BioShock copy protection to go?
Ken Levine has pledged to address the copy protection problems with BioShock.
The biggest problem PC gamers have had has been to do with the copy protection system placed on the game. The system, operated and created by Securom, requires gamers to have an online connection everytime they install the game and prevents players from having more than two concurrent installs. If you want to install the game a third time then you’ll have to uninstall a previous version.
Which would be annoying even if it worked well which, unfortunately, it doesn’t. Uninstalls are frequently not recognised while hardware failures further complicate matters. Trying to contact Securom as prompted often goes nowhere too and gamers can get stuck being endlessly redirected between Securom and 2K games.
The copy protection is something we’ll be investigating ourselves in the full technical review of BioShock which will be coming in the near future (these things take time, dammit!)
Still, don’t let it be said that the game developers are deaf to the pleas of gamers. Ken Levine, the main force behind BioShock and the Creative Director for the game, has left a post on the 2K forums explaining his view on the copy protection. The post promises to address the issue of copy protection, with many gamers hoping the system will be removed completely.
"I've followed up on the circular email with securom and we are working on this issue. I agree, it sucks, and we need to get that sorted.
I've been told by 2k that we will.
-Ken”
Will Securom go the way of the Dodo? We sure hope so, but what do you think? Is there a way to stop pirates and correctly protect legitimate customers? Send us your ideas in the forums.
Update: Apparently, Steam has completed an automatic update which promises to have “fixed the uninstall/reinstall issue with BioShock.”
Great, if you’ve bought the game over Steam. Not so good if you haven’t though hopefully a new patch could be doing the same thing to retail versions of the game shortly.
Update II: Apparently, 2K has now addressed the issue, though not as we may have hoped. Using what is called "Five by five plan", 2K will be issuing a 'revoke app' to address problems resulting from the original install limitations. The number of available installs will also be upped from two to five, with each computer capable of five reinstalls.
Our view? Still not good enough. I play my games over and over and I don't want to be limited to only five installs of the game, then have to buy a new PC to play it five more times. I want to have the game and be able to play and install it as much as I want - even Starforce wasn't this bad.
But that's just us - tell us what you think in the forums.
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Discuss in the forums Replytie the cdkey to an account, have a db of the acounts, you can login to your account only if the account is not currently online.
sure, it would require an internet connection for the full time you want to play...
but i think that would be an acceptable trade off in return for no rootkit, no install nr. limits and so on.
what are you smoking? that's not how it works.
Steam ?
basicaly yes...
sure, steam has some flaws...
but some of them where fixed, and some of them could be fixed...
but i think its the best way to protect games from being pirated without having to deal with such crap as we have now with bioshock.
For example: You have 5 PC's, you can install it on all 5. If you buy a 6th PC, you can't install it unless you un-install it on one of your other 5 PC's first.
Alternatively; if you only have 1 pc with Bioshock installed, and you do a significant hardware upgrade it counts as the second install. However, if you un-install the game before upgrading and then install it afterwards it doesn't use up the install.
This article seems a bit like all the fearmongering that's all over digg right now. Bad bit-tech, no treats for you!
Didn't that take less than a month of bitching in the forums and talk of the no-cd cracked exe? All i remember was that it was bloody quick and appreciated by all.
I personally wont be buying Bioshock until there's a fix, i dont care if its legitimate or not because i want this game but i dont want to be limited by hardware faults or forgetting to uninstall before a wipe.
You're talking theoretical. Have you checked the threads on 2K forums? Uninstalling doesn't give the installation activation 'credits' back in 90% of cases - it doesn't work.
I still won't be buying until it's completely removed, preferably with an official no-cd patch available.
Basically, yes its a pain, but I'd not want people to nick my work either so I'm happy to put up with it.
the way it is meant to work is annoying but can be put up with
but the system is broken and it doesnt work, http://www.pcgamer.com/ see the latest 2 entries in the pcgamer blog
you honestly think thats acceptable?
edit: also you're incredibly naive if you think this will stop a pirated version of the game being available within a week or so
all its done is piss off a LOT of paying customers and give the warez groups a challenge
Did I say that? Or are you reading my thoughts?
Your really weird because all you think about is dog testicles.
Of course it will get pirated, but it's never going to stop companies from trying to foil their efforts. And sure the whole thing is a bit messed up at the moment. But doesn't anyone remember how messed up HL2's release was? That got sorted pretty sharpish. I think its damn amazing how quick 2K are trying to deal with this.
So did the copy protection of bioshock actually prevented a copy? Hell no! The game was released fully cracked in the warezscene a few days before the official release, and available through "different sources". So did the evil me download a copy? No, because i am a strong supporter of good quality games. And i pay for a good game out of respect for the creators of the game.
Would i use a crack for nocd/dvd? If i would needed it, or it would make the game work on my system, yes i will...
in a kind of unrelated topic why do the new versions of punkbuster run all the time in the background on windows computers?
Oh, wait... you mean this happens at MORE THAN ONE company? Damn.
Anyways, I'm basically avoiding buying any games from now on that have any more copy protection on them than Oblivion did (read: none). I've had it be problematic several times in the past, and I'm well past sick of it. It's a stupid system that's left over from the eighties that doesn't work anymore. It's easy for Joe Blow to pirate stuff now if he wants to. Some people are happy to be honest, and some want to actually support the developers so they keep producing good content. People who won't pay for whatever reason are going to find a way to make it happen; so it's best to not irritate those who will.
Always thought that the "Rights Management" part of DRM sounded like something straight out of 1984
Unfortunately as like music, films, books and pretty much every game before it, you never own it, just license it from the entity with the copyright for it. By installing the game and accepting the EULA you are agreeing to there terms, how ever restrictive they are.
Excuse my ignorance of the specifics, but doesnt securom offer a service like M$ does with office and XP where you can request a new activation key if yours has expired through reinstallation?
I know its a pain in the ass, but we have all managed so far to deal with the hassle of software activation, does it really matter if games also start deploying this form of protection?
It seems to be the easiest form of copy protection going, imagine if you had a different hardware dongle for each peice of software you had to activate, it would for me take up about 12 usb ports just to run my sofware. if you had a system which used a single stick but allowed multiple keys to be stored, then it would never work due to differing copy protection systems and versions of the systems in use. Although it may be bypassable like all forms of software protection it provides enough of a hinderence to most to purchase legit licenses. And to be fair nothing has really ever worked to stop wholesale piracy of games. e.g. copy protection thats bypassable with marker pen, or a really old cd or dvd drive, or serial numbers. Or you have to make the game rely on central servers and online play so you can charge subscription for the games
At the end of the day i fail to understand the mentality of people who complain about having to pay for something they will enjoy. fair enough steal boring/work related software if you want, but not games
i got a fancy new metal case, theres something in it.... it's called BioShock....
i hope some others can control their urges better than me and dont buy it though due to the stupid limitations....
also "you're"
Also: So? I make spuling mashtake in teh webernets. Go think about yor dog's testicles.
Putting copy-protection on a games that can prevent legitimate users enjoyment is completely stupid.
To put it simply:-
Games with Copy-Protection
Pros: none
Cons: Hinders legit users often driving them to virus/malware-ridden cracks, increases production costs which is passed onto legit users, doesn't prevent copying.
Games without Copy-Protection
Pros: legit users can play without issue, novices users likely to experience less issues
Cons: Makes the game easy to copy
When will they learn that annoying the paying userbase is like putting your wedding tackle in a lions mouth while simultaneously flicking his love-spuds with a wet towel?
I'm going to speak out for the illegal portion of gamers, who seem to be ashamed. I'm not; I agree that some ***** in a tracksuit copying a game, running off two thousand copies and selling them at the high street for next-to-nothing is a serious crime. I hate it, not least because the copied products - be they games, films or music - are always inferior and less enjoyable.
That said, I don't consider it a crime on the same level if I take a copy of one of my games round to my friend's house and install it on his machine. Sorry: I just don't. It's only a crime on paper: in reality, I'm only stealing about 0.2 pence from each employee who worked on the game, and I think they'll forgive me. If not, I'll remind them how much money Value Added Tax steals from THEM every time they buy anything. (Clue: it's more than 0.2 pence.)
It's what I call sociable piracy, and I'm all in favour. Even if a thousand people do it, the profit margins still have these companies covered by thousands and thousands of pounds. Securom will eventually stop me committing sociable piracy, but - and here's the thing - it will NOT stop the tracksuited ***** on the market stall. Hence, I am against it.
Stupidity. They honestly think they can use securom to stop pirates. These guys are good, they are determined and with enough of them working on a product like this, its just a matter of time.
The problem now is i would have actually bought a legit copy of the game, it seems amazing but seeing how much hassle i could go through if i did that - im more tempted to pirate it because i dont want what happened to the guy on pcgamer.com to happen to me where i spend hard earned cash on a game that wont even work.
I think I'll go cry in a corner now.
Punkbuser A and B service
vista is why its there now
when you use punkbuster it had to have full admin rights so it can check for cheats so if you started the game in vista and not give it admin you get kicked from an server Punkbuster A Allways runs unless you set it to manual service start as it should be any way
your going to start seening alot more programs that need admin rights do this more offen
------------ on topic -------------
surcrom v7 sucks not even going to buy the game untill its removed the activation should be done After the game has been installed as well what happens if company goes bust (probly unlikey) whow are we going to install it as we cant patch the game to remove it so(that allso goes for World in Conflict as well if thay have it in there unless theres an no cd as well)
but securom is really done a good act here (note the sarcasm)
so, they think that by overdoing the copy protection is going to prevent piracy ???
wow .... good logic there (note more sarcasm)
Instead, of me actually purchasing the retail game, i will opt for a p*rated copy which im almost
sure will have no issues being reinstalled over and over .....
GREAT JOB SECUROM :|
Until recently my plans were to make another computer with Vista 64bit, 4GB of memory and 8800 GTX but now that secureROM officially makes Bioshock unusable for the PC the old Pentium 4 is looking like it will stay around for a couple more years. SecureROM is a vicious parasite and if you use it on your games and your not getting any of my money to support your company.
BTW, did you know
a) you cant completely uninstall securom ? (at least without extreme difficulty, and its not official either)
b) the bioshock demo comes with securom
Come on 2K - way to fck up a good game <_<
I'm still not buying it till this crap is removed, even then, this whole ordeal just leaves a bad taste in my mouth, i don't know if i want to support such a bunch of a*******
I supose it will all be resolved by then but its just damned annoying at this stage, its a good job that most PC users have been accustomed to having to patch games straight out of the box these days and I reckon that the only way that 2K will get away with this is because they have such a special game on their hands. if it was anything less than stunning them they might have a real problem if the gaming community shunned the game because of the Securom issues.
Reported here how to uninstall SecureROM rootkit:
http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6948
Truly a pity 2K decided to go this route. Bioshock could have been the 2007 GOTY.
So yeah, it's pretty much testicals.
Finally! Someone from the industry with the guts to defend the legitimate users: http://imageshack.us
Editorial: Sadly boycotting Bioshock
I am disheartened not to buy a copy of Bioshock. I want to buy it, I loved the demo, but I regret now installing the demo software.
Argh, no, you mean "I couldn't care less". I don't know what idiot made that original perversion but it's bloody annoying.
Something silly like that anyway.
So what do you do if you have no internet, some places in europe still dont have net everywhere, so the only choice iz Pirate copy
I lolled.
*chortle* aaahhh Red Dwarf is the best...
Way to go...
On the other hand, it's working. We got a Game of the Year here that has yet to be cracked!
Well, SecuROM gets flagged as a false positive by Rootkit Revealer:
http://forum.sysinternals.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=11253&KW=securom
Still malware, though. If for anything else, the pain to remove it from the system.
Might get it eventually when the patch with the added activations gets out.
They are just trying to bring it to peoples attention though
I can see why you shouldn't be able to delete the keys, if you have a demo of something that expires, there needs to be a record somewhere
However, i don't understand why the bioshock demo comes with securom, why are they protecting a free game anyone can d/l ? its completely pointless
I think 2K have made 1 too many mistakes, and now they have a lot of people on their back
However, IMO, this whole rootkit crap that everyone's coming out with now about securom, is complete tosh, odds are you already have the damn thing for some other game, why its suddenly getting pinned on 2K i don't know
Edit:
@impar - about that gamespot editorial stuff
i was about to write this guy is an idiot, but he actually does make a couple of good points, and i do largely agree with him
The one point i would give on this whole DRM crap though
"However, retail packaging has no notification that DRM software is installed along with the copy of Bioshock. In the financial world, lack of disclosure is a crime, and this type of situation is likely to bring about the need for industry oversight."
Yes i think that's right, there should be a warning that DRM software will be installed
However, i still do not believe securom is a rootkit, its not even close
Firstly, it doesn't actually hide itself from the user, you have to show hidden folders, but half of the folders on windows are hidden anyway - is windows a rootkit ?? (OK this is stupid but i just think this whole issue is becoming retarded)
Secondly, securom does not act in anywhere near the same fassion as a rootkit, rootkits modify important parts of your OS, so that you can no longer find them, when you goto the process list, it will be a process list shown by the rootkit, but hiding the rootkits process
when you go into explorer, again it will be the rootkits explorer, hiding the rootkits files from you
The problem with rootkits is, they take over major parts of your OS, and as such, your OS is now lieing to you in effect, you can no longer trust it, and the only way to truly and safely get rid of a real rootkit, is to re-install windows
Firstly, you cant hide ANYTHING from the OS, the os is what runs it, it is the last link between the hardware, and as such it has to know everything
However, what a rootkit does is modify the outputs to you, the user, from the OS, so that what its telling you is no longer the truth
The OS still knows whats going on fine, but your frontend is buggered
This rootkit revealer thing is bogus as well, rootkit revealer looks for things that shouldn't be there and flags them, characters like * are not really allowed in the registry, and are therefore flagged
What rootkit revealer is actually trying to do, it uses something like regedit, and asks what a key is
It then goes and gets the registry file (i believe), opens it up, and finds out what it is (without using the OS) it then compares the 2 keys, if they are the same, the OS was telling the truth, If they are different, the OS is lying to you
A real rootkit, made properly for the OS your running on, can technically be completely invisible, and technically it would be possible to hide one forever, without a user ever knowing
However, that would be pointless, and a rootkit is usually there to do something for the hacker who placed it, and things like keyloggers have to send packets off to the hacker, at which point you can see this odd, improper traffic
But don't kid yourselves people, real rootkits are a complete b****** to find, and rootkitreveler isn't a surefire way of finding anything
Now, i hate securom as much as the next person, but i like to stick to facts, and what is being spread at the moment is complete crap, its scare tactics, and its being latched onto the real problems with bioshock
If you have a problem with the way securom operates (making itself hard to delete) take it up with securom, its not 2K's fault, and its unlikely they could even fix it anyway
What? It's YOUR PC. You own it, you own the hard disk, you can do whatever the hell you want with it including delete registry keys.
And to answer why demo's come with anti-piracy tools, it's generally to prevent the exe or data files of the demo itself being cracked open which can aid with cracking the main game.
There has to be a permanent registry key to keep track of that
If you delete (or modify) the registry key, you get another trail, and you are breaking the license agreement
as far as i can tell, things like that pretty much only serve to try and circumvent the license agreement
They could do it another way, what if you had an account with them (like steam) then they can easily keep track of if you've demo'd it, but then systems like steam get yelled about too
IMO, having to have the CD in the drive is a pain in the ass, and i use daemon tools just to stop using my originals anyway
I don't know how you compromise between consumer satisfaction and a all out buffet for crackers
I will say though, this activation crap is way past the line
Again its only served to piss everyone off anyway
So you've broken the licence agreement, its then up to them to chase you down legally not to damage or modifiy your computer. Companies have to do a bit of risk assessment and factor in that some people will not buy their product, they will steal it, and realise that not every download will be a sale and not every person using their software would be a sale. Personally i wish people would start only using software they've paid for, it would do one of two things, drop the price or drive up the usage of open source software which would benefit every one.
There wouldn't have been SecuROM in Rapture....
Actually, that's not true. Objectivism places no restrictions on a business, they can do as they please within the law. But in an objectivist paradise no-one would buy such a product.
Was gonna say we can do that now, but then I suppose any company would be free to make an exact copy of the game without the copy protection? Therefore that company would get the sales while the other loses out.
Uh-oh...
http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8703
I don't believe Rand did much on copyright, it was a fairly new industry when she did the bulk of her writing, and not something she covered in any of the works I've read by her. But chances are that the idealised Objectivist paradise would include some extremely stringent "intellectual property" laws and that, in fact, no-one would be free to copy anything.
Ha ha! And Big Brother spake, and lo, the issue did close.
Opened up first, to my knowledge, in Day of The Tentacle actually. If you used Cousin Eds PC as Bernard then you could access the whole of Maniac Mansion, the prequel to DOTT and play through the original full game.
Of course, doubtless there were game-in-game things in RPGs long before that. Its hard to think of a decent RPG which doesn't feature a gambling sub-game at some point.
Ah not so fast Mr. Martin. In DOTT, when you accessed Ed's PC, all it really did was shut down DOTT and load up Maniac Mansion. IIRC, there was no way back from Maniac Mansion to DOTT, you had to reload a saved game, hardly a game within a game. And those old RPG's gambling games weren't exactly seperate games either, just mini games really, of which huge numbers of games had.
Running the original Doom on a monitor inside a level in the Doom 3 engine... now that really is a game within a game.
The next Geometry wars will be in PGR4
System Shock 2; it had the PiG gameboy thing which you used to hack things with and which you could play games on, like Overworld Zero, an RPG on which you could save progress etc.
Also, the Lander game on the PDA in The Dig. That was good too.
PGR2 had geometry wars, PGR3 had Geometry wars: retro Evolved demo