Xbox 360 "Zephyr" gets HDMI, 65nm and 120GB HDD

Looking good, although I can see many an annoyed 360 owner if they bring this in at the same price point, or cheaper even.

Xeons GPU

Xenos?
-- Fixed, thanks! - Da Dego

That's assuming it's even real. How do you get your 5.1 sound out of the console when using an HDMI lead? You'll still need your optical cable to do that, and there's no optical out on the console. So you'll have to keep that component/VGA cable around for awhile longer.

MS have flatly denied the HD-DVD being included on many occaisions because it bumps up the price for everyone, even if only a few find it useful. The larger hard drive would likely be released as a seperate item as well, leaving the only real benefit of the v2 console it's 65nm CPU.

I think I'll stick with my v1.

seeing as itd make my "normal" one worthless when its released, id rather get the bigger hdd and just watercool the one i have. quieter dvd drive would be nice tho

HDMI can provide S/PDIF afaik, or, use the VGA lead with optical out.

There's no ruling out that HD-DVD might be included as another option, above the current "premium" console. Yes, they have denied it REPLACING the DVD drive. Since they are releasing a v2 anyway, it makes sense to offer something that competes with Sony directly.

The benefit of a v2 would be HDMI as a single cable option, offering neater use as well as DIGITAL input into your HDTV. Can't beat that quality.

It'll hardly make the v1 worthless since the v2 adds HDMI as well as the standard A/V output.

Good thing I waited on it.

Urgh, just got a 360 for Chirstmas...

I held off and held off in hope of news of the newer version, but with no leaks before Christmas I thought, it wouldn't happen for a long time. Looks like I bought at the wrong time.

Saying that, I wouldn't use HDMI, but I bet the newer version will be a lot quieter and smaller...

Hum, this would be a nice addition, sell my current V1 and buy a V2, good plan i think

Sam

hmmm, looks like there might be a new hybrid cable in the works too (for both the MS connector and the HDMI port), because the current cable covers the area where the HDMI port is located.

/me sighs. I'm another one of those that waited, couldn't see it on the horizon, and bought one around Christmas. This WILL annoy a hell of a lot of 360 owners, myself included. It's half tempting to just take this one back and say that I don't want it any more.
Really though, why in the hell do manufacturers do this? Specifically in the console market. Is it just to screw early adopters?

Wonder if it'll come out before Halo 3...I've been waiting for an excuse to get a 360, and might aswell get HD integrated for poops and giggles.

sounds good to me. but PC is the way to go :P
My HD-DVD drive arrived yesterday and I have it working fine on my pc. but its about time they added in a HDMI port for the xbox as it has been said above it makes things alot neater.

also for those of you wondering what about your sound, well there are whole new ranges of amps out there which can take in the HDMI decode the audio and pass it back out to your tv.

I like the point about Microsoft trying to "keep up with the Jones' [Sony]"...

Personally, I was thinking it was Sony's mistake to wait a year after Microsoft...but it's now looking like Sony did the right thing. They waited until they could produce their console how they wanted to. Microsoft came out early, with features that even Microsoft apparently thinks weren't quite good enough. It's one thing to upgrade a processor for lower heat, etc...Sony will probably do that eventually too. But when you start including extra ports, bigger PROPRIETARY hard drives, etc. on a new version, you start to alienate those who bought their console early.

Another point is the question of the built-in HD-DVD drive...maybe they will make it built in one day, but if they ever make it capable of playing games off HD-DVD's, that is going to piss off tons of people who would then be forced to buy an upgrade just to play new games.

Consoles are supposed to be relatively fixed hardware so you can just buy one and play it for 5 or 6 years.

Originally Posted by BioSniper
Really though, why in the hell do manufacturers do this? Specifically in the console market. Is it just to screw early adopters?

Early adopters? It's been out for well over a year now.

Looks good to me! I've been holding out for one in case of a price drop or upgrade so I'm in business. Nice.

Would you be able to use HDMI with a DVI input? How would you get the sound?

Built in HD DVD, HDMI and a 120GB HD. is this going to boost the price on par with sony?????

Sounds expensive and will deff push the core pack out.

Originally Posted by EQC
but if they ever make it capable of playing games off HD-DVD's, that is going to piss off tons of people who would then be forced to buy an upgrade just to play new games.

It'll never, ever happen. If they integrate it then it'll be for movies only, for those digital purists who want the single cable and no external drive (or will end up using the external drive on their PC anyway).

Or, it might:

We accept that games can out on floppy, then floppies and CD. You could buy either, depending on what your PC had. Then CD and DVD and now virtually DVD only. It doesn't stop developers releasing games on HD-DVD (faster load times) or multiple DVD if they so wish. I can't see this happening though as Microsoft makes money out of media not consoles and they wont want people rebuying consoles again to get a HD-DVD integrated, even if they can by the same game on multiple DVD.

You got loads of games from plenty of consoles (PS1, DC, GC I know of) on multiple disk.

K: Im sure you can get HDMI to DVI adapters, not sure what they do with the sound though, but if you can plug in the analouge A/V connector you may be able to just use the optical out from a VGA connector.

As I understand it, HDMI is just DVI wiring (rearranged) plus Coaxial Digital Audio (5.1, wiring rearranged into pins). So I'd imagine if you have an HDMI port, your HDMI-DVI adapter should be cheap (no processing required, just redirect some wires) and should easily also supply a Coaxial digital audio output.

Originally Posted by BioSniper
...
Really though, why in the hell do manufacturers do this? Specifically in the console market. Is it just to screw early adopters?

Early adopters practically always pay more and get less than those who wait - That's why they now call it "the bleeding edge". I understand your frustration with consoles and why you think they should be different but look at the later models of the PS1 and PS2. I suspect MS feels they have to add stuff to fend off Sony - But they won't add it until Sony becomes a threat. It's what MS, and many others, have done for years in other areas.

If it's like $600-700, I'll sell my current 360 for that.

Originally Posted by Tyinsar
Early adopters practically always pay more and get less than those who wait ... look at the later models of the PS1 and PS2.

I don't remember the specifics of the upgrades between early/late models of PS1 and PS2....but I was under the impression that they were mostly related to size and power consumption.

If the "Zephyr" 360 is real, I have no problem with the 65nm upgrade to the processor or the addition of the HDMI port. The problem I do have is with the upgrade to the hard drive. Here's why (apologies for the bold font...but I feel it highlights main points):

Basically, Microsoft made a proprietary hard drive at a measly 20GB and sold it for a whopping $100. That drive is completely useless except when attached to a 360, and 360's are generally a 1-per household thing (unlike other electronics/computers). Based on the idea that consoles don't usually get upgrades that significantly change functionality, a bunch of people paid the exorbitant price. A year or so later, Microsoft realizes their mistake offering only the tiny hard drive size, since a small hard drive limits certain capabilities of the console (in terms of how much media you can store on it). Additionally, Microsoft is now selling the media that makes that 20GB hard drive feel so tight...which is again a choice Microsoft made that probably was not clear at the time many people paid for the 20GB drive (most assumed it would be fore game saves, emulation files to play XBox 1 games, and perhaps an MP3 collection). If Microsoft starts selling a larger hard drive, people are left having to replace their 20GB drive if they want the larger model. The nature of a "console" (along with Microsofts choice for a proprietary hard drive) make this so terrible:

(A) If a console was like other electronics equipment, the "old" 360 would be moved to a different room in the house (you know, like the lesser TV/DVD Player in the bedroom, and the super theater setup in the living room). But folks don't really do that with consoles as far as I know.

(B) If this was an upgrade similar to a hard drive upgrade for a computer/laptop, owners of the 20GB drive could:

1. keep using it as an extra hard drive on the same machine
2. install it in a different computer
3. convert it to an external hard drive and keep using it
4. sell it at a decent fraction of what they paid for it

But, because of Microsoft's choices, somebody can unwittingly buy a 20GB 360 HD now for $100, and then when the 120GB model comes out in a few months (probably at a similar price...maybe $150 at the most), the poor guy who wants to upgrade will be stuck with an otherwise useless 20GB drive that can't even be resold at a decent price because the 120GB drive is a much better price/GB ratio.

In my opinion, the existence of the 120GB drive means Microsoft has bamboozled everybody who bought the $100 20GB proprietary paperweight (not just early adopters...but people all the way up until Microsoft officially announces the new HD) . The least Microsoft should do is offer some sort of trade-in/upgrade path at reduced cost...

you could sell the 20gb hard drive. you'd lose out on a fair whack of money but just dismantle it and sell it on ebay.

*Looks at his 200GB USB drive*

*Looks at his non-HDTV*

Hmmmm... meh.

I done the same SeBbY_007, damn you microsoft i hope they do a trade in program, Old Xbox for New Xbox £100. Doubt it

On another note, who else thinks the chick hawking Crucial RAM in the border ad is cute?

Rawr.

Most of what I would say about this has been said, but I think the most important issues are:

1. Hard drive size/inability to upgrade unlike PS3. I still can't believe they would even dare sell the 20 GB for $100. My friends didn't even realize they were getting ripped off.
2. If there is an HD-DVD drive, new games would be unplayable on the older Xbox without buying the $200 drive separately.
3. Many people are going to be, and have already said so here, very upset since the general console life cycle is at least 4-5 years. So for Microsoft to suddenly announce a newer version a year after the original product is very surprising.

My only guess is that they rationalized the decision to make a change now by saying that they might lose more customers to the PS3 in the near future when HD becomes necessary and their customers want more download space. In another topic (on this site I believe), Kutaragi's comment on a long life cycle for the PS3 annoyed a lot of people. I posted and said that I imagine Sony meant that their console would just outlast the other consoles, rather than become obsolete when HD becomes standard.

It was probably a smart business decision for Microsoft to make changes as soon as possible, and although it will alienate a lot of customers, it will save sales in the long run. Assuming it's true. I'm fine with my PS3 right now though.

i think you will see the 20 gig drive drop in price and the 120 hover in at $150 or bundled with the hddvd drive as a home media package, FYI HDMI is designed to carry 8 channels of audio.

hmm Im glad I waited on buying a 360 ^_^

I agree with EQC 100%, that was the point of my last sarcastic post which mysteriously vanished.


I apologize in advance for the rant:


Millions of people, like me, are stuck with a 20GB hard drive that's pretty much good for nothing as soon as games start installing software in large amounts. You can bet the farm that's where we're heading. Having a proprietary HD was a very stupid idea for MS, but how else would they get away with selling a 20GB hard drive for 10 times more than what they are worth? It's the same deal they pull by releasing the crappy little wireless ethernet card for 100 dollars, that according to several of my friends who actually bought one, barely works.

Unless they say "send in your old 20GB HD for a free upgrade to the 120GB" this will leave a very sour taste in my mouth. They expect to sell the console and then make dumptruck loads of money on extra accessories. Not only that, but MS is also twisting the knife with the 65nm upgrade. Most console revisions do not start appearing until years after the initial release. That is ONLY because console revisions end up costing them less to manufacture, not because they suddenly decide to add additional features. Basically, you now own an inferior product if you purchased it between release and whenever the new ones come out. With normal hardware that's not a big deal because you expect newer versions of TVs, DVD players, Cell Phones, etc... to come out all of the time.

With consoles you expect them to last for years and be able to perform 100% of all of the functions developers will ever demand for the life of the system. Now, I'm not 100% sure that future games and software will demand the bigger HD or if the 90nm CPUs start blowing up 6 months from now, but as soon as a single game that comes out that requires several gigs installation to the hard drive, original owners are getting screwed out of being able to play that game without either deleting or backing up GBs worth of content, the latter of which requires extra expensive accesories and work.

Suggesting I take apart the hard drive, ghost it, and install it on a bigger SATA drive, I will remind you that that will void my warranty and that's not even a viable alternative because only a small amount of 360 owners are going to A.Know how to do it, B. Know where to get the required software and C. confident enough to actually do the work required without screwing it up and breaking their hard drive.

Sony's system of having an easily upgradeable hard drive was one of the smartest ideas that went into the PS3.

I hope this is true. Because if it is, then I would consider getting it.

Originally Posted by EQC
I don't remember the specifics of the upgrades between early/late models of PS1 and PS2....but I was under the impression that they were mostly related to size and power consumption.

According to Wikipedia the changes in the PS2 were mostly internal but the more noticeable ones were: + IR port, + Ethernet port, - 3.5" drive bay, - FireWire, + read DVD-RW & DVD+RW, + progressive-scan output of DVD movies.

As for the original PS I think it was mostly size shrinks but, according to Wikipedia again: "The PSone also lacks the original PlayStation's serial port, which allowed multiple consoles to be hooked up for multi-TV multiplayer."

Originally Posted by EQC
...But, because of Microsoft's choices, somebody can unwittingly buy a 20GB 360 HD now for $100, and then when the 120GB model comes out in a few months (probably at a similar price...maybe $150 at the most), the poor guy who wants to upgrade will be stuck with an otherwise useless 20GB drive that can't even be resold at a decent price because the 120GB drive is a much better price/GB ratio.

In my opinion, the existence of the 120GB drive means Microsoft has bamboozled everybody who bought the $100 20GB proprietary paperweight (not just early adopters...but people all the way up until Microsoft officially announces the new HD) . The least Microsoft should do is offer some sort of trade-in/upgrade path at reduced cost...

;) I'm all for that last suggestion.

So the 360 has not yet established a good share of the market and MS then releases 360 version 2.0 with a better hard-drive, better CPU, better media drive, and better output options. We have no idea how much this will cost, however currently a premium 360 = $399, add an HD-DVD drive for $199, giveing $598 and compare that to $599 for the PS3. If MS adds HD-DVD and does not change the price of the console I'll be amazed. If MS adds HD and keeps the same price they would screwed every single owner of non HD 360s.

Way to go MS. ;)

L J

I confess I didn't read the article, but when is it going to be released?

Originally Posted by R_H
I confess I didn't read the article, but when is it going to be released?

It's still rumours unfortunately.

Man, I'd hate to be a 360 owner right now. It looks like consoles are slowly losing all the advantages they held over PCs.

Seriously, what’s wrong with you lot? If you bought a 360 with a 20gig drive, then it is your own fault. MS gave you lots of options for other storage methods (external hard drives, thumb drives or memory cards anyone?). But in the end it was you who shelled out the money for the smaller drive rather than waiting for something better to come along, or using your own (cheaper) methods.

Besides, this can only be a good thing for MS, as it will attract a broader range of customers, both to the cheaper V1 (as this will obviously make V1 cheaper) and to V2 due to it's features.

Don't complain about a company because you made a poor choice.

This is coming from somebody who owns a 360 with the following: 20gig drive, 2 wireless controllers, quick charge kit (with 2 batteries), component and VGA cables, wireless adaptor (which works perfectly on a properly setup network by the way, WPK-PSA enabled), "hot rod" faceplate, and a dvd/game/console stand thingy.

Am I concerned that my console is going to rendered, oh how was it put, "worthless"? No, because I am enjoying it, and I feel it was worth what I paid at the time I paid, as I was able to justify it at that moment in time. Hell, there is even a chance I might upgrade to this newer one, simply to get the larger drive at a discount and to aid in the clutter of my home cinema (42” Acer LCD and a good 300watts per channel audio setup) and to add HD-DVD functionality (roomie is buying a PS3 soon enough, so a stand-alone doesn’t make too much sense for me right at this moment).




My opinion anyway.

I hope they include built-in Wi-Fi or at least just include the little antenna with the console the next time around. It's ridiculous enough to have to pay for a $100 20GB HD, on top of having to buy a $100 wireless adaptor on top of it. I don't know what people are talking about when they say the PS3 is expensive. Add those accessories in, plus the HD-DVD drive, and you're $100 over the nicer PS3 already.

"Seriously, what’s wrong with you lot? If you bought a 360 with a 20gig drive, then it is your own fault."

It's my fault for buying the more expensive Xbox360 package because it represented a much better price value than the 'tard' pack that comes with no hard drive or memory unit? If I KNEW that a year later they would be releasing a system with an improved CPU, HDMI and 120GB hard drive, I would have considered waiting because that would be the smart thing to do. If I KNEW all that, then it would be my fault for buying the "premium package." Microsoft came out of left field with this upgrade and are basically saying "too bad" to all of the buyers who are now stuck with an inferior product but paid the same amount as all of the people who will be getting this new pack in the future.

I think this new 360 coming out is the answer to my problems, I wanted to mod my 360 but with this new one I can mod it and keep the new one unmodded and the addition of the bigger hdd is great cause I hate to always have to delete stuff just so I can download more.
and HDMI is great since my new LCD HDTV has it but I have nothing to plug to it, and now with this new 360 I can plug it to HDMI and free a component slot for an extra console.

@Neogumbercules: I worded that wrong, I realize, but what you said makes no sense at all. How can you say that it is microsoft's fault that you justified paying for something while they had something in development? What you are basically saying is that nobody should ever buy anything, because something better/newer/shiny will come out days/weeks/months/years later.

Awesome idea ;)

Think of it this way: if MS did say "Hey! Don't buy any of the consoles now, as we're just going to release another, updated, fuller featured one in a year or two that will cost you more! Wait and buy that one instead!" Do you honestly think the console would have survived long enough to even see V2 come into fruition? I doubt it.

Take some responsibility and enjoyment out of your purchase rather than complaining. Remember: when you look backwards, you always have 20:20 vision.

The point is that Microsoft is setting a precedent by releasing a vastly improved version of their console system only a little more than 1 year after it's initial release. No console manufacturer has ever released a revision of their system this soon after launch, and with THAT much added functionality. Like I said, if no game, function, whatever, EVER requires ANY of the new and improved features of this new 360 model then all this is bickering is over nothing. If games start coming out that require bigger HD space and demanding HDMI out for full A/V functionality then MS is pulling a very sheisty maneuver.

I don't like having the rug pulled out from under me. Computers, TVs, Cell Phones, etc are expected to improve at a very very quick pace as newer "in-demand" functionality comes to light. Consoles are sold under the expectation that they will be sitting under your TV with everything you will need to make the games you want to play work for several years. The last console cycle is going on 7 years now, and I can still play every game that comes out for my PS2.

Since this new rumored 360 is supposed to have a 120 GB hard drive, developers would be hard pressed to ignore all of this extra space. All it takes is for a couple of big hits to start the trend of installing data to the HD and suddenly every game will start using it and the 20GB'ers will be left in the dust and forced to upgrade to a proprietary (Read: overpriced) 120GB hard drive if they want to keep up with the latest games.

And you are right, if MS advertised a much better release in the future they would have shot themselves in the foot. They should have either just let it come with the 120GB hard drive and HDMI out of the box (oh no, then it would be as expensive as the PS3!) or require that developers do not make their games under the requirement of installing game files to the hard drive.

So what you are basing this on is your history with consoles, correct? Well, what about the N64? Remember the RAM upgrade (or whatever that little cartridge was)? Well, there were many games that you could play without it, but as time went by, more and more games started to almost require it for full functionality (one that springs immediately to mind is Perfect Dark).

Or what about games that require disgustingly large amounts of save space? Take RPG maker for the PS1. With only minimal level design that bloody game used up almost an entire official sony memory card!

Maybe we can take this in a different direction: controllers. What of the games that require a specialized controller to be able to play? From fishing to driving, many games almost demand the use of specialized devices.

This is nothing new, and there is no reason to think this will be the last.

And did you ever think that maybe if games do come out on HD-DVD that the external drive might just be able to be used for this purpose? Remind you of any other system? Yeah, I thought so.

Besides, what does your 360 not do now that you want it to do which this new one may be able to do? HDMI? Why not just get a component to HDMI/DVI converter? Cheaper than the difference between a V1 and V2 console. Bigger hard drive? Again, if you want to shop smart, why not just go for an external drive to store all that HD content on? Much more space for the price, because after all, everybody does keep bringing that up. Mainly because it is a good point.

But anyway, does it make any sense to you for a developer to make a "big hit" type of game for only half their potential audience? Far more economically sound to keep the format the way it is rather than loose out on business simply because you wanted to try something new to piss people off.

Xbox-Scene have some very real looking pictures and a video of the new port and revised scaler chip here:

http://www.xbox-scene.com/xbox1data/sep/EEylpyZkVpwzemjZKk.php

Im glad Malf knows what I'm talking about. It's no different than what has gone before and you can still get exactly the same output, albiet analouge, from component and VGA. Only if you're a digital snob would you care.

Am i the only one who is disapointed with the amount of USB ports still standing at 3? by the looks of the version 2 console?

Not sure why you would be?

If they did add HD-DVD. Great. But it will only be for movies, not games. Microsoft already said this. Also, Microsoft already stated that All GAMES MUST work with only an mem. card pluged in... So stop making trouble where there is none. All a bigger HD would do is let you store more stuff: IE their download movies, music, ect.

But what if games companies released a HD-DVD version AND a multiple DVD verison? You could choose which to buy depending on your console, just like if you owned a CD drive or a DVD drive on a PC.

I hope MS do make this, it would be a direct competion winner over the PS3, and i hope MS make it cheap enough for people to buy, But i dout it will be ready by the time Halo 3 is released.

Sam

You wont be stuck with a 20GB paper weight. Just take the drive out the case and shove it into a external case and use it on your pc. Why not do that if you get a new 120gb if they bring it out.

Anyway, X-box scene have a video to prove the HDMI is real.

http://www.xbox-scene.com/xbox1data/sep/EEylpyZkVpwzemjZKk.php

Originally Posted by DLoney
If they did add HD-DVD. Great. But it will only be for movies, not games. Microsoft already said this. Also, Microsoft already stated that All GAMES MUST work with only an mem. card pluged in... So stop making trouble where there is none. All a bigger HD would do is let you store more stuff: IE their download movies, music, ect.

They also said they wouldn't be releasing a new version of the console, ;)

It's not really a new version, it's a slightly upgraded version, it's long been known that they will re-release it witha 65mn core. They just integrated a cable into it.

And the 120GB HDD will be like the existing 20GB I reckon. An external module.

The video seems legitimate, my question though is if it's a development kit (which is stated) why isn't it black?

I'm tending to believe this is simply a prototype.

If it's real, there are going to be a lot of angry people.

Why are people angry, the Xbox 360 itself hasn't been changed, the larger hard drive has been on the cards since Microsoft decided to develop the HD download service, and we haven't had any details on the drive. Everyones assuming it'll be locked to the newer version. But I strongly doubt it, as I said earlier it'll probably just be a unit like the existing hard drive.

I too dont get why people say 360 owners will be angry. Angry over newer users having a HDMI port. Whats so special about it.

Even if they do release a 360 with a 120GB hard drive. Why are you going to be pissed as im sure its going to cost more that £300 for the prem console and hard drive.

I dont see any point getting a bigger hard drive. I find the Market place crap as theres nothing there to download. The odd movie trailer and game demo which you delete after watching or playing. So 20Gb is more than enough. Im not going to pay for anything on there so my option is that im going to buy a 500GB usb hard drive to store my music and videos on as I already have all my music ripped into mp3 and aint going to do it all again on the 360.

Still think an external USB drive is the best and cheapest option.

the problem is that most people are not as rational as you are.... some people will see a XBOX360 with included 120GB Hard drive and HDMI and will go like:
"OMFGWTF are microxoft doyng, tei ar haxoring or walets??!?!?!?!1'1'1'1'1'1'1'".(<- the winy mother f***ers that scream a lot when you play online)
the normal joe will go either:"bill gates is a thief, i payed a kidney and a liver to get a premium console!!!" or "what? i don't really care, if my 360 still works i am cool with it"

me? i don't have one and i think i will get one as soon as i get cash and the console drops under a certain price.

the only people who will get angry are the ones who paid 4 billion pounds getting one off ebay, and they deserve it for stupidity

unless the downloadable films and tv shows are cheap the 120gb drive is pointless, theres some music videos on the marketplace already and they really arent worth it at all

Originally Posted by mikeuk2004
I too dont get why people say 360 owners will be angry.

Because people are idiots.

Read any of the comments on dailytech or Digg and it cements my argument.

Apparently the official Microsoft response:

We have no plans to include an HD DVD drive in an Xbox 360, and in fact, we won’t put games on HD DVD.

The Xbox 360 is built to be modular, and while we haven’t announced anything specific, the hard drive on the Xbox 360 was made to be easily swapped out.
We have made no announcements about a new SKU, any new accessories, or any plans for a price drop.

Note the complete lack of reference to the HDMI connection.

Translated? Confirmed.