BioShock is single player only

I'm still looking forward to playing Bioshock, I actually only thought it was single player originally. My multiplayer fun will be reserved for UT2k7.

I am honestly glad. Often times games get very dumbed down in the SP aspect to free up development time and money for adding the MP component. I am satisfied that the devs are devoting %100 of their time to making an excellent SP game.

Likewise, UT2K7 will be my MP game this year.

I do have to agree that it sould (hopefully) boost the quality of single player however I am dissapointed at the lack of even co-operative play, as to me this is becoming a deciding factor as to if I actually purchase a game or not.

I have no problem with a game being developed purely as a single player experience - I've never understood the push that all games should be multiplayer enabled (although I agree theres a crying lack of co-op games). What does concern me is the part about it being developed for the Xbox360 and the PC being a port of it - I can't help worrying about games like Deus Ex 2 and Thief 3 that were well and truely shafted by the same development paradigm...

Excellent. All my favourite games are one player only, and lack MP. The last time I heard people saying that multiplayer would compromise storyline I was reading a preview for Deus Ex.

What does concern me is the part about it being developed for the Xbox360 and the PC being a port of it - I can't help worrying about games like Deus Ex 2 and Thief 3 that were well and truely shafted by the same development paradigm...

I don't think theres any point in worrying, look at oblivion - the trend is here to stay. We'll get inferior interfaces, less detail, less complication(in a bad way) and less rich world and storylines thanks due to things being coded for Xbox360.

Multiplayer... eh? Would that even work for a game like Bioshock?

I think it would totally ruin the atmosphere of the game.

For games like these it is best they don't have a multi player aspect. It would just end up like every other multi player game, but different weapons. If a game is going to be multi player, allot of effort has to go into it, which means a larger cost, which in turn means less money spent on single player.
I for one think there needs to be more single player games.
I agree with specofdust I see the trend of console first then port to PC. Look at Morrowind compared to Oblivion, sure Oblivion looks better and has a few extra things added in, but nothing that couldn't be done with Morrowind. With Oblivion the leveling system was dumbed down a bit, and there were less classes, no short sword skill and such.
Well once the game comes out I will see if the port is any good.

"We'll get inferior interfaces, less detail, less complication(in a bad way) and less rich world and storylines thanks due to things being coded for Xbox360"

I think that's a very negative and dumb statement. Yes the power of the 360 will be well surpassed by PCs within a couple of years, but a simplified interface can help lots and doesn't always harm the game. I disagree that there will be less detail and you cannot say that you'll have a less rich world or storyline at all.

Deus Ex 2 had loads of problems but that was not just to do with the dual platform and is not fair to use as an example as there have been lots of successful game that are great on PC and Console, KOTOR for example.

Originally Posted by specofdust
I don't think theres any point in worrying, look at oblivion - the trend is here to stay. We'll get inferior interfaces, less detail, less complication(in a bad way) and less rich world and storylines thanks due to things being coded for Xbox360.

I think this is an obsurd comment. If you're a kb&m junkie with no ability to adapt to a controller, then yet, it will have an inferior interface, but many people love Gears of War that would just be FAR to easy with a kb&m.

The world can easily be as rich, there's ooodles of power available that they haven't fully tapped into yet and they can REALLY ramp up the detail because PC developers HAVE to support really low end PCs and cards because a lot of people don't upgrade.

Look at how much they've got out the PS2, and think how much potential the 360 still has?

I just hope they make a decent "in the box" single player game, not an 8 hour jobbie for £35, then sell you the rest of the game on live.

Oh come on dude, you should know as much as the rest of us that we see things like 8 hotbar slots instead of 10 in Oblivion because the Xbox suits 8. We've also seen a dumbing down on some potentially amazing games. Deus Ex's sequal was made with consoles in mind, and we got s**t. Morrowinds sequal was made with consoles in mind, and we got a far far less rich experience in many ways than morrowind. CoD's sequal was made with consoles in mind, and we got s**t.

Console games are dumbed down, less content rich, and more action orientated. I'm not saying the console has physical limitations, or even power related ones(right now at least) - just that when games are designed for consoles they're designed for a stupider, less interested, less dedicated market. This is clear just from the dumbing down that's occured in so many potentially great sequals when they've been made for console also. The same devs who've made fantastic games screw the game up in important and often critical ways. That is why I dislike the fact that this game is being devved for Xbox also, and that's why I hate it when potentially great games are designed with consoles in mind.

I don't play Oblivion, I wouldn't know, but I accept that point you make as absoultely valid and something I didn't previously consider: like in Star Trek Legacy you can only have a fleet of 4 ships because that's the limitation of the controller.

If it's made for a SPECIFIC platform, whether it's a console or PC then it can turn out fantastic: Halo (1), FF series (mostly), numerous PC games that were PC only. Despite the fact that platform exclusivity is the devils work it allows developers to concentrate on a single game code for longer.

CoD sequal was because it was the same thing as before and we've been playing WW2 games since 1998.

It's true about the less mentally endowed market: how well would DoA beach volley ball play on the PC? One hand to "play", one hand for pleasure.

But as a rule of thumb the gaming industry is more about profit than gaming as we seem to progess through this new decade, but at the same time our expectations are getting higher.

It also depends if the game is made better by the console limitation or is better on a PC. Sometimes simpler is easier, than having a keyboard.

Originally Posted by Bindibadgi
I don't play Oblivion, I wouldn't know, but I accept that point you make as absoultely valid and something I didn't previously consider: like in Star Trek Legacy you can only have a fleet of 4 ships because that's the limitation of the controller.

If it's made for a SPECIFIC platform, whether it's a console or PC then it can turn out fantastic: Halo (1), FF series (mostly), numerous PC games that were PC only. Despite the fact that platform exclusivity is the devils work it allows developers to concentrate on a single game code for longer.

It's true about the less mentally endowed market: how well would DoA beach volley ball play on the PC? One hand to "play", one hand for pleasure.

But as a rule of thumb the gaming industry is more about profit than gaming as we seem to progess through this new decade, but at the same time our expectations are getting higher.

It also depends if the game is made better by the console limitation or is better on a PC. Sometimes simpler is easier, than having a keyboard.

Post-Oblivion, when I'm buying a new game, I've decided to do a lot more homework on it before I splash the cash.

As much as I hate the mini-microsoft that is EA, at least they developed separate versions of BF2 and even had the honesty to name them slightly differently. I'll be vary wary of the next Elder Scrolls game - it's the dumbed-down UI and gameplay (ie. the levelling fiasco) that ruined the game.

As much as I have been looking forward to Bioshock, if it's another dumbed-down port, I'll have to give it a miss on principle.

It won't be so bad in a few years time when gradually console users start clambering for a kb&m interface, but until then I remain wary.

At least Oblivion was moddable, which saved it for me. But some effort has to be put in to making it the game it should have been on the PC, rather than a PC port of a console game. ;) A couple of UI alterations, some enhanced texture packs and Oscuro's Oblivion Overhaul, and it was everything it should have been. :D (But I admit that they should not have been necessary...)

Anyway.

I'm a bit worried about this game (Bioshock) because of the 'it's a console game first' attitude, and that is what murdered Deus Ex 2 so completely. However, if they've got people actually making an effort at making the PC version actually be a PC game, rather than a half-hearted 'screw the money out of them' port, I will remain cautiously optimistic.

OOO 1.3 saved Oblivion, so I did get to enjoy the rest of the game. But my stance is that publishers shouldn't rely on PC mod-builders to rescue their games. I actually think it's a concious decision they take; we'll make the kiddies plastic console version first, make a half-hearted attempt to port across to PC, but then we can release the construction sets to the modders and they can finish it off.

It's just lazy, greedy or both.

The cross platform development tools that Microsoft has created has made developing for both Xbox 360 and PC much easier than multi-platform development has been in the past.

It's not that though Tim, a game for the PC will have a completely different control style and responsiveness compared to a Console game.

Originally Posted by DougEdey
It's not that though Tim, a game for the PC will have a completely different control style and responsiveness compared to a Console game.

That's why Irrational Games has a dedicated team making sure that the PC version lives up to PC gamer's expectations. They're redesigning gameplay mechanics, interface and whatever else needs changing to make sure the PC game is a PC game and not just another lame ass port.

A couple of UI alterations, some enhanced texture packs and Oscuro's Oblivion Overhaul, and it was everything it should have been.

See, I disagree. What about cities being locked into seperate zones? Think a PC with 2GB of ram really needs that to be done? Morrowind certainly didn't need to do that. That is fixable by mods, but only with a serious performance hit.

Worse still, things like a spear skill/weapon class and more realistic armour will never be in the game, because basicly that sorta stuff needs to be hardcoded in. Neither will the 8 slot hotbar be solved, again, it's central to the coding of the game. It cannot be changed by a mere mod.

The technology isn't the main problem though, the userbase is. Console gamers are a different breed, and what makes them happy isn't what makes us hardcore Deux Ex or Elder Scrolls fans happy. So long as games are being made for console gamers, they're not being made for us. Making both groups totally pleased with the same product isn't possible I do not think.

Originally Posted by Tim S
That's why Irrational Games has a dedicated team making sure that the PC version lives up to PC gamer's expectations. They're redesigning gameplay mechanics, interface and whatever else needs changing to make sure the PC game is a PC game and not just another lame ass port.

Tim, we heard you first time. The point is we've heard all this before. If they don't bork the PC game with console-itis then I'll buy it. I'm not bothered that they *actually* ported from console; I'm bothered whether they do a good job or not. And the cynic in me is worried... but I'll reserve judgement until June.

Originally Posted by specofdust
See, I disagree. What about cities being locked into seperate zones? Think a PC with 2GB of ram really needs that to be done? Morrowind certainly didn't need to do that. That is fixable by mods, but only with a serious performance hit.

Worse still, things like a spear skill/weapon class and more realistic armour will never be in the game, because basicly that sorta stuff needs to be hardcoded in. Neither will the 8 slot hotbar be solved, again, it's central to the coding of the game. It cannot be changed by a mere mod.

The technology isn't the main problem though, the userbase is. Console gamers are a different breed, and what makes them happy isn't what makes us hardcore Deux Ex or Elder Scrolls fans happy. So long as games are being made for console gamers, they're not being made for us. Making both groups totally pleased with the same product isn't possible I do not think.

Most PCs have around 512meg ram or less, and DX9 offers quite a limitation to many things in Oblivion. It's a cost of development : percieved benefit. Look at what else Oblivion enabled that you could change on the PC though: DOZENS of options.

But also the cynic in people may look at it as only having 4 options, but that may have been a concious decision by the developers as a game feature, whether it was right or wrong.

Originally Posted by specofdust
See, I disagree. What about cities being locked into seperate zones? Think a PC with 2GB of ram really needs that to be done? Morrowind certainly didn't need to do that. That is fixable by mods, but only with a serious performance hit.

Worse still, things like a spear skill/weapon class and more realistic armour will never be in the game, because basicly that sorta stuff needs to be hardcoded in. Neither will the 8 slot hotbar be solved, again, it's central to the coding of the game. It cannot be changed by a mere mod.

The technology isn't the main problem though, the userbase is. Console gamers are a different breed, and what makes them happy isn't what makes us hardcore Deux Ex or Elder Scrolls fans happy. So long as games are being made for console gamers, they're not being made for us. Making both groups totally pleased with the same product isn't possible I do not think.

I'm happy with the city-as-separate-zone issue; it's a technical expediency, and we've seen from the mods that undo it, that it was quite a wise move.

I'm not too bothered about the lack of a spear either[though why they call an axe a 'blunt' weapon is beyond me!]. Others would argue about the lack of crossbows/pikes/throwing knives/quarterstaffs/etc 'til kingdom come.

Whereas the 8-slot hotbar is a classic console-driven bork that should never had happened.

You say that you can't please both camps at the same time. Well you can if you relax your view of a product. Battlefield 2 and Battlefield 2: Modern Combat are PC and console versions of the same product, but they were largely developed separately. At least they don't share an identical code base, although many aspects of the development were common. The console players are happy with their game, and the PC gamers are happy with theirs. The PC gamers would choke if the saw the console version and the console gamers would be lost on the PC. An EA/DICE are still rolling in it.

Whereas Bethesda tried to save cash (ie increase profits) at the cost of quality. I think it will come back to bite them on the arse when TES V comes out. I don't want to see Irrational do the same.

I just hope that enough PC Gamers will do as I do and leave bad console-ports alone.

Fingers crossed for BioShock....

Originally Posted by cjmwork2
Tim, we heard you first time. The point is we've heard all this before. If they don't bork the PC game with console-itis then I'll buy it. I'm not bothered that they *actually* ported from console; I'm bothered whether they do a good job or not. And the cynic in me is worried... but I'll reserve judgement until June.

Of course, and that remains to be seen - I've seen the game running and it looks promising. There's not a lot more to say at the moment though, because I haven't really seen a lot of the things Irrational has talked about and more importantly, I've not played the game.

Originally Posted by Tim S
Of course, and that remains to be seen - I've seen the game running and it looks promising. There's not a lot more to say at the moment though, because I haven't really seen a lot of the things Irrational has talked about and more importantly, I've not played the game.

It's funny. Thinking back to when I watched the demo vids, I remembered noticing how awkard the movement was, which is symptomatic of using a game controller. I should have smelled a rat then... :D

Originally Posted by DougEdey
My multiplayer fun will be reserved for UT2k7.

your not the only one m8 , just wish they would release a demo soon :'(

Originally Posted by Neogumbercules
I am honestly glad. Often times games get very dumbed down in the SP aspect to free up development time and money for adding the MP component. I am satisfied that the devs are devoting %100 of their time to making an excellent SP game....

Quoted for truth

As for the PC versus console debate: I have a friend who used to Love Star Wars Galaxies (had 2 accounts and probably played several hours every day) - Until they completely revamped the whole thing for the PS2 - It's just not the same game anymore. He's recently gotten back into it but still says it lacks much of it's former depth and flexibility.

i really hope they don't make another Deus ex 2...

I used to console game... and still do (PS2 f.t.w). For racing games a console is where it's at unless you're a hardcore player with a steering wheel, and you can get that for a console anyway... but for everything else PC games are just better. Mods, easy online access, different levels of PC power to allow a broad market, way more buttons to input commands, downloadable updates, so if the game needs fixing you aren't screwed like you are on a console. But PCs aren't as common. You don't hear about the R600 on the news, but you hear about the PS3/Wii for months before they're released. People just want a plug and play game, and that's a console. With commercial PCs you see Core2Duo all over, 2GB of RAM!!11!!1 But then it's got integrated graphics or a 7300LE, and the everpopular laptops don't have much gaming power, so most people would have to upgrade, and to most that means a whole new PC, they aren't going to. There goes half the market, there goes half the developers interest in us.

one of my favourite games is system shock 2 which seems very similar to bioshock, there was a patch to system shock which added co-op support it was quiet interesting sharing items and training in different areas together you were a fighting force to be reckoned with. It did however render the story line pretty pointless as when some key plot element is being revealed you have your co-op buddy jumping around like a fool waving a wrench around.

I was going to get bioshock on the pc but now i will end up getting it for the 360, ports never seem to work for the pc also i dont think my system could run it at 1920x1200.

Welcome Boo!

Serious? A co-op patch for SS2?? OMFG. I downloaded and updated the skins for it one time, that was pretty awesome.

Bioshock looks nothing like SS2, although I've yet to play it, but having monkeys screaming over the engine hum in deep space seems far scarier than cookie cutter little girls like in the video.

Yeah system shock 2 got co-op support in version oh .. 1.1 or 1.01 ? something like that, it felt like it only just missed launch. The netcode was a tiny bit dodgy though, not to mention if I remember right there was no browser, just a direct "connect to IP address" type deal.

It was still a lot of fun though :)