bit-gamer.net

Valve unveils its Steam Machine prototype

Valve unveils its Steam Machine prototype

This image, snapped by The Verge on its visit to Valve's headquarters, reveals much about Valve's initial homebrew Steam Machine prototypes.

Valve has unveiled its first of 300 Steam Machine prototypes that will be heading to beta testers later this year, revealing - to nobody's surprise - a small form factor gaming PC.

Part of the company's push to become more self-reliant, itself a result of founder Gabe Newell's vocal distaste for recent Windows releases, the Steam Machine prototypes are Valve-produced hardware running a customised version of Canonical's Ubuntu Linux operating system dubbed SteamOS. Designed specifically for gaming, the devices are living-room-centric hardware which are to be joined early next year by licensed hardware from original equipment manufacturer (OEM) partners.

Valve has been teasing the Steam Boxes for some time, but has so far been reticent to allow anyone to see their designs. A reporter from The Verge was recently given the opportunity to go hands-on with the first Steam Machine and its innovative haptic controller - and in doing so has provided the world with its first glimpse of Valve's early designs.

An image of the actual prototype box, minus its casing, reveals something that should come as no surprise to anyone: the first Steam Machine is a small form factor PC, coupling what appears to be a mini-ITX motherboard with a dual-slot Nvidia graphics card connected to a PCI Express riser board. The result, coupled with the placement of the power supply at the front of the case, is an extremely compact yet powerful system - and a glance at the ports available show integrated dual-antenna Wi-Fi, wired Ethernet, optical and analogue audio, and both USB 3.0 and eSATA connectivity.

Press renders of the casing itself, meanwhile, show something rather akin to Microsoft's Xbox 360: a square box with a round button to the left of the face which doubles as power button and indicator light, alongside a pair of USB 3.0 ports joining the rear-facing connectivity. Vents at either side provide cool air intake, while the graphics card itself - claimed to be an Nvidia GeForce GTX Titan - vents its air directly from the rear. Interestingly, the case employs a split-chamber design: the motherboard and graphics card are sealed off from each other, with each receiving dedicated vents and cooling.

The prototypes won't reflect the first retail products, however: according to a Valve spokesperson, the first licensed Steam Boxes will be unveiled in January for sale mid-year - and the OEMs are working hard to get the size down from the prototype's 305mm x 305mm x 74mm dimensions. 'You can get far smaller, and that's what many OEMs are doing,' a Steam Machine team member told the site. 'I think it's safe to say [they will be] less than a quarter of the size,' the spokesperson concluded, while admitting that such devices won't boast the full-size dedicated flagship GPU of the prototype.

If you're interesting in Valve's work on licensed hybrid PC-consoles, the full write-up - which includes hands-on time with the controller, shots of earlier prototypes, and claims that Valve won't be making any SteamOS exclusives to push adoption of the OS - is well worth a read.

59 Comments

Discuss in the forums Reply
Hustler 5th November 2013, 11:22 Quote
Looks more and more like they're just trying to set themselves up as another 'Alienware' type branding exercise, although with control of the OS and software delivery system, it has the potential to be a lot bigger.
Bungletron 5th November 2013, 11:36 Quote
Quote:
the graphics card itself - claimed to be an Nvidia GeForce GTX Titan

The thing is going to be a monster!
Gareth Halfacree 5th November 2013, 11:38 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bungletron
The thing is going to be a monster!
Read on before you get too excited: some prototypes get a Titan, other prototypes get lower-end Nvidia boards. The majority of retail models - i.e. the only ones you're ever likely to see in the flesh, unless you're going to CES next year - will likely use on-board graphics or mini-PCIe laptop-style GPUs.
SAimNE 5th November 2013, 11:41 Quote
idk why people freak about the titan.... it isnt really all that great when you consider what you have to pay for it. sure if i was in the giveaway i'd hope for the titan, but if i have to actually pay for it i'm hoping for a 290/x or 780/ti
Hustler 5th November 2013, 11:56 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gareth Halfacree
the only ones you're ever likely to see in the flesh, unless you're going to CES next year - will likely use on-board graphics or mini-PCIe laptop-style GPUs.

Which begs the question..what on earth is the point in sending out such high spec prototypes in the first place?

This is Valve, I fail to see what they could learn from people using it, that they don't know already via their Steam hardware surveys.
teppic 5th November 2013, 11:58 Quote
The final models will come with a wide range of options and there will be different sizes. Plus if you get a larger model like this you will be able to replace the graphics card.
Gareth Halfacree 5th November 2013, 11:59 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hustler
Which begs the question..
That's not what that means. Sorry, pet peeve.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hustler
what on earth is the point in sending out such high spec prototypes in the first place? This is Valve, I fail to see what they could learn from people using it, that they don't know already via their Steam hardware surveys.
Who knows. Newell already said that Steam Boxes will come in three distinct flavours: Good, Better and Best. From the sound of it, Valve's prototypes are Best while the retail models from licensed OEMs will be Good. That doesn't mean that one or more OEM won't release a Best similar to Valve's prototypes, mind - nor that Valve itself won't enter the hardware market fully and release an 'official' Steam Machine with high-end hardware like its prototypes. After all, it seems odd to spend so much effort engineering a fully-functional prototype then just leave production up to third parties...
teppic 5th November 2013, 12:02 Quote
In related news, Metro Last Light was released for Linux via Steam yesterday.
theshadow2001 5th November 2013, 12:25 Quote
Surely valve want to put their best foot forward when making their first revelation of the steambox. Lets not forget at the moment valves primary customers are pc gamers who likely drool over hardware specs like the prototype shown.

Also valve are a software company first and foremost. Their forray into hardware is a necessity however as they they need to get the ball rolling on good input methods for couch gaming and the steamboxes themselves. Going by newells move towards linux he's clearly not one to wait around and let other companies come up with the solutions he needs.

I would imagine that if the steam boxes become well established, valve will take a step back from the hardware and let their partners continue down that road. Perhaps producing only a premium model themselves.
Bungletron 5th November 2013, 12:27 Quote
Hmm, not all titans eh? Well if they can put together a reasonable spec quiet box or a monster spec beast box then heavily discount/subsidise it (a la x-box/playstation) I would actually be interested either way.
Corky42 5th November 2013, 12:35 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by theshadow2001
I would imagine that if the steam boxes become well established, valve will take a step back from the hardware and let their partners continue down that road. Perhaps producing only a premium model themselves.

I cant see them wanting to get into producing their own box, they say why they made the 300 prototypes in the Verge article linked by Gareth.
Quote:
While the company's Xbox-sized gaming PC is only a model to inspire hardware partners
Dave Lister 5th November 2013, 15:15 Quote
I want to see how it all fits together ! It looks like a mini itx board with a riser for the gpu but the cooler is what is intriguing me at the moment.

Oh well fingers crossed they send me one then I can dismantle it and have a good nosy around :)
Corky42 5th November 2013, 15:32 Quote
Is there any word on when they let the lucky 300 know ?
rollo 5th November 2013, 15:37 Quote
If they can fit a titan into that form factor and sell it onwards there will be plenty of lan enthusiasts who would jump at the chance to aquire it.

Even I would have to consider it for my own lan gaming if its portable enough and it looks like it is. This or ITX for Lan gaming what a choice to have in truth.
magnetobob 5th November 2013, 18:31 Quote
slightly of topic has any one seen any itx cases in a similar style? where you can mount the graphics card horizontal in the the case via a pci riser or extensions?
Star*Dagger 5th November 2013, 18:38 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hustler
Which begs the question..what on earth is the point in sending out such high spec prototypes in the first place?

This is Valve, I fail to see what they could learn from people using it, that they don't know already via their Steam hardware surveys.

Not sure if this is tongue in cheek sarcasm or serious.

The difference between the Steam hardware survey data, which is a list of what people are using and the prototyping of the inter-operability of a new hardware (and software) is like the difference between those who know what they are talking about and those who spout off in online forums.


Yours in Elite Corrective Plasma,
Star*Dagger
stonedsurd 5th November 2013, 18:50 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Star*Dagger
Not sure if this is tongue in cheek sarcasm or serious.

The difference between the Steam hardware survey data, which is a list of what people are using and the prototyping of the inter-operability of a new hardware (and software) is like the difference between those who know what they are talking about and those who spout off in online forums.


Yours in Elite Corrective Plasma,
Star*Dagger

Bingo.

PS: I've missed your "yours in <insert new phrase here> plasma" sign-offs lately, good to see them back ;)
Corky42 5th November 2013, 18:59 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by magnetobob
slightly of topic has any one seen any itx cases in a similar style? where you can mount the graphics card horizontal in the the case via a pci riser or extensions?

I dont think its the case that allows this, its more a case of buying a PCI-E riser card like this..
http://www.logicsupply.com/products/pcie_101l_16
Or a flexible PCI-E riser card that lets you orientate your card any way you like.
http://www.made-in-china.com/showroom/mattlau/product-detailLMCxkFgYCzhD/China-Flexible-PCI-Express-PCI-E-16x-Riser-Card-SLPS057-.html

The case they are using looks similar to this.
http://www.b2b-computer-case.com/mini-itx-case/04.htm
Nexxo 5th November 2013, 19:58 Quote
Quote:
Part of the company's push to become more self-reliant, itself a result of founder Gabe Newell's vocal distaste for recent Windows releases...

I have my doubts about that. I think it is more to do with Gabe seeing how Apple's App store and Google Play are doing very well, and wants to develop its own ecosystem independent of other platforms.
Corky42 5th November 2013, 20:05 Quote
True its not just Microsoft, he actually said...
"companies like Microsoft and Apple’s proprietary systems stifle innovation through sluggish certification processes."
Phil Rhodes 5th November 2013, 20:17 Quote
So it's another console.
theshadow2001 5th November 2013, 20:58 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexxo
I have my doubts about that. I think it is more to do with Gabe seeing how Apple's App store and Google Play are doing very well, and wants to develop its own ecosystem independent of other platforms.

Well he already has his own eco system in the form of steam. Its also doing very well. Making it less dependant on another business is a sensible strategic manouver I think. Given that Microsoft over the long term could eventually go the way of Apple and Google app stores for its software distribution.

I mean, why bother to maintain the whole front end of an O/S if you don't have to? Not only that but promote that O/S and get OEMS to write proper drivers and work with hardware vendors and on and on. Its a lot of extra work to put himself in almost the same position he is in now where he has to do none of that.
Gareth Halfacree 5th November 2013, 21:36 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexxo
I have my doubts about that.
Well, if he likes Windows, he's doing a very good job of hiding it.
Nexxo 6th November 2013, 00:18 Quote
I'm sure he doesn't like Windows. But that is more to do with the worry that it won't be open to him anymore than that it won't be open to users.
theshadow2001 6th November 2013, 00:18 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexxo
I'm sure he doesn't like Windows. But that is more to do with the worry that it won't be open to him anymore than that it won't be open to users.

Surely thats one in the same thing
Corky42 6th November 2013, 00:30 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by theshadow2001
Given that Microsoft over the long term could eventually go the way of Apple and Google app stores for its software distribution.

Could doesn't come into it, anyone can read between the lines and see this is the direction Microsoft is going. The steam machine is valves attempt to give the consumer back control over the content they want. By eliminating the rules, licensing and all the other road blocks put in the way of consumer created content.

Given time Microsoft, Apple, and other company's will lock down their systems so only people willing to pay a fee will be able to publish anything, issue patch's, or use their services.
Nexxo 6th November 2013, 00:31 Quote
No. Open to him means that he can use Windows as a platform to make money with Steam, which itself is as much of a closed garden as any app store is. Open to the user is that we can side load, mod, hack and adapt Windows to our own uses as we see fit.
Nexxo 6th November 2013, 00:32 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corky42
Could doesn't come into it, anyone can read between the lines and see this is the direction Microsoft is going. The steam machine is valves attempt to give the consumer back control over the content they want. By eliminating the rules, licensing and all the other road blocks put in the way of consumer created content.

Given time Microsoft, Apple, and other company's will lock down their systems so only people willing to pay a fee will be able to publish anything, issue patch's, or use their services.

And Steam will go the same way. Don't drink the koolaid. The Steam Machine is just another game console, as closed as any other game console.
Corky42 6th November 2013, 00:33 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexxo
And Steam will go the same way. Don't drink the koolaid. The Steam Machine is just another game console, as closed as any other game console.

Damn you stop editing it :)

Well seeing as Steam Os is based on open source i find it hard to see how thats a closed system, even if your just talking about Steam you only have to look at the user created content already being published for games to see its as far away from a closed system as you can get.
Nexxo 6th November 2013, 00:34 Quote
What makes you think it won't?
theshadow2001 6th November 2013, 01:15 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexxo
No. Open to him means that he can use Windows as a platform to make money with Steam, which itself is as much of a closed garden as any app store is. Open to the user is that we can side load, mod, hack and adapt Windows to our own uses as we see fit.

And what if I as the user want to write software which acts as a game distribution service.

Open to the user is open to newell is open to the maleware writers is open to the guy that wrote the obscure shareware program you use is open to all the users to use all of the above how they see fit.

Either its open or its not.
Bloody_Pete 6th November 2013, 08:25 Quote
The reason that it wont turn into a closed system is because Valve is morally against such things. See here: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/11/05/valve-shows-off-steam-hardware-promises-no-exclusives/

They don't like current market trends, hence why they're doing this. You have to remember, Valve isn't a normal business, it has no managers and isn't a driven for profit company. This is why HL3 hasn't appeared, as I expect there's a total apathy for making it there, while a studio such as EA would have cranked out 3 by now to cash in on the hype. You can compare valve to how the others work, as they simply don't work the same way.
Nexxo 6th November 2013, 08:59 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by theshadow2001
And what if I as the user want to write software which acts as a game distribution service.

Open to the user is open to newell is open to the maleware writers is open to the guy that wrote the obscure shareware program you use is open to all the users to use all of the above how they see fit.

Either its open or its not.

Indeed. As long as you can download Steam on your Windows machine, it is open. But Gabe sees the emergence of the Windows App Store as a competitive threat (while strangely, he doesn't see the OSX App Store in the same way --but Apple doesn't have an XBox division like Microsoft does). My feeling is also that personally he doesn't like Metro, so he is predisposed to picking fault with Windows 8 like Notch is, proclaiming that it is the first step towards a "closed" system. It is probably also responsible for global warming and two-headed calves being born in Norfolk.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloody_Pete
The reason that it wont turn into a closed system is because Valve is morally against such things. See here: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/11/05/valve-shows-off-steam-hardware-promises-no-exclusives/

They don't like current market trends, hence why they're doing this. You have to remember, Valve isn't a normal business, it has no managers and isn't a driven for profit company. This is why HL3 hasn't appeared, as I expect there's a total apathy for making it there, while a studio such as EA would have cranked out 3 by now to cash in on the hype. You can compare valve to how the others work, as they simply don't work the same way.

Yeah, Google started out that way once.
Corky42 6th November 2013, 10:06 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexxo
Indeed. As long as you can download Steam on your Windows machine, it is open. But Gabe sees the emergence of the Windows App Store as a competitive threat (while strangely, he doesn't see the OSX App Store in the same way --but Apple doesn't have an XBox division like Microsoft does). My feeling is also that personally he doesn't like Metro, so he is predisposed to picking fault with Windows 8 like Notch is, proclaiming that it is the first step towards a "closed" system. It is probably also responsible for global warming and two-headed calves being born in Norfolk.

I think you maybe letting your love for Windows 8 get in the way of seeing where Microsoft is heading and why Newel is so against Microsoft, Apple and the other big players approach to the PC ecosystem.

He doesn't see the app stores as a competitive threat, he sees them as stifling innovation through the use of ever stricter rules and licensing fees. You only have to look at the costs involved in trying to publish software, Microsoft's app store charges $49 for an individual person to register and then takes a %30 cut on every sale. Do you think this registration fee is going to go down over time or up ?

Anyone with a little foresite can see Microsoft, Apple and the others want to switch from a single purchase model, to a subscription based model. After all why have your revenue stream dependent on selling single products that people may or may not upgrade to, when you can instead charge a fee every month or every time someone uses your service.
Gareth Halfacree 6th November 2013, 11:41 Quote
Minor update: Engadget claims that SteamOS won't be based on Ubuntu, which is odd 'cos the current version certainly is. Instead, it'll be entirely custom (well, as 'custom' as you can get when you're just bundling together GNU/Linux with a desktop environment and running your own application on top). Apparently, though, there's a long way to go with a massive list of things the host OS can't do yet. Like media playback(!)
Corky42 6th November 2013, 12:27 Quote
It wouldn't surprise me if Steam big picture mode is the default desktop environment, make it simple for the PCWorld crowd and less chance of problems.
Gareth Halfacree 6th November 2013, 12:29 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corky42
It wouldn't surprise me if Steam big picture mode is the default desktop environment, make it simple for the PCWorld crowd and less chance of problems.
It is. Well, it isn't, 'cos Steam isn't a DE. Basically, the thing will boot into Steam in Big Picture mode, running on top of an as-yet unspecified DE (so it loads the DE, then Steam.) You'll be able to access non-gaming software through Steam (like you already can,) or you can quit or minimise Steam to access the underlying DE proper. Which is the bit that isn't quite finished yet, according to Engadget.
teppic 6th November 2013, 12:32 Quote
It'd be simple to put up a box on first run to ask if you want big picture mode or desktop as your default. Valve's said that the hardware won't be locked down, you'll be free to do what you want with it. As for equating Windows with openness, that's just plain ludicrous :)
teppic 6th November 2013, 12:34 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gareth Halfacree
It is. Well, it isn't, 'cos Steam isn't a DE. Basically, the thing will boot into Steam in Big Picture mode, running on top of an as-yet unspecified DE (so it loads the DE, then Steam.) You'll be able to access non-gaming software through Steam (like you already can,) or you can quit or minimise Steam to access the underlying DE proper. Which is the bit that isn't quite finished yet, according to Engadget.

Not necessarily, you can launch a full screen application without any desktop environment.
Gareth Halfacree 6th November 2013, 12:41 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by teppic
Not necessarily, you can launch a full screen application without any desktop environment.
You can. (Heck, you can launch a full-screen application without X!) However, that's not what Valve is doing.
teppic 6th November 2013, 12:49 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gareth Halfacree
You can. (Heck, you can launch a full-screen application without X!) However, that's not what Valve is doing.

It'd make sense to have a desktop environment along with Steam for flexibility, even if Steam autoloads full screen, but in their final build they could just as easily have the option for it to boot directly to Steam (as is easily done with XBMC).

As to Ubuntu, I'd be surprised if it's not a Debian derivative given all their focus so far has been on Ubuntu.
Corky42 6th November 2013, 20:11 Quote
Microsoft weighs in on Valve’s living room strategy, admits Windows gaming should be like Steam
Quote:
“Valve is right down the street from us,” Spencer noted. “They’ve done a great job of keeping the PC ecosystem strong at a time where I don’t mind saying that we could have been more focused on what was going on in PC gaming.”
Nexxo 6th November 2013, 21:13 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corky42
I think you maybe letting your love for Windows 8 get in the way of seeing where Microsoft is heading and why Newel is so against Microsoft, Apple and the other big players approach to the PC ecosystem.

He doesn't see the app stores as a competitive threat, he sees them as stifling innovation through the use of ever stricter rules and licensing fees. You only have to look at the costs involved in trying to publish software, Microsoft's app store charges $49 for an individual person to register and then takes a %30 cut on every sale. Do you think this registration fee is going to go down over time or up ?
Yeah, because Gabel really worries about game innovation. No, he primarily worries about making money.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corky42
Anyone with a little foresite can see Microsoft, Apple and the others want to switch from a single purchase model, to a subscription based model. After all why have your revenue stream dependent on selling single products that people may or may not upgrade to, when you can instead charge a fee every month or every time someone uses your service.
And Steam will follow. What with many games now having an on-line multi-player component to them, prescription costs may be inevitable. Someone's got to pay for the server upkeep.

Tell you what, though: this guy has got it spot on. It also highlights that even Microsoft thinks that it is not very threatening competition for Steam. I think that Microsoft should have done much, much more to court Steam to stay on Windows. Give them their own app store on Windows RT, for instance.

Another interesting thing to read in this is how modest and complimentary a Microsoft spokesperson is about a competitor. No more arrogant dismissals and put-downs that come back later to bite them in the ass. Hopefully this is a new trend.
forum_user 7th November 2013, 00:47 Quote
I did want a SteamBox ...

Now I want a BattleBox running SteamOS!!

http://www.geforce.co.uk/whats-new/articles/nvidia-geforce-gtx-battlebox
Corky42 7th November 2013, 01:50 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexxo
Yeah, because Gabel really worries about game innovation. No, he primarily worries about making money.
Are they not two sides of the same coin ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexxo
And Steam will follow. What with many games now having an on-line multi-player component to them, prescription costs may be inevitable. Someone's got to pay for the server upkeep.

Tell you what, though: this guy has got it spot on. It also highlights that even Microsoft thinks that it is not very threatening competition for Steam. I think that Microsoft should have done much, much more to court Steam to stay on Windows. Give them their own app store on Windows RT, for instance.

Another interesting thing to read in this is how modest and complimentary a Microsoft spokesperson is about a competitor. No more arrogant dismissals and put-downs that come back later to bite them in the ass. Hopefully this is a new trend.

Newell has actual gone on record that he wants the opposite of subscription based services, in fact Newell himself admits, Steam is a "dictatorship," and that has to change. http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/186168/
Quote:
Newell outlined his vision of where Steam is going: doing away with the approval process, converting Steam into a network API that any developer can call, transferring ownership of its "boring" storefront to its users and, surprisingly, killing off the "Greenlight" crowd-voted approval process introduced just months ago.

As for server costing money to run, that is true but then how do you explain the thousands of free TF2, DOTA 2, CSS servers, and many many other non subscription based games ?

And as i quoted earlier from the original interview on Gamesbeat with Phil Harrison he say they neglected gaming on the PC in favor of the Xbox, but even though i have re-read it i cant find the part were he mentions that "Microsoft thinks that it is not very threatening competition for Steam." In fact he says...
Quote:
Even though Valve faces a significant challenge, Spencer believes it’s capable of pulling it off.

“They’re smart. They’ve been through it. I think they can do it,” he said. “But I think it will take time.”
Nexxo 7th November 2013, 09:18 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corky42
Are they not two sides of the same coin ?
Not necessarily, no. Ask Coca-Cola.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corky42
Newell has actual gone on record that he wants the opposite of subscription based services, in fact Newell himself admits, Steam is a "dictatorship," and that has to change. http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/186168/
Google once said: "Don't be evil".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corky42
As for server costing money to run, that is true but then how do you explain the thousands of free TF2, DOTA 2, CSS servers, and many many other non subscription based games ?
How much do those games cost again? Not an option with Steam games by Indy companies that cost a fiver.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corky42
And as i quoted earlier from the original interview on Gamesbeat with Phil Harrison he say they neglected gaming on the PC in favor of the Xbox, but even though i have re-read it i cant find the part were he mentions that "Microsoft thinks that it is not very threatening competition for Steam." In fact he says...

He says that Valve is doing something that Microsoft should have been doing; that Microsoft needs to focus and catch up in that area.
Corky42 7th November 2013, 11:05 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexxo
Not necessarily, no. Ask Coca-Cola.
Sorry you've lost me :?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexxo
Google once said: "Don't be evil".
Yes nice marketing ploy wasn't it, after all what is evil ? using unambiguous words like evil are not comparable with actually saying what you want or don't want to do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexxo
How much do those games cost again? Not an option with Steam games by Indy companies that cost a fiver.
TF2 is free, DOTA 2 is free, CSS is £13.99, but there are a good few free games running free servers on steam. http://store.steampowered.com/genre/Indie/
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexxo
He says that Valve is doing something that Microsoft should have been doing; that Microsoft needs to focus and catch up in that area.
So shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted you mean ? Microsoft has neglected PC gaming for the last 12 odd years, instead preferring to concentrate on the Xbox.

Its another reason why Windows is far from ideal when it comes to playing games, since XP Microsoft focused on making Windows more stable (Vista onwards) and now they are focusing on mobile computing with Windows 8 onwards.
GeorgeStorm 7th November 2013, 11:14 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corky42
TF2 is free, DOTA 2 is free, CSS is £13.99, but there are a good few free games running free servers on steam. http://store.steampowered.com/genre/Indie/

Not wanting to get involved really, but while yes both DOTA and TF2 are free, they are full of micro-transactions, I remember reading a while back that since TF2 went F2P it was earning more than than when you had to pay for it, and in my mind micro-transactions are very similar to a subscription based service, potentially even worse.
GuilleAcoustic 7th November 2013, 12:05 Quote
I don't care about micro-transaction if they are "purely cosmetic". PathOfExile is free and has micro-transaction, but they are all comestic (change the way your spell / items llok, add a pet that only follow you). The only non-cosmetic one it the possibility to buy additional tabs for your stab / crest (but it's not really necessary to enjoy the game).

I stopped playing gunbound because of the "Power user", using the credit card to buy stuff. That was very unfair and created unbalanced match.

About Microsoft, I started to hate them when I installed XP, to discovered that they retired from PC peripheral and I was unable to use my MS gampeds. I had to use generic driver and lost the possibility to program my expensive dual strike (trigger acting like mouse buttons, game button acting like keyboard keys or combo or keys).
forum_user 7th November 2013, 12:17 Quote
F2P is a diverse debate. I never cease to be amused at the people who rant on forums about how unfair a game is when someone can buy game-changing stuff. The irony is that if people liked a game in the old days they would pay between £24.99 and £34.99 (give or take). These days they get a game for free and moan that someone dare spend money to gain an advantage - even though that transaction has also financed their own enjoyment of said game. The best thing to do is stop being a freeloader and pay to play - or just dont bother sucking the life out of a community who do want to enjoy the game, and go BUY a game like the old days.
Corky42 7th November 2013, 12:23 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeStorm
Not wanting to get involved really, but while yes both DOTA and TF2 are free, they are full of micro-transactions, I remember reading a while back that since TF2 went F2P it was earning more than than when you had to pay for it, and in my mind micro-transactions are very similar to a subscription based service, potentially even worse.

Getting involved is what open forums are all about imho ;)
Yes they both feature micro-transactions, i can only speak about TF2 as i hated DOTA when i gave it a try. With TF2 afaik it does make more money now than when you had to pay for it, so in effect it cost anything from £0 to £9999

I don't mind micro-transactions as long as its like GuilleAcoustic says "purely cosmetic" its when it becomes P2W that it sucks.
GuilleAcoustic 7th November 2013, 12:29 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by forum_user
F2P is a diverse debate. I never cease to be amused at the people who rant on forums about how unfair a game is when someone can buy game-changing stuff. The irony is that if people liked a game in the old days they would pay between £24.99 and £34.99 (give or take). These days they get a game for free and moan that someone dare spend money to gain an advantage - even though that transaction has also financed their own enjoyment of said game. The best thing to do is stop being a freeloader and pay to play - or just dont bother sucking the life out of a community who do want to enjoy the game, and go BUY a game like the old days.

I DO buy games, I just don't like the principle of PAY TO WIN. I never cracked a game and always paid for them, even multiple times for some of my fav games (paid for FF7 on PC, then re-paid to get the PS1 version to play it on my PS2, then re-paid for the PSP one via classic PSN). I never give $0 to the Indie because I support the charity and the Linux gaming.

I'm a former game developer, so I get your point, but game based on PVP only should not propose buying stuff with real money ... it just ruin everything. It's not the fact of paying to play that I criticize, but the PAY TO WIN. Just look at D3 and the auction house, it ruined everything.

Look at POE model, cosmetic microtransaction works well. I understand you position, many people around me doesn't want to pay and often give the worst argument I've ever heard : "I've already paid 500e for the PS3, I won't pay for the game" ... no comment.

People buy an eBook reader and download thousands of ebook illegaly), torrent and alikes are everywhere. I had a debate with some collegues about Newsgroups recently. I can't understand how you can live when paying a guy to get "unlimited access" to illegal things. Newsgroups holder are making money with the work of other peoples without giving them anything.

I bought all my games (prolly over a hundred), I have like 200 dvd (all bought) and even more cd (bought too). I cannot buy too many of them each month, if I want something I just wait to have the income instead of going the torrent way to have it right now at zero cost.

Edit: A month ago my nefew asked me to get him a cracked version of 3DS ... instead of that, I taught him Skecthup, Gimp, mypaint, Blender. Gave him tons of link for those free software and he understood that free softwares can do the job pretty well ... instead of just pirated version of commercial softs.
Nexxo 8th November 2013, 09:29 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corky42
Sorry you've lost me :?
Some products are sold on the principle that they haven't changed since the company was established in the 1900's.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corky42
Yes nice marketing ploy wasn't it, after all what is evil ? using unambiguous words like evil are not comparable with actually saying what you want or don't want to do.
OK, more specific: Google broke its 2005 promise to never show banner ads. Companies change their minds, like people do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corky42
So shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted you mean ? Microsoft has neglected PC gaming for the last 12 odd years, instead preferring to concentrate on the Xbox.

Yup, as Microsoft is wont to do. :p
Corky42 8th November 2013, 11:15 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexxo
Some products are sold on the principle that they haven't changed since the company was established in the 1900's.
Buts its not like they don't innovate or change, cocaine is no longer an ingredient and remember the new Coke in the 80's then there is Cherry Cola, Diet Coke, Caffeine-Free Diet Coke, Cola with Lemon, Cola Vanilla, Cola with Lime, Cola Orange. Then there are all the changes made to the bottles and the logo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexxo
OK, more specific: Google broke its 2005 promise to never show banner ads. Companies change their minds, like people do.
Yes and when they do people get miffed and start looking for alternatives, opening the market up for another company to offer what people want. If Newell started to do U turns on the openness of the software and hardware people would look for alternatives and vote with their wallets, just as they do with other products.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexxo
Yup, as Microsoft is wont to do. :p
Sorry i think im having a brain burp, or that sentence really doesn't make sense :o
Gareth Halfacree 8th November 2013, 11:39 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corky42
Sorry i think im having a brain burp, or that sentence really doesn't make sense :o
"Wont" is a different word to "won't." "As Microsoft is wont to do" is basically a flowery form of "as is Microsoft's habit or custom." If you are wont to do something, you do it customarily or habitually; that something is your wont. For example: "I have once again picked up an outdated, near-useless piece of microcomputing history which I have no room to store - as is my wont."

(It's a Dragon 64 transplanted into a third-party Compu Trac d case with twin 3.5" disk drives and a switch to boot into SuperDos E6 or Cumana Dos 2.0 ROMS. If you were wondering.)
GuilleAcoustic 8th November 2013, 11:49 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gareth Halfacree
"Wont" is a different word to "won't." "As Microsoft is wont to do" is basically a flowery form of "as is Microsoft's habit or custom." If you are wont to do something, you do it customarily or habitually; that something is your wont. For example: "I have once again picked up an outdated, near-useless piece of microcomputing history which I have no room to store - as is my wont."

(It's a Dragon 64 transplanted into a third-party Compu Trac d case with twin 3.5" disk drives and a switch to boot into SuperDos E6 or Cumana Dos 2.0 ROMS. If you were wondering.)

What a pleasure to have an explaination ! (+rep for that). Computing history is the most interesting, I'm not really having fun with today's computer. That's why I'm heading to an ARM dev rig, maybe the way to find once again the joy I had on my early computing days :D
Gareth Halfacree 8th November 2013, 12:15 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuilleAcoustic
What a pleasure to have an explaination ! (+rep for that).
I live to serve.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuilleAcoustic
Computing history is the most interesting, I'm not really having fun with today's computer. That's why I'm heading to an ARM dev rig, maybe the way to find once again the joy I had on my early computing days :D
There's definitely more excitement surrounding ARM than x86 these days, and devices like the Pi and the stuff that comes out of Bulgaria from Olimex reminds me something powerful of the microcomputing boom. That said, if I were clever enough to be developin' stuff rather than just writin' about it, I'd be turning to FPGAs. In particular, the $99 Adapteva Parallella: it's an ARM platform, it's an FPGA, and it's even a bizarre 16-core highly-parallel thingumyboby. Now *that's* what I call a toy.
Corky42 8th November 2013, 12:28 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gareth Halfacree
"Wont" is a different word to "won't."
Ahhh thank you for educating me
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gareth Halfacree
(It's a Dragon 64 transplanted into a third-party Compu Trac d case with twin 3.5" disk drives and a switch to boot into SuperDos E6 or Cumana Dos 2.0 ROMS. If you were wondering.)
You will soon be a rival to Bletchley park :D
GuilleAcoustic 8th November 2013, 12:44 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gareth Halfacree
That said, if I were clever enough to be developin' stuff rather than just writin' about it, I'd be turning to FPGAs. In particular, the $99 Adapteva Parallella: it's an ARM platform, it's an FPGA, and it's even a bizarre 16-core highly-parallel thingumyboby. Now *that's* what I call a toy.

Our minds are connected ... read my last post to my Amiga reborn project : http://forums.bit-tech.net/showthread.php?p=3448160#post3448160 :D
Log in

You are not logged in, please login with your forum account below. If you don't already have an account please register to start contributing.



Discuss in the forums