bit-gamer.net

PS3 update removes Linux support

PS3 update removes Linux support

Sony's latest 3.21 firmware update will remove support for Linux for security reasons.

Sony is issuing a firmware update this week for the PlayStation 3 which removes support for Linux OS' on the console for "security reasons".

The update will arrive on April 1st, a Thursday, and will bring the firmware of the PS3 up to 3.21.

The announcement comes from Sony's Patrick Seybold, who said that the support is being culled for "security reasons", though he didn't go into much detail beyond that in his comments on the PlayStation blog.

"[It's] due to security concerns ... [and] will help ensure that PS3 owners will continue to have access to the broad range of gaming and entertainment content from SCE and its content partners on a more secure system," said Seybold.

The feature has apparently been missing in the PlayStation 3 Slim before now - news to us!

The removal of Linux support is speculated to be related to the news that PlayStation 3 has been recently (though not completely) cracked by hackers, opening the system up to piracy.

The number of people who actively use Linux on a PS3 is reportedly quite low, but consumer response to the move has proved mostly negative regardless. This is, after all, an update that does nothing but remove functionality.

Let us know your thoughts in the forums.

55 Comments

Discuss in the forums Reply
azrael- 29th March 2010, 12:23 Quote
Would that be for the PS3 as a whole (i.e. every model)? I ask since Linux support was already scrapped with the new PS3 Slim model. Not that I really care one way or the other, but it's always a bit sad when companies limit choice.
crazyceo 29th March 2010, 12:26 Quote
What was the suppoort for Linux OS in the first place?
crazyceo 29th March 2010, 12:26 Quote
edit* support
azrael- 29th March 2010, 12:31 Quote
You could run Yellow Dog Linux (a special distro) on the PS3. Had very limited access, though. Not direct access to graphics for instance.
scawp 29th March 2010, 12:31 Quote
"The feature has apparently been missing in the PlayStation 3 Slim before now - news to us!"
- The PS3 Slim never had linux support. Sony made this quite clear at launch, don't you listen?

Always planned on getting linux instead on my PS3 Fat but never got round to it, guess I never will. Oh well no big loss.
Gareth Halfacree 29th March 2010, 12:32 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by azrael-
You could run Yellow Dog Linux (a special distro) on the PS3.
Certain other distributions, too - including Ubuntu.

It's a shame, as it's a very useful way to get a fully-fledged computer in the living room without needing any extra hardware (sans keyboard and mouse) - although the best features of the hardware are locked away due to Sony's paranoia.
scawp 29th March 2010, 12:33 Quote
edit* installed not instead.
licenced 29th March 2010, 12:33 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyceo
What was the suppoort for Linux OS in the first place?

On the original PS3s you could install another OS - the option was there in the settings menu to allocate disk space for it.

None of the new PS3 Slims have this capability.

It may only be a small percentage of people who actually use this capability, but removing it is just going to annoy them all.
scawp 29th March 2010, 12:41 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by licenced

It may only be a small percentage of people who actually use this capability, but removing it is just going to annoy them all.

Its going to pissed anyone off who has invested in a farm (ps3 farm not a moo cow farm)
cjoyce1980 29th March 2010, 12:41 Quote
I sure I remember Sony saying that they will be support Linux to run on the PS3 during its life cycle. I never used either, nevermind!
cjoyce1980 29th March 2010, 12:42 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by scawp
Quote:
Originally Posted by licenced

It may only be a small percentage of people who actually use this capability, but removing it is just going to annoy them all.

Its going to pissed anyone off who has invested in a farm (ps3 farm not a moo cow farm)

only if you want to use the console online, if not your happy as larry! that is until you pop in the latest game and it updates the firmware without asking you and then your screwed.
droitwichdosser 29th March 2010, 12:48 Quote
Erm... any notice the April 1st date ????????????????????????????????????????
proxess 29th March 2010, 12:52 Quote
I doubt the day has any importance here.
CardJoe 29th March 2010, 13:09 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by droitwichdosser
Erm... any notice the April 1st date ????????????????????????????????????????

If that was the case they'd surely announce it on the day, not a week in advance.
licenced 29th March 2010, 13:11 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjoyce1980
I sure I remember Sony saying that they will be support Linux to run on the PS3 during its life cycle. I never used either, nevermind!

Didn't the US military or some such outfit buy a load of PS3 to set up a Linux farm?
mikeuk2004 29th March 2010, 13:43 Quote
I installed it on my phat because I could, found that I couldnt really do any thing usefull so removed it. I have a laptop for my PC needs. Dont need a console to do the same job.
b5k 29th March 2010, 13:45 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by licenced
Didn't the US military or some such outfit buy a load of PS3 to set up a Linux farm?
Some scientists are finding that a rack of PS3's is more cost efficient than a rack of servers. It seems that there are a lot of things science is scavenging from gaming.

Example, the hardware inside the Wii mote would cost many hundreds of dollars if scientists were to buy it the normal way. Instead for like £40 they get an IR camera that can monitor 3 points at once, a 6 axis motion controller and various other widgets, rather than £500 or smth.

Pretty cool....Except maybe this Linux off PS3 thing will cause problems with the Ps3 server farm thing...
StoneyMahoney 29th March 2010, 13:47 Quote
Seems like a bit of a bean-counter decision to me. Sony lose quite a chunk of money on all PS3's they sell, expecting to recoup the loss and make a subsequent profit on games licensing per copy that they sell you later. If you buy 20 PS3's and build a cluster out of them, you aren't going to buy enough games to cover that in your lifetime, and Sony get hit pretty hard. Very few people/organisations would ever do that, so I doubt Sony would really feel any real effect to their bottom line, but I hear their bottom line is looking pretty atrocious already and I wouldn't put it past an accountant to put their foot down no matter how tiny the proportional saving.
gavomatic57 29th March 2010, 13:57 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by StoneyMahoney
Seems like a bit of a bean-counter decision to me. Sony lose quite a chunk of money on all PS3's they sell, expecting to recoup the loss and make a subsequent profit on games licensing per copy that they sell you later. If you buy 20 PS3's and build a cluster out of them, you aren't going to buy enough games to cover that in your lifetime, and Sony get hit pretty hard. Very few people/organisations would ever do that, so I doubt Sony would really feel any real effect to their bottom line, but I hear their bottom line is looking pretty atrocious already and I wouldn't put it past an accountant to put their foot down no matter how tiny the proportional saving.

But the fat PS3's have already been bought and paid for - they've got their money. There is no other reason for scrapping linux support other than security, as stated in the article.
b5k 29th March 2010, 14:02 Quote
^And with out them elaborating on "security" we can only guess.
gavomatic57 29th March 2010, 14:07 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by b5k
^And with out them elaborating on "security" we can only guess.

At a guess I'd say it was those people trying to hack the hypervisor to get access to RSX...
ssj12 29th March 2010, 14:37 Quote
anyone notice date of release and firmware numbering?
StoneyMahoney 29th March 2010, 14:38 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by gavomatic57
But the fat PS3's have already been bought and paid for - they've got their money. There is no other reason for scrapping linux support other than security, as stated in the article.

True, the fat PS3's have already been paid for, but Sony makes a loss on every PS3 unit sold which it "converts" to a profit through software sales. Clustered PS3 = no software sales = unconvertable loss for Sony, albeit a fairly minor one overall given the small proportion of PS3s purchased for use in clusters.

While the original intention of the move was most likely to further Sony's attempts to remain in control of every aspect of the PS3, it's probably useless to point out that they're locking the barn after the horse has bolted, and the only real effect will now be to alienate some other users and possibly lead some academics to break their clusters if they update without knowing what'll happen.

Did I mention I'm posting this in bed while recovering from a migraine? That might explain why I'm not making too much sense right now. I'm trying to make a point, I think, but the little b*st*rd just won't stay still.
StoneyMahoney 29th March 2010, 14:40 Quote
Oh yeah, that was the thing I was gonna say. Sony makes a loss on every PS3 sold for use in a cluster, so no more Linux = no more unconvertable losses. The economic decision trumps the scientific goodwill in the Sony boardroom, yet another "good" reason to ditch linux support.
Narishma 29th March 2010, 14:53 Quote
This won't be an issue for all those PS3 farm used by scientists and the like. Those are never updated anyway and this will only be a problem for PS3s used for both games and other stuff.
TomH 29th March 2010, 15:27 Quote
Sounds like someone got close enough to unlocking the GPU to me. ;)
CharlO 29th March 2010, 16:27 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by StoneyMahoney
True, the fat PS3's have already been paid for, but Sony makes a loss on every PS3 unit sold which it "converts" to a profit through software sales. Clustered PS3 = no software sales = unconvertable loss for Sony, albeit a fairly minor one overall given the small proportion of PS3s purchased for use in clusters.

While the original intention of the move was most likely to further Sony's attempts to remain in control of every aspect of the PS3, it's probably useless to point out that they're locking the barn after the horse has bolted, and the only real effect will now be to alienate some other users and possibly lead some academics to break their clusters if they update without knowing what'll happen.

Did I mention I'm posting this in bed while recovering from a migraine? That might explain why I'm not making too much sense right now. I'm trying to make a point, I think, but the little b*st*rd just won't stay still.

Man, that was they bussiness idea, they sold the hardware in loss focusing in a POSSIBLE future profit. If they didn't get it they cannot go to your home and take your PS3 back by saying, sory, it was too cheap (GTFO) and steal stuff you paid for. Nevertheless I don't do consoles and think it is an actual April Foos prank.
mclean007 29th March 2010, 17:01 Quote
Have to wonder why they allowed installation of another OS in the first instance. Surely it was clearly going to entice some people to buy the (subsidised) hardware with no intention of ever purchasing the software whose sales support the subsidisation of hardware???
crazyceo 29th March 2010, 17:07 Quote
Thanks guys and gals.

I had no idea what the fuss was about but now I do.
Fordy 29th March 2010, 17:09 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by licenced
Didn't the US military or some such outfit buy a load of PS3 to set up a Linux farm?

It wouldnt update unless Private Ryan decided to pop in the latest CoD game for a bit of last minute practice before his next tour.

Even if it did, I'm sure Sony would give them some custom fw, or they'd do their own.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssj12
anyone notice date of release and firmware numbering?

Glad I wasn't the only one. Hefty coincidence? :?
Zayfod 29th March 2010, 18:25 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by mclean007
Have to wonder why they allowed installation of another OS in the first instance. Surely it was clearly going to entice some people to buy the (subsidised) hardware with no intention of ever purchasing the software whose sales support the subsidisation of hardware???

As far as I remember it was to make it count as a PC, so it could be put in a cheaper import tax bracket. So money reasons for giving it the ability, money reasons for taking it away.
ZERO <ibis> 29th March 2010, 19:47 Quote
Will they add this to the feature list on the box:
Play hundreds of games: x
Multiplayer Support:X
Incompatible with linux: X
Sorundsound: X
HDMI: X
WIFI: X
HDD: X
crazyceo 29th March 2010, 20:08 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fordy
Quote:
Originally Posted by licenced
Didn't the US military or some such outfit buy a load of PS3 to set up a Linux farm?

It wouldnt update unless Private Ryan decided to pop in the latest CoD game for a bit of last minute practice before his next tour.

Even if it did, I'm sure Sony would give them some custom fw, or they'd do their own.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssj12
anyone notice date of release and firmware numbering?

Glad I wasn't the only one. Hefty coincidence? :?

Actually it was Saddam who tried to pick up a load of Playstations a few years ago but was banned from doing so as they could have made a really crappy toaster or something.
Warrior24_7 29th March 2010, 22:31 Quote
Good. Linux sucks anyway, nobody hardly uses it on the system and the system will be more secure.
theflatworm 29th March 2010, 22:49 Quote
I'm wondering if anyone who bought it at least partially for its compatibility with Linux could sue. Afterall, Sony are deliberately sabotaging a product, reducing it's capabilities post-sale. There's got to be something in the Sale of Goods act about that...
theflatworm 29th March 2010, 22:51 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrior24_7
Good. Linux sucks anyway, nobody hardly uses it on the system and the system will be more secure.

I really wouldn't say stuff like that on internet forums, Mr Warrior. You're risking geek-rage, and the effects of geek-rage in cyberspace are several million orders of magnitude larger than in RL.
kenco_uk 29th March 2010, 23:56 Quote
3.15 up to 3.21? Bit of a jump?!
Gh0stDrag0n 30th March 2010, 00:29 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by theflatworm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrior24_7
Good. Linux sucks anyway, nobody hardly uses it on the system and the system will be more secure.

I really wouldn't say stuff like that on internet forums, Mr Warrior. You're risking geek-rage, and the effects of geek-rage in cyberspace are several million orders of magnitude larger than in RL.

"Geek-rage" ?
What are the geeks going to do? Push Caps Lock and "yell" at Mr Warrior?
B3CK 30th March 2010, 02:47 Quote
I would still go with the April 1st joke. It isn't uncommon to announce a joke to provoke publicity ahead of time. WoW did it with their Panda Express order system in-game a couple years back. As to the groups of peeps using the systems in a farm, well, I doubt seriously that they would be affected as who drops the cash for 100+ systems, and then allows people to put games in them?
speedfreek 30th March 2010, 05:51 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by gavomatic57
At a guess I'd say it was those people trying to hack the hypervisor to get access to RSX...
Trying?

Its been hacked, not completely blown open but hacked. Sony thought that by locking the system down they could prevent piracy, no 3d hardware support, no games. With full system resources Linux would probably run quite well, Sony just came along and killed the party right as it was getting interesting. I'll be keeping my linux support and if I cant run store bought copies of new releases on my PS3 I bet the pirated versions will run fine.

Linux runs fine on the PS3 hardware as is and Ubuntu runs great on mine, everyone who complains about poor performance needs to finish setting it up. Linux is all about being able to tailor it to fit your situation. The PS3 number cruncher clusters are an excellent example of this, if only they could use the RSX processor too.
Anfield 30th March 2010, 13:20 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by speedfreek

Linux is all about being able to tailor it to fit your situation.

Non Linux works out of the box.

Anyway, I see two options:

1: They tried to take a page out of the Book of failed MSI Jokes
2: Its some new anti piracy measure that hurts honest people more than pirates.
sandys 30th March 2010, 14:12 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by speedfreek
Linux runs fine on the PS3 hardware as is and Ubuntu runs great on mine, everyone who complains about poor performance needs to finish setting it up.

Indeed though its no speed demon, its comparable to the my Netbook particularly when you use the GPU RAM as swap.

Shame they are getting rid of it, I think its a bit out of order really, its a feature I use and like, though admittedly I've not used it since I got my netbook.
Niode 30th March 2010, 18:18 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by b5k
Quote:
Originally Posted by licenced
Didn't the US military or some such outfit buy a load of PS3 to set up a Linux farm?
Some scientists are finding that a rack of PS3's is more cost efficient than a rack of servers. It seems that there are a lot of things science is scavenging from gaming.

Example, the hardware inside the Wii mote would cost many hundreds of dollars if scientists were to buy it the normal way. Instead for like £40 they get an IR camera that can monitor 3 points at once, a 6 axis motion controller and various other widgets, rather than £500 or smth.

Pretty cool....Except maybe this Linux off PS3 thing will cause problems with the Ps3 server farm thing...

No the hardware in the Wii remote costs peanuts. http://www.coolcomponents.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=95 20.99 for 1 you can get them much much cheaper than that if you buy them in bulk, or in SMD form rather than breakout. Or you could buy a Nunchuck for <£15 and hack it out of it. It's the same ADXL330 chip (the one I linked is a 335 but it's the same chip functionality wise). I use them in my Arduinomes for tilt control. If you want IR these are dead cheap as well, you can find them on the same site for about a tenner I think.

I am completely disappointed in Sony for doing this. I use my PS3 with the Zero Game Project (a little script that takes a default YDL installation, trims the fat, and turns it into a Maximus Arcade style front end for Wahcade and various other PS3 optimised emulators) very often. So now I'm faced with keep linux and lose access to all my PSN games and access to BD films and Games released that require 3.21 firmware or lose linux, and show that Sony can remove features willy nilly without consequence, it's going to be a matter of time that they remove PS2 backwards compatibility from my (very expensive) launch 60GB PS3 for 'security reasons' we need to band together as consumers and show that Sony can't get away with this kind of behaviour otherwise other vendors are going to follow suit and shaft the consumer.
theflatworm 30th March 2010, 18:22 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gh0stDrag0n
Quote:
Originally Posted by theflatworm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrior24_7
Good. Linux sucks anyway, nobody hardly uses it on the system and the system will be more secure.

I really wouldn't say stuff like that on internet forums, Mr Warrior. You're risking geek-rage, and the effects of geek-rage in cyberspace are several million orders of magnitude larger than in RL.

"Geek-rage" ?
What are the geeks going to do? Push Caps Lock and "yell" at Mr Warrior?

You're asking what a linux user with mad 'l33t sklz' might possibly do to another person ('s computer) over the internet? I think someone is lacking somewhat in imagination. I epic failed to do anything at all with linux when I tried it, and I couldn't hack my way out of an open-source calculator, but I'm sure I don't fit the average bit-tech profile in that regard.
Gh0stDrag0n 30th March 2010, 21:19 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by theflatworm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gh0stDrag0n
Quote:
Originally Posted by theflatworm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrior24_7
Good. Linux sucks anyway, nobody hardly uses it on the system and the system will be more secure.

I really wouldn't say stuff like that on internet forums, Mr Warrior. You're risking geek-rage, and the effects of geek-rage in cyberspace are several million orders of magnitude larger than in RL.

"Geek-rage" ?
What are the geeks going to do? Push Caps Lock and "yell" at Mr Warrior?

You're asking what a linux user with mad 'l33t sklz' might possibly do to another person ('s computer) over the internet? I think someone is lacking somewhat in imagination. I epic failed to do anything at all with linux when I tried it, and I couldn't hack my way out of an open-source calculator, but I'm sure I don't fit the average bit-tech profile in that regard.

They would have to quit fapping to anime first. There are too many other things to hack than someone's pc that dissed the all powerful Liunx. Right now at least 90% of the 'l33t sklz' hackers are drooling over the iPad and how they might be able to turn it into something useful. The other 10% are "watching" anime ;)
impar 31st March 2010, 11:23 Quote
Greetings!
Quote:
Hacker Throws Down Linux Gauntlet as Sony Readies Firmware Patch v3.21

As reported yesterday, Sony's next PlayStation 3 firmware update (v3.21) is scheduled for release on April 1. This update removes Linux support, partly in response to security concerns that arose with the revelation that iPhone hacker George Hotz (aka, "GeoHot" - see topstory image), had recently cracked the PS3.

Figures... Cracker screwing all PS3 Linux users.
theflatworm 1st April 2010, 12:53 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by impar
Greetings!
Quote:
Hacker Throws Down Linux Gauntlet as Sony Readies Firmware Patch v3.21

As reported yesterday, Sony's next PlayStation 3 firmware update (v3.21) is scheduled for release on April 1. This update removes Linux support, partly in response to security concerns that arose with the revelation that iPhone hacker George Hotz (aka, "GeoHot" - see topstory image), had recently cracked the PS3.

Figures... Cracker screwing all PS3 Linux users.

I'd say it's more Sony that's screwing them. Hacker's are like rats: you leave something tempting out there for too long, you can bet they'll come and get it. Surely Sony knew this, and surely they don't think locking down the PS3 / stable door post-horse bolting is going to do much...
impar 1st April 2010, 13:01 Quote
Greetings!
Quote:
Originally Posted by theflatworm
I'd say it's more Sony that's screwing them. Hacker's are like rats: you leave something tempting out there for too long, you can bet they'll come and get it. Surely Sony knew this, and surely they don't think locking down the PS3 / stable door post-horse bolting is going to do much...
Sony had already taken steps to close the breach, PS3 Slim.
theflatworm 2nd April 2010, 11:53 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by impar
Greetings!
Quote:
Originally Posted by theflatworm
I'd say it's more Sony that's screwing them. Hacker's are like rats: you leave something tempting out there for too long, you can bet they'll come and get it. Surely Sony knew this, and surely they don't think locking down the PS3 / stable door post-horse bolting is going to do much...
Sony had already taken steps to close the breach, PS3 Slim.

That doesn't really close the breach, though. Regardless of the PS3 Slim, or the BIOS update, some people still have PS3s that are hackable. That some are now 'unhackable' is pretty much irrelevent, IMO.

Now, I'm not in favour of illegal hacking, especially when it's just for the purposes of theft, but you really can't suggest that Sony are blameless, or that what they're doing isn't legally dodgy in itself. They are rendering the product unfit for one of its originally intended purposes, which is a controvention of the Sale of Goods Act.
impar 5th April 2010, 12:57 Quote
Greetings!
Quote:
Originally Posted by theflatworm
They are rendering the product unfit for one of its originally intended purposes, which is a controvention of the Sale of Goods Act.
Sue them, then.
See if the EULA holds.
Post back your findings. :)
theflatworm 7th April 2010, 01:11 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by impar
Greetings!
Quote:
Originally Posted by theflatworm
They are rendering the product unfit for one of its originally intended purposes, which is a controvention of the Sale of Goods Act.
Sue them, then.
See if the EULA holds.
Post back your findings. :)

I can't: I don't own a PS3 or use Linux :-p.
Shagbag 7th April 2010, 09:45 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by impar
Greetings!

Sue them, then.
See if the EULA holds.
Post back your findings. :)

flatworm's point is a good one. The provisions of the Sale of Goods Act form implied terms in every consumer contract and these terms cannot be varied by agreement, so the EULA point is specious.

That said, the Courts are highly unlikely to award specific performance in such a case and damages are more likely. As to the amount of those damages, it would be tempting to arrive at the refund of the original purchase cost, however, this is a 'tortious'-type of damages assessment and you could (and should) argue for 'contractual'-type damages: you bought your PS3 because of its ability to run linux (of which Sony explicitly acknowledged) and Sony has removed that ability without your consent, so you should be 'made whole' for this loss. I would think the cost of buying an unpatched/linux-capable PS3 would be a better assessment of the damages amount.

Two PS3s for the price of one? Perhaps. It is unlikely Sony will want the original (patched) machine back (what are they doing to do with it?) so, it is conceivable that you could end up with two PS3s from such a result.

P.S. I hope the above highlights the importance of knowing your Statutory Rights. It is lamentable that all too often people feel themselves bound by what a piece of paper says (be it a EULA, or a sign in a shop saying 'No customer refunds'). Knowing your Statutory Rights is fundamental to making sure you don't get shafted at the checkout.
impar 7th April 2010, 10:38 Quote
Greetings!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shagbag
... you bought your PS3 because of its ability to run linux (of which Sony explicitly acknowledged) and Sony has removed that ability without your consent, so you should be 'made whole' for this loss.
Then, couldnt Sony just ask for some proof that you in fact ran Linux in your PS3?
Shagbag 7th April 2010, 13:17 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by impar
Greetings!

Then, couldnt Sony just ask for some proof that you in fact ran Linux in your PS3?
No. Whether you have done that in the past or not, is irrelevant. There was no such term, express or implied, in your original contract of sale (unless you were foolish enough to explicitly agree to such a term in the first place). It is only up to you to prove that you can no longer run Linux on your PS3 should you choose to do so.

I feel that I should also point out at this point, the rule privity of contract. It is highly likely that the contact of sale was between you and the vendor only (shop or e-tailer). Sony was not a party to that contract and, as such, you cannot take them to Court. You must take the shop/e-tailer to Court. They sold you the goods as specified and, in doing so, made themselves liable as such (and don't take any crap from them about "it's what Sony claimed the PS could do, not me"). Should your claim be successful then it is up to the shop/e-tailer to claim against Sony under a separate action, as Sony sold them the goods. Too many times people fall for the "you'll have to take it up with them" excuse which has no validity at law. A contract is a contract and legally binding on the parties privy to that contract. This applies to all your purchases be they clothing, food, washing machine repairs, etc. and not just electronic goods.
impar 9th April 2010, 13:26 Quote
Greetings!

I really dont like the way BitTech breaks the discussion on something over a lot of threads:
http://forums.bit-tech.net/showthread.php?t=186006
Amazon gives PS3 refunds for Linux removal
Log in

You are not logged in, please login with your forum account below. If you don't already have an account please register to start contributing.



Discuss in the forums