Tories want to tackle violent games

Computer violence doesn't make people violent.

I wish cameron would stop his whining.

can we tie him together back to back with jack thompson and shoot him to the moon?

honestly....

if a kid thinks violence in rl would be good, then the parents belong locked away, not the games.

if a kid has access to guns, then guns belong locked away, not games.

if a kid cant tell the difference between virtual stuff and real stuff, then the parents failed...

Originally Posted by Mankz
Computer violence doesn't make people violent.

That is fairly true, but its the way children are raised also, their back ground etc

Sam

I think I just got dumber!

Ban the teletubbies!

We'll why don't we ban the matrix, an american decided to stick a plug into the back of his head. Stupid governement go home nobody likes you. Like naokaji said its the parents fault if they go cray in most cases. Computer games might just give them ideas but it is'nt the games fault.

This whole violent gaming debate is becoming increasingly one-sided. In fact, has there been an example of mainstream media supporting the gaming industry rather than using it as a scapegoat?

I doubt the rise in gun crime, etc, is linked to the proliferation of gaming, but rather the rising sophistication of criminal organisations supplying drugs, firearms, etc.

But hey, if it's an easy target...

Originally Posted by Mankz.
Computer violence doesn't make people violent.

I wish cameron would stop his whining.

Unfortunately for you, I don't think you can prove that.

Originally Posted by naokaji
can we tie him together back to back with jack thompson and shoot him to the moon?

honestly....

if a kid thinks violence in rl would be good, then the parents belong locked away, not the games.

if a kid has access to guns, then guns belong locked away, not games.

if a kid cant tell the difference between virtual stuff and real stuff, then the parents failed...

spot on, but he is going to hit mid-england with this and that his target audience. parents that are sheep and have to been seen to do something about this apparent problem that does not exist. It's the parents that fail, not the goverment, BBFC, game developers, etc.... If mummy and daddy thinks that there child could be harmed mentally with exposure to this type of material then don't buy them for christmas and birthday presents

Originally Posted by Hugo.B

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mankz.
Computer violence doesn't make people violent.

I wish cameron would stop his whining.

Unfortunately for you, I don't think you can prove that.

Shouldn't the onus be on Cameron to prove so, since what he is suggesting could be regarded as censorship?

worst of all, Cameron is giving etonians a bad name!

Anywho, if parents followed the age-guidelines, people young enough to be influenced by the violence wouldn't be seeing it. But like that'll ever happen.

Daily Mail readers everywhere must be creaming themselves in anticipation.

Originally Posted by K
Daily Mail readers everywhere must be creaming themselves in anticipation.

i'm not going to say anything about them lol... (dont want them to come burn down my house)...

one more thing....

why do they actually always say that games need to be banned? i mean... enforcing an age restriction would be far easier...

I am a Conservative supporter although policies I want to see blur the line between all 3 major parties here in the UK. If Cameron draws up some ridiculous policies just to appeal to the naive (mis)understanding that some parents have then I'll definitely be changing who I vote for (out vote matters here, unlike some other places).

Originally Posted by naokaji
why do they actually always say that games need to be banned? i mean... enforcing an age restriction would be far easier...

You're right, we've already got a top-notch system in place from the BBFC. If only more retailers and parents would enforce it. PR and Marketing people have a lot to answer for too though. I only read adult orientated games mags like EDGE, but a lot of these publishers are advertising 18 rated games in magazines with demographics that have younger folk as the clear majority. But that's a bit of a grey area really.

And he was nearly making him self electable. Plonker

Originally Posted by Mankz.
worst of all, Cameron is giving etonians a bad name!

Anywho, if parents followed the age-guidelines, people young enough to be influenced by the violence wouldn't be seeing it. But like that'll ever happen.

I think other MPs from Eton have been doing that for a long time.

Originally Posted by K
Daily Mail readers everywhere must be creaming themselves in anticipation.

I made a post to the website (I read it for laughs, no serious news) when I saw the article there that violence in video games does not perpetuate violence in real life, but there is no reasoning with middle England. These are the same types of people who think all Arabs are terrorists and routinely use homeopathic medicine.

Originally Posted by Ramble
These are the same types of people who think all Arabs are terrorists and routinely use homeopathic medicine.

noobs.

if he can prove to me that video games are completely linked to the big increase in violence everywhere (and not drugs, poverty, bad role models or/and bad environment) then i am pro-ban, if not he can go F himself with an elaborated "caralhinho" i saw the other day.
And you Brits are stupid if he gets elected...... no offense here ;)

TBH, he's the first electable torie in years and up until now most of what he has said has been at least partially sensible.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRKhTQHrtdk

is this directed to the same guy we are talking about?

Originally Posted by Laitainion
Shouldn't the onus be on Cameron to prove so, since what he is suggesting could be regarded as censorship?

Are my eyes going funny or is what you quoted not on the thread?

Anyway there was no violence before video games. Fact.

edit: whats wrong with the forums this isnt what i tried to quote O_o

Originally Posted by LeMaltor
Are my eyes going funny or is what you quoted not on the thread?

Anyway there was no violence before video games. Fact.

ban the bible ban the bible...

the bible contains violence too....
(and no, the books the other religions believe into are no better, they all contain violence too.)

Why don't they just enforce a system like films? If some loser goes on a rampage and blames it on ultra violent, 18 rated movie, everybody would blame the store for selling it to him or the parents for buying it for him.

Just another kneejerk reaction for MP trying to grab votes form people that don't know better.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dRwOq4yWio&mode=related&search=

the labour party is very funny :D

So all those arcade style fight games i played in the arcades in the late 70's and early 80's had made me a serial lunatic killer...

I played Double dragon coin after coin after coin., where you could beat guys up with baseballbats and could beatup chicks with a whip... Although i liked whipping the chicks in the game. I (now was a adult) dont feel the urge to beat someone up with a basebat or throw some oildrums on someone...

Its the blame the game for violance all over again, instead of blaming their own faulty system.
And he is probably the kid that always watch other kids play in de arcade, but was ashamed to ask his mother for some "arcade investment"

While we are @ it, why dont "they" blame it on all the kids who have witnessed the 1940/45 war in front of their eyes. They must be "extremly violent" after watching all those bombs fall around them and see all those nazi's shooting everyone dead around them. Its even more realistic then every videogame ever made.

But nooooohh videogames are more violent. Because saying stuff about all other bad things is political incorrect and immoral..

[ot] I also hate the way he tries to be seen as green. Stop the 4x4 hunting Dave! [ot]

until they forcibly neuter Parents intent onletting there 14 year old kids wander the streets unobserved they problem will not go away

my taxes go towards paying for these people to sit at home or go to the pub all day and then i get into trouble if i confront one of them

humans are splitting off into two unique species and we are at a turning point there are the intelligent/semi-inteligent 'normal' people and the thick and lazy money grabbers who will happily have another kid because it allows them £40 (random number)a week extra child welfare at what point will we decide that the working (intentionally did not put the word hard) of us shall no longer support the ones who choose not to work (inc. those with false health claims)

what gets me is that the people we pay to support can afford cigarettes surely this is a luxury(even tho i hate them) and should only be afforded by those that work
Violence is an issue of class, education and upbrining not Computer Games (altho without the first three it could add) i have probably played (alot) more computer games than alot of the yobs out there yet im only ever violent at 3pm on a saturday (rugby matches).

i urge Mr Cameron or Mr Brown for that matter to look into and heavily invest into getting people off there arses and stop providing them with a life

anyway rant over

Originally Posted by Teaching kids to kill
When we human beings are overwhelmed with anger and fear our thought processes become very primitive, and we slam head on into that hardwired resistance against killing. During World War II, we discovered that only 15-20 percent of the individual riflemen would fire at an exposed enemy soldier. You can observe this in killing throughout history.

That's the reality of the battlefield. Only a small percentage of soldiers are willing and able to kill. When the military became aware of this, they systematically went about the process of “fixing” this “problem.” And fix it they did. By Vietnam the firing rate rose to over 90 percent.

The training methods the military uses are brutalization, classical conditioning, operant conditioning, and role modelling. Let us explain these and then observe how the media does the same thing to our children, but without the safeguards...

Today the data linking violence in the media to violence in society is superior to that linking cancer and tobacco. The American Psychological Association (APA), the American Medical Association (AMA), the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP), the Surgeon General, and the Attorney General have all made definitive statements about this.

“The data is irrefutable. We have reached the point where we need to treat those who try to deny it, like we would treat Holocaust deniers.”

"...these games teach young people to kill with all the precision of a military training program, but none of the character training that goes along with it.”

Cameron and Thompson are not alone in their thinking.

Of course, parents can give their kids the character training, but against that you've got peer pressure and extremely powerful commercial interests with far more glamour than the parents wanting kids to spend money and telling them what they want to hear, always the most convincing argument.

Originally Posted by naokaji
ban the bible ban the bible...

the bible contains violence too....
(and no, the books the other religions believe into are no better, they all contain violence too.)

id go one step further into banning religion all wars around the world are religious.

religion was a method of controlling the weak minded by the rich in the days before common sense

Originally Posted by yakyb
id go one step further into banning religion all wars around the world are religious.

religion was a method of controlling the weak minded by the rich in the days before common sense

i'd go one step further.....

ban humans, humans have proved over the years that they often resort to unnessecary violence and havent learned form the negative effects wars and violence in general had.

i would personally like to see enforced 2 year conscription for any person between 20 - 25 who has been unemployed (claiming benefits) for more than a year(without a really good excuse).

And common sense arrives here when?

Originally Posted by naokaji
i'd go one step further.....

ban humans, humans have proved over the years that they often resort to unnessecary violence and havent learned form the negative effects wars and violence in general had.

i dont think thats necessarily true i would never resort to violence unless violence was acted upon me i know that it leads to no good but is often only the way to deal with those whom know no better hence why i agree with the war on terror as there is no way (i can see) to reason with them

And common sense arrives here when?

I belive that alot of people do have common sense and choose to question what they are told as fact when they are young.

we were told that Jesus did exist, God Ruled all and the universe was created by him but a lot of people chose to question that and i consider that to be common sense

Originally Posted by yakyb
id go one step further into banning religion all wars around the world are religious.

religion was a method of controlling the weak minded by the rich in the days before common sense

You should not be elected in any country. Your views are a little too extreme.
With the post above, you seem to have some kind of vendetta against people who rely on the government for support. true, there are abusers just like there are rich abusers (Enron?). They should both be punished.
However, what you said was a gross stereotype, I'm sure some people who rely on support are honest hardworking people that perhaps can't work because of a disability, or are in-between jobs? Did you ever stop to think about that.

Secondly, i dislike religion, and I always have but i'd never go as far as to ban religion (which would comprimise human rights). Religion isn't a cause of people being shitty to each other, ignorance is. I know many religious people who are non-violent, and many atheists who are violent. The reverse is also the same.

it appears you consider yourself superior, you are not superior.

EDIT: the above stuff you have posted while I was writing this is just too stupid at the moment for me to respond to in a proper manner.

Actually, research has demonstrated a link between video games with violent themes and "aggressive behaviour" --for a given value of "aggressive behaviour". The problem is that you can only go so far in a laboratory environment --not quite the same as demonstrating that playing Manhunt makes you reach for daddy's gun and go show those punks at school who's theirs. The other problem is that such experiments tend to disregard much more powerful and long-term influences such as culture, upbringing, media exposure, peer pressure etc.

I'll write an article for Bit-Tech about it soon, seeing as it's my field and all.

But it stands to reason. Basically in the '50s people worried about the harmful influence of comic strips, movies and TV. Now it is video games and the internet. The same basic question applies: what do you expose the kids to? That goes way beyond videogames, to encompass much larger sociocultural issues. Frankly it is a bit trite to worry about Manhunt when any kid can see graphic examples of violence in a soccer stadium, or in action movies, or on TV, or at home between mum and dad or on the local streets, or even in the "might makes right" politics of our governments.

Originally Posted by yakyb
i dont think thats necessarily true i would never resort to violence unless violence was acted upon me i know that it leads to no good but is often only the way to deal with those whom know no better hence why i agree with the war on terror as there is no way (i can see) to reason with them

sorry i forgot the sarcasm tags:D
i wasnt really meaning that humans should be banned... i was just trying to get a point across that violence is not caused by games.
comment on war on terror in spoiler tags... who ever gets easily offended dont read:
as for the war on terror.. well... does it really matter who takes my freedom away?
the isp censoring and restricitng what i do on the internet?
the government undermining and removing all data protection and privacy?
the government trying to remove all human rights?
the government giving a **** for the constitution of their own country?

Good old Tories are jumping on the bandwagon aswell I guess the days of innocent TILL proven guilty are truely in the past. Politicians love their scape goats.:(

i purposely choose my words so as not to include any one with out a due reason for claiming benefits but it is all to often you hear of people abusing the system so that they can gain extra money from the government,such as the family who had never done a dys work in their lives who where recently moved into a £500,000 pound house to house their 7 kids.
my GF's mother works with underage pregnancy a she tells of fantastic stories of Kids who obtained excellent GCSE results despite having kids to deal with because of help offered to them
the banning of religion was probably a little strong but a do think a good look into what some religions actually acheive.

oh and please do not call my posts stupid as they merely show my (strong) opinion on this subject which was sparked off by the anger towards the naivety of our government
i truely mean no offense to anyone in what i say

Religion does help to enforce a right-wrong basis in developed countries, but man is evolving to the point where religion is being left behind. 50 years ago tons of people went to church each sunday. Now, some people claim to be "religious" but maybe go to church for christmas eve once a year. Christians, at least, are starting to abandon their faith. Or maybe they just aren't afraid of it anymore.

Originally Posted by K
If only more retailers and parents would enforce it.

Every retailer Ive bought from has enforced it

But my parents believed I'm capable of handling it and bought it for me, I'm not going round hacking people to pieces
Even if i did, its my fault, not anyone else's, i decided to play them, i decided it was acceptable to replicate it, how is it anyone else's fault but mine

While were out banning violent games lets ban violence on TV and movies please oh theater

I remember back when I was a kid there were plenty of arcades and other video game based entertainment centres. Shortly into high school, the government had them closed down.

The end result? Kids in my place today resort to midnight illegal motorbike racing on city streets and vandalizing and terrorizing other races, disturbing the peace in this beautiful country.

Originally Posted by mattthegamer463
Religion does help to enforce a right-wrong basis in developed countries, but man is evolving to the point where religion is being left behind. 50 years ago tons of people went to church each sunday. Now, some people claim to be "religious" but maybe go to church for christmas eve once a year. Christians, at least, are starting to abandon their faith. Or maybe they just aren't afraid of it anymore.

It doesn't necessarily mean that people have stopped believing in the existence of God. A lot pf people probably realize that the Catholic church is just a huge, man-led organization that's rife with corruption and greed. Why confess all of your sins to a man, so then this man can give you permission to be forgiven? Why call this man 'father' when the bible that they are supposed to follow clearly says to call no man thy father (father in a religious meaning, not paternal). They realize how unrealistic it is to strictly follow so many rules and rituals and would rather just formulate their own opinions about right and wrong and live their lives by their own morals.

Speaking of religion...this topic has nothing to do with religion:D

As for the matter at hand...as always common sense will win out and people will come to the same conclusion they always have over violent games. It's the parents responsibility to raise their child and instill morales and teach them the difference between right and wrong. This doesn't mean you can hold the parents 100% responsible for everything their kids do, though. Some people are just crazy. You're born a sociopath, you can't just become one. (here comes Nexxo to correct me!) All the time you hear about killers and rapists where the family and friends say "wow, he was the nicest guy I've ever met. He was so calm and relaxed. He was friendly and personable and I had no idea he was capable of killing 13 babies!"

I might display aggressive behavior when I'm REALLY absorbed into a game. I'll be running around shooting aliens, or driving a race car, or stomping Goombas with reckless abandon. When the game is over, though, it goes away. My brain can differentiate between fantasy and reality, and for those that cannot make this distinction...nothing is gonna help them short of therapy and medication. If a violent or aggressive kid can't get his fix by playing a game, he'll just find something else to do instead.

You think that's bad?

We've got Jack Thompson remember?

Originally Posted by Neogumbercules
Some people are just crazy. You're born a sociopath, you can't just become one. (here comes Nexxo to correct me!)

Yeah, sorry... :D

People can be born with a certain temperament that, in the wrong environmental circumstances or with the wrong developmental experiences, can develop into a sociopathic personality. But nobody is just born a sociopath.

You also have to separate deliberate neglectful/abusive parenting from parents that do their very best in bad circumstances (coping with illness, or extreme poverty and deprivation, or even just not being very intuitively skilled parents). Like sociopathy, bad parenting can hide in small corners. Just like you'd never expect that nice, polite, if somewhat withdrawn guy next door to eat 13 people, there are people you'd never suspect of being dismally poor at parenting. After all, that family looks clean and well-fed and well-mannered enough... Forget stereotypes. It's not that simple.

Nexxo when are you going to make that gaming and psychology article?

Originally Posted by DXR_13KE
Nexxo when are you going to make that gaming and psychology article?

QFT, I'd love to read that.

I've been talking to DaDego about it and working on it, but I've been extremely busy in my job... and there is the Metaversa 02 case which is going through its third CAD re-design --oops, let that slip. Well, you'll just have to wait and see about that one... :D

Currently reviewing the scientific literature (and there's loads) and doing a critical analysis the methodology. This may take a few weeks...

britain's biggest a**hole doesnt only want to ban violent games....

he wants censoring on a big scale throughout all media....

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=41998

He's conservative, what do you expect?

I wonder what the criminal's top ten games are, and how long their hours of gaming are.

That Nintendogs can get you pretty wound up...

This is probably why the tories want to scrap the human rights Act, so they can force through draconian bans on anything Mary Whitehouse would've found offensive.
Cameron, we are told, is in trouble with his own party over his sinking poll numbers, this partly explains things too ,he's playing to the hard authoritarian right.

I liked some of his ideas, but I strongly disagree with him, and being an avid gamer who likes violence, and never gets the urge to deptic the acts played in game, I feel this is out of touch, David Cameron is a communist.