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More Windows 8 details leaked

More Windows 8 details leaked

Leaked code suggests that Windows 8 could contain an app store, as well as SMS features.

A new build of Windows 8 that's been leaked online has reportedly revealed a number of interesting features in the new OS, including an app store and SMS technology.

According to Redmond Pie, Windows enthusiast Thomas Hounsell has taken a sneaky look at some of the system files in the latest leaked build (build 7989) of the OS, revealing a number of key features.

The first point of interest is what looks like confirmation of the long-rumoured Windows 8 app store. This is likely to behave similarly to Apple’s app store model, but with one key difference - it looks as though you'll be able to unlock portions of Windows by making purchases in the app store.

This implies that Microsoft may be moving away from the range of SKUs it offered with XP, Vista and Windows 7 in favour of shipping one single version of its OS, which users can then customise by unlocking features via the app store.

Interestingly, the source code also appears to imply that Microsoft is planning to build in geo-location logging. This could enable the company to track a Windows 8 powered machine over time - a feature obviously aimed at tablets and laptops. It will be interesting to see what happens to this feature in the final build of the OS, however, given the privacy furore that surrounded Apple’s acknowledgement that it used similar technology earlier this year.

Finally, there's also a hint that Windows 8 will come with SMS features built in, which would make sense given the operating system's tablet-friendly interface.

Of course, these findings are all based on a leaked copy of an early build of the OS, so it’s worth taking them with a pinch of salt. However, if the rumours are true, it looks as though Microsoft is clearly hoping that its new OS will help it hoover up a sizeable share of the lucrative tablet market.

Can you see yourself using Windows 8 on a tablet? Do you like the idea of unlocking portions of the OS via an app store? Let us know your thoughts in the forums.

78 Comments

Discuss in the forums Reply
Turbobutts 21st June 2011, 13:04 Quote
With every news about Windows 8 I fear that it's more and more of a downstep from prior versions. I mean ... location logging? Buying basic Windows functions? Portable friendliness (may I remind you of what utter failure Ubuntu 11.04 is in comparison to 10.04)? Yeah ... hell no, thanks. Sounds like I'll be staying with Windows 7 for as long as possible.
Aracos 21st June 2011, 13:05 Quote
An app store? For the love of f***ing god, I'm sick of programs now being referred to as "apps". Nevermind the fact that they'll most likely charge for everything. Give me a so called "app store" like ubuntu's or give me one like openSUSE's YAMP and I'll be happy because they'd be useless. To someone like me that doesn't buy programs something like this is useless.
ohdarklord 21st June 2011, 13:10 Quote
I doubt they are moving away from the sku's. Its more likely theta they are allowing people to buy the cheaper sku and unlock the one or two functions that they need from the more expensive sku.

As long as the app store is open for any developer to work with I would be happy.
Paradigm Shifter 21st June 2011, 13:14 Quote
The more I hear about new OSes, the more I begin to wonder why they're trying to make phones equal tablets equal netbooks equal laptops equal desktops... because they're not the same! They're for completely different purposes.

I can see Arch Linux based systems in my future if this continues. And I was pleased when Windows 7 speeded up the rather monotonous process of installing Windows. I suppose I can kiss goodbye to taking an hour to get an almost fully usable system, and look forward to spending two days tweaking everything just to get a desktop and audio working.
ch424 21st June 2011, 13:18 Quote
App stores work out dependencies, automatically install things in the right place, look after each application's data, keep a record of what you've bought and are licensed for, provide a common interface for automatic updates, and save you having to re-type your card details every time you want to buy something. They're basically more convenient and more maintainable than the traditional model of downloading programs in every way. And they don't stop you using the traditional method of getting/installing programs. What's not to like?
DwarfKiller 21st June 2011, 13:22 Quote
With the way this is shaping up I can see a lot of people not moving from W7 and personally, I wouldn't blame them. It's only an early leak so there's still time to convince people of it's improvements.
I'm with storm on the 'app' name being thrown around like penny sweets.
Aracos 21st June 2011, 13:23 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by ch424
App stores work out dependencies, automatically install things in the right place, look after each application's data, keep a record of what you've bought and are licensed for, provide a common interface for automatic updates, and save you having to re-type your card details every time you want to buy something. They're basically more convenient and more maintainable than the traditional model of downloading programs in every way. And they don't stop you using the traditional method of getting/installing programs. What's not to like?

The fact that not all of us believe in paying for programs which would make it useless to people like me, I'd still have to go the traditional route unless they decided to support open source programs on the store.
pimlicosound 21st June 2011, 13:38 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by storm20200
The fact that not all of us believe in paying for programs which would make it useless to people like me

I think the majority of apps on the iOS App Store are free. I see no reason why a Windows 8 app store wouldn't also have loads of free software alongside paid-for software.

But why does paid-for software cause you such grief? I presume you don't hold a similar attitude when you visit a supermarket for your weekly shop. Does software hold no real value for you, or do you just feel entitled to have it all without paying?
Aracos 21st June 2011, 13:46 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by pimlicosound
Quote:
Originally Posted by storm20200
The fact that not all of us believe in paying for programs which would make it useless to people like me

I think the majority of apps on the iOS App Store are free. I see no reason why a Windows 8 app store wouldn't also have loads of free software alongside paid-for software.

But why does paid-for software cause you such grief? I presume you don't hold a similar attitude when you visit a supermarket for your weekly shop. Does software hold no real value for you, or do you just feel entitled to have it all without paying?

Because I'm of the mindset that if I develop a program I would rather the whole world could enjoy it not just those that would choose to pay for it. If I think a piece of software is helpful and I wouldn't want to live without it that's what donating is for. To me the computer is an open platform and it may be a slightly hippy thing to say but I'd like to live in a time where we can all hold hands and share our software :D

EDIT: Also as for why I don't think stuff will be free. I just get this feeling....cause this is microsoft we're dealing with. The same company that only allows people to release one FREE set of DLC and forces developers to charge for the rest. Case in point: L4D.
Woodspoon 21st June 2011, 14:04 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by storm20200
An app store? For the love of f***ing god, I'm sick of programs now being referred to as "apps". Nevermind the fact that they'll most likely charge for everything.

Yup with you on that.
Was talking to someone the other day who asked me if "a programme was like a bigger version of an app", I walked away before the red mist fell.

Looks very much to me like MS is trying to turn Windows into a PC version of iOS which is a bad thing, people know windows, they want to be able to sit down and know how it works without spending ages working stuff out at whatever pc they find themselves at.
Making a big UI change like this is a bad move.
LJF 21st June 2011, 14:06 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by storm20200

The fact that not all of us believe in paying for programs which would make it useless to people like me, I'd still have to go the traditional route unless they decided to support open source programs on the store.

So, you're saying that donating money is the "traditional route" as opposed to one of the foundations of modern civiilsation - the exchange of currency for goods and services?

You're essentially saying software development is not a professional activity? I'm a structural engineer by profession. I don't think i'll be spending my time designing any bridges, with no recompense, in the hope that someone might one day require the construction of it and feel the desire to pay me for the design...

On what planet, exactly, do you reside?
_Metal_Guitar_ 21st June 2011, 14:08 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by storm20200
Quote:
Originally Posted by ch424
App stores work out dependencies, automatically install things in the right place, look after each application's data, keep a record of what you've bought and are licensed for, provide a common interface for automatic updates, and save you having to re-type your card details every time you want to buy something. They're basically more convenient and more maintainable than the traditional model of downloading programs in every way. And they don't stop you using the traditional method of getting/installing programs. What's not to like?

The fact that not all of us believe in paying for programs which would make it useless to people like me, I'd still have to go the traditional route unless they decided to support open source programs on the store.

Who doesn't believe in paying for applications? Why does it seem that everyone expects things for free? People aren't going to put hard work into developing a program so you can download it for free! They shouldn't have too either.
wuyanxu 21st June 2011, 14:14 Quote
well, look at it another way: Steam is a form of app store that have existed since 2003, and people love it, because it allows you to re-download purchased games, allow you to have a simple management interface and it deals with the dependencies (eg, C++ runtime, PhysX plugins)

if this Windows one works similar to every other app store out there (eg. allow redownload, easy to manage, takes care of dependencies) then it can only be a good thing.
r3loaded 21st June 2011, 14:19 Quote
I'm with you on the usage of the word "app". I had a conversation with my dad recently:
Quote:

Dad: What exactly is an app? I keep seeing it thrown around with regard to phones and tablets and stuff.
Me: It's just short for application, or what you'd normally call a program.
Dad: Really? Why the bloody hell don't they just call them programs like we've always done?
Me: Honestly...I have no idea..
Dad: It's probably because of Apple and their shiny marketing for rich dumb people.

:D
tristanperry 21st June 2011, 14:20 Quote
The average Microsoft user will find apps, geo-location features and the ribbon interface to be very cool and trendy; they'll use them a lot and find them easy to use and understand.

Windows 8 will be a big success and widly liked by the average Microsoft user.

One of these sentences is true. ;)
oMonarca 21st June 2011, 14:23 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by wuyanxu
well, look at it another way: Steam is a form of app store that have existed since 2003, and people love it, because it allows you to re-download purchased games, allow you to have a simple management interface and it deals with the dependencies (eg, C++ runtime, PhysX plugins)

if this Windows one works similar to every other app store out there (eg. allow redownload, easy to manage, takes care of dependencies) then it can only be a good thing.

Except that if there's a problem with your connection, more often than not, you'll have trouble getting access to your library.

But if they follow Impulse's(*) model (don't need the gatekeeper to access the stuff you purchased, except for updates), I'd be a happier camper.

(*)Crappier program, but better philosophy.
SlowMotionSuicide 21st June 2011, 14:26 Quote
They could put DirectX driver packages as purchasable downloads, too. Better yet, make it a monthly fee à la xbox live. DX11 access for premium account only;-)
Shayper09 21st June 2011, 14:39 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by tristanperry
The average Microsoft user will find apps, geo-location features and the ribbon interface to be very cool and trendy; they'll use them a lot and find them easy to use and understand.

Windows 8 will be a big success and widly liked by the average Microsoft user.

One of these sentences is true. ;)

Unfortunately they're probably both true...
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowMotionSuicide
They could put DirectX driver packages as purchasable downloads, too. Better yet, make it a monthly fee à la xbox live. DX11 access for premium account only;-)

Sorry, but what the f*ck are you smoking?
Bauul 21st June 2011, 14:41 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by tristanperry
The average Microsoft user will find apps, geo-location features and the ribbon interface to be very cool and trendy; they'll use them a lot and find them easy to use and understand.

Windows 8 will be a big success and widly liked by the average Microsoft user.

One of these sentences is true. ;)

Am I the only person here who things the customisable ribbon interface is a million times easier than endless bloody menus?

I'm not against a W8 app-type store. Something like a built in version of Steam I can see working rather well - it works for games, so why not for more serious programs?

In fact isn't Windows Update already built into W7 now? I imagine they could expand that quite easily to accomodate a virtual library.
sotu1 21st June 2011, 14:54 Quote
I like the way windows is going. Covergence is key for the future and they see that.
Guinevere 21st June 2011, 14:55 Quote
First up, what's wrong with calling an application or program an app? It's been in use for decades and I don't care if more people start using it.

You know what a car is right? A PC? Or a TV? A mobile? A phone? A cinema? They're all shortened versions that have taken over from a longer original, there's thousands of words like this.

App just one more to add to the pile. (So don't give apple the exclusive right to the name)
CraigWatson 21st June 2011, 15:04 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by _Metal_Guitar_
Who doesn't believe in paying for applications? Why does it seem that everyone expects things for free? People aren't going to put hard work into developing a program so you can download it for free! They shouldn't have too either.

Disclaimer: I am a FOSS advocate and a financial contributor to the Free Software Foundation

"Free" software doesn't necessarily mean just "zero cost". I never pay for software. I use Free, Open Source (herefter FOSS) programs like Firefox (web), Thunderbird (email), VirtualBox (virtualisation), GIMP (image editing), OpenOffice (office suite), InfraRecorder (disc burning), VLC (media player), Phatch (photo batch processor), the list goes on.

All of the programs I mentioned are free as in cost and free as in freedom - you can download the source, modify it and redistribute it if you so wish - there's no restrictive licensing, and you can use it for whatever purpose, be it personal or commercial (conversely, many "free" proprietary/closed source programs have terms in their licensing restricting commercial use - VirtualBox used to use this and still does for their Extensions Pack).

Millions of developers around the world write code for FOSS projects. I personally run my own project and actively encourage people to do the same. I honestly only buy a paid program when there are no free alternatives.

I also use free/closed programs, like Avast, CCleaner and Defraggler, because they're decent and they do the job, so I see no need at all to buy into software I don't need. You can get so much for free, why spend hard-earned money when you don't have to? I'm not a cheapskate, just realistic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LJF
You're essentially saying software development is not a professional activity?

Try telling that to Novell/Red Hat/Canonical (three big players in FOSS).
Quote:
Originally Posted by LJF
On what planet, exactly, do you reside?

Same planet, different ideologies. Go read some stuff before you start alienating people for what they believe.

/me steps down from soapbox
leveller 21st June 2011, 15:20 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by storm20200
Because I'm of the mindset that if I develop a program I would rather the whole world could enjoy it not just those that would choose to pay for it. If I think a piece of software is helpful and I wouldn't want to live without it that's what donating is for. To me the computer is an open platform and it may be a slightly hippy thing to say but I'd like to live in a time where we can all hold hands and share our software :D

EDIT: Also as for why I don't think stuff will be free. I just get this feeling....cause this is microsoft we're dealing with. The same company that only allows people to release one FREE set of DLC and forces developers to charge for the rest. Case in point: L4D.

Ok ... little lesson in how app stores work. You get tonnes of stuff for free and other apps you can pay for if you want to. I hope that clears up your complete paranoia problem.
CraigWatson 21st June 2011, 15:21 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by leveller
Ok ... little lesson in how app stores work. You get tonnes of stuff for free and other apps you can pay for if you want to. I hope that clears up your complete paranoia problem.

Think storm was referring to downloading of source code as well as the compiled binaries - aka "open source" (see links above).
leveller 21st June 2011, 15:31 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by CraigWatson
Think storm was referring to downloading of source code as well as the compiled binaries - aka "open source" (see links above).

Refer you to posts #2 #7 and #9, collectively give me the impression he thinks MS, Apple, Google are trying to use apps to control his brain ... or something.

The one thing Windows machines have lacked is a central online store that can be completely trusted, to obtain Windows compatible software - regardless of cost. ie. someone new to Windows might be reluctant to part with cash for Fraps because the guy that owns Fraps makes a great app but his website looks geocities-alike. A proper store frontage for Win machines is a great move.

Now all I want is cross-machine app purchasing (like Steamplay) so I don't have to repeat buy software.
Woodspoon 21st June 2011, 15:42 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guinevere
First up, what's wrong with calling an application or program an app? It's been in use for decades and I don't care if more people start using it.

You know what a car is right? A PC? Or a TV? A mobile? A phone? A cinema? They're all shortened versions that have taken over from a longer original, there's thousands of words like this.

App just one more to add to the pile. (So don't give apple the exclusive right to the name)

Just to be picky but a car is actually an automobile and the UK is one of the few countries that refers to mobile phones as mobiles, the general term is cellular phone or cell.

As for "app", I don't like it because it stinks of trendy and dumbing down, it's only really started being used since the creation of iTunes app store, after which trendy types would bleat on about having an app for this or an app for that thinking it was something special and not knowing that an app is just a program.
Since then everything has had to have an app or an app store just so they could be seen to be part of the trendy app crowd because their too bloody stupid to realize that its just a program.

But hey that's just my view and I'm an argumentative old git.
LeMaltor 21st June 2011, 15:45 Quote
We haven't had 7 for that long and now we're on 8 :S
Bauul 21st June 2011, 15:54 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodspoon
Just to be picky but a car is actually an automobile and the UK is one of the few countries that refers to mobile phones as mobiles, the general term is cellular phone or cell.

Really? I always thought it literally just America and Canada that called them cell phones.

As far as I know, every other English speaking country calls them Mobile Phones.

Indeed, try searching the "cell phone" in Wikipedia and see how far you get.
Snips 21st June 2011, 16:01 Quote
Jesus, when did the Linux brigade turn up?

Been quiet these few months with Windows 7 being so popular and you having nothing to moan about.

Same ol' same ol' hey?
CraigWatson 21st June 2011, 16:31 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snips
Jesus, when did the Linux brigade turn up?

Been quiet these few months with Windows 7 being so popular and you having nothing to moan about.

Same ol' same ol' hey?

Tbh I'm far from anti-Windows, even though I heavily subscribe to the Free Software ideology. My home PC dual-boots Win7/Linux, and my MacBook also dual-boots OSX/Linux. We also heavily use Windows (HR/finance/sales) and Linux (developers) at work so I'm equally at home using and supporting all O/Ses.

I was merely responding to a message that _Metal_Guitar_ posted regarding free software and stated that people do actually use free software (both "zero cost" and "as in freedom"). It's nothing to do with Linux vs Windows.

The point regarding a Windows app store supporting source code as well as binary downloads is also a valid on-topic subject. I'd love to see Firefox/Thunderbird/VLC etc up on a Windows App Store. Don't think it'll happen but I'd still love it.

If people want to put up an imaginary divide and call people "Linux users" and "Windows users", it's up to them, but personally I'm a "computer user with a preference for Linux".
wuyanxu 21st June 2011, 16:32 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bauul
Really? I always thought it literally just America and Canada that called them cell phones.

As far as I know, every other English speaking country calls them Mobile Phones.

Indeed, try searching the "cell phone" in Wikipedia and see how far you get.
search Movie in wiki also returns Film. however, only UK calls it film.
interestingly, search Colour gets redirected to color.
conclusion: wiki cannot be trusted.

but i do agree with you, only USA and Canada calls their mobile phone cell phones.
coolius 21st June 2011, 16:41 Quote
bobwya 21st June 2011, 18:19 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bauul

Am I the only person here who things the customisable ribbon interface is a million times easier than endless bloody menus?

Uhmm yes. If it ain't broke... don't fix it.
OCJunkie 21st June 2011, 18:20 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by storm20200
An app store? For the love of f***ing god, I'm sick of programs now being referred to as "apps". Nevermind the fact that they'll most likely charge for everything.
Amen.
This is just M$ sucking Apple's arseholes. That way they can get away with releasing nothing but a single barebones version, and then charging for every single little missing feature seperately, squeezing every last penny out of it.

Still can't wrap my head around why they started trying to treat PC's like a giant smartphone or tablet all of a sudden. If that's the direction things are really headed then we're all totally scrwed. Kinda like the disco era but for computers--a few years later everyone will be looking back and saying "Uh, WTF we were thinking...?"
leveller 21st June 2011, 18:26 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by OCJunkie
Still can't wrap my head around why they started trying to treat PC's like a giant smartphone or tablet all of a sudden. If that's the direction things are really headed then we're all totally scrwed. Kinda like the disco era but for computers--a few years later everyone will be looking back and saying "Uh, WTF we were thinking...?"

saying "Uh, WTF we were thinking...?" ... while sitting in their auto-piloted flying car, chewing enhanced-flavour meal tablets, and swiping their hands in the air to control their projected hologram history book.

impar 21st June 2011, 18:29 Quote
Greetings!
Quote:
Originally Posted by _Metal_Guitar_
Who doesn't believe in paying for applications? Why does it seem that everyone expects things for free?
I do.
Only pay for Windows and games, all other programs are either free or open source, dont pirate.
Do send some money to the developers sometimes.
PCBuilderSven 21st June 2011, 19:00 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by CraigWatson
Quote:
Originally Posted by _Metal_Guitar_
Who doesn't believe in paying for applications? Why does it seem that everyone expects things for free? People aren't going to put hard work into developing a program so you can download it for free! They shouldn't have too either.

Disclaimer: I am a FOSS advocate and a financial contributor to the Free Software Foundation

"Free" software doesn't necessarily mean just "zero cost". I never pay for software. I use Free, Open Source (herefter FOSS) programs like Firefox (web), Thunderbird (email), VirtualBox (virtualisation), GIMP (image editing), OpenOffice (office suite), InfraRecorder (disc burning), VLC (media player), Phatch (photo batch processor), the list goes on.

All of the programs I mentioned are free as in cost and free as in freedom - you can download the source, modify it and redistribute it if you so wish - there's no restrictive licensing, and you can use it for whatever purpose, be it personal or commercial (conversely, many "free" proprietary/closed source programs have terms in their licensing restricting commercial use - VirtualBox used to use this and still does for their Extensions Pack).

Millions of developers around the world write code for FOSS projects. I personally run my own project and actively encourage people to do the same. I honestly only buy a paid program when there are no free alternatives.

I also use free/closed programs, like Avast, CCleaner and Defraggler, because they're decent and they do the job, so I see no need at all to buy into software I don't need. You can get so much for free, why spend hard-earned money when you don't have to? I'm not a cheapskate, just realistic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LJF
You're essentially saying software development is not a professional activity?

Try telling that to Novell/Red Hat/Canonical (three big players in FOSS).
Quote:
Originally Posted by LJF
On what planet, exactly, do you reside?

Same planet, different ideologies. Go read some stuff before you start alienating people for what they believe.

/me steps down from soapbox

Couldn't agree more. Only thing I still use Windows for is Games.
Eiffie 21st June 2011, 19:14 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by sotu1
I like the way windows is going. Covergence is key for the future and they see that.

That sounds way too much like the last level of Dead Space 2. . . Convergence is at hand!!!!
GeorgeStorm 21st June 2011, 19:19 Quote
I'm liking Linux more and more, laptop is now soley Linux, only thing Windows really does better is games as far as I'm aware. And defo am wondering more and more why people pay for stuff thats freely available??
Really not liking Windows 8 so far, trying to make a 1 OS to fit them all, sure this kinda thing would work on a tablet/phone/touch screen monitor, but I don't like the way they seemed to have just dumbed it all down for general desktop use, the current menu system works fine as far as I'm aware?
SexyHyde 21st June 2011, 20:00 Quote
As long as your not forced to use it what is the problem. My pc is mainly for playing games so I probably won't use an app store for much, if anything. My laptop runs Linux (ubuntu) and it has a centralized download centre which is essentially an app store but doesn't look too appealing to the eye, but its good at what it does. It should be a good thing really as I've spent more time in my life uninstalling and repairing computers due to people downloading spyware/malware/virui from shady websites or misleading links hopefully an app store of sorts would help reduce this happening. Really though it all depends on how its implemented but we need more info.
NeilJM 21st June 2011, 20:03 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodspoon
Just to be picky but a car is actually an automobile and the UK is one of the few countries that refers to mobile phones as mobiles, the general term is cellular phone or cell.

...exactly?

Mobile telephone -> Mobile/Phone.
Horseless Carriage -> Car.

Cellular telephone -> Cell/Phone
Automobile -> Auto.

When was the last time someone told you not to use your cellular telephone whilst in the automobile?

(Aside - UK/Aus go for mobile, US/Canada for cell... any SA, NZ or others around, just for curiosity's sake?)
thil 21st June 2011, 20:06 Quote
The problem with this is that Windows only does well when it doesn't try to do much at all. All MS's best OSes (say, XP and Win 7,) were simple, minimalist foundations that let the users put what they want on their and do what they want with it.

All the people who like having their computers telling them what to do - rather than the computer doing what users *want* - moved onto Apple long ago. And those guys ain't likely to switch back to Windows, not with the Kool-Aid coursing through their kidneys.

Give me a decent foundation, MS, and I'll take it from their. Don't piss about with app crap.

Besides, copying Apple's audio system worked *so well* for MS, didn't it? All those engineers left the bitten fruit in droves to come back over...
Sloth 21st June 2011, 20:46 Quote
Can't say I'm against an app store. The "app" term is very annoying, yes, but that's just a superficial complaint. The actual meat isn't so bad. Imagine a world where Steam not only has games but other useful programs such as image editing programs, browsers, spreadsheet programs, 3D modeling programs and more, and likely has plenty of free options despite being called a "store". That's basically what Microsoft is offering.

Going back to the "app" term, it would be fine if it really was just an abbreviation of "application". Sadly, it's gained a different connotation: A program or application is a big confusing PC thing, an "app" is a small, easy to use tool which is cheap and downloadable and serves a specific function, such as finding restaurants in your area or playing a simple game (Angry Birds, anyone?). My biggest concern would be such a mentality poluting a PC "app" store with trivial programs more suited to phones.
Waynio 21st June 2011, 22:00 Quote
Windows 8 sounds like it will need a massive load of tweaking after installation, I'm quite sure win 7 could keep everyone going until at least 2013 also, I'm just not impressed after win 7 being such a good home OS, win8 sounds much worse than vista ever were vista needed some tweaking to get it to win xp/7 stability/performance standard, I even had to apply some tweaks to win 7 to get it to my liking but pretty simple ones that were just little visual aspects so not as much hassle & just glad MS left hidden options for keeping things familiar so if they keep up with that then no big problem but if they completely remove the hidden options by tweaks then I'll have to consider switching to linux or even quitting computers & do something better in life.

I don't like IE9 with it's lack of a fixed search box & bad download management, big come down from IE8 big enough to finally make me go to a different browser, seems MS like to botch good functions.

Oh yeah an app store doesn't bother me neither, been calling programs apps for way longer than the mobile market has :D.
tcool93 21st June 2011, 23:33 Quote
I'm sick of "apps" also. I don't want this with Windows. Its become a way for companies to nickle and dime you to death... just like the airlines do anymore, and even the so called "free to play" online games that really are not free.

Also, I'm sure not everyone uses Windows with online access.

The tracking spyware is also not wanted.
Waynio 22nd June 2011, 00:08 Quote
I honestly don't get how the word apps bugs people other than apple making it a more widely used word as if they came up with the word like the short expression I'm about to do lmao :D.

Been a pc user since I think windows 98 which was horribly bugged out :D & I called programs apps very shortly after so yeah a long long time before apple used it for marketing :) & anyway if that's some peoples main problem with the new windows then I think you won't be bothered by it's more unlikable bits.

A word is not a problem, cutting off some classic functionality is for those who are speedy computer operators & know how to use it.
Aracos 22nd June 2011, 00:50 Quote
I sense a long post so better get started:
Quote:
Originally Posted by LJF
1. So, you're saying that donating money is the "traditional route" as opposed to one of the foundations of modern civiilsation - the exchange of currency for goods and services?

2. You're essentially saying software development is not a professional activity? I'm a structural engineer by profession. 3. I don't think i'll be spending my time designing any bridges, with no recompense, in the hope that someone might one day require the construction of it and feel the desire to pay me for the design...

On what planet, exactly, do you reside?

1. Please read the thread and you'll see ch424 said "And they don't stop you using the traditional method of getting/installing programs. What's not to like?". Now read it carefully, have you read it? Good. So you'll understand I was referring to the traditional route of going to the program/developers website and downloading the software then installing it manually. Glad we could clear that up.

2. Where did I even mention that software development is not a professional activity? How ironic would it be for me to think that considering I'm going to do a software development course at college.

3. Are you also implying that if you knew how to create the best bridge in the world, something that would be revolutionary in the world of bridges, you wouldn't because people don't require it and therefore you wouldn't get paid? That seems very selfish quite frankly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by _Metal_Guitar_
Who doesn't believe in paying for applications? 1. Why does it seem that everyone expects things for free? 2. People aren't going to put hard work into developing a program so you can download it for free! They shouldn't have too either.

1. Not once did I say I expect software for free, for example I don't walk up to adobe and say "I want to use photoshop, make it free because I said so", I use GIMP instead. I'm saying I believe in free open source software which I think you'll find millions of people also believe in.

2. This is an interesting point and really shows your ignorance, type "sourceforge" into google and click the first result, I think you'll be very enlightened about how wrong you are. As an example at time of posting sourceforge today alone has had 4,012,374 downloads..
Quote:
Originally Posted by leveller
Ok ... little lesson in how app stores work. You get tonnes of stuff for free and other apps you can pay for if you want to. I hope that clears up your complete paranoia problem.

As I mentioned before, this is microsoft we're dealing with. From my experience with xbox live and Valves words Microsoft make developers charge for DLC and will every now and then let a free DLC pack go through. I just get worried that MS will bring the same mindset of forcing developers to charge a fee for the use of their service, however small it may be.

And to CraigWatson I wasn't thinking that at the time but the having the source code of the programs accessibly through it is a brilliant feature. I was mainly refering to software packages that allowed you to install a multitude of programs, usually something for anything you want to do but all being 100% free.
leveller 22nd June 2011, 06:35 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by storm20200
As I mentioned before, this is microsoft we're dealing with. From my experience with xbox live and Valves words Microsoft make developers charge for DLC and will every now and then let a free DLC pack go through. I just get worried that MS will bring the same mindset of forcing developers to charge a fee for the use of their service, however small it may be.

You've completely forgotten they will be competing directly with Apple and Google, and less so with Linux. All of the other services you can currently use offer more FREE stuff than you would know what to do with.

Relax! ;)
weeman1985 22nd June 2011, 07:09 Quote
Forgive me if I'm being ignorant but I do have one question to ask:

If everything is free, how does the developer earn money for food?

It is a genuine question and not a troll, I really am interested in knowing how these guys survive. I use free to download programs myself, and have given donations in the past, but I still can't see how someone can survive long-term if there is no money exchange, unless they resort to advertising banners everywhere. I am not against free software in the same way I am not against paid software. If a program offers you a function you desire then you put the value on that yourself, whether that is nothing or $$$. It's always your choice.
Boogle 22nd June 2011, 09:42 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by LJF
So, you're saying that donating money is the "traditional route" as opposed to one of the foundations of modern civiilsation - the exchange of currency for goods and services?

You're essentially saying software development is not a professional activity? I'm a structural engineer by profession. I don't think i'll be spending my time designing any bridges, with no recompense, in the hope that someone might one day require the construction of it and feel the desire to pay me for the design...

On what planet, exactly, do you reside?

I wish more people felt like this. The whole 'free software' is having a scary ripple effect throughout the industry. I'm a professional web & app developer, and clients are increasingly expecting the Earth for minimal outlay. Large companies still realise you have to pay for the developer's time to get something worthwhile back. But small business and joe public seem to be increasingly of the belief that making a large-scale app is like building with lego, takes no time and should rival anything the corporations output. Then there are the other clients who believe their app idea is the next big thing, and will 'offer' to let you build it (for free) for a small cut of the profits.

I like opensource, I like the ideal. But the problem is it is effectively devaluing all of software development. Android in particular has a community where people refuse to pay money for apps.
Boogle 22nd June 2011, 09:45 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by weeman1985
Forgive me if I'm being ignorant but I do have one question to ask:

If everything is free, how does the developer earn money for food?

They don't.

Most have other jobs (or no job) and make the free stuff in their spare time.
Paulg1971 22nd June 2011, 10:28 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by r3loaded
I'm with you on the usage of the word "app". I had a conversation with my dad recently:
Quote:

Dad: What exactly is an app? I keep seeing it thrown around with regard to phones and tablets and stuff.
Me: It's just short for application, or what you'd normally call a program.
Dad: Really? Why the bloody hell don't they just call them programs like we've always done?
Me: Honestly...I have no idea..
Dad: It's probably because of Apple and their shiny marketing for rich dumb people.

:D

like this a lot.
Paulg1971 22nd June 2011, 10:35 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by weeman1985
Forgive me if I'm being ignorant but I do have one question to ask:

If everything is free, how does the developer earn money for food?

It is a genuine question and not a troll, I really am interested in knowing how these guys survive. I use free to download programs myself, and have given donations in the past, but I still can't see how someone can survive long-term if there is no money exchange, unless they resort to advertising banners everywhere. I am not against free software in the same way I am not against paid software. If a program offers you a function you desire then you put the value on that yourself, whether that is nothing or $$$. It's always your choice.

I may be wrong with this, but i see this in a similar vein to the music industry with bands,there are hundreds of bands out there touring the small gigs/pubs without getting much money for their efforts and they have a small hope they get noticed to get signed up to a big label. A lot of programmer may be doing this by getting their programs(won't call them apps) out for free in the hope someone big will notice and start paying them for their stuff.
Just my theory
Andy Mc 22nd June 2011, 10:37 Quote
FFS. I'm sick of all this "app on the desktop" rubbish. Can steam hurry up and get linux support please now?
jrs77 22nd June 2011, 11:00 Quote
Let's see...

I'm a professional graphics designer, I use my machine to do actual work using Adobe CS, office, browsers and some other tools.
I do play a game now and then, but that doesn't change anything actually.

Win8 doesn't exactly sound like the OS I'm looking for in the future with all these features aiming at the multi-media consumers and gimmicky people. All these "cool" features are rather useless for a productivity environment.
I want an OS as simple, sleek and safe as possible, and if Adobe would develop a Linux-version of their Creative Suite then I'd switch to ubuntu in a heartbeat actually. I'm currently running ubuntu 10.04 on my other machines (HTPC and office-PC) and it seems that I need to look for another distributor of Linux in the future as this new 11.xx crap is aswell headed in the wrong direction for my taste.

It's a shame that the OS developers don't think about the power-users anymore but only develop stuff for the people who use their PCs for communication and multimedia.
brave758 22nd June 2011, 11:13 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrs77

It's a shame that the OS developers don't think about the power-users anymore but only develop stuff for the people who use their PCs for communication and multimedia.

Too true.
leveller 22nd June 2011, 14:15 Quote
You guys don't think Win8 will come in different flavours?

Really?
Unknownsock 22nd June 2011, 14:25 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrs77
It's a shame that the OS developers don't think about the power-users anymore but only develop stuff for the people who use their PCs for communication and multimedia.

But power users will tweak the OS to their liking, whilst the casual user will not.
Whats the problem?
Woodlauncher 22nd June 2011, 14:45 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodspoon

Making a big UI change like this is a bad move.

What? They haven't changed it much at all!

And I don't get all the negativity on here, application stores is the new big thing it seems. You aren't required to use it so what's the problem?
Snips 22nd June 2011, 14:51 Quote
Best use of the word "app" I've seen.

Horny?......I've got an app for that!
Aracos 22nd June 2011, 15:14 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by leveller
Quote:
Originally Posted by storm20200
As I mentioned before, this is microsoft we're dealing with. From my experience with xbox live and Valves words Microsoft make developers charge for DLC and will every now and then let a free DLC pack go through. I just get worried that MS will bring the same mindset of forcing developers to charge a fee for the use of their service, however small it may be.

You've completely forgotten they will be competing directly with Apple and Google, and less so with Linux. All of the other services you can currently use offer more FREE stuff than you would know what to do with.

Relax! ;)

Yeah but who has the biggest market share? :D
fingerbob69 22nd June 2011, 15:53 Quote
Is it possible that there'll be a version of win8 for the mobile/tablet/shiny california types and then a "traditional" desktop version, without all the shiny crap ...much like win7 is now?

If I wanted an OS where the use of the word 'app' was de riguré I would have an Apple device of some description already. I do not.
RichCreedy 22nd June 2011, 16:30 Quote
app is mearly a shortening of the word application, all the programs you run now are considered applications, or app's, does anyone really care if its called an app store, what would you like instead, prog store? doesn't really have the same ring does it.
Phil Rhodes 22nd June 2011, 16:51 Quote
Looks like the front end of windows mobile running on top of windows 7.

No news for people who actually do real work on computers, then. Just more toys for mono-neuroned morons with mugtome accounts.
impar 22nd June 2011, 16:57 Quote
Greetings!
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichCreedy
... what would you like instead, prog store?
Prog depot. Prog shop.
BlackRaven 22nd June 2011, 19:51 Quote
Well here we go again with this Windows marketplace. I can tell you know that this will be a big money maker for MS if it takes off. Personally I hate the previous info we had of win8 and now I like it even less.
Sloth 22nd June 2011, 21:36 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by impar
Greetings!

Prog depot. Prog shop.
Jeremiah was a bullprog. It's Prog Night at the high school. I'm a progessional in my field. Don't look at prog at work. Better work on that progect. These puns are the progeny of my boredom.
slothy89 23rd June 2011, 01:39 Quote
Personally I see windows 7 becoming the next XP. Sticking around well after M$ have moved on with their shiney new system.

Personally I have no need for anything extra out of my OS. I'd happily use windows 7 until I am old and frail.

Note: I'm currently 22
thil 23rd June 2011, 09:00 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by impar
Greetings!
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichCreedy
... what would you like instead, prog store?
Prog depot. Prog shop.

Is that where one purchases songs that go for more than ten minutes, change time signature fifteen times, key seven times, and probably involve a both a panflute, a synthesised didgeridoo, and are part of albums that have themes?
Aracos 23rd June 2011, 14:35 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by thil
Quote:
Originally Posted by impar
Greetings!
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichCreedy
... what would you like instead, prog store?
Prog depot. Prog shop.

Is that where one purchases songs that go for more than ten minutes, change time signature fifteen times, key seven times, and probably involve a both a panflute, a synthesised didgeridoo, and are part of albums that have themes?

Can't beat prog songs :D
Bauul 23rd June 2011, 15:21 Quote
I like the idea of a prog store.

It'd take twenty eight minutes to find a programme, and they're all arranged in a way that tells an epic tail of love, betrayal and blue screens of death.
Panos 23rd June 2011, 22:15 Quote
Before even the release of W7 MS (2008) said that it will be the last of the traditional OS distribution, and they will move to modular pay by use and monthly subscriptions. They did it with a version of Office, nothing stops them to implement it in windows. If it wasn't for games, not many people could benefit from using Windows nowadays.

As about ideas about prog stores etc, they exist in Linux for donkey years. Especially Ubuntu has one since almost day one. And free.
Denis_iii 24th June 2011, 13:32 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by storm20200
An app store? For the love of f***ing god, I'm sick of programs now being referred to as "apps". Nevermind the fact that they'll most likely charge for everything. Give me a so called "app store" like ubuntu's or give me one like openSUSE's YAMP and I'll be happy because they'd be useless. To someone like me that doesn't buy programs something like this is useless.

I'd prefer everyday users have access to an APP store with applications that have been confirmed malware free and known to be good then the current situation of them downloading and installing whatever. O the headaches of IT support for work and family!
Denis_iii 24th June 2011, 13:35 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbobutts
With every news about Windows 8 I fear that it's more and more of a downstep from prior versions. I mean ... location logging? Buying basic Windows functions? Portable friendliness (may I remind you of what utter failure Ubuntu 11.04 is in comparison to 10.04)? Yeah ... hell no, thanks. Sounds like I'll be staying with Windows 7 for as long as possible.

I'd prefer Microsoft to release only ONE version of Windows and then purchase OS addins then the current 9+- Windows 7 versions which I can't stand.
Also, if they can this route I can see them releasing Windows 8 low end 3rd world knocked down version for free thus reducing piracy and increasing footprint.
I do hope to take advantage of location based services on my Win 8 tablet so what is the issue there? You don't want it, turn it off. Microsoft isn't apple and has never screwed its users like they have on the OS and Mobile front.
Lazarus Dark 26th June 2011, 02:57 Quote
Actually, here in the middle of big ole' America, everyone I know over 40 calls a cellular phone a "cell phone" or "mobile phone". But everyone I know 30 and under refers to a cell phone as a "phone", period. We call corded phones "landlines", usually while spitting in disgust (whereas, the old folks call corded phones just "phones".) Landlines are nearly obsolete for personal use (they still make sense for buisiness use though).

I don't understand why anyone has a problem with "app". I've heard it used before, on occasion, for years, long before the iPhone.

I for one think an app store for windows is a fantastic idea. Think about all the long-distance family tech support you do. My mother is two hours away, when she needs to install something I have to talk her through over the phone, and she gets nervous about downloading things from websites. Imagine having an app store she can trust, all she has to do is click on it and it installs. And lets face it, the current method on Windows has been a mess for decades. Just letting programs install whatever they want wherever they want? I would much prefer apps that have to install all thier dll's, files, whatever exactly where they are told, and the app store can see all of that, then when it comes time to uninstall, the app store knows exactly every file to delete without leaving all the garbage behind.

Then again, Android already does all this... if I can just get more advanced games or Steam on Android, I will finally have no use for Windows ever again...
Waynio 26th June 2011, 17:04 Quote
The new windows will be great for newbs of all ages, although it won't surprise me to get calls still from mates or family :D I think it's those of us who don't rely on official tech support & just help each other on forums who are irritated by the first impressions look of it but they only showed us that part of it so many got a slight overwhelming feeling of "WTF have they done to it" lol, with it looking overly simplified & showing lack of keyboard mouse usage like they turned windows into a console just for the sake of making it look new, I think it's just a very bad introduction to the new windows I think but good to people who like things simple (really simple when we all know an OS isn't) don't get me wrong simple is very often great, it would be nice to not need be the tech guy when they need help :D I've always got better things to do really :).

An app store is a great addition as like Lazarus said there are many people very unsure about what is safe, I think MS will charge top whack prices though for the convenience :).

Only reason I keep up with newer versions of windows is so I have all the new updates that make it more stable, vista was nice once tweaked but still had a little instability so sure wasn't good straight out of the box but the only time I've suffered any BSOD on win 7 is with a bad overclock or faulty hardware so win 7 is quite the perfected version of windows imo so would be nice to keep on with it for a couple extra years at least without being held back by certain features like directx, light hearted security fixes & what not, it was also quite expensive unless you caught 1 of the decent pre-order deals which I did but purely by chance, it's bad enough keeping up with the hardware costs so thinking of regular windows releases isn't very good neither although if they keep it so win 7 users keep getting important updates including directx I'll possibly skip win 8 if possible, depends on if it offers me something win 7 doesn't which I'd actually use.

Things I like about win 7

Snipping tool - lovely little app that saves me time without the need to crop.
It went through a heavy mass beta testing before it went retail & it proved to be an excellent move by MS, only BSOD I've had with it was when hardware is faulty or badly tweaked or duff drivers.
Some nice features in games on dx11.
Tweaks to keep on with an old style toolbar while having an up to date windows, so some tweaks let me have the nice look of the new windows but with all the functionality of old, it's flipping great, faster than me & very functional.
Quite a lot of other things that don't spring to mind :).

Things I don't like
The green bar of nothingness in folders with a load of media in is still in win 7 as it were in vista, but I tweaked it so I don't have that problem & everything is instant with the reg tweaks.
Internet explorer 9 although this came along during win 7's life time - I miss the search box massively as it kept what it was you were looking for so was very useful & don't like the 1 box for all especially when it picks things it thinks I want, it has been wrong every time AI=artificial dumbass imo :D not miles off the mark but still nowhere near accurate enough, I don't want to install 3rd part stuff just to get that simple search box back, I tweaked it so it doesn't do this but it came back to annoy me lol.
A few other things that don't spring to mind :).

I think that is all really :) so I think that sums up why I don't feel a need for a new OS yet, I'd say it's just MS wanting more money which I understand perfectly, they gotta make money.

But the features they have shown don't justify a new OS for me, not by a long way, just too soon after win 7 imo really but I'd see things clearer when they show what extras it can do for those of us who aren't total newbs :).
Xir 27th June 2011, 14:53 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bauul
Really? I always thought it literally just America and Canada that called them cell phones.
As far as I know, every other English speaking country calls them Mobile Phones.
Germany and the Netherlands aren't exactly native english country's but...

The dutch word for a mobile phone is a mobile. ("Mobiel" or "Mobieltje")
German's actually invented a nice, english sounding :D word that nobody else uses: "Handy"
Swiss used "Natel" for a long time, I think this was the company to first introduce mobiles?
Quote:
Originally Posted by wuyanxu
search Movie in wiki also returns Film. however, only UK calls it film.
Nope...Dutch and Germans as well :D
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazarus Dark
Just letting programs install whatever they want wherever they want? I would much prefer apps that have to install all thier dll's, files, whatever exactly where they are told, and the app store can see all of that, then when it comes time to uninstall, the app store knows exactly every file to delete without leaving all the garbage behind.

The task you're quoting is the OS's task, not the App-stores. The OS should know where it installed something. ;)
Also you realize this is windows default...
Install everything in C:/Programme's/
Current windows lets you change this.
You ask for it to be not changeable.
So you want to clutter your fast C: drive with 200GB worth of games?)
Copy all pictures to C:/Documents... 500GB of pictures on my bootdrive pleassse? :D
jhfire 11th October 2011, 01:46 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aracos
Because I'm of the mindset that if I develop a program I would rather the whole world could enjoy it not just those that would choose to pay for it. If I think a piece of software is helpful and I wouldn't want to live without it that's what donating is for. To me the computer is an open platform and it may be a slightly hippy thing to say but I'd like to live in a time where we can all hold hands and share our software :D

EDIT: Also as for why I don't think stuff will be free. I just get this feeling....cause this is microsoft we're dealing with. The same company that only allows people to release one FREE set of DLC and forces developers to charge for the rest. Case in point: L4D.

I develop software and sell it for $20 a pop. I get a great amount of money from doing this. I spend this money on food, rent, bills, and alchole. There was a time where I thought the same thing you did, until I started having a life. I also started getting leechers who would not say thanks, even though 500 people downloaded it I would get about 20 thanks and not even a $1 donation. It wasn't that it wasn't that great, it was just the fact people really don't care and are greedy.

If you haven't noticed we kind of live in a world that loves money. In order to eat we have to buy food, in order to keep warm we have to buy electricity, in order to get to work we have to buy gas, in order to do a lot of things we have to have money. Where does this money come from? It sure wont come off of my money tree that good old leprechaun gave me to support me in the real world.

I just wanted to let you know, we are not all rich or well off to just sit at a computer and develope software on our spare time.
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