UK 'needs plan B' for internet piracy
Here's where the magic happens. Sometimes. Maybe.
Section 17 obliges ISPs to block websites that are suspected of engaging in illegal file sharing. The extremely strong wording of the section makes ISPs responsible for illegal filesharing activities, and thus vulnerable to legal action from content rights-holders. However, taking too swift and strong action would also give any erroneously blocked sites cause to sue as well.
The meeting follows Hunt's recent decision to refer Section 17 to Ofcom for review. However, The Guardian reports that the referral was seen by some rights holders as a move to dispose of the measure, and the result of last night's meeting was an agreement to 'form a working group to look at ways of making the proposed system more palatable.'
One attendee told The Guardian that ‘it is agreed that what is needed is a plan B, or at least a plan that works alongside Section 17 which would be the legal backstop.’ One proposed plan B is that rights holders indemnify ISPs from legal action taken against them due to erroneous blocking. This means that it would be up to the rights holders to ‘prove incontrovertibly that a site was illegal before getting ISPs to block them.’
Among the attendees of the meeting, which included BT, Universal Music, the BPI and TalkTalk – was Google, who mentioned its plans to ‘police digital piracy searches and promote legal sources of film and music content.’
A move towards better policing of the Internet should only be cautiously welcomed. The strong wording of Section 17 of the infamously controversial Digital Economy Act certainly needs to be looked at again, so we’re hoping that Ofcom can bring more practical sense to the act, rather than demanding that sites get blocked will-nilly at the merest suspicion of
We’d also like to restate our stance on piracy discussions before inviting your comments, namely that linking to or asking for illegal downloads will result in bans from the forum. Similarly, anyone offering advice on how to pirate content or seen to be inciting or encouraging piracy will be banned from the forums.
Are you encouraged to see the Digital Ecomomy Act being discussed with the aim of modifying it, or do you think it will be a case of too little too late? Let us know in the forums.
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Discuss in the forums ReplyObviously things need to be done to discourage pirates. But they really should be looking at ways to encourage consumers as well.
Section 17 of the Digital Economy act was entirely blind to these causes of piracy and looks to set in place some very draconian methods. Blocking internet sites? That seems a bit too Chinese government to me. It's good to see that they are looking to make a change to the way sites would be judged as illegal though. The original document simply left it to the government (advised by members of the entertainment industry with no proof required) who would then force ISPs to ban them.
Something needs to be done but Section 17 really is very lazy. The industry needs to look closer to home.
Can I get my Ad free, region free, Blu-Ray now please? It costs me £20 and I expect more!
This. I used to pirate games a lot just 4 years ago, but I've not bothered since the day it became easier to buy a game off Steam than to download and crack it. Just look at this weekend's sale - C&C games for £3.74 each!! I can feel my wallet jumping out of my pocket, and I don't even play RTS games that much!
+1 to that.
I admit I used to do the same thing. With Steam having an almost 1click process to buying and delivering games, it's never been easier to buy legit. And with the constant sales and discounts, it's never been cheaper. My library on Steam has at least 100 games on it.
Also for music there's iTunes. I know a lot of people hate iTunes. But I love it. One click and boom songs on my computer/iPhone. Legally and fairly cheaply.
TV shows? BBC iPlayer, ITV player, 4OD, youtube channels. TVCatchup.
Unless it's easier to get content legitimately than it is to pirate, it's always going to be a problem.
Getting ISP's to block websites is the start to a controlled internet where what we can access is screened. If a site is illegal then the copyright owners should be given a system where it's easier to take the site down.
ISP's shouldn't take any blame, the internet is based on freedom and they shouldn't be told what their customers can and can't access.
Surely there is a market for a similar application or website that offers TV and Movie streaming or downloads at great prices? I use SeeSaw quite a lot for TV, its great for getting programs you missed and renting is quite cheap, but the thing is I don't like renting, I would prefer to own and download permenantly. And don't tell me iTunes, that is so rubbish, it can't even handle me pluggin in my iPhone once in a while to put the bit-tech podcast on it!
I read a really interesting article recently about Anime pirating which was based around why Anime fans prefer to download "fansubbed" episodes instead of buying the DVD/BluRay or using legit streaming services. I think the consensus was that "fansubbing" was better quality and had faster release times than legally subbed and released titles offered by companies like Funimation. I think this proves that what people are looking for is convenience and quality at reasonable prices.
I for one would love a legit app for my HTPC like Steam but offering HD TV programs and movies at good prices! Or maybe there is one already, anyone know of something like this? Actually I know there is a app which offers a service for Chinese TV, but that is not much use to us in the UK :(
It's forced the over priced & badly organised entertainment industry to try and compete on an unfair playing field, eventually resulting in lower prices and a better system for buyers, which has meant more people buying.
I've noticed just amongst family and friends in the last 2-3 years more and more are buying rather than going looking for a pirate copy, because it's easier/cheaper now and I'm fairly sure this is not just restricted to my little part of the world.
So in some ways piracy has worked, but obviously it's still BAD. :)
*Edited by moderator*
Thanks for mentioning SeeSaw. Never heard of it before but looks impressive. I'll give it a try :)
No problem I found it when I was getting frustrated with using BBC iPlayer, ITV Player and 4OD. SeeSaw combines programs from all over the place, a lot from 4OD but others as well. The Documentary section is really good! And they are starting Battlestar Gallactica now with the mini-series for just £1.99, now that is worth it!
I've already got all the series on DVD. Including the "The Plan" special. Gutted it's over.
I've been meaning to get into Misfits and noticed it's there. Ok uni work can get stuffed :D
I'd happily pay $9.95 for a downloadable movie I can watch as often as I like (e.g. no DRM). And I'm happily buying games at $14.95 aswell (only if I don't need an online-account like Steam tho). The new album of my favourite singer/group for $9.95 in highest bitrate possible?... count me in there too, if it comes without any DRM, as I want to listen to my music everywhere I go on multiple devices.
Anything above those prices is just too much, if the companies want to sell me their stuff more frequently.
Valve created Steam and i'm pretty sure made a ton of people convert from piracy to actually paying for games, and not only that but buying games they would never hav even considered previously, and buying games they will never play. I bought red orchestra and i've played a whole 5 minutes and that's it, bought Mass Effect and didnt even touch it for over a year.
Although Activision seems to be doing it's hardest to actually encourage piracy with their highly overpriced games and increasingly poor development.
Easiest way to encourage people to buy product instead of piracy is to lower prices
Want to stop piracy? If the below was available the world over I'd not have to pirate anything.
Music: since Spotify I have not pirated one single mp3.
Movies/Documentaries/TV Shows: once Netflix and Amazon on-demand video is available in the UK I won't pirate said media
Video Games: Valve and Games for Windows etc etc should have a Netflix like model for games as OnLIve now does (correct me if i'm wrong) so I'd pay a monthly few and can play whatever game I like but never own the game. And/OR Video game companies need to provide more/better demos.
I believe online is moving into streaming movies, tv shows and music which would be killer for a one stop shop for pay/month content of any ilk.
Maybe it's time to admit that the concept of copyrighted material is dead and replace it with a global tip jar
for fans of any work to show their appreciation. The Internet is already a proven distribution system, who needs publishers/record labels/film studios they are only upset because while they were snorting coke of the bonnets of their Ferraris the world changed and they are not required any more.
So please **** of quietly, plenty of good art in all forms will still be released, and people will become famous without the old industry middle men taking 80%
As for HD, with all hardware subject to the HDCP kiss-of-death (aka key revocation) I've chosen not to spend a penny on it. The leak of the HDCP master key may make HD a "safe" purchase (from a consumer perspective) in future, but I'm not holding my breath.
On the other hand, we have what seems to be a militantly consumer-hostile book industry in the UK trying to rip off purchasers even more blatantly on e-books that they have been on the dead-tree versions. If piracy (and consumer boycotts) can kill off such thinking, then more power to them.
That's certainly a huge part of it, sure. Plenty of gamers don't consider newer games to be worth $60 for rehashed sequel gameplay. Plenty also go to the ease of downloading a torrent, so easy it couldn't be wrong, right? The music industry is hit hardest by that, unlike pirated games which may need some setup pirated music works right away. Provide a reasonably priced and accessible system and you'll likely see a drop in piracy.
But that is a very long way from eliminating piracy. As much as people may hate to admit it, there are people who pirate things simply because they don't want to pay any amount for any quality of content. Without some sort of safeguard, the genuinely uncaring "free lunch" pirates will keep on pirating regardless of whether the oh-so-noble vigilante pirates stop or not.
On topic, can't say that having ISPs block illegal download sites is really the way to go about that. Too much room for error, due to the nature of the internet even legit sites may get some bad uploads and "bad" sites may still have some legal content.
I think you're totally wrong i only pirate some games as they have no demos if they are worth purchasing i purchase them as i mostly want games for online anyay and you can't pirate most multiplayer games and the ones you can i am too lazy since steam and the sales i have brought an awfull lot more games and i am loyal to certain franchises such as crytek and and THQ with the dawn of war franchise i only pirategames that i know are gonna be god awful dribble just to test them out since the full price tags are a rip off for a half made crap game if games were cheaper i would definitely buy more and so would the majority of people the main thing that puts consumers off purchasing is overpriced half asses finished games.
What is new now?
They only care about the piracy because they are losing money, what about the poor children that are being abused every day.
They should be filtering the ISP's for child porn and stopping the perverts around the world.
STOP the abuse first and then think about your money.
OK, but here's the question...
Do they matter?
The whole piracy argument swings on the theory of piracy=lost sales. It assumes that people would buy the product if they couldn't pirate it. For some people that's true, and the move to make legal downloads easier is having an effect on those people, as so many have said. For those who wouldn't buy the product under any circumstances, such as the ones you're talking about, there is no lost sale. Arguably they're stealing it, but that theft doesn't impact the IP owner in any way I can see.
If you make life difficult on the people who are willing to pay in an attempt to stop those who aren't willing to pay, then the willing will go back to choosing not to.
Yeah, pretty much, but if we didn't repeat ourselves what would we have to talk about? :p
1) Those that can't afford to pay - These are temporary pirates as sooner or later they will get a job and buy what they want. Minor hit on sales in the long term. Most lost sales would never have been purchased at all.
2) Those that would never have bought the item to begin with - No lost sales at all here.
3) Those who want to 'demo' things first before they buy - Very few sales lost here as most people only demo what they are interested in to begin with. Minor hit on sales .
4) Those that will pirate because they can - Reasonable loss, but relatively speaking it's still pretty minor.
Perhaps I give humans too much credit, but I feel most fit into the first three categorys. Thus little is actually lost to piracy. It's all a big QQ by the big companys. I don't condone piracy..but I also don't feel it deserves the coverage it receives.
It doesn't help the media companies case when you start getting things like Warner's digital copies which don't work on iTunes (at all) or the digital copy code activation is time restricted (the last Harry Potter film is advertised on the box as having a digital copy but in the small print on the back of the box it has an expiry date of December 2010 and, again, does not work with iTunes (which it doesn't mention anywhere on the box)).
I have never pirated anything (as far as I recall). However, since getting into Steam I have spent an order of magnitude more on games than I ever did in the retailstore days.
Same story for music. Since discovering iTunes and the Amazon MP3 store (which is typically a bit cheaper than iTunes and integrates directly with your iTunes library - worth checking out if you haven't), I have spent a huge amount more on music, and have discovered so much more new music, than I ever did in the days of buying CDs.
It is blindingly obvious that the solution to the apparent crisis in the various entertainment industries is to run with the technology rather than fight against it. After all, it was technological evolutions that gave birth to all these industries in the first place.
those who place too much emphasis on the piracy=lost sales argument (i'm thinking the sadly out of touch music industry, but as is evidenced here it's lots o media) are focusing on a very small loss and missing a goldmine. as you've mentioned, for those who wouldn't buy under any circumstances (the largest potential market) the only approach is free trial. try it free (or for a very low cost) and you might like it. you might even one day buy it and even become a regular customer. nothing ventured, nothing gained.
You obviously admit to pirating games, and you have plenty of excuses, but the fact remains. So what makes you any different than someone with no excuses other than being unwilling to pay?
I, for one, don't like piracy because I find it hugely immoral (in addition to the immorality of breaking any legal restrictions). It's taking someone else's work and using it without giving them their due compensation. Letting people get compensated for their work is always close to my heart, stopping pirates even with no profit is part of that.
You'll notice that every argument relies on the basic idea that the gamer is entitled to play any video game he or she chooses, at any time. That's simply not the case.
You seem to have missed the point with two of my points. You also seem to think I was referring solely to gaming piracy, which I wasn't.
Point 2: 'If they wouldn't have bought the item anyway'. It's got nothing to do with a lack of money. A person may try a game/film/album if they can get it for free that they would never have been interested enough in to actually spent money on.
Point 4: 'They will pirate because they can'. You say just don't play it? That comment makes no sense. People who pirate because they can are going to do it regardless of anything.
I also never said anyone was entitled to play anything, nor do I see a connection to that with the examples I gave. I merely outlined the 4 types of pirate as I see it.
As an aside, how would you view people lending games to someone else? That has much the same effect as piracy (potential gain in sales if the borrower decides to get their own copy, actual loss if they decide it's a crock of shite). Also for second hand game sales - would you consider these immoral also?