yet they will be paying for IW.net, so it will be costing them more), so your comments on the subject are misguided.

And you were throwing away my comments because they didn't fit your narrow minded view of what a dedicated server is and insulting my intelligence at the same time. I know precisely what a dedicated server is, I know that many of them are paid for by clans and the like. But developers and publishers do pay for many dedicated servers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mentai
First of all lumping everyone who disagrees with the removal of dedicated servers in PC multiplayer fps as fanboy trolls is a bit rich. If this works out for IW you can safely bet future games will follow, and like hell any PC gamer should bend over and take that.

He wasn't lumping everyone in the same boat, but a lot of people are going into quite a rage.
yazooo 19th October 2009, 15:05 Quote
Yes lumping everyone who has an opinion on this as a fanboy is a bit presumptive...
opal 19th October 2009, 15:11 Quote
It's not exactly costly to host game servers. Put that against the cost of developing and maintaining a system for matchmaking and whatever else gets bundled in to support that and they will be more than likely spending alot more.You can get 4-6 32 slot servers for about £100 p/m or thereabouts and thats going with an external company. They also don't have to host servers themselves, there will be more than enough to meet demand if they allowed it
[PUNK] crompers 19th October 2009, 15:13 Quote
people are getting heated about it yes, from my point of view i was going to play this game extensively, probably over a couple of years so to realise i have to rethink my plans because IW are retarded is a bitter pill to swallow.
smc8788 19th October 2009, 15:13 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by acron^
But don't blame IW. Because trust me, nothing is more important to a developer than the respect and appreciation of the customer.

I would really like to believe that, but so far IW are giving me no reason to do so (not helped by the fact they straight up lied about this earlier). It's just been one bad news story after another with this game, and the end result is that I just don't think they care any more, especially when the game is this big and they can afford to not have to worry about the entire PC platform's sales. There's developers out there that would kill for this kind of exposure for their game, and would never even think about angering the community like this, but unfortunately it seems IW can get way with it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by acron^
If you can't see that constructive nature of "alternative opinions" then I think you're the one who should GTFO.

My apologies, that was a little harsh, I'm just a little pissed ATM, as you can probably tell :p

I do appreciate the other side of the story, but right now I can't see any good coming out of this. They should be pushing forward with new ideas and features, not removing them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Veles
And you were throwing away my comments because they didn't fit your narrow minded view of what a dedicated server is and insulting my intelligence at the same time. I know precisely what a dedicated server is, I know that many of them are paid for by clans and the like. But developers and publishers do pay for many dedicated servers.

That may be so, but I can't see how this new IW.net matchmaking system will be anything but more expensive for them, considering the entire multiplayer experience is wholly dependent on them.
acron^ 19th October 2009, 15:14 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by yazooo
Yes lumping everyone who has an opinion on this as a fanboy is a bit presumptive...

Except that's not what I said? Loads of people have posted their ill-feelings toward the process, myself included, in this thread, without offending and insulting anyone who dared defend the actions of IW or question the actions of the extremists. That comment was aimed at the handful that are running away with the thread and turning it into a troll pit. Look at rpsgc's comments. He's even taken ownership of this thread! Haha! It's laughable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by smc8788
I would really like to believe that, but so far IW are giving me no reason to do so (not helped by the fact they straight up lied about this earlier). It's just been one bad news story after another with this game, and the end result is that I just don't think they care any more, especially when the game is this big and they can afford to not have to worry about the entire PC platform's sales. There's developers out there that would kill for this kind of exposure for their game, and would never even think about angering the community like this, but unfortunately it seems IW can get way with it.

I totally agree with you mate. But everyone's hyped MW2 so, SO much...was it ever going to live up to our expectations in every, single way? That's not a justification of what IW have done but more a general observation. Believe, I'm pissed off too. But I'm not gonna start battering forum members and throwing my weight around because of it.
rpsgc 19th October 2009, 15:38 Quote
acron^, so far you've added nothing to the thread, all you did was flame, insult, name-calling and troll. You if have nothing constructive to add then shut up and let the parties interested discuss in peace.

Your posts have been reported. Tale your childish flaming elsewhere.

Quote:
Veles was playing PC games when you were in nappies.

Really? Then he was playing in his mother's womb because I'm actually older than him. Your trolling attempt has failed so hard it's not even funny.
knuck 19th October 2009, 15:42 Quote
I honestly don't think the sales on consoles for this kind of game are so much better than they are on the PC. When the game comes out the console players are way more eager to spend their money on the new flavor of the month and therefore lots of games are sold but the PC version has an advantage. PC games that are greatly anticipated for their multiplayer sell very well are not really victims of piracy because, well, a cracked game is useless if you want to play online. That's not it however. The advantage of a PC game is how long the players play it and how many new player they will bring to the game. Once a player is part of a community I would say it's usually for a minimum of a year and up to many many years whereas console players jump from one game to another because without any real competition, it gets old pretty quick

If we're lucky IW will realize this in a year or two when their sales on the PC will have been a third those of CoD4

We most likely won't be lucky however
-VK- 19th October 2009, 15:44 Quote
Fail.

/signed.
Bindibadgi 19th October 2009, 15:45 Quote
This whole "I'm older than you" crap is pathetic. Also, my dad can beat up all your dad's and I can do a back flip, so there.

How about we just wait until the game ACTUALLY LAUNCHES so we all make an opinion based on fact rather than a knee jerk worse than a caffeinated Parkinsons sufferer?
NethLyn 19th October 2009, 15:45 Quote
...in the meantime, signed the petition, 8 people signed after me in one single refresh, and the 1-stars at Amazon are up over 40 - the point's been made, the money's staying in my wallet, now the ball is back in IW's and Activision's court - Valve amended L4D's server browsing system in the end and then repaired what litte pre-sequel damage was done to sales with special offers for the doubters. We'll see if ActiBlizz bother to do the same.
RTT 19th October 2009, 15:46 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by rpsgc
acron^, so far you've added nothing to the thread, all you did was flame, insult, name-calling and troll. You if have nothing constructive to add then shut up and let the parties interested discuss in peace.

Your posts have been reported. Tale your childish flaming elsewhere.




Really? Then he was playing in his mother's womb because I'm actually older than him. Your trolling attempt has failed so hard it's not even funny.

So far you're the one causing the problem; if you continue you will be taking a holiday from the forums and you won't even have MW2 to entertain you while you're away.
lewchenko 19th October 2009, 15:50 Quote
Well this is disappointing.. I wanted to be able to surf for servers that may only be playing a certain game mode, and play with 'x' friends on the same server... doesnt look like this will be happening now.

So have put my money where my mouth is and cancelled my pre-order with Amazon, and signed the petition.
acron^ 19th October 2009, 15:53 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by lewchenko
Well this is disappointing.. I wanted to be able to surf for servers that may only be playing a certain game mode, and play with 'x' friends on the same server... doesnt look like this will be happening now.

Matchmaking will serve the purpose, if all you're looking for is what you've described. The hoo-haa is when it comes to server culture, custom maps and mods, in a nutshell. If you're not actively involved with these then you're not really going to miss out.
Veles 19th October 2009, 15:53 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by smc8788
That may be so, but I can't see how this new IW.net matchmaking system will be anything but more expensive for them, considering the entire multiplayer experience is wholly dependent on them.

It's not very expensive, doesn't require many servers at all, that's why gaming on PSN and XBL is mostly P2P.
knuck 19th October 2009, 16:02 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bindibadgi
This whole "I'm older than you" crap is pathetic. Also, my dad can beat up all your dad's and I can do a back flip, so there.

How about we just wait until the game ACTUALLY LAUNCHES so we all make an opinion based on fact rather than a knee jerk worse than a caffeinated Parkinsons sufferer?

yes the thread turned to crap but no we can't just wait for the game to launch. They said what it's going to be like, we hate it and we express our disapproval in hope of an acknowledgment
-VK- 19th October 2009, 16:08 Quote
I think we should get Joe's opinion. You never know, the single player might rock!
Zoon 19th October 2009, 16:19 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by [ZiiP] NaloaC
HAHA! Looks like DICE are cashing in on this :D

http://kotaku.com/5384290/dice-makes-hay-with-dedicated-server-controversy
In fairness though, the authorised hosts list is next to impossible to get on.

Thus you're left running unranked servers, unless you're Multiplay or Jolt, or a few companies that are suspiciously n00bish.

One of my closest friends runs one of the top 5 UK GSPs and since BF1941 he's been stonewalled for applying for ranked status.
Mentai 19th October 2009, 16:21 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by -VK-
I think we should get Joe's opinion. You never know, the single player might rock!

I'm sure the single player will be at least as good as MW1, pretty much the same with different set pieces, and about 6 hours. Which I will enjoy (well was going to), but for the extra asking price at retail you really need the multiplayer to give it some legs. Anyway, at this point the gameplay quality is out of the question since the developer is going out of their way to do a disservice to their customers.
knuck 19th October 2009, 16:22 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by -VK-
I think we should get Joe's opinion. You never know, the single player might rock!

I doubt Joe cares much. He's not the type of gamer that plays the same game over and over online just to become the best

I might not know him, but I have a hard time understanding how he could play so many different games if he had an online "addiction" to a game like I always had with UT and, to a lesser extent, CoD
-VK- 19th October 2009, 16:25 Quote
Arr, I'll have to make the sarcasm a lot heavier in my next post! ;D
Bindibadgi 19th October 2009, 16:26 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghys
yes the thread turned to crap but no we can't just wait for the game to launch. They said what it's going to be like, we hate it and we express our disapproval in hope of an acknowledgment

Yes but lets have some ****ing rationality here everyone. It could change, there's a month to go still. Simply cancel your pre-order and voice your concerns to the appropriate channels rather than venting it at each other. It's not like there's limited stock or it's the only game out there to play.
knuck 19th October 2009, 16:29 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bindibadgi
Yes but lets have some ****ing rationality here everyone. It could change, there's a month to go still. Simply cancel your pre-order and voice your concerns to the appropriate channels rather than venting it at each other. It's not like there's limited stock or it's the only game out there to play.

of course ! You know how it is though ... When was the last time you saw a bunch of frustrated men having a rational discussion ? :D
Quote:
Originally Posted by -VK-
Arr, I'll have to make the sarcasm a lot heavier in my next post! ;D

with or without sarcasm your post made sense, hence my reply :)
Mentai 19th October 2009, 16:31 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghys
Quote:
Originally Posted by -VK-
I think we should get Joe's opinion. You never know, the single player might rock!

I doubt Joe cares much. He's not the type of gamer that plays the same game over and over online just to become the best

I might not know him, but I have a hard time understanding how he could play so many different games if he had an online "addiction" to a game like I always had with UT and, to a lesser extent, CoD

Man, UT was the best /highfive
I wish that UT3 didn't suck, then I wouldn't have moved onto MW1 and wouldn't care so much about all this jazz.
Mentai 19th October 2009, 16:35 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by -VK-
Arr, I'll have to make the sarcasm a lot heavier in my next post! ;D

Lol I was wondering, but there was a possibility of optimism so I felt compelled to shoot it down :P
knuck 19th October 2009, 16:38 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mentai
Man, UT was the best /highfive
I wish that UT3 didn't suck, then I wouldn't have moved onto MW1 and wouldn't care so much about all this jazz.

I know man, I feel your pain

come on, let's get drunk
bogie170 19th October 2009, 16:42 Quote
Hitler Thinks Infinity Ward is Fascist!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPmWTpfbxI4
knuck 19th October 2009, 16:52 Quote
not the funniest but he does have great points
kornedbeefy 19th October 2009, 17:13 Quote
No LAN play? If so thats another 20 lost sales from our LAN group.
impar 19th October 2009, 17:21 Quote
Greetings!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghys
I honestly don't think the sales on consoles for this kind of game are so much better than they are on the PC.
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by -VK-
I think we should get Joe's opinion. You never know, the single player might rock!
If it is similar to the one in CoD4 and the price is 25€, might be worth to be bought and played. Otherwise, waiting for it to reach the bargain bin.
wafflesomd 19th October 2009, 17:47 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by cliffski
Quote:
Originally Posted by wafflesomd
There's no way they honestly think this is going to stop piracy.

I'll make sure to get all my friends to torrent it multiple times.


In doing so, you do way more to kill off PC gaming than infinity ward could possibly do.

You don't like this aspect of an upcoming game? Neither do I, but that entitles NEITHER of us to take the product for free.

If you REALLY think this ruins the game, why would you want to pirate it? Surely it is no longer worth playing?

It's not like anyone is going to anything about it. So who cares.

I was going to buy it, but whats the point.
Bindibadgi 19th October 2009, 17:53 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by wafflesomd
It's not like anyone is going to anything about it. So who cares.

But you perpetuate the situation and next time IF will just go "No PC version because 300% of players warezd it". Here's the stats to prove it.

Crytek claim that for every legit player online of Crysis, three more were playing with warezd versions. It also encourages them to lock it down with GFWL.
Bindibadgi 19th October 2009, 17:54 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghys
of course ! You know how it is though ... When was the last time you saw a bunch of frustrated men having a rational discussion ? :D

This is not a porn convention, it's a GAME.

Get a grip

/I'll get my coat.
AuDioFreaK39 19th October 2009, 18:00 Quote
"Bowling said that the up-side of IWNet though is that it allows Infinity Ward a lot more control over the community and the way players get updates. Won't help them roll out a demo though."

So they put in a socialist IW server and restrict the individual freedoms of the users. Do you guys not see a parallel here!?
13eightyfour 19th October 2009, 18:11 Quote
Cant really say as i was all that bothered about the game tbh. But i think what they're doing is disgusting really, and whilst kicking up a fuss probably wont achieve anything in this case it may serve as a warning in the future to anyone else who might think the idea is a good one.
Bindibadgi 19th October 2009, 18:21 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by AuDioFreaK39

So they put in a socialist IW server and restrict the individual freedoms of the users. Do you guys not see a parallel here!?

Socialist? What is this, 1965?

Should we check IF staff for little red books? :p:p:p
Hypno 19th October 2009, 18:22 Quote
They sure know how to piss on there fans which brought Call Of Duty. Glad i haven't ordered it to be honest I'll just borrow it from a mate when he's done with it. Surely it would be easier to keep dedicated servers but use steam to authenticate??
Hypno 19th October 2009, 18:24 Quote
Looks at Battlefield 2: Project Reality Mod and smiles.
cheeriokilla 19th October 2009, 18:46 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hypno
Looks at Battlefield 2: Project Reality Mod and smiles.

Looks at Battlefield 2: Forgotten Hope 2 Mod and smiles
Otis1337 19th October 2009, 19:03 Quote
Signed the petition, cancelled pre-order..
laters IW, back to CSS :(
Hypno 19th October 2009, 19:08 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheeriokilla
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hypno
Looks at Battlefield 2: Project Reality Mod and smiles.

Looks at Battlefield 2: Forgotten Hope 2 Mod and smiles

Oh yeah big smile now!
spectre456 19th October 2009, 19:36 Quote
I nearly gagged when i read about this news. Insta signed that petition. nothing has made me this upset gaming wise in a very very long time >:(.

What really upset me though was the fact that this system is just so they can put a price on their damn dlc which they are making now for release in January! Utter greed. At least Treyarch tried to release their dlc free for PC players...hell, they even threw in prestige; which cod4 didn't even have.

Also, does anyone else really hate 420? He's like the new cliffy b. i personally think he's the new tw** on the block.
Thedarkrage 19th October 2009, 20:11 Quote
there only doing this so to force us to pay for DLC like maps cus they know we wouldn't if we can make and mod maps are selves!

They want the 360 pay for everything system where every map and mod costs if you want the new camo its going to be 100 ms points new gun 500 ms points
Star*Dagger 19th October 2009, 20:13 Quote
As I have said several times, KEEP the people wearing the suits (yes the moron with the MBA) AWAY from any decision regarding PC Games.
Some moron in IW wanted to make a "new revolutionary, and money making way for people to play online". Moron-boy doesn't realize that this system is none of the above. Maybe he will if IW has the wisdom to fire him for G.W. Bush-level stupidity!
CardJoe 19th October 2009, 20:19 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Star*Dagger
As I have said several times, KEEP the people wearing the suits (yes the moron with the MBA) AWAY from any decision regarding PC Games.
Some moron in IW wanted to make a "new revolutionary, and money making way for people to play online". Moron-boy doesn't realize that this system is none of the above. Maybe he will if IW has the wisdom to fire him for G.W. Bush-level stupidity!

Yours in petitioning plasma?
VaLkyR-Assassin 19th October 2009, 21:04 Quote
"no LAN matches"

That really kills it for me as I play LAN matches alot with the other CoD games. Plus I have my favoured servers, and I often play at the same time as my mates, so how on earth would be able to join the same server if it just dishes it out any way it wants. Absolute rubbish decision.
ryall 19th October 2009, 21:48 Quote
Now watch as they blame poor PC sales on pirating...


I bought and loved COD4 so much that I was definitely going to buy MW2, despite the guest appearance of 50cents. However there's no way I'm going to be paying for this tripe now. I'm going to pirate the s**t out of this game.
October 19th October 2009, 21:52 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Centy-face

I have yet to speak to a single friend or person on a server who hasnt immediately cancelled their preorder or isnt going to pick it up now and I hope it bombs on the PC market charts because it would be a lesson well learned to other developers hoping to apply the same policy.

The way I think of it is easy the game is not coming out on PC it's coming out on Xbox twice.

LOL

Scenario: game A sells extremely well on Xbox and PS3, sells 2 copies on the PC.

Developer is most likely to
a) Spend millions making the next game exactly the way the smallest market share want it;
b) Cut their losses, drop the PC as a platform and roll around in their millions.

Boycotting/pirating will do nothing to help in this situation, and the lesson other devs WILL learn is that perhaps the PC isn't worth developing for.

Look what happened with Crytek, 3/4 piracy on Crysis and bang, solid gold PC only awesomeness gets farted round the consoles.
October 19th October 2009, 21:54 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryall
Now watch as they blame poor PC sales on pirating...


I bought and loved COD4 so much that I was definitely going to buy MW2, despite the guest appearance of 50cents. However there's no way I'm going to be paying for this tripe now. I'm going to pirate the s**t out of this game.

:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(

Well done, you've solved the problem. IW are definitely gonna treat the PC community as a serious consumer group next round...

:(:(
wafflesomd 19th October 2009, 22:01 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by October
:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(

Well done, you've solved the problem. IW are definitely gonna treat the PC community as a serious consumer group next round...

:(:(

They aren't treating us seriously already...

There probably won't be a next round for us.
Thedarkrage 19th October 2009, 22:12 Quote
Don't pirate the pc version help mod as many 360s as you can now don't tell me you don't know how its not hard and copy the 360 version for them that will piss iw off and microsoft win win as far as i can see
Akava 19th October 2009, 22:16 Quote
I really can't believe they have done this, its such a bad move. But I suppose at least they won't have to worry about PC users pirating it, because they won't want to play it...

I was umming and ahhing about it until about a week ago when I saw a few videos and decided it looked worth it, but now; what is the point, as I'm sure has been mentioned above, without LAN and being able to choose your own server the multi-player for this game is going to suck ass.
hrp8600 19th October 2009, 23:15 Quote
I want to play on the sever's and with the people I want .
I dont want to be forced to play with a bunch of noobtube, spam killing rant ,rant,rant..........
looks like COD4 servers will be running for a few more years.
I hope people pirate this game and give it away for free at school gates , markets and pubs.
as its now the only way I will play it now.
why break THE thing that made COD4 and online pc gaming.
idiots have forgot who put them where they are and that the customer is always right.
very sad day for all of us if they dont change there minds.
Elton 19th October 2009, 23:41 Quote
Rather don't pirate this at all, that would just encourage to do what they are already doing.

Rather just steal every single copy of the 360/PS3 version known to man?

Or use rationality and wait for the damned game to come out, then we'll make the final verdict.
acron^ 19th October 2009, 23:42 Quote
Reading this thread makes me ashamed to be a PC gamer.
DXR_13KE 19th October 2009, 23:47 Quote
Pirate this? I wont even occupy a bit of my hard drive space with this game...
knuck 20th October 2009, 00:28 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by acron^
Reading this thread makes me ashamed to be a PC gamer.
Quote:
XBL GamerTag: acron0


you're not :D

jk <3 :)
quake1-rules 20th October 2009, 05:21 Quote
Read a lot of comments here and one thing that is not mentioned or understood by many people is that dedicated servers are very important to keep multiplayer gameplay consistent and at a low ping. I play several MP FPS games and I have my favorite servers mostly because of the steady connection to the server (under 50ms ping) and also yes because of the mods (like project reality).

Even if everyone is only a cable or DSL connection, that's nothing compared to a dedicated server's backbone Internet connection. Dedicated servers are absolutely vital for twitch FPS games like MW1 and MW2. Also, IW is misleading us or that Bowling guy from IW doesn't even know that dedicated servers are not imcompatible with matchmaking. The two are not mutually exclusive. Dropping dedicated server from MW2 is unrelated, as I see it, from their matchmaking system.
Paddy4929 20th October 2009, 06:29 Quote
I find it unbelievable that they will release it without dedicated servers. I'm part of a clan who have been heaviley playing COD4 mainly on our own dedicated servers, playing matches against other clans in our private server. Our Dedi-box costing £100 a month will become redundant if no dedicated servers for MW2.
I will still buy MW2 in the hope that they will patch it to allow dedicated servers. Just stinks of Console porting and can't be arsed tweaking for PC.
AcidJiles 20th October 2009, 08:04 Quote
I don't ever normally pirate games, tv movies etc maybe but not games as you get value from them. But in this case I may pirate as protest for the stupidity of IW to play the single player.
B1GBUD 20th October 2009, 08:18 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Er-El

Matchmaking is actually one good thing I wish more PC multiplayer games had. I guess good thing come out of this as well bad. But charging for DLC and no mods!

You're kidding right? I can only understand one reason to support this and that's if the in game browser is sh!t. I for one won't be buying this game

If we're supposed to pay top dollar for this POS, then we should have the abiltity to host dedicated server. I for one hope to have a co-located server up and running soon and I would have run it... guess not now.

FAIL
acron^ 20th October 2009, 08:20 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcidJiles
I don't ever normally pirate games, tv movies etc maybe but not games as you get value from them. But in this case I may pirate as protest for the stupidity of IW to play the single player.

And, in the process, completely justify IW in their decision to downgrade PC support. Why can't people see this?

Lets break it down. If you...
  1. Pirate the game
    You will simply be validating IW's management decision. They've already bitched about the piracy figures on PC and removing dedicated servers in place of IWNet means that [generally speaking] pirates won't be able to play online. For some reasons, people seem to think that pirating MW2 to "teach IW a lesson" is going to ultimately have some kind of positive effect. Wrong. All you're doing is insuring that future CODs probably won't even make it onto PC.
  2. Refuse to play the game
    A natural consumer response and whilst probably not the best thing you could do, the action that most conscientious people will choose. However, this will also prove to IW that their PC ports are not profitable. Just another reason to pull the plug completely. But, of course, if you're not happy with the features of a game then you probably shouldn't play it - why would you want to?
  3. Buy the game but don't play online
    This might seem stupid at a glance, but a boycott of online play might pan out well. If PC sales are good yet IWNet player numbers are poor, and people are still complaining, then this will put pressure on IW to add dedicated server support as a patch. You're still getting the effect of legitimate protest but you still get to play the game to some degree with a view to eventually getting the online experience we all want, and we're not knee-capping the PC as a gaming platform in the process.

Thoughts?
outlawaol 20th October 2009, 08:53 Quote
Go HERE for Petition signing and to post on their fourms. At this writing they had over 86,000 signatures.

Show IW who their real audience is.
shigllgetcha 20th October 2009, 09:10 Quote
yeh pirate the game, give them a reason to drop the format alltogether
[USRF]Obiwan 20th October 2009, 09:41 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by acron^


Thoughts?


eh...

4) Pirates hack the game, put in cod4 dedicated mp source code. And everybody is happy.
acron^ 20th October 2009, 10:04 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by [USRF]Obiwan
eh...

4) Pirates hack the game, put in cod4 dedicated mp source code. And everybody is happy.

A) It's not that easy.

B) IW are not happy. You pirated their game. PC support is dropped.

Wanna try again?
MaverickWill 20th October 2009, 10:21 Quote
Who cares about the next one anyway? I'd be willing to bet the gameplay of the overhyped monstrosity would trigger a few choice swear-words.

Especially when IW decide you have to play it on the PC with a gamepad, at 720p resolution, with fixed graphics settings...
smc8788 20th October 2009, 10:46 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by acron^
Refuse to play the game
A natural consumer response and whilst probably not the best thing you could do, the action that most conscientious people will choose. However, this will also prove to IW that their PC ports are not profitable. Just another reason to pull the plug completely. But, of course, if you're not happy with the features of a game then you probably shouldn't play it - why would you want to?

While IW may somehow justify dropping PC support from low sales, even though I doubt they will be significantly lower than the would normally be, they must know know that poor sales of this game on PC will be a result, at least in part, of this decision.

As much as I don't want to see IW drop PC support, if all they're going to be releasing is neutered games like this at ever increasing pricetags then I wouldn't mind showing them out the door myself. I'm not going to go and buy half a game in the faint hope that the powers that be take pity on PC gamers, that would be the very definition of selling out.

People aren't necessarily refusing to buy the game out of protest, they're refusing to buy the game because it isn't up to the high standards they expect from a PC game, and lacks the crucial features that the ethos of PC gaming is based upon. This isn't just a blow to the whole community, it's a blow to the thousands of small communities that would be created because of this game, and the friendships that would be forged therein.
acron^ 20th October 2009, 11:26 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by smc8788
People aren't necessarily refusing to buy the game out of protest, they're refusing to buy the game because it isn't up to the high standards they expect from a PC game, and lacks the crucial features that the ethos of PC gaming is based upon. This isn't just a blow to the whole community, it's a blow to the thousands of small communities that would be created because of this game, and the friendships that would be forged therein.

You're very right there actually. And I do appreciate the damage this will do to community gaming, believe me. If Valve had done this to CS 1.6 I would personally have assassinated Gabe Newell. I'm not so much into the hardcore scene anymore but I understand COD4 has just as vociferous a following, so I can totally see why people are getting upset.
MaverickWill 20th October 2009, 11:46 Quote
The petition's past 90k signatures, and there's roughly 1 new sig every second. Oh, happy day, Activision.
Thedarkrage 20th October 2009, 11:55 Quote
i want to play mw2 and i will get the game :) but i will not play online until some one cracks or get around the server issues i love the fact there using steam that's good but if valve games let ppl use mods and custom content why are they forcing us to use the iw.net servers
MaverickWill 20th October 2009, 12:04 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thedarkrage
i want to play mw2 and i will get the game :) but i will not play online until some one cracks or get around the server issues i love the fact there using steam that's good but if valve games let ppl use mods and custom content why are they forcing us to use the iw.net servers

I'm still not grasping why people would buy half a game for full price, in the vain hope that the company behind it will add in the extra details later.
Let me ask you this - if a car dealership sold you a couple of decent cars that you liked, then you went back for your 3rd car, and they sold you one without an engine, and told you that was how you were getting your cars from now on, wouldn't you go to a different dealership?
will. 20th October 2009, 12:19 Quote
Oooh, a lot of anger in this thread...

I'm rubbish at multiplayer games as I don't have the time or patience to get good. Nor is it fun getting slaughtered by 14yr old's calling me noobfag or some such nonsense.

But I get the point.

Perhaps the one thing that will effect me is the occasional time I do want to play online, I won't be able to find a nice quiet server to go on with friends and avoid the masses...
Arnaud31 20th October 2009, 13:05 Quote
OMG after OFP2, MW2 dont have dedicated server....
PC multiplayers gamer is dead....:(
cjmUK 20th October 2009, 14:07 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by acron^
Does anyone else think that this reaction from the "PC Gaming Community" (read COD4 fanboys) is a bit knee-jerk? Where's the trust?.

You use the word 'fanboys' as an insult, yet ironically, it merely accentuates the issue. If, according to you, the CoD faithful are upset about this turn of events - surely this is an absolute disaster. If your entire core user-base disagrees with your decision, then it it can't be construed as anything other than a huge mistake.

All the claims of Piracy being the issue, CoD:MW still sold like hot-cakes. There was a huge number of pre-orders, and regardless of the estimates of piracy, the sales that the PC version made would have justified the development on it's own. If you factor in console sales, it was undoubtedly IW's biggest payday.

I'm not sure what the sales estimates for MW2 but I'd guessimate in excess of 2m units. I'm not sure what effect this boycott would have, but I'd reckon that more 75% of potential customers are displeased. If anywhere near that number refused to buy, it would be devastating for the devs.

Lets not pretend that we need IW/Activision more than they need us. There are plenty of other developers and plenty of other games.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bindibadgi
It could change, there's a month to go still.

Absolute tosh! In the last month before launch, they aren't going to design and introduce proper MP support. If they managed to wedge it in, in a patch before Christmas, it will be nothing more than hacked CoD4 code, which can't be good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by acron^
And, in the process, completely justify IW in their decision to downgrade PC support. Why can't people see this?

Because it is not true. The PC customer base is far too big ot be ignored. I'm sure IW would love for PC gamers to dumb down to consoles, but it isn't going to happen. So while there is a customer base, they will try to tap into it, before someone else does.
Quote:

[*]Buy the game but don't play online
This might seem stupid at a glance, but a boycott of online play might pan out well. If PC sales are good yet IWNet player numbers are poor, and people are still complaining, then this will put pressure on IW to add dedicated server support as a patch.
[/LIST]

Thoughts?

This logic is flawed. IW aren't concerned about whether people play the MP game; they are concerned solely about sales. While there are few idealists involved in PC gaming, almost all devs are centred on shipping units (though PC gaming is also used to push the technological boundaries in the same way that F1 does).

Buying the game and playing only SP (for the same 6hrs CoD4 took!) will be justification of IW's decision.

The only sensible option is to not buy the game, and buy someone else's game instead. Nothing will hurt IW/Activision more than giving money to Bioware, DICE, Valve or A.N.Other Studio. [Christ! Did you see that?! IW are even making DICE look virtuous!]
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaverickWill
I'm still not grasping why people would buy half a game for full price, in the vain hope that the company behind it will add in the extra details later.
Let me ask you this - if a car dealership sold you a couple of decent cars that you liked, then you went back for your 3rd car, and they sold you one without an engine, and told you that was how you were getting your cars from now on, wouldn't you go to a different dealership?

A fair analogy. Like you said, would you really buy the car in the hope that the dealership will see sense and retrofit an engine? Do you think that once the car has be paid for that the dealer will give a monkey's about you?

Clearly the solution is not to steal (pirate) the car, but to buy a better car from a better dealership.
Floyd 20th October 2009, 14:23 Quote
Just passed 95,000 signatures!
I doubt they are going to change it but atleast you can see how many people are pissed about this lol.
Leonidis~LWS~ 20th October 2009, 15:16 Quote
i see the future me thinks :) coming to a dedicatedCOD4 server soon......MODERNWAREFARE2 the MOD... watch this space...
hardcore gamers dont die they adapt thats why theres such a thing as multiplayer gaming in all forms the only ppl this will hurt is iw and activision unless your a single player gamer and most of them buy second hand games now days :)
YAK!>Incubus 20th October 2009, 15:56 Quote
As others have said, this petition probably won't have much affect on IW.

On the other hand, if it stops even one dev/publisher from going down this road it'll be worth it!


Read for a nice fuzzy feeling :-http://www.infinityward.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=126956
will. 20th October 2009, 15:56 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjmUK
Quote:
Originally Posted by bindi
Saying something along the lines of: There is still time, it could change...
Absolute tosh! In the last month before launch, they aren't going to design and introduce proper MP support. If they managed to wedge it in, in a patch before Christmas, it will be nothing more than hacked CoD4 code, which can't be good.

How do you know they haven't done it already and removed it. Adding it back in could be a case of a bit of copy+paste...

And even if it's not in there yet; it is the same engine and I'm willing to bet, the same menu interface, perhaps with a bit of a spring clean, but underneath it will be essentially the same. How much work could it really be for such a large developer?
cjmUK 20th October 2009, 16:58 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by will.
How do you know they haven't done it already and removed it. Adding it back in could be a case of a bit of copy+paste...

And even if it's not in there yet; it is the same engine and I'm willing to bet, the same menu interface, perhaps with a bit of a spring clean, but underneath it will be essentially the same. How much work could it really be for such a large developer?

We've speculated on the reasons for the omission, but clearly it wasn't done on a whim. Devs won't develop two competing systems and then arbitrarily omit one of them - they haven't the time for such luxuries/such follies.

There is certainly a possibility the CoD:MP net code code could be revived, but it still isn't a trivial task.

More pertinently, they would be setting a precedent of sorts with such a big U-turn; I don't think they would want to lose face. I think they will stick with their decision and be damned.
YAK!>Incubus 20th October 2009, 17:07 Quote
Just hit 100,000 signatures and rising!
Horizon 20th October 2009, 17:09 Quote
Somewhere in California:

IW dev1: Hey bro, what's up!
IW dev2: The PC crowd's getting all riled up again
IW dev1: Really? I didn't notice
IW dev2: They caught wind of dropping dedicated server support, paid DLC, and matchmaking.
IW dev1: So what are they gonna do sign a petition, boycott us?
Both: [laugh hysterically]
IW dev1: Seriously they don't get it, they're the minority. Console gaming is our baby now, I mean we can piss and **** all over those retards and they don't wince, whine or complain like proper bitches.
IW dev2: I know isn't reality awesome.
Baz 20th October 2009, 17:43 Quote
Just for the record, i'm still buying modern warfare 2, and am quite looking forward to seeing what IWnet will bring. Left 4 Dead manages with no dedicated servers or private matches, and from what I can understand, this will just be like that but with more players.

I've played COD4 on consoles and it wasn't too bad tbh - finding a game was easy and while it was (a) rubbish as it used a game pad and (b) full of racist, homophobic teenagers, that's just Xbox Live users in general.

Do I like dedicated servers? Yeah, they're OK. I'd understand Clans getting upset that they can't have a public server to call home, but for me I personally don't care as long I can play the game and pwn some newbs with my G3.

IWnet isn't the end of PC gaming, it's a necessary evolution. Piracy for COD4 took the piss, IW have told us this by publishing the piracy rates. If someone was stealing bit-tech's content (HI CHINA!) I'd sure as hell want to figure out a way to stop people reproducing it for free. IW are just trying to safe guard their game (although the high price tag does grate a little - exchange rate my arse).

In the end, I'll still buy and play MW2 online. The game is simply too good to ignore. If it means I have to change the way I play online a bit because too many people thieved the game, then so be it.
acron^ 20th October 2009, 17:56 Quote
@cjmUK,

It upsets me to see people say that developers only care about the sale, because it's not true. Publishers, perhaps, but no one goes into game development to make money. It's for the passion of doing it and the reward that comes with people playing and loving your game. If IW don't swing this around after more than 100,000 signatures then there are larger forces at work, I would almost guarantee it.
hugo60 20th October 2009, 18:12 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baz
Just for the record, i'm still buying modern warfare 2, and am quite looking forward to seeing what IWnet will bring. Left 4 Dead manages with no dedicated servers or private matches, and from what I can understand, this will just be like that but with more players.

I've played COD4 on consoles and it wasn't too bad tbh - finding a game was easy and while it was (a) rubbish as it used a game pad and (b) full of racist, homophobic teenagers, that's just Xbox Live users in general.

Do I like dedicated servers? Yeah, they're OK. I'd understand Clans getting upset that they can't have a public server to call home, but for me I personally don't care as long I can play the game and pwn some newbs with my G3.

IWnet isn't the end of PC gaming, it's a necessary evolution. Piracy for COD4 took the piss, IW have told us this by publishing the piracy rates. If someone was stealing bit-tech's content (HI CHINA!) I'd sure as hell want to figure out a way to stop people reproducing it for free. IW are just trying to safe guard their game (although the high price tag does grate a little - exchange rate my arse).

In the end, I'll still buy and play MW2 online. The game is simply too good to ignore. If it means I have to change the way I play online a bit because too many people thieved the game, then so be it.
Completely agree. I imagine a lot of people will go and buy the game shortly after release when they hear other people having fun on it who didn't rage and cancel their order. People will feel like they are missing out. It's still the same gameplay, so if you liked mw1 not buying it is just silly imo.
CardJoe 20th October 2009, 18:34 Quote
As I discussed with Harry the other day though, Activision hasn't unveiled any plans for what will be in IWNet though. He's likely correct in his assumptions of a chat, friends and invite systems for private matches - but there's still no confirmation that any of these important details will be integrated into IWNet. It could easily be less Steamworks and more Games For Windows Live.

As for Left 4 Dead - it has a huge number of Valve-made dedicated servers, plus the option for LANs and private matches. Again, IWNet isn't confirmed on any of these fronts and, while I trust IW as much as I trust Valve, I can't say I trust Activision the same as I trust Valve.
smc8788 20th October 2009, 18:43 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by CardJoe
As I discussed with Harry the other day though, Activision hasn't unveiled any plans for what will be in IWNet though. He's likely correct in his assumptions of a chat, friends and invite systems for private matches - but there's still no confirmation that any of these important details will be integrated into IWNet. It could easily be less Steamworks and more Games For Windows Live.

As for Left 4 Dead - it has a huge number of Valve-made dedicated servers, plus the option for LANs and private matches. Again, IWNet isn't confirmed on any of these fronts and, while I trust IW as much as I trust Valve, I can't say I trust Activision the same as I trust Valve.

Well, quite.

But even if they did have some features that would appease a lot of the dissenters (though for most people it's a make or break issue), doesn't it seem odd, and an almighty cock up on their part, that they didn't release that information at the same time as announcing there would be no dedicated servers.

Dedicated servers or no dedicated servers, I think their whole PR team needs to be shot, if they even have one that is.
dyzophoria 20th October 2009, 18:44 Quote
Quote:
Completely agree. I imagine a lot of people will go and buy the game shortly after release when they hear other people having fun on it who didn't rage and cancel their order. People will feel like they are missing out. It's still the same gameplay, so if you liked mw1 not buying it is just silly imo.

i wont be surprised as well if alot of people who said they cancelled their order actually didnt,lol

yeah dedicated servers are fun, same as baz, alot of clans will be pissed, but hey, if its actually good, I really dont care if I can't setup my own LAN game (im actually ok with the workaround on left4dead to enable LAN gaming, I wont be surprised if a similar work around will come around for MW2)

but its quite silly for pc gamers to go against console gamers and vice versa, its just not right,lol, hey we are all gamers here..
cgthomas 20th October 2009, 19:07 Quote
Well I agree somebody goes into a game dev job for passion, doing something you like. But....... any commercial company is driven by business people.
My assumption is: to retain teh CoD series and develop future ones, IW had to present Activision with a new innovative and lucrative business model. I assume they all liked the idea of IW.Net because it's already deplyed on the consoles and it may cut down piracy.
But online gaming on console platforms followed this system since day 1, not so for PC games. Cnsole users don't know any other system than the current. But for us it's a disaster, as we always had our dedicated servers and communities. That's why we opt for PC and we spend hundreds or thousands on SLI's, Water Cooling. Just to have the ultimate experience.
And to me a PC FPS without dedicated server support is like drinking decaf Cofee. Pretty pointless...................
wafflesomd 20th October 2009, 19:09 Quote
Lepermessiah 20th October 2009, 19:22 Quote
259 comments? LOL, get a life people, it's a game, not the Apocalypse, LMAO, gamers are all little drama queens.
EvilRusk 20th October 2009, 19:44 Quote
I made the mistake of buying Medal of Honor Airborne. It was a dire, buggy, boring chore to play single player. Nothing more than a terrible port of a console version. Multiplayer had worse graphics and ran like some kind of bizarre dial-up game. It disappeared shortly after.

MW2 looks like it is making the same mistake, but with the PS3 slim in time for Christmas and all those console players wanting a shooting game to go with it, I don't think they give a flying crap about PC gamers as that is not where the money is!
Rocket_Knight64 20th October 2009, 19:51 Quote
There is no facepalm in exsistance big enough to describe that response... or the interviewer and editors of that site... utterly gobsmacked...
impar 20th October 2009, 19:53 Quote
Greetings!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baz
Just for the record, i'm still buying modern warfare 2, and am quite looking forward to seeing what IWnet will bring. Left 4 Dead manages with no dedicated servers or private matches, and from what I can understand, this will just be like that but with more players.
Exactly. Thats why I dropped L4D and returned to TF2. It can take 30 minutes to get a proper server.
Skiddywinks 20th October 2009, 20:10 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lepermessiah
259 comments? LOL, get a life people, it's a game, not the Apocalypse, LMAO, gamers are all little drama queens.

People are upset that IW has essentially crippled a game they have loved and enjoyed, and on top of that are expected to pay more than they should for it. Obviously people are going to want to discuss it. You comment makes no sense and is actually quite hypocritical.

Frankly, I think the fact you are bothered that other people are upset about a company screwing them over indicates that you are the one that needs to get a life. Do you really have nothing better to do than insult people online because they care about something you don't?
cjmUK 20th October 2009, 20:30 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baz
Left 4 Dead manages with no dedicated servers or private matches, and from what I can understand, this will just be like that but with more players.

L4D limps by using dedicated servers. As soon as someone tries to run locally, the latency shoots up and everyone leaves. P2P L4D does not work at all.
Quote:
IWnet isn't the end of PC gaming, it's a necessary evolution. Piracy for COD4 took the piss, IW have told us this by publishing the piracy rates.

First of all, why should we trust their piracy estimates?

There is absolutely nothing about IWNet that is necessary, except from the fact that it tries to prevent piracy. L4D suffers through it's choice of p2p matching over dedicated servers, But TF2 (and any number of other Steam games) provide a dedicated server system that is resistant to piracy - you don't see Valve having to quote piracy rates, do you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by impar
Thats why I dropped L4D and returned to TF2. It can take 30 minutes to get a proper server.

QFT!
D-Cyph3r 20th October 2009, 20:31 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by impar
Greetings!

Exactly. Thats why I dropped L4D and returned to TF2. It can take 30 minutes to get a proper server.

Yep. I haven't played a pub game of L4D pretty much after the 1st week of purchase. I cant imagine how frustrating it'll be when you need a good 15-20+ players needed to get a game going.
Jipa 20th October 2009, 20:33 Quote
EPIC FAILURE.


That's both my 2 cents and all there is to it.

I really hope IW accidentally hires even a single person with any common sense and they drop this bullshit. I'm expecting the pirates to find a way around it anyway.... Somehow.
mrbungle 20th October 2009, 20:37 Quote
Sad but not a surprise.

Made a vow not to buy any of this console port crap and i am sticking to it.
impar 20th October 2009, 20:46 Quote
Greetings!

One of the reasons IW gives for the revolt:
Quote:
West takes a shot at the motives behind some of the outrage, noting that there's money to made by selling dedicated servers and adspace on them: "It's a little dubious. Some of the people complaining are complaining with their pocketbook."
cgthomas 20th October 2009, 20:49 Quote
I was really anticipating this ...... MW2 could've easily become one of the greatest PC experience in modern gaming history....alas.... all gone

Very sad....... I stuck with the series since day 1. Never liked the consoles multi player, but always knew I could go back to my PC and play in the server(s) I liked
smc8788 20th October 2009, 20:53 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by impar
Greetings!

One of the reasons IW gives for the revolt:

Yeah, I LOL'd at that too, I can't believe such a moronic statement came from an official source at IW.

More details of IWNET can be found here:

http://www.fourzerotwo.com/?p=745

Most of it just sounds like marketing guff and nothing we didn't already know. I've played the console version of CoD4 and it sounds like pretty much exactly the same system as that.

Still a far cry from dedicated servers :(
hrp8600 20th October 2009, 20:54 Quote
I pre ordered this which is rare for me.
Becouse I thought COD 4 online was great, main game was good but too short, IW were doing it and there was NO way this could fail.
Never knew I could be so wrong, how can you have the game of the year on your hands and then poo all over it and then rub your customers nose in it.
looks like you live and learn. last time I pre order any thing with out demo and glowing reviews.
AngusW 21st October 2009, 02:45 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baz
Just for the record, i'm still buying modern warfare 2, and am quite looking forward to seeing what IWnet will bring. Left 4 Dead manages with no dedicated servers or private matches, and from what I can understand, this will just be like that but with more players.

I've played COD4 on consoles and it wasn't too bad tbh - finding a game was easy and while it was (a) rubbish as it used a game pad and (b) full of racist, homophobic teenagers, that's just Xbox Live users in general.

Do I like dedicated servers? Yeah, they're OK. I'd understand Clans getting upset that they can't have a public server to call home, but for me I personally don't care as long I can play the game and pwn some newbs with my G3.

IWnet isn't the end of PC gaming, it's a necessary evolution. Piracy for COD4 took the piss, IW have told us this by publishing the piracy rates. If someone was stealing bit-tech's content (HI CHINA!) I'd sure as hell want to figure out a way to stop people reproducing it for free. IW are just trying to safe guard their game (although the high price tag does grate a little - exchange rate my arse).

In the end, I'll still buy and play MW2 online. The game is simply too good to ignore. If it means I have to change the way I play online a bit because too many people thieved the game, then so be it.
This. Except i don't intend to purchase until i hear how this "IWnet" is. If its rubbish i won't bother, simple as. I still don't see the point in removing dedicated servers though they could have easily been left in.
Horizon 21st October 2009, 04:10 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by impar
Greetings!

Exactly. Thats why I dropped L4D and returned to TF2. It can take 30 minutes to get a proper server.

L4D always had dedicated servers, but you couldn't pick because matchmaking did it for you. It's pretty much fixed now.
wafflesomd 21st October 2009, 04:31 Quote
Too bad they put that melee timer in the game.

That killed it for me.
Mentai 21st October 2009, 04:50 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by wafflesomd
Too bad they put that melee timer in the game.

That killed it for me.

Wow, seriously? I guess it does make it more difficult, but as someone who played competitively in vs that was a Godsend, survivors had a major advantage when they could melee spam and it was quite frustrating. Now all they need to do is import the spitter from L4D2 so that the survivors can't bunch up and camp one spot and it will be nice and balanced... after a year. Sigh. I might just end up picking up L4D2 anyway now that MW2 is crossed off my list of potential purchases. That 4 pack is damn cheap, especially compared to MW2.
AcidJiles 21st October 2009, 05:15 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baz
Just for the record, i'm still buying modern warfare 2, and am quite looking forward to seeing what IWnet will bring. Left 4 Dead manages with no dedicated servers or private matches, and from what I can understand, this will just be like that but with more players.

I've played COD4 on consoles and it wasn't too bad tbh - finding a game was easy and while it was (a) rubbish as it used a game pad and (b) full of racist, homophobic teenagers, that's just Xbox Live users in general.

Do I like dedicated servers? Yeah, they're OK. I'd understand Clans getting upset that they can't have a public server to call home, but for me I personally don't care as long I can play the game and pwn some newbs with my G3.

IWnet isn't the end of PC gaming, it's a necessary evolution. Piracy for COD4 took the piss, IW have told us this by publishing the piracy rates. If someone was stealing bit-tech's content (HI CHINA!) I'd sure as hell want to figure out a way to stop people reproducing it for free. IW are just trying to safe guard their game (although the high price tag does grate a little - exchange rate my arse).

In the end, I'll still buy and play MW2 online. The game is simply too good to ignore. If it means I have to change the way I play online a bit because too many people thieved the game, then so be it.

I have never seen proof that piracy actually dents sales significantly. Many people who pirate wouldnt actually by the product in the first place as they dont have the money, especially when it comes to China (which I am travelling in currently) (every internet cafe has maybe 50 games on every pc all pirated but if they were not pirated they would not be there as they dont make enough to pay for them. Its only 20-50 cents an hour.) so these arent lost sales. So numbers of people who have pirated times cost of product does not equal lost revenue and companies need to get it into their thick skulls that this is not the case.
Jipa 21st October 2009, 07:11 Quote
Whoops wtf. Wrong thread?
1ad7 21st October 2009, 08:54 Quote
We are ****ing gamers not drama queens. Im sure when Mary Kay stopped carrying your favorite color eyeshadow you stopped doing so much drag. (damn just noticed his ass got banned)

Any ways this is a blatant attack on pc gaming, the dedicated servers I could almost accept but bundle that with no LAN and it is apparent they are trying to force us to buy on consoles. I was going to buy it on PC and PS3 but both of those pre-orders are now canceled and I will make everyone I know aware as to why.
cjmUK 21st October 2009, 09:25 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horizon
L4D always had dedicated servers, but you couldn't pick because matchmaking did it for you. It's pretty much fixed now.

Matchmaking on L4D got progressively worse as more people started playing on a finite pool of dedicated servers. Because P2P L4D was pretty much unusable, you'd spend 20mins in the lobby trying to get a respectable server. Quite why there weren't enough dedicated servers is a matter for some debate, but clearly these servers were essential.
Thedarkrage 21st October 2009, 09:36 Quote
LeMaltor 21st October 2009, 09:43 Quote
It's not like dedicated servers don't work, this will be epic fail.
Wags 21st October 2009, 10:13 Quote
All our clan have cancelled their pre-orders. :(

Just waiting for a new game now...Hopefully BF:Bad Company 2 will do the trick (DICE will certainly do well out of this debacle and are making the right noises)!;)
BradShort 21st October 2009, 10:31 Quote
I wonder what the Server Host companies feel about this !!! :o
adam_bagpuss 21st October 2009, 10:44 Quote
The big issue that is annyoing me is ping. at the end of the day it does not matter how good this service is if its based on private hosting it will fail ALWAYS.

Not many people have a good enough internet connection to host a game consisting of 32 players hell even 16. Its not the download thats the problem as alot of gamers have 8mb+ but..... upload is horrible on almost every single broadband service usually with less than 1mb. This cannot deal with a huge volume of players on some guys PC.

are we confined to 3v3 matches ????? so we can have decent ping.

plus the guy who is hosting will always have a big advantage by having 0 ping
Enemyvirus 21st October 2009, 15:13 Quote
Having played in a number of clans over the years (CS & Medal of Honor), the loss of dedicated servers for one of the most eagerly anticipated games of the last couple of years is a real shame. Unfortunately not really a huge surprise. The FPS PC game (created specifically for) is disappearing over the horizon. This now a console format game type. All the big developers now will develop these type of games for console play, that will then be ported to PC. Companies don’t even attempt to hide the fact any more (option screens with gamepad set-up as default)

It’s simple economics, IW will sell 10x more console units than PC units. Computer Gaming is now a multibillion dollar industry, the man in the suit is in control. It’s all about the bottom line and dividends for their stock holders.

I may be a bit over dramatic but its the end of a era for PC gaming. The strange thing is that we will moan about it but we will change.

We PC gamers are nothing if not adaptable.
Overlord 21st October 2009, 16:55 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enemyvirus
Having played in a number of clans over the years (CS & Medal of Honor), the loss of dedicated servers for one of the most eagerly anticipated games of the last couple of years is a real shame. Unfortunately not really a huge surprise. The FPS PC game (created specifically for) is disappearing over the horizon. This now a console format game type. All the big developers now will develop these type of games for console play, that will then be ported to PC. Companies don’t even attempt to hide the fact any more (option screens with gamepad set-up as default)

It’s simple economics, IW will sell 10x more console units than PC units. Computer Gaming is now a multibillion dollar industry, the man in the suit is in control. It’s all about the bottom line and dividends for their stock holders.

I may be a bit over dramatic but its the end of a era for PC gaming. The strange thing is that we will moan about it but we will change.

We PC gamers are nothing if not adaptable.

Im sure the men in suits are salivating at the prospect of a wow in console format. There will be a lot of angry people out there; server hosts and hardware companies that were depending on mw2 for hardware sales I feel more sorry for them tbh they depend on the money for a living.

Let IW do what they want they used us (the PC) go get to where they want, there was life before IW came along and much better games tbh.
YAK!>Incubus 21st October 2009, 23:13 Quote
knuck 21st October 2009, 23:56 Quote
no because they don't care about games that were released over a year ago ... all they want is to sell their new game
stonedsurd 22nd October 2009, 01:22 Quote
Quote:

by nickozor Tuesday, October 20, 2009 at 12:42 PM
Talk about spitting in the community's face. (comment from jackal on joystiq.com) "Privately owned servers ensure that, when IW's gets yanked offline for maintenance or goes down because they can't handle the player load they've been given, people can still play the game online. This is why some of the most touted exclusives for the Xbox 360 and PS3 were unplayable online for days (or even weeks) after they were launched. IW and Activision both know this, so their decision to remove a feature just to "streamline" online connectivity in a market that had online multiplayer years before any console did (and did just fine) is simply an anti-consumer act that is nigh retarded. Completely removing mod support from a PC title is, also, an act of unfathomable stupidity. PC games are often bought because they provide the consumer with an opportunity to create their own content in an environment where they don't have the money or technical expertise to do otherwise.

Counter Strike started off as a Half-life mod; it is still one the most played games online for any platform despite having been released a decade ago. Team Fortess? It's Quake mod that's had infinity longer legs (and arguable more success) than the very game it was spawned from. The PC port of RE4 looked worse than the PS2 version did when it was released; because of the community, updates were made to the game that not only allow it to easily compete with most current gen titles, but fixed the well documented control issues and even provided others (I'm sure you can now use a Wiimote for the PC version). We could delve into the countless weapons, characters, custom maps, custom levels, and total conversions that the modding community have made. These are all things the console ecosystem often does not provide (sometimes for copyright issues, sometimes to wring money out of wallets in order to sell you things the community could've created in a day) and it's always been a major factor in purchasing a game for one platform over another. Which, I'm sure, is why they killed MW2's modding community before it had a chance to begin; they now have the opportunity to sell us 3 maps at the low price of $10 and there's no way for us to compete with them. With IW pulling the feature from one of the year's most advertised and anticipated games in order to hock **** to us we would've made on our own, they risk giving other developer a precedent to do the same for future titles. ::claps:: Way to piss on the fans that made you a top developer, Infinity Ward. To do all of that while charging us $60 for a game that offers substantially less than its $50 predecessor did while forcing us to use Steam so our games can't be resold after they're played and then to completely hack out any feature that would've made the game desirable to a PC gamer in the first g*ddamn place...well...there's just no point in playing or owning the PC version even if it does look and perform better. To all Infinity Ward and Activision employees (which I'm sure is none) who read this site, I have the following kind words for your consideration. Go **** yourselves, your games, and I hope to see all of your future endeavors flop horrifically.

We made you (Infinity Ward) what you are today and you ******** can't even make a clean stab to our backs as a token of appreciation; no, you've got to twist the blade slightly so we actually feel the pain. Your FPS is one of many available to a platform that spawned and still dominates the genre; no matter how anticipated, no matter how advertised, you're just one fish in a sea of many. I hope Activision runs you and your franchise into the ground just like they have to every one of their pet developers; at this point in time, you don't deserve anything else."
[ZiiP] NaloaC 22nd October 2009, 10:46 Quote
This was my response to a Gamespy article (should stop visiting that site, the quality has gone to the dogs in terms of articles).

For me, it's not an issue of mods and 'tweaking' the game, it's a matter of having a reliable server that I can connect to, knowing that my community maintains it flawlessly and have players of varying skill, ranks, play methods and approaches, but ultimately play in a fair and enjoyable manner. Removing this from the game has essentially removed the heart from online PC gaming. Dedi's are what make online gaming for the PC so damn reliable and fun. ZiiP had a CoD4 server for a year and a half and we constantly had solid traffic with little or no hassle and people who like our rules, stayed and many eventually became members. People who loved bunny-hopping and could not see the relavance of being allowed all the perks, usually left after 1 or 2 rounds. We closed that server and have been focusing on other systems for a brief time due to a lull in the gaming recently. We had been psyching ourselves up for this release and had been prepping our forum and advertising accordingly. Now, with these releases from IW, that has all been for naught.

Without the ability to moderate our own servers that accomodate those players who enjoy playing the game in a fair and balanced manner, there is no point in playing this game online.

IW's response to the petition and uproar that has been so justly made by the PC gaming community have been petulent and disregarding of the principles behind the userbase that started their company.

The responses do not address any of the issues, only using rhetoric and slogans that do nothing to quash the concerns raised by us.

From my own perspective, it is a complete breakdown in the support of PC gaming and as such, I can only hope that IW sales, or lack thereof, for the PC ulimately ruins them in some form
acron^ 22nd October 2009, 15:49 Quote
QQ
WolfandAngel 22nd October 2009, 20:22 Quote
Just created a group plz join
WE WANT Dedicated servers in cod 6
wafflesomd 22nd October 2009, 20:33 Quote
I don't want CoD6
shigllgetcha 22nd October 2009, 20:36 Quote
thats abit defeatist.

maybe they could give you an option
knuck 22nd October 2009, 21:21 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by acron^
QQ

okay you're annoying now. I could understand you were fed up with the bitching but you're doing the same yourself now. Just leave already
steleet 23rd October 2009, 05:07 Quote
No servers make bunny sad.
acron^ 23rd October 2009, 10:33 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghys
okay you're annoying now. I could understand you were fed up with the bitching but you're doing the same yourself now. Just leave already

Oh, shut up. This thread is a farce. Hundreds of posts saying exactly the same thing, just worded slightly differently in each case. Hundreds of posts demonstrating little to no grasp of economic cycle or the game development process. Hundreds of posts, I would bet, by people who don't really understand what this means for PC gaming but everyone seems angry for some reason so lets post in agreement and sign the petition.

If only I could think of a subtely witty way of slagging off Infinity Ward whilst informing you that I have cancelled my pre-order for MW2 (as if you give a sh*t about my pre-order status). Would that appease you? Well, bugger that. I like Infinity Ward. I like the games they make and I fully intend on keeping my pre-order (on PC, before anyone starts) so when it's released myself and a handful of other open-minded people who haven't been swept up in this ridiculous parade will be having a bloody riot playing MW2 online. Then we'll all probably add each other to our friends lists thingy-ma-bob, form a clan, and one day kick the sh*t out of your clan on a private game that we arranged, on a map we decided on and set up using the IWNet system which, by this time, everyone will have decided isn't really that bad at all. Because lets be honest, all this rhetoric, all this whining is hot air. You might well have cancelled your pre-order but all it takes is one of your mates to fold and buy it and then suddenly he's persuading you to buy it and then you're persuading some one else etc etc. This "boycott" will not hold. Why not? Because we're gamers and when there's a good game out there, WE want to play it.

Christ. I feel like Nick Griffin.
Thedarkrage 23rd October 2009, 10:45 Quote
Look i cant really say your wrong acron^ you may well love iw.net and the match making.

but for me its the mods and custom severs that i will miss. The chance to play the game how i want with the maps i like iw.net takes that away from me that is why i don't like it and probably the reason most ppl don't like it. We all know that thay want to make money its the job to make money but it smells like DLC is there only concern something they plan on getting us to pay for i bet! but i don't mind being proved wrong and i haven't canceled my pre-order i didn't pre order so there
acron^ 23rd October 2009, 10:52 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thedarkrage
Look i cant really say your wrong acron^ you may well love iw.net and the match making.

but for me its the mods and custom severs that i will miss. The chance to play the game how i want with the maps i like iw.net takes that away from me that is why i don't like it and probably the reason most ppl don't like it. We all know that thay want to make money its the job to make money but it smells like DLC is there only concern something they plan on getting us to pay for i bet! but i don't mind being proved wrong and i haven't canceled my pre-order i didn't pre order so there

I don't love IWNet. I've not used it. And it's not really a case of supporting the decision that IW have made, more the case of just accepting it and not letting a shitty decision completely destroy a game experience for me. I intend to make the most of it and do the best I can. One positive, if it's worth anything at all, I think, is that this will increase mainstream competetive gameplay. If IWNet has in-built support for clans then this means a lot of extra 'stuff' that clans usually need - website, forums, irc - can be circumvented and we can get on with just playing. Many a time I've been in that situation where the clan's ready to practice and it's "oh crap, server's down?! wtf?" or "bop's changed the fkin password. wtf..." or we simply don't have a clan server. I won't miss that headache.
Mr Happy 23rd October 2009, 10:59 Quote
Well i also am pi**ed off at this server business, but i must admit i am still going to buy this game, for both SP and MP, ill just have to wait and see what MP turns out like:D

Im not supporting IW daft actions, but they are going to do what there going to do with the servers regardless of what we say or moan about, it is a shame but lets see what the future brings ;)
Thedarkrage 23rd October 2009, 12:42 Quote
it would just be so easy to let us have both and i can see the benefits of iw.net it uses steam i should be able to find my friends very easily but i still want the custom mods and maps and if l4d can do that why not MW2?
[ZiiP] NaloaC 23rd October 2009, 14:40 Quote
Thankfully I won a copy of the game, so the SP side is free as far as I am concerned. I will, needless to say, use the MP section and see if it is as bad as it has been made out to be and I can only hope that it makes us all look like fools for douting them.

My earlier comment to which Acron oh so eloquently responded to with "QQ" was about the my opinions in regard to Dedicated servers in general and my opinion on what their removal will mean for me and my community.

Time will tell, but I am glad I don't have to spend money on it.
cjmUK 23rd October 2009, 16:05 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by acron^
Oh, shut up. This thread is a farce.

[rant snipped]

It is all a question of whether you want to dictate the direction of of future gaming or whether you are happy to be served whatever the devs choose to.

You're a self-confessed IW fanboy and seem happy to let them dictate what you will play in the future. It's your choice and there is nothing wrong with that.

However, many of us lend our allegiance, not to a company, but to one or more games types of a particular style or quality. In this case, we are mainly fans of the traditional PC-style FPS (with a strong MP element), of which CoD4 was a good example. IW are trying to homogenise this franchise for obvious reasons, but in doing so they are removing some of the elements that make PC gaming so much better than console gaming. We don't want that - so we are trying to change this situation. Given the current attitude of IW, I doubt petitions will have *any* effect. But a boycott of the game will have. You can argue about the relative share of the PC market, but the loss of a million sales will get a reaction from any publisher.

When coke disasterously changed their recipe all those years ago, the buyers voted with their feet. The recipe was changed back and the brand quickly recovered.

If we follow you and the other sheep who mindlessly follow IWs lead, there will be no change. If we take action, IW probably still wont budge, but already we've seen DICE and others promise not to make the same mistakes - thus we're protecting future PC gaming. When sales of the CoD franchise stutter and sales of Battlefield and others continue to thrive, I'm confident IW will change their mind - assuming Activision give them another chance.
Quote:
Christ. I feel like Nick Griffin.

Too many gags, too little time.
knuck 23rd October 2009, 20:34 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by acron^
Oh, shut up. This thread is a farce. Hundreds of posts saying exactly the same thing, just worded slightly differently in each case. Hundreds of posts demonstrating little to no grasp of economic cycle or the game development process. Hundreds of posts, I would bet, by people who don't really understand what this means for PC gaming but everyone seems angry for some reason so lets post in agreement and sign the petition.

If only I could think of a subtely witty way of slagging off Infinity Ward whilst informing you that I have cancelled my pre-order for MW2 (as if you give a sh*t about my pre-order status). Would that appease you? Well, bugger that. I like Infinity Ward. I like the games they make and I fully intend on keeping my pre-order (on PC, before anyone starts) so when it's released myself and a handful of other open-minded people who haven't been swept up in this ridiculous parade will be having a bloody riot playing MW2 online. Then we'll all probably add each other to our friends lists thingy-ma-bob, form a clan, and one day kick the sh*t out of your clan on a private game that we arranged, on a map we decided on and set up using the IWNet system which, by this time, everyone will have decided isn't really that bad at all. Because lets be honest, all this rhetoric, all this whining is hot air. You might well have cancelled your pre-order but all it takes is one of your mates to fold and buy it and then suddenly he's persuading you to buy it and then you're persuading some one else etc etc. This "boycott" will not hold. Why not? Because we're gamers and when there's a good game out there, WE want to play it.

Christ. I feel like Nick Griffin.

yup, you're absolutely right. You were also annoying because all you tried was to get a reaction from people by annoying them, which obviously worked

I'm not sure I will get the game however ...
Bufo802 24th October 2009, 15:41 Quote
Amazon have now taken down user reviews of mw2 after they were all telling people not to buy it....
Montyburns 24th October 2009, 19:15 Quote
Hey all,

I dont post a lot here, but this whole debacle has made me want to chime in with my 2 cents. I say this as someone who's been gaming online only since about 2001, and who's never modded anything in his life, or been in a clan.

After letting the news and discussion rattle around my head for the last few days, I think I've worked out what my main problem with it is.

See, I've been gaming a bit on this entirely-unpleasant-outside Saturday, a bit of 42 player Desert Combat, then about an hour trying to find a decent opponent on PES2009, and the differences in experience between 'dedicated V listen' servers was like espresso v instant coffee: one only vaguely resembles the real thing .

For those that may not know, Pro Evo uses some form of match making + local hosting arrangment, which makes the experience entirely dependant on the participants internet connections.

However, with DC, it was straight in, no twatting about, and I was gaming in the amount of time it took my rig to load the level. But with PES, i honestly didnt get a decent game.

So, we've got a 7 year old game beating a 1 year old (plus about 2 days, if being a pedant is your thing...)game for online experience, entirely because of the way multiplayer was handled.

Now, if we assume, as I'm sure most people will, that the dedicated server way of doing things is clearly the better option, then that means Infinity Ward is full of ****. The PR nonsense coming out about experience, and ease of access to non-hardcore (whatever the fu** that means) gamers, and basically everything they've said, is essentially lies. And they, as gamers/devs/people know it as well.

Not one PC gamer is ever going to swallow any of it, how could we, knowing that what they're suggesting only takes away from what we're used to, the opposite of improving the experience or 'making things easier'. Also, we know that there's no reason that, if their intention was actually to improve things, then they could easily include both methods.

And, even if we give them the benefit of the doubt, and IW.net works as well or better than we all expect it's going to, then at the most, what we'll have is something equivalent to what we've got now. Sweet FA will have been improved.

No, the reason for the change, is so they can sell us ****, **** that we probably dont want. "Ooooh, three maps for only £10???!! Really? Wow, sign me up..". I think not.

So, basically I think what pissed me off the most is, IW think PC gamers are ****wits, and we wont see this bullsh!t play for what it is; an excersise in money grabbing and bad PR. **** em, and their game, because I'm not going to be buying it.

Cheers

PS, the screen shot above is funny as... :)
smc8788 24th October 2009, 19:28 Quote
To be fair though, the matchmaking system on PES is quite possibly the worst example known to man, so it's not the fairest of comparisons.
Paddy4929 24th October 2009, 19:54 Quote
I am gutted about no dedicated servers, I really hope they bring out dedicated server suppport in a patch. Otherwise the MP will be ruined.
knuck 24th October 2009, 21:52 Quote
I wonder if the devs at IW are pissed off or if they totally agree with this decision. I can't imagine a hardcore PC gamer developing game and thinking that this is the way of the future; to give everything to noobs and not care about those who actually paid us for the past 7 years

anyways I guess i'll just keep on playing UT2k4 longer :D
BradShort 29th October 2009, 12:42 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by smc8788
To be fair though, the matchmaking system on PES is quite possibly the worst example known to man, so it's not the fairest of comparisons.

here here. . Konami have been ruining Multiplayer experiences since 2006. . .
AcidJiles 31st October 2009, 07:39 Quote
170000 Signatures so far. Which equates to revenue of $12000000 total so presume what 50% to the publisher and developer then for 6 million USD I hope they take notice.
shigllgetcha 31st October 2009, 14:06 Quote
theyre charging $70 dollars for the pc version these days?

thats presuming that everyone that signs the petition doesnt buy the game, which i think is a long stretch

and that none of those people hadnt planned to download it for free illegally.
Furymouse 31st October 2009, 16:46 Quote
I wasn't planning on buying it anyways so its not such a big deal here personally. However, when more devs/publishers start following this business model, we will be ever so screwed.
kingred 31st October 2009, 18:03 Quote
everyone pirate it, then give it bad reviews on amazon.
Ending Credits 31st October 2009, 18:10 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunsmith
this came my way earlier, i did lol

http://screenshot.xfire.com/screenshot/natural/44922460ca0e4c67b9846c049a929eb4d2e54208.png

I've got a couple of CoD4 severs (long story) I should help! :p
cjmUK 1st November 2009, 16:50 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingred
everyone pirate it, then give it bad reviews on amazon.

If you pirate it, you will just make things worse.

Right or wrong, pirating will tell them that a) their design choices are fundamentally correct (i.e. the software, as is, is how gamers like it), and that b) PC Piracy is the only problem.

Oh, and piracy is still akin to stealing...(no matter how w*nk the developers are).
Kovoet 1st November 2009, 19:20 Quote
They have peeved me off with this kak. We build computers around these games as well if we all honest.

They are now taking the fun away from PC gaming. For me this will be the make or break for PC gaming, oh I know %99 will disagree with but I am peeved off enough with this.
smc8788 1st November 2009, 21:05 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingred
everyone pirate it, then give it bad reviews on amazon.

I think we have a winner for the most retarded comment of the week.

If a car manufacturer removed the steering wheel from one of their models would you steal it, or go and buy another car? If a band released an album you didn't like, would you pirate it or buy a different one?

I seriously worry about people's sanity when they think that pirating is the answer to all of their problems.
wafflesomd 2nd November 2009, 01:38 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by smc8788
I think we have a winner for the most retarded comment of the week.

If a car manufacturer removed the steering wheel from one of their models would you steal it, or go and buy another car? If a band released an album you didn't like, would you pirate it or buy a different one?

I seriously worry about people's sanity when they think that pirating is the answer to all of their problems.

Stealing a copy of a game isn't the same as removing physical property. Does no one realize this?
smc8788 2nd November 2009, 02:01 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by wafflesomd
Stealing a copy of a game isn't the same as removing physical property. Does no one realize this?

Wait, hold the award ceremony - we have a new entry!

Just because games are also available in digital form doesn't make it any different from taking a copy of the game off a shelf in a store. Stealing is stealing; it's still someone's intellectual property that they own the rights to, something that a lot of people have invested hundreds of hours of their lives in creating. Who or what gives you the right to say it's OK to take ownership of their work without paying for it?
October 2nd November 2009, 02:29 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by wafflesomd
Stealing a copy of a game isn't the same as removing physical property. Does no one realize this?

This is what is wrong with PC gaming atm. At least Devs know when they make something for a console everyone who plays it will have paid for it, or at least the significant majority will have.

Then we have idiots like this ^^ who are the reason there will be very few PC optimized games in five or ten years time
wafflesomd 2nd November 2009, 03:26 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by smc8788
Who or what gives you the right to say it's OK to take ownership of their work without paying for it?

Not exactly sure where I ever said or implied that I had the right. I'm just pointing out the difference between physical and intellectual property. I never stated that piracy is good or justifiable.

I'm going to pirate the **** out of MW2 BECAUSE they removed dedi's. Otherwise, I would've purchased it. There isn't a damn thing you or anyone else is going to do about it. IW doesn't care about the PC community, and they made this decision pre-launch. They don't expect it to sell well on the PC anyways, so who cares.
Quote:
Originally Posted by October
This is what is wrong with PC gaming atm. At least Devs know when they make something for a console everyone who plays it will have paid for it, or at least the significant majority will have.

Then we have idiots like this ^^ who are the reason there will be very few PC optimized games in five or ten years time

If you'd like to argue that physical property theft is the same as intellectual property theft, then please do go ahead and try.

I buy games that are quality and are well supported by the developers. Isn't that the point? I just picked up Borderlands and gifted TF2 to someone. I plan on picking up Dragon Age this week as well.

If developers actually wanted to prevent piracy, there are some pretty obvious ways to do it (Steam for one). Removing features and increasing the price is the wrong way to do it. I don't see Valve complaining about piracy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by smc8788


If a car manufacturer removed the steering wheel from one of their models would you steal it, or go and buy another car? If a band released an album you didn't like, would you pirate it or buy a different one?

How the hell does that make sense to you? If they removed the steering wheel, NO ONE would want it. Why the hell would I want an album that I didn't like?

People steal things because they want them, not because they don't want them.
October 2nd November 2009, 03:33 Quote
So stealing a car which someone built is different from stealing a game someone built?

What are you actually debating here? Is it a size issue? Ease of thievery? Tell us your definition of the difference between stealing a car and a game, you're being rather vague.
wafflesomd 2nd November 2009, 03:45 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by October
So stealing a car which someone built is different from stealing a game someone built?

What are you actually debating here? Is it a size issue? Ease of thievery? Tell us your definition of the difference between stealing a car and a game, you're being rather vague.


If you steal a car, you are removing a physical item from someone else's possession. If you pirate a game, you are merely just making a copy of it, the developer loses sales, not physical property. This is a pretty important factor that generally arises in almost every intellectual theft lawsuit.

It's not rocket science.
October 2nd November 2009, 03:54 Quote
So that makes it ok?

How about...we all do that to get all our games - the developers won't mind because their shiny new stack of retail copies will be intact on the shop floor, they haven't lost anything "physical" (which we all know is the only important thing here) and can carry on making us more games to "merely copy".
wafflesomd 2nd November 2009, 06:50 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by October
So that makes it ok?

How about...we all do that to get all our games - the developers won't mind because their shiny new stack of retail copies will be intact on the shop floor, they haven't lost anything "physical" (which we all know is the only important thing here) and can carry on making us more games to "merely copy".

When did I say either act was ok?

I'm trying to point out that stealing physical property is not the same as stealing intellectual property. It is in response to the car vs. video game comment made earlier. Stealing a car is in no way comparable to pirating a video game.
October 2nd November 2009, 07:46 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by wafflesomd
How the hell does that make sense to you? If they removed the steering wheel, NO ONE would want it. Why the hell would I want an album that I didn't like?

People steal things because they want them, not because they don't want them.

Exactly, you wouldn't buy an album you didn't like. Nor would you go to the bother of downloading it to show the artist exactly how much you didn't like it.

[QUOTE=wafflesomd;2136971I buy games that are quality and are well supported by the developers. Isn't that the point? I just picked up Borderlands and gifted TF2 to someone. I plan on picking up Dragon Age this week as well.

If developers actually wanted to prevent piracy, there are some pretty obvious ways to do it (Steam for one). Removing features and increasing the price is the wrong way to do it. I don't see Valve complaining about piracy.[/QUOTE]

I'm pretty sure the multiplayer system is gonna require more support from IW than if they'd included dedicated servers and are you really trying to say that it won't be a quality game when it's released? How exactly do you judge quality in a game then? For me personally, it's along the lines of a lack of bugs, graphical polish, scalability, length, design, gameplay...

You're contradicting yourself all over the place, you hate the game but you still want it so you're going to pirate it because they didn't make it hard enough to pirate....?

[QUOTE=wafflesomd;2136971]I'm going to pirate the **** out of MW2 BECAUSE they removed dedi's. Otherwise, I would've purchased it. There isn't a damn thing you or anyone else is going to do about it. IW doesn't care about the PC community, and they made this decision pre-launch. They don't expect it to sell well on the PC anyways, so who cares. [/QUOTE]

Some quality logic there... I'm gonna steal and you can't stop me so who cares, rock on you establishment busting revolutionary

The point is, if this had been a brand new IP, there would have been none of this fuss. Yes I was annoyed initially at the lack of dedicated servers, but it's still gonna be a damn good game.

You still haven't explained why exactly you feel the need to pirate the game other than that you're annoyed about the lack of one feature. Are you going to actually play it? The price hike is irrelevant, wait for the inevitable 50% off sale on Steam.
impar 2nd November 2009, 09:32 Quote
Greetings!
Quote:
Originally Posted by smc8788
Just because games are also available in digital form doesn't make it any different from taking a copy of the game off a shelf in a store. Stealing is stealing; it's still someone's intellectual property that they own the rights to, something that a lot of people have invested hundreds of hours of their lives in creating. Who or what gives you the right to say it's OK to take ownership of their work without paying for it?
Its just a matter of personal ethics and moral values.

Some people have been properly educated/instructed/prepared and have acquired those concepts and practise them, others, an increasing number in todays society, just fail to understand those concepts, either for personal flaw or their educators failure.
wafflesomd 2nd November 2009, 17:20 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by October
You're contradicting yourself all over the place, you hate the game but you still want it so you're going to pirate it because they didn't make it hard enough to pirate....?

I want the game and I had it pre-ordered. After the removal of dedicated servers however, I no longer think the game is worth my hard earned money.


Quote:
Originally Posted by October




I'm pretty sure the multiplayer system is gonna require more support from IW than if they'd included dedicated servers and are you really trying to say that it won't be a quality game when it's released? How exactly do you judge quality in a game then? For me personally, it's along the lines of a lack of bugs, graphical polish, scalability, length, design, gameplay...

Removing dedicated servers essentially means the removal of multiplayer entirely. That to me lowers the quality of the game.
Quote:
Originally Posted by October
The point is, if this had been a brand new IP, there would have been none of this fuss. Yes I was annoyed initially at the lack of dedicated servers, but it's still gonna be a damn good game.

Dedicated servers is something I would expect from a game back in 1998.

Quote:
Originally Posted by October
The price hike is irrelevant,

Raising the games price by $10 and removing what many consider a crucial feature is irrelevant? Whatever.
smc8788 2nd November 2009, 17:48 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by wafflesomd
After the removal of dedicated servers however, I no longer think the game is worth my hard earned money.

Then don't buy it. Simple.

You want to know why IW removed dedicated servers and is moving away from supporting the PC? It's because of people like you.

Of course, this is like talking to a brick wall so I'm sure none of this is getting through. You just don't seem to understand that there is no earthly justification for stealing the game just because they removed one feature, however crucial (which also begs the question why you still want to play the game when all you've done is badmouth it and say they've ruined it. What would you even gain from pirating it? Besides breaking the law, hammering another nail in the PC gaming coffin, and making yourself look like a complete tool, that is). Even if IW ran over your dog that still wouldn't give you an excuse to steal one of their products.

You, sir, are nothing more than a common thief, and a disgrace to the PC gaming community.
wafflesomd 2nd November 2009, 18:14 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by smc8788
Then don't buy it. Simple.

.

Don't worry, I'm not. That's the point of pirating :D

Have you guys figured it out yet? I'll give you a hint.

I don't care.

You guys should probably start attacking my personal life now. That seems like the logical step to take.

For the record, I've purchased almost twenty games this year, all of which were for PC. I'm killing PC gaming.
Czotie 2nd November 2009, 22:29 Quote
Dear Infinity Ward,

Yes having central servers works for consoles, but PCs aren't limited to that. Infinityware has gone from an amazing company that appeared to be openly supporting PCs and the LAN community, to ignoring us. Never mind that fact that PC gamers generally have more disposable income then console gamers because they like to buy rigs that kick ass (1000 - 4000 dollars (xbox and ps3 200-400)). I myself was planning on getting both the PC version and PS3 version, I have since canceled both. And now even EA/DICE has come out saying dedicated servers are the best for PCs which is BULLSHIT! WHY DONT YOU ASK THE CONSUMER OR HAVE THEM TAKE A ****ING POLL. If you are going to put out a game like MW2 don't just dangle the sports car in front of us then give us a powder blue Prius after we order it. Given that there would likely not be an Infinity Ward or CoD series in the first place if not for the popularity of the first two games on the PC... I believe Infinity ward will do the right thing by changing it back to the original dedicated servers for pc, and if they don't, say bye bye to the PC consumer. When these consumers are lost due to this (and they will leave except for stupid ass Timmy who is a noob and his mom buys it ne ways, or grandma buys it for him), we will be very bitter, i know because i am one. If we have not already, we will not waste our money on a console, and if this atrocity happens, we never will.
If it is Pirating Infinity Ward is trying to fight they should realize all the people who want to play multilayer will still buy the game because they will not be able to play online. The same amount of people will buy it no matter what (unless the matchmaking is bs) and thousands and thousands more people will buy it with dedicated servers run by us. THEY must also realize it is just as easy to pirate a game for PC, to pirate it for an Xbox 360 or a PS3, there are only a few more steps involved and just as many console gamers do it. Like I said, the only people who will pirate it are the people who will only play the single player, or the people who don't like to play the intense multiplayer and would rather play it with a few nooby friends at a lan party.

For all i know your system is very user friendly and works well but every centralized multiplayer pc game i have seen has been a disaster and not worth buying.

So Infinity Ward, it is up to you to choose...

But you must choose wisely

For while the true Call of Duty Multiplayer will bring you lots of happy consumers ($$$$$$!), the false Multiplayer will will take them from you.

Chris Zotovich
Avid COD4 Multiplayer player and pro
Concerned for the future of not just COD:MWF 2, concerned for the future of Infinity Ward, and the future of PC Gaming.
$plit 4th November 2009, 15:12 Quote
9v9 multiplayer? really ? come on IW...see lame responses from the DEVs >

http://forums.bestbuy.com/t5/Gaming/Call-of-Duty-Modern-Warfare-2-Live-Chat-Session-Transcript/td-p/67692

sorry if this has been posted already...
impar 4th November 2009, 15:32 Quote
Greetings!
Quote:
Originally Posted by $plit
9v9 multiplayer? really ? come on IW...see lame responses from the DEVs >
http://forums.bestbuy.com/t5/Gaming/Call-of-Duty-Modern-Warfare-2-Live-Chat-Session-Transcript/td-p/67692
Quote:
Josh111: PC Question... What will the max amount of players per map be for PC multiplayer on IW.net
Vince-IW: 9v9
...
pittboss: will the private multiplayer matches for the pc be run as a p2p connections or are they run via the IWnet?
Mackey-IW: IWNet matches players together based on several factors including ping and skill. After players are matched, the most suitable host is determined. That player hosts until they quit, at which time hosting responsibilities will normally migrate to another player without interrupting the match.
Mankz 4th November 2009, 15:36 Quote
I sense sooooooo much fail in MW2 multi I needs its own demot...
Baz 4th November 2009, 16:04 Quote
personally i don't have a problem with 9v9 - yeah, we've gotten used to playing 16 vx 16 but have you actually played COD4 on a 26, 32 or even 50 player server? It's bloody ****. The maps simply aren;t designed to be played with that high a number of players. I actively look for servers with a player cap of less than 20 anyway, so limiting the PC to 9vs9 seems reasonable - more players isnt always better!.

However, hosting an 18 player game from home net connection might not be so much fun. Everyone's hating on this game but i'm all for trying it out first before pouring on the scorn and hatred.
cjmUK 4th November 2009, 16:12 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baz
However, hosting an 18 player game from home net connection might not be so much fun. Everyone's hating on this game but i'm all for trying it out first before pouring on the scorn and hatred.

So even though the player limit is comparatively small, and even though you acknowledge that your average home user might struggle even hosting that number, you are willing to gamble £30+ in the hope that it isn't as borked as it sounds?

But then you'd have to take the gamble, wouldn't you - since there isn't, and won't be, a demo.
adam_bagpuss 4th November 2009, 16:18 Quote
hmm 18 player match on 512kb upload i dont think so
$plit 4th November 2009, 17:31 Quote
I'm all for waiting on others to beta and demo it for me. And yes..I played BF2 with as many players as i could compete against...more players to k1ll for me... :)
Baz 4th November 2009, 22:03 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjmUK
So even though the player limit is comparatively small, and even though you acknowledge that your average home user might struggle even hosting that number, you are willing to gamble £30+ in the hope that it isn't as borked as it sounds?

But then you'd have to take the gamble, wouldn't you - since there isn't, and won't be, a demo.

I'll still play and enjoy the single player experience too - games aren't just about the multi-player you know. Batman was £30, i bought it, played it through once and uninstalled it? Do I feel robbed? Hell no, it was great fun for 15 or so hours.

Even if the game did have a demo, surely it wouldn't contain the MP component anyway? It'd just be a level or two of shooting in SP.

Far too much judging being done on this game based on nothing but angry hurt feelings. Will P2P be as good as dedicated servers? Probably not, no. Will p2p servers still be fun? I'd wager a probably yes.
cjmUK 4th November 2009, 23:43 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baz
Far too much judging being done on this game based on nothing but angry hurt feelings. Will P2P be as good as dedicated servers? Probably not, no. Will p2p servers still be fun? I'd wager a probably yes.

That's like saying is pacman fun? "I'll wager a probably yes". But it's not the way we want PC Gaming to go.If we roll over for this one, what will be next?

I'm sure the production values will be great, the SP short but intense, and 4v4 (the likely limit of an ordinary MaxADSL connection) will nevertheless be fun. But it won't be what it could/should have been.

What is IW's stance on DLC? 'We are just concentrating on launching this great new game...' What does that mean? It means 'we have every intention of charging for DLC, just like for consoles, but we are waiting to see if the proverbial hits the fan'.

It is a step towards homogenising the PC and console markets... It is up to you whether you want to support that.
[ZiiP] NaloaC 5th November 2009, 00:16 Quote
Transcript of chat with IW members

This kind of riled me up. The 9v9 is not THAT big an issue. 18 players on well-sized (By that I mean well laid out and structured) maps is plenty of fun. Personally I was never a fan of anything over 24 players in CoD4 as it was just too 'random'. Smaller numbers can very often, in my opinion lead to some great firefights.

The 9v9 is not the issue, the issue is the laxidazy, haphazard answers to many questions that they just brush off.

It is true that we cannot judge this properly, simply because it is not released yet. That is plain and simple. The new 'improvements', a term in this regard I use very very loosely seem so random and pointless that it seems like they are out of control of their own game.

The price hike has nothing to do with IW, I place the responsibility for that squarely with Activision, ruthless gits as they are. The 3rd person aspect, I see no validity in its inclusion in the game at all. Other games have it, but they are built around it. This just seems tacked on. Tactical nuke wins the game. What, the, hell.

Geh, some things with this release just defy common sense.

I have to be honest, I do hope that the pre-load is well in advance of the actual release, as it's going to be sizeable to say the least. I won a copy of the game, so I have no qualms on that part of it, although I feel somewhat bad that someone had to fork out the raised price for a dissheveled game they will not play. :o
knuck 5th November 2009, 02:13 Quote
my friend brought up something interesting about the third person. If anyone can enable it this means that people will be able to peak around corners without being seen, which is very unfair to first person players. You can also evaluate if you're visible to the enemy when you hide behind something

lame
impar 5th November 2009, 09:44 Quote
OnyxLilninja 5th November 2009, 10:46 Quote
Well I bought Cod4 and I enjoyed it. But this is making me nerdrage more and more. I'm now going to enjoy pirating it and sticking my middle finger up at those idiots at infinity ward. :(
smc8788 5th November 2009, 11:44 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghys
my friend brought up something interesting about the third person. If anyone can enable it this means that people will be able to peak around corners without being seen, which is very unfair to first person players. You can also evaluate if you're visible to the enemy when you hide behind something

lame

They've already said that the third-person mode will only be available in certain game modes, where every player will have it enabled so no one has an advantage.
knuck 6th November 2009, 17:22 Quote
what ? you'll be forced to have it enabled in some modes ? hahahahaha
uz1_l0v3r 12th November 2009, 13:46 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baz


Even if the game did have a demo, surely it wouldn't contain the MP component anyway? It'd just be a level or two of shooting in SP.

MP demos are often released. For a game whose success was built largely on its MP function, that's quite an oversight.
Spaceraver 24th November 2009, 10:51 Quote
My brother got it. Tried it, liked the game as such, just glad I didn't shell out 400 Dkr on it. Laggy, could not get a few friends to join a private game. And there needs to be bigger maps with more players. When you have been shot and have killed player X so many times in a row.. It starts to get tedious. And why do I always end up in a game with 3 french dudes, 2 germans and a portugese guy? 2 of which can understand english, and one shouts engrish anyways.

I want to be able to customize the damn thing. Custom gamemodes and Mods are one of the best and most hilarious ways of entertaining myself. They should just have let it run on Steam for validation.
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