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EA: 'Dragon Age 2 DLC caused removal from Steam'

EA: 'Dragon Age 2 DLC caused removal from Steam'

EA has confirmed that Dragon Age 2 DLC is the reason the game is no longer available on Steam.

Electronic Arts has confirmed that some of it's games have been removed from Steam because of disagreements over how DLC should be sold.

Speaking to Shacknews about the recent disappearance of Dragon Age 2 from the Steam store, EA's David DeMartini said that Valve's policies on the topic were 'restrictive'.

'At EA, we offer our games and content to all major download services including GameStop, Amazon, Direct2Drive and Steam,' said DeMartini.

'Unfortunately, Steam has adopted a set of restrictive terms of service which limit how developers interact with customers to sell downloadable content. No other download service has adopted this practice. Consequently, some of our games have been removed by Steam. We hope to work out an agreement to keep our games on Steam.'

EA hasn't explained exactly what Valve's terms of service dictate, while Valve has remained typically mute on the matter.

Earlier this year, EA announced a digital distribution platform of its own, dubbed Origin.

You can check out the trailer for the latest bit of Dragon Age 2 DLC below and read our Dragon Age 2 review for more information. Let us know your thoughts in the forums.

53 Comments

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Evildead666 29th July 2011, 12:38 Quote
There are plenty of games on steam that sell extra DLC.
It would seem to me that EA wants to do it another way, and Steam said, "No Way, what makes you special ?".
liratheal 29th July 2011, 12:41 Quote
Certainly sounds like BS to me.

EA want to push Origin, and sadly, Origin will never take off.
Mentai 29th July 2011, 13:03 Quote
Die in a fire Origin.
Venares 29th July 2011, 13:20 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mentai
Die in a fire Origin.

What he said.
demonisch 29th July 2011, 13:48 Quote
I am wondering if it is because for mass effect and dragon age you do not buy DLC via steam, instead you buy "bioware" points and then get the DLC from a third party source. Whilst this has been done for years, maybe something has changed. I bet it is origin related though.

At this rate it looks like mass effect 3 will not be on steam. Screw origin, I'll just buy the game from Amazon
ccxo 29th July 2011, 13:59 Quote
Wondr how long till EA, gives up on origin and just goes and buys valve and steam.
Coldon 29th July 2011, 14:08 Quote
afaik, steam has a problem with DLC that isnt sold through steam (i.e. valve doesnt get a cut of the price) and thats pretty much the root of the problem. EA wants the whole price for the DLC content and valve wants a cut... IMO Valve should suck it up as they are already making tons of money from EA titles and losing out of some DLC profits will be better in the long run. If another publisher also offer DLC directly through them then those games will also get removed from steam.
Jehla 29th July 2011, 14:11 Quote
Will I still be able to redownload my copy of DA2 from steam?
TAG 29th July 2011, 14:11 Quote
NFS Shift 2's free DLC is on Origin only
Crysis 2 was pulled from steam
Now DA2

....

I think it's clear what they're doing is pushing their Origin platform pretexting BS to make steam look mysteriously evil.
mighty_pirate 29th July 2011, 14:51 Quote
Rumour has it the new Steam Terms of Service that were implemented this year state that any DLC released after the ToS start for a base game that is on Steam must be sold through Steam also, rather than in-game or through any seperate store or website. So any pre-existing Bioware/GFWL (etc) DLC is fine, but new DLC must be sold through Steam. As & when new DLC is released that doesn't conform to this new ToS, the "offending" base game is removed from Steam.
I see both sides of the argument & both parties seem to be being stubborn & potentially losing out as a result & hurting their fan-bases, but in the long run, there is potential gain for them if they stick to their guns. So I think they'll play it out for some time before anyone buckles... if at all.
EA would seem to be in the weaker position... but they're big & strong enough to weather a rough transition, especially with Battlefield 3 & Mass Effect 3 under their belt (possibly the biggest PC games of this & next year?)

It's a bit of a bugger as I'd like to keep all my games in one place & at the moment that place is Steam. I don't intend to invest any money in Origin until I know it'll stick around & even then it'll have to play a few aces to get me, personally, to choose it over Steam & the bulk of my "library" for any potential purchase. But it might do good for a while if it creates some competion for Steam that consumers benefit from.

But I'm getting bored of all the drawn out positioning & fact-less press releases now.
GeorgeStorm 29th July 2011, 14:53 Quote
I don't see what the big issue is, it's not unreasonable for EA to want to get all of the money for their products, they've got stuff people want, and they've got a distribution service they want to push, and people are surprised they are going to release stuff on their own thing, rather than a rivals?
barndoor101 29th July 2011, 15:15 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccxo
Wondr how long till EA, gives up on origin and just goes and buys valve and steam.

soon it will be the other way round. but i think Valve have too much sense.

It strikes me as odd that for years EA havent had a problem with how Valve is run, then all of a sudden they are too restrictive. Just when Origin is about to launch.

Someone get the scooby snacks, this ones a puzzler...
vdbswong 29th July 2011, 15:28 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by barndoor101
It strikes me as odd that for years EA haven't had a problem with how Valve is run, then all of a sudden they are too restrictive. Just when Origin is about to launch.

As you said, the other way round.

Valve didn't have a problem with how EA/Bioware DLC was run (look at Mass Effect (1+2), Dragon Age and their DLC). Suddenly they now want a slice of the DLC Pie and are throwing EA out of the metaphorical pram until they get it.
Aracos 29th July 2011, 15:31 Quote
I don't care who's at fault here, I just wish both companies would grow up and start acting like adults for the good of the consumer.
kylew 29th July 2011, 15:51 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccxo
Wondr how long till EA, gives up on origin and just goes and buys valve and steam.

Valve is completely privately owned, they have no shareholders or investors outside of the company. Valve employees own Valve, so EA wouldn't just be able to buy them like that.
kylew 29th July 2011, 15:52 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by vdbswong
Quote:
Originally Posted by barndoor101
It strikes me as odd that for years EA haven't had a problem with how Valve is run, then all of a sudden they are too restrictive. Just when Origin is about to launch.

As you said, the other way round.

Valve didn't have a problem with how EA/Bioware DLC was run (look at Mass Effect (1+2), Dragon Age and their DLC). Suddenly they now want a slice of the DLC Pie and are throwing EA out of the metaphorical pram until they get it.

I don't think that is what's happening. It looks like Valve aren't happy with EA making DLC "Origin" only, not that they're selling outside of Steam.
Edwards 29th July 2011, 16:18 Quote
I think it is a fair point that Valve make. Why would anyone buy a game through steam, if they can only get the DLC through Origin? Especially if there is the potential that Origin based DLC doesn't work on a Steam base game.

If the expansion isn't available to buy through Steam, will Valve even be sent a version of it to make compatible with their base version and overlay etc? Will it be updatable(sp?) through Steam?
vdbswong 29th July 2011, 16:23 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by kylew
I don't think that is what's happening. It looks like Valve aren't happy with EA making DLC "Origin" only, not that they're selling outside of Steam.

It's been done before, the Mass Effect PC DLC ("Pinnacle Station" and "Bring Down the Sky" - before the latter went free) was only available via the EADM store and nowhere else.

Also, all the ME2 DLC and DA DLC are (and have always been) only available via the "Bioware Points" system.

It's just that Steam changed their T&Cs between the release of them and DA2/Crysis 2 that has caused them to be removed.

As for making DLC "Origin" only... i personally can't find the "Legacy" DLC on the Origin site, only via Bioware's own DLC store.
vdbswong 29th July 2011, 16:33 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edwards
I think it is a fair point that Valve make. Why would anyone buy a game through steam, if they can only get the DLC through Origin? Especially if there is the potential that Origin based DLC doesn't work on a Steam base game.

If the expansion isn't available to buy through Steam, will Valve even be sent a version of it to make compatible with their base version and overlay etc? Will it be updatable(sp?) through Steam?

There's a lot of talk of Origin being the main reason for this... yet the only DLC i can find on the Origin site is the Shift 2 "Free DLC". This means i have to make the assumption that all the DLC in question which violates Steam's TOS is through their own ingame store.

As for not working with Steam... i've personally had no issues with any of my DLCs (namely the ME1 DLCs and Bad Company 2: Vietnam). I've also successfully integrated the Steam version of ArmA 2 and a shop-bought copy of Operation Arrowhead... incompatibility so far for me is personally a moot point.

Also, i just get the feeling if perceptions of the companies' were the other way round, this would labelled as a marketing ploy by Valve to get negative press for Origin... simply because it's been released just before this incident, yet doesn't seem to have anything to do with it (see above for Origin+DLC comments).
Lenderz 29th July 2011, 16:33 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldon
afaik, steam has a problem with DLC that isnt sold through steam (i.e. valve doesnt get a cut of the price) and thats pretty much the root of the problem. EA wants the whole price for the DLC content and valve wants a cut... IMO Valve should suck it up as they are already making tons of money from EA titles and losing out of some DLC profits will be better in the long run. If another publisher also offer DLC directly through them then those games will also get removed from steam.

That doesn't seem to be the case, it seems to be EA doing it on its own otherwise what I don't get is why is it different to allow purchasing of DLC through Origin than for example buying Dirt3 on Steam and having to purchase the DLC from GFWL (Now part of Xbox.com).....

Just something for everyone who defends EA to consider.
vdbswong 29th July 2011, 16:59 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lenderz
That doesn't seem to be the case, it seems to be EA doing it on its own otherwise what I don't get is why is it different to allow purchasing of DLC through Origin than for example buying Dirt3 on Steam and having to purchase the DLC from GFWL (Now part of Xbox.com).....

Just something for everyone who defends EA to consider.

I'd like to think that the majority of the bit-tech community is sensible and isn't defending EA "just because".

Despite that, i'd also hope that people aren't defending Valve willy-nilly either.

However, "That doesn't seem to be the case" isn't really a strong argument in the face of the statement that it's Valve who have changed their TOS and it was Valve who removed the games from Steam.

I've shown that EA/Bioware has had a history of ingame DLC Stores for games that have been on Steam, and that there doesn't seem to be anything different about the DA2 DLC and maybe the Crysis 2 DLC (i don't have the latter, so can't tell).

Let's also point out that none of the other Digital Download services such as Direct2Drive or Impulse seem to have any issue with it.

And lastly, again with the Origin bashing... does anyone actually have any proof that this DLC is "Origin only"? Since as i stated before... i can't find any of the DLC in question (Crysis 2 DLC or DA2: Legacy) on Origin at all.
Lenderz 29th July 2011, 17:28 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by vdbswong
I'd like to think that the majority of the bit-tech community is sensible and isn't defending EA "just because".

Despite that, i'd also hope that people aren't defending Valve willy-nilly either.

However, "That doesn't seem to be the case" isn't really a strong argument in the face of the statement that it's Valve who have changed their TOS and it was Valve who removed the games from Steam.

I've shown that EA/Bioware has had a history of ingame DLC Stores for games that have been on Steam, and that there doesn't seem to be anything different about the DA2 DLC and maybe the Crysis 2 DLC (i don't have the latter, so can't tell).

Let's also point out that none of the other Digital Download services such as Direct2Drive or Impulse seem to have any issue with it.

And lastly, again with the Origin bashing... does anyone actually have any proof that this DLC is "Origin only"? Since as i stated before... i can't find any of the DLC in question (Crysis 2 DLC or DA2: Legacy) on Origin at all.


I am not naive enough to believe that Valve is perfect, but they do seem to have a vested interest in supporting the PC market, and protecting it. Plus they've already got more money than they can possibly know what to do with, whilst I'm aware they're a business and not at all altruistic I cannot imagine why their changes would only be effecting EA stuff.

Other games, from other publishers do just fine selling DLC outside of Steam (DiRT3 as an example, but other games with GFWL do it as well, I know Batman does).

So just what could have changed that ONLY effects EA games? We just need to be careful not to condemn either side without more information. Personally I like having all my games together on Steam in one account, but I also buy games on Impluse and D2D, but Steam by far has the larger market share, perhaps EA sees that as a threat to origin more than other services.

But until we know more people shouldn't jump to conclusions condeming either side as “evil” until we know more, which is the point I was trying to make clear, it seems evident that theres more to it than “Valve won't let EA sell DLC because they want a cut.”
vdbswong 29th July 2011, 17:58 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lenderz
But until we know more people shouldn't jump to conclusions condeming either side as “evil” until we know more, which is the point I was trying to make clear, it seems evident that theres more to it than “Valve won't let EA sell DLC because they want a cut.”

Nice unbiased view, refreshing for a change :P.

I didn't realise that DiRT 3 had its DLC on a separate platform, it certainly makes me curious, as you said, with regards to what makes EA games special (you know, apart from the money grabbing EA conspiracy). The only thing that stands out to me at the moment is that DA's release is more... substantial than a simple "item, map" etc. and is more like a mini-expansion, how that's treated differently is beyond my guess.

Also with the announcement that Battlefield 3 isn't likely to be on Steam, it makes me wonder if this is also to do with the "Valve/Steam TOS", since like before, they're on D2D and Impulse. A related note could be if EA wanted to sell the "Back to Karkand" through an ingame BF3 shop which is also akin to an "expansion". This would be contrary to BC2: Vietnam which can be bought anywhere and then subsequently added to a Steam version.

Ultimately it doesn't help that Valve refuses to clarify anything and has remained completely silent with regards to both Crysis and now DA2... another side's perspective would certainly help.
SighMoan 29th July 2011, 19:43 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by vdbswong


As you said, the other way round.

Valve didn't have a problem with how EA/Bioware DLC was run (look at Mass Effect (1+2), Dragon Age and their DLC). Suddenly they now want a slice of the DLC Pie and are throwing EA out of the metaphorical pram until they get it.

Exactly. As someone has said before, everyone seems to think that Valve can do no wrong. Of course they can, they are a company out to make money just like EA.
Sloth 29th July 2011, 19:54 Quote
Quote:
Steam has adopted a set of restrictive terms of service which limit how developers interact with customers to sell downloadable content
If that's not a load of PR crap I don't know what is. "Interact with customers"? Spare me, there's no "interaction", just sales.

Valve's reason for being strict on the subject seems reasonable: You buy your game on Steam, any DLC should be available there as well. The Steam system is meant to be an all-in-one gaming platform, unlike other digital distributors which are more standalone experiences. A more detailed understanding of the ToS would be required to see exactly how "restrictive" Valve is, though.

Again it's hard to say without reading over the ToS first, but common sense would say that EA only has to let Valve sell their DLC. They likely aren't asking to be the exlusive provider as they're more than willing to sell games which are available from other sources. My money's on both parties trying to test each other's strength amidst tensions with Origin. Valve knows they'll live without EA, EA knows they'll live without Valve, queue e-peen waving contest.

Also, as mighty_pirate points out, rumors (and more common sense) has it that this only applies to games added after the new ToS. Any confusion with games that don't conform can likely be explained by the release date, anything that's already released likely negotiated it's terms of sales on Steam before the new ToS.
vdbswong 29th July 2011, 20:26 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sloth
Valve's reason for being strict on the subject seems reasonable: You buy your game on Steam, any DLC should be available there as well. The Steam system is meant to be an all-in-one gaming platform, unlike other digital distributors which are more standalone experiences. A more detailed understanding of the ToS would be required to see exactly how "restrictive" Valve is, though.

I personally disagree here. If the content in question is coming from an in-game store, then i don't have any issue with it. It's not as if you need to use another program/platform to access it, in fact it integrates itself with the Steam game and becomes a part of the game itself.

If the issue was specifically "Origin only DLC", either that you had to have an Origin copy of the game, or that the only place to buy the DLC was Origin, then i could probably see the problem.

However, note the latter isn't the case here. These are in-game stores and nothing to do with the Origin platform itself (so far at least).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sloth
Valve knows they'll live without EA, EA knows they'll live without Valve, queue e-peen waving contest.

Pretty much.

However, issues are going to occur if/when other publishers/indie developers ever move away from Valve because of these TOSs.

EA at least has a lot of familiar names and blockbuster titles to push Origin with (Battlefield, Mass Effect, Dragon Age, The Old Republic etc.), even if they don't accept games from 3rd Party Publishers.

Valve on the other hand appear to be complacent, wallowing in all the cash they've earned from Steam, just look at the amount of QQ'ing about Episode 3. Their last big title was Portal 2, but before that was Left 4 Dead 2, 2 years ago.
jimmyjj 29th July 2011, 20:36 Quote
What do Valve actually do that is so special?

Ok silly question, Steam is great BUT:

it is just a content delivery system. Anyone can look at it and copy it and make a service just as good.

However, having games as amazing as Mass Effect and Battlefield is NOT something that everyone can do.

If they start pissing off big publishers they could find themselves in trouble. OK, its only EA now but if others jump ship then they could be in trouble.
vdbswong 29th July 2011, 20:51 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyjj
What do Valve actually do that is so special?

Valve as a developer are rather dedicated to the PC sector.

For example look at the mass of free TF2 updates and the free content packs for Left 4 Dead (which required money on XBLA).

Overall they've done a great job of constantly evolving many of their PC games to keep up with the times.

However you're correct in that because of it they seem to have... "lost focus" in their publishing side and i assume are relying on Steam's profits rather than their own games now.
Sloth 29th July 2011, 20:54 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by vdbswong
I personally disagree here. If the content in question is coming from an in-game store, then i don't have any issue with it. It's not as if you need to use another program/platform to access it, in fact it integrates itself with the Steam game and becomes a part of the game itself.

If the issue was specifically "Origin only DLC", either that you had to have an Origin copy of the game, or that the only place to buy the DLC was Origin, then i could probably see the problem.

However, note the latter isn't the case here. These are in-game stores and nothing to do with the Origin platform itself (so far at least).
Valve's reasoning (aside from wanting a cut on sales) is likely that their customers can't use the actual Steam platfrom as an all-in-one. A customer can't simply toss a game and all of the game's DLC into their cart on Steam and buy it. An in-game store, while at least letting customers not have to download other programs, still requires logging into a different store.
Quote:

Pretty much.

However, issues are going to occur if/when other publishers/indie developers ever move away from Valve because of these TOSs.

EA at least has a lot of familiar names and blockbuster titles to push Origin with (Battlefield, Mass Effect, Dragon Age, The Old Republic etc.), even if they don't accept games from 3rd Party Publishers.

Valve on the other hand appear to be complacent, wallowing in all the cash they've earned from Steam, just look at the amount of QQ'ing about Episode 3. Their last big title was Portal 2, but before that was Left 4 Dead 2, 2 years ago.
Being a company which needs money to survive just like anyone else, Valve can always turn back on their policies if they back-fire.

Again, it really doesn't seem to be a big issue, EA is just making a pissing contest out of it and Valve being as they are won't say anything or back down. What does it take to fix this? Offer the DLC on Steam. The game is already sold on Steam, why is adding the DLC a problem?
vdbswong 29th July 2011, 21:16 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sloth
Valve's reasoning (aside from wanting a cut on sales) is likely that their customers can't use the actual Steam platfrom as an all-in-one. A customer can't simply toss a game and all of the game's DLC into their cart on Steam and buy it. An in-game store, while at least letting customers not have to download other programs, still requires logging into a different store.

I see your point and that's very true, however the companies' in question usually offer a "Game of the Year" Edition of sorts, which includes all subsequent DLC.

Obviously it's not exactly what you're on about, however i'd say it's an "endgame" solution to your issue.

I can see why some people dislike the idea of a "shop within a shop", however i'm sure you could also make an argument that cutting Valve into it means they may have to price DLC higher than they want to. Note, i'm not saying it's a valid argument (or invalid for that matter), just that it's a consideration.

And personally i dislike seeing DLC on Steam since i think it clutters up the storefront.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sloth
Being a company which needs money to survive just like anyone else, Valve can always turn back on their policies if they back-fire.

True, however how many Publishers will they be able to mend relationships with after their "holier-than-thou" attitude? <- That's not supposed to be taken seriously (the point is, not the wording).

I mean if Origin establishes itself as a stable platform (and with so many AAA titles under its belt, i can't help but feel it'll be forced to), will EA actually need Steam again?

I mean there are many people like me who will always prefer Steam over any other platform/service simply because of convenience (or OCD of having everything organised). However that's not going to stop me from getting Battlefield 3 or Mass Effect 3 from Origin if the Steam option isn't available... i've already preorder SW:TOR from there anyways.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sloth
Again, it really doesn't seem to be a big issue, EA is just making a pissing contest out of it and Valve being as they are won't say anything or back down. What does it take to fix this? Offer the DLC on Steam.

Well... for that i'd say that technically Valve made the pissing contest and EA aren't too bothered by it (especially since they now have Origin).

I mean it's all EA PR talk - but that's at least more to go on that "assuming" what Valve's response/stance on the situation is.

Other services don't seem to have taken issue with EA and are still happily selling their games.

So, "What does it take to fix this?" Valve to revert their TOSs.

Just another perspective really.

Oh and Sloth, pop into the League thread with your opinions of HoN going Free to Play ;).
Farfalho 29th July 2011, 21:26 Quote
Putting the blame on Steam for their cockiness (is that a word?) and to possibly have a "plausible" reason to remove their games from it and start advertising Origin. Really EA, is that how low you want to act?!

Have balls and say: "We'll be launching Origin, therefore, all of our IP is going to migrate from every other digital distribuition platforms to Origin. Yes, we are that bold and confident about Origin!"
vdbswong 29th July 2011, 21:31 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farfalho
Have balls and say: "We'll be launching Origin, therefore, all of our IP is going to migrate from every other digital distribuition platforms to Origin. Yes, we are that bold and confident about Origin!"

/Facepalm... have you read anything in this thread at all?

I mean, EA have moved all DLC options to Origin now right? That's why there's so much DLC available on the platform right now - oh wait.

And it's obviously why every other online service like D2D and Impulse have pulled EA Games "oh wait again, i see what you did there".

Don't confuse the apparently coincidental Origin release date and the issues with Crysis 2 and DA2.

I guess i should have expected some mindless EA bashing (because it's cool now right?) after such a nice period of actual discussion.

EDIT: Bleh, maybe it sounds too harsh, don't take it personally.
Lenderz 29th July 2011, 22:21 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by vdbswong
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farfalho
Have balls and say: "We'll be launching Origin, therefore, all of our IP is going to migrate from every other digital distribuition platforms to Origin. Yes, we are that bold and confident about Origin!"

/Facepalm... have you read anything in this thread at all?

I mean, EA have moved all DLC options to Origin now right? That's why there's so much DLC available on the platform right now - oh wait.

And it's obviously why every other online service like D2D and Impulse have pulled EA Games "oh wait again, i see what you did there".

Don't confuse the apparently coincidental Origin release date and the issues with Crysis 2 and DA2.

I guess i should have expected some mindless EA bashing (because it's cool now right?) after such a nice period of actual discussion.

EDIT: Bleh, maybe it sounds too harsh, don't take it personally.

To be fair there's a fair amount of ill informed steam/valve bashing going on too. People seem to be glossing over the fact I posted about other DLC for other games only being available outside steam but working within steam games.

People are running with assumptions, incorrect ones, likely on both sides. It's why fanboyism sucks, it removes any rational thought from a discussion.

What I'm curious about is how far this spat will go, valve is an Indy dev and I remember publishers fighting to get the right to publish valve games on disk when the vivendi/valve relationship broke down.

EA won that fight, I can't help but wonder if they may be souring that relationship.
vdbswong 29th July 2011, 23:08 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lenderz
To be fair there's a fair amount of ill informed steam/valve bashing going on too. People seem to be glossing over the fact I posted about other DLC for other games only being available outside steam but working within steam games.

You're right, i mean even i didn't know about the DiRT 3/GFWL stuff you pointed out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lenderz
People are running with assumptions, incorrect ones, likely on both sides. It's why fanboyism sucks, it removes any rational thought from a discussion.

Quote of the Thread i think :P.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lenderz
What I'm curious about is how far this spat will go, valve is an Indy dev and I remember publishers fighting to get the right to publish valve games on disk when the vivendi/valve relationship broke down.

EA won that fight, I can't help but wonder if they may be souring that relationship.

I actually twigged on that as well when taking a quick browse through Valve's back catalogue on wikipedia when looking for dates etc.

It would mean the last title was Portal 2 in April, however that would give 2 months before Crysis 2 was removed from Steam (Origin being released just under 2 weeks before that, for reference).
greypilgers 29th July 2011, 23:56 Quote
Seems to me that a fair few comments have been made saying EA arent being restrictive because it's only Steam their games and/or DLC are not being sold via, but seriously add up all the other downloadable services together and they don't make a dent on Steams userbase. Steam is almost ubiquitous for this type of service, and is now a byword in the industry. Of course EA can afford to let the minnows keep stuff, they are easier to force to toe the line, and it gives them the nice tag that they aren't being non-competitive, because 'Hey, Direct2Drive is selling our games, just not mean old Steam' and the smaller services are incentivised to agree to whatever EA conditions are put down, because if Steam isn't selling the new Mass Effect 3 or whatever, that just made the market-share pie potentially alot bigger for those guys to aim for.
impar 30th July 2011, 00:02 Quote
Greetings!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldon
EA wants the whole price for the DLC content and valve wants a cut... IMO Valve should suck it up as they are already making tons of money from EA titles and losing out of some DLC profits will be better in the long run.
And when a F2P, or very cheap game, is released on Steam with a built-in store to avoid giving Steam a cut?
Should Steam service such a game?
MSHunter 30th July 2011, 00:08 Quote
LOL it is amazing how many people here can not read!
the statement says EA sells there games over as many Online stores as possible and gives a list of said stores. When one of these stores (Steam) then changes their TOS and says if you sell it ells where then we will not sell it and EA continues to sell over the other online retails then the guilty party (greedy) would be who?

'At EA, we offer our games and content to all major download services including GameStop, Amazon, Direct2Drive and Steam,'

Could some one check to see if DA 2 has been removed from the other retailers? Then maybe we would be better informed. Seems like poor journalism not to check this tbh.
greypilgers 30th July 2011, 00:13 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSHunter
LOL it is amazing how many people here can not read!
the statement says EA sells there games over as many Online stores as possible and gives a list of said stores. When one of these stores (Steam) then changes their TOS and says if you sell it ells where then we will not sell it and EA continues to sell over the other online retails then the guilty party (greedy) would be who?

'At EA, we offer our games and content to all major download services including GameStop, Amazon, Direct2Drive and Steam,'

Could some one check to see if DA 2 has been removed from the other retailers? Then maybe we would be better informed. Seems like poor journalism not to check this tbh.

Whilst my previous comment cannot be said to be categorically correct and proven, it does fit as an answer to your comment here...

;)
vdbswong 30th July 2011, 00:20 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSHunter
When one of these stores (Steam) then changes their TOS and says if you sell it ells where then we will not sell it and EA continues to sell over the other online retails then the guilty party (greedy) would be who?

Not quite, but nice try.

The actual Terms being discussed here at the moment are with regards to the selling of DLC not available via Steam.
Quote:
Originally Posted by greypilgers
Seems to me that a fair few comments have been made saying EA arent being restrictive because it's only Steam their games and/or DLC are not being sold via, but seriously add up all the other downloadable services together and they don't make a dent on Steams userbase. Steam is almost ubiquitous for this type of service, and is now a byword in the industry. Of course EA can afford to let the minnows keep stuff, they are easier to force to toe the line, and it gives them the nice tag that they aren't being non-competitive, because 'Hey, Direct2Drive is selling our games, just not mean old Steam' and the smaller services are incentivised to agree to whatever EA conditions are put down, because if Steam isn't selling the new Mass Effect 3 or whatever, that just made the market-share pie potentially alot bigger for those guys to aim for.

That's very true, EA have a lot of leverage in the games industry with their catalogue. However if we are to believe EA, Valve are the ones who changed their TOS, rather than EA "enforcing" a particular requirement. Obviously, this might not be completely correct as Valve refuse/have yet to comment, but it's more to go on than anything else.
Lenderz 30th July 2011, 00:38 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSHunter

Could some one check to see if DA 2 has been removed from the other retailers? Then maybe we would be better informed. Seems like poor journalism not to check this tbh.

I'd much rather games journalists ask valve for their take, and keep asking until they get an answer. Much of games journalism seems to be spreading press releases rather than asking too many questions. This isn't a slight on Bit-Tech/CPC as they are better than most in the industry. But I've not read on any site (and I have just had a good old look around multiple sites) "We've asked for valve to comment but have not yet received a response". Which would put pressure on valve to come to the public and state their view on the situation, rather just reprinting a EA PR response.

Games journalism should be much better than it is, for the size of the industry, you wouldn't see this in other sectors.

However I'd like to draw your attention back to the post I made that other games (Dirt3 and Batman for sure in my personal collection) sell DLC through other means for games they sold on steam, notably GFWL sells DLC for Dirt3 and Batman even if you have the steam copy theres no other way to get the DLC.

And both are STILL on sale, I just checked, so theres more to it than Valve wanting a slice of the pie.
greypilgers 30th July 2011, 00:46 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lenderz
I'd much rather games journalists ask valve for their take, and keep asking until they get an answer. Much of games journalism seems to be spreading press releases rather than asking too many questions. This isn't a slight on Bit-Tech/CPC as they are better than most in the industry. But I've not read on any site (and I have just had a good old look around multiple sites) "We've asked for valve to comment but have not yet received a response". Which would put pressure on valve to come to the public and state their view on the situation, rather just reprinting a EA PR response.

Games journalism should be much better than it is, for the size of the industry, you wouldn't see this in other sectors.

However I'd like to draw your attention back to the post I made that other games (Dirt3 and Batman for sure in my personal collection) sell DLC through other means for games they sold on steam, notably GFWL sells DLC for Dirt3 and Batman even if you have the steam copy theres no other way to get the DLC.

And both are STILL on sale, I just checked, so theres more to it than Valve wanting a slice of the pie.

+1 with added orc-bashing damage whenever there's a full moon!

It would be nice to get some real investigative journalism, or a more obvious attmept at it, from the industry media.

And it can't be a coincidence that all this nonsense started when Origin got fired up... My personal feeling is that EA are trying to protect their commercial interests a little too vigorously, but it would certainly help if we had some constructive responses from both sides.
KILLA187 30th July 2011, 09:23 Quote
the problem with steam is ....
EA cant update games on the same time .. every patch has to be checked by valve before publishing via steam
all DLC from EA has to be checked by valve too ... this needs days or weeks ..i dunno ..
but EA wants the stuff out then its done ... valve allways needs time and publishers have no time ;-)

if u buy via steam and game gets patched ..on steam you get the patches later... steam users are allways late and think its EAs fault ....

once i loved valve BUt valve starts to become the new EA ...micro payment in game ... tf2 is a good example .. u can find crates in game..but the keys for crates are only availabel in the steam tf2 store for real money WTF ?!?!?!?
Lenderz 30th July 2011, 10:18 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by KILLA187
the problem with steam is ....
EA cant update games on the same time .. every patch has to be checked by valve before publishing via steam
all DLC from EA has to be checked by valve too ... this needs days or weeks ..i dunno ..
but EA wants the stuff out then its done ... valve allways needs time and publishers have no time ;-)

if u buy via steam and game gets patched ..on steam you get the patches later... steam users are allways late and think its EAs fault ....


Do you have any evidence of that? Is there any reason that EA couldn't have a game patcher, hell even have origin do the updating, like GFWL does for Batman? They could do the updating like other games do with their own updater bypassing steam updating process, do you have any evidence that this is the problem? Or are you just making it up?

Because as it stands there are other ways to update your games in the steam store. So it seems that you're just running on assumption rather than fact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KILLA187

once i loved valve BUt valve starts to become the new EA ...micro payment in game ... tf2 is a good example .. u can find crates in game..but the keys for crates are only availabel in the steam tf2 store for real money WTF ?!?!?!?

You're entitled to your opinion but I don't begrudge Valve monetising TF2 after the YEARS of literally HUNDREDS of free DLC, and the fact they've now made the game free, and at release the Orange Box only cost ~£28.00.

I think you've got unrealistic expectations of what a company can do without monetisation.
CrazyJoe 30th July 2011, 17:19 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lenderz

I think you've got unrealistic expectations of what a company can do without monetisation.

You say that as if you don't think Valve are mega-rich.

Like some people have said, I think Valve's new ToS came in when the F2P games appeared, Valve had to make sure that the F2P games were bringing in money for them so now DLC/micro-transactions must go through Valve so that they can get their cut.

The F2P games/ToS change arrived on June 14th and Crysis 2 DLC came out shortly after, hence it got booted, just like DA2. All games released before the 14th are exempt from this new deal.

The only game that sticks out is DiRT 3 as it breaks the rule (DLC not on Steam) and it could be something as simple as they have a different deal with Valve, or this whole theory could be nonsense. I don't think this has anything to do with Origin at all.
Lenderz 30th July 2011, 17:37 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyJoe
You say that as if you don't think Valve are mega-rich.

Like some people have said, I think Valve's new ToS came in when the F2P games appeared, Valve had to make sure that the F2P games were bringing in money for them so now DLC/micro-transactions must go through Valve so that they can get their cut.

The F2P games/ToS change arrived on June 14th and Crysis 2 DLC came out shortly after, hence it got booted, just like DA2. All games released before the 14th are exempt from this new deal.

The only game that sticks out is DiRT 3 as it breaks the rule (DLC not on Steam) and it could be something as simple as they have a different deal with Valve, or this whole theory could be nonsense. I don't think this has anything to do with Origin at all.

Well I actually referred to Valve being mega rich a page or two ago. ;)

I still think that after many many years of free DLC Valve wanted to try something new (micro transactions) and had internal pressures to monitise TF2 again after all the work/man hours they put in. Valve is a business after all.

They even referred to it in the TF2 blog when announcing the store.

It will be interesting to see how the whole thing shakes out in the end, I like third part stores, impulse, D2D and Steam, I don't want to see every publisher only sell things in their own store which is my only real concern.
CrazyJoe 30th July 2011, 18:24 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lenderz
Well I actually referred to Valve being mega rich a page or two ago. ;)

This thread only has 1 page on my screen so :D

I don't have a problem with Valve making money, just that they seem to be going down the same route as Apple by saying "we get a cut of everything or you can't sell here".

All it takes is for a rival with a bit of weight behind them (yes, I mean EA!) to come along and offer much better deals to publishers and then things get interesting.

It will be a fun time to see what happens in the future.
Lenderz 30th July 2011, 21:10 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyJoe
This thread only has 1 page on my screen so :D

I don't have a problem with Valve making money, just that they seem to be going down the same route as Apple by saying "we get a cut of everything or you can't sell here".

All it takes is for a rival with a bit of weight behind them (yes, I mean EA!) to come along and offer much better deals to publishers and then things get interesting.

It will be a fun time to see what happens in the future.

Thing is that valve is a developer with a publisher attached, whist EA is a publisher that owns some development houses.

Very different ethos I don't see other big publishers offering their games on EAs platform is unlikely IMO, it's more likely that they'll launch their own competitors to sell their games. So we will end up with 5-6 stores installed.
Artanix 31st July 2011, 15:22 Quote
I'm fairly sure this "meeting" between EA and valve involved a table with a pile of cash on it, and 1 representative from each scrambling for the most cash.

Subsequently valve won, and EA took their ball home :D
ssj12 31st July 2011, 17:40 Quote
what, you mean it isnt annoying as hell having to use an external website and service to buy DLC for the games I bought on Steam rather then offering the DLC on Steam doesn't limit your reach to customers? I think EA really needs to fire their mentally challenged management staff, hire people who aren't idiots, and undo the previous management's stupidity.
ssj12 31st July 2011, 17:46 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by mighty_pirate
Rumour has it the new Steam Terms of Service that were implemented this year state that any DLC released after the ToS start for a base game that is on Steam must be sold through Steam also, rather than in-game or through any seperate store or website. So any pre-existing Bioware/GFWL (etc) DLC is fine, but new DLC must be sold through Steam. As & when new DLC is released that doesn't conform to this new ToS, the "offending" base game is removed from Steam.
I see both sides of the argument & both parties seem to be being stubborn & potentially losing out as a result & hurting their fan-bases, but in the long run, there is potential gain for them if they stick to their guns. So I think they'll play it out for some time before anyone buckles... if at all.
EA would seem to be in the weaker position... but they're big & strong enough to weather a rough transition, especially with Battlefield 3 & Mass Effect 3 under their belt (possibly the biggest PC games of this & next year?)

It's a bit of a bugger as I'd like to keep all my games in one place & at the moment that place is Steam. I don't intend to invest any money in Origin until I know it'll stick around & even then it'll have to play a few aces to get me, personally, to choose it over Steam & the bulk of my "library" for any potential purchase. But it might do good for a while if it creates some competion for Steam that consumers benefit from.

But I'm getting bored of all the drawn out positioning & fact-less press releases now.

in general I dont see the issue. I believe the ToS likely states that game sold here, DLC sold here. It does not disallow games and dlc to be sold on other services. This is just EA proving once against they dont give a damn what their customers want.
bluepumpkin 1st August 2011, 11:26 Quote
Arrggh..this annoys me, I was just about to buy DA2 but if it ain't on Steam I can't be bothered. I like all my Games in one place 'Steam'. That's Crysis 2 and Dragon Age now...not to mention the fact that the DLC options from Bioware are a flaming nightmare, I had so much trouble with ME2 that I vowed not to be anything from Bioware not via Steam ever again
DbD 1st August 2011, 16:37 Quote
Personally it annoyed me that I had to go to this funny website to get my mass effect + dragon age DLC. I'd much prefer it all to be done though steam - I don't want an origin login, I don't want to have to buy origin points or whatever they were. I just want one system to buy and update all my games - simples.
SexyHyde 2nd August 2011, 10:34 Quote
I had the bf3 alpha, but couldn't play it because of origin, which is a beta in itself. My own view is origin is just too late to market, steam was extremely rubbish when it first launched (how many years ago?) but is now an extremely polished product. And I've built a big collection of games on steam, so its not like I can stop using it. I will be buying bf3 regardless, but if EA keep acting like morons they may join Activision and ubisoft on my "do not buy" list.
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