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Amazon says no to Bitcoin

Amazon says no to Bitcoin

Amazon's head of payments Tom Taylor has said that the company has no plans to add support for Bitcoins to its webshop, despite rivals doing exactly that.

Amazon has indicated that it's not going to join in the cryptocurrency revolution by adding support for Bitcoin to its payment system, even as increasing numbers of its competitors do exactly that.

Bitcoin, created by the pseudonymous Satoshi Nakamoto in 2008, is a distributed, decentralised cryptocurrency based on proof-of-work principles: set your computer generating SHA256 hashes for transaction validation and you'll get rewarded with Bitcoins of your very own, generated at an ever-decreasing rate by the algorithm itself. The cryptocurrency is free from governmental control, anonymous yet entirely traceable - until you attempt to convert Bitcoins into fiat currency or vice-versa, of course - and runs on a decentralised system of volunteer computers.

It sounds remarkable, but Bitcoin's meteoric rise from being worth fractions of a penny to a high of more than $1,000 per coin has been fraught with difficulties. Amateur coding errors in major Bitcoin exchanges like MT Gox - originally set up to be a trading site for Magic: The Gathering cards, hence the name - has led to the loss of millions of dollars in Bitcoins and a significant drop in their value on the open market. For every country like the US which is making its laws more Bitcoin-friendly, there are countries like China which have banned the use of the cryptocurrency outright.

In the UK and US, increasing numbers of retailers are accepting payment in Bitcoin - largely out of a hope that it will continue its rise in value, recover from the recent slump and make yesterday's £50 payment double in value or more. Amazon, however, has said it won't be joining the revolution. 'Obviously, it [Bitcoin] gets a lot of press and we have considered it,' Tom Taylor, head of Amazon's payments arm, told Re/code in a recent interview, 'but we're not hearing from customers that it's right for them and don't have any plans within Amazon to engage Bitcoin.'

At the time of writing, a single Bitcoin was valued at just shy of £300 - a significant dip from its high of more than £600 before the recent crash.

36 Comments

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rollo 15th April 2014, 10:55 Quote
This not a real surprise as the currency's value moves on a minute by minute basis by the time your order was posted it could be worth half what you paid if using bit coin the swings are a bit crazy and I guess amazon want no part of it.
theshadow2001 15th April 2014, 10:57 Quote
Makes sense I suppose. Amazon is a bulk to the general public sort of online store. Most of whom are probably barely aware of bit coin. If even that. Some one like Scan who is smaller and has a niche techy customer base are more likely to see value in accepting bit coin and investing in the necessary infrastructure. Which they did.
bawjaws 15th April 2014, 11:20 Quote
Not entirely surprising, really. Most adopters of bitcoin seem to be more niche tech websites or companies looking to drum up a bit of publicity - "look at us, we're down with the kids, we accept bitcoin!"

Gareth - "Fractions of a pence"? Surely "fractions of a penny", as pence is plural?
Gareth Halfacree 15th April 2014, 11:27 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by bawjaws
Gareth - "Fractions of a pence"? Surely "fractions of a penny", as pence is plural?
You're quite right; I shall amend that forthwith!
Kovoet 15th April 2014, 11:30 Quote
Well that did not last that long
ferret141 15th April 2014, 13:35 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by bawjaws
Not entirely surprising, really. Most adopters of bitcoin seem to be more niche tech websites or companies looking to drum up a bit of publicity - "look at us, we're down with the kids, we accept bitcoin!"

Gareth - "Fractions of a pence"? Surely "fractions of a penny", as pence is plural?

My local Cafe/Cake shop accepts BitCoins. https://twitter.com/CafeSawmill
bawjaws 15th April 2014, 13:38 Quote
Sure, there are a few small businesses that accept BitCoins, but I'd say they're doing so either because their owners are tech-savvy or because they see some free publicity in doing so.
mclean007 15th April 2014, 13:44 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by ferret141
Quote:
Originally Posted by bawjaws
Not entirely surprising, really. Most adopters of bitcoin seem to be more niche tech websites or companies looking to drum up a bit of publicity - "look at us, we're down with the kids, we accept bitcoin!"

Gareth - "Fractions of a pence"? Surely "fractions of a penny", as pence is plural?

My local Cafe/Cake shop accepts BitCoins. https://twitter.com/CafeSawmill
Epic. How many Satoshis for a slice of cheesecake?
PaulC2K 15th April 2014, 18:25 Quote
"In the UK and US, increasing numbers of retailers are accepting payment in Bitcoin - largely out of a hope that it will continue its rise in value, recover from the recent slump and make yesterday's £50 payment double in value or more."
Gareth, thats a load of waffle :P

Retailers dont give a damn, because they dont hold the currency, for the simple reason that tomorrow price could slump every bit as much as it could rise. They use a payment processor like Bitpay who takes their £50 worth of BTC, sells it for £50, keeps 1% for itself leaving the retailer with £49.50.
All the retailer does is total the fiat value of the order, let the customer pick the payment method, and if they pick BTC then it works out how much btc should be sent for the retailer to value that amount.
Theres no risk or reward for the retailer, zero. No retailer would stockpile bitcoin because its too volatile, and thats where the processors come in and sell it for them and give them the cash for 1% (or $30/mo with 0% fee).
Thats why retailers are jumping on board, and frankly these services are a big boost to bitcoin acceptance, cos retailers just want cash, how it arrives isnt an issue.
Gareth Halfacree 15th April 2014, 18:33 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulC2K
Gareth, thats a load of waffle :P
Funny, 'cos I've spoken to retailers who *are* stockpiling - although some have panicked and ditched their holdings in the wake of the MT Gox fiasco.
PaulC2K 15th April 2014, 18:39 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by bawjaws
Sure, there are a few small businesses that accept BitCoins, but I'd say they're doing so either because their owners are tech-savvy or because they see some free publicity in doing so.
Plenty of big ones too. Scan being a perfectly good and relevant to anyone reading this.

All they do is integrate another payment processor, its really no different than accepting PayPal. That didnt happen overnight either, but plenty of retailers, big and small, accept PayPal for payments.

Give it time and it'll be the #1 payment method for internet transactions. Look at all the paywall sites like newspapers sites, instead of charging per month, they'll be able to allow per page views, or daily access. They dont as it stands because its not cost effective to send 1p to view a page, or 30p for a day. With bitcoins you'd just send a fraction of a bitcoin, and it'd cost the user about 1p, so 30p for access, 1p for the transaction.
For 2p, you could send someone on the other side of the world 1p. Why? heck knows, but try doing that with PayPal or international bank transfers in a cost effective way, £1m or £1, still only costs 1 pence to send.
Gareth Halfacree 15th April 2014, 18:47 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulC2K
Give it time and it'll be the #1 payment method for internet transactions.
Wanna bet? Tell you what, meet back here in a year: if Bitcoin has become the primary means of buying and selling goods and services over t'internet, I'll donate £100 in fractions-of-a-Bitcoin to a charity of your choosing; if it hasn't, you donate £100 in good ol' fiat currency to a charity of my choosing. Deal?

EDIT: It occurs to me we need a measurement metric here, so how's this: Bitpay, a Bitcoin payment processor, reckons it has "more than 20,000" customers; PayPal says it has "millions of businesses around the world" using its service and nearly 130 million active accounts (of which 2.6 million are considered "big spenders") - the majority of which, naturally, are personal users rather than business accounts. If Bitcoin - or A.N. Other Bitcoin payment processor, if you'd prefer - breaks five million business customers by this time next year, that'll be a win for you; if it falls short, a win for me.
theshadow2001 15th April 2014, 19:34 Quote
A year? No one would take that bet, no matter how emphatic their belief in bit coin's rise to the top.
Gareth Halfacree 15th April 2014, 19:43 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by theshadow2001
A year? No one would take that bet, no matter how emphatic their belief in bit coin's rise to the top.
Okay, let's pick a longer timescale. PayPal went live in 1999, and was acquired by eBay in 2002. At the time it was acquired, it had 15.4 million registered users.

So: let's shift the timescale out to three years, for any Bitcoin payment processor to hit five million customers. In that time, PayPal went from 24 users to 15.4 million, although again not all of those will have been business customers.
bawjaws 15th April 2014, 19:51 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulC2K
Quote:
Originally Posted by bawjaws
Sure, there are a few small businesses that accept BitCoins, but I'd say they're doing so either because their owners are tech-savvy or because they see some free publicity in doing so.
Plenty of big ones too. Scan being a perfectly good and relevant to anyone reading this.

To be fair, my post (#8) that you quoted was directed to ferret141 in direct reply to his post saying that his local coffe shop accepts bitcoins, hence my use of "small businesses". I'd previously posted (post #4) that "Most adopters of bitcoin seem to be more niche tech websites or..." and I'd argue that Scan fall into that category - sure, they're a big player in the UK PC hardware scene, but that's still a niche business.
PaulC2K 15th April 2014, 23:20 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gareth Halfacree
Funny, 'cos I've spoken to retailers who *are* stockpiling - although some have panicked and ditched their holdings in the wake of the MT Gox fiasco.
Retailers who employ more than 5 staff? Small businesses i can see some sense, but personally i'd call that idiotic and so would most people who run a business AS a business, rather than those who play the speculative game of 'what will it all be worth tomorrow'.
Anyone who can turn over say £1000/day from bitcoin, and can regularly see its value go from £1k to £0.9k or £1.1k and have that sort of volatility has an odd sense of running a business.

Either way, while some might, its certainly not what is driving its uptake in acceptance. Market demand and competitors accepting it is. Overclockers and similar sites will pick it up, not because they believe in BTC, but because Scan have adopted it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gareth Halfacree
Wanna bet? Tell you what, meet back here in a year: if Bitcoin has become the primary means of buying and selling goods and services over t'internet, I'll donate £100 in fractions-of-a-Bitcoin to a charity of your choosing; if it hasn't, you donate £100 in good ol' fiat currency to a charity of my choosing. Deal?

[editted terms snip]
Wow, i like how you basically perceived 'given time' into 'it'll happen overnight' and to your terms too, how could i resist? ;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gareth Halfacree
Okay, let's pick a longer timescale. PayPal went live in 1999, and was acquired by eBay in 2002. At the time it was acquired, it had 15.4 million registered users.

So: let's shift the timescale out to three years, for any Bitcoin payment processor to hit five million customers. In that time, PayPal went from 24 users to 15.4 million, although again not all of those will have been business customers.
Personally, i believe that it'll have widespread online acceptance within 5yrs, and a significant adoption on the high street.

5yrs is probably too soon, there isnt quite the need from the business end to pursue it. PayPal was one of the first of the online processors, there was no convenient and cheap solution like PayPal. That pushed businesses to adopt it. They were first on the scene, so expecting a company to come along 15yrs later and surpass that achievement when the need has been met, from a business standpoint, doesnt drive adoption.
What will is lower fees, customer adoption, worldwide access (plus even lower fees), but they wont drive it at the rate that PayPal did, simply because the only other alternative was CC processors. Thats fine for bigger businesses, but for small businesses and for regular folks its not. Then you have eBay, no more 'bank transfer, cheque or postal orders' - game, set & match.


I wouldnt take the 3yr bet based on my '#1 payment processor for internet transactions', let alone your heavily slanted 'if it beats a eBay pushing PayPal and its 15yr head start, vs Bitcoin's 5yr and Bitpays 2yrs or so, over the next 3yrs, cos those conditions are stupid, again. A household name vs 'a bit of what?'

But my statement, that GIVEN TIME it'll be the #1 payment method for internet transactions, will almost certainly happen. Its a digital currency for an ever converting digital world we live in. All content is moving to digital platforms, whether its news, music, or video, the alternatives while not dead are struggling.
The statement will happen, simply because the alternatives are terrible for the micro-transaction future we're heading towards, they're inferior for a digital age, and what better than a solution which costs 1p to anyone, anywhere, happens instantly.

Will it happen in 3yrs :| will it hell :D.
theshadow2001 15th April 2014, 23:46 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gareth Halfacree
Okay, let's pick a longer timescale. PayPal went live in 1999, and was acquired by eBay in 2002. At the time it was acquired, it had 15.4 million registered users.

So: let's shift the timescale out to three years, for any Bitcoin payment processor to hit five million customers. In that time, PayPal went from 24 users to 15.4 million, although again not all of those will have been business customers.

No dice G-man. Your premise is reasonable but I think its incomplete. For example paypal didn't really have to dethrone anyone it filled a void and became associated with a massively popular website. Any new payment system has a lot of work to do before making any sort of nudge into paypal's share.

I'm not taking a stance one way or the other but your terms are still way off a fair bet.
Umbra 16th April 2014, 00:30 Quote
I'm intrigued to see who it will be that emerges as the worlds richest "Bittionaire" in the future, the likes of Murdoch, Branson, Greenspan, these guys don't miss a trick and I would be surprised if they don't get involved with Bitcoin in some way as they have the money to gamble with so if Bitcoin slumps, they hang on to it and when it's value suddenly skyrockets they make a killing.
Gareth Halfacree 16th April 2014, 08:13 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulC2K
I wouldnt take the 3yr bet based on my '#1 payment processor for internet transactions', let alone your heavily slanted 'if it beats a eBay pushing PayPal and its 15yr head start, vs Bitcoin's 5yr and Bitpays 2yrs or so, over the next 3yrs, cos those conditions are stupid, again. A household name vs 'a bit of what?'
I'm not sure you read my proposal properly, or if you did read it you didn't understand it: I'm asking Bitpay, which has already been going for two years, to beat where PayPal was after three years - so the five-year-old Bitpay needs to have bettered the at-the-time three-year-old PayPal, not the now-15-years-old PayPal. That's actually far easier than your original claim of "#1 payment processor for internet transactions," which would require Bitpay to beat PayPal as it is now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulC2K
Will it happen in 3yrs :| will it hell :D.
Okay, name your timescale - I'll take the bet. Ten years? Fifteen? Twenty? Don't worry, I'll stick a reminder in my calendar so I can come back to the thread and pay up if I lose.
Quote:
Originally Posted by theshadow2001
No dice G-man. Your premise is reasonable but I think its incomplete. For example paypal didn't really have to dethrone anyone it filled a void and became associated with a massively popular website.
Sure it had to dethrone someone: traditional credit card processors. You could pay for things over t'net before 1999, y'know.
PaulC2K 16th April 2014, 12:18 Quote
As i explained, even expecting it to beat PayPal adoption from 1999 to 2002, in the same timescale, isnt going to be easy simply because A) PayPal was the first to the scene and made it work, they had little competition going for them which worked for internet transactions for small businesses and regular folks and B) PayPal is a lot easier to get your head around, if someone wants to understand what a bitcoin is, its a rabbit hole of WTF. PayPal worked in fiat and acted more like an online bank account, your £10 stayed £10.

But it'll happen because it needs to happen, and there is no other non-crypto solution which is cost effective for everyone, cheap/cheaper than current options, instant, and can manage micro transactions under all those terms just as it can for £1m.

Im not interested in betting full-stop, theres enough gambling for my tastes in bitcoin as it is. Since when do people need deep pockets to express opinions around here? You seriously want to bet against it so badly you're going to wait 10-20yrs to collect/pay?
Gareth Halfacree 16th April 2014, 13:05 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulC2K
Im not interested in betting full-stop, theres enough gambling for my tastes in bitcoin as it is.
How can it be gambling if you're so sure it's a done deal, and Bitcoin-based systems will become the number one payment processor in the world?
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulC2K
You seriously want to bet against it so badly you're going to wait 10-20yrs to collect/pay?
I couldn't care less whether Bitcoin takes off. PayPal did, so I joined PayPal; if Bitpay does, I'll join Bitpay. Whatever it takes to keep my habit of buying tat over the internet alive!

I was just curious as to how certain you were in your prediction; your post left no margin for error, after all - you clearly stated that Bitcoin-based payment processors will - not may do, not could, not might, but will - become the number one method of paying for goods and services on the internet. If you're not wiling to take a bet which would pay out to a charity of your choice even if Bitcoin doesn't become that big, but simply becomes significantly bigger than it is now, then I guess I have my answer: not very certain at all.
rollo 16th April 2014, 15:57 Quote
10-20 years would be a long time to collect Gareth lol. PayPal is not even the number 1 way of paying things on the Internet after what 14 years or something.

Credit cards are a lot safer due to anti fraud these days.

Bit coin price will need to fully stabilise and not move $50 swings in a day before any of the major companies even consider backing it. And that will take the sort of systems that nobody who wants bit coin to succeed want to see happen.

Assuming amazon apple steam is the 3 biggest online retailers ( no clue if this is true or not we can assume it isn't) none of the 3 accept bit coin not even sure all 3 accept paypal.

Contactless payments is the next big target area for most of the major companies.
Harlequin 16th April 2014, 16:02 Quote
only in the EU

in the usa atitudes to credit cards are a lot more laissez faire - no pin use and not even checking signatures 1/2 the time.
PaulC2K 16th April 2014, 18:20 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gareth Halfacree
How can it be gambling if you're so sure it's a done deal, and Bitcoin-based systems will become the number one payment processor in the world?I couldn't care less whether Bitcoin takes off. PayPal did, so I joined PayPal; if Bitpay does, I'll join Bitpay. Whatever it takes to keep my habit of buying tat over the internet alive!

I was just curious as to how certain you were in your prediction; your post left no margin for error, after all - you clearly stated that Bitcoin-based payment processors will - not may do, not could, not might, but will - become the number one method of paying for goods and services on the internet. If you're not wiling to take a bet which would pay out to a charity of your choice even if Bitcoin doesn't become that big, but simply becomes significantly bigger than it is now, then I guess I have my answer: not very certain at all.

Googling a bit of information to back up what your talking about doesnt make you knowledgeable on the subject, Gareth, and clearly talking to 'retailers' doesnt help you much either with the sweeping assumptions you made.

Bitpay isnt even offering the same service as PayPal, its not targeted to the user, its a business solution. If anything its almost identical to a traditional CC processor. As a UK user, you cant even withdraw fiat to your bank account unless you have £1000 in there. Dont recall PayPal having a similar restriction whereby everything you sold, until it hit £1k it wouldnt auto withdraw it (and you cant manually either) so its hardly comparable to PayPal is it?

Every single bitcoin transaction is comparable to what paypal is, its online only, from 1 persons wallet to another persons wallet. Its not designed for businesses, its designed for anyone to use for large or small transactions.
So in that respect, the fact that it handles millions of payments and over $30m every single day, its almost certainly trumps what PayPal were doing in year 2-3. Heck, PayPal wasnt even available to half of Europe for the first handful of years, let alone less developed countries/continents.

So because i dont want to place a bet against something i have every belief will happen, it means im not that certain it will? Only by betting does it validate my belief?
wow.

Some people are capable of believing in something without needing the urge to bet against it, im surprised you've never experienced this before to be honest.
Gareth Halfacree 16th April 2014, 18:47 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulC2K
Googling a bit of information to back up what your talking about doesnt make you knowledgeable on the subject, Gareth
And nor does blind belief, Paul.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulC2K
Bitpay isnt even offering the same service as PayPal, its not targeted to the user, its a business solution.
Which is why I was comparing to PayPal's business users, not consumers - PayPal has over 130 million of those.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulC2K
Every single bitcoin transaction is comparable to what paypal is, its online only, from 1 persons wallet to another persons wallet.
Eerrr... No. PayPal is extremely user-friendly and comes with guarantees, which have been instrumental in its success; Bitcoin is neither user-friendly nor has any guarantees.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulC2K
So because i dont want to place a bet against something i have every belief will happen, it means im not that certain it will? Only by betting does it validate my belief?
You didn't present it as a belief; you presented it as a cast-iron fact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulC2K
Some people are capable of believing in something without needing the urge to bet against it
Okay; forget the bet. I've put reminders in my diary for the next five years, then five years after that, then five years after that. I'll pop back into this thread each time my diary reminds me and we'll see if Bitcoin has supplanted PayPal and/or traditional payment processors in any meaningful way.

See you in five years!
Big_malc 16th April 2014, 19:45 Quote
What happens if beer becomes the currency of the future your bet could be very expensive in time. :D
Harlequin 16th April 2014, 20:15 Quote
paypal is subject to financial regulation and securities - if a transaction goes wrong you have several legal paths you can go down. the same cannot be said of bitcoin (look at mtgox)
wolfticket 16th April 2014, 20:49 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harlequin
paypal is subject to financial regulation and securities - if a transaction goes wrong you have several legal paths you can go down. the same cannot be said of bitcoin (look at mtgox)
Paypal is more of an intermediary and not comparable.
If Paypal hypothetically accepted bitcoin you could pay with bitcoin via paypal and get all the protection/fees Paypal has to offer.

Bitcoin aspires to be a currency, not a financial service.
If an unregulated, unprotected company collapses and has your £/$/whatever in (effectively) cash form you are no better protected than mtgox users were.
rollo 16th April 2014, 20:53 Quote
Bit coin if it gets those legal paths will be so far from what it was originally created for it won't be worth a lot anyway.

The bulk of people who are pro bit coin have money invested in it. Personally got rid of what bit coin I had when it hit £500 that was enough for me to walk away.

If bit coin was a flat currency that did not go up and down like a crazy yo yo then it would likely have to have the legal stuff put in it.

As it is bit coin is the land of speculators who I thank as they made me a lot of money but it's just that a speculation will it go up or will it go down.
PaulC2K 17th April 2014, 00:22 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gareth Halfacree
And nor does blind belief, Paul.Which is why I was comparing to PayPal's business users, not consumers - PayPal has over 130 million of those. Eerrr... No. PayPal is extremely user-friendly and comes with guarantees, which have been instrumental in its success; Bitcoin is neither user-friendly nor has any guarantees. You didn't present it as a belief; you presented it as a cast-iron fact.Okay; forget the bet. I've put reminders in my diary for the next five years, then five years after that, then five years after that. I'll pop back into this thread each time my diary reminds me and we'll see if Bitcoin has supplanted PayPal and/or traditional payment processors in any meaningful way.

See you in five years!

:D:D

Pretty much the reaction i expected towards a statement with completely selective elements, and about as reasonable as 1 and then an equally generous 3 years for a bet entirely built to your purpose. Congrats on finally being able to put an argument together though, rather than just waffling on about this damn bet you've been desperate for. All that nonsense, and finally you've added something constructive, and only because it was baited out of you.

Had you simply stuck to your job of reporting the story at hand, not elaborated with amusing tales of why theres an uptake in businesses accepting bitcoins as payment, i wouldnt have felt the need to comment to correct you, or express an opinion.

Of course, im now informed it wasnt opinion, again this must be something else i missed upon registering: For any comments made, the intent and meaning behind them will be decided by someone with limited understanding of the matter, and you'll be told your statement isnt worth much unless you're willing to place a bet against it with laughable terms.

A bet we'll forget about... but lets put it into our calendars. Quality.

Its funny though, i'll give you that. Unless of course, its deadly serious? Please advise.
PaulC2K 17th April 2014, 00:59 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by rollo
Bit coin if it gets those legal paths will be so far from what it was originally created for it won't be worth a lot anyway.

The bulk of people who are pro bit coin have money invested in it. Personally got rid of what bit coin I had when it hit £500 that was enough for me to walk away.

If bit coin was a flat currency that did not go up and down like a crazy yo yo then it would likely have to have the legal stuff put in it.

As it is bit coin is the land of speculators who I thank as they made me a lot of money but it's just that a speculation will it go up or will it go down.

Not sure what you mean by legal paths.
Do you mean legal as in a recognised currency or regulation?

There cant really be regulation from a government perspective, but legalisation wouldnt change things, about as far as they're going from a legal standpoint is acknowledging its existence (legalised currency or otherwise) and how they intend to tax those activities. No harm in getting some legal clarification on that, rather than the vagueness where it could be argued in different directions, so nobody really knew where they stood, what was legally acceptable and what wasnt.

You're right on the cost of 'legal stuff' though, where its annoying though is when you really dont need that legal stuff, and yet you've got to pay for it all. Its electronic cash, you hand someone £10 and they get £10, you dont need someone to hold your hand, someone who'll ask for 3.4% or a fixed fee to do that job.

My understanding of coinbase is that its PayPal with bitcoins, though i havent really looked into it but i believe it has those same assurances/protections if you need/desire that peace of mine, and you pay a fee to do so. When you want to send money to a mate overseas, you send it manually. like PP friends & family ('framily' - damn you Sprint!).

Speculating is one aspect, the purchasing of btc with the intention/hope of profiting. I've never bought so much as a single satoshi, made and spent plenty though ;) Its always worth having some btc though, for bitcoins to achieve acceptance and global adoption on any small scale, the value of the currency has to be sufficient enough to handle the financial requirements of its users.

If there is say £100m (MV) worth of btc and the userbase grows to the point where it needs £200m then the qty of coins cant double, the existing coins are in greater demand and that drives the price up accordingly.
It started off as a nothing currency, £3 a pop less than 3yrs ago. Its surpassed Western Union now i believe, but its still fairly small in the grand scheme, but the price had to go up because demand for it went up as adoption went up. As China banned it (twice! great job they're doing too) the price has gone down, demand & adoption went down.
So should adoption get to a place where its fairly commonplace, it gets to anything like PayPal, its going to need more bitcoins or bitcoins have to cost more, and they cant simply make bitcoins beyond what the network was originally designed to allow.
Gareth Halfacree 17th April 2014, 08:08 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulC2K
[snip]
...D'you want to try that post again, 'cos I have no idea what you're trying to say there.
PaulC2K 17th April 2014, 18:32 Quote
it being bitcoin related, would you believe that doesnt surprise me much?
Gareth Halfacree 17th April 2014, 18:42 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulC2K
it being bitcoin related, would you believe that doesnt surprise me much?
You're a funny guy, Paul.
forum_user 18th April 2014, 21:13 Quote
Apologies for not reading the whole thread, but wanted to throw in my own view after reading most of page 1.

I've always looked at BitCoin as the next big boom and bust. I don't trust it, and I don't trust the people who control it. It seems to me that someone invents a scheme, people get excited, the safe investors jump ship long before risking their profits, and the larger and greedier fund managers lose lorry-loads of cash.

It seems the value of a BitCoin is about as guaranteed as a bundle of unlabelled subprimes.
littlepuppi 18th April 2014, 23:52 Quote
Bitcoin is the start of a totally new way of thinking about things... Strip aside what it is as it stands and the type of people that are alleged to be involved with it and it plays to the idea that many people do not trust banks or governments. This mistrust goes right through society and people are looking for alternatives to the current "system". Bitcoin is an alternative and it is gaining traction, it may not end up being the final destination - it almost certainly will not (in its current form) but times are changing, the world is changing and there is a desire for something like bitcoin to succeed from people who have the means to make it happen.
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