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Manhunt 2 now without platform

Manhunt 2 now without platform

Nintendo and Sony have both said Manhunt 2 will not currently see a release on the Wii or PS2 because of ratings.

So, you may have heard the news about Manhunt 2. Getting a complete ban, subject to appeal, by the BBFC in the UK, followed swiftly by a AO rating from the ESRB in America - which effectively places great restrictions on where the game can retail although the ESRB is a voluntary system. Wow, that's got to suck for Rockstar.

Unfortunately, it gets worse.

Recently contacted by gaming bloggers at Kotaku, both Nintendo of America and Sony Computer Entertainment of America have now confirmed that they will not be allowing titles with an Adults Only rating onto their respective platforms, the Wii and PlayStation 2 and PSP.

With no PC version of the game currently planned, the game is essentially homeless and Rockstar is left with the options of either abandoning the game completely, re-developing it with a less violent theme, or hope to God that an ESRB appeal will lead to a different outcome (not likely).

Nintendo, who in the past has been criticised for not allowing violent or bloody titles like Mortal Kombat onto its older platforms, was the first to take a firm stand on the issue, stating:

"The ESRB provides ratings to help consumers understand the content of a game before they purchase it. As stated on Nintendo.com, Nintendo does not allow any AO-rated content on its systems."

Speaking to Kotaku, Sony issued the following statement a little later on which added an extra twist to the story as Sony has in the past been more lenient with violent games;

"It's SCE's policy not to allow the playback of AO rated content on our systems."

So, it looks like Manhunt 2 is getting left out in the cold again. Would you have bought it or imported it if there was no controversy and how has the banning affected your view of the game and the ratings system? Is this symptomatic of a nanny culture, or is it simply a sensible step in censoring obscene content? So many questions to answer, so get to the forums to let us know what you think.

40 Comments

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BioSniper 21st June 2007, 10:40 Quote
Soo.. It'll get ported to PC then? :p
CardJoe 21st June 2007, 10:42 Quote
Not in the UK, no.
perplekks45 21st June 2007, 10:51 Quote
Interesting moves by Sony and Nintendo. But what better publicity could Rockstar hope for? If they port it to PC now and release it wherever they're allowed to it might sell way better than it would've done without all those bans.
Paradigm Shifter 21st June 2007, 10:52 Quote
Aren't Rockstar based in the UK? If the game is illegal here, will that cause them other problems?

I wouldn't have bought this if it was available, I'm moderately amused by the controversy surrounding gaming (again) at the moment - and Jack Thompson isn't even involved! - but in the end, I won't buy it anyway.
yakyb 21st June 2007, 12:17 Quote
i think they should write a port to pc with no intention to release then have a copy mysteriously leak onto the internet as a big FU to the health and safety activists out there
Buzzons 21st June 2007, 12:24 Quote
What about MS?
Flibblebot 21st June 2007, 12:42 Quote
IMHO, Rockstar should concentrate on writing half-decent games rather than relying on hype and controversy to sell them.
mikeuk2004 21st June 2007, 12:45 Quote
mm Sony and nintendo will not allow Adult only content on their machines. How much porn has been stored on PS3 hard drives or dvd's played onthe Ps2???

I bet alot. so what they are saying they dont want Adult games but porn is ok because they cant stop that.
zr_ox 21st June 2007, 12:51 Quote
To be honest perhaps it's about time that games like this were banned.

I played the first Manhunt for 10 minutes then switched it off. Gaming is supposed to be about entertainment, I cant see how torture, and inflicting as much human misery and suffering can associated with entertainment?

Rockstars GTA series have always been favorites of mine though, I hope that the next installment helps put them back on track.

(I have the original Manhunt for £8 inc p&p...via pm)
will. 21st June 2007, 12:53 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flibblebot
IMHO, Rockstar should concentrate on writing half-decent games rather than relying on hype and controversy to sell them.

Do they not do both?

GTA might have got a bit stale when it got to San Andreas, but it was still as fun as ever to play and was a technical masterpeice on the PS2...

Anyway, they will just remove the stuff that got it banned (and I wouldn't be surprised if it was put there in full knowledge of what was going to happen) and then it will get its lower rating and people will buy it just to see what all the fuss was about.

If they pulled this kind of stunt with GTA I'd be worried that they knew the content sucked and just wanted to make as much money as possible, but manhunt is by no means their flagship game and is probably seen as a quick win. Same as Bully.
will. 21st June 2007, 12:57 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by zr_ox
To be honest perhaps it's about time that games like this were banned.

I played the first Manhunt for 10 minutes then switched it off. Gaming is supposed to be about entertainment, I cant see how torture, and inflicting as much human misery and suffering can associated with entertainment?

Rockstars GTA series have always been favorites of mine though, I hope that the next installment helps put them back on track.

(I have the original Manhunt for £8 inc p&p...via pm)

Do you not play any violent games then? Do you not run around pretending to be a WWII soldier shooting other "human beings" in the chest? The setting in which the game is placed does not remove the fact that your still maiming and brutally killing something.

And don't say they aren't the same thing.. The end result is the same, death.

I personally do think that in its current state it probably should be given a rethink, but at least my reasoning is sound and not a crappy argument like that.

Did you not play San Andreas, a favourite of yours? I seem to remember at some point burying a construction site foreman alive in a portaloo just for looking at my bitch ass sister the wrong way.
Da_Rude_Baboon 21st June 2007, 13:05 Quote
I get very annoyed by SCE and Nintendo's views on 'Adult Only' games. There biggest customers are adults and i would like to be able to choose what i want to play, not get told what i am allowed to play.
perplekks45 21st June 2007, 13:23 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by will.
And don't say they aren't the same thing.. The end result is the
same, death.
So you'd say a soldier is a murderer? Over here you'd be put in jail for that.
I wouldn't say he ain't but in my eyes a soldier killing somebody is pretty different to being rewarded for sneaking at someone, pulling a plastic bag over his head and beat his face as long as he tries to breathe.

To me the first is "just" killing the second is OTT brutal, senseless, no-fun-in-any-way slaughter. It's both wrong, reprehensible and senseless but to me there's still a difference.
Neji 21st June 2007, 13:38 Quote
Soooo, what about the world outside the uk and usa? Are NOA speaking for all of Nintendodom? Does this mean it won't be released anywhere?
zr_ox 21st June 2007, 13:41 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by will.
Do you not play any violent games then? Do you not run around pretending to be a WWII soldier shooting other "human beings" in the chest? The setting in which the game is placed does not remove the fact that your still maiming and brutally killing something.

And don't say they aren't the same thing.. The end result is the same, death.

I personally do think that in its current state it probably should be given a rethink, but at least my reasoning is sound and not a crappy argument like that.

Did you not play San Andreas, a favourite of yours? I seem to remember at some point burying a construction site foreman alive in a portaloo just for looking at my bitch ass sister the wrong way.

I read your reply and all I hear is bla bla bla bla bla.

I'm entitled to my opinion, so get off your high horse. If it were not for the insults I would have been much more interested in your reply. I did not make any argument I simply imparted my opinion.

As for GTA, yes I enjoyed burrying that guy since the tone of the game is humorous and tounge in cheek. I enjoy shooting Germans and freeing the world from Nazi rule almost just as much. The tone of violence in Manhunt just does not interest me, which is why I played it for 10 minutes and have no intention of playing number 2 even if it is released.

I would have been happier to discuss this had your tone been a little better, however honest discussion is obviously lost on you. You would rather try reverting to ridicule in an effort to increase your withering self esteem. Lets just leave it at that and agree that perhaps we have different opinions on whats suitable.
Yemerich 21st June 2007, 13:43 Quote
Perhaps thats good after all! Now they will be forced to release it to PC.

I dont think people will drop the AO rating. And honestly i don't think they should. IT IS a ultra violent and sick game (IMO the most violent I ever saw). But thats ok for me and perhaps for most people who choose rockstar games to play. I don't see any programmers in rockstar (who must be the most sick ppl in the games world) sticking glass shards in other peoples eyes.

When i was younger, I remember when someone tried to sue Ozzy Osbourne for that song "suicide solution" because his son commited suicide. Looks like from times to times they must elege something (or someone) to be the target for blaming about violence. I don't see these people doing something against stupid REAL violence. Do you need some better example Than the Iraq war?

Here in Brazil all the cigarettes boxes comes with photos of dead rats (stating that it is used some poisonous substances on it) or a dying guy with a traqueostomy due to a cancer, a deformed fetus and lots more. Meaning: "smokers are all advised". But the products are still on sale.

They don't need to ban an AO game. Porn is illegal to minors but they are still selling. The probalty of getting a porn movie is far higher than getting a game because there are more adult movies on the shelves than a particular game. Particulary, btw, i would love to see some QUALITY porn (not hentai nor Virtual Valery 2) in AO games too...

Anyway. IMHO I think "the evil is on our own". I've played MH lots of times and i still teach computer classes to poor people without riping their head apart with a piano wire.
Almightyrastus 21st June 2007, 13:49 Quote
At least if the ratings do get overturned on appeal Rockstar has had some awesome free advertising through it all :D

If there is to be a PC release at some point then there is not really much that rules and laws would be able to do about it ending up here in the UK, sure they might be able to officially stop it but PCs don't have the same region controls that consoles do.
Yemerich 21st June 2007, 14:02 Quote
Yeah i know. But i am saying that with a PC version they have a light in the end of the tunnel (that i hope its not a train). They should have a service like Valve's "Steam" to beat all this rating and controversy they are always getting. Looks like they use all the hype in their favour after all...

Anyway, i am anxious to get my hands on a copy of Manhunt 2!
themax 21st June 2007, 14:39 Quote
It's SCE's policy not to allow the playback of AO rated content on our systems.

The Hentai games released on PS2 beg to differ in Japan. If I am wrong someone correct me.


zr_ox that was hardly an insult, but rather, a good challenege to everyone's sudden shock and awe of Manhunt. Apparently it's ok to kill, as long as it's a Nazi soldier, or if you are Kratos ripping of an animorphic being's arm, then slashing them down the middle with the blade still in their hand, or better yet, how about when you rip out the eye of a cyclops and get a "good job you just got an item" message? What about in Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines, when you "stealth" kill in a very similar fashion to manhunt, or bleed someone dry or all their blood.

I understand it's an opinion, but maybe it's not him that needs to get off their high horse. Aside from your percieved ideas of what is ok for killing, violence is violence. And if people think Manhunt is so evil and bad, then I find it hard to believe they think God of War I & II (the first one containing a bit more adult oriented material in another fashion yet receving an M rating) is fine or that Call of Duty 3 is any less graphic what with explosions, people being mowed down by MG Nests, Flak cannons destroying the planes, snipers shooting your comrads. ;)
plug_in_ross 21st June 2007, 15:14 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neji
Soooo, what about the world outside the uk and usa? Are NOA speaking for all of Nintendodom? Does this mean it won't be released anywhere?

Good point, what will happen to this game around the rest of the world?
sam.g.taylor 21st June 2007, 15:21 Quote
I've been more of a conservative player, and IMO Rockstar has produced some of the worst (i.e., violent and pointless) games on the market, many of which, such as Bully (CCE) and the GTA series, have given the rest of gaming a bad name.

Yeah, there is the theory "if people didn't want it, then don't buy it" but the extremely violent games like Manhunt 2 sell beyond any moral aspect because of the controversy that surrounds them and the fact that they cater to the most base human evils. That is why this doesn't exactly compare to COD, because some games stick closer to "these are the bad guys and you are a good guy" in a more traditional sense. (Especially with COD, in real life the Nazis were bad.)

However, as to comments like that of Da_Rude_Baboon, I must agree that if you buy a system capable of playing AO rated material, you should be able to. The bad part is, at least right now, that all console owners are slave to the will of the manufacturer.

I'm not against all AO games or those with violence, but I am against those with gratutious violence and torture acts that the player does. We can still have a lot of fun in games without that.

And by the way, if this is ever released on PC, it will be torrented and warez'd much, MUCH more than sold legally.
CardJoe 21st June 2007, 15:22 Quote
Nintendo and Sony are, as far as I know, speaking on a global scale, yes. I'd be very surprised if they weren't.
wolff000 21st June 2007, 16:39 Quote
Absolutely ridiculous! This is the height of nanny culture. I happen to like ultra violent games. I don't need anyone shielding me from something I want to do. I don't mind a company saying we are not going to carry this game. It's annoying but it is their right. I however can not stand a government saying the game is illegal. Any person living in a country where the government can ban something they simply don't like that harms no one is not free. We should be free to choose what we watch, listen to, and play. It is our choice not theirs. Soon we will have no choice in anything music, movies, games choice of car where we live. We are fast approaching a way of living that will be far less than what we have now.
DougEdey 21st June 2007, 16:43 Quote
This is just one game people, why are you all saying that it's the start of a nanny culture? We've been in a nanny culture ever since the government paid for people not to work.
DXR_13KE 21st June 2007, 16:46 Quote
don't the game makers do a contract with the console makers so that they can put a game on their console? and if they do is sony and nintendo not keeping its part of the bargain, especially at this late stage of development? what sounds strange to me is that it was named "manhunt" and at the time of the contract both nintendo and sony knew how manhunt was.

i played manhunt for some days.... it was interesting, very stress releasing, but it was to stealth for my taste, i used to name bots in UT after people that made me mad at school and it was a great anti stress, i am in no way sick or murderous, real life is far more violent and sick than any game i know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DougEdey
This is just one game people, why are you all saying that it's the start of a nanny culture? We've been in a nanny culture ever since the government paid for people not to work.

it starts with one......
plug_in_ross 21st June 2007, 19:20 Quote
Manhunt is fine art! Or so it seems...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/6225286.stm
Amon 21st June 2007, 19:33 Quote
The whole game content sterility movement shouldn't come as a surprise to us. We've been seeing this trend for years, but they've progressively upped the ante on what criteria describes an adult rating. We're progressing in the wrong direction; this ban is the grease on our wheels into grey gaming.
completemadness 21st June 2007, 21:08 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by themax
It's SCE's policy not to allow the playback of AO rated content on our systems.

The Hentai games released on PS2 beg to differ in Japan. If I am wrong someone correct me.


zr_ox that was hardly an insult, but rather, a good challenege to everyone's sudden shock and awe of Manhunt. Apparently it's ok to kill, as long as it's a Nazi soldier, or if you are Kratos ripping of an animorphic being's arm, then slashing them down the middle with the blade still in their hand, or better yet, how about when you rip out the eye of a cyclops and get a "good job you just got an item" message? What about in Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines, when you "stealth" kill in a very similar fashion to manhunt, or bleed someone dry or all their blood.

I understand it's an opinion, but maybe it's not him that needs to get off their high horse. Aside from your percieved ideas of what is ok for killing, violence is violence. And if people think Manhunt is so evil and bad, then I find it hard to believe they think God of War I & II (the first one containing a bit more adult oriented material in another fashion yet receving an M rating) is fine or that Call of Duty 3 is any less graphic what with explosions, people being mowed down by MG Nests, Flak cannons destroying the planes, snipers shooting your comrads. ;)
exactly, well said

Ratings boards seems to think its OK if your not killing plain old human beings, but what difference does it make, if i disembowl an alien (most of which have very human features anyway, head/body/arms/legs) that's fine, but if i disembowel a human being, even if its in a WW2 game or something, that's OK

Because blood isn't red, but another colour, that's OK ? come on people this is ludicrous

Hell GTA you go round, see someone on the street an beat them down (usually a 'lady of the night' as they carry money), whats the freaking difference, as said, if your a vampire, its suddenly OK to drain Simone dry ?

In so many games i can think of you go round blasting someones head off, hell in doom3 i think you see monsters eating peoples faces off
Amon 21st June 2007, 21:24 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by completemadness
exactly, well said

Ratings boards seems to think its OK if your not killing plain old human beings, but what difference does it make, if i disembowl an alien (most of which have very human features anyway, head/body/arms/legs) that's fine, but if i disembowel a human being, even if its in a WW2 game or something, that's OK

Because blood isn't red, but another colour, that's OK ? come on people this is ludicrous

Hell GTA you go round, see someone on the street an beat them down (usually a 'lady of the night' as they carry money), whats the freaking difference, as said, if your a vampire, its suddenly OK to drain Simone dry ?

In so many games i can think of you go round blasting someones head off, hell in doom3 i think you see monsters eating peoples faces off
Realism. I the difference between conventionally violent games and Manhunt would be realism. The weapons and methods of killing your target in Manhunt 2 are quite readily available, whereas a youth finding an assault rifle (or make-believe energy weapons) to shoot others is far too unreal for it to conceivably happen in a community. Piercing someone's leg blood vessels and running that steak knife up the leg into the kidneys before pulling it out is easier to penetrate their mind than other depictions of killing in any other game.

See this post and this post for a quick, but deeper explanation.
completemadness 21st June 2007, 21:38 Quote
yeah but lets say on GTA you use the katana or something, they are pretty easy to pick up off Ebay

I know a lot of people have replica weapons, hell we have a couple of bayonets in our house
Amon 21st June 2007, 21:49 Quote
I'm not sure if you're making the conjointment of realism here. GTA's katana attacks on civilians aren't very engaging: you are tapping your attack button, and the animation itself isn't encouraging either. Besides, the whole driving aspect and mission-driven story (evading cops?) offset any hint of proverbial violence, causing a major disconnect between GTA and psychological realism--you don't quite hear your victim cry when you saw his limbs off through his tendons. Looking at Manhunt, you'd have to be pretty precise and coordinated when killing someone gruesomely. Big difference in both games' depiction of violence.
themax 21st June 2007, 21:56 Quote
Manhunt isn't precise. You "sneak" behind an opponent, and you hold the attack button for a certain amount of time to attain the desired level of kill. It's not so much torture either as people put it. You aren't chaining someone down and sawing off a limb and asking if they like it. The kill animation do not even last very long, and if you have played the first one, you know that not all the animations are gruesome deaths. There were guns and a tranquilizer gun you could use. To top it off, the first one wasn't just sensless killing. If people actually took the time to read up on it, there was a dark story behind the whole thing, and character's family was involved (held hostage) in order to encourage him to continue on (or else). And the people you kill in aren't exactly innocent people. Most are deranged lunatics that jump at first sight to kill you.
Aankhen 21st June 2007, 22:39 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeuk2004
I bet alot. so what they are saying they dont want Adult games but porn is ok because they cant stop that.
Duh. They need to make sure everything is fine on their end. It's not their responsibility what you do afterwards.
Quote:
Originally Posted by will.
Do you not play any violent games then? Do you not run around pretending to be a WWII soldier shooting other "human beings" in the chest? The setting in which the game is placed does not remove the fact that your still maiming and brutally killing something.
I realize that this wasn't addressed at me, but in the spirit of butting into conversations: I run around watching a bunch of pixels hit these other pixels and so on. In games like UT2004 I turn off the gore completely… I'm not playing it to watch people be mutilated, any more than you'd play paintball to watch people die.
Quote:
Did you not play San Andreas, a favourite of yours?.
I played GTA3 and Vice City for a while. What I enjoyed most was driving around and exploring the city, not beating up hapless innocents. Eventually my mother read about Vice City and had a little chat with me, after which I decided that exploring the city and driving wasn't really worth the rest of the game.
Quote:
Originally Posted by themax
Apparently it's ok to kill, as long as it's a Nazi soldier, or if you are Kratos ripping of an animorphic being's arm, then slashing them down the middle with the blade still in their hand, or better yet, how about when you rip out the eye of a cyclops and get a "good job you just got an item" message? What about in Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines, when you "stealth" kill in a very similar fashion to manhunt, or bleed someone dry or all their blood.
That's exactly why I don't play games like that. :) I just don't enjoy gore or horror; it turns me off.
Quote:
And if people think Manhunt is so evil and bad, then I find it hard to believe they think God of War I & II (the first one containing a bit more adult oriented material in another fashion yet receving an M rating) is fine or that Call of Duty 3 is any less graphic what with explosions, people being mowed down by MG Nests, Flak cannons destroying the planes, snipers shooting your comrads.
Call of Duty 3 struck me as far less graphic than God of War, despite everything you said… maybe the lack of flying limbs and gratuitous spurting blood and so on. Funny how that works. :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by themax
To top it off, the first one wasn't just sensless killing. If people actually took the time to read up on it, there was a dark story behind the whole thing, and character's family was involved (held hostage) in order to encourage him to continue on (or else). And the people you kill in aren't exactly innocent people. Most are deranged lunatics that jump at first sight to kill you.
Oh, good. That makes it so much better. Gratuitous violence is so much more acceptable when it has a story to back it up. :(
themax 21st June 2007, 22:54 Quote
It makes it a whole lot better than what most of you would have readers believe. You would rather people think the game is just "sensless" killing. Torture, sadism (as some media spin it) and what have you. Basically you make it out to be that you are this guy going around killing "innocent" folks because he loves to, and wants your kids to do the same. When that is no where close to the theme of the game or what the main character is doing.

Or better yet, go watch Battle Royal or Suicide Club, and tell me Manhunt deserves all negative perception as sadist and torture.
Aankhen 21st June 2007, 23:03 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by themax
It makes it a whole lot better than what most of you would have readers believe. You would rather people think the game is just "sensless" killing. Torture, sadism (as some media spin it) and what have you. Basically you make it out to be that you are this guy going around killing "innocent" folks because he loves to, and wants your kids to do the same. When that is no where close to the theme of the game or what the main character is doing.
I'm not sure you get it. Justified or not, it's still violence. It's just a carefully written story created solely for the purpose of giving players a misplaced sense of righteousness.
Quote:
Or better yet, go watch Battle Royal or Suicide Club, and tell me Manhunt deserves all negative perception as sadist and torture.
Why should I? Neither movie sounds interesting. More to the point, how does it matter what those movies are like? They won't change the fact that Manhunt is completely baseless violence.
AFX 22nd June 2007, 01:00 Quote
gimme my manhunt!!!!
2JSC 22nd June 2007, 08:16 Quote
I'm sure if RockStar tried a bit hard, they could make some really nice games. They don't have to be about slapping hoes, or carjackings, or murdering some one on a hitlist. They are an excelent company with plenty of praise for gameplay and originalty... but that was years ago. Come up with something new.

I donno about you lot, but I'm pretty tired of hearing about this kind of junk every season.
DXR_13KE 22nd June 2007, 11:47 Quote
unlike Aankhen i want gore, and buckets of it, i want my shotgun to eviscerate my enemy and make his guts fly everywhere, they do it on cinema why not in games? and manhunt has a interesting plot behind it and i loved to make my kill as bloody as possible just because it was possible, if i want a cleaner experience then i am better of banning TV, cinemas, music, games, computers, people...... they all will "influence" me to become a very evil person. either that or play my little pony instead unreal tournament and watch "government propaganda" and "sanitized" soap operas and teletubies.
completemadness 23rd June 2007, 01:37 Quote
i would rather have more realistic games

if i shoot someone, their bloody would spray out the back of them and paint the walls, OK it wouldn't be fun if the died from the first shot, i think CSS somewhat has it right, but instead of just a decal on the wall which bugs if it curves of whatever
It'd be nice to have something realistic, if I'm shooting terrorists, why not have that level of realism
Just because it doesn't have the blood/gore in it, doesn't make the game any better, in fact it just desensitises you to violence more, you should know what the consequences are if you shoot someone
GoodBytes 23rd June 2007, 18:16 Quote
Doesn't a software company knows the criteria for the rating system?! I think so.
Therefore isn't is a publicity stunt? I'm sure they have a copy of the game with an M rating in their office somewhere.
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