Valve responds to Left 4 Dead 2 boycott

"We also agree with our customers that there needs to be an interoperability plan for players of L4D1 and L4D2, as multiplayer games are driven by the cohesiveness of their community."

... great, but how is he going to make sure the cohesion remains? I don't hink he answered the point did he?

That didn't really add anything we didn't already know. And leaves us with the same concerns as before.

What's the point of updating two almost identicle products seperately instead of bringing them together?

Also we know that UI enhancements such as 4x4 mach making are being marketed to us as a considerable content update. There are no details of anything else planned for L4D.

Feels like they may test some L4D2 UI ideas in L4D before releasing it.

Shocked as they were by the deserved response to L4D, I don't think Valve want to/can back down now. You can already pre order this game in some stores.

Originally Posted by MajorTom
What's the point of updating two almost identicle products seperately instead of bringing them together?

Also we know that UI enhancements such as 4x4 mach making are being marketed to us as a considerable content update. There are no details of anything else planned for L4D).

Feels like they may test some L4D2 UI ideas in L4D1 before releasing it.

Shocked as they were by the deserved response to L4D, I don't think Valve want to/can back down now. You can already pre order this game in some stores.

I totally agree! They REALLY should make a upgrade path for L4D(1) > L4D(2) for existing owners and just release L4D2 to new customers.

And what about new campaigns for L4D(1) ? Ooh wait! They want us (the community) to make campaigns for L4D. But guess what happens if L4D(2) is released, do you think anyone wants create mods and still want play L4D(1)

I really do not see the issue here.
If they want to release another version then they can. People may be saying to release it as content, but there is obviously a reason for not doing that (not for MOAR money, this is valve afterall not EA). There may be major updates to the engine and gameplay that would not be compatible with the "old" game. If they were to add all the weapons and new gameplay dynamics to the original then it would be a massive overhaul.

I will get L4D2, if you don't want to get it then its your problem. Almost every sequel is just the same game with updates and different levels/weapons and people don't go crazy about them. Yes its a bit soon after L4D but you would moan if they took 3 years about it.

Edit: with a seconds worth of reflection I will concede that some sort of upgrade path needs to be made, but not by making L4D2 an addon for L4D, but the other way round. Like how you can get all the original rockband songs on rockband 2. Then these maps be playable with owners of L4D. But I stand by my point, stop moaning. You bought a game, a bloody good game and you want more. Yes they may have promised support but its not a contract with you to do so, and even if it was, much like a UK political party's manifesto, they do not seem to stick to them. That's life...

I havnt got round to picking up left 4 dead yet and now wondering if I should. I dont want to pick it up and then find all the players have moved to left 4 dead 2. I think im going to have to skip the first one and get the sequal which is exactly the same game with different levels and different player skins.

It all comes down to how Valve market their games - telling people that their games are a service and not a product in the traditional sense.

If you buy a game that is marketted as a one-off product with no promise of support, you likely wouldn't have a problem with this. You'd probably welcome the new game.

Because it's been marketted as a service however, people have bought Left 4 Dead thinking not that they'll get 10 or 12 hours of play out of it, but that they'll get potentially YEARS out of it thanks to the promised support and extras. As a product, you only expect what's there. As a service, you're buying into what else will be coming in the future too.

L4D1 is still an amazing purchase, and you will definitely get your monies worth by the time L4D 2 comes out...

Christ... its like £25... peanuts really considering the hours of fun you will get out of it before L4D 2.


Then Im sure you will get countless hours more fun from L4D2 for another £25... well worth it in my opinion. There are a lot of cheapskates around here who think the world (or valve in this case) owes them lifetime entertainment simply because they spent a measly £25.

Bring on L4D2... Im in.

Originally Posted by MajorTom
What's the point of updating two almost identicle products seperately instead of bringing them together?

I agree, this either needs to be released as premium content, or function like the CoH expansions where if you have the original game it unlocks all of the original features (effectively merging it into one game anyway so this is essentially premium content that you wouldn't have to own the original to get).

Originally Posted by lewchenko
There are a lot of cheapskates around here who think the world (or valve in this case) owes them lifetime entertainment simply because they spent a measly £25.

No, we think Valve owe us what the promised, it's not really too much to ask for is it? As Joe said, we didn't buy L4D simply for the game but the extras we'd get with the game afterwards. If you look at the content of the game (not how long you play said content for) it's pretty measly in comparison to a lot of games. But we were happy to pay it because we knew valve would release more stuff later on for it. Essentially we bought a half finished game, and now we've been told we're going to have to buy the other half.

Gabe Newell: Saying nothing while talking for over a decade.

Honestly, this is a no surprise no news 'answer' to a boycott.

I wouldn't be shocked if this is one of the last few 'official' announcements or statements regarding L4D/L4D2.

haha I was right in my comment for last weeks L4D2 article. People did get pissed.

Valve knows what they are doing. I respect them more than any other Dev and their decisions seem to play out well. It is a bit soon but they seem to care more about their gamers than EA for example and I think they have a right to do this. Oh and that boycott is BS. They would buy it anyway :D

Originally Posted by Thacrudd
Valve knows what they are doing. I respect them more than any other Dev and their decisions seem to play out well. It is a bit soon but they seem to care more about their gamers than EA for example and I think they have a right to do this. Oh and that boycott is BS. They would buy it anyway :D

Therein Lies the problem. While gamers have matured and gotten older, we are still one of the few communities reluctant to vote with our wallets against Developers/Publishers. Every year EA takes a beating in the PR department, yet all their sports franchises sell millions. It's funny listening to a friend walk out of the store with a new copy of Madden in hand complaining that it's BS for EA to charge full price every year for a roster update in their sports games.

"Doing a sequel in one year is new for Valve. "

Your telling me. HURRY UP AND FINISH EPISODE 3 GODDAMMIT! >.<

"We aren't changing our plans for L4D1."

Good, then I look forward to my new maps and special infected :)

One of the problems I have with L4D2, is the fact that I actually don't like the look of it. They add all this new stuff and it seems so unnecessary to me. I don't care about new characters, throwing in a bunch of new weapons will just mean balancing issues for months, and now there are weather effects...
The only part that looks fun is the running to turn off the alert rather than camping, and a variety from the usual spawn of infected. Both of which don't need an overhaul of an engine or AI.
That and additions of items like incidenary ammo look like poor design choices. You can dodge molotovs as a tank (satisfying), but you certainly can't dodge bullets (removal of any strategy bar charging).

I guess it's because I'm solely a vs player, but even design choices like randomised levels seem unfair to me so I would just prefer for them not to be there. Simply put, I won't be removing myself from the boycott L4D2 group just yet, as not only am I yet to be convinced I'll even enjoy it, I will apparently now be getting the content promised. This supporting 2 of the same game at once is a little weird though, it'll be interesting to see how it pans out.

I guess they're making L4D2 for all the coop players out there, it's too bad the competitive players seem to have been the most vocal.

L4D 2 its comming just way to soon, even more if you consider the great posibilities of expanding the first game and have not yet being done.

1. Its a game we all have enjoy for hours, and the game only contains 4 campaings, imagine how many of extra hours of entertainment an expansion pack with a couple of new campaings would give us.

2. This game is also based in achievements, and part of the fun is winning this achievements with you buddies. just adding new achievements would add even more hours to play this game.

I dont see the point of making a second release when there's still to much room for the first one.

Originally Posted by themax
Therein Lies the problem. While gamers have matured and gotten older, we are still one of the few communities reluctant to vote with our wallets against Developers/Publishers. Every year EA takes a beating in the PR department, yet all their sports franchises sell millions. It's funny listening to a friend walk out of the store with a new copy of Madden in hand complaining that it's BS for EA to charge full price every year for a roster update in their sports games.

+1
so true! .. shame really

Some type of integration would be nice. But, I purchased LFD1 for 24.99US. AND....... like I always do I will buy LFD2 for the same price or less when it comes down. To me.... What a steal! :)

I'm a little disappointed with the lack of support and delay in releasing the SDK. You have to recognize LFD was a break through in gaming. They were probably on a role with ideas and after the test release of the first one and it's success they probably took their new and better ideas and immediately started on the second to amaze us again.

I say their innocent with good intentions. With change comes some sacrifice. I bet they will make it up to us. :)

Left 4 Dead TWO means you will pay AGAIN.

If they just called it "L4D: Mêlée", said it was available via retail and download (like most steam), and acted as a suplement over the original all the moaners would shut the hell up.

You pay your money, you get new L4D content, and of course you can't play "like for like" online games with other players unless you all have the same "extras".

IT IS THE SAME AS EVERY OTHER GAME IN THAT RESPECT!

Originally Posted by Otto69
Left 4 Dead TWO means you will pay AGAIN.

Whhhhhaaaattttt I did not see the 2 at first. Anybody else miss that?

j/k :D

i don't think its a good idea to make a second one just yet.
they should put efforts in improving the game, like creating additional weapons or more mutiplayer maps etc.
if all goes out. in the second one they should make it a 6 player game. "Left 6 dead" ahahahahah.
either way, i think its still to early, that game hasn't even been out for a year yet.

I love this Quote

Originally Posted by Gabe Newell
Some in the community are concerned that the announcement of L4D2 implied a change in our plans for L4D1. We aren't changing our plans for L4D1."

could mean anything from "we intended to support it from day one and will continue to support it" to "we planned to screw you from day one and we have no intention of not screwing you"

The entire answer is full of vague statements that basicially add up to nothing.

L4D 2 surfacing too fast means:
Like the original, it will bring no content
No content=too easy to write a game = too fast releasing=game communities feel like they are treated like machines:)

Originally Posted by Matticus
Edit: with a seconds worth of reflection I will concede that some sort of upgrade path needs to be made, but not by making L4D2 an addon for L4D, but the other way round. Like how you can get all the original rockband songs on rockband 2. Then these maps be playable with owners of L4D.

I think that's an excellent idea. Then you just launch L4D2 and if you want to play with Zoey, Francis, Louis and Bill, just choose those maps, If you want the new characters choose the new ones.

Plus I reckon that Valve will release a couple of new campaigns and weapons for L4D with new campaigns for L4D2 to continue the story of the survivors.

Different game, different characters, different story, both will get updated.

As long as I can still play the original maps with people on L4D1 when I am in L4D2 without having to leave and launch the original I am fine with it.

Originally Posted by Matticus
I really do not see the issue here.
If they want to release another version then they can. People may be saying to release it as content, but there is obviously a reason for not doing that (not for MOAR money, this is valve afterall not EA). There may be major updates to the engine and gameplay that would not be compatible with the "old" game. If they were to add all the weapons and new gameplay dynamics to the original then it would be a massive overhaul.

I will get L4D2, if you don't want to get it then its your problem. Almost every sequel is just the same game with updates and different levels/weapons and people don't go crazy about them. Yes its a bit soon after L4D but you would moan if they took 3 years about it.

Edit: with a seconds worth of reflection I will concede that some sort of upgrade path needs to be made, but not by making L4D2 an addon for L4D, but the other way round. Like how you can get all the original rockband songs on rockband 2. Then these maps be playable with owners of L4D. But I stand by my point, stop moaning. You bought a game, a bloody good game and you want more. Yes they may have promised support but its not a contract with you to do so, and even if it was, much like a UK political party's manifesto, they do not seem to stick to them. That's life...

They really cant have L4D2 players play with L4D1 without giving L4D1 the updates to the engine, ai, infected and weapons. Add all this to L4D for free and charge for the new campaigns and survivors. This is the only compromise that should work for everyone.

Backwards compatibility? If they made the new engine from the current one then I am sure that L4D2 would be able to run everything on L4D and just not use the new bits. This way L4D2 players can still play with L4D1 players, but only on the L4D1 maps.

Originally Posted by MajorTom
That didn't really add anything we didn't already know. And leaves us with the same concerns as before.

confirmed, if anything, that there will be no more content for Left4Dead.

I'm not concerned about L4D1, I'm concerned about paying £30 for what is essentially a graphical update.