Fans boycott Left 4 Dead 2
A growing number of Left 4 Dead fans have opted to boycott Valve's newly announced zombie survival sequel.
Forming in their own Steam community group the L4D2 Boycott has quickly gathered a large number of fans who take issue with the way that Valve has moved on to Left 4 Dead 2 so quickly. Their complaints are nicely summarised around nine key points.
- Significant content for L4D1 was promised, and never delivered
- Valve put little faith in L4D1 since they almost certainly started working on L4D2 right after release
- The fact that L4D2 is nearly identical to L4D1 will decimate the community for both games
- The announced date is not nearly enough time to polish content or make significant gameplay changes
- The new character designs seem bland and unappealing so far
- L4D2 is too bright to fit in with L4D1's visual aesthetic
- The fiddle-based horde music is extremely disliked, though the differently orchestrated music is otherwise welcome
- L4D2's release will result in a drop in quality and frequency for L4D1 content, even compared to before
- The community has lost faith in Valve's former reputation for commitment to their games post-release
Expanding on the issue many fans who have joined the boycott are asking why Valve isn't just releasing the sequel content as downloadable content, with many gamers pointing to the Team Fortress 2 expansions as proof that that Valve is radically changing support methods.
Left 4 Dead 2 is set to be mostly the same as the original game by the looks of things, with a handful of new boss zombies and a new melee system thrown in with four new campaigns and a refined AI director system. To find out more about the first game you can read our full Left 4 Dead review or check out our Complete Guide to Left 4 Dead for tips, tricks and tactics - or you can let us know yours thoughts in the forums.
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And isn't 6 months enough to fix most of the minor issues, like the music and brightness?
A standalone expansion, like Crysis warhead, would be good, because it could be in a different part of town?
translation: 'waaah give us discounts.'
But I have to agree with them in part, and i loved the music in the demos i saw... I am the only one??
Valve promised its usual high standard of updates and content patches for l4d at release but failed to follow through, i think anyone who has studied all the levels in the only content patch will agree, the amount of effort to make them was disturbingly lacking compared to the normal valve high standard.
Now it turns out the reason for the poor quality and lack of updates is due to them working on another game that is essentially exactly the same, and are going to sell it for full price.
This is not the Valve i had grown to love.
Full Manifesto
WE RECOGNIZE:
-Valve is a company with financial needs and cannot be expected to survive without the release of new games.
-Judgment cannot be passed on the quality of Left 4 Dead 2 until its release.
-Left 4 Dead was, and is, a quality game which deserves the praise of the entire gaming community.
WE ARE COMMITTED:
-To holding Valve to its promise of free, continual updates to Left 4 Dead in order to build and sustain the community.
-To keeping the Left 4 Dead community together in order to improve the quality of online gaming.
-To supporting the model of continual updates Valve has set forth with its staple products like Team Fortress 2.
WE BELIEVE:
-The release of Left 4 Dead 2 as a stand-alone sequel will split the communities and decrease the quality of multiplayer gaming.
-The announced content of Left 4 Dead 2 does not warrant a stand-alone, full-priced sequel and should instead become updates (free or otherwise) for Left 4 Dead.
-Left 4 Dead has not yet received the support and content which Valve has repeatedly stated will be delivered.
-The release of Left 4 Dead 2 will make Left 4 Dead an obsolete purchase and inferior piece of software after only one year since release.
WE REQUEST:
-That Valve honor its commitment to release ongoing periodic content for Left 4 Dead.
-That Left 4 Dead 2 not be released as a stand-alone, full-priced sequel but as either a free update to Left 4 Dead or an expansion with full compatibility with basic Left 4 Dead owners.
-That Left 4 Dead owners be given discounts for Left 4 Dead 2, should it be released as premium content.
It's pretty clear that despite there being regular updates, they haven't been addressing a great deal and Survival mode aside there hasn't been a lot of new content - probably because they've been working on L4D2...
It does seem to be expansion pack content being rehashed as a full game instead, it should be paid DLC or and expansion for the amount of changes being made.
and it may be a minor thing for some: but i really don't like the new survivors at all, they seem to be a mix of 'meh' and downright annoying-looking, there's not a single one i'd like playing from what i've seen so far.
A real shame as the 4 original ones were all great!
I'll hold off until a demo gets released to try it, but apart from the new melee weapons, there's nothing at all that stands out as being worth the cost so far. :|
Having been very disappointed with L4D - and after Joe's preview I had been quite enthusiastic - I'm not going to risk the sequel.
As for their manifesto... the one I read on the group (the same one that clx posted) is fair enough. L4D certainly doesn't seem to be up to Valve's previous high standards.
At the same time Valve has the right to spend on development and then make that money back through sales AND has said absolutely nothing about prices or lack there of.
As Mr Tommy Lee Jones once said, a person is smart, people are stupid and the community does itself no favours by bitching and turning on Valve when it makes a bit of a slip-up. Being fickle only gets people so far...
They promised but didn't deliver and now want more money. It doesn't work like that.
you sound like you're playing it single-player. that, my friend, is where you are going totally wrong. this game is MADE for online play with friends.
I'll HAPPILY buy l4D2, if i get even half as much fun out of it, It will be well worth the money. Hell I'll even commit to L4D3 in 2010 right now.
Valve has unfortunately set an expectation for free content. Thats what Little Johnny whineypants has come to expect.
Appreciate it when you get it, don't go in a huff when you don't. The community will be swimming in user made stuff soon enough.
Personaly, If I created a game, and I hosted and was paying for the forum, I can't honestly say that i would let people bad mouth all over it.
Its like handing a mugger baseball bat so he can rob you more efficiently.
Constructive criticism is a different matter of course.
So I agree there is another side to the coin
Well done to Valve you're supporting those who want to keep on killing the hoard and still live in the real world :)
Some people spend so much time in their virtual world they forget how things really work out there (Especially in a cross platform world!!!!!!)
all i play is css....
where the fudge are my updates and free content?
your all spoiled
Here's a nice thought:
Scrap the crappy new characters, that means no new VO work and now new models
VO work can take a very long time and can be very expensive, so cutting out that will cut down the costs considerably
No new music, again, will cut the cost, L4D doesn't need new music
All it needs, is new levels, new lobby system (especially on xbox live, it's not like they couldn't have gotten this right the first time anyway) and a few fixes. That's not really a whole lot more than they've done for the likes of TF2.
If they really do need some money to recoup costs, then release it as premium DLC, I'd rather them go back on their promise of not having to pay for any content (so long as not every bit of content is premium) than go back on their promise of supporting the game post release.
L4D2 will be good, L4D was good, the support has been fine.
most other companies would have released survival mode as a purchasable DL, Valve release it for free and everyone complains! lets face it whatever they do someone is always going to whinge
imo of course.....
Vista's been out longer than a year. ;)
Left 4 Dead was a huge success on the Xbox, and still sells quite well. However, Microsoft does not like substantial downloadable content, especially not free downloadable content (you've seen how hard it's been for Valve to release the Team Fortress 2 updates on Xbox 360; it's because Microsoft wants them to charge for it). Microsoft likes new games, because new games make more money. My guess is that Microsoft instantly went to Valve after the first game was a success and said "look, we'll support you financially if you get to work on a sequel" or something similar.
It's business. Valve is a great company but it is not a perfect company. There are bugs in all of there games that have gone and will go unfixed, they will make decisions that the community does not like, they will forget about their old games as the sequels come out. That's the way of things when you need to keep bringing in money; supporting a minority of players after years is just not feasible. While I find the Left 4 Dead 2 announcement a bit sudden and a bit too soon, I think a lot of players have been spoiled with regards to the content Valve offers; to some degree it's Valve's own doing, of course, because due to their track record, their customers now expect tons of post-release support and content updates as standard. Frankly, the first Left 4 Dead always seemed a bit content-lite to me (I don't own it, just from what I have seen/read), and I've never been a huge fan of multiplayer-only games, so Left 4 Dead 2 does seem like the better buy to me.
Anyway, before that potential flame war catches fire...
Valve stated there would be updates for l4d (google fails me at the moment) yet when they did have some content to give the players it was delayed and delayed. Then finally when it was a massive let down. Im not talking let down in terms of game play, i loved survival mode. Im talking about let down in the time spent compared to the finished product. The much hyped Survival Mode only actually had 1 new map, every other map looked like it was taken from the original map and had a few metal fences and cupboards placed to block your path...
Then it turned out it was that! you load up any of the maps appart from lighthouse and use cheats to explore, you will find that the game loads the entire level, which is a rediculous waste of resources. and the modifications look like they have been done by an intern at the weekend. Me and my friends even found the invisible hit boxes of the unbroken bridge in the train yard on the day of release. The whole release, while being fun to play for a while, stunk of corners cut and lack of the usual Valve polish.
And now to address that and make the game highly polished and more up to date... you must buy a whole new game.
No offense mate, but i can clearly see you had just played single player game?... totally not the way this game is meant to be played, pls give a try to the multiplayer and you will find out what's the game we all have being praising.
The offence part its because i LoL a lil bit :o
cheers :D
Personally, I'm looking forward to L4D2.
To me, this is the problem. I've also been really looking forward to some of the mods that people were making for Left 4 Dead - yet they announced L4D2 just a week or two after the official mod tools come out. We already know they've tweaked the new AI director system too, so now the mod scene for L4D1 is just going to shrivel while people wait for the sequel, then for those tools, etc.
I'll still buy it. I'll still love it (probably). I'll still play it. I have to admit I'm a little annoyed at Valve for doing this though - especially since they could develop Episode 3 and Portal 2 in the mean time and give players a big dose of what they really want.
mods for l4d1 will be forward-compatible with l4d2, or so it was claimed. i wonder if it will work the other way around, too.
I have to say I'm not really fussed about EP3 anymore. I've played through the others, and they were enjoyable, but I feel it's DNF syndrome all over again. Leave a game in development for long enough and people lose interest.
Basically people are making groups to boycott the boycott group.
er, ep2 came out a year ago. it hasn't been 12 years.
Same here. I bought L4D not long after it came out and played it to death. Now I'm waiting for L4D2. I don't care if it's full price. It's a different game.
:p Yeah, I know, but the HL2 storyline has been strung out since 2004.
still, to compare it to DNF is hardly fair. each release has been, strictly speaking, a standalone game.
Ive played the crap out of L4D and I just want something new.
Where's the boycott for THAT? Well?
Same engine... same graphics... looks kinda the same gameplay... cod4 is only 2 years old!
I'm outraged at Infinity Ward's lack of respect for its customers! :P
Seriously though, I never got L4D.... I never really wanted it. But to me L4D2 looks like a game I might buy.
I'm not complaining... it just looks like they're releasing a game which is what the original should have been.
Ain't that what sequels are for?
There's a huge difference between a year old game (from a developer reknowned for taking ages to make titles) and a two year gap from a publisher that's openly admitted to just exploiting franchises over and over and over.
Creating a sequel 1 year after the release of the original is absolutely mad, especially when the original is still unbalanced and glitchy. Reminds me of what EA did with Battlefield 2. Rather than continue to support the game, the release a NEW game which is set a bit in the future but the majority of everything is the same?
Everything in Left 4 Dead 2 is easily possible in a patch or update. They're still using the source engine, just an updated version, so saying that they HAVE to release it as a full game is a load of crap. It cost £40 or so for the XBox version. Telling a gamer that after playing the game for less than a year that the sequel, which is almost exactly the same, is coming out and will have everything that the original should've had (That's what valve have literally said)...Now that's mental. Specially in this economic down turn. wtb bang for buck. That's why I now play Warsow and Quake Live. Free with constant updates. ;)
Except they took the time to create a whole new singleplayer which is the main reason to buy the game.
Also what is added seems a little on sparce side in an already sparce game. It's certanly in the realms of an expantion pack (with backwards intergration), but nowhere near full new game or free DLC.
I cant see this announcment causing anything but a nose-dive for L4D sales while prospective buyers wait it out. Looking at Steam L4D had hardly taken a down turn had it?
LOL that makes me laugh... yes please work your ass off spending hundreds of hours and give it all to us for free because we are cheapskapes and dont think you deserve money for what your making....
Come on people really??? I mean I know times are tough with the economy but come on....
It's a shame because the actual games are generally great.
Game Programmers - We are only half way on L4D2?
Valve CEO - Who cares about content AI or quality , just improve the graphic or something make it seem different.
I want a sequal every year damn it.
Valve CEO-(thinking in his mind) How the Hell am i supposed to get my G5 private jet if they dont release game every year
stupid Buffins
I think I'll stick with id Software. :(
It was the other way around for L4D2 FYI. L4D team said they wanted to do L4D2, and Valve agreed.
Pretty ****ing cheap to state pre-launch they'll be doing something they've normally done, only to scrap that and releasing a new game instead.
Yet more evidence that the old, arguably better, team in Valve got killed a long, long time ago.
HOW VERY DARE THEY!
no wonder nobody bothers with us
we either complain or pirate
or so it would seem
Now where's episode 3.
Hey it works for sports games why not FPS games now? But seriously how many people do you know that buy the new FIFA or PES every year? Yes there is a market for it but the problem is that market is not the same market as a more online dependent game. With the sports game a lot of enjoyment can still be had by working a crappy team up the league, winning a few world cups and tournaments. And ultimately if you want the multiplayer experience you invite a few mates over and have a laugh.
However with the online designed FPS the AI is usually pap compared to a real person and designers know this. Their excuse for it is its meant to played with real people, but that becomes increasingly difficult the more you segregate the fan base by releasing yearly games. On the PC it might not be so bad as the HDD allows for all game data to be accessed at the same time and could mean that a person with all games could play all maps, but a person with half the games could only play half the maps. But imagine that on the xbox: "please insert L4D2 disc to play this match" and if their solution for this was to release all games on the latest game then why are we paying £40 for what is effectively a map pack?
To sum up I could see this crushing a great IP before it really has a chance to get going. And to all those who are saying its a brand new game its not, if it weren't released by the games developers you'd call it a mod so why should we call it anything else? Personally I feel tensions would be diffused if valve went back on their word and said "no L4D2, instead we're going to charge for expansions, major updates and DLC"
dont be a jackass. its NOT a new game. if you actually look at that video that was posted it backs up what many are complaining about. Valve directly said that new weapons, characters, achievements and such would come to L4D now they took all that and made a sequel and are going to charge full price which is stupid. the content should have been made available for the original game even if there was a small charge. taking time and resources to make a new game instead of delivering what was promised for the original game is a simply ripping people off. not to mention that there will now be two separate L4D games so which is likely to get more attention from Valve...the new one of course.
Xbox 360 - Release a full sequel at a full price, because that's just how it is on consoles. They can blame Microsoft if they want to.
PC - Update all copies of L4D to L4D2 when it comes out, give them the new weapons, updated AI and new special infected. But charge $25 for the 4 new survivors, 5 new campaigns, new vs and survial maps. For anyone new buying L4D, L4D2 will be the only option and sell for $50 and include all 9 campaigns. This way even if someone just has L4D1 and their friend buys L4D2, they can at least still play the original 4 maps together.
This way Valve still gets paid, the community is kept together and is given enough free content to fulfill Valves promise and everyone will be happy.
Thanks for showing that:
a) you can't read
b) you can't watch and understand a video
Come back and post when you can, thanks.
Not reading more into and assuming people are upset over just the price, one may jump to your conclusion. But that does not solve the fragmented community problem which is the other major point people are upset with.
wow come on its a game, there are more important things in life to worry about lol
Than why are you posting about it.
no it was just a general remark to everyone getting really worked up about it because in the end getting worked up over something so irrelevant is well pointless. Again its a game its not like it matter. Again just wait until it becomes a price you would be willing to pay instead of just bitching about a company thats doing what any other company would be doing and is to make money. They are not there to do everything free or make people who are well acting like children happy, they need to stay in business to produce better games, this L4D2 could just be a way of recovering their budget to bring out more quality games.
but this is http://steamcommunity.com/groups/1e1us all over again
when they changed usd to euro last year they lost alot of customers
for me the change was 30% more EXPENSIVE for a game for crying out lound.
i wont buy ANYTHING unless they FIX THE PRICES...
and they do censor the post on steam forums, thats a fact, just type something about the USD to EURO convert, and it will be deleted or closed, and you might be banned to
It's not a case of being cheap like you keep saying. It's a case of being betrayed by a company the majority of PC gamers point to (bar blizzard) as the one company doing great things for this platform. And this isn't a case of "oh we had assumed free stuff because it was Valve, give us free stuff", it is a case of them PROMISING (as shown in the video) the exact content now being released separately.
It's people that have invested a great deal of time in the community, only to have it torn apart for a cash in.
It's very personal to many gamers, as the ONE company they thought was on their side has now been downranked to the likes of EA.
It hurts like a bitch, and thus we moan about it.
Obviously it isn't personal at all for you, and to you it is just a game. It would be nice however if you could understand the value others put on a single company being above the rest, and how crap they feel when their naivety is exposed.
Just a touch of unreality and melodrama in there, I think. Gaming is a huge part of my life - more so I'd wager than it is for anyone else on these forums, but even I wouldn't claim that Valve are betraying our trust or sabotaging communities or anything. It's a dickish move to be sure, but lets try and keep a little perspective. They are a company after all - this is what they do.
Maybe so, but they made promises and kept "assuring" us of things to come and didn't deliver, and still continue to say stuff is coming but refuses to say what or when, yet they're more than happy to let us know that a new game is coming for 50$ while we can't even play L4D properly sometimes due to the shitass lobby system, people quitting every 30secs from a game, major bugs, etc.
Can't exactly say it makes the whole new sequel after 6 months any easier to swallow -.-
l4d game out in november last year. l4d2 comes out in november this year.
I just wanted to emphasise the non monetary aspect. Even Gabe said "this move was against the character of the company." http://tinyurl.com/pv3f4u
But you're right, they are a company, and that is what they do. I just don't think a lot of people viewed them as such until now. Thus the melodrama and the line on naivety. Valve is my Monkey Island, I feel compelled to go on about them, however I think I'll leave this topic with this analogy I saw on a youtube comment (of all places);
"So today I went to Burger King...
...and ordered the number 4 combo. It seemed like a pretty good deal for the price. However, as I ordered it, the cashier told me that only the burger was currently available and I'd have to wait a little while to get my fries and drink. Strange, but whatever, I thought. I'll just munch on the burger until they're ready to give me the rest of my combo.
The burger itself was pretty good, and after a few minutes the cashier beckoned me over as expected. However when I got there, instead of handing me the rest of my food, she told me that I should now try out combo #7. I told her that I didn't want combo #7--I already bought combo #4 and all I wanted at this point were the things that were supposed to go along with it in the first place.
At this point she started arguing with me. She kept telling me that combo #7 actually contained more food than what was in the combo I originally ordered. When I told her that I just wanted my fries and drink, she claimed that I could get those by ordering combo #7. What the hell? Why would I want another meal when I had just eaten one (minus the promised side dishes, of course)? By some strange twist of logic, she seemed to think that mere availability of another, completely separate but similar combo meal somehow made up for the fact that I didn't get what was supposed to come with the one that I actually paid for.
Needless to say, I wasn't happy with the place. The strangest thing, though, was that some of the customers seemed to be perfectly fine with all of this and were actually arguing in the cashier's favor. "Why are you whining so much?" they asked. "I bought combo #4 just like you did, and now I'm delighted that I'll be able to get everything it contained--and more--with combo #7!" At that point I was simply at a loss."
at NO POINT was l4d advertised with the promise of ANYTHING concrete to come out for free afterwards - the only thing being offered at the price was the game in its current specification, and nothing more. only vague statements such as 'we'll be releasing free content' were made at the game's release, and legally these carry no weight whatsoever. you did not buy the product on the assurance that anything else would be supplied to you afterward, and any impression you got is just that - an impression. sure, it might seem misleading, but that's the legality of it.
It's worth pointing out that L4D HAS had free content come out for it too - Survival Mode, continued support, mod tools.
They've already said L4D1 is likely to be included in L4D2.
It's the ones who don't want to, or can't afford to upgrade, that will be left behind.
The HL team and the L4D team are entirely different groups of people - What L4D teams do is in no way related to what the HL team does (Or, as it looks, doesn't) do.
Want to bitch about Episode 3? Email Gabe Newell and see what he tells you.
Valve aren't about to go under because Episode 3 isn't released ASAP - They have steady income streams from Steam, and surprise surprise, other games. :/
On a related note: I emailed Chet Faliszek. Looking forward to his response, if I get one.
Chet is a lovely guy - it's really cool that the Valve people get back to their fans. I remember when I was in Uni and Marc Laidlaw responded to me about how to get started in writing for games.
The 'interviews' (they're really more like informal chats for the most part) I've seen him taking part in have painted him as a decent bloke, but hey. Only one way to find out for certain :D
It was valves intention with episode gaming to get games out sooner rather than later and they fell flat on their face on that one. I didn't say they would go broke making mindless games like L4D! they have plenty of money but too many irons in the fire if you know what I mean!!
You mean the content that was promised to be in the game at launch? Yea it was nice of them to add that, I mean, it was only promised to be at launch and then turns out it wasn't.. granted the SDK still isn't officially released even though the store page says "Source SDK" on it since before the release date
Then they also finally added the Stats promised since before launch recently, which was nice in a way.
In reality, the only content added was 1 gamemode and 1 map, of which nothing really substantial was made from, it's just a simple little mod of a couple cvar changes and an extra HUD element for the timer and that's more or less it.
So in reality, they delivered updates that should have been IN the game AT launch, though they're still missing the SDK.
In the meantime, bugs are still rampant and TF2 gets 2-3x as many bug fixes than L4D, and the lobby system is still an epic fail and horrendous.
Sorry, meant announced 6 months after L4D release.
I know what their intentions were (are?) - And I agree that they've royally buggered it up.
However, since you use very little punctuation I'm having trouble understanding your meaning using your posts.
EG: "hl3 who knows when that wil be done remember duke nukem." To me, that reads as "Who knows when HL3 will be out, remember what happened to Duke Nukem?" which I interpreted as "Valve are cocking around, not working that hard, 3D Realms did that and have since pretty much gone down the tubes - Is that what Valve are headed for?".
Valve, technically, had little involvement with L4D, as they purchased the studio that worked on the game (Turtle Rock Studios) ~9 months before release. Nine months in a development cycle that started ~ 14 months before isn't that long.
As for the 'too many irons in the fire' - I beg to differ. They have different teams working on different projects. Steam, HL, TF, L4D/L4D2 are the four main 'current' titles/software that they, presumably, have people working on. From what I can gather, the same team behind L4D are behind L4D2 - But I'm not 100% on that.
SDK is in beta at the moment, and should be out some time in the near future - Although, since the primary focus is, apparently, L4D2 the SDK could get temporarily tanked :/
The SDK was promised one week after launch in November. Recently Valve made another assertion that it would be out "couple weeks" after the Survivor update, and now they say "a week after E3" which would mean this week, and we've only got a few days left.
Either way, SDK or not, matchmaking does not support in any way shape or form custom content. So it's not like even if they did release it, the game would work, because it won't until they release the mythical "matchmaking 2.0" which will most likely be a giant piece of crap considering what a failure the current matchmaking is.
I'm not trying to defend their pathetic attempts at dlc, I just couldn't tell from your post if you were aware of its supposed launch sometime soon :p
At this stage, I think it's probably best to assume 90% of 'promised' L4D content is on a shelf somewhere.
sorry my grammer isn't up to your standards I thought a educated person could understand my meaning!!
Ah, yea, gotcha, sadly, I am aware of the dates (and all the ones they've missed) :(
A shelf.. somewhere.. mmm.. the L4D2 shelf :)
20k members in the group! woo
I'd also like to stop you right there. The Source SDK is what they said would come with L4D, it's the same one that's been out since HL2 (obviously updated with the L4D bits), it's everything you need to make your own mods and levels.
err... obviously you have no idea what you're talking about.
level design tools and an SDK are pretty much all you need to make a mod. an SDK is actually more than you usually get - usually it's just a crappy crippled scripting language. getting full access to the engine through an SDK is a godsend.
Dude that was awesome, I couldn't have said it better myself and man have I tried.
Im cool with that, but it must integrate seamlessly. I will just wait for a good sale to pick up part 2. Its just expensive as I have to buy one copy for myself and one for my wife.
As I see it, the game reached a finished state only with the release of the Survival pack. Also the mod tools are not fully released yet.
please don't multipost. if you agree with that post you're as retarded as the multiposting makes you look. that argument is bunk and see my immediate reply to it for the explanation.
That's ridiculous. The game as fully playable and multi-featured on first release, with Survival Mode not being even mentioned before the game release (and therefore can't be considered a required feature.) Survival Mode wasn't some big thing that made the game
Correct, it was a trivial bonus thrown into the Survival pack that completed the game and made up for the fact that Valve completely screwed up on their promises.
Game was still full of bugs, and still is, the Versus maps added were supposed to be in from the beginning. So the addition of one tinyass new map and a meh gamemode was hardly earth shattering.
They said everything from L4D1 will work in L4D2. The only problem with that is, those who bought L4D1 have now paid 50$ for a game, and if they want L4D2 will pay another 50$, when someone who doesn't have neither will pay 50$ for L4D2 and get the content of both games.
so whats your point? other then that your cheap? I spent 50.00 for L4D when it came out, I have had the game for about a year, have played many times and I think I got my moneys worth out of this game thats for sure and L4D2 will come out and I will spend 50 for that, I really dont see the point your trying to make, again other then being cheap. I mean there has been other games with similar setups about previous content working in the newer game, so thats nothing new, I guess if you bought L4D a month before L4D2 then well bummer but you still bought a fully functioning game either way, the missions that are in L4D wont be in L4D2 so there is that value, the content they are talking about is the mod community content working in both.
And sorry I don't have that much money to fart out of my ass like you do :) (j/k)
And no, it wasn't exactly quite the "fully functioning" game that was said to be at launch
again yes L4D1 stuff will work in L4D2 BUT L4D1 content like said missions WONT be included in L4D2 so unless you pirate the missions from L4D1 into your L4D2 game then the L4D1 still has value. Thats what I meant.
the game started, I was able to get online play against people, I was able to play trough all of the single player stuff so guess what it was fully functional, so quit bitching.
I hope you mean "Will have had".
I also take issue with your assumption that people not wanting to buy a second game are just 'cheap'.
Valve has a history of making promises regarding post-release support and updates. They earned the trust of their userbase - And they earned it well. Releasing a game within a year of the original is not in their game plan usually - Add to this the fact that L4D2 was started on in the back end of the November that L4D was released and you have a situation where gamers are wondering if the company has changed. On top of this, it seems that much of the same team are spending most of their time with L4D2 - Not the post-release support and content that was promised (evidenced by the ~7 month post-release gap, no properly released mod tools, and one piece of DLC).
At this stage, it's not that we feel cheap, but that we feel cheated. We were promised one thing, and have been offered something entirely different that we're expected to pay for. That's not to say that DLC should be free, but the promises made should be kept, regardless of pricing model. A sequel is not DLC, it's not post-release content, it's another game. It's most certainly not content in line with what was promised.
The fact that you have had no trouble with the game isn't a reason to say that everyone who're not as up for L4D2 as you are just whiney bitches. It strikes me that you weren't following the pre-release 'hype' or interviews, or at least, not as closely as some people.
There have been promises made that the post-release content will not be affected by the sequel - But it clearly has been. The business move is sound - The mindless vandalism of the userbase' wallet and trust is absolutely not - Which is what we're getting here.
How about you put some of this effort into things that matter versus things that are trivial at best.
Lol Im so done with this thread, I have better things to do.
Wow, you mean that thing on the otherside of my door has sun and women, like in pictures?
I never would have guessed, I guess having a passion for the gaming world means I must have missed out on all these fundamental things that happen only to people who don't spend time being interested in games and the way in which those companies work.
Oh.. Wait..
GZ, **** argument, next.
I guess you skipped the idea that each company needs a userbase and each userbase tends to have a reason for liking/continuing to support said company. Damn. How dare we like the fact that we can (could?) trust Valve. How dare we indeed.
..Games and their companies don't matter?
It's a multi-billion dollar industry. I'm not sure how much more 'mattering' it can do. I guess the hundreds of thousands of jobs mean jack schitte in the grand scheme of things. I guess entertainment aside from, let's face it, mediocre TV doesn't matter.
Ta ta. I hope you have fun in your imaginary world :/
After 200hrs' play for what I paid, and no WoW-style monthly fee, I'm cool with L4D2 costing something. I will however, go for the best price this time, with L4D there was a sense of supporting Valve and I only buy one Xmas game anyway. If it's business now, then VFM becomes an issue again and I might play the same waiting game as the boycotters.
As for whoever brought up the CSS comparison, there are loads of maps that never made it across to CSS and for the later maps that were fully converted, you had to wait 6-9 months at a time for Nuke and Prodigy to name two. Then they added the tracker map but the only other new "content" was that economy system everyone hated and ditched after a week - not all this DLC was worth waiting for, even if it was Valve and free! Maybe it's TF2 that's causing the slight rose-tinted specs view of the way Valve used to be, but it wasn't always great.
The same goes for Blue Shift in the original HL - I even preferred Gunman as a standalone game compared to BS (apt initials)- only good thing about it was the ending that fed into HL2.