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Windows 7 security courtesy of the NSA

Windows 7 security courtesy of the NSA

With Microsoft working closely with the NSA, Windows 7 should prove the most secure version of the OS yet.

A lot may be said about Windows 7 being the most secure version of Microsoft's operating system yet, but you might not be aware that this is the result of a partnership with the National Security Agency.

As reported over on the NPR News Blog - via Maximum PC - the NSA - the secretive security organisation which often finds itself the subject of spy thrillers and conspiracy theories alike - has coughed to its work with Microsoft which saw the NSA "leverag[ing] our unique expertise and operational knowledge of system threats and vulnerabilities to enhance Microsoft's operating system security guide without constraining the user's ability to perform their everyday tasks," according to Richard Schaeffer, the NSA's information assurance director.

Although this isn't the first time the NSA has poked around at an operating system in order to improve security for all - the organisation is also responsible for the Security Enhanced Linux system which finds use in most modern distributions - but this marks the one of the first times that its Information Assurance division has had the chance to do so "in coordination with the product release, not months or years later in the product cycle."

This partnership with Microsoft isn't new - the NSA also helped out with security functionality for Vista and XP, and works with other vendors including Apple and RedHat to keep their systems safe - but demonstrates the importance of security to a modern operating system, to the point where an organisation tasked with keeping a nation safe will voluntarily get involved.

Of course, while improved security is always a good thing, there will be those who see the partnership as a problem: with one of the NSA's remits being to monitor electronic communications, it's easy to get carried away with theories of backdoors hidden in the system and deliberate holes punched in cryptography implementations. Whether the public admission of the NSA's hand in Windows 7's development will help or hinder sales of the OS remains to be seen.

Are you pleased to see the NSA taking a proactive approach to protecting the US's electronic infrastructure, or does it have you reaching for the tinfoil hat while wishing the spooks would keep their hands off your OS? Share your thoughts over in the forums.

61 Comments

Discuss in the forums Reply
shanky887614 19th November 2009, 11:18 Quote
or people that have things to hide becasue they are allowed to moniter peoples data this could prvide an easy way for them to do it i think ill wait a while till it is fully disected before i install it i dont like the idea that americans might be able to sniff around my computer here in the uk
B1GBUD 19th November 2009, 12:03 Quote
Can any government agency really be trusted? I don't think so but heck... what can you do about it?

(Grabs tinfoil tracksuit)
Mentai 19th November 2009, 12:20 Quote
It's unpleasant but I'm going to assume they have better things to do than come after me. That's if they actually did put backdoors in.
Baz 19th November 2009, 12:24 Quote
The government is watching you masturbate!
Aracos 19th November 2009, 12:33 Quote
Psytek 19th November 2009, 12:48 Quote
lol, the kind of security government agencies uses is typically:

leave all passwords set to default.
leave all ports open on servers.
leave unencrypted data on laptops in public places.
leave unencrypted data on flash drives in public places.
apologise when data gets hacked/leaked.
shanky887614 19th November 2009, 13:14 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psytek
lol, the kind of security government agencies uses is typically:

leave all passwords set to default.
leave all ports open on servers.
leave unencrypted data on laptops in public places.
leave unencrypted data on flash drives in public places.
apologise when data gets hacked/leaked.

acording to what you said they are not gettign hacked someone is just logging on is that really hacking?
i dont think so and even when they encrypt it you can still unencrypt it if you have enough time
Whalemeister 19th November 2009, 13:50 Quote
Kinda related to this but it you really want to screw with the American government just ad a sig block to all your emails with words like "bomb, president white house, assassinate, plot, etc" If we can get enough people doing it the email monitoring systems they have in place would be crippled.

Come comrades, together we can defeat these capitalist pigs!!
steleet 19th November 2009, 14:50 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whalemeister
Kinda related to this but it you really want to screw with the American government just ad a sig block to all your emails with words like "bomb, president white house, assassinate, plot, etc" If we can get enough people doing it the email monitoring systems they have in place would be crippled.

Come comrades, together we can defeat these capitalist pigs!!


*Knock knock* "FBI!"
perplekks45 19th November 2009, 15:29 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by shanky887614
acording to what you said they are not gettign hacked someone is just logging on is that really hacking?
i dont think so and even when they encrypt it you can still unencrypt it if you have enough time
How do you decrypt a flash device that lets you enter the passkey three times then erases all data automatically?
Dave Lister 19th November 2009, 16:14 Quote
If i'd known this before releasae of win 7 i'd still be running xp on my laptop now. Goverments can not be trusted especialy the american goverment.
liratheal 19th November 2009, 16:38 Quote
Yes, because I'm sure Microsoft used the advice given by the NSA to install monitoring software, so they can see what you're doing 24/7.

Something everyone seems to forget - The vast majority of us aren't interesting enough to be watched by other non-government people, why would the government be willing to watch you? Pretty sure they can live without knowing which folder your porn's hidden in.</antitinfoil>
perplekks45 19th November 2009, 16:56 Quote
C:\users\perplekks45\My Documents\POOOOOOOOOOOOORN\
or something similar...

:|
Star*Dagger 19th November 2009, 17:37 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by shanky887614
or people that have things to hide becasue they are allowed to moniter peoples data this could prvide an easy way for them to do it i think ill wait a while till it is fully disected before i install it i dont like the idea that americans might be able to sniff around my computer here in the uk

Every email you send and Google search you do is sent through the NSA, I thought everyone knew that.

Tinfoil hat is saying that is not happening.
proxess 19th November 2009, 20:02 Quote
Windows:
C:/users/proxess/Desktop/

Linux:
/home/proxess/Desktop/

Go ahead, come take my porn!
thehippoz 19th November 2009, 20:36 Quote
well it's already insecure by default.. you have to change the uac level to get it tanked- and you know average joe blow doesn't know what the hell is going on

how do they explain that.. strait out the box a puppetmaster can already take full control like in xp (be it spoof or getting a toolbag to run a codec so he can watch riding miss daisy) and it's been demonstrated already, programs running with full permissions without any blip on the uac

so whatever they're doing, they already fing failed XD
B3CK 20th November 2009, 03:33 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by perplekks45
How do you decrypt a flash device that lets you enter the passkey three times then erases all data automatically?

Clone it first then you can start cracking the clones...
B3CK 20th November 2009, 03:36 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by shanky887614
acording to what you said they are not gettign hacked someone is just logging on is that really hacking?
i dont think so and even when they encrypt it you can still unencrypt it if you have enough time

I do seem to remember a couple years ago people going to jail for attempting access to a U.S. gov site, due to the fact that the site was for authorized personnel only; and therefore constituted "trying to gain access to an un-authorized website"; deemed hacking.
The laws have probably changed since then, and if I am remembering correctly the site in question was not meant to open to the internet, but was somehow still on the internet if you accessed it directly via ip.
Cthippo 20th November 2009, 06:57 Quote
Keep in mind also that this is the NSA, not your local police, not the state and not even the FBI that theoretically has this capability. If you Have Osama bin Ladin's mailing address on your computer they might be interested, but anything short of that they're going to tell the requesting agency to go piss up a rope.

And if anyone it's interested, C:?.../my documents/temp/ On the desktop and D:/chris/ on the fileserver ;)
Javerh 20th November 2009, 07:40 Quote
It doesn't interest conspiracy theorists alone. This also raises a national security issue for every country in the world. If they ever happen to be in some kind of political crisis with the USA, there is always a risk that the NSA can issue a command that will freeze all Windows 7's in the target country. All critical systems are of course isolated but an attack such as that would greatly hinder the civilian computer infrastructure. If Microsoft had been collaborating with the Russian FAPSI or the Chinese MSS, NSA would be trembling in their boots.
Shagbag 20th November 2009, 08:45 Quote
The NSA create Security Enhanced (SE) Linux 10 years ago. Windows playing catch-up again.
crazyceo 20th November 2009, 09:58 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baz
The government is watching you masturbate!

I just hold my other hand infront of the webcam! or wear a Bill Oddy mask!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shagbag
The NSA create Security Enhanced (SE) Linux 10 years ago. Windows playing catch-up again.

But no one uses that one, so it was a bit of a waste really. Read the rest of the article next time as it also goes on to say they've worked with many companies including Microsoft for many years.
Shagbag 20th November 2009, 10:20 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyceo
But no one uses that one, so it was a bit of a waste really.
Really? I guess no one told Red Hat.
No one told Barclays (who use Red Hat).
No one told Bank of America (who use Red Hat).
No one told the New York Stock Exchange (who use Red Hat).
etc. etc.

Once again you've been caught out shooting your mouth off over things you don't understand.
DarkLord7854 20th November 2009, 15:53 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Javerh
It doesn't interest conspiracy theorists alone. This also raises a national security issue for every country in the world. If they ever happen to be in some kind of political crisis with the USA, there is always a risk that the NSA can issue a command that will freeze all Windows 7's in the target country. All critical systems are of course isolated but an attack such as that would greatly hinder the civilian computer infrastructure. If Microsoft had been collaborating with the Russian FAPSI or the Chinese MSS, NSA would be trembling in their boots.

Considering, if you read the article, it says the NSA helped with Windows XP and Vista, then you're f*cked either way.




This discussion is silly IMO..
dyzophoria 20th November 2009, 16:50 Quote
lol at conspiracies, we are doomed then if you read correctly they also helped on the security of linux, osx, vista, xp, so lets shutdown everything!
Bob1234 20th November 2009, 17:09 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psytek
lol, the kind of security government agencies uses is typically:

leave all passwords set to default.
leave all ports open on servers.
leave unencrypted data on laptops in public places.
leave unencrypted data on flash drives in public places.
apologise when data gets hacked/leaked.

Followed by

clean up the mess
claim it all caused billions in damages
find a scapegoat to take the fall
hide incompetence so scapegoat takes the blame for all past mistakes and lack of planning, security and investment

Well, if its in the US anyway.
Nodule 20th November 2009, 20:02 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shagbag
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyceo
But no one uses that one, so it was a bit of a waste really.
Really? I guess no one told Red Hat.
No one told Barclays (who use Red Hat).
No one told Bank of America (who use Red Hat).
No one told the New York Stock Exchange (who use Red Hat).
etc. etc.

Once again you've been caught out shooting your mouth off over things you don't understand.

Wow what a lot of pent up rage you have there over anyone who dares prefer MS over Linux. Tell you what - next time you think of posting, say to yourself "It's only a piece of software" 20 times and then consider it again.
Aracos 20th November 2009, 20:09 Quote
[Delete please]
Shagbag 20th November 2009, 22:01 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodule
Wow what a lot of pent up rage you have there over anyone who dares prefer MS over Linux. Tell you what - next time you think of posting, say to yourself "It's only a piece of software" 20 times and then consider it again.
I don't like it when people spread lies about an OS. I will always correct them.

Don't tell me what to do. Why don't YOU stick your head up your a_s_s and say to yourself "it's only a forum" 21 times. Back at you.
perplekks45 20th November 2009, 22:17 Quote
Why don't you kids just go outside, build a server and stress-test it to see who's got the bigger OS e-penis? :p

After being forced to use Fedora at uni I have to say I can only recommend not touching it to anyone who wants to listen. There are a couple of great *NIX distros out there but, at least for me, Red Hat/Fedora isn't one of them.
crazyceo 20th November 2009, 22:36 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shagbag
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyceo
But no one uses that one, so it was a bit of a waste really.
Really? I guess no one told Red Hat.
No one told Barclays (who use Red Hat).
No one told Bank of America (who use Red Hat).
No one told the New York Stock Exchange (who use Red Hat).
etc. etc.

Once again you've been caught out shooting your mouth off over things you don't understand.

Once again? You are making yourself look the fool since everytime you open your mouth, the next post corrects your sweeping bias statement completely. Come and put some money into the deep pockets at Microsoft and buy a real OS instead and that freebee "MINORITY" crap you love so much. Just like every other smarter and happier Microsoft customer on the planet. ;-D
Krikkit 20th November 2009, 22:37 Quote
Both of you stop right now.
Shagbag 21st November 2009, 08:42 Quote
This forum should not be one that allows a windows fanboy to run rampant dissing other operating systems. While I'm happy for people to say why they like an OS, I don't believe it's in the interests of anyone to let someone tell lies, that's why I corrected him and I will continue to do so while he continues to do it. Look at his posting history and you will see he is a Microsoft employee, paid to monitor these forums and promote the interests of Microsoft over all others.
DarkLord7854 21st November 2009, 08:58 Quote
Mmm forum drama.. best served with a fresh side of banhammer.
Cthippo 21st November 2009, 09:36 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shagbag
This forum should not be one that allows a windows fanboy to run rampant dissing other operating systems.

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"

Evelyn Beatrice Hall
Fod 21st November 2009, 10:54 Quote
I love fanboys. Their one-sided view of the world must make their life so simple.
Aracos 21st November 2009, 13:57 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shagbag
This forum should not be one that allows a windows fanboy to run rampant dissing other operating systems. While I'm happy for people to say why they like an OS, I don't believe it's in the interests of anyone to let someone tell lies, that's why I corrected him and I will continue to do so while he continues to do it. Look at his posting history and you will see he is a Microsoft employee, paid to monitor these forums and promote the interests of Microsoft over all others.

Unfortunately it is not the jobs of the staff or the moderators to make sure every single bit of information that someone posts is correct, that's unreasonable and while I agree people shouldn't be able to just go rampant and slag off what they hate without good reason or about stuff they know nothing about there's no stopping it unfortunately, there's nothing wrong with defending what you love against lies but you went about it in the wrong way, that argument is only gonna turn into a big fight ending with you two getting the banhammer. Personally I would like to punch him in the face but you need to hold back, calm down and represent the Linux community that have turned to the good side ;)
steveo_mcg 21st November 2009, 14:38 Quote
To add to storms comment its much easier and safer for your account to stick trolls on your ignore list than to bother arguing with them.
crazyceo 21st November 2009, 15:37 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shagbag
This forum should not be one that allows a windows fanboy to run rampant dissing other operating systems. While I'm happy for people to say why they like an OS, I don't believe it's in the interests of anyone to let someone tell lies, that's why I corrected him and I will continue to do so while he continues to do it. Look at his posting history and you will see he is a Microsoft employee, paid to monitor these forums and promote the interests of Microsoft over all others.

Quote which lies have been stated and while your at it quote your reason to start the pissing contest in the first place. Don't start crying now you've been shut up.
|V| 4 L k i 3 R 21st November 2009, 16:03 Quote
Grabs the wheel and steers back to reality:

For those of you who seem to think having an outside authority help look at the security problems that Windows has, let's do a hypothetical...

Let's ASSUME that in the past, all Windows distro's have been done only in house at Microsoft. Now one company knows how the OS works inside and out, the good and the bad, the strenghts and the weaknesses. What stops Microsoft (or a rogue employee for that matter) from leaving in place, a security flaw/backdoor/trojan/what-have-you and using that whenever the US Gov't or some other gov't applies pressure, money, or both to Microsoft and says "Let me in"?

I believe that the announcement that the NSA has consulted on the security portions of the Windows OS does very little in making it more or less secure to those who are worred about the government getting in. However, I also think that it does make it more secure from independent hackers, script kiddies, and other such parties.
Shagbag 21st November 2009, 23:04 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyceo
Quote which lies have been stated and while your at it quote your reason to start the pissing contest in the first place. Don't start crying now you've been shut up.
You said few used SE Linux. That's either a lie, or you are so mind-blowingly ignorant that you shame yourself.
crazyceo 22nd November 2009, 11:08 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shagbag
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyceo
Quote which lies have been stated and while your at it quote your reason to start the pissing contest in the first place. Don't start crying now you've been shut up.
You said few used SE Linux. That's either a lie, or you are so mind-blowingly ignorant that you shame yourself.

OK, since this is a Windows 7 based topic. Let's base my comment in relation to Microsoft based OS. You are completely naive to think that the world bases it's servers in the majority favour of Linux based operating systems. Don't embarrass yourself trying to convince anyone that the majority of the world uses Linux because the numbers DO NOT LIE! Therefore, to highlight my original comment that it is a "MINORITY" OS is correct. Maybe, if you changed the tone of your original post here and in other topics to sound less derogatory towards Microsoft, for no reason other than the fact you don't like Microsoft then just maybe, you won't get me or anyone else challenging you. If you can't handle the argument then don't start it. Don't start crying because you can't leave an anti-Microsoft comment in a Microsoft based topic without being challenged
Shagbag 22nd November 2009, 13:28 Quote
Look, that's fine. If you want to go ahead and ignore the server space, that's up to you, but I really think you have to ask yourself: are the facts important here, or aren't they? If the facts aren't important then go ahead and stick with your bizarre definition of 'minority', but if they are then you clearly need to go away, do some homework and then come back and argue your points.

To be honest, I come across people like this all the time: you simply can't be arsed to take the time to get the facts straight and, instead, just 'get the FUD' and tow the MS line. I can't believe you actually thought SE Linux was a distro in itself. You clearly have no idea about linux but you're quite happy to pass judgement on it. Like your username says, you are a crazy man.
M7ck 22nd November 2009, 16:20 Quote
Reported

EDIT

Sorry Nexxo
crazyceo 22nd November 2009, 21:15 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shagbag
Look, that's fine. If you want to go ahead and ignore the server space, that's up to you, but I really think you have to ask yourself: are the facts important here, or aren't they? If the facts aren't important then go ahead and stick with your bizarre definition of 'minority', but if they are then you clearly need to go away, do some homework and then come back and argue your points.

To be honest, I come across people like this all the time: you simply can't be arsed to take the time to get the facts straight and, instead, just 'get the FUD' and tow the MS line. I can't believe you actually thought SE Linux was a distro in itself. You clearly have no idea about linux but you're quite happy to pass judgement on it. Like your username says, you are a crazy man.

Again you bring nothing to this topic of any interest. Again you cloud your own prejudice and again bad mouth me and anyone else who questions your prejudice. Why do you continue to talk nonesense about Linux in a Windows based topic. I would understand it if the topic base was Linux but it isn't and still you infect every topic about Windows with your bias Linux views.

Go and play in the "MINORITY" topics pal!
Shagbag 22nd November 2009, 22:05 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyceo
Again you bring nothing to this topic of any interest. Again you cloud your own prejudice and again bad mouth me and anyone else who questions your prejudice. Why do you continue to talk nonesense about Linux in a Windows based topic. I would understand it if the topic base was Linux but it isn't and still you infect every topic about Windows with your bias Linux views.

Go and play in the "MINORITY" topics pal!

You are boring me. Just get out of my face, minion.
Aracos 22nd November 2009, 22:30 Quote
You gotta love their passion to have the last word no matter what!
DarkLord7854 22nd November 2009, 23:31 Quote
Can we please just ban both from this topic and move on?
Cthippo 23rd November 2009, 00:36 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkLord7854
Can we please just ban both from this topic and move on?

+1

When reason fails, time for the banhammer!
aussiebear 23rd November 2009, 04:33 Quote
(1) The NSA paranoia is mainly thanks to Jerry Bruckheimer and Tony Scott, with their 1998 movie starring Will Smith.

The real NSA isn't like that. The place is filled with mathematicians, code breakers, data analysts, and computer folks. There is no "field ops" people. No Jack Bauer like characters. They don't send people out to hunt you down directly.

They are signals intelligence. All they do is listen, gather data, and try to understand how all the data they gather relates to a situation...Then pass it on to whoever can deploy people. (CIA if outside of USA, FBI if inside of USA, etc). They are the folks that quietly sit there and listen. If you don't do something that raises a flag on their systems, then you shouldn't be worried.

(2) SELinux is a solution developed from the NSA. The objective was to create a mandatory access control (MAC) framework for low cost, off the shelf OS that is Linux. They released the source code in 2000, and it was incorporated into the mainline Kernel in 2003. (it went through a number of eyes before it was accepted).

The following has support or already implements SELinux by default.
=> Red Hat (from version 4 onwards)
=> CentOS (from version 4 onwards)
=> Fedora (from Fedore Core 2 onwards)
=> EnGarde Secure Linux (since 2005)
=> Ubuntu (supported since version 8.04 onwards)
=> Debian (supported since version 4 onwards)
=> Hardened Gentoo
=> Yellow Dog Linux
=> OpenSUSE (basic support only. Since version 11.1)

Bare in mind, SELinux isn't not the be-all or end-all. It doesn't not offer memory protection mechanisms. This is where Exec Shield or PaX come into it.

Windows's attempt at MAC is called Mandatory Integrity Control. It was introduced in Vista and 2008 Server. IE's Protected Mode uses this mechanism to run in a least privileged mode...Again, MIC is not the be-all...It is vulnerable to squatting attacks. eg: Allows one to potentially disable background protection service of AV solutions.

(3) The NSA only assist in Windows where they took part in creating guides and policies in order to better secure US Govt computers. They didn't directly contribute code to Microsoft. They also create guides for Linux systems. (As the US Govt have a number of solutions using Linux in their collection).

Think about it: If NSA really went through MS's code, you'd think the recently discovered SMB2 bug that crashes Windows 7 would be there?

If you're that scared, don't use Windows. Maybe you'll benefit in other ways in the long term. :)
Mechh69 23rd November 2009, 04:48 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by aussiebear
(1) The NSA paranoia is mainly thanks to Jerry Bruckheimer and Tony Scott, with their 1998 movie starring Will Smith.

The real NSA isn't like that. The place is filled with mathematicians, code breakers, data analysts, and computer folks. There is no "field ops" people. No Jack Bauer like characters. They don't send people out to hunt you down directly.

They are signals intelligence. All they do is listen, gather data, and try to understand how all the data they gather relates to a situation...Then pass it on to whoever can deploy people. (CIA if outside of USA, FBI if inside of USA, etc). They are the folks that quietly sit there and listen. If you don't do something that raises a flag on their systems, then you shouldn't be worried.

(2) SELinux is a solution developed from the NSA. The objective was to create a mandatory access control (MAC) framework for low cost, off the shelf OS that is Linux. They released the source code in 2000, and it was incorporated into the mainline Kernel in 2003. (it went through a number of eyes before it was accepted).

The following has support or already implements SELinux by default.
=> Red Hat (from version 4 onwards)
=> CentOS (from version 4 onwards)
=> Fedora (from Fedore Core 2 onwards)
=> EnGarde Secure Linux (since 2005)
=> Ubuntu (supported since version 8.04 onwards)
=> Debian (supported since version 4 onwards)
=> Hardened Gentoo
=> Yellow Dog Linux
=> OpenSUSE (basic support only. Since version 11.1)

Bare in mind, SELinux isn't not the be-all or end-all. It doesn't not offer memory protection mechanisms. This is where Exec Shield or PaX come into it.

Windows's attempt at MAC is called Mandatory Integrity Control. It was introduced in Vista and 2008 Server. IE's Protected Mode uses this mechanism to run in a least privileged mode...Again, MIC is not the be-all...It is vulnerable to squatting attacks. eg: Allows one to potentially disable background protection service of AV solutions.

(3) The NSA only assist in Windows where they took part in creating guides and policies in order to better secure US Govt computers. They didn't directly contribute code to Microsoft. They also create guides for Linux systems. (As the US Govt have a number of solutions using Linux in their collection).

Think about it: If NSA really went through MS's code, you'd think the recently discovered SMB2 bug that crashes Windows 7 would be there?

If you're that scared, don't use Windows. Maybe you'll benefit in other ways in the long term. :)

+1 to aussiebear ^ is about the way it is. I see someone does their homework.;)
crazyceo 23rd November 2009, 09:20 Quote
Shame, nothing again!

Getting back on topic finally. Do we know of any other security agencies who have helped operating system developers? How many other government agencies have left their fingerprints/backdoors?
Shagbag 23rd November 2009, 13:43 Quote
Well done aussiebear. It's refreshing to have someone else on these forums who actually understands something about linux.

I'd go further and recommend not only avoiding windows, but using OpenBSD if you're serious about security. You trade off some functionality though, eg. you don't get anything near Linux's 40+ different file systems support.
crazyceo 23rd November 2009, 14:24 Quote
You mean "It's refreshing to have someone else on these forums who actually shares my views about linux."

Shame really since it has no relevence to the topic in question.
DarkLord7854 23rd November 2009, 15:24 Quote
Do you guys ever put a sock in it? I mean really, even a mod asked you two to stop, yet you continue..

Obviously that's a rhetorical question..
crazyceo 23rd November 2009, 15:40 Quote
No problem guys, Sorry!

Getting back on topic finally again. Do we know of any other security agencies who have helped operating system developers? How many other government agencies have left their fingerprints/backdoors?
Bindibadgi 23rd November 2009, 16:12 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkLord7854
Do you guys ever put a sock in it? I mean really, even a mod asked you two to stop, yet you continue..

Obviously that's a rhetorical question..

Amen to that.

Shurrup or ill put a sock in you both.




I didn't say your mouths either...

/puts on rubber gloves and pulls a pair of used, red football socks from the dirty washing basket.
crazyceo 23rd November 2009, 17:45 Quote
Getting back on topic finally again, again & again. Do we know of any other security agencies who have helped operating system developers? How many other government agencies have left their fingerprints/backdoors?
Bindibadgi 23rd November 2009, 23:02 Quote
Get back on topic.

Windows 7 security courtesy of the NSA

That is the topic. Stick on it, or ill keep removing posts.

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e314/Nexxo00/Thread-Offtopic-Jules.jpg
TempGong 23rd November 2009, 23:38 Quote
I find that computers these days as well as Internet in general are begin to become more and more like the Television, ads everywhere copyright restrictions and discussing bugs from companies who decide which is good or not for us. We are more and more becoming pigs of the industry and I am afraid if we don't (as people first) defend some basic rights, like the right for privacy, we will be guided more and more from lustful companies.

That said, I think that as well applies to this case.

Also, the guys above are both stupid. From the one hand, the Windows guy is biased as hell. The term Minority for both the GNU/Linux and Mac OS X community is at least rude. I happen to be on both and I find myself, as the minority, working better on both this OS's. I however was frustrated by the amount of maintenance did Windows need to do basic tasks. That doesn't apply on you so good for you, but bashing the preferences and ideals (in general) of others is really irritating, your also being submissive on the other making your self more fool than ever. On the other hand, the Red Hat guy is trying to something right but then fails bad only because he falls to the other guys level and is also being submissive. The SE is really not for desktop users but rather for extreme security purposes and as such it restricts the average users moves. As such, putting a SE on Windows wouldn't be beneficial and also creates a risk of NSA looking over at your logs.
crazyceo 24th November 2009, 09:00 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bindibadgi
Get back on topic.

Windows 7 security courtesy of the NSA

That is the topic. Stick on it, or ill keep removing posts.

Thanks

The reason I'm asking if any other agencies have helped OS developers is based on the fear of any british government department being involved. They've shown bad form here by being completely incapable of safe storage of their own data including our personal details on too many occassions recently. If they can loose our date, they can also loose the code they helped the developers with.

Is this the kind of help they should be asking for?
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