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Apple iPad 2 enters production

Apple iPad 2 enters production

Has the iPad 2 gone into production? Apple is being predictably tight lipped.

Apple fans rejoice; the Wall Street Journal has today reported that the follow-up to Apple's surprisingly successful iPad tablet has entered production, courtesy of long time production partner Foxconn.

Specifications of the new device are still very much shrouded in conjecture and rumour, although a dual-core A5 ARM-chip looks set to be at the heart of whatever Apple has planned. The WSJ's sources also claim that the new device will be thinner and lighter than its predecessor, and that it will also have more RAM and a more powerful graphics chip.

However, Apple itself is being predictably tight lipped regarding any information about its new product. What we can safely predict is that Steve Jobs won't be unveiling the new iPad to the Apple crazed public, as he's temporarily left the company on a medical leave of absence.

Since the iPad's release last January, Apple has shipped a remarkable 14.8 million of the devices, leaving the rest of the industry struggling to catch up. Tablet PCs were one of the biggest trends at CES 2011 last month, but few, if any, of the Android devices we saw were able to match the iPad in terms of features.

What's more, with Google's tablet-friendly Android 3.0 still unreleased, the iPad follow-up could move the goalposts yet again, further enhancing Apple's dominance in the tablet market.

Getting the folding chair ready to camp outside the Apple store for an iPad 2? Waiting to see if Android 3.0 has what it takes to compete? Still struggling to see the point of tablets? Either way, let us know in the forums.

130 Comments

Discuss in the forums Reply
wuyanxu 9th February 2011, 16:33 Quote
Android 3.0 of course will be good on tablets. it has re-designed interface for tablets.

iPad will only be good if they re-design the 2008 interface into something more functional. cannot live without jailbroken multi-tasking tweaks on my iPhone 4.
BRAWL 9th February 2011, 16:46 Quote
I would prepare this thread for a near Engadget troll-fest that may occur!

I'll be honest, never got the hype about the iPad? What's so special about a giant iPhone that doesn't have a microphone or speaker system?
kempez 9th February 2011, 16:47 Quote
Whatever Apple make they'll sell by the bucket-load. It looks good, feels great and is incredibly easy to use. As per usual, saying that it must have an update is a non-starter. What us geeks 'need' is not what the general numpty public want.

I would be disappointed if it has a lower resolution, especially as I fully expect the 'droid 3.0 tablets to come out firing.
M7ck 9th February 2011, 16:54 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRAWL
I would prepare this thread for a near Engadget troll-fest that may occur!

I'll be honest, never got the hype about the iPad? What's so special about a giant iPhone that doesn't have a microphone or speaker system?

It has a speaker.
wuyanxu 9th February 2011, 16:58 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by M7ck
It has a speaker.
and soon, a microphone and 2 cameras.


btw, my post above was in reply to article's "are you waiting for android 3" question.
Unknownsock 9th February 2011, 17:38 Quote
Oh god, now i have to see more people showing the ipad of on the bus.
jrs77 9th February 2011, 17:40 Quote
Will be interesting to see it's final specs.

I'm still waiting for a 11" 16:9 tablet with 720p resolution and some better connectivity aka native USB and HDMI port. Something the size of a MacBookAir, but without the keyboard and even better battery-life would be great.
mclean007 9th February 2011, 17:48 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by M7ck
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRAWL
I would prepare this thread for a near Engadget troll-fest that may occur!

I'll be honest, never got the hype about the iPad? What's so special about a giant iPhone that doesn't have a microphone or speaker system?

It has a speaker.
And obviously it's more like a giant iPod Touch than a giant iPhone, given it isn't a phone. I didn't much see the point at first but I'm getting tempted now as the number of decent apps for the iPad is pretty immense. I won't be buying a 1st gen one though, definitely waiting for the 2nd gen, which looks to have most or all of the following pretty much nailed on:

(1) front (and probably back) facing camera(s) for Facetime
(2) "Retina" display for double the pixel pitch of the 1st gen
(3) dual core processor
(4) more RAM
(5) better GPU

I think if the price doesn't change too much it will be pretty compelling to be honest. Slimmer and lighter doesn't much bother me - the current device is already pretty slim and light. I could very well be persuaded by a 32GB Wi-Fi & 3G 2nd gen iPad if the speculation turns out to be right. Just hope it's out by the time I'm in ths USA in April so I can pick one up cheaper, as the UK/US price differential does grate a bit.
greigaitken 9th February 2011, 17:48 Quote
i dont see these useful for any laptop / phone alternatives besides games.
the form though would be good in a 6-7 inch version thats integreated with all your other stuff in your house. use it to put music or movies on / browse telly. perhaps even the kettle or control the house heating. they're not leave your house portable but take around your house portable.
SteveU 9th February 2011, 18:50 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by mclean007
Quote:
Originally Posted by M7ck
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRAWL
I would prepare this thread for a near Engadget troll-fest that may occur!

I'll be honest, never got the hype about the iPad? What's so special about a giant iPhone that doesn't have a microphone or speaker system?

It has a speaker.
And obviously it's more like a giant iPod Touch than a giant iPhone, given it isn't a phone. I didn't much see the point at first but I'm getting tempted now as the number of decent apps for the iPad is pretty immense. I won't be buying a 1st gen one though, definitely waiting for the 2nd gen, which looks to have most or all of the following pretty much nailed on:

(1) front (and probably back) facing camera(s) for Facetime
(2) "Retina" display for double the pixel pitch of the 1st gen
(3) dual core processor
(4) more RAM
(5) better GPU

I think if the price doesn't change too much it will be pretty compelling to be honest. Slimmer and lighter doesn't much bother me - the current device is already pretty slim and light. I could very well be persuaded by a 32GB Wi-Fi & 3G 2nd gen iPad if the speculation turns out to be right. Just hope it's out by the time I'm in ths USA in April so I can pick one up cheaper, as the UK/US price differential does grate a bit.

Sorry but it's been confirmed that the resolution will be exactly the same as the original iPad. The only screen differences are that it's thinner/lighter and will have a better coating to reduce glare. The retina display will most likely be the iPad 3 with a 3D display touted for the iPad 4 in 2013.
eddtox 9th February 2011, 19:03 Quote
Yay, where do I sign up to get one :D
Jehla 9th February 2011, 19:05 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRAWL
I would prepare this thread for a near Engadget troll-fest that may occur!

I'll be honest, never got the hype about the iPad? What's so special about a giant iPhone that doesn't have a microphone or speaker system?

It's all about the services. The reason I plan on getting one as a netbook replacement (it recently died) are as follows:

1) always on long battery life
2) Air video (and alike) lets you stream your videos from your PC (even if they are .AVI)
3) TVcatchup.com streams all the TV channels you care about one min after their live broadcast.
4) Games for IoS devices are generally better than trying to play a PC game on a netbook.

It's really just a portable media consumption device. And from the little bit of use I've had on one the word processor is competent. It's worth noting though I have a laptop instead favouring a Decent PC and a ultra portable low power device.
the_kille4 9th February 2011, 19:10 Quote
For me I have no use for 3G since the vast majority of places that I go to already has a free WiFi spot so... i will just stick with my archos 101 till they make one based on honeycomb... it would have a much better interface than a****...

Although i am keeping an open mind for a WebOS tablet from HP if they would ever precede to making one...
biFFon 9th February 2011, 19:11 Quote
I'm looking forward to seeing the range of Android tablets coming out. With so many in the pipeline surely some of them will be able to compete with and better the Apple offerings... fingers crossed!
Guinevere 9th February 2011, 19:17 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveU
Sorry but it's been confirmed that the resolution will be exactly the same as the original iPad.

I missed the memo on this, where and when did apple officially confirm this?
Paulg1971 9th February 2011, 19:30 Quote
What a bunch of muppets- apple release something that is a bit thinner and lighter and everyone goes 'ohh i must have it'
leveller 9th February 2011, 19:47 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulg1971
What a bunch of muppets- apple release something that is a bit thinner and lighter and everyone goes 'ohh i must have it'

Yep, nothing to do with the camera, dual core or GFX ...

Moving on.

In answer to the question - if nothing better is on the market by the time the iPad2 comes out, yeah I'll upgrade.
skybarge 9th February 2011, 19:54 Quote
Damn, I won't be getting it...I wanted more Gee Bees!

Will be waiting to see what other tablets come out of the stables, hopefully they all have the Wifis
SteveU 9th February 2011, 20:00 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guinevere
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveU
Sorry but it's been confirmed that the resolution will be exactly the same as the original iPad.

I missed the memo on this, where and when did apple officially confirm this?

Obviously no one knows for sure until the offical launch in the coming weeks but reports such as this this and this (there is plenty more evidence on gadget sites too) strongly suggest this is the case.
Paulg1971 9th February 2011, 20:13 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by leveller
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulg1971
What a bunch of muppets- apple release something that is a bit thinner and lighter and everyone goes 'ohh i must have it'

Yep, nothing to do with the camera, dual core or GFX ...

Moving on.

In answer to the question - if nothing better is on the market by the time the iPad2 comes out, yeah I'll upgrade.

Yeah really makes it worth another £600 or so
eddtox 9th February 2011, 20:16 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulg1971
Yeah really makes it worth another £600 or so

Did I miss the memo saying it would cost £1200?

It is an upgrade. You sell your old one (if you have one), chuck in another couple of hundred and get the upgrade.
M7ck 9th February 2011, 20:18 Quote
As a current iPad (16GB 3G)owner I have to say I will 100% buy the iPad 2, probably on launch day. Loads of haters but you guys aren't apples target audience. The iPad is probably the invention of this millenium (so far).
Nexxo 9th February 2011, 20:20 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_kille4
For me I have no use for 3G since the vast majority of places that I go to already has a free WiFi spot so... i will just stick with my archos 101 till they make one based on honeycomb... it would have a much better interface than a****...

Although i am keeping an open mind for a WebOS tablet from HP if they would ever precede to making one...
Quote:
Originally Posted by biFFon
I'm looking forward to seeing the range of Android tablets coming out. With so many in the pipeline surely some of them will be able to compete with and better the Apple offerings... fingers crossed!
Well, it's been only a year... The HP WebOS slate is looking good. Only question is price and battery life.

Honeycomb looks good also but so far we've only seen one (relatively) functional prototype by Motorola: the Xoom. And as for that free Wifi...
Quote:
Originally Posted by skybarge
Will be waiting to see what other tablets come out of the stables, hopefully they all have the Wifis
Yes, but you'll have to pay for it. Not only does the Motorola Xoom cost $800,-- (yup, $200,-- more for a smaller 7" device) but you have to buy a 3G data plan --that is $20,-- a month for 1Gb, or $80,-- a month for 10Gb--, even if only for one month, to 'activate' the WiFi feature.

That's right: you need to buy a data plan you don't want, to use a free service that is already included on the device. Still think it is Apple screwing you over?
Stewb 9th February 2011, 20:25 Quote
I can't really argue with the rest Nexxo but the Xoom is 10.1" ;)
Paulg1971 9th February 2011, 20:26 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddtox
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulg1971
Yeah really makes it worth another £600 or so

Did I miss the memo saying it would cost £1200?

It is an upgrade. You sell your old one (if you have one), chuck in another couple of hundred and get the upgrade.

Where did you get £1200 pounds from, all Im saying is that a dual core cpu,maybe gfx and camera is not worth £600 or maybe more ,knowing the rip off prices apple charge.But if you want to buy one go ahead.I promise i won't laugh
Nexxo 9th February 2011, 20:28 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stewb
I can't really argue with the rest Nexxo but the Xoom is 10.1" ;)

You're right, I stand corrected.
maximus09 9th February 2011, 20:39 Quote
Destroy all iPads!! Destroy all iPads!! Exterminate! Exterminate!
SteveU 9th February 2011, 20:40 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulg1971
Where did you get £1200 pounds from, all Im saying is that a dual core cpu,maybe gfx and camera is not worth £600 or maybe more ,knowing the rip off prices apple charge.But if you want to buy one go ahead.I promise i won't laugh

It aint just Apple charging these prices either, the Xoom is meant to cost circa $799 in the US which means we'll probably end up paying £7-800 over here too.
Paulg1971 9th February 2011, 20:47 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveU
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulg1971
Where did you get £1200 pounds from, all Im saying is that a dual core cpu,maybe gfx and camera is not worth £600 or maybe more ,knowing the rip off prices apple charge.But if you want to buy one go ahead.I promise i won't laugh

It aint just Apple charging these prices either, the Xoom is meant to cost circa $799 in the US which means we'll probably end up paying £7-800 over here too.

And if everyone buys these tablets at these prices,they will stay at overinflated prices. I do think tablets do have a place but not at these prices
frontline 9th February 2011, 20:53 Quote
I really hope that ipad continues to dominate this niche market, so that other manufacturers concentrate on PC's, laptops and netbooks in 2011.
eddtox 9th February 2011, 20:58 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulg1971
Where did you get £1200 pounds from, all Im saying is that a dual core cpu,maybe gfx and camera is not worth £600 or maybe more ,knowing the rip off prices apple charge.But if you want to buy one go ahead.I promise i won't laugh
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulg1971
Yeah really makes it worth another £600 or so


The fact that no other manufacturer has been able to produce a comparable product for less suggests that apple's price isn't as inflated as you think.

Of course, if you mean that spending £600 for those upgrades is too much, you have a point. However, you have to remember that apple products tend to retain their value fairly well, so anyone who already has a first-gen ipad should be able to sell it and recoup about 70-80% of the initial cost, which essentially means that the upgrade would cost them about £200.
jrs77 9th February 2011, 21:02 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulg1971
And if everyone buys these tablets at these prices,they will stay at overinflated prices. I do think tablets do have a place but not at these prices

Look at the component-prices like display, cpu, etc and then come again asking for an iPad being sold for very much less. The components of the current entry-level iPad (16GB without 3G) alone cost $300 and that doesn't include the case, the iOS, the charger or the development-costs.

There's a reason why the other manufacturers are struggeling to release competitive tablets... they simply can't offer them for much lower prices then the iPad actually and why would you buy a device from Asus or Acer that's not atleast $100 cheaper then the iPad, while having the same hardware?
2bdetermine 9th February 2011, 21:29 Quote
“Apple iPad 2 enters production” surprised “Foxconn upgrades bunk bed”
outlawaol 9th February 2011, 22:45 Quote
I just went shopping with a friend to pick out a new laptop. We had a look at the Apple stuff and I do admit, apple products are damn sexy. Then we went and bought a Toshiba laptop for 1/2 the price and its still more feature laden than a apple notebook. The airbooks are some sweet tech. But not for $1300...

ipad 2 you say? Nah, I just want a netbook please... :)
eddtox 9th February 2011, 22:57 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by outlawaol
I just went shopping with a friend to pick out a new laptop. We had a look at the Apple stuff and I do admit, apple products are damn sexy. Then we went and bought a Toshiba laptop for 1/2 the price and its still more feature laden than a apple notebook. The airbooks are some sweet tech. But not for $1300...

ipad 2 you say? Nah, I just want a netbook please... :)

I agree that their laptops and desktops are expensive (overpriced?) for the hardware specs, but I don't think the iPad is in the same boat. As things stand the 16gb galaxy tab is virtually the same price as the top end ipad.
Jehla 9th February 2011, 23:14 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddtox
Quote:
Originally Posted by outlawaol
I just went shopping with a friend to pick out a new laptop. We had a look at the Apple stuff and I do admit, apple products are damn sexy. Then we went and bought a Toshiba laptop for 1/2 the price and its still more feature laden than a apple notebook. The airbooks are some sweet tech. But not for $1300...

ipad 2 you say? Nah, I just want a netbook please... :)

I agree that their laptops and desktops are expensive (overpriced?) for the hardware specs, but I don't think the iPad is in the same boat. As things stand the 16gb galaxy tab is virtually the same price as the top end ipad.

I've noticed the same thing, Apple is pricing very aggressively in the portable market. That being said Toshiba made a windows "air" laptop with slightly better specs, and that came in at the same price point.
[- pio -] 9th February 2011, 23:38 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_kille4
Although i am keeping an open mind for a WebOS tablet from HP if they would ever precede to making one...

Like the one just announced?
dactone 10th February 2011, 00:03 Quote
whats an i pad ? AND WHAT IS THE POINT OF IT!?
chrisb2e9 10th February 2011, 00:21 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by dactone
whats an i pad ? AND WHAT IS THE POINT OF IT!?
(making fun of all tablets here, not just the ipad)
Well, it doesn't fit in your pocket so you can't use it as a convenient mp3 player.
You need to hold it up so if you want to watch video its no easier than streaming to a tv(from any computer(heck even my phone)) and laying down on the couch. (pointing out that long term use is hard compared to a conventional laptop/desktop)
You cant use it as a cell phone. unless you use wifi. But then, I have a phone, so why?
you can play games on it. But they are only fun for a few minutes.

Honestly I don't see a need for tablets. Give it a projector for a screen and a wireless keyboard and I might use one as a mobile office. That is about it.
jrs77 10th February 2011, 00:58 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by outlawaol
I just went shopping with a friend to pick out a new laptop. We had a look at the Apple stuff and I do admit, apple products are damn sexy. Then we went and bought a Toshiba laptop for 1/2 the price and its still more feature laden than a apple notebook. The airbooks are some sweet tech. But not for $1300...

ipad 2 you say? Nah, I just want a netbook please... :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddtox
I agree that their laptops and desktops are expensive (overpriced?) for the hardware specs, but I don't think the iPad is in the same boat. As things stand the 16gb galaxy tab is virtually the same price as the top end ipad.

You've got to think about it that way...

When buying an Apple you buy a complete integrated system (hardware + OS + support) instead of just a piece of hardware with a OEM-copy of Windows on it.

If I have a problem with my MacBook, be it hardware or software I simply go into the store where I bought it, and get the problem solved within a couple of hours usually... and I get this for free within the two years of warranty. Yes, you heard that right... two year warranty all inclusive over here in Finland.

I don't get this kind of support from any other manufacturer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by [- pio -]
Like the one just announced?

Announcing and selling them in the retail-market are two totally different beasts.

At CES there were about 50 tablets shown from various manufacturers, but not a single one besides the Galaxy Tab can be bought at this point. Let alone for a cheaper price then the iPad.
skybarge 10th February 2011, 03:20 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexxo

That's right: you need to buy a data plan you don't want, to use a free service that is already included on the device. Still think it is Apple screwing you over?

My post was mostly sarcastic ;) but here in NZ where I'm from, all the Android phones are subsidised at least 50-100 less than the iPhone 4

ie Vodafone New Zealand:
iPhone 4 $779 + 61 a month for 60 minutes, 600 texts, 250mb data(yes only 250)
Galaxy S $699 + 61 a month for 60 minutes, 600 texts, 3GB of data and 1000 pxts
Nexus One $679 + 61 a month for 60 minutes, 600 texts, 3GB of data and 1000 pxts
HTC 7 Trophy $599 + 61 a month for 60 minutes, 600 texts, 3GB of data and 1000 pxts


So for the non iPhone plans we get an extra 2750MB data and 1000 pxts(not that anyone ever uses pxts...)

So yes, my country is indeed getting shafted by Apples prices! In fact I buy most of my phones from the UK or US unlocked

Similar to Australias pricing(although they are cheaper than us still)

Same with the tablets here:
$890 shipped for the cheapest Galaxy S 16GB 3G tab
$1036 shipped for the cheapest iPad 16GB 3G Tab

*All prices in NZD aka 0.77c to 1.00c USD
Niftyrat 10th February 2011, 07:01 Quote
Sorry love the iPad for what I use it for- watching mobiles etc on trains. But for ms the best bit is my 3 yr old can use it and I don't have to worry about him deleting things or breaking it.

It is not a computer and should not be thought of that way, if you want to create content or manage servers remotely etc. Buy a net book instead.
memeroot 10th February 2011, 07:21 Quote
From what I hear the kids seem to be big users . Bit expensive for that
Nexxo 10th February 2011, 07:50 Quote
And the elderly. And two million adult muggles for who Internet and computer technology has suddenly become accessible.

People can argue all they want on this forum how they don't see the point of it, how it is overpriced, how it lacks features. That is all opinion. The facts are that it sells like hotcakes, that almost everyone who has one loves it, and that so far no other manufacturer has been able to deliver a better device for even the same price, let alone a better one.

@skybarge: yes, you are getting shafted in New Zealand but blame your telecoms providers, not Apple.
perplekks45 10th February 2011, 07:50 Quote
Quote:
'nuff sed.
leveller 10th February 2011, 09:07 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Niftyrat
It is not a computer and should not be thought of that way, if you want to create content or manage servers remotely etc. Buy a net book instead.

You could write apps to do that ...

Just saying ;)
Snips 10th February 2011, 09:27 Quote
Jobs: "Reality distortion field engadged" (Spoken quietly to himself before the launch conference)

Jobs: "Hay everybody, look at my new shiny thing!"

The Masses: "Yeah, we want one. Here, take all my money!!!!"

Fan or not, like it or not, you know this is going to happen.
law99 10th February 2011, 09:35 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRAWL
I would prepare this thread for a near Engadget troll-fest that may occur!

I'll be honest, never got the hype about the iPad? What's so special about a giant iPhone that doesn't have a microphone or speaker system?

I personally think they are the perfect device for browsing the internet whilst sat on the sofa in the living room. Perfect in all ways but price and, as wuyanxu says, I'd probably get a little peaved about the absense of multitasking.
leveller 10th February 2011, 09:39 Quote
(to Snips) Maybe.

iPad3 lightly tipped for September according to MacRumors ... if there is any ounce of truth in that (I'm doubting it), then if there is no iPad3 beater at that stage then maybe I'll upgrade to that as well. Who knows at this stage. Until we get proper official specs of even the iPad2 we can only guess.

Of course, haters will hate regardless of specs. And yes Snips, no doubt there are ultimate fans who will buy regardless.
M7ck 10th February 2011, 09:41 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisb2e9
(making fun of all tablets here, not just the ipad)
Well, it doesn't fit in your pocket so you can't use it as a convenient mp3 player.
You need to hold it up so if you want to watch video its no easier than streaming to a tv(from any computer(heck even my phone)) and laying down on the couch. (pointing out that long term use is hard compared to a conventional laptop/desktop)
You cant use it as a cell phone. unless you use wifi. But then, I have a phone, so why?
you can play games on it. But they are only fun for a few minutes.

Honestly I don't see a need for tablets. Give it a projector for a screen and a wireless keyboard and I might use one as a mobile office. That is about it.

You obviously don't own or have used an iPad for any length of time. No you cannot use it as an MP3 player but who would want to, Yes you need to hold it but there are several cases out there that angle it brilliantly towards you. Long term use is not hard compared to a laptop/desktop and I don't know how you can make such a statement without owning one. You are correct in saying you cannot use it as a cell phone, but neither can you use a microwave or fridge as a cellphone.............wait..........that's right.....THAT IS NOT THERE PURPOSE. The games are only fun for a few minutes? Again you cannot comment on this if you don't own one. Sure some games are crap and only worth a quick blast but the same could be said of any platform. I own loads of games that I can quite happily play for hours and I am sure there are a lot more that I do not own.
BLC 10th February 2011, 09:52 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexxo
The facts are that it sells like hotcakes, that almost everyone who has one loves it, and that so far no other manufacturer has been able to deliver a better device for even the same price, let alone a better one.

I fear I may be out of my league taking on Nexxo here, but hey ho :).

Those are indeed the facts; the iPad has sold by the bucketload and no other competitor has ever come close. Even the strongest rival, the Galaxy Tab, has only sold around 2 million (althought that's 2 million to resellers, not 2 million retail). It hasn't been on the market nearly as long as the iPad, but it didn't exactly explode into the market the way the iPad did.

That said. While the iPad may be successful in not staying on store shelves for very long, you can make that same case about many mobile Apple products. In the end, any technology they come up with gives way to the enormous brand power of Apple. Sure, they have some great technology and some great software - not denying that - but is it really *that* much better than the competition? Especially with how far Android has come, and now with WP7 on the market and Honeycomb right around the corner?

In my book, no. Apple absolutely nailed the marketing with the iPod and iMac/Mac way back when. By the time the iPhone came around the brand loyalty was so vast that the iPhone could not possibly fail. Then all they had to do was keep the marketing money ticking over and don't change the design philosophy: the gravy train will keep on rolling under it's own power.

It's got to the point where Apple products will never fail to sell - regardless of their relative merits or shortcomings. The brand power/loyalty is simply too strong for it to happen. They literally could add a USB port to a polished turd and slap that little white apple on it; it will still fly off the shelves. This doesn't mean to imply that Apple products are turds, and - as I said - I'm not trying to diminish their technical achievements - hardware or software. However the technology isn't the story behind Apple's success.

If only I'd have invested £100 in Apple ten years ago...
M7ck 10th February 2011, 09:58 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by BLC

If only I'd have invested £100 in Apple ten years ago...

Snap, then I might be able to afford the macbook pro :)
leveller 10th February 2011, 10:02 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by BLC
If only I'd have invested £100 in Apple ten years ago...

Agree with yourself and M7ck on this. However, I have managed to dive into ARM albeit a bit later than I'd have liked ... ;)
eddtox 10th February 2011, 10:15 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by law99
I personally think they are the perfect device for browsing the internet whilst sat on the sofa in the living room. Perfect in all ways but price and, as wuyanxu says, I'd probably get a little peaved about the absense of multitasking.

I thought ios 4.3(or two?) added multitasking support for the ipad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BLC
I fear I may be out of my league taking on Nexxo here, but hey ho :).

Those are indeed the facts; the iPad has sold by the bucketload and no other competitor has ever come close. Even the strongest rival, the Galaxy Tab, has only sold around 2 million (althought that's 2 million to resellers, not 2 million retail). It hasn't been on the market nearly as long as the iPad, but it didn't exactly explode into the market the way the iPad did.

That said. While the iPad may be successful in not staying on store shelves for very long, you can make that same case about many mobile Apple products. In the end, any technology they come up with gives way to the enormous brand power of Apple. Sure, they have some great technology and some great software - not denying that - but is it really *that* much better than the competition? Especially with how far Android has come, and now with WP7 on the market and Honeycomb right around the corner?

In my book, no. Apple absolutely nailed the marketing with the iPod and iMac/Mac way back when. By the time the iPhone came around the brand loyalty was so vast that the iPhone could not possibly fail. Then all they had to do was keep the marketing money ticking over and don't change the design philosophy: the gravy train will keep on rolling under it's own power.

It's got to the point where Apple products will never fail to sell - regardless of their relative merits or shortcomings. The brand power/loyalty is simply too strong for it to happen. They literally could add a USB port to a polished turd and slap that little white apple on it; it will still fly off the shelves. This doesn't mean to imply that Apple products are turds, and - as I said - I'm not trying to diminish their technical achievements - hardware or software. However the technology isn't the story behind Apple's success.

If only I'd have invested £100 in Apple ten years ago...

You may have a bit of a point there, but people still have to be satisfied with their products in order to become regular customers. No amount of clever marketing will convince me to buy another Nokia phone in the near future, for example, because the one I have is a disappointment.

In short, marketing is not enough to build brand loyalty.

PS. I've never bought an apple product (although I was gifted an video ipod classic once) and have been criticising them for a long time, but I intend to pre-order the ipad 2
rollo 10th February 2011, 10:19 Quote
apple has huge brand loyalty and will sell any product they produce.

they relise most customers ( 99% ) want only 3 things

ease of use
looks
portability

the rest is for tech people like those on this site who want a bit more but are not the target audiance.
BLC 10th February 2011, 10:28 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddtox
You may have a bit of a point there, but people still have to be satisfied with their products in order to become regular customers. No amount of clever marketing will convince me to buy another Nokia phone in the near future, for example, because the one I have is a disappointment.

In short, marketing is not enough to build brand loyalty.

PS. I've never bought an apple product (although I was gifted an video ipod classic once) and have been criticising them for a long time, but I intend to pre-order the ipad 2

Indeed, however Apple pretty much nailed the "it just works" philosophy back with the release of OS X, and possibly even further back than that. Provided they continue to carry that philosophy forward into all their products, they will always have customers.

People buy Macs/iPhones because they're perceived to be less complicated than PCs/Windows Mobile/Android, and they get exactly what they expect. Crucially, no matter which iPhone or Mac they buy they always get the same consistent user experience. Since the release of OS X and iOS, they really haven't had much innovation in their software. In fact, you could argue that innovation would be bad for Apple: if the user experience is radically different to every other product, then it's suddenly something that people are not familiar with - meaning that it might not sell as well.

Don't get me wrong, Apple products are good. Buying an iPod Touch really brought down a lot of barriers I'd put in place around me ever buying anything made by Apple. Having used both Mac OS X and Windows, and iOS and Android, I just find the Apple ecosystem too restrictive. It's less of a problem for desktops, but I like games and cheap hardware upgrades too much to ever switch away from PCs (even though the term "PC" is an arbitrary distinction these days, because modern Macs are just PCs with a different operating system - but let's not open that can of worms, eh? ;)).
x5pilot 10th February 2011, 10:38 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulg1971
What a bunch of muppets- apple release something that is a bit thinner and lighter and everyone goes 'ohh i must have it'

Totally agree! ;)
eddtox 10th February 2011, 10:56 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by rollo
apple has huge brand loyalty and will sell any product they produce.

they relise most customers ( 99% ) want only 3 things

ease of use
looks
portability

the rest is for tech people like those on this site who want a bit more but are not the target audiance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BLC
Indeed, however Apple pretty much nailed the "it just works" philosophy back with the release of OS X, and possibly even further back than that. Provided they continue to carry that philosophy forward into all their products, they will always have customers.

People buy Macs/iPhones because they're perceived to be less complicated than PCs/Windows Mobile/Android, and they get exactly what they expect. Crucially, no matter which iPhone or Mac they buy they always get the same consistent user experience. Since the release of OS X and iOS, they really haven't had much innovation in their software. In fact, you could argue that innovation would be bad for Apple: if the user experience is radically different to every other product, then it's suddenly something that people are not familiar with - meaning that it might not sell as well.

Don't get me wrong, Apple products are good. Buying an iPod Touch really brought down a lot of barriers I'd put in place around me ever buying anything made by Apple. Having used both Mac OS X and Windows, and iOS and Android, I just find the Apple ecosystem too restrictive. It's less of a problem for desktops, but I like games and cheap hardware upgrades too much to ever switch away from PCs (even though the term "PC" is an arbitrary distinction these days, because modern Macs are just PCs with a different operating system - but let's not open that can of worms, eh? ;)).

You both seem to mention ease of use as if it's a bad thing. The fact is that the vast majority of people struggled to set the clocks on their VCRs. If it wasn't for companies like apple focusing on making technology easier to use, we probably wouldn't have personal computers.

Sure, most people on this site can make windows do what they want, but what if we were to take away the WIMP interface? I'm sure quite a few of use would struggle to get as much out of our computers if they were all command-line only. And even if we could, it doesn't mean we should.

It may be "only ease of use", but that is no small achievement.
Snips 10th February 2011, 11:03 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by x5pilot
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulg1971
What a bunch of muppets- apple release something that is a bit thinner and lighter and everyone goes 'ohh i must have it'

Totally agree! ;)

But that's the point of Apple. Jobs hypes the launch so great that even the hardest sceptic walks out the conference carrying three in his bag and his credit card $3000 lighter and wonders what the hell just happened.

Yes we all know you can get a much cheaper, powerful alternative but you aren't buying an Apple product for that purpose.

I can't complain with what Nexxo fights in the Apple corner as he does it so well but I have to disagree with him that everyone who purchased an iPad or Apple product are happy. I'm not, I own and have owned an iPod shuffle, Touch, iPhone3 and 4 and iPad. I am not completely happy with either product. I've either sold them on or given them to family members.

As to the actual reason or use of the iPad, I think I read it on this forum somewhere:-

"iPad is for consumption while while a tablet, laptop, desktop are for production"

I probably agree with that.
jrs77 10th February 2011, 11:18 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snips


Yes we all know you can get a much cheaper, powerful alternative but you aren't buying an Apple product for that purpose.

You can't get much more cheaper, if you take the service into account.

Two years warranty all inclusive and software and hardware being fixed in a couple of hours in the shop around the corner instead of weeks dealing with RMA etc

Apple sells complete systems with good support and not just a piece of hardware with random OS put onto it.
Snips 10th February 2011, 11:25 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrs77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snips


Yes we all know you can get a much cheaper, powerful alternative but you aren't buying an Apple product for that purpose.

You can't get much more cheaper, if you take the service into account.

Two years warranty all inclusive and software and hardware being fixed in a couple of hours in the shop around the corner instead of weeks dealing with RMA etc

Apple sells complete systems with good support and not just a piece of hardware with random OS put onto it.

You can't argue value for money mate. Come on!

If you had come to the discussion with quality and design then yes, it's over priced but it's what you have paid for. You can get cheaper more powerful alternatives to Apple products and you know that.
BLC 10th February 2011, 11:44 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddtox
You both seem to mention ease of use as if it's a bad thing. The fact is that the vast majority of people struggled to set the clocks on their VCRs. If it wasn't for companies like apple focusing on making technology easier to use, we probably wouldn't have personal computers.

Sure, most people on this site can make windows do what they want, but what if we were to take away the WIMP interface? I'm sure quite a few of use would struggle to get as much out of our computers if they were all command-line only. And even if we could, it doesn't mean we should.

It may be "only ease of use", but that is no small achievement.

I think you misunderstand me. It isn't a bad thing at all, especially not when it comes to iOS: Apple really did raise the bar a mile higher than what other smartphones were offering at the time - especially Windows Mobile (which truly was awful). Everyone else also then had to pull their socks up in order to compete; competition breeds consumer choice, and consumer choice breeds competitive pricing. Even with Mac OS X; how many Linux interfaces or Windows shells have we seen over the years that imitate the "look & feel" of OS X?

All I'm trying to say is that Apple definitely got it right and threw a shedload of marketing power behind it. The ease of use and consistency of their products combined with their very effective marketing created an extremely strong brand. A brand that is now so powerful that Apple can rely on that brand alone to shift SKUs. Of course they need to update their software/hardware offerings - consumers aren't going to keep buying the same stuff - but their products will sell on reputation alone, regardless of how good/bad people think they are.
<A88> 10th February 2011, 12:25 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snips
You can't argue value for money mate. Come on!

If you had come to the discussion with quality and design then yes, it's over priced but it's what you have paid for. You can get cheaper more powerful alternatives to Apple products and you know that.

Okay then, show me a tablet that's as quick as the iPad but cheaper? Oh, and 9-10hrs of battery life too please.

Samsung can't make one for a lower price and Motorola definitely can't from what it looks like. The HP Touchpad looks really slick from what I've seen and if it hits the right price-point then it would be the top of my list right now if I didn't already have a tablet; of course, we're still yet to see how the iPad 2 ends up but unless someone can bring out an affordable Honeycomb device in the meantime it's a two horse race as far as I'm concerned.
leveller 10th February 2011, 12:52 Quote
For those who were 3G owners and upgraded to 3GS or 4 - and are iPad owners looking to upgrade, let's hope the same performance increase-comparison can be made, happy days.
Snips 10th February 2011, 12:55 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by <A88>
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snips
You can't argue value for money mate. Come on!

If you had come to the discussion with quality and design then yes, it's over priced but it's what you have paid for. You can get cheaper more powerful alternatives to Apple products and you know that.

Okay then, show me a tablet that's as quick as the iPad but cheaper? Oh, and 9-10hrs of battery life too please.

Samsung can't make one for a lower price and Motorola definitely can't from what it looks like. The HP Touchpad looks really slick from what I've seen and if it hits the right price-point then it would be the top of my list right now if I didn't already have a tablet; of course, we're still yet to see how the iPad 2 ends up but unless someone can bring out an affordable Honeycomb device in the meantime it's a two horse race as far as I'm concerned.

Why just show you a cheaper tablet? As I've already stated, the iPad does nothing for me. It's purely for consumption and not production.

I'll happily wait for a Win8 device than spend the large amount of money again on an iPad. I'm in no rush.
leveller 10th February 2011, 13:07 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snips
Why just show you a cheaper tablet?

Because you made this statement "You can get cheaper more powerful alternatives to Apple products and you know that." as an argument against the iPad didn't you? ... didn't you? ... I think you tried to and failed?

;)
Snips 10th February 2011, 13:14 Quote
A cheaper and more powerful alternative to an iPad is any £200 - £250 netbook. That arguement was for Apple products. If you want specifics then how about just don't buy an iPad because you more than likely already own an alternative.

Keep on trolling leveller!
Woodspoon 10th February 2011, 13:18 Quote
Must mean there's a new iPod Touch on the way at some point too, since they are essentially the same thing.
Seems a bit crackers to me that people use iPad's for business use when it's just a big iPod.
It's like nobody knows what to use it for, but they have to be seen using one, so it gets used for all sorts in an attempt to find a purpose for it.
leveller 10th February 2011, 13:24 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snips
A cheaper and more powerful alternative to an iPad is any £200 - £250 netbook. That arguement was for Apple products. If you want specifics then how about just don't buy an iPad because you more than likely already own an alternative.

Keep on trolling leveller!

Well netbooks aren't tablets ... so you failed there. This argument is nonsense.
BLC 10th February 2011, 13:33 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodspoon
Must mean there's a new iPod Touch on the way at some point too, since they are essentially the same thing.
Seems a bit crackers to me that people use iPad's for business use when it's just a big iPod.
It's like nobody knows what to use it for, but they have to be seen using one, so it gets used for all sorts in an attempt to find a purpose for it.

Apple are nothing if not predictable in their releases. The new iPhone is always launched in June/July, with the iPod Touch following within a month or two (if not at the same time). There will be a new iPod Touch, but not until later in the year when the new iPhone is released ;).

The iPod Touch is basically an iPhone-without-the-phone (unless you use Skype/VOIP over a mobile Wifi connection :p) so it always follows iPhone releases.
Snips 10th February 2011, 13:37 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by leveller
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snips
A cheaper and more powerful alternative to an iPad is any £200 - £250 netbook. That arguement was for Apple products. If you want specifics then how about just don't buy an iPad because you more than likely already own an alternative.

Keep on trolling leveller!

Well netbooks aren't tablets ... so you failed there. This argument is nonsense.

The iPad isn't exactly a tablet either. Not what everyone else was calling a tablet before they released the iPad.

A large mobile phone perhaps without the call function?
M7ck 10th February 2011, 13:44 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snips
The iPad isn't exactly a tablet either.

Isn't it? What would you call it?
Snips 10th February 2011, 13:48 Quote
"A large mobile phone perhaps without the call function?"
M7ck 10th February 2011, 14:04 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snips
"A large mobile phone perhaps without the call function?"

And a cardboard box is a television without the television function?
BLC 10th February 2011, 14:12 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by M7ck
Isn't it? What would you call it?

Technically, it's a slate. Though the distinction is rather arbitrary, and probably only interesting for pedantic buggers like me :p
SteveU 10th February 2011, 14:19 Quote
Hi, crazy, crackers, bonkers, stupid muppet here.

I want an iPad 2, I will be buying an iPad 2 and more to the point I'm buying it as I know I will use it a lot (as will Mrs Muppet and baby muppet).

Everything has it's place in this world, if the iPad didn't have a place then the entire technology industry wouldn't have spent the last year trying to get into the market that the iPad created. If sales had dropped off a cliff, Apple wouldn't be pressing on with the 2nd gen (and 3rd, 4th, etc) either.

Not everyone sees the point in skiing or sky diving but people still love it nonetheless! To each their own I say!
<A88> 10th February 2011, 14:33 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snips
The iPad isn't exactly a tablet either. Not what everyone else was calling a tablet before they released the iPad.

A large mobile phone perhaps without the call function?

Talk about trolling. The iPad is a tablet. Just because it does things differently to a traditional tablet pc it doesn't make it any less of one, it just happens to perform better as a touchscreen device. Likewise, just because it's a consumption device as opposed to a productivity one, it doesn't make it any less of a tablet.

If you wanna subscribe to the whole 'oversized iPhone' conspiracy theories then fine, but the iPad formula of touchscreen OS in a thin slate design is the one that pretty much everyone else will going for and the majority of opinion sides against Microsoft's decision to put Windows 7/8 on tablet devices when it has a perfectly good tablet-friendly OS already in WP7.
eddtox 10th February 2011, 14:37 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveU
Hi, crazy, crackers, bonkers, stupid muppet here.

I want an iPad 2, I will be buying an iPad 2 and more to the point I'm buying it as I know I will use it a lot (as will Mrs Muppet and baby muppet).

Everything has it's place in this world, if the iPad didn't have a place then the entire technology industry wouldn't have spent the last year trying to get into the market that the iPad created. If sales had dropped off a cliff, Apple wouldn't be pressing on with the 2nd gen (and 3rd, 4th, etc) either.

Not everyone sees the point in skiing or sky diving but people still love it nonetheless! To each their own I say!

QFT +REP

My 1yr old daughter isn't too fussed about "content creation" and will probably be happy using one of the many applications designed specifically with toddlers in mind.
<A88> 10th February 2011, 14:43 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveU
Everything has it's place in this world, if the iPad didn't have a place then the entire technology industry wouldn't have spent the last year trying to get into the market that the iPad created. If sales had dropped off a cliff, Apple wouldn't be pressing on with the 2nd gen (and 3rd, 4th, etc) either.

Not everyone sees the point in skiing or sky diving but people still love it nonetheless! To each their own I say!

Given time I'd wager that tablets will be just as ubiquitous as laptops, and that the technology itself will become cheap to the point of almost disposability. Tablets are the next level of media consumption and fill the void left by laptops for tasks such as ebook/text reading that more traditional form factors can't fulfil. I don't have to worry about printing off every article we're sent to discuss in our seminars at university anymore because I can just load up the email and open the file at any point during the session, and once textbooks are more widely available through digital stores it'll almost be as big a no-brainer to have a tablet for university as it is to have a laptop.

In your specific case I'd definitely take a good look at the HP Touchslate first and compare it to whatever Apple comes out with. WebOS is the closest thing you'll get to the feeling of iOS and is in many ways a better platform, minus the obvious shortages of Apps and accessories ecosystem.
leveller 10th February 2011, 16:00 Quote
Things just get hotter and hotter in the Apple camp.

http://www.macrumors.com/2011/02/10/apple-tv-as-a-gaming-console/

iPad streams/controls AppleTV perfectly so I wonder where Apple take all this ...

Side note: I wouldn't currently recommend AppleTV to anyone who already has a media streamer. I would recommend it to anyone who doesn't and uses iTunes for all their music etc. It makes life very easy. But with limits of course.

Added: but with the news linked above ... that recommendation could be a bit swifter in coming ... who knows.
Snips 11th February 2011, 09:24 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by leveller
Things just get hotter and hotter in the Apple camp.

http://www.macrumors.com/2011/02/10/apple-tv-as-a-gaming-console/

iPad streams/controls AppleTV perfectly so I wonder where Apple take all this ...

Side note: I wouldn't currently recommend AppleTV to anyone who already has a media streamer. I would recommend it to anyone who doesn't and uses iTunes for all their music etc. It makes life very easy. But with limits of course.

Added: but with the news linked above ... that recommendation could be a bit swifter in coming ... who knows.

But then that is I feel the most restrictive part of iTunes. If you have an Apple device then it's fine but if you don't and want to play media through another source then you need two versions of the same data folder. One for iTunes and one for normal formats.

Didn't I read somewhere recently that Apple are getting hassle from TV execs for the steaming content being either too expensive or something? let me see if I can dig it out.
BLC 11th February 2011, 11:55 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snips
But then that is I feel the most restrictive part of iTunes. If you have an Apple device then it's fine but if you don't and want to play media through another source then you need two versions of the same data folder. One for iTunes and one for normal formats.

Didn't I read somewhere recently that Apple are getting hassle from TV execs for the steaming content being either too expensive or something? let me see if I can dig it out.

I have two words for you: Jailbreak and XBMC. XBMC is now available on jailbroken iOS, and that includes both models of Apple TV. No need for content transcoding ;). Assuming of course you're not using stuff from iTunes...
perplekks45 11th February 2011, 13:46 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by <A88>
Given time I'd wager that tablets will be just as ubiquitous as laptops, and that the technology itself will become cheap to the point of almost disposability. Tablets are the next level of media consumption and fill the void left by laptops for tasks such as ebook/text reading that more traditional form factors can't fulfil. I don't have to worry about printing off every article we're sent to discuss in our seminars at university anymore because I can just load up the email and open the file at any point during the session, and once textbooks are more widely available through digital stores it'll almost be as big a no-brainer to have a tablet for university as it is to have a laptop.

In your specific case I'd definitely take a good look at the HP Touchslate first and compare it to whatever Apple comes out with. WebOS is the closest thing you'll get to the feeling of iOS and is in many ways a better platform, minus the obvious shortages of Apps and accessories ecosystem.
I do largely agree with you on this one. Tablets are the natural successor to notebooks/netbooks and are another step towards true ubiquitous computing. What I think will have a very strong, though short-lived, effect on tablet sales will be the pick-up rate of wireless video transmition.
I am looking forward to the day I can sit on the sofa with my tablet (most likely 7-8" as I find anything bigger [i.e. the iPad] too heavy and uncomfortable over longer periods of time), browsing the internet while happily streaming a video from my NAS to my 40"-50" FullHD TV (possibly UHD) using the tablet. No need for a HTPC let alone a desktop.

I know that this is pretty much possible right now already but the cost for early adopters is too high and 1080p streaming on current tablets & using anything below 802.11n is just not practicable.

Right now I don't think I'm in the market for a tablet, & I don't think I'm alone, because it doesn't offer enough advantages over say a MacBook Air or Lenovo Edge to sacrifice the freedom that comes with the latter two.
Nexxo 12th February 2011, 10:54 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by BLC
I fear I may be out of my league taking on Nexxo here, but hey ho :).

Those are indeed the facts; the iPad has sold by the bucketload and no other competitor has ever come close. Even the strongest rival, the Galaxy Tab, has only sold around 2 million (althought that's 2 million to resellers, not 2 million retail). It hasn't been on the market nearly as long as the iPad, but it didn't exactly explode into the market the way the iPad did.

That said. While the iPad may be successful in not staying on store shelves for very long, you can make that same case about many mobile Apple products. In the end, any technology they come up with gives way to the enormous brand power of Apple. Sure, they have some great technology and some great software - not denying that - but is it really *that* much better than the competition? Especially with how far Android has come, and now with WP7 on the market and Honeycomb right around the corner?

In my book, no. Apple absolutely nailed the marketing with the iPod and iMac/Mac way back when. By the time the iPhone came around the brand loyalty was so vast that the iPhone could not possibly fail. Then all they had to do was keep the marketing money ticking over and don't change the design philosophy: the gravy train will keep on rolling under it's own power.

It's got to the point where Apple products will never fail to sell - regardless of their relative merits or shortcomings. The brand power/loyalty is simply too strong for it to happen. They literally could add a USB port to a polished turd and slap that little white apple on it; it will still fly off the shelves. This doesn't mean to imply that Apple products are turds, and - as I said - I'm not trying to diminish their technical achievements - hardware or software. However the technology isn't the story behind Apple's success.

If only I'd have invested £100 in Apple ten years ago...
You say that, but then you say:
Quote:
Originally Posted by BLC
Indeed, however Apple pretty much nailed the "it just works" philosophy back with the release of OS X, and possibly even further back than that. Provided they continue to carry that philosophy forward into all their products, they will always have customers.

People buy Macs/iPhones because they're perceived to be less complicated than PCs/Windows Mobile/Android, and they get exactly what they expect. Crucially, no matter which iPhone or Mac they buy they always get the same consistent user experience. Since the release of OS X and iOS, they really haven't had much innovation in their software. In fact, you could argue that innovation would be bad for Apple: if the user experience is radically different to every other product, then it's suddenly something that people are not familiar with - meaning that it might not sell as well.

Don't get me wrong, Apple products are good. Buying an iPod Touch really brought down a lot of barriers I'd put in place around me ever buying anything made by Apple. Having used both Mac OS X and Windows, and iOS and Android, I just find the Apple ecosystem too restrictive. It's less of a problem for desktops, but I like games and cheap hardware upgrades too much to ever switch away from PCs (even though the term "PC" is an arbitrary distinction these days, because modern Macs are just PCs with a different operating system - but let's not open that can of worms, eh? ;)).

I can't help but think that there is a bit of cognitive dissonance reduction at work when people point at Apple's marketing as the reason for its success. It is just another way of saying: "OK, I know that Apple products sell like hotcakes but it can't be because they are actually any good... It's the marketing, I tell ya. Yeah, the marketing! Steve's reality distortion field! Apple customers being easily seduced sheep! Anything but the possibility that Apple might actually design a halfway decent product...

Ironically Apple does not get worshipped. The haters are just projecting. Microsoft sells flawed products, Sony does. They all market their products as great. But no brand attracts the hate-sheep like Apple. Perhaps because it does really produce something that dares to differ from the throng. That doesn't slap a USB port on something just because everyone else does, regardless of the lack of function for it.

The reason Apple products sell well is not because Apple has better technology; it has the same tech as any other company. It is not that it has better marketing. It has the same ubiquitous, almost viral marketing as any other company. It is because Apple applies the technology better. It works backwards from the customer, not forwards from the technology. It does not advertise what specs a product has, but what you can do with it.
VipersGratitude 12th February 2011, 12:31 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexxo

Ironically Apple does not get worshipped.

Actually, they do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexxo

The haters are just projecting. Microsoft sells flawed products, Sony does. They all market their products as great. But no brand attracts the hate-sheep like Apple. Perhaps because it does really produce something that dares to differ from the throng.


Dares to differ from the throng. That sums up the Apple marketing message right there. The reason Apple inspires such hatred is because their marketing has been devisive for...well, as long as I can remember anyway. Apple has always positioned themselves as "the other", the very cool other at that - You need only look back at their "Think Different" campaign, where they used deceased historical rebellious figures to posthumously endorse their products to see that. The reason this has grown in to hate is the following:

Insecurity: Most people, and therefore most geeks, grow up with Windows. Mac OS is quite different. It has created an area of computing that intimidates people because they are excluded from it - Which brings me on to my next reason...

High price of entry: Most computers are budget Windows-based PCs. Apple products are expensive - a "low range" Apple product is in the mid-to-high price range of every market they're in. Apple don't cater to poor people, which makes their products appear elitist and inherently exclusive...Which brings me on to my next reason...

Apple aren't a technology company: Apple, for a long time, have in fact been a fashion company. Yes, they make tech, but if you take a step back they can only be seen as a fashion company. Take the latest "What is iPad?" commercial and replace the word "iPad" with another fashion product and you'll see it works perfectly - "What is Chanel No. 5? Chanel is beautiful. Chanel is magical. It is a revolution and it's only just begun..." They employ all the tactics of a fashion company - The desire for individuality (think different) and the high price of entry to allow their consumers to ostentatiously project their success. That's without even mentioning the hipster iPod...or Apples own anthropomorphizations of a Mac and PC (I'm a PC)

So, Apple's marketing machine has made equal measures of Apple lovers and haters for socio-economic reasons...They want you to see Apple as producing different, rebellious, cool and aspirational products, but some people see right through the spiel even if they aren't quite able to articulate their insight. It's not quite so simple as regurgitating their marketing message of the last 20 or so years.
Nexxo 12th February 2011, 12:39 Quote
But if people can cut past the crap and evaluate Windows objectively --no, wait...

I would agree to an extent with the above, except the notion that Apple is not a technology company. It clearly is, judged by the products it produces. Vertu is a fashion company and its mobiles are just plain ol' re-badged mobiles in an exclusive jacket. Apple however makes stuff and creates technological niche markets that leaves other technology companies struggling to catch up. Apple is not just a pretty face. It just uses fashion marketing strategies.
VipersGratitude 12th February 2011, 12:55 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexxo
They see right through the spiel but not as far as the product in its own right. Chanel No. 5 may be pretentious, but you have to admit it smells better than Sure deodorant...
Funny you should say that, because one of the lines from that iPad advert is "It lasts all day"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexxo

It's a pity that a decent product can't speak for itself. If it could, Palm would have been doing a lot better.

But if people can cut past the crap and evaluate Windows objectively --no, wait...

And thats the thing...geeks do...they trade ease-of-use for power and freedom-to-tweak...all within the same price bracket.

Mark my words once the veneer wears off the iPad and their competitors catch up the thing that's going to kill apple is their walled-garden approach. It has never worked in the tech industry. Not once. Remember CompuServe? The model works as people get used to a new technology then crumbles as they become increasingly more fluent.
Nexxo 12th February 2011, 13:13 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by VipersGratitude
Funny you should say that, because one of the lines from that iPad advert is "It lasts all day"
Yes, but it does. That's the point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VipersGratitude
And thats the thing...geeks do...they trade ease-of-use for power and freedom-to-tweak...all within the same price bracket.
Not judging by some of the comments about Windows I read here...
Quote:
Originally Posted by VipersGratitude
Mark my words once the veneer wears off the iPad and their competitors catch up the thing that's going to kill apple is their walled-garden approach. It has never worked in the tech industry. Not once. Remember CompuServe? The model works as people get used to a new technology then crumbles as they become increasingly more fluent.
Maybe. Maybe not. Even though PCs are excellent gaming rigs, consoles are still doing quite well. Some people just prefer the closed-wall approach, not because it is less complicated, but because it is more convenient. And I see is people jailbreaking the iPhone rather than skipping to a more open platform. Has to tell you something.
eddtox 12th February 2011, 13:16 Quote
The point is that apple makes products for people who are not geeks, or for geeks who don't want to spend all day making something do what they want it to, they just want something that does its job so they can get on with other things. These two markets are not likely to go away in the near future.
jrs77 12th February 2011, 13:44 Quote
Sometime back in the 80's when Microsoft was releasing their MS-DOS 2.0 Steve Jobs had allready the vision for an easy to use PC and Apple developed their first OS with GUI and mouse-pointer (Lisa OS), which was shortly followed by Macintosh System Software in 1984.

Microsoft was still developing one after another DOS-Version and only added Windows as an additional tool starting with Windows 1.0 in 1985, before they finally released their first integrated GUI for an OS with Win 3.x in 1990.

Windows 95 was released as an revolutionary OS in 1995 and Bill Gates and the Microsoft PR-Department hyped it beyond belief... Apple had a system like Windows 95 for several years allready (MacOS 7 with all the features of Win95 was released in 1991!) but they didn't hype their products back then.

Actually it's not Apple to blame for playing the game better these days then their competitors, who started marketing their products way more agressive then Apple ever did during the 80's or 90's allthough Apple basically invented the kind of PC and OS we all use these days back in that time.

Instead of picking on Apple constantly, people should actually applaud them for keeping the other manufacturers on their toes trying to invent better products for the customers.

Without Apple and the visions of Steve Jobs back in the 80's we would still all use the command-line.
Nexxo 12th February 2011, 15:46 Quote
^^^ What he says. Most people here may be too young but I still remember the media campaigns and news reports on Windows 95. It was like the second coming of Christ.

Now Windows 95 was indeed a massive improvement on Windows 3.11, but the Apple Mac had been doing the same thing for 4 years already.
leveller 12th February 2011, 17:10 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrs77
Instead of picking on Apple constantly, people should actually applaud them for keeping the other manufacturers on their toes trying to invent better products for the customers.

This.

They are moving our beloved industry forward and dragging the other manufacturers with them.
Snips 12th February 2011, 20:02 Quote
Are you *%£@ing me?

Apples campaigns were everywhere and far more in your face Ridley Scott directed than anything Microsoft did.

Christ, how some people here suffer from selective memories.

Can someone please turn of Job's Reality distortion field now so you can all see you've been conned again.
Nexxo 12th February 2011, 20:32 Quote
ORLY? You don't remember Dame Edna Everage (a.k.a. Barry Humphries) launching Windows 95 then? "The world will never be the same again!" Cue catchy Rolling Stones number: "Start Me Up". Jay Leno did a nice little intro too.

I also remember how hordes of people queued around the block to be the first at the till with a copy of W95 when it officially came on sale at midnight. Yes, shops opened at midnight. To sell an operating system. I remember watching all this on the news, a shopping frenzy that makes the iPad launch seem sedate by comparison and think: "Jeez, it's just an OS...".

Selective memory? We all know you are just a bit subjective, Snips.
jrs77 12th February 2011, 21:56 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snips
Are you *%£@ing me?

Apples campaigns were everywhere and far more in your face Ridley Scott directed than anything Microsoft did.

Christ, how some people here suffer from selective memories.

Can someone please turn of Job's Reality distortion field now so you can all see you've been conned again.

And now start looking around for stuff that happened in the 80's and 90's and then come again to tell me please....

The only one selective is you there.

I don't own an iPad, iPod or iPhone... I wouldn't buy an iMac or PowerMac either as all these devices don't suit my needs actually. I'm no fanboy at all, but I'm objective on this whole Apple/Wintel topic whereas 90% of these forums aren't.
<A88> 12th February 2011, 22:04 Quote
Honestly, the weight given to Apple's marketing contribution to its success is completely out of proportion. Sure, they're usually persuasive ads, and sometimes funny, but they haven't plastered them all over websites or bought any more TV airtime than most other competitors.

Apple's biggest and most successful marketing campaign is the one that they neither produce or pay for- it's people showing their products to friends and families and letting them see how easy and intuitive they are to use.

I've never been the company's biggest fan but I'm not stupid enough to think they millions of crappy half-arsed products just because they've stuck a few posters in a tube station.
VipersGratitude 13th February 2011, 03:08 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrs77
Sometime back in the 80's when Microsoft was releasing their MS-DOS 2.0 Steve Jobs had allready the vision for an easy to use PC and Apple developed their first OS with GUI and mouse-pointer (Lisa OS), which was shortly followed by Macintosh System Software in 1984.

This makes it sound like Apple actually invented Xerox's WIMP GUI, not just happen to be the first to market with a mainstream commercial version.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexxo
Yes, but it does. That's the point.
Netbooks last all day too...And outsell the iPad
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexxo

Maybe. Maybe not. Even though PCs are excellent gaming rigs, consoles are still doing quite well. Some people just prefer the closed-wall approach, not because it is less complicated, but because it is more convenient. And I see is people jailbreaking the iPhone rather than skipping to a more open platform. Has to tell you something.

The success of consoles has nothing to do with them being a closed system. It has more to do with things like price of entry, perception of parents (many see a PC as a potential pedo-magnet), and the increasingly social nature of gaming.

As far as rampant jailbreaking on the iPhone goes, that tells me that already people are resisting the walled garden. The reason they haven't switched yet is because they are most likely tied in to minimum term contracts. Usually 2-3 yrs which is a an eon in smartphone terms. 2 yrs ago Android had only just been released.
outlawaol 13th February 2011, 03:40 Quote
[troll] Lets use literal thinking here. Apples (the fruit) are pretty, plentiful and all exactly the same in one big basket sold by farmer Jobs.

PC has a literal meaning. Purely Customizable. ;)

Just say'n [/troll]

Dont ban me bro! ;)
kempez 13th February 2011, 08:30 Quote
Arguing and extolling the various ad campaigns of Apple and Microsoft gets you nowhere. Microsoft wish they could Market like Apple. Dell's adverts are just as full of absolute tosh...Sony....the lot of them. They want to sell stuff, that's what they do.

The Apple ecosystem (closed wall or however you want to put it), is very easy to use, works well and lasts a long time. No-one accounts for the fact that Mac OSX gets faster with every generation, even on old hardware....Windows simply requires more brute force to run. And that's not even thinking about the amount of times I've had to faff around with Windows getting things working. Doesn't happen even a quarter of the times on OSX.

I'm looking forward to the next gen of tablets. I'm looking to replace my traditional pen and pad for meetings with one....we'll see if it's iPad 2, or something else ;)
jrs77 13th February 2011, 09:53 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by outlawaol
[troll] Lets use literal thinking here. Apples (the fruit) are pretty, plentiful and all exactly the same in one big basket sold by farmer Jobs.

PC has a literal meaning. Purely Customizable. ;)

Just say'n [/troll]

Dont ban me bro! ;)

Customization brings alot of problems with it like compatibility-issues, etc... And alot of people don't need any customization, but only a system that works and does what they bought it for.

Apple sells complete systems (hardware+OS) ment for those people.
Nexxo 13th February 2011, 09:59 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by VipersGratitude
Netbooks last all day too...And outsell the iPad
They don't and they don't. Check the figures. But the point is: Apple commercials may sound like fashion commercials, but it does what it says on the tin. People get that better than the list of specs that PC World rattles off.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VipersGratitude
The success of consoles has nothing to do with them being a closed system. It has more to do with things like price of entry, perception of parents (many see a PC as a potential pedo-magnet), and the increasingly social nature of gaming.

As far as rampant jailbreaking on the iPhone goes, that tells me that already people are resisting the walled garden. The reason they haven't switched yet is because they are most likely tied in to minimum term contracts. Usually 2-3 yrs which is a an eon in smartphone terms. 2 yrs ago Android had only just been released.

I disagree. Parents see computers as a potential learning tool and consoles as an expensive, addictive time-wasting distraction that turns their kids into anti-social school shooters with rickets.
A decent gaming PC costs the same as a console. The Wii has repositioned itself as an easy to use, cheap, fun family/social activity system, like the PS1 once did. The convenience of its closed system has not harmed it --or the PS3, or the X-Box.

The reason we see jailbreaking on the iPhone is because except for the closed wall, people rather like the iPhone. That is why it keeps selling so well even though we are on the 4th generation and open alternatives have been available since the last three. Contracts last only 18 months. I know people who get offered an upgrade every year. With the iPhone getting real money on eBay or Mazuma, selling up and switching sets is a synch. Sorry, not buying the arguments.
Snips 13th February 2011, 23:51 Quote
Well I do own the iPad, iPhone, iPod and I've parted with my hard earned cash. That gives me the right to say whatever the hell I like about Apple and it's products.

Have I found an alternative on all three? Yes, Yes and Yes.

Apple will not get my money again, that I can guarantee you.

Keep following those sheep girls!
leveller 14th February 2011, 07:17 Quote
for some reason ... I don't believe you. I've checked back on your posts regarding Apple and you have always come across (to me) as anti-Apple, and anti-ATi (if I remember right?). I've always thought of you as the most outspoken and biased poster towards Apple on these forums at least.

I think you would have us believe you have owned those products to help boost your biased posts as a means of adding evidence of having-a-clue.

I know you would love to throw the word troll at me again, but I'm entitled to my point of view, and that is it.
Nexxo 14th February 2011, 07:36 Quote
I'm with Leveller on this one. Your tedious name calling betrays a lack of objectivity and your opinions are not backed up by fact or logic. Instead when you are called out you try to shift the direction of the debate onto a tangent. Your dislike of Apple is known to be kind of fanatical. But you expect us to believe you own three Apple products?

No offense, Snips, but on this topic nobody takes you seriously.
Snips 14th February 2011, 08:53 Quote
No problem ladies, I'll take photo when I'm home tonight to shut you all up. A photo of my ATi card as well if that keeps you happy Leveller.
kempez 14th February 2011, 11:15 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snips
No problem ladies, I'll take photo when I'm home tonight to shut you all up. A photo of my ATi card as well if that keeps you happy Leveller.
I wouldn't bother mate, I don't think we care.

I have absolutely no problem with people saying they dislike one thing or another, backed up with cogent arguments. If you're just name calling and whining about something you bought (three times?!), surely the best thing to do was to not buy it in the first place? "Yeah I bought it, but I didn't like it....so I bought another one almost identical".

On topic-ish - has anyone seen the new Galaxy Tab 10.1? Looks pretty nice?
Snips 14th February 2011, 12:35 Quote
You're absolutely right Kempez but unfortunately because I have an opinion that doesn't sit well with others, it's become a bit of a pissing contest that needs to be put to an end.

I do feel quite annoyed by the fact that I have in essence purchased three differing in size identical gadgets were one can make calls and one has a larger screen and the last cannot make calls and has a smaller screen.
kempez 14th February 2011, 12:53 Quote
Understandable, but begs the question still: why did you buy them all?

I've got an iPhone and to me, it's the ultimate convergence device. I listen to music on it (a lot), watch films as/when I want, play games, email, surf the web, text and call. Oh yes, I also frequently use the excellent Google Maps app to direct me where I need to go. It does all those things and does them well. I'm not trying to use it for anything it doesn't need to be used for and it's very simple to use.

As such, I don't have an iPod touch as I don't need one. I do want an iPad, but cannot currently justify one as I don't have that much spare earnings (after new kitchens etc ;)). So I just don't buy one.

My wife has an iPod touch, but only because I got fed up of her stealing my iPhone/smartphone to play games on (I never understand how someone can play Cookie Dozer for so long!)

So yeah, it's all about appropriate usage in my mind. If you want a bigger device than an iPhone for sofa-surfing, email/facebook/twitter on the go and the odd word document, the iPad is fine. Anything else (or if you have a smartphone that does a lot of those), it's a luxury and a little redundant.

**Just re-read my comment above, didn't mean it to sound harsh by the way (it did though!).**
Nexxo 14th February 2011, 13:08 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snips
You're absolutely right Kempez but unfortunately because I have an opinion that doesn't sit well with others, it's become a bit of a pissing contest that needs to be put to an end.
It is not your opinion that people have a problem with; it's the way you voice it. You don't like Apple. OK, we've got that by now. You struggle to articulate cogent reasons why not. OK, whatever. You make denigrating remarks to everyone who disagrees, questioning their sanity and their mental capacity. Getting tired now. The lady does protest too much.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snips
I do feel quite annoyed by the fact that I have in essence purchased three differing in size identical gadgets were one can make calls and one has a larger screen and the last cannot make calls and has a smaller screen.
Let the buyer beware. To make one unhappy purchasing decision is unfortunate. To make two is carelessness. To make three, well...

Never mind our sanity; you are obviously doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result each time.
Snips 15th February 2011, 08:38 Quote
http://forums.bit-tech.net/picture.php?albumid=1016&pictureid=16763

iPod was for my son. iPhone was a free upgrade and iPad was for my daughter.

I've used all three extensively and I have to say ladies, I'm not impressed.

So since I have an INFORMED opinion on these items, I can say whatever the hell I like. I'm not asking for your approval Nexxo.

(For the one who questioned the ATi owenership, just look at Little Sister)
jrs77 15th February 2011, 09:12 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snips


iPod was for my son. iPhone was a free upgrade and iPad was for my daughter.

I've used all three extensively and I have to say ladies, I'm not impressed.

So since I have an INFORMED opinion on these items, I can say whatever the hell I like. I'm not asking for your approval Nexxo.

(For the one who questioned the ATi owenership, just look at Little Sister)

Sure you can say what you like. The way you do it however....
Snips 15th February 2011, 10:20 Quote
It's just text, the true emotion of the author can be intrepreted in any way by the reader. It's the readers choice whether they think it is positive or negative comment. The author cannot and should not try to control that.
b0ng0 15th February 2011, 10:29 Quote
The only thing I've seen people do on these is play games. And sometimes browse the web. I don't get it.
kempez 15th February 2011, 11:39 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by b0ng0
The only thing I've seen people do on these is play games. And sometimes browse the web. I don't get it.

So the answer is: don't buy one ;)

I've seen people use them to take notes in meetings, play games, browse the web, email, listen to music and watch movies. We've even tried to get Citrix/Windows working properly on one....it doesn't because Windows isn't a tablet OS ;)

I wouldn't mind replacing my old school paper pad with a tablet for work, but can't justify that...yet ;)
Nexxo 15th February 2011, 19:12 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snips
I've used all three extensively and I have to say ladies, I'm not impressed.

So since I have an INFORMED opinion on these items, I can say whatever the hell I like. I'm not asking for your approval Nexxo.

If you have an INFORMED opinion, you are not sharing it. All I read is: "Apple is crap, and you're all sheep if you don't think so". End of discussion.

Well, I have an iPhone and an iPod, so I guess that makes my opinion equally INFORMED. But somehow my INFORMED opinion is that of a mindless sheep, while your INFORMED opinion is that of an INFORMED user. Doesn't add up, no?

So you have whatever opinion you want. (it's a free world after all) and we will have ours. Everybody happy.
Snips 16th February 2011, 08:46 Quote
Again, I wasn't asking for your approval nexxo.
Nexxo 16th February 2011, 08:57 Quote
No, you're asking for my agreement, and get all sulky when you don't get it.

Here's how it works: you voice an opinion; people agree or disagree. In this case we disagree. That is not the same as disapproval; we just don't think about things the same way. We can have an (informed) debate on why, or we can let it go. It's no biggie.
Snips 17th February 2011, 07:47 Quote
I couldn't give a toss whether you agreed or not. I won't loose sleep over it.

While I agree it's not all doom and gloom over on planet Apple, it ain't no utopia either.
leveller 17th February 2011, 08:22 Quote
If you don't give a toss, maybe you'll be able to calm yourself down in time for the next Apple thread.
Snips 17th February 2011, 10:36 Quote
I'm as calm as a hindu cow, you lot are getting your knickers in a twist.
Snips 17th February 2011, 17:20 Quote
Quote:

hehe, maybe not then.
eddtox 17th February 2011, 18:15 Quote
Incidentally, do you think Hindus are trying to lure cows into a false sense of security?
Nexxo 17th February 2011, 20:02 Quote
Snips 17th February 2011, 21:46 Quote
Who cares? I'll take mine medium rare.
Nexxo 18th February 2011, 08:11 Quote
Excellent choice. Beef cooked more thoroughly than that is a waste of good meat.
The_Beast 24th February 2011, 08:31 Quote
Apple iPad II to medium rare cooked meat, wtf did I miss




I like all my meat medium rare, a warm/hot pink center that is tender, mmmm mmmm mmmm
Fod 24th February 2011, 08:49 Quote
you missed the bizarre flame war about apple devices. a nice juicy steak is the great leveller that ends all arguments.
Snips 24th February 2011, 12:16 Quote
Beans nearly killed the other iPad 2 topic
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