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Rumour: Two GeForce GTX 460s planned?

Rumour: Two GeForce GTX 460s planned?

The upcoming Nvidia GF104 die shot, via Expreview.

There have been plenty of rumours circling about Nvidia's next Fermi card, codenamed GF104 and supposedly set to be called GeForce GTX 460. We've rounded up the best from our sources here in Taiwan.

Firstly - a couple of manufacturers told us about the GTX 460 during Computex, and we reported:
  • 8.5 inches long (Radeon HD 5770 length)
  • 192-bit memory interface
  • 768MB GDDR5 memory
  • Early-mid July availability
  • 180W TDP
Fudzilla recently expanded on this with reports of not one but two GTX 460s:
  • One with 1GB of GDDR5 memory and a 256-bit interface
  • Another with 768MB of GDDR5 and 192-bit interface
  • Possible GTS nomenclature on other GF104 parts
They also reported that the chip would be a "good overclocker" which is similar to what we heard at Computex as well. It has been mulled that this is because the GF104 drops the large L2 cache seen on previous Fermi GPUs.

Chinese website Expreview then claimed to have screenshots of the Nvidia drivers with the specs listed as follows:
  • 336 Stream processors
  • 675MHz core clock,
  • 1,350MHz shader clock,
  • 768MB of GDDR5 memory
  • 1,800MHz (3,600MHz effective) memory frequency
  • 192-bit memory interface
  • 150W TDP
This was also confirmed by Fudzilla, which mulled the shader block granularity had changed from 32 to 24, making their claim of to two GTX 460 cards work if the "full" GF104 has:
  • 16 blocks of 24 shaders giving 384 SPs and a 256-bit memory interface
While the "crippled" (their words, not ours) GF104 has:
  • 14 blocks of 24 shaders giving 336 SPs and a 192-bit memory interface
Expreview also posted photos from yet another Chinese website showing a rectangular GF104 branded die shot, with aluminium heatspreader stating A1 silicon.

The launch date being thrown around right now is Monday 12th of July, just under a month away, which means the cards should already be on a boat out of the Chinese factories in order to reach retailers in time for that date.

Is Nvidia planning to replace the GeForce GTX 470 - or even GTX 465 - already? Or is Nvidia repeating the GTX 260 situation, where it had two versions of a very similar card? Let us know your thoughts, in the forums.

44 Comments

Discuss in the forums Reply
Bakes 18th June 2010, 11:56 Quote
Odd. I'd say that everything at this stage is still out in the open, and Fudzilla is not known for it's accuracy. Even the name implies rumours. Same with Expreview - they're all not totally trustworthy.

The GTX260s were not launched at the same time, and only came about because nVidia had improved yields enough for them to be viable.

I reckon that this will be like the 8800 series, where you have the GTX460, the GTS460 and others, where the only difference is that different cards have been locked down to lower performances.
wuyanxu 18th June 2010, 12:00 Quote
nvidia could be going on the strategy of having the prefix indicate what chip is inside: GTX for GF100, GTS for GF104 and so on.

could this mean their new gaming will actually start to make sense?
Bakes 18th June 2010, 12:01 Quote
Almost certainly not :D
proxess 18th June 2010, 12:05 Quote
I'm finding those 786MB GPUs rather odd... You sure it's not 768?
javaman 18th June 2010, 12:17 Quote
This should perform around the 5770 I think. All depends on pricing tho since ATI have cemented their position in the market its now up to Nvidia to challange. Any news if the 465 will continue production or not?
rickysio 18th June 2010, 12:32 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by wuyanxu
nvidia could be going on the strategy of having the prefix indicate what chip is inside: GTX for GF100, GTS for GF104 and so on.

could this mean their new gaming will actually start to make sense?

That'd happen when nVidia manages to diespin the full GF100 core to run with a 100W TDP with 1GHz and above speeds... AKA not in the realm of possibility.
GoodBytes 18th June 2010, 14:21 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bakes
Odd. I'd say that everything at this stage is still out in the open, and Fudzilla is not known for it's accuracy. Even the name implies rumours. Same with Expreview - they're all not totally trustworthy.
Hmmmm, not sure sure about that, not this time :)

I don't expect to be a miracle fixed Fermi (high gaming performance and low heat), but Improvements on it, like a new revision.
Personally, knowing Nvidia GPU release history, I would wait for Fermi "- take 2" (if you know what I mean) architecture.
Remember when Nvidia released one of their best GPU architecture ever the G92. That awesome overclockable GPU, and with simple tweaks on the chip lead to make Nvidia stay #1 with all their models in term of performance? Well I expect something similar out of Fermi "- take 2". Maybe not a crazy GPU as the G92, but at least one that is very powerful, possibly beat Radeon 6000 series when it will come out, and produce low heat.
runadumb 18th June 2010, 15:17 Quote
Fermi needs a die shrink asap. I think I will be in the market for a card next month for the parents pc but its looking like a 5770.
Bindibadgi 18th June 2010, 17:20 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by proxess
I'm finding those 786MB GPUs rather odd... You sure it's not 768?

Yea yea its 68. I keep bloody typoing it fingers before brain.
Teh C 18th June 2010, 17:28 Quote
I predict 5770 performance for give or take £5 on a 5830's price, while consuming as much power as a 5850 and as hot as a 48xx card.
perplekks45 18th June 2010, 19:38 Quote
nVidia pretty has the image of a constantly failing company it seems. I do not expect much from this either but I think it'll be a decent performer but priced out of competitive stages again.
GoodBytes 18th June 2010, 19:44 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by perplekks45
nVidia pretty has the image of a constantly failing company it seems. I do not expect much from this either but I think it'll be a decent performer but priced out of competitive stages again.

LOL, just because they failed Fermi, now they have a history of constantly failing?
I think you are confusing Intel GPU with Nvidia ones.
Goty 18th June 2010, 21:06 Quote
Sure, there will be a 384SP GTX460 the same way that there was a 512SP GTX480 =P
thehippoz 18th June 2010, 22:06 Quote
man I would have thought they ran out of lipstick by now
Simnol 18th June 2010, 23:12 Quote
Anyone else still not overly impressed with how this turned out :(
Bakes 18th June 2010, 23:26 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simnol
Anyone else still not overly impressed with how this turned out :(

It's getting more competitive. The GTX470 can now be had for around £290, a good £30 less than 5870s.

If you're doing SLI, that (bar heat and noise) makes it competitive.

Single card, maybe not so good, but it's at least getting better. GTX465, at least it's actually the same price as the 5850. It's still slower, but it's better than £25 more and slower.

I hope that this is nVidia's R600. Something that they get ridiculed for now, but they then tweak it a bit, make it a lot cheaper, improve it and then it's more competitive. Remember, the 3870 was pretty much a much cheaper version of the 2900xt.
Adnoctum 18th June 2010, 23:43 Quote
This stinks of continuing manufacturing problems. They've designed a part that removes large sections of Fermi that cripples it's ability to compete on price/performance, as well as reduces the probability of defects and raise yields, and they still can't release a chip that is at or near to the original design specifications. When are we going to see the full fat 512-shader Ultra485? Even if it is some mythical halo part, that hasn't stopped nVidia in the past.

And why is it the GTX460 if it is a supposed 5770 competitor? Surely GTS460 is more appropriate?
Hurry up nVidia and release something that will have some hope of pushing down prices!!



Completely off topic: I'm watching a music video show while lurking bit-tech, and I just had a thought. Given how feminine Justin Bieber's appearance, manner and voice is, as well as "he" seemingly doesn't have Y chromosome, wouldn't all these girls getting "flushed" over him be enjoying a lesbian crush?
In all meanings of the term: http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/04/26/2882428.htm
I'd like to see anyone work themselves up into a gushing frenzy over Tom Waits!
Further to this, I'd like to announce that I am Copywriting "Gushing Frenzy (C)" and using it as my Steam name.
quickstream 18th June 2010, 23:55 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodBytes
Hmmmm, not sure sure about that, not this time :)

I don't expect to be a miracle fixed Fermi (high gaming performance and low heat), but Improvements on it, like a new revision.
Personally, knowing Nvidia GPU release history, I would wait for Fermi "- take 2" (if you know what I mean) architecture.
Remember when Nvidia released one of their best GPU architecture ever the G92. That awesome overclockable GPU, and with simple tweaks on the chip lead to make Nvidia stay #1 with all their models in term of performance? Well I expect something similar out of Fermi "- take 2". Maybe not a crazy GPU as the G92, but at least one that is very powerful, possibly beat Radeon 6000 series when it will come out, and produce low heat.


i agree with you here this chip needs to age a bit get some usuage so problems can be fixxed their next big gfx card with this chip im near certain will be a big hit iv always been a fan of nVidia which im sure you all know its hard to be a fan of them they change names of their chips are almost always late, when they **** up its usually big and they can disapoint but keep in mind back in the days the gtx295 held the market and it wasnt even a new architechture (sorry about the spelling) it was merly a revamped old chip
ian8415 19th June 2010, 00:27 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bakes


It's getting more competitive. The GTX470 can now be had for around £290, a good £30 less than 5870s.

If you're doing SLI, that (bar heat and noise) makes it competitive.

Single card, maybe not so good, but it's at least getting better. GTX465, at least it's actually the same price as the 5870. It's still slower, but it's better than £25 more and slower.

No its not, GTX465 is the same price as 5850
Bakes 19th June 2010, 00:36 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by ian8415
No its not, GTX465 is the same price as 5850

Sorry, slight typo :D

(fixed now).

My point still stands, it's still £25 better than it was, all fermi cards in fact have had a ten percent price drop and I can only think that will have a good increase in sales in the future.

I know people who have 200cfm delta fans strapped to their cpu coolers, and for those the increased heat generated by nVidia cards will not be a problem.
Elton 19th June 2010, 05:15 Quote
That small bus is more likely. But i'm willing to bet that they're going to another revision of this GTX460 like they did with the 8800GS/9600GSO/9600GSO.
Grape Flavor 19th June 2010, 06:12 Quote
Given that GF104 in SLI will sport 40-60% more units than GTX 480, yet have a similar price, I hereby suggest that bit-tech run SLI benchmarks when reviewing.This isn't just a midrange product, this is big and could shake up the entire high end market.
knutjb 19th June 2010, 06:24 Quote
They need to hurry up if they plan to cover the market with new chips before the next gen ATI cards show. ATI put out a very wide range of well thought out cards rather quickly, Nvidia seems to be struggling with how to name defective chunks of silicon.
Bindibadgi 19th June 2010, 06:27 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grape Flavor
Given that GF104 in SLI will sport 40-60% more units than GTX 480, yet have a similar price, I hereby suggest that bit-tech run SLI benchmarks when reviewing.This isn't just a midrange product, this is big and could shake up the entire high end market.

Good call - 336x2=672!. Now we just need TWO and SLI drivers
Grape Flavor 19th June 2010, 06:49 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bindibadgi
Good call - 336x2=672!. Now we just need TWO and SLI drivers

Yeah the logistics might be tough but it presents a very interesting value proposition. Of course it'll be interesting to see how much power it takes though. Luckily that can be calculated just by multiplying by two. :)
Bindibadgi 19th June 2010, 07:54 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grape Flavor
Yeah the logistics might be tough but it presents a very interesting value proposition. Of course it'll be interesting to see how much power it takes though. Luckily that can be calculated just by multiplying by two. :)

The problem is you'll be limited to 768MB of memory on the cheaper cards even in SLI, so at very high resolution and/or AA you'll be crippled. Unless some companies offer double capacity - but at what price?? The only current GDDR5 double density cards are limited to the most premium Radeon models.
thehippoz 19th June 2010, 17:50 Quote
yep and drivers need to be updated often.. it's a pain to run more than a single gpu- 768 should be enough to run 1080p though

wish nvidia would set on date on the fermi shrink.. bet ati is going to release the gobbler when that happens though.. you know anything about it bindi?
perplekks45 19th June 2010, 17:50 Quote
I didn't say they failed constantly. What I said was that it seems, judging by all those posts above me, that people THINK they constantly fail.

I'd be glad to stand corrected though if/when nVidia show off a card that blows everyone away again.
Elton 20th June 2010, 04:17 Quote
Nvidia hasn't really failed, they've just become underwhelming. Which really shouldn't be too surprising. The G80 and G92 were pretty difficult chips to topple, the GT200 not really doing a good job of it, and the GF100 while doing it, was tied with the other team.

It's kind of like the ATI and their H2xxx series, huge X1950XTX then, a chip that wasn't so good.
Bindibadgi 20th June 2010, 05:44 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elton
was tied with the other team.

That's a stretch. GF100 has been consistently hotter, louder, with poor idle power and costs more than every Radeon on the market. GF104 could be better. I certainly hope so for the sake of the market!

GTS 250 vs 4850 again! Yay!
Elton 20th June 2010, 07:05 Quote
Okay, in terms of overall, it's not a tie.

In terms of performance, at least it delivers well enough.
Star*Dagger 20th June 2010, 22:07 Quote
Wake me up when nVidia has something to compete with against the Supremacy of ATI. I wish nVidia luck in their endeavors, ATI has been king of the hill for over 2 years now.
Elton 20th June 2010, 22:09 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Star*Dagger
Wake me up when nVidia has something to compete with against the Supremacy of ATI. I wish nVidia luck in their endeavors, ATI has been king of the hill for over 2 years now.

I disagree, Nvidia was still and still is performance king, well not so much anymore, but they were the top when it came to performance, just not efficiency.
bagman 20th June 2010, 23:53 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Star*Dagger
Wake me up when nVidia has something to compete with against the Supremacy of ATI. I wish nVidia luck in their endeavors, ATI has been king of the hill for over 2 years now.

at least nividia arn't that far behind like ATI where in 2006 when the 8800gtx came out ATI didn't have a card which came close till the 4XXX seris came out
Pete J 21st June 2010, 00:02 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Star*Dagger
Wake me up when nVidia has something to compete with against the Supremacy of ATI. I wish nVidia luck in their endeavors, ATI has been king of the hill for over 2 years now.
How do you figure? IIRC, the 5000 series launched in September 2009, so it's been out for 9-10 months. While this generation of cards isn't so clear cut, the 200 series was better than the 4000 series.
Bakes 21st June 2010, 00:08 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete J
How do you figure? IIRC, the 5000 series launched in September 2009, so it's been out for 9-10 months. While this generation of cards isn't so clear cut, the 200 series was better than the 4000 series.

4000s tended to be better value than their GT200 rivals. This time last year, I bought a GTX285, but I could have bought a superior 4870x2 at the same time. I chose not to because I'd heard bad things about ATI linux support (though my 5870 handles linux just fine).
Elton 21st June 2010, 00:24 Quote
The HD4xxxx were perhaps better value, but in sheer performance the GT200 still took the trophy.
crazyceo 21st June 2010, 00:43 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bakes
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete J
How do you figure? IIRC, the 5000 series launched in September 2009, so it's been out for 9-10 months. While this generation of cards isn't so clear cut, the 200 series was better than the 4000 series.

4000s tended to be better value than their GT200 rivals. This time last year, I bought a GTX285, but I could have bought a superior 4870x2 at the same time. I chose not to because I'd heard bad things about ATI linux support (though my 5870 handles linux just fine).

But you are confusing a single card with a sandwich card and that opens a whole lot more questions. The GTX285 was the best SINGLE card at the time. Much like the GTX480 is now ;-p
Bakes 21st June 2010, 01:06 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyceo
But you are confusing a single card with a sandwich card and that opens a whole lot more questions. The GTX285 was the best SINGLE card at the time. Much like the GTX480 is now ;-p

http://www.pugetsystems.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/4870x2_internal.jpg

Single card, no? I appreciate that you're talking about the number of GPUs, but regardless of technicalities, the 4870x2 did offer significantly more performance than the GTX285 for roughly the same price (about £10 more IIRC), and that is what I was talking about in my post. If you want to break it down into GPUs, then yes, at the high end nVidia won both this round and last, but in reality it probably won neither due to the slightly uncompetitive prices it used, except for perhaps the GTX260 which seemed to sell very well.

tl;dr:
The question was "Which offers more performance for your money?" rather than "What GPU is faster?"
thehippoz 21st June 2010, 01:06 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyceo
But you are confusing a single card with a sandwich card and that opens a whole lot more questions. The GTX285 was the best SINGLE card at the time. Much like the GTX480 is now ;-p

think the only one making the sandwich cards are nvidia :D
Mraedis 21st June 2010, 05:36 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyceo
But you are confusing a single card with a sandwich card and that opens a whole lot more questions. The GTX285 was the best SINGLE card at the time. Much like the GTX480 is now ;-p

Except it isn't exactly ahead of the 5870.
crazyceo 21st June 2010, 09:53 Quote
It maybe hot, noisy and power hungry but whether it be due to driver revisions for some reason it has nudged itself ahead in the single card market. It's not based on cost, just performance and if you read topics on this independent site, they have come to the same conclusions.
Pete J 21st June 2010, 10:23 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bakes
4000s tended to be better value than their GT200 rivals. This time last year, I bought a GTX285, but I could have bought a superior 4870x2 at the same time. I chose not to because I'd heard bad things about ATI linux support (though my 5870 handles linux just fine).
Yeah, sorry I didn't make what I was thinking clear. As you say, ATI were better value for the 4000 series compared to the 200 series but the 200 series had no drawbacks such as heat and noise.

My friend had a 4870x2 for a week, found that the drivers were crap (at the time) and the thing to be ridiculously noisy, which I can verify. He then switched to a 280 and was happier.
bw67958 21st June 2010, 10:53 Quote
With a bit of luck the range may force ATI to drop prices! You never know!!!
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