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PC game sales constitute 14 percent of total sales

PC game sales constitute 14 percent of total sales

Is PC gaming going the way of ye olde point and click? Sales figures suggest so...

Shacknews has reported some rather disturbing news as of late - that of all the games sales from last year, only 14 percent of them came from PC games. The rest can all be chalked up to console sales.

What makes that even more depressing is that last year was one of the best years in recent memory for PC gamers and some of our Top 10 Games of 2007 were PC exclusives, with the vast majority being multi-platform too.

Last year the games industry made a jaw-dropping $18.85 billion according to Shacknews, but only $910.7 million of that came from PC sales - which is pretty shocking when we saw games like World in Conflict, Unreal Tournament 3 and Crysis pushing to the fore, as well as a new Half-Life Episode.

Unfortunately, some games like UT3 and Crysis didn't sell anywhere near as well as expected and the PC market is being questioned as a viable option for developers because of rampant piracy.

The good news is that the figures quoted by Shacknews don't take digital sales into account, something which is becoming more and more popular thanks to options like Direct2Drive and Steam.

Is PC gaming going the way of the dodo, or are we just sensationalist hacks? Let us know what you think in the forums.

73 Comments

Discuss in the forums Reply
phat-ant 30th January 2008, 09:43 Quote
I don't think its dead, it will always be where the cutting edge is. Dont forget that console games also cost more meaning they will rake it in more from them. I certainly hope that they still continue to make PC games and exclusives.
naokaji 30th January 2008, 09:54 Quote
i dont think pc games will die due to consoles, but what will kill pc gaming though is the problem with 1:1 ports, forever running franchises, not much innovation if it comes to gameplay and lack of quality control which makes 100+MB launchday patches necessary.
BioSniper 30th January 2008, 09:59 Quote
I think that half the problem is that a lot of PC games exclusively target the high end (Crysis) and people don't want to spend that kind of money (£500+) on a PC when they can get the same quality of experience from a console that costs around £250.
Some games will still be better on PC but consumers will vote with their wallet.

I can count on one hand the amount of games that I bought for PC in the last year where as for console its up in the high teens just due to it being a no fuss, cheap way of gaming.
Also with large screen high def TV's getting cheaper and better all the time, where is the advantage to playing on a smaller high-res monitor? Other than the resolution the experience is somewhat less cinematic than a TV, and it's not as much fun to huddle round a computer with your mates where as slinging in GoW or similar to your 360 and playing it in 42inch glory from the sofa is way more enjoyable than squinting at a game of Counterstrike or Crysis.

Also I cant imagine that games like World of Warcraft are helping PC sales much, when you think that about 8mil people sub to it and probably play but don't buy anything else because their game budget is spent on the sub, they are also not likely to upgrade components either all the time their old stuff runs it well too.
I'm not solely blaming WoW here (though I will try my hardest) but MMO's in general could be something that is killing the PC market.

We then also have that "something-for-nothing" culture on PC. With the accessibility of P2P to even the most casual of users and the mentality of wanting everything for free because you are able to do so with movies and music, people want the same with games too and there will be a loss in sales (however marginal) because of that.
Which option would you take? £45 for a game or 10 mins hunting and a couple of hours download and to have it for free?

Still, that's just my take on it :)
Carbon_Arc 30th January 2008, 10:00 Quote
Thats not that bad surely?? It's about quality not quantity!! I wonder what percentage of the sales total attributed to consoles was spent on generic churned-out moive tie-in rubbish. Plus PC games are generally cheaper than console games, and i wonder how much the buy then trade-in cycle for console games influences the figure, i sure went though a lot more games in my PS2 days than i do now i am gaming on a PC.
kenco_uk 30th January 2008, 10:04 Quote
Well, crikey, only $910.7 million. Best they get busking, eh?
Cthippo 30th January 2008, 10:14 Quote
I'm betting the majority of that is due to digital downloads and the WOW effect BioSniper mentioned. It also seems like games are getting more expensive for the number of hours of entertainment you get, which tends to encourage piracy.
steveo_mcg 30th January 2008, 10:19 Quote
Can't blame WOW with out blaming CS:S or vanilla CS (or TF2) for that matter. Or in my case Pirates! and Supreme Commander i find that older games of these genres keep me engrossed much more than than all the FPS's in the world when i start playing these i loose weekends. Do the consoles have games to keep one occupied for months at a time, thats not flame bait but a genuine question, I tend not to follow consoles very closely.
Hamish 30th January 2008, 10:19 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by BioSniper
I think that half the problem is that a lot of PC games exclusively target the high end (Crysis)
disagree, my x2 4400 and x1900xt handled everything but crysis and even crysis could be played at medium settings
that is far from high end nowadays
very few games target exclusively the high end for exactly the reasons you stated, hardly anyone would buy it
and some of the best games last year run just fine on mid-low hardware, TF2/hl2 anyone?

as for the playing with your mates on the sofa stuff people always bring up in console vs PC, i dont think its comparable
to me its like the difference between having a kick around in the park with a few mates and playing football with a local club or something
one is just having a laugh and the other is competitive, while i dont do the clan thing in games anymore its still similar
'Serious Fun' vs 'Silly Fun' :p
Veles 30th January 2008, 10:28 Quote
Think about it though, how many supported platforms are there right now

PC
PS2 (Huge)
PS3
PSP
Wii (Huge)
DS (Massively Huge)
Xbox 360

7 platforms, if each one is equal and has an equal share of sales, then each has 14%. As said, that still doesn't count things like steam, I imagine steam got a load of sales when the orange box came out.

While it's not great for PC gaming, it's still not too bad, especially when you think that the gaming market is growing more and more. Using my guestimation, PC sales haven't really dwindled, it's just console sales have increased a lot. Of course I have no evidence at all to support this claim and I'm pulling this right out of my ass.

The thing I chalk it down to really is the perceived expense. A good quality gaming PC is horribly expensive, so many gamers are put off by that, and buy a console instead. Even though in the long term they're just as expensive.

I wish developers would stop going on about piracy already. Yeah there are those *******s who pirate instead of buying the game even if they like it, but they're the same people who would be putting a mod chip in their 360 so they can play downloaded ISOs offline. It's very unlikely that someone would have bought the game in the first place if they pirated it. For instance, I pirated Rome Total War, I loved it, so I bought it. I bought B&W 2 without downloading it first because I was in halls at the time, and it was a complete waste of money, if I had pirated it, I would have deleted it off my hard drive after not too long.

With consoles you also suffer from second hand sales, you don't get that so much with PC games because not many shops buy them off you (at least, not in the UK). Shops like GAME buy games off you then sell them, the developer sees no money from that, it doesn't see money from eBay sales either.
steveo_mcg 30th January 2008, 10:32 Quote
xBox (360) also...
crozon 30th January 2008, 10:42 Quote
14% of the retail market is good. And i'll tell you why, they don't count mmo revenue or digital distribution. Now a lot of people are buying games online. I bought the orange box online and looking at the forums a lot of people did as well. Plus again this is only US figures, Please can ya give us worldwide figures as PC gaming is massive in europe and korea. I mean you can buy PC games in supermarkets here in the UK. When i was in the states it was a nightmare to find PC games in shops.

Also EA said they were happy with sales of Crysis, could it be that it sold really well in europe and they got a fair few sales off their distribution system???
crozon 30th January 2008, 10:44 Quote
and from gamespot:

"The PC games sales landscape is changing to one that is increasingly reliant on digital sources of revenue," NPD analyst Anita Frazier told GameSpot. "Our sales reflect the retail climate but there is a lot of gaming sales activity that is generated from digital downloads and subscriptions. I think the PC market continues to be quite healthy and we're continuing to work on how to get our arms around the spending that occurs outside of retail. A number of our [surveys] ask respondents to indicate which platforms they game on, and the results of those questions make it very clear that the PC remains very prevalent, if not dominant, in the total gaming picture."
Veles 30th January 2008, 10:46 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveo_mcg
xBox (360) also...

Ah yeah I forgot to write that one down
BigD79 30th January 2008, 10:55 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Veles
7 platforms, if each one is equal and has an equal share of sales, then each has 14%.

The thing I chalk it down to really is the perceived expense. A good quality gaming PC is horribly expensive, so many gamers are put off by that, and buy a console instead.

QFT

Die Konsole... ist das Opium des Volkes.
Laitainion 30th January 2008, 11:26 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigD79

Die Konsole... ist das Opium des Volkes.

:-D

Although looks wrong mainly because, as I'm learning German, I haven't come across that many nouns that are neuter that I end up using.
DXR_13KE 30th January 2008, 11:30 Quote
Quote:
figures quoted by Shacknews don't take digital sales into account,
[sarcasm]this study is very well made [/sarcasm]
crozon 30th January 2008, 11:44 Quote
here are the sweedish charts for the 46th week

01Assassins Creed (360) 02Super Mario Galaxy (Wii) 03Assassins Creed (PS3) 04Crysis (PC) 05Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare (PC) 06Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare (360) 07Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare (PS3) 08Singstar Svenska hits Schlager (PS2) 09World of Warcraft (PC) 10Ratchet & Clank Tools of Destruction (PS3) 11The Sims 2 Tonårsprylar (PC) 12High School Musical: Sing It! (PS2) 13World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade (PC) 14Counter-Strike 1: Anthology (PC) 15Hellgate: London (PC) 16The Sims 2 Jorden Runt (PC) 17The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass (DS) 18Football Manager 2008 (PC) 19En riktig jul - Julkalendern 2007 (PC) 20FIFA 08 (PS2)

http://www.dataspelsbranschen.se/listing.aspx?y=2007&w=46

crysis is number 3 in the amazon.de charts, and there are 4 pc games in top 10, 1 ps3 no 360 games and the rest belongs to nintendo :)
impar 30th January 2008, 12:44 Quote
Greetings!

The 14% (plus legitimate digital distribution) is representative of the number of PC gaming supporters. The number of PC gaming freeloaders is a lot higher.

Freloaders are slowly eroding PC gaming. And they always have some sort of excuse.
fargo 30th January 2008, 13:33 Quote
this is false and misleading information I would think that bit-tech could see through this like window pane
and not put it out there.
E.E.L. Ambiense 30th January 2008, 14:22 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbon_Arc
...It's about quality not quantity!!...

QFT!

I hate seeing stuff like this. PC gaming will never die. It's where new ideas come to fruition. It's where invention becomes innovation. PC titles FTW!
Nictron 30th January 2008, 14:29 Quote
I myself have bought over a 150 PC games in the last 14 years.

Do you know how may console games I have bought?

Only 3!
Cadillac Ferd 30th January 2008, 14:34 Quote
Oh PC gaming will never die, it's just far easier to go out buy a console and a game, hook the console to your TV, put your game in the drive and play. Setting up a gaming rig is tough, most people wouldn't know where to begin and they take the easier route to enjoying their spare time.
DXR_13KE 30th January 2008, 14:40 Quote
impar

14% + digital distribution = 16% or more, that for 1/6 (Veles post) (i am not considering the PS2) of the game market if all gaming systems have the same share, is quite good.... i am not considering that the DS and wii have a hugely insane amount of market share......
chrisb2e9 30th January 2008, 14:56 Quote
I know a lot more people who own a console than a pc. but they are all different consoles like everyone else has pointed out. i think that the pc game sales are on track with what is expected.
It would help if games were a little less demanding on systems. (crysis) and maybe there was more time spent on developing gameplay and a bit less on graphics. I still love to play some of my older games because they are fun. I was playing gothic 1 the other day and i liked it as much as gothic 2 and 3. although the controls really sucked in that game.
frontline 30th January 2008, 15:10 Quote
i bought bioshock, crysis, cod 4, ET quakewars all on digital distribution, plus got the 'black box' free with an Ati card via Steam, so none of these purchases will have been taken into account in the figures.
chicorasia 30th January 2008, 15:36 Quote
One thing is certain: PC games could do with a bit of innovation...

Too many FPSs and RTSs (I'm getting kinda tired of playing Wolfenstein 3D and Dune II over and over again.....) Even though HL2 and the episodes are marvellous games, World in Conflict is amazing, and I can't wait to get my hands on Call of Duty 4 (after I finish GoW - which is very, very good IMO), it just feels like developers are stuck to established genres and conventions.

Back in the 1990s, we used to have more variety in gameplay... Before the "3D arms race"...
impar 30th January 2008, 15:54 Quote
Greetings!
Quote:
Originally Posted by DXR_13KE
14% + digital distribution = 16% or more, that for 1/6 (Veles post) (i am not considering the PS2) of the game market if all gaming systems have the same share, is quite good.... i am not considering that the DS and wii have a hugely insane amount of market share......
Thats a misleading reasoning.
The game sales results being discussed here are from 2007 in America, in 2007 this was the user base for consoles in America:
Quote:
As you can see the user base between the different consoles is not 1:1, there were three times as much X360 as there were PS3, for instance.
The user base for PC is even larger than all the consoles put together, unless all the mid to high end graphic cards sold are just for show.

PC gaming is still highly popular but, unfortunately, so is FWAE (freeloading with an excuse).
steveo_mcg 30th January 2008, 16:02 Quote
Interesting to see the sales figures of >£120 gfx cards going back a generation or two, that would give a fair idea of the size of the PC gaming market.
Hamish 30th January 2008, 16:28 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by impar

The user base for PC is even larger than all the consoles put together, unless all the mid to high end graphic cards sold are just for show.
figures?

the numbers you linked there show over 87m consoles, are there really that many gaming PCs?
you cant really class any PC owner as a potential PC game buyer as a lot of them will not be used for gaming
cjmUK 30th January 2008, 16:44 Quote
It's funny....

I don't know anyone with a console who doesn't also game on the PC to some extent. Apart from 2 360 owners, the others are all older consoles (XBox/PS2). Most of them play a smaller selection of older games because the console AAA titles are so expensive.

Some also buy copies from the small-ads in the local papers - you know the type - overseas counterfeit goods with a blurry cover and a photocopied manual. But none of my PC gaming friends have any copied games from the last few years.

Admittedly, the majority of the PC gamers are playing newer games at reduced settings due to the hardware requirements.

Custom PC did a good Console vs PC article this month. While not perfect, it basically told us what we know - PC gaming is a little more expensive (didnt cover HDTV purchases), but is a lot 'better'. That is, the console plus half a dozen AAA games costs only a little less than a decent (C2D/8800GT) PC and the same games, while the experience was significantly inferior.

There are nothing wrong with consoles as such, but in order to make the experience match that of a PC, you are going to have to evolve the console so that it is almost a PC anyway.

The other missing factor is how many FREE mods each group plays. Rather than being a drain or distraction for developers, a moddable game rgnine provides the guarantee that your game will sell. People will always buy PC games and the developers will continue to develop them.
cyrilthefish 30th January 2008, 16:52 Quote
The sheer fact they left out online sales is huge.
I spent quite a lot on PC gaming last year, but NONE of it was retail, all games i brought were on steam or similar, plus a fair chunk of cash on a wow subscription...
Kamakazie! 30th January 2008, 17:04 Quote
Oh dear, even PC sites are spreading this rubbish now.
I expect better from the likes of Bit-Tech. Most of what i want to say has already been said.... this is the US only and NPD don't track Steam or Subscription sales.

PC gaming in the US makes up a much smaller percentage than it does in Europe and has done so for ages. Nothing to see here or worry about other than the piracy. Which is prevalent on all systems.
legoman666 30th January 2008, 17:35 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by impar
Greetings!

The 14% (plus legitimate digital distribution) is representative of the number of PC gaming supporters. The number of PC gaming freeloaders is a lot higher.

Freloaders are slowly eroding PC gaming. And they always have some sort of excuse.

do you have sources, or are you just talking out of your ass?
Tyinsar 30th January 2008, 17:58 Quote
Someone better tell ATI & Nvidia to stop making new cards!!!1!!1

On the serious side though: Every time I look at a new game I tell myself I have one yet to finish (Guild Wars: Prophecies=100%, Factions=50%, Nightfall=1 mission left, EotN=50% and there's lots left even after those are done, and that's only one character). Yes I spend less on games but more on hardware. Like many have said: older games still offer a lot of value.

Maybe PCs have better games with more depth or more replay value. Maybe PC gamers just have a longer attention span than console gamers.
Brett89 30th January 2008, 18:21 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by DXR_13KE
[sarcasm]this study is very well made [/sarcasm]

Quoted for truth. The last few times i've bought games, it has all been done with Steam. HL2 EP2, GTA 1-SA(5),and Bioshock.
impar 30th January 2008, 18:22 Quote
Greetings!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamish
figures?
Some observations...
First, above numbers for consoles are for North America, numbers for graphic cards sales are reported as worldwide;
Second, I havent seen any numbers for graphic cards sales for the end of 2007, shouldnt take longer to have then published;
Third, not all graphic cards should be considered as gaming capable;
Fourth, above numbers for consoles are absolute, a graphic card sold may be for an all new PC gaming system or to replace an aging one;
Fifth, one can replace an old 7900 for a 8800 and sell/give the 7900 to other person, making the 7900 equipped system count as gaming capable.

All that said:
According to a new report released by Jon Peddie Research, nearly 83.5 million PC graphics devices shipped during the fourth quarter of 2006, ...
Now, that was 2006 and only a quarter worldwide sales, decide how many of those are gaming capable and how many were sold in America.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjmUK
Admittedly, the majority of the PC gamers are playing newer games at reduced settings due to the hardware requirements.
Actually, if you check the original article and divide the amount generated PC games income by the number of PC games sold, you get an average PC game price of only $25. That to me indicates that PC gaming supporters are not all buying the hardware demanding new AAA titles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamish
the numbers you linked there show over 87m consoles, ...
With almost half being the aging PS2.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjmUK
Custom PC did a good Console vs PC article this month. While not perfect, it basically told us what we know - PC gaming is a little more expensive (didnt cover HDTV purchases), ...
Shouldnt HDTVs be included?
Also, doing the same math for consoles you get an average console game price of $43 and one still needs a PC in this day and age. Might as well get one with gaming capabilities.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamakazie!
Nothing to see here or worry about other than the piracy. Which is prevalent on all systems.
Piracy exists in every system, but is widely more popular in the PC.
Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman666
do you have sources...
Choose a AAA game and check torrent sites. Some do show the number of downloads.
Not all P2Ped game is a lost sale? Ok. But from 10 P2Ped games, how many would have been bought? 3? 5? 8?
Vash-HT 30th January 2008, 18:35 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicorasia
One thing is certain: PC games could do with a bit of innovation...

Too many FPSs and RTSs (I'm getting kinda tired of playing Wolfenstein 3D and Dune II over and over again.....) Even though HL2 and the episodes are marvellous games, World in Conflict is amazing, and I can't wait to get my hands on Call of Duty 4 (after I finish GoW - which is very, very good IMO), it just feels like developers are stuck to established genres and conventions.

Back in the 1990s, we used to have more variety in gameplay... Before the "3D arms race"...

I can't agree with what you're saying, innovation is the wrong word you should have said PC games need more variety. Newer RTS's especially show a huge amount of innovation, but a lot of genres have become practically extinct (turn based strategy or adventure).
Tyinsar 30th January 2008, 18:39 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vash-HT
... but a lot of genres have become practically extinct (turn based strategy or adventure).
My two favourites :( The closest to adventure now is RPGs but even those are nowhere near as common as FPS & RTS (two I don't care for at all). Still, Id rather have one or two good RPGs than a shload of poor ones.
fathazza 30th January 2008, 19:10 Quote
i concur, bring back the turn based strategy game!!!

+ if the pc market is worth almost a billion dollars it doesnt seem like dying to me....
impar 30th January 2008, 19:29 Quote
Greetings!
Quote:
Originally Posted by fathazza
i concur, bring back the turn based strategy game!
After Panzer General II was there any other TBS worth playing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by fathazza
if the pc market is worth almost a billion dollars it doesnt seem like dying to me....
Depends on how many PC games those $900M need to get shared.

An interesting article about game costs. Some quotes:
Quote:
Now, a game sells for $50 when new, and the publisher doesn't get all that. Hard figures on wholesale costs were hard to find, but we're told $35 is a good guess.

At $35 per copy, a publisher would have to sell just under 600,000 copies of a game to cover development costs. Add a $500,000 engine license plus another $4,000,000 in shaping the engine to suit your needs, and that figure jumps to about 700,000 copies. Then there's the marketing budget - $1,000,000. Add another $3,000,000 in ancillary costs (executives, support staff, smaller licenses, PR budget), and here is your grand total estimate:

$29,040,000

Divide that by $35, and you get almost 830,000 copies sold to break even.
Quote:
So you get your $30,000,000 from a publisher. They're sold on your idea, they're sold on your team being able to create the game engine, they believe in you. That $30,000,000 is the advance. You have a primo team so you get a very high royalty rate – 25%. Low-end teams can see as little as 7-10%.

Here's your income formula:

(Gross – License) x Royalty – Advance => Net.

Gross income on a 3,000,000 seller = $105,000,000. Let's say you don't have a License, you're not relying on a movie, book, or sport, or a licensed engine. You multiply the remainder by your Royalty rate, or 0.25, and you get $26,250,000. Then you subtract your Advance, or $30,000,000, and ... you've lost $3,750,000. That's right, red ink baby.
naokaji 30th January 2008, 19:30 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by fathazza
i concur, bring back the turn based strategy game!!!

seconded
cjmUK 30th January 2008, 23:13 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vash-HT
I can't agree with what you're saying, innovation is the wrong word you should have said PC games need more variety. Newer RTS's especially show a huge amount of innovation, but a lot of genres have become practically extinct (turn based strategy or adventure).
Quote:
Originally Posted by fathazza
i concur, bring back the turn based strategy game!!!

+ if the pc market is worth almost a billion dollars it doesnt seem like dying to me....
Quote:
Originally Posted by naokaji
seconded

Check out Matrix Games
DXR_13KE 30th January 2008, 23:58 Quote
my philosophy is: "innovate or die....." i don't see valve in a tight squeeze......
Quote:
Choose a AAA game and check torrent sites. Some do show the number of downloads.
Not all P2Ped game is a lost sale? Ok. But from 10 P2Ped games, how many would have been bought? 3? 5? 8?

i will respond with another question: what is better?

A) have 100 customers go into the shop, buy the game, go home, play it, realize it is has a big flaw that you cant live with it, 90 people return it, put it into the corner of shame (like i did with games i did not "try out" and did try use the demo to see the quality and the store showed me the middle finger) or sell it second hand and never buy a game from the company in question and then put bad reviews everywhere out of rage (i wish i could pirate that darn tv card before i got it....... 125€ down the drain and i will never touch anything pinnacle again).

B) have 100 people download the game and have 10 go buy it and become regular customers while the other may or may not buy the next game the company creates and still have the cash in the pocket to buy another game from the same or other company.


i consider that a gaming graphics card these days is something from 8600gt upwards, i see very few of those 84 million graphic cards sold in the christmas quarter being a gaming class graphic card..... here i see people buying the most insane popular craptacular setups (i remember one having a nice C2D 2 gigs of ram, vista basic, 500Gb hard drive and a 6200 and it was quite popular).....
Quote:
Originally Posted by impar
As you can see the user base between the different consoles is not 1:1.

hurray for captain obvious..... i was only implying that a 14% share of this huge market is a very nice share for pc gaming... and considering that they were "serious" enough with this study that they left out one of the market segments that has been growing like a mushroom.......

i agree that FWAE is helping the demise of the gaming industry, but there are bigger players here...... but FWAE is easier to blame right?
the only kind of pirate i hate is the one that sells the games he pirates..... that is sick.

edit: about the costs of the production of games and the low or negative income i only have the next to say: "streamline and evolve"
fathazza 31st January 2008, 00:04 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by impar
Greetings!After Panzer General II was there any other TBS worth playing?Depends on how many PC games those $900M need to get shared.

An interesting article about game costs. Some quotes:

that just points to a flawed business model tbh....
Bladestorm 31st January 2008, 01:19 Quote
I have to pimp Armageddon Empires now after the last few posts :) cool turn based strategy game from an independent developer : http://www.crypticcomet.com/ ;)

Funnily enough, only available via a digital download ;)
Da Dego 31st January 2008, 01:54 Quote
I honestly see a lot wrong with this study, but it's already been covered. However, I need to strongly repeat to anyone who conducts such studies:
It is ASININE to do a study on game sales on the PC and yet ignore its PRIMARY method of content delivery.

Do we determine the current users of Windows based on how many people buy upgrade discs? NO! Why? Because people don't buy upgrade discs. They go online and click 'Windows Update.' It's the PC's biggest strength - content delivery is automatic. How many web-based games did people play, subsidised by advertising? Did we measure the sudokus, bejeweleds, etc.? Of course not...those somehow don't count, despite being both revenue producing and PC games. Do we count Steam? No, of course not. How about indie games that may not be released in retail form? Nope. Indie games at all? Maybe...but I'd bet not (would need to read more on the study itself).

I find it positively laughable that the industry can pretend to track the impact of piracy (all digitally delivered) on sales so well, but can't bother to determine the legal digital sales. I think it's very telling where their minds are.

And as to innovation, I second whoever corrected that to variety. Crysis is a HUGE FPS innovation - graphics and physics are primary to this sort of game, therefore it's innovative. Destructible environments mean more realism, which is what the genre needs.

However, that doesn't help the other genres, which ARE genuinely choking under the FPS weight. People want an excuse to see what that new hardware unleashed - they're not going to pay for crappy graphics. I'm not an FPS gamer, and I still can't blame them. Therefore, for genres that don't use graphics as a strong point, the work needs to be that much more focused on innovative and varied gameplay.

I think too many design houses are giving up too easily, saying "if we just make an FPS, the graphics are a large part API - meaning easier development." Their thought needed can cut down. Which is why it's that much more a slap in the face when an FPS development house like Valve can wipe the floor with pretty much any game out there for story and gameplay, STILL cramming it into an FPS. It becomes who's lazy and who isn't. It's not a stranglehold of gamers playing only FPS games, it's development houses being able to devote more money (or pocket more money) when making them. It's dollars and cents - licensing something already good is always cheaper than writing a new one yourself - be it engines or even stories.
angusfraser 31st January 2008, 02:48 Quote
Sorry if somebody has already made this point... But do the figures show subscription sales(it didnt take into account digital sales) for PC games such as world of warcraft and eve online? They would have huge sales figures.
Woodstock 31st January 2008, 03:04 Quote
the thing i never understood about piracy who would give away to anyone who wants it, something that they have had to pay for
Cthippo 31st January 2008, 22:44 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodstock
the thing i never understood about piracy who would give away to anyone who wants it, something that they have had to pay for

Admittedly I'm theorizing here, but I think there are several reasons. One might be that a game sucks, and the buyer feels cheated because they can't return it. Fine, let everyone have it then.

Another is that there is probably a certin cachet or honor to being the first to torrent a game.

It also seems likley that it's a display of your geek prowess to overcome the DRM and if you can't share it, who eill ever know what a geek god you are?

Finally, giving away a game online doesn't mean you no longer have it to play. Much like any other digital property, just because you give it to someone else doesn't deprive you of enjoying it. Digital media is infinitly reproducible and so there is no downside except legal to sharing it.
Veles 1st February 2008, 09:26 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by impar
Greetings!After Panzer General II was there any other TBS worth playing?Depends on how many PC games those $900M need to get shared.

An interesting article about game costs. Some quotes:

If that were all true then gaming would be dead. Those kind of costs are for an AAA title, those sell way more than 1 million units usually.
naokaji 1st February 2008, 10:16 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjmUK
Check out Matrix Games

nice shop, thx for the link, bookmarked.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bladestorm
http://www.crypticcomet.com/

theres even a mac version avalaible;) going to d/l the demo and if its good the full version will end up on my ibook.
Lepermessiah 1st February 2008, 14:22 Quote
Terrible journalisim, totally inaccurate, and mis-leading. If you include digital distribution, and the fact that outside the consolized US, Pc games sell much better, PC gaming is doing very well. I am appauled a PC centric site like Bit-Tech is doing the same type of sensationalist reporting other more console centric sites are.
Veles 1st February 2008, 15:24 Quote
TBS and the like haven't died out really, they are still around, it's just they're not as mainstream anymore because they don't really need to be "nextgenified" that much. Mainly because the people who play them aren't idiots and know graphics aren't everything, and also because they don't really need to be photorealistic. Did I like the graphical improvements of M2: TW? Yeah. Did I really notice them when I got lost in the game? No. Some games get a lot from uber graphics, some games don't get much once they reach a certain level.
impar 6th February 2008, 20:10 Quote
Greetings!
Quote:
Originally Posted by DXR_13KE
what is better?

A) have 100 customers go into the shop, buy the game, go home, play it, realize it is has a big flaw that you cant live with it, 90 people return it, put it into the corner of shame (like i did with games i did not "try out" and did try use the demo to see the quality and the store showed me the middle finger) or sell it second hand and never buy a game from the company in question and then put bad reviews everywhere out of rage (i wish i could pirate that darn tv card before i got it....... 125€ down the drain and i will never touch anything pinnacle again).

B) have 100 people download the game and have 10 go buy it and become regular customers while the other may or may not buy the next game the company creates and still have the cash in the pocket to buy another game from the same or other company.
If 10 out of the 100 go and buy a game after having played through it, I applaud their integrity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DXR_13KE
i consider that a gaming graphics card these days is something from 8600gt upwards, i see very few of those 84 million graphic cards sold in the christmas quarter being a gaming class graphic card...
Well, nVidia and AMD/ATi should announce 2007 numbers in the coming weeks, sometimes some sites do break the numbers in performance categories. Keep an eye open.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DXR_13KE
... i was only implying that a 14% share of this huge market is a very nice share for pc gaming...
... and I was implying that 14%, considering the user base, is too low a share.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DXR_13KE
the only kind of pirate i hate is the one that sells the games he pirates..... that is sick.
Its subjective. To me, playing through a game with a pirated/P2Ped copy is immoral.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DXR_13KE
about the costs of the production of games and the low or negative income i only have the next to say: "streamline and evolve"
Considering the demands gamers have, especially on graphical side, dont see any streamlining in the future. At least not in AAA titles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fathazza
that just points to a flawed business model tbh....
If in any business you have a part of your potential clients that get the goods without paying for it, the business is flawed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Da Dego
However, I need to strongly repeat to anyone who conducts such studies:
It is ASININE to do a study on game sales on the PC and yet ignore its PRIMARY method of content delivery.
Agree that legitimate digital distribution should be included, however, its not the primary method of content delivery. And if the digital distribution price follows the CoD4 path ($69,95 via Steam), I doubt it will ever be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Da Dego
Did we measure the sudokus, bejeweleds, etc.?
Good point there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Veles
Those kind of costs are for an AAA title, those sell way more than 1 million units usually.
That would be a AAA game in a "conservative or very conservative figures. We generally took the lower end of answers to avoid the risks of exaggeration.".
Crysis (love or hate it, its a AAA) hit only 1 million units.
Lepermessiah 7th February 2008, 12:30 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by impar
Greetings!If 10 out of the 100 go and buy a game after having played through it, I applaud their integrity.Well, nVidia and AMD/ATi should announce 2007 numbers in the coming weeks, sometimes some sites do break the numbers in performance categories. Keep an eye open.... and I was implying that 14%, considering the user base, is too low a share.Its subjective. To me, playing through a game with a pirated/P2Ped copy is immoral.Considering the demands gamers have, especially on graphical side, dont see any streamlining in the future. At least not in AAA titles.If in any business you have a part of your potential clients that get the goods without paying for it, the business is flawed.Agree that legitimate digital distribution should be included, however, its not the primary method of content delivery. And if the digital distribution price follows the CoD4 path ($69,95 via Steam), I doubt it will ever be.Good point there.That would be a AAA game in a "conservative or very conservative figures. We generally took the lower end of answers to avoid the risks of exaggeration.".
Crysis (love or hate it, its a AAA) hit only 1 million units.

COD4 69.99 on steam? What planet? Check your facts bro, digital distribution is not the main, but it is a MAJOR part of Pc sales, and increases significanylt every year. You would be surprised just how large a portion of pc sales are digital.

http://www.steampowered.com/v/index.php?area=game&AppId=7940&cc=CA

COD4 is 49.95 on steam, was never higher then that

Digital distribution is the future, is already a major part of PC sales.

Only 1 million units for crysis? In 2 months, and a game that is aimed at the hardcore segemnt with steep requirements is outstanding, Pc games sell slower, but continue to sell over time, Crysis will continue to sell as more people upgrade. Your argument is flawed. That is 50 million in profit in 2 months for a hardcore Pc title. That is excellent however you slice it.
impar 7th February 2008, 12:56 Quote
Greetings!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lepermessiah
COD4 69.99 on steam? What planet?
Not $69,99, $69,95. On most of western europe:
Dont Buy COD4 From Steam If you Live in Europe

It seems that if you want to buy Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare on Steam and live in the USA it will cost you $49.95, but in Europe that price is $69.95. It’s also worth noting that users from Europe are also charged tax on top of their Steam purchase, bringing the price even higher.

No idea about the added tax but the image I posted above is a screenshot from my own Steam account.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lepermessiah
Only 1 million units for crysis? In 2 months, and a game that is aimed at the hardcore segemnt with steep requirements is outstanding, Pc games sell slower, but continue to sell over time, Crysis will continue to sell as more people upgrade.
One million units sold, over the initial two month sales period, for a full hyped AAA PC game is nothing to be impressed about.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lepermessiah
That is 50 million in profit in 2 months for a hardcore Pc title.
Not profit, revenue. There is a substantial difference between the two.
Lepermessiah 7th February 2008, 13:30 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by impar
Greetings!Not $69,99, $69,95. On most of western europe:
Dont Buy COD4 From Steam If you Live in Europe

It seems that if you want to buy Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare on Steam and live in the USA it will cost you $49.95, but in Europe that price is $69.95. It’s also worth noting that users from Europe are also charged tax on top of their Steam purchase, bringing the price even higher.

No idea about the added tax but the image I posted above is a screenshot from my own Steam account.One million units sold, over the initial two month sales period, for a full hyped AAA PC game is nothing to be impressed about.Not profit, revenue. There is a substantial difference between the two.

Sorry, you can't compre Pc sales to consoles, PC gaming requires Pc know how, and more money, 1 million for a game thatr equires a beast to run is outstanding, i think you don't understand the Pc market at all. It is a Niche market, not main stream liek the consoles. 1 million in 2 months is outstanding for a game that requires the latest tech to run. That number will incresee as more People upgrade. do yuo actually expect a PC only title to sell 4-5 million copies in 1-2 months? Where the hell have you been? Pc sales have always been where they are. Did you actually expect a game that only people with the latest hardware sell any faster? I don't think you understand the market at all. Pc games sell slower, but more steadily as people upgrade, 1 million for crysis in 2 months is better then most even expected with its steep requirements. Many people have PC's, only a smaller portion have PC's capable of gaming with games like crysis.

Boxed games are more expensice in Europe are they not? But anyway, I live in north America, COD4 veiong 69 or 49 is irrelevant, digital distribution is growing at a significant rate and is already a nig part of Pc sales.

I realise there is a diference between profit and revenue, I mis-worded it, lets not get tacky,.
steveo_mcg 7th February 2008, 13:35 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lepermessiah


Boxed games are more expensice in Europe are they not?

COD:4 costs £30 delivered in Britain so really about the same as your $50 when you include tax. So on steam its a complete rip off, tbf steam has been more expensive of late, i ended up buying the orange box from amazon as it was a £ or two cheaper.
Lepermessiah 7th February 2008, 13:40 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveo_mcg
COD:4 costs £30 delivered in Britain so really about the same as your $50 when you include tax. So on steam its a complete rip off, tbf steam has been more expensive of late, i ended up buying the orange box from amazon as it was a £ or two cheaper.


Well, that is too bad for europe, don't understand that, but in North America no such issue.
steveo_mcg 7th February 2008, 13:47 Quote
True it is to bad for Europe, but its not great for you either... From other threads it seams that Europe is a much larger PC games market where North America tends towards consoles. So as a PC gamer if the larger market is getting shafted and is disinclined to buy games then we as a whole suffer.
Lepermessiah 7th February 2008, 13:49 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveo_mcg
True it is to bad for Europe, but its not great for you either... From other threads it seams that Europe is a much larger PC games market where North America tends towards consoles. So as a PC gamer if the larger market is getting shafted and is disinclined to buy games then we as a whole suffer. Do try to think out side of your insular world.


What? why the little attack? what's your problem? Can europe still buy boxed copies? Then what's the issue? Don't use steam then, you can still buy the boxed copy, how is that going to make people not buy them? europe is not a larger market, Pc games just happen to be selling better there then the US right now, but is is far from the larger market, who knows if that trend is short term or not. Not need to get sooky like a child.
steveo_mcg 7th February 2008, 13:59 Quote
I was about to apologies for being a bit harsh, but since your being childish.... Na na na na...
Lepermessiah 7th February 2008, 14:01 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveo_mcg
I was about to apologies for being a bit harsh, but since your being childish.... Na na na na...


Sure you were.
impar 10th March 2008, 21:05 Quote
Greetings!
Quote:
Originally Posted by impar
Well, nVidia and AMD/ATi should announce 2007 numbers in the coming weeks, sometimes some sites do break the numbers in performance categories. Keep an eye open...
Numbers for discrete graphic cards for 2007 are out:
http://www.jonpeddie.com/special/AIBReport.shtml

More than 99M of graphic cards were sold in 2007, with a market value of $M22.497, average selling price of $227.
About 35%-40% of those should be low end, not capable of playing AAA games.
There were already gaming capable cards in the market (7800s, X1800s and superior models).

And all of those gaming capable PC's only managed to move 1M units of Crysis and 1,3M units of CoD4 in 2007.

Then, when searching Mininova for Crysis and CoD4-PC one gets hundreds of thousands of ".torrent" downloads, adding the various "releases" available. From a single tracker.

My conclusion, PC gaming is healthy, PC game market is not.
knuck 10th March 2008, 22:55 Quote
1M and 1.3M are bad numbers ? over a period of a month and a half ? Let me call BS on that
AcidJiles 11th March 2008, 07:41 Quote
im not worried. the cutting edge is here and besides pc gamers speed alot more money to be there than console gamers so it makes sense for large companies to keep it going.
impar 11th March 2008, 09:40 Quote
Greetings!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghys
1M and 1.3M are bad numbers? over a period of a month and a half?
Yep. Lousy numbers when compared to console numbers.
Crysis, being a PC only title, is impossible to compare, but CoD4 sold almost 4M in the X360 and 1,9M in the PS3 during the same period.

Both the 2007 user base of X360s and PS3s -17,4M and 10,7M- pale in comparison to the available gaming PCs, yet managed to move a lot more of CoD4 games.
cjmUK 11th March 2008, 09:55 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by impar
Greetings!Yep. Lousy numbers when compared to console numbers.
Crysis, being a PC only title, is impossible to compare, but CoD4 sold almost 4M in the X360 and 1,9M in the PS3 during the same period.

Both the 2007 user base of X360s and PS3s -17,4M and 10,7M- pale in comparison to the available gaming PCs, yet managed to move a lot more of CoD4 games.

I think it's fair to say that everyone who owns a console is interested in gaming and can play games designed for that console.

It is not the case however that everyone who has a PC capable of playing a modern game like CoD4 is interested in gaming, and nor does everyone who has an interest in playing CoD4 have a capable machine.
impar 12th March 2008, 10:13 Quote
Greetings!
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjmUK
I think it's fair to say that everyone who owns a console is interested in gaming and can play games designed for that console.
Yep, its fair.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjmUK
It is not the case however that everyone who has a PC capable of playing a modern game like CoD4 is interested in gaming, and nor does everyone who has an interest in playing CoD4 have a capable machine.
That wouldnt explain all the PC games freeloading.
cjmUK 12th March 2008, 11:20 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by impar
That wouldnt explain all the PC games freeloading.

What's that go to do with my post?

For the record though, pirating is a big issue for consoles: http://www.torrentz.com/search?q=xbox+360
impar 13th March 2008, 10:31 Quote
Greetings!
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjmUK
What's that go to do with my post?
People are interested in playing PC games, the numbers on P2P freeloading show that. Are not interested in paying for the games, hence the low 14% of total retail sales.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjmUK
For the record though, pirating is a big issue for consoles: http://www.torrentz.com/search?q=xbox+360
Piracy and freeloading exists in every plataform, sooner or later, but is far more prevalent in PC.
Pick a multi-plataform AAA game, CoD4 for example, check ".torrent" downloads of the various "releases" in Mininova for PC and consoles.
Impressive ratio, isnt?
Lepermessiah 13th March 2008, 15:16 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by impar
Greetings!People are interested in playing PC games, the numbers on P2P freeloading show that. Are not interested in paying for the games, hence the low 14% of total retail sales.Piracy and freeloading exists in every plataform, sooner or later, but is far more prevalent in PC.
Pick a multi-plataform AAA game, CoD4 for example, check ".torrent" downloads of the various "releases" in Mininova for PC and consoles.
Impressive ratio, isnt?

14% is incorrect, as those numbers are US only, PC gsming id big in Europe, and they do not include Digital distribution, which is very popular. AND, comparing PC to 7 other platforms makes it look worse then it is, compare PC to each other market individually, all of a sudden it is doing well, PC gaming GREW last year and is going to grow again this year. Crysis, a game thatr eguires the latest tech sold 1.3 million in 2 months, that is bad? Only a few consoles games beat that. PC is never as popular as it requires tech knowledge and more cash, but to suggest that it is in as bad a shape as u are is a fallacy.

Piracy is hurting it, but not near as much as u say, one pirated copy does not equal sale, many studoes have disproved that piracy has a MAJOR effect, it does have an effect, just not as big as the suits say. Make a good game geared towards PC, it will sell, Stalker is at near 2 million now, yeah, a multi-billion industry is dying, lol.
impar 14th March 2008, 15:08 Quote
Greetings!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lepermessiah
... PC gaming GREW last year and is going to grow again this year.
Source?
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