So, they didn't learn after all.

Three installs of Mass Effect pisses me right off. I installed it on my laptop, my desktop, and then reformatted my desktop and installed it again. Now I have to ring up EA, to get another activation, if I want to install it again? It's ridiculous....when will content providers put customers in front of their own selfishness?

"I think it would be a shame if people decided to not play a great game simply because it came with DRM, but I understand that this is a very personal decision for many of you and I respect that. As you might imagine, I’m a lot less respectful of those people who take the position that they will illegally download a game simply because it has DRM,"

Couldn't be more true, seriously...
The only thing DRM does is make you a little bit more concious about carefully installing/uninstalling your software (and thats a VERY good thing, for overall system health and computer awareness).
I for one have never had problems with Spore/Mass Effect/Bioshock/Windows XP activations. And why the hell do you think calling for an activation is hard work ? >_>

The man from EA is totally right, people who actually prefer NOT to buy a game due to DRM are 98% of the time just ppl who want free games and need an excuse for themselves >_>.

Lets see 100,000 people who won't buy the game times 40$ = 4,000,000$ in lost sales. It must be nice to be able to so blithely reject that much money. I frankly think the number is higher, but I picked a lower number to illustrate the point.
I will never buy a Securom game and I invite others to boycott them until EA (and other fools that use it) until they clue in.
The clowns at EA should take a trip to Stardock and learn how to treat their customers.

Yours in Anti-Corporate Plasma,
Star*Dagger

meh, still not going to stop me buy my favourate gaming series of all times.

Originally Posted by biebiep
The man from EA is totally right, people who actually prefer NOT to buy a game due to DRM are 98% of the time just ppl who want free games and need an excuse for themselves >_>.

I don't think thats the true at all, I generally format my hard drive quite a bit mostly thanks to Creative drivers and SP3 updates which seem to cause me problems.

The idea of someone legally buying a game, then having to limit their installs before calling to activate it is a ridiculous idea, regardless of the ease by which it is accomplished. As mentioned before in other threads its treating genuine buyers as potential pirates and really has no advantages. pirates will torrent the game, install it and bypass activation, people that buy it will have to activate it after x amount of installs, its intrusive and useless.

It may be the case that the game remains the property of the company releasing it, but reminding people of this is just bad business practice, this is why it alienates people, its nothing to do with the random '98%' of people that want free games,

99% of people already know this

so what i just wont uninstall it :), then the only thing that will cause me a problem would be if I managed to get 3 HDD's that break, and what are the chances of that?

Originally Posted by biebiep
And why the hell do you think calling for an activation is hard work ? >_>

Because there's absolutely no reason why I should have to. It's intrusive, unnecessary, and smacks of selfish luddism. I've bought the license to play the game once, so why I do I have to ask permission to play it again?

Limited installations? Product activations? No, thanks. The game is just not good enough for me to buy it with DCP included...

When will they learn that DRM DOES NOTHING to stop piracy. It is a complete waste of money for them, and nothing but an added annoyance and hindrance to those who actually buy the product.

Those in The Scene who want to distribute the product will get their hands on a copy before the release date, it will be leaked to P2P, and those who don't want to pay for it will be able download it with the DRM already cracked.


DRM only affects (and annoys) PAYING customers.

I don't think gamers are against DRM in principal - games have had various forms of copy protection in them for donkey's years. It's the way the protection is implemented that causes the problem.

I personally won't touch any StarForce based products as I've had coutless issues with them in the past. The installation of device drivers to affect the operation of my optical drives is not the best way to impress me. There have been several StarForce protected games that I just couldn't play. The install went fine, but after that I couldn't actually get the game to run.

Compared to that, I think SecurROM is a fairly friendly system!

Those people who say 'well now I'm going to pirate it' would have done it *anyway*. They're just happy as now they can justify their actions and feel better about themselves. I don't buy into this idea that it's driving people to piracy. All it's doing is losing EA business.

EA has lost my money on all 3 of those games they packaged with secuROM (well... maybe not Spore as reviews have been pretty lukewarm) - RA3 is now just the latest addition to that list. I'm not going to pirate it just because EA messed it up - I'll treat it as any other game that was messed up in some way (whether that had been gameplay, graphics etc) and go and find something else to entertain me, it's not like there is a shortage of choice after all...

real shame, will most prob still buy it - but ffs it buggs me beyond belief that the only games i have that give me any form of grief are the legal ones!!!

You all make me laugh....not buying a game because of DRM. EA is FULLY entitled to do what it sees fit to protect itself as the rights holder. I don't for a second believe anyone has a genuine reason to install a game, concurrently, on more than 3 machines. And if your all so disconnected from the world that you won't phone them then you've got bigger problems than SecurROM, or maybe, your mums won't let you use the telephone?

Yes, it doesn't stop people pirating - but they would have anyway...the people who for some reason think they are entitled to something for free.

All you idiots think your waving a huge banner against some kind of injustice and I just don't see it. Its not like you've got 3 installs and that's it, you have to buy it again - and, exactly how many machines can you run a console game on concurrently? Don't hear anyone complaining about that....do you? And no, you don't have any right to put it on more than one machine......all that has changed is that the technologies now exist to enforce what has been in EULAs for a long long long time.

I just hope those of you who refuse to buy a game because of DRM eventually pull your heads out of your own behinds, start thinking about the people your really hurting (those who slave away day after day creating these games) and just pull off your campaign hats. Games are meant to be fun, and RA3 certainly will be, buy it, install it, play it and have fun - safe in the knowledge your supporting an industry that....lets face it, needs all the help it can get.

Originally Posted by Tyrmot
...it's not like there is a shortage of choice after all...

Perhaps EA thinks otherwise. Seems like that's the reason why I've been enjoying classics like Might & Magic 7 instead of Crysis or Bioshock this year :D

> Red Alert 3 is shaping up to be a world-class RTS game that will give you many hours of enjoyment,

Until we get bored of supporting the activation servers at which point it will never, ever give anyone any enjoyment ever again.

Its funny the older i get the easier it is to stick to an arbitrary principal.
I've no intention of playing a game with these types of drm. Note thats playing not buying, i wont pirate it and I wont buy it. There are plenty of games which i'm willing to pay for these are not amongst them so it is a genuinely lost sale unlike the percived piracy threat.

On a similar note i noticed bioshock had the activation requirement removed. Does any one know if you install a new retail copy does it still install SecurROM?

Greetings!

Originally Posted by Star*Dagger
I will never buy a Securom game and I invite others to boycott them until EA (and other fools that use it) until they clue in.

I can buy Securom infected games, but not those with online authentication or limited activations.

The online authentications require servers that I have no way of knowing if will be online in the future.
Limited activations are just intolerable.

Full DRM details:

I know this can be somewhat of a polarizing topic, and I thought it would be best to open the lines of communication with some facts:

- We will authenticate your game online when you install and launch it the first time.

- We will never re-authenticate an installation online after the first launch. In other words, no reaching out to a central server post-install to see if you’re “allowed” to play.

- You will be able to install and play on up to five computers.

- This system means you don't have to play with the disc in your computer. Personally, I think this is a huge improvement over our previous copy protection requirements, which have always required a disk to play.

- Life happens. I know it’s unlikely, but for those unlucky few who install the game and have their machines nuked (virus, OS reinstall, major hardware upgrade, etc.) five times, EA Customer Service will be on hand to supply any additional authorizations that are warranted. This will be done on a case-by-case basis by contacting customer support.

-You can, of course, play offline without impediment or penalty.

Another EA game to avoid.:(

Originally Posted by chrisuk
Rant

Yes, it doesn't stop people pirating - but they would have anyway...the people who for some reason think they are entitled to something for free.

Rant

So what's the point of it then?

This is one thing I don't get: The spokesperson openly acknowledges the fact that people *will* crack it anyway, and it *will* be downloaded illegally regardless.

Given this statement, it seems they are saying that they are including DRM to annoy the people that actually did purchase the game - this annoys me.

Greetings!

Originally Posted by steveo_mcg
On a similar note i noticed bioshock had the activation requirement removed. Does any one know if you install a new retail copy does it still install SecurROM?

Securom is still there.
They only removed the limited activations part. Now its unlimited. While servers last.

"In other words: not good news and this is something that some people will obviously use as a flimsy excuse for piracy"? I guess you didnt read the thread about the guy who only got crysis running because he used a cracked exe, because EA were being assholes about their DRM

Originally Posted by chrisuk
You all make me laugh....not buying a game because of DRM. EA is FULLY entitled to do what it sees fit to protect itself as the rights holder. I don't for a second believe anyone has a genuine reason to install a game, concurrently, on more than 3 machines. And if your all so disconnected from the world that you won't phone them then you've got bigger problems than SecurROM, or maybe, your mums won't let you use the telephone?

Yes, it doesn't stop people pirating - but they would have anyway...the people who for some reason think they are entitled to something for free.

All you idiots think your waving a huge banner against some kind of injustice and I just don't see it. Its not like you've got 3 installs and that's it, you have to buy it again - and, exactly how many machines can you run a console game on concurrently? Don't hear anyone complaining about that....do you? And no, you don't have any right to put it on more than one machine......all that has changed is that the technologies now exist to enforce what has been in EULAs for a long long long time.

I just hope those of you who refuse to buy a game because of DRM eventually pull your heads out of your own behinds, start thinking about the people your really hurting (those who slave away day after day creating these games) and just pull off your campaign hats. Games are meant to be fun, and RA3 certainly will be, buy it, install it, play it and have fun - safe in the knowledge your supporting an industry that....lets face it, needs all the help it can get.

You say it yourself though - it won't stop piracy, (if you look at spore is was available 5 days before release with the DRM removed/cracked) so what exactly is the point of limiting installs?

edit: someone beat me to asking the question I shouldn't skim read :X

The DRM in its self isn't the problem here... When you buy a game you should be able to reinstall it as many times as you want. If you have to verify the game once in a while through internet, fine...

Its really strange how people react when it comes to computer related issues. If we replace "computer game" with "car" and "DRM" with "car alarm" the the scenario changes.

Ex: If you buy a brand new car its comes with an alarm, which is great so none steals it! But there is one little hitch, you can only get in and out of your car 4 times a day, after that you have to call the manufacturer. If your just using the car to and home from work its fine but what if you use the car IN work and have to get in and out 10 times per day?

Im aware that there are differences and I'm only using that example to show the principal. If you buy a game (which you absolutely should) you should be able to reinstall it as many times as you want, end of story. While their still on it why not lease the game to customers instead of selling it? Seems like that fits their model better.

I posted this on the EA Forum:

Dear EA

As one of your valued customers who have supported you over the years I would strongly disagree with the choice to support DRM protection on Red Alert 3.

I do not want the to be dictated or forced into this situation or you will loose a customer in this regard. I have more than 30 EA PC games and have never pirated any EA PC games in my whole life, and quite frankly if I see DRM software on a game again I will just not purchase it at all.

The last game that I purchased with DRM was Bioshock last year October and I had so many issues with getting it to work that I still have not played it even though I paid for it.

I live in South Africa and did not have the luxury to call your oversees support line.

I will now state reasons supporting my dislike of DRM software:

1) It installs a rootkit software that could be exploited by EA or SecurRom or any other individual to gain access, or steal personal information.
2) Reinstalling he game becomes a hassle because of the 3 limit install, I for instance reloaded my PC 4 times over the last two weeks. Reasons: New motherboard and 2x raid failure. So if I installed RA3 over this period it would be voided and I have to buy a new game?
3) You are creating a complicated system to punish the honest buyers, the bloody hackers will crack it anyway the week after it launches, get in touch with reality!
4) You are asking me to basically rent the software instead of giving me ownership.
5) Why do this with successful franchises? You have already seen the good sales on these games, so there is no threat of failing. The cheap assed individual who steals will always steal and by forcing DRM you are not going to create a new sale! BE REALISTIC!

Understand this, if DRM (SecurRom) is included you WILL loose this customer, who have been a proud a owner of every single C&C franchise game through the years.

I have hosted and organized tournaments for C&C games, and have supported the franchise vigorously over the years.

Quite frankly the demise of PC gaming will be this DRM infection and not piracy!

Regards

Nico (Nictron) Fourie

I can't say I've had any problems with DRM on any of the games mentioned but I still detest it.
I hated having to ring MS every time I reinstalled XP, I'm gonna hate it even more when I have to call some overseas support line just to play a game!

The one question I have is this:-

What benefit do EA get from adding this DRM to their game??

Originally Posted by quack
DRM only affects (and annoys) PAYING customers.

Bingo!

Speaking as someone who has cracked SecuROM (for educational research), it's really not that difficult to do and the reward is that of convenience. Just patching and then playing is far better than the DRM hoops EA make you jump through.

Until EA learn this, the ongoing cat and mouse game will continue which inevitably always hurts their paying customers.

Originally Posted by airchie
What benefit do EA get from adding this DRM to their game??

From what I can tell they don't get any benefit at all. It's kinda like those anti-piracy things they put on DVDs and make you sit thru without being able to skip or fast forward before you get to the main DVD menu. All things like this do is inconvenience and/or annoy the people who've actually gone out and bought a legitimate copy of a game or movie. It's ironic that, in certain cases, it's less hassle to download a cracked version of a game and use that rather than try and make a legitimate copy, with it's oh so important DRM, work.

I've never had a problem with DRM, I have 1 gaming pc and 3 installs on that is fine.

Originally Posted by airchie
What benefit do EA get from adding this DRM to their game??

none but they have to try and stop piracy, maybe this method isnt particularly effective but they have to try. Hopefully some time soon, someone will come up with a better way of doing things.

i was going to buy this.... now i am not, securom screwed me before, it wont screw me again.

The benefit of DRM for them is not giving people with cracks a chance to play the game online on official servers.

*******s....only word for it

Originally Posted by biebiep
The benefit of DRM for them is not giving people with cracks a chance to play the game online on official servers.

you dont need draconian DRM to do this at all...

> If you have to verify the game once in a while through internet, fine...

Fine now.

Fine next week.

Fine for quite a while, in fact.

But how long are you content to rent your temporary licence to play this thing?

> And why the hell do you think calling for an activation is hard work ? >_>

You've never tried calling Sony's software department to get an activation code for Sound Forge, have you? It was originally released by Sonic Foundry, who were then bought up by Sony; calling the latter party results in a "Huh, what? Oh, we don't support that anymore", as if I'm going to just roll over and buy a new version. So far, yelling at them a lot has worked out. I'm not sure how long that status quo will last.

Originally Posted by biebiep
"I think it would be a shame if people decided to not play a great game simply because it came with DRM, but I understand that this is a very personal decision for many of you and I respect that. As you might imagine, I’m a lot less respectful of those people who take the position that they will illegally download a game simply because it has DRM,"

Couldn't be more true, seriously...
The only thing DRM does is make you a little bit more concious about carefully installing/uninstalling your software (and thats a VERY good thing, for overall system health and computer awareness).
I for one have never had problems with Spore/Mass Effect/Bioshock/Windows XP activations. And why the hell do you think calling for an activation is hard work ? >_>

The man from EA is totally right, people who actually prefer NOT to buy a game due to DRM are 98% of the time just ppl who want free games and need an excuse for themselves >_>.

hmmm don't agree with this one bit. I have several machines with different operating systems at different locations, do I have to buy a game per-machine? everyone has internet connection or can get to internet connection at some point. Why can't registration and activation of the game be performed online at installation be enough? It's my EA account (with password) it's my activation code that came with the game and if they are that worried about it they can send me an automated new activation code to my email address linked to the EA account?!?!?! I mean why should I waste my time on the phone?

By the way Spore is awesome, worth every penny, but has anyone else found it wont auto-run on Vista 64? in fact you can't even explorer the disc it just comes up with "would you like me to format your blank disc"

I had to use InfraCD to browse the CD and select the autorun.exe?!?!!?

Originally Posted by DXR_13KE
i was going to buy this.... now i am not, securom screwed me before, it wont screw me again.

once bitten, twice shy...

can see this happening alot, people just won't and shouldn't have to put up with this cr@p

meh, the only good thing in this news thread is the pretty lady.

peace

Originally Posted by mrb_no1
meh, the only good thing in this news thread is the pretty lady.

peace

Mmmm Gina Carano. I love her. *drool*

Steam works

oh hey, look, another DRM'ed game I won't buy! ..... yay :(

Your right, if there going to have it on steam. Because of this DRM I never got Bioshock but after seeing it on steam i was going to get it but my PC got to be Upgraded bad from a P4 an AGP 7800GS HELP !!!

same here i did not get bioshock (did not even bother to download the DRM cracked installer free ver )

i never buy games that will not start if demon tools or other disk loading tools are on the pc (Securom is anoying on that one if the option has been turnd on as not all Securom protected games are the same some Securom games are just there to make sure the disk is in the drive, but as long as i can NoCd the game like c&c 3 T wars i buy them)

Greetings!

What about Crysis Warhead?
Any news regarding the DRM?

Well I have been very excited over Read Alert 3 for some time now and with about a month or two till release I have been getting more and more on the edge of my seat. Well unfortunately it looks like I will not be buying Read Alert 3... why you may ask. For the same reason I do not have bio shock or mass effect, SecuROM. I have a lot of other programs on my pc and I am not having some bs tell me what I can and can not run on my dame computer. On top of that I am not bending over backwords for some half ass anti pirate tech that does not even stop them! Hell I would pay $100 for a dam pirated copy just so I could play the thing without any problems. Aslo limiting my installs is totall bs. I have a lot of computers for when I do different **** and I also formatt and move **** all the time this is BS and they have ruined all my excitement for this game

I might just be strange but I really don't like cheap tarts in party outfits.

I've not played any of the games with draconian-mode securom to date (though bioshock is as much down to knowing my graphics card isn't up to it now as anything else since they eased off) and certainly won't be rushing out to spend £30 on this one with more of the same.

Wow, they actually made a command and conquer game I won't even consider buying. I love the series and I own all of them besides Kane's Wrath, Renegade and the expansion to Generals. I'm really sad that I'm not going to get to play this, but I'm not going to support the use of SecuROM. If they want to treat people like they expect everyone to be a pirate, they can go ahead as long as it doesn't get in my way I'll deal with it. Sadly, SecuROM does and therefore I'm not going be bothered to purchase this game.

Copy protection is fine. I respect that. DRM however is a completele different beast and has to be tackled in a different manner. It installs system drivers on your machine. Sine when does a game need system drivers installed to run? I don't want no friggin system drivers installed on my computer without my consent. It's my computer. The day EA buys me the computer for playing their game I will agree with all the DRM they can cook up. I'm not spending time and money getting a decent gaming computer only for some rotten game developer/publisher to mess it up again.

You can't fight disrespect for property with disrespect for property! That's called a war. And is EA in war with us?

We'll still get 1$ copies in china :D

The only winner in all of this is Sony, everytime EA continue to use their product. Kaa-ching!

Originally Posted by ParaHelix.org
I might just be strange but I really don't like cheap tarts in party outfits.

Are you seriously calling Gina Carano a cheap tart? She'd kick your ass in a second!! She is an undefeated MMA fighter you know. ;)

After my encounter with Spore, I've come to the conclusion that I simply don't give a **** anymore.

If it fails to work THEN I might give a ****, but until then? Not gonna happen.

Especially considering I haven't needed to put the CD in for Spore, aside from to install it.

the girl in the pic....she looks very skanky

Originally Posted by impar
Greetings!

What about Crysis Warhead?
Any news regarding the DRM?

yeah, what about crysis warhead? i'm concerned as well, any news?

The way EA is going about this I would not be surprised if Warhead came with DRM too :(

well, original Crysis had activation DRM, so this one probably also has it.

Greetings!

Originally Posted by wuyanxu
well, original Crysis had activation DRM, so this one probably also has it.

Crysis has activations? :|

I just accomplished to install and play Crysis in Vista with the router turned off.
My Vista never had Crysis installed before and without internet connection how did Crysis activated itself?

Greetings!

Or, were you refering to the Crysis bought via EA Store/EA Download Manager?
Because that sure is a mess:
http://www.crymod.com/thread.php?threadid=34805

Spore: Most Pirated Game Ever Thanks to DRM

Spore was without doubt the most anticipated game of the year. The game itself has blown away the people who have played it, but the DRM encouraged thousands to get their copy illegally. Already Spore has been downloaded more than 500,000 times on BitTorrent, and this number is increasing rapidly.

http://torrentfreak.com/spore-most-pirated-game-ever-thanks-to-drm-080913/

drm is pointless, it just annoys people who buy the product legally and the ones who download it never even see it as its been cut out / cracked, its like the anti piracy advertising on dvd's, pirates download movies with the anti piracy adverts allready cut out while the honest people have to watch that crap.