Sandy Bridge chipset flaw halts board shipments
The design issue affects SATA performance on Intel's P67 and H67 motherboard chipsets.
In a statement, Intel says that the issue can potentially affect the 'performance or functionality of SATA-linked devices such as hard disk drives and DVD-drives.' Both Intel's P67 and H67 chipsets support up to six SATA ports; two 6Gbps ports and four 3Gbps ports.
According to the folks over at Anandtech, who spoke to Intel yesterday, the flaw only affects the 3Gbps ports, and Intel's statement simply says that the 'SATA ports within the chipsets may degrade over time.'
How long are we talking about here? We asked a spokesperson from motherboard manufacturer MSI, who told us that it looks as though 'the performance of some of the Intel SATA ports on Intel 6-series products can degrade over a period of three years.'
Intel says it's already developed a silicon fix for the chipset issue, which will be in the hands of motherboard manufacturers by the end of February. According to Intel, the Sandy Bridge motherboard business should be back in full flow in April.
That's a long time to wait, though, and while it's good to see that Intel has released a fix, this issue raises all sorts of questions for anyone who's already purchased a Sandy Bridge system. Intel promises that it 'will work with its OEM partners to accept the return of the affected chipsets,' and also says it 'plans to support modifications or replacements needed on motherboards or systems.'
However, as Intel is only the chipset manufacturer, it looks as though any decisions about recalling boards that have already been sold will be up to the motherboard manufacturers themselves. A spokesperson from a motherboard maker that wished to remain anonymous told us that 'there is likely to be a recall situation, and from my thinking that would be down to the specific vendor to put that in place. The likelihood is that Intel will bear some responsibility in that, or we hope so anyway.'
Thankfully, MSI appears to be tackling the situation diligently, and we hope other motherboard manufacturers will follow suit. 'MSI takes the quality of its products very seriously,' commented the company, 'so at this moment we are investigating product batches that may be affected and, meanwhile, have stopped all shipments to our distributors and resellers. Additionally, we've asked resellers to hold sales of the Intel 6-series-based MSI products to customers until the issue can be resolved.'
In terms of product recall, the company says that 'end-users who have already purchased MSI Intel 6-Series motherboards are advised to wait for our update highlighting the actual products affected. We are working closely with Intel to help identify this as soon as possible. For MSI notebook and all-in-one product lines, we can confirm that there are currently no products in the UK channel which are affected by this issue.'
The situation appears to have caught everyone in the motherboard chipset business by surprise, though. Intel UK has refused to comment until it gets more information from the US, as have other motherboard makers, and we may well have to wait a couple of days before we find out exactly what's going on.
Have you bought a Sandy Bridge system, and are you worried about this design issue? As always please share your thoughts in the forums.
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Discuss in the forums ReplyLike Greenie states its only affecting the 3Gb sata ports, so im really not to bothered but will happily replace it with a fixed board
Saying that if the RMA process looks to be quick once the dust settles I may swap it out (get the latest rev of the UD4 at least)
"Mission accomplished"
:D
Thanks - I've put in a link to the Anandtech article as well now.
:D
+1
"Make sure you collect the 'protection' from ARM" :P
Which is why i'll be waiting for other people to beta test the new Bulldozer CPU's for 3mths after it launches in Q2 this year....
Not great news for Intel, but at least it has been spotted early.
the poor engineer was probably just doing what he's been told. i would blame poorly documented cell library rather than the engineer, because in IC design, all you are seeing are blocks, not how the transistor is made.
(but then, im just a poor engineer doing what i've been told. so from the bottom looking up, i find holding a single workhorse engineer responsible is wrong)
Now it is out in the public domain that the chipsets are faulty I would advise everyone in the UK who has one of the affected motherboards to return it to the supplier using the relevant consumer law (Sale of Goods Act) and request a full refund.
also, don't forget rubber bumpers to cover up the SATA ports in question.
Ofc i could but i think the problem is minor as on my blu ray drive is using the 3gb sata and i need a computer so im happy to wait.
haha id not like to be in his shoes xd
SB seems by far the best system out there. With a fix, I'm most likely to upgrade to it. From what Ive read, it's important to realize exactly what the issue is. Anandtech summed it up well:
Interestingly enough the problem doesn’t affect ports 0 & 1 on the 6-series chipset. Remember that Intel has two 6Gbps ports and four 3Gbps ports on P67/H67, only the latter four are impacted by this problem.
Then again gate thickness has been on the cutting edge for decades, and so far it worked out fine.
I just got a full SB system plumbed in yesterday with dual loops.
Oddly my 1TB drive was giving off a noise which I thought was the click of death -- connected it to a 3Gbps port and it stopped and appears to be OK, though I've not had chance to do any more in depth investigation. SMART info appears to be OK, though I've read that this isn't necessarily a definitive indicator.
I think I can live using 6Gbps only -- I'll maybe try the drive in another 6Gbps port (I believe the P8P67 has more than one 6Gbps controller)
Schaedenfraude, anyone?
Use the SATA III rather than the Intel SATA II ports.
Set up a back up and you should be OK.
I noticed that when I first built my SB system, although mine was on a 6Gbps port.
LOL :D.
But ouch I got the MSI P67A-GD65 & use all of the sata ports :(.
But this quote put me at ease :D.
Wuh wut? Dunno if you've heard about a little company called Advanced Micro Devices? They do x86 too...
yes, amd makes their own chipsets, but for a while nvidia made chipsets for intel (while intel also made their own) and then intel basically told them to stop doing it, and when you have 1 company do all the work, something like this happens.
Intel CEO: I've got an idea!
Intel Employee: What is it?
Intel CEO: Let's 'leak' it that our chipsets 3Gbs ports degrade.
Intel Employee: ...... Sir, you do realise April is still not among us yet? It's like another 2 months away.
Intel CEO: Meh, let's do it.
Intel Employee: ....... Ok then...... *starts typing*
On a more serious note, i feel sorry mainly for those who watercooled their SB rigs, if they wish to RMA their motherboard, they have to drain it all and take their blocks off. Still, by the looks of it if it's usable and wont degrade performance on the HDD, then it's ok to leave it temporarily.
Where you're getting your analysis mixed up is looking only at chipset providers for one of the two major x86 manufacturers. Yes, if Nvidia was able to produce an 1155 chipset then users would have an alternative for the 1155 socket, not for all of x86. AMD provides an alternative, as storm has already pointed out.
could not agree more ...
yeah...AMD has NEVER had to recall ANYTHING.....yeah.....
I recall (not intended to coincide) the old Opteron Single Core processors on the E4 stepping revision were recalled in 2006.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opteron#Opteron_recall
all of you are COMPLETELY missing the point i'm trying to make - i'm not saying that intel is the only chipset maker. i'm not saying that if nvidia made intel chipsets that intel is less likely to make a mistake. amd is completely irrelevant to this discussion since they didn't screw up their chipset and they didn't tell anybody to stop making chipsets for them. what i've TRYING to say is if intel didn't tell nvidia to stop making chipsets, then people would have an alternative chipset to turn to in this particular situation. HOWEVER, since intel is the only chipset manufacturer for SB, people with these CPUs get this problem, but if nvidia was still allowed to make chipsets, then they wouldn't be affected. i don't see how this is such a difficult concept to grasp.
altho intel and amd (and via) create x86 CPUs, their designs in their processors and chipsets are so drastically different that even if you made a pin compatible amd cpu to fit in an intel board or vise versa, it won't work. thats why you can emulate an efi and you still can't get mac to install on almost any amd machine. like i said before, i deliberately didn't bring up amd because it isn't relevant to this situation.
(just checked OCUK)
OCUK don't seem to see it as much of an issue, if you search for a P67 board (P8P67 pro in this case) they have written this:
- Potential Sandybridge issue:
- In some cases, motherboards featuring the 6 Series Chipset (P67 & H67) that have Sata devices connected to ports 2-5 could potentially degrade over time.
- Motherboards with devices connected to Ports 0 & 1 remain unaffected or using the 6Gb/s ports.
- Please note if your board is affected by the above issues, your statutory rights remain to RMA the board.
- Tests have found that under 5% of boards are affected.
- PLEASE NOTE THERE IS NO POTENTIAL ISSUE TO SANDYBRIDGE PROCESSORS
Yet, with AMD you've still had boards with hardware / cpu / chipset compatibility issues. I had an athlon board with a god-awful opti usb chipset that was just one of it's many failings. Friends who had the same board had the same issues.
At least these days these things tend to get picked up and dealt with. Better to know there's an issue and have the law on your side to get it fixed than suffer in silence with a faulty bit of kit while the manufacture plays dumb
It used to be like this:
In the mid and late 90s, back when Sony still made CRT TVs in Wales, they manufactured a batch of faulty teletext chips. They knew they were unreliable, but the cost of the fix was too great so they kept installing them for years in all the TVs. Every single one of them had a bad chip and would randomly overlay a frame of random symbols, sometimes a few times an hour sometimes not for months.
see point only one thing remember intels recall of a defective line of Pentium chips ...
Consider how many other things could have failed and caused 1155 systems to be unusable. In this case it's the SATA 2 controller. What if it was the memory controller packaged with the CPU? Obviously no option of multiple suppliers there. What if the SATA 2 controller was on chip with the CPU? What if the architecture itself was flawed? What if Nvidia's chipset had a probvlem too? It doesn't particularly matter. In this case could a second chipset provider have allowed an alternative? Sure. But it really doesn't matter because there's still various other Intel and AMD sockets.
Ah, well this would explain why I can't access my hard drive.
:(
I too remember that, but the fact is you seem to be stating these problems never hit AMD. I was merely reminding you that AMD has recalled products before. ;)
Ironically, the response to the Pentium flaw which intel initially refused to refund put the media spotlight on intel and combined with a uprise in advertising, propelled it to a household name :)
Based on a long time usage may considered causes the performance problem of SATA 2.0, for the originally native chips and additional SATA3.0 of 6 series, is still stably function and worry-free.
This is a situation happened in all motherboard manufacturers. On behalf of the NO.1 motherboard reputation, the GIGABYTE Technology will take its responsibility for worldwide customers and partners.
We have suspended all the shipping of 6 series B2 stepping based motherboard.
For avoid this impact, GIGABYTE will co-operate with Intels B3 stepping schedule to re-new our new 6 series motherboards to the market. And absorb the cost regarding to this product exchange.
Announcements:
GIGABYTE have stopped shipping out and selling all Intel 6 series B2 stepping based motherboards.
All the Intel 6 series B2 stepping based motherboards stocks are retrieve for all disti, and dealers.
Any sold Intel 6 series B2 stepping based motherboards are accept retrieve in all conditions based on B2 stepping problem.
The Intel new 6 series B3 stepping chipset supply schedule will be in April. GIGABYTE will corporate with Intel exact production schedule, to provide the B3 stepping products to our customer.
The actual cost for retrieving Intel 6 series B2 stepping, all dealers and disti must to keep the receipts indicate the descriptions for further claim approval and internal check.
GIGABYTE will be using brand-new motherboard based on Intel 6 series B3 stepping to produce new 6 series motherboards.
GIGABYTE is sincerely taking its action providing dealers and distis to make all the product exchange for this issue.
And also request all dealers stop selling any B2 stepping base motherboards from now on, and to assist customers how to choose and use the normal SATA 3.0 connector, to avoid SATA 2.0 problems it may be caused. [/url]
Basically telling customers to use SATA 3 where possible until a replacement is available. Expect ASUS, MSI et al to follow suite with similar statements later today.
I was kinda surprised that my Yahoo news feed informed me of this a day or so sooner than BT had :shrug:
And as someone else said earlier, this is also my first time adopting new technology on release.
I haven't even got round to getting my P8P67 out of its anti-static bag yet......I don't know whether to finish building it or not, even if it is for a month or two so I can test the CPU and RAM, and then exchange the board.
I wonder if the returns process will be? Through Asus or through the e-tailer?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yEQSX4biR4
So until then I got 2 months to torture this board before I send it off on a "Warranty Issue" HA ha.
I think this is the best course of action, especially if Asus say that they will RMA any SB rev B2 board whether it is working or not (like Gigabyte have already done).
Being without a rig until sometime in April/May would be a pain.
SCANS LATEST UPDATE
Sandy Bridge Important Accouncement
We have just had Important Update information from Intel, Asus, Msi and Gigabyte 16:30Hrs Today - 01/02/11.
This is an agreement Scan has reached with Intel/Asus/Msi & Gigabyte and is not for the time being a general to all vendors. We suggest you check with your Vendor/Supplier.
All of the above parties have agreed on a intermediate solution to the Sandybridge problem.
As there is No Immediate Danger/Fault and as this fault is likely to affect a small number of boards over time and Replacement Stock will Not be available until realistically in April/May, all the parties above have Guaranteed Direct Swap Out of all P67/H67 Boards bought from Scan should you the end user wish to do so at a later date.
Based on this Swap Out Guarantee We have decided to make all P67/H67 Boards available for sale again.
The Decision to buy and use still lies upon you the end user customer.
How can they continue to sell a board that has been acknowledged as not fit for purpose by the manufacturers? The interesting point is that Scan's announcement says "Direct Swap Out" not vendor . . . .
That is very surprising!!
Likely because waiting till Late March/April will kill alot of business off if they could not continue to trade in some format...its not like they are going to go back to selling 1156/1336 kits, this way computer stores/suppliers can continue to trade knowing they can swap boards out direct with the manufactures later at little/no cost and it allows them to continue to sell sandybridge.
I am a prime example i am going to sink £950 into a new sandybridge system next month including memory and other bits like Psu's/case etc - but was not going too unless i either saw the new boards out or had some sort of assurance i could swap out the board later....if this was not on offer i would hold off till april when the new boards were out as others had also mentioned in the forums and elsewhere...so retailers would miss out on alot of trade in the meantime and not just with sandybridge kit...
edit 2/2/11 - Yay, mañana has arrived and Spain has caught up. All retailers here have pulled their 1155 mobos
I've been trying to start AMD sabotage rumors on other forums :p
Also the announcement of the GTX590, which has yet to be posted here.
"For motherboards, we have confirmed with Intel® that the Cougar Point design error does not affect SATA ports 0 and 1. Additionally, ASUS has been a pioneer in including extra SATA 3Gb/s and SATA 6Gb/s ports beyond Intel® specifications on a wide range of motherboards. These ports are not affected by this design error, offering customers an option for uninterrupted computing"ve
Why would they need to offer a recall why not say, "our stuff is made differently by us so its not affected"?
Because Intel told them to? When you are the biggest gorilla of them all, people do what you say. :D
Who else thinks that rev 3 of the SB boards are going to be the most tested motherboards ever sold?
Because some of the boards have additional controllers that are presumably unaffected but still have the Intel ones.
http://uk.gigabyte.com/press-center/news-page.aspx?nid=988