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Dell to sell Linux PCs

Dell to sell Linux PCs

"Dude, you got Ubuntu" - Dell will soon sell PCs with Linux distros on them.

Who here thinks companies actually listen at all to the consumer surveys? Most of us don't hold even the slightest hope that anyone is actually going to implement our ideas. However, one did - the customer spoke, and Dell listened. And the Texas-based computer manufacturer will start offering Linux PCs soon.

Dell arrived at the conclusion after tallying the results of over 1,800 different submissions for new products or services. The ideas came from Dell's recent "Dell IdeaStorm" site, which was started on February 16th by Michael Dell himself. Barely a week out, the company has already seen one idea floating to the top.

Dell addressed the matter in a post on the site:

"Your feedback has been all about flexibility and we have seen a consistent request to provide platforms that allow people to install their operating system of choice. We are listening, and as a result, we are working with Novell to certify our corporate client products for Linux, including our OptiPlex desktops, Latitude notebooks and Dell Precision workstations. This is another step towards ensuring that our customers have a good experience with Linux on our systems."

Novell is of course partial to its own SUSE Linux distro, and there is no word as to whether or when other distributions will be offered. The company has stated that it is considering it heavily, though - it was clear in the survey that many distros have very loyal user bases. Each one would have to be certified to work with the new systems, though, so if there is a choice it will come after the initial rollout.

Theories are abounding as to why Dell has made the change, most of them far from "listening to consumers." Conspiracy theorists are instead focusing on the fact that Vista is simply too resource-heavy to run on low-power laptops, or that Microsoft isn't being as generous with its incentives anymore.

However, one has to admit that no matter which variant is offered or why, the uptake by a company like Dell to sell Linux as a mainstream product will likely have vast benefits. Open source software has suffered in the past from driver development, which is something that Dell can force companies to speed up on if they want to be included in the next laptop or desktop builds.

Do you have a thought on the switch at Dell? Let us hear about it in our forums.

52 Comments

Discuss in the forums Reply
_DTM2000_ 27th February 2007, 12:03 Quote
Yay, this is good news. I hope they have a wide range of systems available with a Linux option soon. This would give lots of good options to us consumers. Plus, if Dell can force better driver development then this will help the open source community on a whole. Well done Dell. Lets hope more big system builders start to move in this direction.
bilbothebaggins 27th February 2007, 12:12 Quote
Nice move (Let's see if it'll work out.)

I think many low level computer users are well served by a pre-installed linux (and I think the distro doesn't really matter).
* browser ... check
* email ... check
* (Open) Office ... check
* printing ... check
* mp3 ... check
* movies ... check(?)

Of course the same people will rant about Linux the very instance they want to use program xy and notice it won't run on Linux ... :D
antiHero 27th February 2007, 12:40 Quote
Thats a great thing from Dell todo.
I know that they already offered PC with a own Dos distro if you dont need Windows.
About joe bloke ranting:
I installed Ubuntu on my parents pc and its all they need. For surfing the web and writing emails the genuine linux install is enough. So far they didnt need to install anything couse everything you need is there.
yakyb 27th February 2007, 12:52 Quote
i think its fantastic news however i can see a lot of people being caught out
i.e why won't X game work on my new dell laptop or i want to run Y Program why will it not run

i cant access my home computer running Win Xp from my new Laptop running Linux

i personally think this is great news as i use a laptop running linux anyway surely this will drop prices as you wont have to pay for a windows license
mikeuk2004 27th February 2007, 13:24 Quote
Ok i dont know much about linux and as I can gather there are lots of different versions.

I downloaded one to try and install on my main pc which had a very nice graphic interface on the installer which failed when it came to installing SATA drivers. Anyhow thats as far as I got. I dont rember which version it was but it was a DVD if that means anything.

Anyhow I was thinking of trying to install a linux on my Sony laptop. can someone recomend the right one to install?? Also if I install it will it eat up the image on the hard drive and prevent me useing my recover disc to get windows back if needed?

Apart from that it will be good for joe public to see linux and realise there is something out there other than windows.
Krikkit 27th February 2007, 13:29 Quote
This is a great day for Linux. The biggest PC manufacturer around (mainstream at least), has finally decided to support an OS.

People will, no doubt, whinge that there isn't any sense in having Linux made by one company - but don't forget that these things HAVE to work as well as possible.

Lots of people will be tempted by the price reduction that not having windows brings, and you have to have a reliable distro for Joe Public to get used to - you can't have the need to drop to a CLI to fix bug problems, or fiddling about with loads of settings and switches.

Another poke in the eye for M$, who might start to understand that people won't keep paying if it's overpriced and gimmicky.
Freedom 27th February 2007, 14:04 Quote
If they gonna make sure it there systems work with suse then it should work with most other linux distros so if it only comes with suse not much of a lost realy. should be easy to install other linux distos
DarkLord7854 27th February 2007, 14:06 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krikkit
Another poke in the eye for M$, who might start to understand that people won't keep paying if it's overpriced and gimmicky.

Specialy when OSX is only 90$ and is nearly the same :)


Linux sounds good, I always avoided buying from Dell and tuff because I'd have to buy another stupid Windows license for a "cheap" 99$ >.<
r4tch3t 27th February 2007, 15:12 Quote
I have just recently started using Linux, Ubuntu for a family friend who is clueless around computers, its easier to install, cheaper, and practically no configuration to do. Everything is included. I for one would prefer a Linux laptop as I wont be needing a windows license or any windows programs.
This is a good thing for Linux.
BioSniper 27th February 2007, 15:14 Quote
This is indeed interesting. On the one hand it's great as it give choice and the possibility of lower prices (though I'm not sure it will amount to much as you have to pay specialist techies to actually support it) and on the other hand it's a terrible terrible idea.
I'm all for Linux but when mummy and daddy buy a new PC for the kids at crimbo which has Linux on it only to find out that some really obscure piece of software required for little Timmy's school work doesn't work in Linux or that new Cbeebies cd-rom from the Daily Mail doesn't work they are sure to question why they bothered with the alternative when for a couple of quid more Windows would have just "worked out the box".

I am by no means a MS/Windows fan but I'm not a Linux zealot either (unless it's for web servers), just trying to look at it objectively really.
Buzzons 27th February 2007, 16:37 Quote
Me agrees with BioSniper

Also, open office is (and please, no arguments here) rubbish in comparison to Office XP/2k3/2k7 - the integration is not there, the advanced toolset is not there, if you just want to edit a basic word file, then fine, but anything more advanced and it falls flat on its face.

Also -- what if it goes wrong? it could be many different reasons compared to the one windows error message you usually get. Will PC world help you? will you have any techie mates that know their way around it enough to help you? what if they want a different distro?

why will all consumers want to buy an OS that wont run 100% of the software they have already bought?

When they get a new bit of hardware, what is hte chances it will be supported - Windows XP - 100% nearly // linux? I know the support is going up, but it's no where near the XP driver scale.
supermonkey 27th February 2007, 16:43 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzzons
Also, open office is (and please, no arguments here) rubbish in comparison to Office XP/2k3/2k7 - the integration is not there, the advanced toolset is not there, if you just want to edit a basic word file, then fine, but anything more advanced and it falls flat on its face.
Open Office actually works quite well. I've been using it on my home machine for quite some time now, and have had no compatibility issues. Further, how many general home users require more advanced features?

-monkey
DarkLord7854 27th February 2007, 16:56 Quote
They might require to use a digital camera but nowadays you can buy those printers where you just snap the camera or memory card into it and print from there.

Also, I think Dell would give support for their Linux supplied hardware just like they give support for the Windows ones.

And I seriously doubt that anyone will ask for a different distro is they don't even know how to fully use it. Many people will just see it as Windows with a funky GUI I bet
Tyinsar 27th February 2007, 17:06 Quote
My main hope from this is that this leads to better driver support (as has been mentioned by others) and gets more hardware and software companies looking at Linux. Now, if Dell got on board with an Ubuntu variant and Linspire's Click'n'Run I think it would push for an even better and unified Linux standard.
evanbraakensiek 27th February 2007, 17:45 Quote
hmm, they could curb the warranties a little and allow for a greater variety of distros. If ubuntu isn't one of the distros supported then they want shot :(
Brooxy 27th February 2007, 17:46 Quote
I'm not normally one to be civil about Dell, but it seems for once they've made a step in the right direction, and hopefully, this will shunt some other computer companies into Linux more, meaning more support, and eventually, more money being put into Linux drivers.

And to whoever claims open office is a pile of poo...think back to the time of Mircrosoft Word 6.0, back on Windows 3.1, and how ugly it was, and featureless......as with Microsoft Office, OpenOffice will improve with age, all it needs is a little time.
evanbraakensiek 27th February 2007, 17:49 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzzons
Me agrees with BioSniper

Also, open office is (and please, no arguments here) rubbish in comparison to Office XP/2k3/2k7 - the integration is not there, the advanced toolset is not there, if you just want to edit a basic word file, then fine, but anything more advanced and it falls flat on its face.

Also -- what if it goes wrong? it could be many different reasons compared to the one windows error message you usually get. Will PC world help you? will you have any techie mates that know their way around it enough to help you? what if they want a different distro?

why will all consumers want to buy an OS that wont run 100% of the software they have already bought?

When they get a new bit of hardware, what is hte chances it will be supported - Windows XP - 100% nearly // linux? I know the support is going up, but it's no where near the XP driver scale.

You fail on so many levels its unreal, makes me think you've never even used linux before. Come back and talk when you've actually used a computer.
randosome 27th February 2007, 18:24 Quote
you can already configure laptops with Linux from dell now

however they are even more expensive then their vista counterparts, absolutely absurd, probably because dell cant shovel their crapware (which they get money for) onto a Linux laptop, however i would have thought that would break even with the cost of XP at least
Nix 27th February 2007, 18:52 Quote
Maybe this will get more people trying and/or using linux.

I think it could be good for the linux community to get more users, as more users can mean more generated content and apps for linux. Also more companies (such as game companies) might start making apps that run on windows, mac and linux
ou7blaze 27th February 2007, 19:02 Quote
I realised that there could be many other reasons as to why Dell chose to support Linux but whatever the reasons are it can't be bad for opensource development.

Dell's choice to support Linux provides more variety for the consumer aswell and is sure as hell gonna boost the popularity of Linux and other opensource variants..

Therefore, I think this is a good move by them.
HandMadeAndroid 27th February 2007, 19:20 Quote
:D Thats fantastic, if you just want a basic office machine, you can get all the software you need for free, I'd buy one!
Woodstock 27th February 2007, 20:42 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzzons
Me agrees with BioSniper

Also, open office is (and please, no arguments here) rubbish in comparison to Office XP/2k3/2k7 - the integration is not there, the advanced toolset is not there, if you just want to edit a basic word file, then fine, but anything more advanced and it falls flat on its face.

Also -- what if it goes wrong? it could be many different reasons compared to the one windows error message you usually get. Will PC world help you? will you have any techie mates that know their way around it enough to help you? what if they want a different distro?

why will all consumers want to buy an OS that wont run 100% of the software they have already bought?

When they get a new bit of hardware, what is hte chances it will be supported - Windows XP - 100% nearly // linux? I know the support is going up, but it's no where near the XP driver scale.

Linux is all about CHOICE, and dell is now just offering one from the manufacture, this may mean my new laptop may just be a dell... I wonder if this has anything to do with that guy last year who forced dell to refund the XP portion of his laptop
Kipman725 27th February 2007, 20:48 Quote
personaly I think this may be due to all but the high end dells (which incidently arn't the big sellers) been sold with vista home basic to try and keep the prices low. Vista home basic is so unbelivably crippled that it is seriously going to displease alot of people that use it:

*No windows restore... the newb fix all
*No areo glass (what apears to be the primary feature of the new Os!)
*No media tools (apart from media player)
*No hard disk eyncrption (the lack of it may make the user feel insecure)
*No built in remote desktop and networking tools (oh noes I can't setup my wi-fi)
*No power management for laptops
And most importatly no new "premium games"

That is one very crippled OS.... which costs alot.

Just look at the DELL leaflets this is what there shipping there pcs with.
mikeuk2004 27th February 2007, 21:09 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzzons

why will all consumers want to buy an OS that wont run 100% of the software they have already bought?

You mean Mac users :p
DXR_13KE 27th February 2007, 21:29 Quote
this can only be a good thing..... and kind of accelerate the production of drivers for linux.
cpemma 27th February 2007, 21:55 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by evanbraakensiek
You fail on so many levels its unreal, makes me think you've never even used linux before. Come back and talk when you've actually used a computer.
I've been using Linux for a few weeks and IMO it is not suitable for the average joe. Mainly because the Linux community has taken care not to make it user-friendly in the way Windows is.

Example - I download the latest firefox.tar.gz (or any other tarball). Now what do I do? Explain to the noob who's bought a Linux box. I should add I've seen answers to such questions on Linux forums, generally penned by Linux fans who may know their stuff but have the communication skills of a goldfish.

It can be made easier - Slax uses program modules, copy into the modules folder and the program self-installs. Why don't all distros adopt this or a similar simple system? Why does Joe need to read the manual? Most Windows users don't.

In an Office environment, where the end user isn't expected to change anything, Linux is OK. For home use, it's for people who prefer tinkering with the car to driving it.
randosome 27th February 2007, 22:23 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpemma
I've been using Linux for a few weeks and IMO it is not suitable for the average joe. Mainly because the Linux community has taken care not to make it user-friendly in the way Windows is.

Example - I download the latest firefox.tar.gz (or any other tarball). Now what do I do? Explain to the noob who's bought a Linux box. I should add I've seen answers to such questions on Linux forums, generally penned by Linux fans who may know their stuff but have the communication skills of a goldfish.

It can be made easier - Slax uses program modules, copy into the modules folder and the program self-installs. Why don't all distros adopt this or a similar simple system? Why does Joe need to read the manual? Most Windows users don't.

In an Office environment, where the end user isn't expected to change anything, Linux is OK. For home use, it's for people who prefer tinkering with the car to driving it.
quite frankly, i agree with this so much
This is probably one of the biggest gripes i have with Linux, it really isn't n00b friendly

I tried Knoppix before, and i had the same problem, how do you install a tar.gz file (or whatever) its just not self explanatory at all
One of the biggest things IMO that is going to stop Linux being readily distributed, is the fact that it just isn't standard enough, and its not user friendly enough, and a lot of people who use Linux have their heads so far up their own ass its not even funny

Now i have 2 Linux boxes in my house, but they are both servers (1 firewall - IPCop and 1 Internet server - Fedora Core 5) and neither have a keyboard, mouse or monitor connected, so a lot of non-standard things have to be done by the command line, and its not simple

Maybe if games were on Linux i would learn it and swap to it, but for now both my main PC's are windows based, because that's what i use, that's what is easy to use and that is where most of my software is

Also, trying to compile software on Linux boxes is the biggest PITA (pain in the ass) ever i mean that is the one thing there just isn't much good help on

Just my $0.02
Da Dego 27th February 2007, 22:52 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpemma
It can be made easier - Slax uses program modules, copy into the modules folder and the program self-installs. Why don't all distros adopt this or a similar simple system? Why does Joe need to read the manual? Most Windows users don't.
to be fair, most linux distros do include this. Gentoo has portage, Debian (ubuntu) has apt get. Basically, though you *can* download these tarballs to do your install, there are easier and faster ways to do it - ways that even Windows doesn't have duplicated.

For example, Windows doesn't have a feature where you can go online and update every program on your computer in one shot to the most recent version - but Gentoo does, and so does Debian. Parts of each OS are far more civilized than the other. Rather than worrying about automatic updates for Windows, updates for FF, updates for this and that, you can click on one button that does an update world....call it a day. THAT is easy.

I agree with the basis of your point - not all of linux is ready for mainstream. Then again, as a Vista user, neither is Vista. :) Either way, it's a choice and each one has some strengths.
Chuckysan 27th February 2007, 23:35 Quote
Maybe I'm off in delusional land, but I can't help but think this is a good thing for M$ as well. Now they get a real opportunity to hype and "sell" the user on why one would pick Vista over Linux, and tout all the advatages to it instead of just falling back on "well who else is there". We saw a bit of that marketing happen with the launch of Vista, but its all dried up now.

Also any competition might be a good excuse for M$ to tighten up on lacking drivers for Vista as well. They can now engage the market as a OS "player" and not as the OS "Monopoly".

I think this is a win-win for both camps.
speedfreek 28th February 2007, 01:14 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckysan
Also any competition might be a good excuse for M$ to tighten up on lacking drivers for Vista as well. They can now engage the market as a OS "player" and not as the OS "Monopoly".
I would like to see someone besides apple being distributed mainstream and support can only get better from here then, I do not think it would be easy at first but a lot will happen for linux when this gets bigger. Good or bad is totally debatable.
Tyinsar 28th February 2007, 01:33 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Da Dego
to be fair, most linux distros do include this. Gentoo has portage, Debian (ubuntu) has apt get. Basically, though you *can* download these tarballs to do your install, there are easier and faster ways to do it - ways that even Windows doesn't have duplicated....
True; I'm using Mepis Linux (now based on Ubuntu) on one of my machines and have never added or updated anything except through Synaptic (apt-get GUI) - It works quite well. BUT - now that Ubuntu is moving to use Linspire's CNR (Click and Run) (pimp my own thread link) it should get even better easier to install and update software in some distros.
cpemma 28th February 2007, 01:50 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Da Dego
to be fair, most linux distros do include this. Gentoo has portage, Debian (ubuntu) has apt get. Basically, though you *can* download these tarballs to do your install, there are easier and faster ways to do it -
So you're saying it's the Firefox team who are the real anal ones, not offering alternatives to make life a bit easier?


/me puts away **** shovel
Da Dego 28th February 2007, 01:56 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpemma
So you're saying it's the Firefox team who are the real anal ones, not offering alternatives to make life a bit easier?


/me puts away **** shovel
Dude? :) apt-get firefox. portage firefox. :) It's not hard. Add it to the world once (it's pre-installed on most distros) and it will update with the world in one click...what's the issue? :D Maybe I"m misunderstanding the deal you're making of it.
randosome 28th February 2007, 02:00 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Da Dego
Dude? :) apt-get firefox. portage firefox. :) It's not hard. Add it to the world once (it's pre-installed on most distros) and it will update with the world in one click...what's the issue? :D Maybe I"m misunderstanding the deal you're making of it.
well apart from not all distros have apt - not all stuff actually distributes through apt either
There's also yum (which i use on my fedora core box) but again the same deal as apt

although at least fedora core understands an rpm <_<

I think his point is, Linux is not simple, and although some stuff on it is pretty simple, some things which are simple as anything on windows, are quite hard on Linux, and of course if you ask anyone for help you get the holier then thou attitude that a lot of Linux users have
Woodstock 28th February 2007, 02:03 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by randosome
quite frankly, i agree with this so much
This is probably one of the biggest gripes i have with Linux, it really isn't n00b friendly

I tried Knoppix before, and i had the same problem, how do you install a tar.gz file (or whatever) its just not self explanatory at all
One of the biggest things IMO that is going to stop Linux being readily distributed, is the fact that it just isn't standard enough, and its not user friendly enough, and a lot of people who use Linux have their heads so far up their own ass its not even funny

The thing with linux development is that its done by un-paid users who dont care if its up to your standards or in any way user friendly all the developer cares about is that its good for his uses. alot of windows users dont understand that
Quote:
Originally Posted by Da Dego
to be fair, most linux distros do include this. Gentoo has portage, Debian (ubuntu) has apt get. Basically, though you *can* download these tarballs to do your install, there are easier and faster ways to do it - ways that even Windows doesn't have duplicated.

dont all distros have a package manager of some sort?
Glider 28th February 2007, 02:23 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Da Dego
Dude? :) apt-get firefox. emerge firefox. :) It's not hard.
I haven't learned you well ;)

And installing from source is an ever repeating procedure of unpacking source ; ./configure ; make ; make install and you are done...
Quote:
Originally Posted by randosome
well apart from not all distros have apt - not all stuff actually distributes through apt either
There's also yum (which i use on my fedora core box) but again the same deal as apt
All big and selfrespecting distro's (except LFS) have package managers nowadays...
Quote:
Originally Posted by randosome
although at least fedora core understands an rpm <_<
So does gentoo, RPM is a package you can install, and with that piece of software you can just 'install' RPM packages... (actually, an RPM package is more like a tar/zip then an actual install)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodstock
The thing with linux development is that its done by un-paid users who dont care if its up to your standards or in any way user friendly all the developer cares about is that its good for his uses. alot of windows users dont understand that
While this is true for a lot of cases, it also is wrong for even more. And while a lot of people complain about Linux support, I don't know what they are whining about. Ok, Linux developers expect you to at least use google. But if you really have a problem, they will be nice and helpful. I usually get my in dept support via IRC, most packages have a channel somewhere... I call it Live support 24/7

EDIT:
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpemma
So you're saying it's the Firefox team who are the real anal ones, not offering alternatives to make life a bit easier?
T B H, Y E S :)And there is plenty more where that came from...
Woodstock 28th February 2007, 02:55 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glider

While this is true for a lot of cases, it also is wrong for even more. And while a lot of people complain about Linux support, I don't know what they are whining about. Ok, Linux developers expect you to at least use google. But if you really have a problem, they will be nice and helpful. I usually get my in dept support via IRC, most packages have a channel somewhere... I call it Live support 24/7

Yes help can be found but not all developers are nice enough to do that, its normally random people (not to be offensive in any way) isnt that help through irc or fourms
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glider

EDIT:T B H, Y E S :)And there is plenty more where that came from...
lol eh confusing i didn't even know that my Firefox wasn't called Firefox.
Buzzons 28th February 2007, 04:38 Quote
1) a lot of users (read as noobs) dont know you can google for support, this is true, i hate it, but it is true

2) if they do not know you can google to find support / what the weather will be like, do you really think they know what IRC is? - its like MSN innit? *shakes head*

if lots of people started using linux, there would have to be some standard distro to easy help and support for the masses.

the code would have to be tested, commented and checked to make sure it meets x y and z standards for a lot of things, but which distro would you check?

Users have grow up with windows, and even though noobuntu has stolen all the good ideas of ergonomics and intuitive designs of windows, MS will always have the larger budget to push into RnD for their software to bring out better more intuitive software -- where as linux has no real funds other than some old rich men (ubuntu) so the RnD budget is very limited.

also the standard tools for a noobuser :

MSN - talking to his mates innit!
IE7 - lookin at pr0n innit!
Word/Works - doin my essays inniiit!

now, you can replace MSN with AMSN or GAIM, IE7 with Firefox or other browser, and Word/Works with OO, however the learning curve // the backwards step in functionality will make users wonder why they are bothering.

Some one said that if i look back at office 3.1 it was shite (compared to office 2k7) yes , that is true, but times have moved on, as has office, yet Open Office still lags behind MS Office, so why bother using an application that is WORSE than the one you are used to at the moment? That would be like using a teleprompter when you could use a 21" wide screen TFT instead...
Emon 28th February 2007, 05:34 Quote
Well, this will be interesting. I just hope they go with Ubuntu, because virtually every other desktop distribution is total rubbish.
Woodstock 28th February 2007, 07:05 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emon
Well, this will be interesting. I just hope they go with Ubuntu, because virtually every other desktop distribution is total rubbish.

and others will say that Ubuntu is total rubbish
IanW 28th February 2007, 08:14 Quote
According to Slashdot , Dell are now saying that they are merely seeking SUSE hardware compatability certification.
Glider 28th February 2007, 11:00 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzzons
1) a lot of users (read as noobs) dont know you can google for support, this is true, i hate it, but it is true

2) if they do not know you can google to find support / what the weather will be like, do you really think they know what IRC is? - its like MSN innit? *shakes head*
But, what to do if there is a problem with a piece of software on windows? This is exactly the same on Linux. If you expect everything to just fall in your lap, I think you are living on the wrong planet

and IRC is multiplayer notepad ;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzzons
if lots of people started using linux, there would have to be some standard distro to easy help and support for the masses.
Ubuntu has that in their mission statement IIRC. But for instance Gentoo has the greatest manual I've ever seen, paired up with an enormous Wiki. The resources are at the tips of ones fingers, but if you are too lazy to do an effort, why should I invest time
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzzons
the code would have to be tested, commented and checked to make sure it meets x y and z standards for a lot of things, but which distro would you check?
Unlike with software firms, there are actually plenty of gifted coders in all distro's development trees. And all packages have (or should have) a maintainer. He or she is the captain of the boat, and descides what gets included and what not. Just like in big software firms, only it doesn't cost a billion to get notepad coded...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzzons
Users have grow up with windows, and even though noobuntu has stolen all the good ideas of ergonomics and intuitive designs of windows, MS will always have the larger budget to push into RnD for their software to bring out better more intuitive software -- where as linux has no real funds other than some old rich men (ubuntu) so the RnD budget is very limited.
Now you are going overboard... Better get your facts straight... Maybe some ideas were stolen from Windows, but don't act like there is 1 thing authentic to Windows, allmost all their features are 'borrowed'. And the other way round, like all the eye candy in aero, just resembles beryl/compiz a bit too hard don't you think?

And again, the great thing about Linux and OSS is that it doesn't revolve around money. Developers actually do it for fun, or prestige. Which leads to a lot more optimised code, and a lot more debugging. If there is a bug discovered in a OSS package, it gets fixed pretty quick, now, compare that to the Windows counterpart? I've seen bugs getting fixed in <4hours, and I must say, except for new cutting edge code, the Linux kernel is quite bugfree... Compared to the Windows kernel... But then again you have a handfull of payed developers on the Windows side, and millions of voluntary developers on the OSS side... More eyes = less likely to get something wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzzons
also the standard tools for a noobuser :

MSN - talking to his mates innit!
IE7 - lookin at pr0n innit!
Word/Works - doin my essays inniiit!

now, you can replace MSN with AMSN or GAIM, IE7 with Firefox or other browser, and Word/Works with OO, however the learning curve // the backwards step in functionality will make users wonder why they are bothering.
Step back in functionality? Again, please get your facts straight... OpenOffice isn't MS office, it doesn't offer a lot of junk 99% of the users don't use, but that doesn't mean that it can't be installed. There are modules that can be added in (just like in MS Office, only they are installed there by default). For instance the formula editor in OO just owns the one in MSs counterpart.

But I'm glad you brought up the learning curve. I wonder, the first time ever that you sat behind a Windows PC, and opened up Office, did you know how things worked? Guess not. OO is just as inituitive as MS counterpart, and has features that MS should learn about (like hotkey'd 'paste as', easy paragraph reorder, ...)

Another great example of the learning curve is VIM... But the vision of the about that is just awsome and so correct here. Why make an easy to learn program that doesn't work efficiently when you know it? Better make a bit harder to learn one, that is actually lightning fast when you know it... Once you climed the curve (and everyone has to in some extent), you'll notice things getting better, not more frustrating because of the constant hand holding.

And what is best in Linux, all these packages can be installed a lot easier then in windows. Just use the distros package manager and everything is installed correctly, without fuss
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzzons
Some one said that if i look back at office 3.1 it was shite (compared to office 2k7) yes , that is true, but times have moved on, as has office, yet Open Office still lags behind MS Office, so why bother using an application that is WORSE than the one you are used to at the moment? That would be like using a teleprompter when you could use a 21" wide screen TFT instead...
Well, it does count for a bit that MS Office costs 600€ for something 95% unused? And if that isn't plenty for you, you should look into other office suites, like for instance Koffice. That is the great thing about Linux, choise!

I'm surprised you haven't brought up gaming tough... That is the only thing that can't be done on Linux like it is done on Windows. But that isn't the fault of the Linux community, blame the Game developers on that one. It is perfectly possible to make games on Linux (which run even better then on Windows), but game studio's can't be arsed to make an effort. In that aspect they aren't that much different then home users...

EDIT: it seems that I stepped once again into a 'mine is better then yours' conversation. But let's make it a 'mine is different then yours' one, while we keep respecting eachother. Linux isn't Windows, OO isn't MS Office, Firefox isn't IE... They are alike, each with their similarities and their differences. You know the pro's and the con's of both, make a choice accordingly. If you hate OO, don't use it... But don't start bitching around that it sucks, because for most of the users out there it does just what they need. Don't go pointing fingers at the Linux developers, while it are the 'Windows software developers' that ignore this growing (altough still small) segment of the PC world. Don't go messing around that there is a learning curve in Linux, there's one in Windows too,....
vulcam 28th February 2007, 14:25 Quote
I agree with glider on this. It isn't something that is a "mine is better than yours". Everyone is different and has different tastes and this is what Dell is trying to cater for. I use both windows and linux all the time on my laptop. I use open office on both (because i can't be bothered forking out money to M$) and i have no problems with compatibility with microsoft office and there are all the advanced features i need (equation editing etc). Fedora 6 works brilliantly and if your complaining about updates you've never seen that little auto-update thingy that sits on the menu bar and pops up when there are updates that need downloading.

The only thing i have to complain about with linux is that many of the new games don't run on it. However this is part of the choice thing that Dell is offering. If you aren't gunna be doing much more than word processing and web browsing then linux is just fine. however if your planning on playing games on you computer then get windows. It's quite simple really.
Da Dego 28th February 2007, 14:58 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by IanW
According to Slashdot , Dell are now saying that they are merely seeking SUSE hardware compatability certification.
RTFA ;)

I mentioned that:
Quote:
Novell is of course partial to its own SUSE Linux distro, and there is no word as to whether or when other distributions will be offered. The company has stated that it is considering it heavily, though - it was clear in the survey that many distros have very loyal user bases. Each one would have to be certified to work with the new systems, though, so if there is a choice it will come after the initial rollout.
Buzzons 28th February 2007, 18:08 Quote
ok fine, none of this "mine is better than yours" but..

on windows as it does as you say install so much crap, if you ever need something, it is right there, no install needed, its just a quick "help-> how do i do xxx"

thats easy, users like easy....
BoomAM 28th February 2007, 19:03 Quote
I wonder if the PCs/Laptops will be any cheaper without Windows, realistically i'd have to say no, as the OS costs companys like Dell mere pence anyway. But it would be nice if we saw a small saving at least.
randosome 28th February 2007, 20:08 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoomAM
I wonder if the PCs/Laptops will be any cheaper without Windows, realistically i'd have to say no, as the OS costs companys like Dell mere pence anyway. But it would be nice if we saw a small saving at least.
http://forums.bit-tech.net/showpost.php?p=1433504&postcount=19
Kipman725 28th February 2007, 22:53 Quote
make linux noob freindly and its no longer freindly for me, same way windows became unfreidy to me. Face it, a computer is complex and if you can't use the os you shouldn't have a computer you should have a console and a fancy phone that can browse the web.

Beuty of linux is we can have newb freindly distros and ones that are faster to use (have you ever tried file managing from the command line - so much faster).

go newbs get your restrictive operating systems :)
TimB 1st March 2007, 05:32 Quote
They apparently changed their mind:

Dell not to bundle Linux with desktops or notebooks
Buzzons 1st March 2007, 05:52 Quote
kip you can do a lot in windows as well ya know :) under the covers it is quite complex.
Glider 1st March 2007, 23:00 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzzons
kip you can do a lot in windows as well ya know :) under the covers it is quite complex.
While I totally agree to this (and use the commandline in Windows as much as possible if I'm forced onto a windows workstation), but the CLI in Windows isn't nearly as powerful as those in Linux. While this is perfectly normal, because Windows isn't actually CLI based, it is just a remainder of the past, it severly limits my Windows experience.
Cthippo 2nd March 2007, 17:09 Quote
I'm with Glider and Kipman. I started using OO.o long before I migrated to linux. It's a little more challenging to use, but I have done things like multi-layered calendars and brochures in it, things I would normally use Publisher for, if I had $400 to spend on Publisher. Also keep in mind that most pre-built machines don't come with Office, you have to purchase it seperatly. A lot of them come with Works, which is absolute shite.

Also, keep in mind that Dell's target market for this product is NOT the mass consumer market, but rather the power users such as ourselves who use Linux anyways and just want a computer without the bloat. I think most of us would be happy with a whitebook with no OS since it sucks to pay for a Windows license just to format the drive and install linux over it.
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