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AMD, Intel drop D-Sub support

AMD, Intel drop D-Sub support

With big names like Intel, AMD, Dell, and Samsung behind the pledge to kill off D-Sub, can it have long left in the world?

The D-Sub port that provides analogue VGA connectivity on PCs might have been around for a very long time, but it looks like its days are numbered at last: AMD, Dell, Intel, Lenovo, LG Display, and Samsung have issued a joint statement pledging to ditch the port in favour of newer, digital outputs.

The companies, which represent both PC and display manufacturers, have declared that they hold the intention of phasing out support for VGA output in favour of HDMI and the increasingly popular DisplayPort interfaces.

Further, Intel and AMD - both manufacturers of graphics chips for both mainstream and embedded applications - have put a deadline on their plans: by 2015, VGA and LVDS will no longer be supported in any of their products.

Eric Mentzer, Intel's vice president of strategy, claimed in a statement that 'modern digital display interfaces like DisplayPort and HDMI enhance the consumer visual PC experience by immersing them with higher resolutions and deeper colours - all at lower power - to enhance battery life for laptops.'

In a rare show of solidarity, AMD's Eric Demers agreed, stating that 'legacy interfaces such as VGA, DVI and LVDS have not kept pace, and newer standards such as DisplayPort and HDMI clearly provide the best connectivity options moving forward.'

As Demers' comments show, AMD believes that even the digital DVI connection isn't good enough for modern requirements, confirming that AMD's graphics division sees that 'DisplayPort 1.2 is the future interface for PC monitors, along with HDMI 1.4a for TV connectivity.'

While most consumers won't be put out by the lack of LVDS - Low Voltage Differential Signalling - support, the loss of VGA is the end of an era.

Do you support the company's move to rid the world of VGA, or does the analogue output still have a use in today's all-digital world? Share your thoughts over in the forums.

61 Comments

Discuss in the forums Reply
adam_bagpuss 10th December 2010, 16:07 Quote
crap we use VGA over Cat5 to HD TVs quite a lot. HDMI, DVI and display port over cat5 is a lot more expensive !!! DAMMIT.
Bauul 10th December 2010, 16:09 Quote
I visit a lot of different companies with my work and often utilise their video equipment whilst I'm there. The one common connection that everyone has on all their machines is VGA.

Given how fast many companies update their machines, if I rocked up with a laptop that didn't have a VGA socket I'd be very worried. I agree it needs to be phased out, I'm just wary of this sort of situation arising.
Bridaggs 10th December 2010, 16:11 Quote
Haven't used VGA for many years, and stopped using DVI a fair old while ago to. I'm surprised this hasn't happened sooner to be honest, at least on a home consumer level anyway.
schmidtbag 10th December 2010, 16:22 Quote
lol once again everyone is ignoring nvidia. its a shame they want to ditch dvi too, but that port is extremely bulky considering that displayport and hdmi can do the same thing but are much smaller, and hdmi has audio output.

luckily for those who might still want to use older displays in the future, theres still the adapter converters. i haven't seen any displayport to dvi or vga converters, but i'm sure they exist.
Phil Rhodes 10th December 2010, 16:28 Quote
Quote:
Eric Demers agreed, stating that 'legacy interfaces such as VGA, DVI and LVDS have not kept pace, and newer standards such as DisplayPort and HDMI clearly provide the best connectivity options moving forward.

And DVI differs from HDMI because...

Sigh. It would be nice if the people writing these press statements knew at least thing one about their subject.
sb1991 10th December 2010, 16:38 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Rhodes
And DVI differs from HDMI because...

Sigh. It would be nice if the people writing these press statements knew at least thing one about their subject.

Because it generally retains the capability to transmit an analogue (VGA) signal, which they want to get rid of, as well as the digital one.
dworvos 10th December 2010, 17:15 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Rhodes
And DVI differs from HDMI because...

Sigh. It would be nice if the people writing these press statements knew at least thing one about their subject.

There's a DVI-D, DVI-A, and DVI-I spec, I'm assuming they want to phase out the DVI-I and DVI-A.
Quote:
Originally Posted by schmidtbag
lol once again everyone is ignoring nvidia. its a shame they want to ditch dvi too, but that port is extremely bulky considering that displayport and hdmi can do the same thing but are much smaller, and hdmi has audio output.

luckily for those who might still want to use older displays in the future, theres still the adapter converters. i haven't seen any displayport to dvi or vga converters, but i'm sure they exist.

Unfortunately you'd need an active converter as a passive one won't work (the ones you find in video card boxes are passive, they require a DVI-I or DVI-A signal to be present from the video device).

There's a wealth of good info on the wikipedia page about DVI:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Visual_Interface
Sloth 10th December 2010, 18:20 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Rhodes
And DVI differs from HDMI because...

Sigh. It would be nice if the people writing these press statements knew at least thing one about their subject.
Aside from the various specs of DVI aspect covered above, HDMI is superior because it can carry audio and takes up less space. In place of two DVI ports on the back of a video card there could instead be three, maybe even four HDMI ports.

Additionally, read the rest of the article. Part of their reasoning is that DisplayPort will be used for PCs. So DVI isn't actually being replaced by HDMI at all, it's being replaced by DisplayPort. HDMI is used for TVs which rarely have DVI in the first place, though some have VGA.
CharlO 10th December 2010, 18:24 Quote
Nothing that is 1.x is the future of nothing, a 2.0 will come and crush it.
thehippoz 10th December 2010, 18:36 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by adam_bagpuss
crap we use VGA over Cat5 to HD TVs quite a lot. HDMI, DVI and display port over cat5 is a lot more expensive !!! DAMMIT.

this.. with cat5 cable you can go pretty far over analogue
azrael- 10th December 2010, 18:37 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sloth
Aside from the various specs of DVI aspect covered above, HDMI is superior because it can carry audio and takes up less space. In place of two DVI ports on the back of a video card there could instead be three, maybe even four HDMI ports.

Additionally, read the rest of the article. Part of their reasoning is that DisplayPort will be used for PCs. So DVI isn't actually being replaced by HDMI at all, it's being replaced by DisplayPort. HDMI is used for TVs which rarely have DVI in the first place, though some have VGA.
Just FYI, DVI can carry audio as well. Like with HDMI audio and video is interleaved.

And connector-wise DVI is vastly superior to both HDMI and DisplayPort. Why? Well, for one you can actually securely attach it with screws. Something neither HDMI nor DP can. Unsurprisingly just like SATA. I've seen my fair share of SATA and HDMI cables pop out of their slots. Good protocols, lousy connectors. There seems to be some sort of competition as to who can come up with the most lousy connector...

As for killing off the DSUB15 (VGA) connector, no problem. Just keep DVI-I around and all is fine.
Sloth 10th December 2010, 18:48 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by azrael-
Just FYI, DVI can carry audio as well. Like with HDMI audio and video is interleaved.

And connector-wise DVI is vastly superior to both HDMI and DisplayPort. Why? Well, for one you can actually securely attach it with screws. Something neither HDMI nor DP can. Unsurprisingly just like SATA. I've seen my fair share of SATA and HDMI cables pop out of their slots. Good protocols, lousy connectors. There seems to be some sort of competition as to who can come up with the most lousy connector...

As for killing off the DSUB15 (VGA) connector, no problem. Just keep DVI-I around and all is fine.
Good to know. Never seen that used, likely because no TV (which HDMI is to be used for) I've seen has used DVI as an video+audio input from a PC. TVs already have a wealth of HMDI inputs available, making PCs be able to use those even in the mainstream market is an excellent move to reduce the number of connectors needed on both ends to ensure compatability with all of a user's potential needs.

We've also seemed to have the exact opposite of screw in connector experiences. :) I've witnessed a couple incidents from clutzy friends at lan parties who trip on a screwed in cable and ended up taking down their monitor and one time even knocking over a case. Haven't screwed in any cables which may be exposed ever since. And of course if it's not exposed then it shouldn't fall out! But it would seem YMMV on that.
Floyd 10th December 2010, 18:48 Quote
YAY This news is just as good as floppy, IDE and PS2 ports dropping from mobos!
Kill off all the legacy!
sixfootsideburns 10th December 2010, 18:49 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sloth
And connector-wise DVI is vastly superior to both HDMI and DisplayPort. Why? Well, for one you can actually securely attach it with screws. Something neither HDMI nor DP can. Unsurprisingly just like SATA. I've seen my fair share of SATA and HDMI cables pop out of their slots. Good protocols, lousy connectors. There seems to be some sort of competition as to who can come up with the most lousy connector...

As for killing off the DSUB15 (VGA) connector, no problem. Just keep DVI-I around and all is fine.

+1... exactly what I was going to say.
l3v1ck 10th December 2010, 19:45 Quote
Can't say I blame them, it's very outdated now. My TFT is 5 years old and has digital connections.
supermonkey 10th December 2010, 19:56 Quote
I remember a short time ago reading that the industry giants were considering phasing out HDMI in favor of video and audio over ethernet. One of the benefits, aside from higher bandwidth, was the open nature of ethernet as opposed to the licensed HDMI standard. Are they now abandoning that idea?

This just in, Monster has revised its economic outlook to take into account all the $100 phoenix-tail-feather-dipped-in-unicorn-blood cables. It is, after all, the only cable that supports deep color 3D True-HD video on your cheap LCD monitor.
deathtaker27 10th December 2010, 19:57 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Floyd
YAY This news is just as good as floppy, IDE and PS2 ports dropping from mobos!
Kill off all the legacy!

IDE still exists though? :(
necroscop 10th December 2010, 20:02 Quote
Can HDMI support anything more then HD 1080 on all boxes it say max 1920x1080.
PC monitor market its way ahead of TV market, are TV standards will support monitors like 2560x1600. And in next few years we will see PC monitors with much higher resolution, as demonstrate by Dell. Is this mean I will need 2 or more HDMI cables to run with high resolution or we will have to pay for very expensive HDMI cable which support high resolution.
What we need its completely new chip standard which will work with everything. What they doing now it next money making scum. As we all will have to buy new HDMI cables even if there its nothing wrong with DVI
Floyd 10th December 2010, 20:10 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by deathtaker27
IDE still exists though? :(
I didnt think you could buy an IDE drive anymore. I thought everything was sata.
Who would buy IDE over sata anywho?
Fizzban 10th December 2010, 20:12 Quote
I've not used the VGA connection since the end of 2004. I'm more concerned with them phasing out DVI quite honestly, as I still use that. I do have a DVI - HDMI adapter somewhere though, so all is not lost!
HourBeforeDawn 10th December 2010, 20:58 Quote
Ya Im a okay with it as well.
Eiffie 10th December 2010, 21:04 Quote
It's been about a good 5 years since I've used anything with a VGA connection in my home setup. Everything I use is either DVI or HDMI right now. I'd be more than happy to see the VGA connection go out the window and stick with the later two choices. I could see how some people might be upset by this news but to be honest, it's not a very big deal as far as I see it. Others might have a different opinion but 2015 is still a ways off, there is still time to buy your precious VGA connections before they are fazed out for good if that's your thing.
supermonkey 10th December 2010, 21:42 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by necroscop
Can HDMI support anything more then HD 1080 on all boxes it say max 1920x1080.
There is a difference between devices designed to support an HDMI specification, and the cables that carry the signal. Read here for additional information, especially the page about HDMI 1.4 and the page that talks about what the different specifications mean.

The current HDMI 1.4 specification supports 4K resolution, which means any device that is HDMI 1.4 compliant can output a 4K picture - far beyond 1080 resolution. All HDMI cables are built to the same specification (with the exception of the added Ethernet and Audio return channel introduced in Specification 1.4), so they will all transmit a 4K signal. If you're not sure whether or not you need an Ethernet or Audio return channel, then you don't need one.
l3v1ck 10th December 2010, 21:50 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by deathtaker27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Floyd
YAY This news is just as good as floppy, IDE and PS2 ports dropping from mobos!
Kill off all the legacy!

IDE still exists though? :(
On Intel boards it's through a 3rd party chip. Intel southbridge chips haven't supported IDE for a while.
Isitari 10th December 2010, 22:03 Quote
oh dear. Every single school I have ever worked in for the last 5+ years only runs off VGA projectors. Even the schools with newer equipment could only possibly run them off DVI at a push, certainly not HDMI or DisplayPort.

There may be trouble ahead especially with the budget cuts.
Delphium 11th December 2010, 03:01 Quote
This is not such an issue really wth the use of displayport, as there are DP>VGA/DVI/HDMI adaptors available, I use a couple myself to power projectors in the living room from my 5870E6 card which uses nothing but Mini-DP connecitons.

Displayport 1.2 spec there is 17.28 Gbit/s (720 MHz) of avaiable bandwidth able to provide 4k x 2k picture, 7.1 audio, ethernet, power, usb and not forgetting the ability to daisy chain or split by use of a hub 4 indipendent monitors @ 1080p off of a single port from the pc/laptop.
It is also a royalty free connector.

So really there is no worry in most cases as there are cheap enough adaptors should they be needed.

On the flip side, as an audio visual eningeer, where I have done a number of audatorium/cinema/flight sim and many other installs where we would work from a drum of VGA cable and solder on our own connectors.
Often so that it is easyer to draw cables though thick walls and tight corners and spaces specially inside up/down of walls, the newer digital connectors are a bit more tricky to solder due to the tight pin spacing although we often then switch to using cat5 balons this starts to put the price up again.
l3v1ck 11th December 2010, 05:18 Quote
I wonder if Nvidia will still have VGA on some low end cards? They'd have captive market for people that don't wantvto replace expensive projectors etc.
llamafur 11th December 2010, 05:20 Quote
Finally, took them long enough. Now do away with IDE.
Anakha 11th December 2010, 07:44 Quote
As a thought, isn't the LCD panel on every single laptop out there connected using LVDS? How's that going to work, then?
Krayzie_B.o.n.e. 11th December 2010, 08:12 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by llamafur
Finally, took them long enough. Now do away with IDE.

IDE is gone most new mobos are sata only but you can still buy mobos w/ IDE if you must have it.

VGA should have been gone when HDMI and DVI were released.
PingCrosby 11th December 2010, 10:43 Quote
D-Sub? Bloody ell, I thought it stood for something else, I'd better get that graphics card out the bath.
wuyanxu 11th December 2010, 10:56 Quote
come on, get rid of DVI while we are at it. from my understanding, LVDS is still needed for DVI and HDMI.

Displayport is the way forward.

be honest here, which one would you rather use? one that is easily plugged in or one that requires you to screw two fiddly thumb screws, and graphics card often have loose screws after a couple uses.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/wuyanxu/WyXQuad_BuildLog/9ce60a48.jpg
NethLyn 11th December 2010, 11:41 Quote
My first ever PCI-E graphics card, a Radeon, came with a DVI to HDMI converter back in 2008 so it's been on the cards for a long time. Since it's a HDMI 1.3 port on the monitor and god knows what on the GPU, I'm perfectly happy with DVI for the minute as the cable was in the box, gratis. That AMD press release is all about trying to flog new cables yet again.

VGA/D-SUB is what, 15-20 years old at least? By all means phase it out, but since every single card across all 4 buses has had this interface and both AMD/Intel were happy to put it on their integrated GPU boards depending on price up to early this year, it's a "zombie" that will be kept alive through conversion - there isn't going to be a mass junking of early TFTs that were VGA only for a start.
tad2008 11th December 2010, 12:31 Quote
Seeing VGA finally relegated to being a part of PC history will be one of the truly historic moments for some of us.

The loss of DVI won't be such a bad thing as don't think it really ever took off as much as could have been hoped. Hearing of Intel UDI to replace it just muddies the waters for the consumer and is not something I will ever care to use.

For me HDMI is the way to go and to have PC's properly incorporate audio in to the HDMI stream would be a marvel in itself. For those who prefer to keep their audio and video seperate, display port already offers the next best alternative.
Aracos 11th December 2010, 13:43 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by wuyanxu
come on, get rid of DVI while we are at it. from my understanding, LVDS is still needed for DVI and HDMI.

Displayport is the way forward.

be honest here, which one would you rather use? one that is easily plugged in or one that requires you to screw two fiddly thumb screws, and graphics card often have loose screws after a couple uses.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/wuyanxu/WyXQuad_BuildLog/9ce60a48.jpg

TBH I don't think it's fair to say DVI requires the screws, I never use mine because I'm always swapping out DVI between my xbox and pc and I never get it falling out unless I actually move the cable. But yes I'd rather have displayport but TBH I'd rather nvidia got off their arse and supported it before others get phased out.
j_jay4 11th December 2010, 15:02 Quote
Surely the vast majority of desktop owners are using graphics cards with DVI and VGA connectors and monitors with the same. This is therefore eventually going to result in a grpahics upgrade that requires a new monitor. I'm not gonna be happy to fork out more money to replace a 23 inch monitor that is perfectly adequate as monitors tend to stay around much longer than computer upgrades.
Iorek 11th December 2010, 16:08 Quote
While I cant' complain about old interfaces being phased out, some of us still use them... TV's tend to have VGA rather than DVI, granted there are more mobo's now for media pcs with integrated hdmi so this is less of an issue. Why should we be forced to upgrade monitors? If its not broken.... I'm still using my old 1280x1024 Samsung from about 6 years ago, works fine and I see no reason to upgrade. While, yes, in that time I've had several graphics cards, I feel that monitors / tvs are definitely designed to last much longer than the hardware the drives them.
wuyanxu 11th December 2010, 17:40 Quote
i think the point is not to force people to buy new monitors. The point is to phase out this old technology. AMD and Intel are two of the biggest players in producing graphics processors, and their decision will mean producing boards without D-sub/VGA interface.

if you have old display that still want to be used, then it's all possible through displayport, just need an adaptor.




continue on subject of adaptors, why are DVI still around? displayport with a passive adaptor can drive any average monitor. i really wish these technology companies can be as brutal as Apple. just one day release a HTPC motherboard with two sockets: HDMI + DisplayPort. then bundle adaptors to DVI and sell active adaptors to VGA. it will make everything sooooooooooo simple.

now, with D-SUB/VGA being phased out, DVI will be installed across cooperate projectors. and that technology is also due to be phased out by Displayport in coming years. why not just go straight to DP?



to be brutally honest, i don't like the fact monitors are dropping D-SUB support. i wish those analogue ports will be around forever. reason being those ports are so easy to drive. any microcontroller with some resistors can be used to drive them. DVI/DP/HDMI on the other hand requires a lot of protocol complications.


so, i'd say: drop all ports and standardise DisplayPort for computer, HDMI for TV's. and keep VGA/D-sub on new monitors.
Picarro 11th December 2010, 17:46 Quote
I can't fathom why we don't just have 1 standard for AV equipment? Something like a HDMI/DP *******-child. Would make everything so much easier.
Phoenixlight 11th December 2010, 20:33 Quote
HDMI is worse than DVI, I don't see why anyone would think otherwise.
Picarro 11th December 2010, 20:49 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenixlight
HDMI is worse than DVI, I don't see why anyone would think otherwise.

Please do tell why?
yakyb 11th December 2010, 21:45 Quote
HDMI and DVI are exactly the same bar the screws
yakyb 11th December 2010, 21:47 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Picarro
I can't fathom why we don't just have 1 standard for AV equipment? Something like a HDMI/DP *******-child. Would make everything so much easier.

because multiple companies lisence different adaptors from other companies plus there needs to be legacy support still, (****ing FDD and IDE on mobos)
MSHunter 11th December 2010, 23:05 Quote
Just come out with the displays using CAT5 cables and I'll be very happy. They are working on a standard using CAT5 for Video transmission.
azrael- 12th December 2010, 00:47 Quote
I'm not really sure from where people get the idea that DisplayPort (DP) is easily backwards compatible with e.g. VGA. DP, like HDMI, is a purely digital interface. Sure, you can *convert* signals to (and possibly from) VGA, but not with a simple adapter. You need an active adapter for that, which costs a small fortune.

Right now, the only universally usable display connector is DVI-I. And yes, personally I'd much rather have DVI than HDMI or DP *because* of the screws.

To put it bluntly the connectors for HDMI and DP (and, like previously mentioned, SATA) are designed by idiots. It doesn't really help that there actually *is* a version of the HDMI connector with a locking mechanism ...for use in cars!
knuck 12th December 2010, 00:53 Quote
I just want my current monitor to be compatible for several more years ...
Alexg 12th December 2010, 03:54 Quote
We seem to get on fine without screws on USB sockets so why do you need them on display port - the cable is a lot smaller than DVI cables so supporting the cable weight at the socket is less of an issue.
Oggyb 12th December 2010, 03:58 Quote
I still use a Mitsubishi CRT with a VGA interface. I've been using this wonderful beast since 2004 and would like to continue using it for another 6 years if possible, thanks Intel, et al.
blackerthanblack 13th December 2010, 10:09 Quote
So if LVDS is being phased out does this mean that laptop displays will finally be interchangeable, and mods/replacements will at last be much easier?

To have laptops with a simple Displayport connector, or at least compatible pin outs would be long overdue.
Culinia 13th December 2010, 10:29 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Floyd
YAY This news is just as good as floppy, IDE and PS2 ports dropping from mobos!
Kill off all the legacy!

Nooo. I need PS/2 for my keyboards!!!

Oh well. I guess we need some modernization.

Bring in the new bios, get rid of all legacy support. Computer revolution (or more like a long needed evolution?)

We should just standardize DisplayPort on all computers. One connection is simpler. Less cost manufacturing all these different things -- looks untidy as well.
Xir 13th December 2010, 10:39 Quote
Why DP and HDMI...
Wouldn't just HDMI suffice?
wuyanxu 13th December 2010, 11:29 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xir
Why DP and HDMI...
Wouldn't just HDMI suffice?

DP is for professional monitors at the moment, DP is the only interface that supports 10 bit colour and 2560x1600 at 60Hz all at the same time.

HDMI Is for consumer televisions where as displayport is chip-to-chip for monitors. There are a LOT more benefits for use on computer monitor if you use DP over HDMI or DVI.
Phoenixlight 13th December 2010, 11:48 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Picarro
Please do tell why?

DVI can support 120hz and resolutions above 1920x1080.
Fizzban 13th December 2010, 11:54 Quote
Roll on the day when its just 1 universal connector rather than 6 different ones..:(
Xir 13th December 2010, 12:58 Quote
Quote:
DP is the only interface that supports 10 bit colour and 2560x1600 at 60Hz all at the same time
Uhhh, Mkay, HDMI1.4a:
upto 3840 × 2160
24 bit RGB/36 bit YUV, Deep Color 30, 36 und 48 bit RGB/YUV, xvYCC

Probably not at 120Hz though...:D
Fabou 13th December 2010, 17:58 Quote
S*** there goes my screen.
supermonkey 13th December 2010, 20:25 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by wuyanxu
DP is for professional monitors at the moment, DP is the only interface that supports 10 bit colour and 2560x1600 at 60Hz all at the same time.
That's incorrect; the HDMI standard has supported those parameters since at least version 1.3. DisplayPort does have a some of advantages, though, primarily that it is royalty-free.
Gradius 16th December 2010, 01:11 Quote
HDBaseT is the future, NOT HDMI !
Cthippo 16th December 2010, 01:32 Quote
Aren't a lot of the cheaper flat panels still coming with VGA? I know that's what my 4 run off of.

Methinks this may be a bit premature
PCBuilderSven 12th July 2011, 18:13 Quote
So Baisically, becuase there droping DVI support, Im going to need to go and buy a HDMI to DVI adapter. Not that there's really any difference between them, but DVI now suddenly sucks and HDMI is suddenely absolutely amazing. I can understand VGA and D-Sub but why DVI?
HourBeforeDawn 12th July 2011, 18:31 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCBuilderSven
So Baisically, becuase there droping DVI support, Im going to need to go and buy a HDMI to DVI adapter. Not that there's really any difference between them, but DVI now suddenly sucks and HDMI is suddenely absolutely amazing. I can understand VGA and D-Sub but why DVI?

no, they are not dropping DVI, they are dropping VGA (D-Sub). And going all digital.
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