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Culture Secretary targets search engines

Culture Secretary targets search engines

Culture Secretary Sajid Javid has told the BPI that the government expects search engines to do more to avoid linking to infringing content, and will look at legislation if they do not 'step up and show willing.'

The UK government has indicated that it intends to take a stronger stance on search engines linking to sites that infringe copyright, claiming they must 'step up and show willing.'

Search engines have long claimed that they are not responsible for the content they carry, merely indexing pages and returning results for search terms. If some of those results are illegal or unlawful, they claim, that's something the relevant authorities must take up with the target site. Governments and pro-copyright lobbyists argue that by providing access to such sites, the search engines are jointly culpable and must work to expunge infringing material from their databases or be held accountable.

Although search services like that offered by advertising giant Google respond to take-down notices, including those issued under the US Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA), the UK government has indicated that this is not enough. In a speech during the annual general meeting of the British Phonographic Industry (BPI) - one of the biggest pro-copyright lobbies in the UK - Culture Secretary Sajid Javid stated that 'search engines also have to play their part. They must step up and show willing.

'That’s why Vince Cable and I have written to Google, Microsoft and Yahoo, asking them to work with you to stop search results sending people to illegal sites. And let me be perfectly clear: if we don’t see real progress, we will be looking at a legislative approach,
' Javid warned. 'In the words of Martin Mills, “technology companies should be the partners of rights companies, not their masters.”'

Javid also explained that the government has allocated £2.5 million in public funds to support the City of London Police Intellectual Property Crime Unit (PIPCU), which runs a list of allegedly infringing websites using data provided by industry groups including the BPI. 'The list identifies sites that deliberately and consistently breach copyright, so brand owners can avoid advertising on them. A pilot scheme saw a 12 per cent drop in advertising from major household brands, the kind of big names that lend legitimacy to illegal sites,' Javid claimed. 'It’s a small first step. But over time the list, along with action taken by payment facilitators, will provide a valuable tool for making copyright infringement a much less lucrative business.

'And that’s the best way to stop the career copyright criminals. As I said earlier, you work in music because you love it. Copyright crooks don’t love music. They love money, and they’ve been attracted to the industry solely by its potential to make them rich. Take away their profits and you take away their reason for being.
'

Sajid Javid's speech can be read in full in the GOV.UK speeches archive.

27 Comments

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XXAOSICXX 3rd September 2014, 11:40 Quote
"Music industry fatcats not making enough cash; government intervenes"

-_-
Pookie 3rd September 2014, 11:53 Quote
It's child porn that disgusts me the most. They should be focusing on that rather than the record industry losing a few sales on itunes. Besides who uses a search engine these days to look for free music downloads? Anyone who does download music already knows where to get it and won't ever use a search engine.
Maki role 3rd September 2014, 11:54 Quote
Bunch of tools, the lot of them. Doesn't help that no matter which government we elect in, this rubbish will still occur. I still hold the firm belief that 95% of politicians are only there because they can't do a job well elsewhere that's better paid.

Hopefully Vince Cable will be unable to keep the copyright lobbyists stable. The record labels should just disable their motions so that we may enable this whole debacle to be reduced to a fable.
Corky42 3rd September 2014, 12:52 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pookie
It's child porn that disgusts me the most. They should be focusing on that rather than the record industry losing a few sales on itunes.

You forget that The City of London Police are only concerned with the square mile, they are nothing more than the financial sectors lackeys caring more about protecting bankers and corporations than us normal folk.
Pookie 3rd September 2014, 13:01 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corky42
You forget that The City of London Police are only concerned with the square mile, they are nothing more than the financial sectors lackeys caring more about protecting bankers and corporations than us normal folk.

And protecting Muslim extremists like Anjem Choudary but that's for another thread.
Corky42 3rd September 2014, 14:05 Quote
Or being wined and dinned by scientologists, being bribed, etc, etc. Lets face it they are about as crooked as it's possible for any "Police" force to be.
Woodspoon 3rd September 2014, 14:21 Quote
Making threats to Google, yeah I can see that ending well
mattbailey 3rd September 2014, 15:32 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corky42
Or being wined and dinned by scientologists, being bribed, etc, etc. Lets face it they are about as crooked as it's possible for any "Police" force to be.

You wont be calling 999 if your ever unfortunate enough to be a victim of a crime then.
Locknload 3rd September 2014, 16:17 Quote
Why would you dial 999 if you were a victim of crime?
What a rose tinted view of quaint british life you have.
You need to step out into the real world and have a real look at what the police think about Joe public, they don't give a toss mate. It is all about the statistics.
The police are as far removed from conventional society as you can possibly imagine.
Everytime i have had the necessity to report a crime, like my car being stolen, like my home being burgled, like reporting a dead person lying on a footpath ( YES! really). They have been disinterested and often dismissive of there actually been a crime.
My local police force up in Cleveland, must be the worst bunch of ramble since the Serious Crime Agency of the 70's and 80's.
A heap of them in prison now ( quite a few for rape and serious drug offences), lots suspended pending investigation, bribery, corruption in a public office and endless cases of destroyed evidence and perjury.

Just incase you get the wrong idea of why i might bring this up and assume i am a somewhat undesirable scruff, may i point out that i am 49 yr old married man, who has been employed by the Private health sector for the last 20yrs to facilitate specialist care to Young Onset Dementia sufferers with Huntingtons Disease.

I have NEVER had an incident that involved the Police, where i felt confident that my concerns were being dealt with to a satisfactory standard.
I may be an isolated case, but i somehow doubt it.
The Police farce in this country is a corporate and political whore, who willingly roll over for anybody that has either the influence or the financial clout to ask.
Nexxo 3rd September 2014, 16:20 Quote
They do organise great "Through the Keyhole" tours of Cliff Richards' house though. :p
Locknload 3rd September 2014, 16:24 Quote
Oh I forgot.
I once waited 3 days for the Police to come and see me when my Home was burgled.
The Victim Support people made it in 2 hours.
Always brings a chuckle that one.
When the Police (well PCSO actually), did come they said it was hardly worth reporting as a crime as the only thing stolen was a bicycle and some power tools under a 500 pound total.
They told me it would probably not be put down as a crime, and that i should contact my insurance company to see if i can claim.
Locknload 3rd September 2014, 16:27 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexxo
They do organise great "Through the Keyhole" tours of Cliff Richards' house though. :p

What I found was funny was that the schematics for Cliff Richards house were provided to the police Force by THE BBC.

I bet he will not do anymore BBC Christmas Specials then..
Shirty 3rd September 2014, 17:05 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pookie
Besides who uses a search engine these days to look for free music downloads? Anyone who does download music already knows where to get it and won't ever use a search engine.

This. Short of a one time Google of "pirate bay proxies" no self respecting copyright thief would ever go near a search engine these days.
Nexxo 3rd September 2014, 17:13 Quote
If I put my tinfoil hat on for a moment, I wonder if it is not really about copyright protection any more than the "right to be forgotten" is about people's right to privacy. I wonder if it is just the start of a systematic attempt by governments to control public access of information on the internet.

Imposing filtering on ISPs of political dissent inconvenient truths public empowerment porn and terrorism sites is one part of the plan. Imposing filtering on search engines is another. I wonder what is next.
Corky42 3rd September 2014, 17:25 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattbailey
You wont be calling 999 if your ever unfortunate enough to be a victim of a crime then.

999 is just an emergency telephone number, what police force deals with the crime is dependent on the location that the call is being made from. If you happened to be unfortunate enough to call from the square mile then yes it would be dealt with by the many (750) full-time police officers they have.

Maybe if everywhere in the UK had 750 police for every square mile none of us would be a victim of crime, sadly we don't have the money to pay for so many officers.
Anfield 3rd September 2014, 18:46 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pookie
It's child porn that disgusts me the most. They should be focusing on that rather than the record industry losing a few sales on itunes.

Regardless if its child porn or copyrighted music or info someone no longer wants on the web, targeting search engines is stupid.

Is there a need for a system to remove certain content from the internet?

Yes.

However there is also a need that it comes with conditions:

1: Only content that is illegal enough to stand up to challenge in a court can be removed.
2: The content needs to be actually removed and not just blocked.
3: Massive financial penalties for abusing the system need to be in place.
mi1ez 3rd September 2014, 22:55 Quote
Whenever these stories rear their heads again, it just reminds me that these ministers have little to no idea of how the internet, and search engines, work.
John_T 3rd September 2014, 23:22 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corky42

999 is just an emergency telephone number, what police force deals with the crime is dependent on the location that the call is being made from. If you happened to be unfortunate enough to call from the square mile then yes it would be dealt with by the many (750) full-time police officers they have.

Maybe if everywhere in the UK had 750 police for every square mile none of us would be a victim of crime, sadly we don't have the money to pay for so many officers.

In fairness, most square miles of the UK don't have the best part of a third of a million people working in them and aren't highly valuable terrorist targets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Locknload

(*everything*)

While I don't doubt everything you say, I think like Corky says, it does vary enormously which force you are dealing with. I've only ever had to deal with them a couple of times, once in London and once in Essex, and I have to say they were pretty good both times.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexxo
If I put my tinfoil hat on for a moment, I wonder if it is not really about copyright protection any more than the "right to be forgotten" is about people's right to privacy. I wonder if it is just the start of a systematic attempt by governments to control public access of information on the internet.

Imposing filtering on ISPs of political dissent inconvenient truths public empowerment porn and terrorism sites is one part of the plan. Imposing filtering on search engines is another. I wonder what is next.

I don't think you need to be wearing a tinfoil hat for that, I strongly suspect you're (rather depressingly) bang on the money.
John_T 3rd September 2014, 23:24 Quote
Oh, and I meant to add - completely agree with Anfield as well.
Fizzban 4th September 2014, 01:32 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexxo
If I put my tinfoil hat on for a moment, I wonder if it is not really about copyright protection any more than the "right to be forgotten" is about people's right to privacy. I wonder if it is just the start of a systematic attempt by governments to control public access of information on the internet.

Imposing filtering on ISPs of political dissent inconvenient truths public empowerment porn and terrorism sites is one part of the plan. Imposing filtering on search engines is another. I wonder what is next.

You are very close to the mark. What is next? Making it a criminal offence to bypass the filters via proxies ect. Then periodically demand access to ISP logs to see who has been doing what, where, when and how often and then arresting those people they deem to be naughty. After all once the prison system is privatised they will want as many of us in there as possible to make money off, just like in the USA.
Corky42 4th September 2014, 07:43 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by John_T
In fairness, most square miles of the UK don't have the best part of a third of a million people working in them and aren't highly valuable terrorist targets.

Gatwick, Heathrow ? I would hazard a guess there are many places in the UK that have more people, less officers, and present valuable terrorist targets, it's just that the square mile has more money.
The City of London Corporation has a lot of similarities with the Vatican City (IMHO), it's almost like a state within a state, its got its own police force, its own courts, business are able to vote in elections, the list of oddities and differences in the way it operates is endless.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fizzban
You are very close to the mark. What is next? Making it a criminal offence to bypass the filters via proxies ect. Then periodically demand access to ISP logs to see who has been doing what, where, when and how often and then arresting those people they deem to be naughty. After all once the prison system is privatised they will want as many of us in there as possible to make money off, just like in the USA.

Much easier to make running a proxy a criminal offense surely ? Just arrest the people running these services, after all they must be upto no good because they are helping people to access things we have deemed naughty.
Nexxo 4th September 2014, 08:02 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corky42
The City of London Corporation has a lot of similarities with the Vatican City (IMHO), it's almost like a state within a state, its got its own police force (who don't answer to the IPCC) its own courts, business are able to vote in elections, the list of oddities and differences in the way it operates is endless.

That is a very interesting and apt comparison.
Krazeh 4th September 2014, 08:38 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corky42
its got its own police force (who don't answer to the IPCC)

Err, yes they do.
Corky42 4th September 2014, 09:10 Quote
My apologises, i could have sworn i read that they didn't.
Edited the original to removed that, thanks Kraze.
adam_bagpuss 4th September 2014, 11:15 Quote
Quote:
Javid warned. 'In the words of Martin Mills, “technology companies should be the partners of rights companies, not their masters.”

im sorry, WHAT! sounds like rights companies want to be the masters and asking the government to intervene, just shows who controls who.

I agree that piracy needs to be curbed but forcing customers to buy how they want it and when is what causes genuine customers to pirate.

these are the top reason i beleive it happens

1. show is released in another country early (game of thrones anyone, also one of the most pirated in 2012/2013 i think ??)
2. digital downloads are locked to specific devices or limited sharing
3. price for digital download is the same price as physical when it is considerably cheaper to distribute electronically although ill admit download service fees can be expensive which may account for this.
4. lack of choice around switching services and taking YOUR purchased content with you.
John_T 4th September 2014, 11:40 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corky42

Gatwick, Heathrow ? I would hazard a guess there are many places in the UK that have more people, less officers, and present valuable terrorist targets, it's just that the square mile has more money.

It's not just about money, although that does into it somewhat, (it's part of what makes the place such a target). Gatwick and Heathrow, despite having tens of millions of people pass through them each year, only have a small fraction of the number of people of the square mile on site at any one time. You're right though, they are highly valuable terrorist targets, which is why they too have their own specialist police force, made up of hundreds of (armed) police officers - unit SO18.

I don't really understand why you seem to have a problem with the square mile being so heavily protected - all valuable sites in the UK are protected. (And I don't just mean valuable in terms of money, strategic value too). The more valuable they are, or under threat they are, they more protected they will be.

Look at Newport at the moment - not a lot of cash but 10,000 police there right now!
Corky42 4th September 2014, 13:21 Quote
SO18 has around 400 officers to cover two separate locations, Gatwick and all other airports are covered by the local constabulary.

I don't have a problem with all valuable sites in the UK being protected, i have a problem with The City of London Corporation. The way it's influenced by big business, that it takes responsibility for supporting the financial services industry and representing its interests, that such a corporation has its own police force serving those financial interests, instead of serving the interests of the public.
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