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Microsoft not worried about Chrome

Microsoft not worried about Chrome

Ballmer believes that Microsoft has little to worry from Google's operating systems, and declares puzzlement at the offering of "two client operating systems."

Microsoft is decidedly unphased by the announcement of the Chrome operating system, with chief executive Steve Ballmer claiming that Google is making a big mistake.

In comments made at Microsoft's Worldwide Partner Conference – and recorded by CNet – Ballmer claimed to be confused as to “what the problem is over [at Google],” accusing the company of making the same mistake Microsoft made back in the early days of 32-bit Windows.

Claiming that Chrome and Android represented business and consumer operating system respectively Ballmer derided Google's plans, stating that “the last time I checked you don't need two client operating systems.

This is something that Microsoft has a certain amount of experience in: when first making the move to a 32-bit operating system, Microsoft had two separate business units: one developed the commercially-oriented Windows NT operating system; the other, the consumer-targeted Windows 95. Now, both the home and server editions of Windows share a common codebase – something which makes maintaining and improving the operating system much less of a headache.

While Ballmer has a point, it can be argued that Google's two operating systems are more like Windows Vista and Windows Mobile than NT and 95: despite various companies shoe-horning Android onto netbooks, it's an operating system that will always be more at home on small, low power devices like PDAs and smartphones; Chrome, by comparison, is a fully-fledged operating system more able to make use of the capabilities of a powerful PC.

One thing is for sure: Microsoft will be keeping a close eye on both Android and Chrome, with Ballmer describing Google's OS plans as “highly interesting [although] it won't happen for a year and a half.

Does Microsoft has cause to worry, or is Google's Chrome likely to be all polish and no substance? Share your thoughts over in the forums.

83 Comments

Discuss in the forums Reply
PT88 15th July 2009, 15:19 Quote
Is chrome basicaly just another Linux Distro?
freedom810 15th July 2009, 15:25 Quote
If google could get the game support I'd back them, until them or any other OS gets good gaming support ill be sticking with windows..(as much as I hate it)
p3n 15th July 2009, 15:35 Quote
The google OS will be an 'instant on' linux distro; with the GUI built around their web browser - not a direct competitor to windows of any flavour, but will make 'simple computers' even cheaper without an MS licence on top. (Google's will be open source).
tejas 15th July 2009, 15:46 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by freedom810
If google could get the game support I'd back them, until them or any other OS gets good gaming support ill be sticking with windows..(as much as I hate it)

In order for that to happen OpenGL would have to be explicitly supported by Google Chrome OS as well as by Nvidia, AMD and Intel in drivers. However if they can get OpenGL and OpenCL to work well then, gaming wise and folding wise, Windows will be dead.

Seeing how Nvidia, AMD and Intel are supporting OpenGL and CL, I think Google could do some serious damage to Microsoft especially if the OS is free...
I-E-D 15th July 2009, 15:52 Quote
PT, yes it is :D But Google are gunna make it good.

And why would microsoft come out if they weren't scared? They know the Chrome browser is better, and are expecting the OS to be better too. I think many computer sellers will install Chrome, as it will be fast, and get users on the internet within seconds.
Petor 15th July 2009, 15:54 Quote
Haha yeah that being said im a recent convert to mac, and i can happily play away at EVE natively. keeps me happy :)
crazyceo 15th July 2009, 15:59 Quote
Who in their right mind wants a google OS that will only make money off everything you click on?

Do you want the Google toolbar? NO!
Do you want the Google Sidebar? NO F*^" Off!
Do you want the Google web browser, with all these included? NO for F*^"$ sake, I'm happy with what I've got!
Well how about a Google Operating System, with all these included? Why would I swap a perfectly running and well maintained operating system with a Google ADWARE OS, now where is my shotgun and get me the address of the Google CEO!!!!!

I think I'll stick with the No 1 Brand of 2009.......MICROSOFT!!!!! http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8149460.stm

It also looks like everyone else is too judging by the Windows7 pre-orders. So 95% of the planet will stay the same and the iCrap will keep their 1% of shiny things, whilst the remaining 4% switch from Linux to Google/Linux.
Aterius Gmork 15th July 2009, 16:23 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyceo
Who in their right mind wants a google OS that will only make money off everything you click on?

Do you want the Google toolbar? NO!
Do you want the Google Sidebar? NO F*^" Off!
Do you want the Google web browser, with all these included? NO for F*^"$ sake, I'm happy with what I've got!
Well how about a Google Operating System, with all these included? Why would I swap a perfectly running and well maintained operating system with a Google ADWARE OS, now where is my shotgun and get me the address of the Google CEO!!!!!

Uhm... yeah. Right. You haven't actually used Chrome, have you? There is no toolbar, or any useless crap like that. If you type a keyword in the adress bar instead of an url it will go to google, but that's a feature, as it allows you to search for keywords using a simple shortcut. In fact I wouldn't want to miss Chrome on the netbook, as it uses the least vertical space, giving you more room for your webpage.

And if you are that worried about your private data just use Iron.

There is more thought in Chrome as one might think, for netbooks I'm sure the google OS will be great.
crazyceo 15th July 2009, 16:49 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aterius Gmork


Uhm... yeah. Right. You haven't actually used Chrome, have you? There is no toolbar, or any useless crap like that. If you type a keyword in the adress bar instead of an url it will go to google, but that's a feature, as it allows you to search for keywords using a simple shortcut. In fact I wouldn't want to miss Chrome on the netbook, as it uses the least vertical space, giving you more room for your webpage.

And if you are that worried about your private data just use Iron.

There is more thought in Chrome as one might think, for netbooks I'm sure the google OS will be great.

So it directs you to make them money? and then you recommend another product to protect my data?

I'll stick with Windows 7 which I might add RC is working perfectly fine on my netbook without any Google ADWARE.
sheninat0r 15th July 2009, 17:00 Quote
Steve-o has a point - Android has an x86 implementation, and both Chrome OS and Android are just going to be yet another Linux distro. Judging by the current popularity of Linux, this probably won't get too far unless Google can somehow hide the Linux core away and present users with an extremely dumbed-down interface, which I highly doubt will be possible. Not even Canonical and Ubuntu can truly be considered user-friendly, and then there's the fact that most Windows users don't know jack about their operating system. They expect things to work when they're clicked on, and whenever the slightest part of the UI is altered they are hopelessly lost - just look at the transition from XP to Vista.
Mentai 15th July 2009, 17:22 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyceo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aterius Gmork


Uhm... yeah. Right. You haven't actually used Chrome, have you? There is no toolbar, or any useless crap like that. If you type a keyword in the adress bar instead of an url it will go to google, but that's a feature, as it allows you to search for keywords using a simple shortcut. In fact I wouldn't want to miss Chrome on the netbook, as it uses the least vertical space, giving you more room for your webpage.

And if you are that worried about your private data just use Iron.

There is more thought in Chrome as one might think, for netbooks I'm sure the google OS will be great.

So it directs you to make them money? and then you recommend another product to protect my data?

I'll stick with Windows 7 which I might add RC is working perfectly fine on my netbook without any Google ADWARE.

Actually the first time you run chrome it says that it is using the address bar to search google by default and asks if you want to change it.
The extent of your google paranoia is a little odd to say the least, why would you be any more trusting of Microsoft?
crazyceo 15th July 2009, 17:36 Quote
[QUOTE=MentaiThe extent of your google paranoia is a little odd to say the least, why would you be any more trusting of Microsoft?[/QUOTE]

Remind me again how Google ADWARE make their money off the back of everyone using their toolbar, sidebar, browser and soon to be released OS?

Not paranoia, just common sense. I'd trust Microsoft over Google any day of the week.
tejas 15th July 2009, 17:41 Quote
hmm I don't trust Microsoft certainly not after their witholding of Alan Wake on the PC and generally stifling PC gaming in favour of the 360. I think most PC gamers only use Windows because there is NO other choice and are effectively forced to.

Competition in the OS market is long overdue and a free solid OS based on proven Linux base that could possible have gaming via OpenGL is going to open a can of whoopass (as Jen Hsun would say) on MS and their overpriced OS.

Also Google Chrome OS could break the x86 monopoly of Intel and AMD and open the CPU desktop market right up. Exciting times in computing methinks!!
crazyceo 15th July 2009, 17:54 Quote
Come off it guys, this is pure (crack)pipe dreaming.

"a free solid OS based on proven Linux base" Isn't that an oximoron?

Remind me, has Apple taken on Microsoft in the Gaming front? No! They just can't convince the developers to plough money into an area that just won't succeed. Hang on, what about Linux? Yep, good developers just won't touch it either.

Yeah, Google is really going to make Microsoft quake in their boots over a linux based OS.
dylAndroid 15th July 2009, 17:58 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheninat0r
... both Chrome OS and Android are just going to be yet another Linux distro. Judging by the current popularity of Linux, this probably won't get too far unless Google can somehow hide the Linux core away and present users with an extremely dumbed-down interface, which I highly doubt will be possible. <snip>

And yet, the iPod was just another MP3 player, albeit a bit dumbed-down. MP3 players had been around for years, yet as a product, no brand could get them to take off. They were complicated devices that only the most tech savvy seemed comfortable with (or so the public impression of them seemed to be), until Apple rolled out a simplified MP3 player with an extremely strong brand.

I can see Google pulling off the equivalent.

Actually, this general situation was predicted by one of my professors a couple years ago -- that google and microsoft were going to be battling and that google was going to try to displace microsoft's core strength: it's OS dominance. And that the OS that google went for would be much lighter weight and probably end up with more clould-type elements. The whole discussion also illustrated how google really shouldn't be seen as goodguys from the dot com era anymore.
DXR_13KE 15th July 2009, 18:07 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyceo
Not paranoia, just common sense. I'd trust Microsoft over Google any day of the week.

indeed, who wants to trust a company that has a browser that is closed source, connects you automatically to a site from where they profit from you (and sets it up as your home page), has the standard search engine also directed to this site and is known to have lots of back doors and being a liability?
crazyceo 15th July 2009, 18:16 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by DXR_13KE
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyceo
Not paranoia, just common sense. I'd trust Microsoft over Google any day of the week.

indeed, who wants to trust a company that has a browser that is closed source, connects you automatically to a site from where they profit from you (and sets it up as your home page), has the standard search engine also directed to this site and is known to have lots of back doors and being a liability?

Yes, liability that they have to address. Windows7 release in Europe will highlight this problem with third party "Open source" software. Microsoft won't have to lift a finger while your so called saviour browsers ruin your systems letting in virus and bot attacks.

Hang on, doesn't Chrome lead you straight to google and google search? As with IE8 you can change your home page and search.

As to a "standard search engine". Bing is a better calculated and formulation search than Google at present. Microsoft actually went out and purchased the company specifically with this in mind. OK it doesn't run local information that well at the moment but it took years for Google to be perfected and it still isn't that perfect anyway.
Skiddywinks 15th July 2009, 18:18 Quote
I'm all for more competition, as always, but there is no way Chrome will have any significant effct on Window's desktop dominance.
DXR_13KE 15th July 2009, 18:35 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyceo
Yes, liability that they have to address. Windows7 release in Europe will highlight this problem with third party "Open source" software. Microsoft won't have to lift a finger while your so called saviour browsers ruin your systems letting in virus and bot attacks.

Hang on, doesn't Chrome lead you straight to google and google search? As with IE8 you can change your home page and search.

As to a "standard search engine". Bing is a better calculated and formulation search than Google at present. Microsoft actually went out and purchased the company specifically with this in mind. OK it doesn't run local information that well at the moment but it took years for Google to be perfected and it still isn't that perfect anyway.

i was talking about IE...

Chrome lets you change the search engine, the home page, the source code.... about everything.

and when you open chrome it does not lead you to google, it leads you to a mosaic panel similar to safari, then you can search what you want using the search engine you chose or you can type the URL, IIRC chrome does not have a home page system like IE.


The majority of the computers that people send me for virus removal or for fixing are people that exclusively use IE, the other part is composed of people that use lame P2P software. I rarely see a computer with firefox or chrome, the ones that i see with these work flawlessly on the hands of my friends.

edit: to change the search engine on chrome you simply left click the search bar, select edit search engine, and chose from a rather nice list that includes some of your bookmarks.
Furymouse 15th July 2009, 19:11 Quote
Moot points indeed. I won't be switching from windows until another OS proves that it is a viable entity for all my needs.
n3mo 15th July 2009, 19:49 Quote
crazyceo, do you work for Microsoft? Or do you just mindlessly believe every advertisement you see?

Google can be trusted with private data no more than any other company in the world, especially Microsoft. And mr. Ballmer should finally learn to read at least something about things he talks about. Chrome OS and android HAVE the same codebase, they only differ in target devices and UI. But i don't expect him to actually read about it, I had the misfortune of meeting him in person a few years back and he sounded like a Windows-obsessed junkie, "all your base are belong to us" type.
Psytek 15th July 2009, 19:51 Quote
Ballmer is a retard... android is for PHONES...
Sheiken 15th July 2009, 20:14 Quote
Does Microsoft HAVE cause to worry ;)
wafflesomd 15th July 2009, 21:35 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyceo




Hang on, doesn't Chrome lead you straight to google and google search? As with IE8 you can change your home page and search.

No, it doesn't. It takes you here.

http://venturebeat.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/homepage-most-visited1.jpg

Crazyceo, you sound like an idiot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyceo


OK it doesn't run local information that well at the moment but it took years for Google to be perfected and it still isn't that perfect anyway.

Huh?
Aterius Gmork 15th July 2009, 21:39 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyceo
So it directs you to make them money? and then you recommend another product to protect my data?

I'll stick with Windows 7 which I might add RC is working perfectly fine on my netbook without any Google ADWARE.

Hehe, no I don't. Iron is the Chrome browser, but with all the google adware that collects your data and analizes your behavior removed.
Hugo 15th July 2009, 21:46 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyceo
words
CK?
thehippoz 15th July 2009, 22:01 Quote
hehe well balmer is the guy who roid raged, threw a chair across a room, and yelled google was nothing but a house of cards when they hired one of it's beaverfaces
DXR_13KE 15th July 2009, 22:38 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by HugoB
CK?

even CK isn't that.... nevermind.
Dreaming 16th July 2009, 00:52 Quote
i cant stand fanboys.

more competition is good for innovation, good for industry, good for the marketplace and ultimately good for the consumer.

you dont need to 'kill' microsoft to shake things up a little, thats what apple realised a few years ago and instead have tried to forget what microsoft does and focus on their core markets, which coincidentally has worked out extremely well for them.

you don't see an OS X enterprise edition though do you?

just the same as we wont see a chrome os 'pretty designer' edition or a chrome os 'canfaxalldaylonguntilitBSOD' edition.

find a niche in the market, focus on it, give consumers choice and ultimately evolve the market. how many consumers really need every feature of windows? it was an epiphany i had with my TyTN ii. It's a fantastic phone, but you know what I use my phone for? Texting, calling, and checking the time. I don't need GPS, I don't need conference calling, I don't need any of this crap. Same with the iPhone if I'm honest, I don't need applications to play snooker on. Why did I sign myself up to a credit deal for £380 for a phone (essentially what an 18 month contract is?). I have enough student debt as it is (£18k currently in case you were wondering, ty government for scrapping free uni education).

For a lot of people (most likely not us ;), anyone who likes to hack apart their computer case with dremels typically doesn't come under the 'casual pc user' thing only wants to do a few things with a computer.

1. Instant message with friends.
2. Social networking websites.
3. E-mail.

of course there are extra caveats with other things like uploading photos to social networking sites etc., but people are seeing the computer now not as an activity or hobby unlike us but just as a tool, like a mobile phone, for communication.

Just like the average consumer does not need a HTC TyTN ii to make calls, the average consumer does not need Windows XP / Vista / 7 to go on facebook, talk to friends, and check their e-mail.
Dreaming 16th July 2009, 01:17 Quote
Further to my long post (sorry!), a quote from someone that was told to me by an extremely bright friend of mine:

"The sign of good engineering is not adding everything possible, but removing everything possible" (or something to that effect!
KayinBlack 16th July 2009, 01:27 Quote
Tell my bulletproof IBM Android is for phones. It's running Cupcake now.

I'll echo that I want gaming. Until I get it, I'm not fully able to jump ship.

The moment it gets done right I'm gone, screw you MS. I'm FAR more happy with Linux than I ever was with Windows. If it ran all my games right I'd dump it before 7.
Nikumba 16th July 2009, 10:49 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by tejas

In order for that to happen OpenGL would have to be explicitly supported by Google Chrome OS as well as by Nvidia, AMD and Intel in drivers. However if they can get OpenGL and OpenCL to work well then, gaming wise and folding wise, Windows will be dead.

I assume your are forgetting about this little API collection known as DirectX? Unless a developer specifically writes the game for Linux, normally ID Software, or you cock about with WINE and that isnt perfect, gaming wont come to Chrome OS.

Ive used Linux and ok, it does its job, just as windows does, but I always have to game in windows, as Linux just aint up to it. Now people have been trying to get games on Linux for years and nope still got no where.

I think ChromeOS will do well in some markets but it will be a niche OS, like Linux and OSX outside of the fanboys/window haters etc

Kimbie
impar 16th July 2009, 11:41 Quote
Greetings!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aterius Gmork
If you type a keyword in the adress bar instead of an url it will go to google, but that's a feature, ...
Firefox is being doing that for some years now. The Search bar of Firefox is not necessary.
crazyceo 17th July 2009, 13:19 Quote
Yes I can't stand fanboys either. However, you are all climbing over yourselves crying the superiority of Google/Chrome.

The whole point of the Google ADWARE is to make them money and going off new results you are all lining their pockets rather nicely with nothing to show of any significance for it.

So when your Windows7 goes down due to a virus or glitch caused by your third party browser, be honest and post the truth. You will be installing Windows 7 because the Google ADWARE OS will be completely incompatible as an Apple OS.

Right, that's two fanboy camps insulted now. Let's see who cries the most while I laugh in compatibility heaven! ;-p
InSanCen 19th July 2009, 12:44 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyceo
Yes I can't stand fanboys either. However, you are all climbing over yourselves crying the superiority of Google/Chrome.

The whole point of the Google ADWARE is to make them money and going off new results you are all lining their pockets rather nicely with nothing to show of any significance for it.

So when your Windows7 goes down due to a virus or glitch caused by your third party browser, be honest and post the truth. You will be installing Windows 7 because the Google ADWARE OS will be completely incompatible as an Apple OS.

Right, that's two fanboy camps insulted now. Let's see who cries the most while I laugh in compatibility heaven! ;-p

The *nix community won't stand for anything other than standard (Fairly unobtrusive and easy to ignore) Google Adwords in an OS...

I really wonder if you have any comprehension of the blinkers that you have on. It's an incredible cheek you have calling others Fanboys, when you are so far up Microsoft's arse I think you are after a job in their PR department.

As many have said, a large percentage of PC Users are only sticking with Windows because of the Gaming. *IF* that changes, then there will be a severe market decline for them. Will it change? It'll be fun watching someone try it.

And Apple OS, much as I choose not to use it, generally "just works".

For the record, I run Win7 RC, XP and several flavours of *nix... and while I appreciate the Intentions and efforts of Open Source, it's got a ways to go yet before most of my Customers would swith to it.
DXR_13KE 19th July 2009, 14:04 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyceo
Yes I can't stand fanboys either. However, you are all climbing over yourselves crying the superiority of Google/Chrome.

The whole point of the Google ADWARE is to make them money and going off new results you are all lining their pockets rather nicely with nothing to show of any significance for it.

So when your Windows7 goes down due to a virus or glitch caused by your third party browser, be honest and post the truth. You will be installing Windows 7 because the Google ADWARE OS will be completely incompatible as an Apple OS.

Right, that's two fanboy camps insulted now. Let's see who cries the most while I laugh in compatibility heaven! ;-p

you are talking out of your ass about the superiority of IE... tell me one feature that you can not find on other browsers.

Let me start IE8.... it's standard home page is msn.com (owned by Microsoft), it looks like this:

http://img353.imageshack.us/i/capturar.jpg/

msn.com

can you spot an ad? if your answer is no then go see the eye doctor.

i will not post a screencap of google.com, i think its relatively obvious that you can not see an ad anywhere:

google.com

who is making money out of who every time you open your browser?

plus the fact that (IIRC) of the 10 most visited sites in the world 9 belong to google, statistically what is the most probable site that you will use as a home page?

"Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery", i think you will find that windows 7 has copied some moves from Apple OS's book... just saying...

been using windows 7 for some time now... the first time i had to re-install it was when thought: "IE must have evolved into something better since the last time i used it... lets try it out".

I am perfectly happy with open source software, thanks to the fact that they are open source, people can spot holes and faults faster and create variations that do not contain certain parts or contain extra parts that are useful or cool.

I love variety and love to use several variants of the same thing to see what is better and what is worse.

There was once a person that told me not to feed trolls and fanatic fanboys, consider this your last meal from my hands.

ps: compatibility heaven? compatibility over your own standards or compatibility over real standards?
crazyceo 20th July 2009, 00:49 Quote
This is hilarious.

How can you all spout the alledged superiority of other third party browsers when you don't even know how to use IE8.

All of the rants on this topic haven't proved a damn thing or shown me anything that is an improvement over IE8.

Steve-o is right to talk down the laughable competition of the Google/Linux OS.

Go play in the open source yawnfest topics girls whilst I enjoy the true compatibilty heaven that doesn't require me to download software and install patches to open anemail attachment.

Linux trolls you really don't have a clue just like the iCrap fanboys.
DXR_13KE 20th July 2009, 01:12 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyceo
This is hilarious.

How can you all spout the alledged superiority of other third party browsers when you don't even know how to use IE8.

All of the rants on this topic haven't proved a damn thing or shown me anything that is an improvement over IE8.

Steve-o is right to talk down the laughable competition of the Google/Linux OS.

Go play in the open source yawnfest topics girls whilst I enjoy the true compatibilty heaven that doesn't require me to download software and install patches to open anemail attachment.

Linux trolls you really don't have a clue just like the iCrap fanboys.

You have yet to show us a point where IE8 is superior to other browsers...

As for compatibility heaven... have you tried to see if IE8 is compatible with internet standards? Try making IE8 pass an acid3 test with a value similar to third party browsers.

As for downloading and installing software and patches to open email attachments in linux or iCrap? have you tried one or the other? have you used one of them for a significant period of time? please name the linux distribution that you used.

thank you.
crazyceo 20th July 2009, 09:11 Quote
Why would I change to 2nd or 3rd rate offerings? I'm happy with the world's most used and loved operating system and software solutions.

I don't doubt that you are more than happy with your choices and comfortable with the certain restrictions or limitations. However, you must accept that hardware and software developers just cannot justify putting the work or money into different standards when some just aren't going to be used by many potential customers.

If Apple can't get it done with all it's financial backing then what chance for free open source offerings. The community will surely help but to what standard?

It's purely a numbers game and unfortunately the competition is just too far behind to make any real challenge.
Rkiver 20th July 2009, 09:24 Quote
I run multiple systems. XP, Vista, Windows 7, linux and Mac. I will give google Chrome a look when it comes out, and if it's nice I'll stick it on my eeepc.

crazyceo: For some reason you remind me of religious zealots who refuse to comprehend what is said to them. Microsoft is not the most trusted company in the world. The lawsuits in the EU that they have faced show that. The fact multiple countries have moved their systems off Microsoft based operating systems onto open source for security reasons also points out the flaws in your arguements.

Now I do agree that just downloading stuff willy nilly is a bad idea, but Firefox and Chrome have been shown to be safer the IE8 overall. Yes they've had issues, but what program hasn't? Using Linux does not open you up to move viruses and the like. It closes you off to most of them.

All in all your posts come across as drivel. If you want to make your points there are ways to do it without being so confrontational.
impar 20th July 2009, 10:55 Quote
Greetings!
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyceo
Why would I change to 2nd or 3rd rate offerings?
Problem is that you cant evaluate software. Your loss.
Granted, IE has come a long way in its last two versions (IE7 and IE8). Now it is usable.
DraigUK 20th July 2009, 12:29 Quote
Google as an OS will have about as much impact on microsoft, as MS will on Google as a search engine.
DXR_13KE 20th July 2009, 12:49 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyceo
Why would I change to 2nd or 3rd rate offerings?

Then you haven't used them... how can you have an opinion on something you know nothing about?
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyceo
I'm happy with the world's most used and loved operating system and software solutions.

in a world where you only have bad tasting potatoes to eat do you eat the bad tasting potatoes or you die of hunger? Also, what is the most common OS for servers? What is the most common OS in China? why?
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyceo
I don't doubt that you are more than happy with your choices and comfortable with the certain restrictions or limitations. However, you must accept that hardware and software developers just cannot justify putting the work or money into different standards when some just aren't going to be used by many potential customers.

What limitations? tell me ONE limitation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyceo
If Apple can't get it done with all it's financial backing then what chance for free open source offerings. The community will surely help but to what standard?

The community can and will churn out high quality software, if you don't know what i am talking about please go find out what i am talking about. IF you can not find what i am talking about i will post a small list for you to see.
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyceo
It's purely a numbers game and unfortunately the competition is just too far behind to make any real challenge.

The numbers game says that we should still be using kerosene to light our houses and horses to push our wagons....
Quote:
Originally Posted by DraigUK
Google as an OS will have about as much impact on microsoft, as MS will on Google as a search engine.

I think the impact will be similar to the impact google chrome, the browser, has had on browsers.

Imagine that this OS is lightning fast, is open source, is light as a feather, comes with lots of applications pre-installed and somehow has some sort of compatibility system for gaming similar to cedega (i wish i had the ability to send an email to someone in google and hint them to buy or mass licence from transgaming). [/wishful thinking]
crazyceo 20th July 2009, 12:56 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rkiver


crazyceo: For some reason you remind me of religious zealots who refuse to comprehend what is said to them. Microsoft is not the most trusted company in the world.

All in all your posts come across as drivel. If you want to make your points there are ways to do it without being so confrontational.

Well sorry to burst your bubble but for 2009 it is:- http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8149460.stm

It lost out to Google last year probably due to the bad reporting of Vista but now it's back as 'King of the UK Brands'.

Yes choice is a good thing but not at the expense of claiming superiority just because a person doesn't like Microsoft for being too big.

Drivel? and what was your fantastic point again? oh yes, it was disproved above.

Confrontational? I reply the same way as the previous posts by other anti-microsoft rants.
crazyceo 20th July 2009, 13:32 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by DXR_13KE
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyceo
Why would I change to 2nd or 3rd rate offerings?

Then you haven't used them... how can you have an opinion on something you know nothing about?
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyceo
I'm happy with the world's most used and loved operating system and software solutions.

in a world where you only have bad tasting potatoes to eat do you eat the bad tasting potatoes or you die of hunger? Also, what is the most common OS for servers? What is the most common OS in China? why?
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyceo
I don't doubt that you are more than happy with your choices and comfortable with the certain restrictions or limitations. However, you must accept that hardware and software developers just cannot justify putting the work or money into different standards when some just aren't going to be used by many potential customers.

What limitations? tell me ONE limitation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyceo
If Apple can't get it done with all it's financial backing then what chance for free open source offerings. The community will surely help but to what standard?

The community can and will churn out high quality software, if you don't know what i am talking about please go find out what i am talking about. IF you can not find what i am talking about i will post a small list for you to see.
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyceo
It's purely a numbers game and unfortunately the competition is just too far behind to make any real challenge.

The numbers game says that we should still be using kerosene to light our houses and horses to push our wagons....
Quote:
Originally Posted by DraigUK
Google as an OS will have about as much impact on microsoft, as MS will on Google as a search engine.

I think the impact will be similar to the impact google chrome, the browser, has had on browsers.

Imagine that this OS is lightning fast, is open source, is light as a feather, comes with lots of applications pre-installed and somehow has some sort of compatibility system for gaming similar to cedega (i wish i had the ability to send an email to someone in google and hint them to buy or mass licence from transgaming). [/wishful thinking]

1) I have and still stand by my previous accurate statement

2) I see it as Microsoft users are all eating Caviar and drinking Dom Perignon and no one is hungry. Of course there is the minority of Linux, Apple users who eat Burgers, Fries and drink Coke and I suppose that does stop them from starving. Funny how that finger can be turned around isn't it?

3) My Sony Camera won't work with Linux or Apple. I've tried it and the LIMITATIONS are too much. Thats one of many but you only asked for one.

4) Yes, the community will churn out patches, software but again I stand by my previous accurate statement.

5) What a pathetic statement to make which offers no explanation at all.

6) The difference being that Bing is a new and improved search system which has been purchased by Microsoft actually using a newer search calculation system than of Google. Read up on it and most informed people are claiming it is a better search system but it's early days and Google have promised an overhaul of their system. Also, it's a number's game and unfortunately for Google that if Bing get it right, then people will just use the default search engine with their browser.

In closing, I too dream of an OS that is lightning fast, is light as a feather, comes with lots of applications pre-installed and somehow has some sort of compatibility system for gaming. It's called Windows 7!
DXR_13KE 20th July 2009, 14:19 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyceo
1) I have and still stand by my previous accurate statement

2) I see it as Microsoft users are all eating Caviar and drinking Dom Perignon and no one is hungry. Of course there is the minority of Linux, Apple users who eat Burgers, Fries and drink Coke and I suppose that does stop them from starving. Funny how that finger can be turned around isn't it?

3) My Sony Camera won't work with Linux or Apple. I've tried it and the LIMITATIONS are too much. Thats one of many but you only asked for one.

4) Yes, the community will churn out patches, software but again I stand by my previous accurate statement.

5) What a pathetic statement to make which offers no explanation at all.

6) The difference being that Bing is a new and improved search system which has been purchased by Microsoft actually using a newer search calculation system than of Google. Read up on it and most informed people are claiming it is a better search system but it's early days and Google have promised an overhaul of their system. Also, it's a number's game and unfortunately for Google that if Bing get it right, then people will just use the default search engine with their browser.

In closing, I too dream of an OS that is lightning fast, is light as a feather, comes with lots of applications pre-installed and somehow has some sort of compatibility system for gaming. It's called Windows 7!


1) so you have... then indicate what other 3td party software and Operating systems that you have used.

2) a more accurate view is that windows users are eating Caviar and drinking Dom Perignon until suddenly you have to call them (my call is routed to Brazil) and ask for another activation of the service while others have a nice balanced diet of whatever they want whenever they want! It is strange how your Caviar and Dom Perignon is served to you by unix based servers in India....

3) Sony... that explains a lot, IIRC you can use F-Spot or DigiKam, these come pre-installed on most current linux operating systems, do you need to install drivers on windows so that you can access your photos? Please indicate another limitation, or a list of limitations, if you wish.

4) Standards are standards, anyone can make software on that standard (unless its locked, in that case you have to pay royalties, like in HDMI), you can see this happening on internet standards, a huge company with enormous financial backing like MS cant get past 20 on an acid3 test, community made Konqueror (old as hell and rarely used) gets about 87... what does this tell you? (chrome gets 100)

5) Numbers game, by your view: "It's purely a numbers game and unfortunately the competition is just too far behind to make any real challenge."

So if the competition is far behind and far to small then they are no real challenge, if they are no real challenge then the company that owns the majority of the market will always own the majority of the market, before electric lighting became affordable and standard the great majority of lighting was from kerosene and oil lamps, if your statement is true than we should still be using oil lamps, at that time "the competition was just too far behind to make any real challenge"...

Change happens, just look at what happened to almost every email system capacity after gmail appeared. Or how multi tab browsing became standard after almost every third party browsers implemented it.

6) lets see if Bing is good, if its good then there will be lots of people changing sides... one of them will be me, I go with the best offer, the best offer now, by far, is Google, this may or may not change in the future.


In closing, can you please indicate me a list of pre-installed applications on windows 7 and their functions?
crazyceo 20th July 2009, 14:39 Quote
1) Why? I've used a number for various of tasks and can honestly say I just won't be using them again. Regardless which one I say, you are going to come back with "Ah well, you needed to use this one instead" As to Apple, the less said the better. Just overpriced shiny things for people stupid enough to pay that much for a desktop with laptop components with an OS that really isn't as user friendly as the Apple lovers claim.

2) I had to call Microsoft last month to reactiviate my WHS software and I spoke to an English speaking person in England! Who would have thought that was possible? Caviar and Dom Perignon all round!

3) "Sony....that explains a lot?" So is it every major corporation you have a beef with? SO are you saying that not only do I have use inferior OS but I also have to buy inferior hardware as well? The Camera is top of its price range and given 10 out of 10 by lots of independent reviewers. I actually didn't have to install any additional software or drivers when first plugged into Windows Vista, Windows 7. I was looking at my images within seconds!

4) "what does this tell you?" It tells me nothing and again I stand by my previous accurate statement.

5) Again you have carried on your ridiculous statement which offers no explanation at all.

6) Yes I agree with you.

In closing, you can go here if you like http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows7/products/home?os=win7 it kind of explains it all and you really should no the competition before you badmouth it.
DXR_13KE 20th July 2009, 15:40 Quote
1) are you afraid to tell me what versions you used?

2) every time i call to activate my xp installation i talk to a Brazilian man with a speech problem... s*** and piss all round!

3) I don't have a beef with every major corporation, the majority of them like to play along with each other, when i say that it explains a lot its because i know that sony does not like to play along with standards, nor they like to play along with other companies, nor they like to play along with their clients (unless you do it their way, no more, no less.) . Can i ask what model is your camera?

4) Well, it tells me that your IE8, made from compatibility heaven, is not compatible with internet STANDARDS.
Also, please refrain from using "previous accurate statement", you somehow remember me a religious fanatic...

5) You said:

"It's purely a numbers game and unfortunately the competition is just too far behind to make any real challenge."

therefore any company that enters a market where there is a monopoly is doomed to not be any real challenge. correct?

i will continue this after you say if you agree or don't agree with the previous statement, if you do not agree with the previous statement please correct it until it represents your views.

if you refuse to do either then i will have to send you into the religious fanatic bin that i have reserved for religious fanatics.

6) Good, for a moment there i was loosing faith in humanity.


7) lets see that link.... hmmmm.... nice.... ow wait, my start bar is very similar to that.... ow yeah, i am using windows 7, lets pop the start menu and see what software comes pre-installed:

Paint
wordpad
IE8
CD/DVD burner
calculator
media player
a nifty print screen tool
sticky notes
widgets
a handfull of games
....

that's about it
did i miss anything?
do you want to complete the list?
after your post i will boot to a standards linux distribution and indicate you the software that comes pre-installed.

ps: i am using windows 7 and i am liking it, it has a mac/linux feel to it, good job at imitating others MS, all in all, i think its a good jump in quality for MS.
crazyceo 20th July 2009, 15:58 Quote
1) No, I'm not

2) Already answered with my purely positive experience.

3) So you agree that you are against larger organisations protecting their product and copyrights?

4) Praise be to Allah!

5) For Allah's sake! there was nothing wrong with my previous accurate statement in the first place.

6) Yes I was agreeing with you that you will be using Bing in the near future.

In closing, after you have listed the apps that come with a standard linux distribution. Put a tick next to the ones that are compatible with the 95% of the planet using Windows based OS or whether they are peripheral friendly out of the box.

Hang on, scratch that since it's not going to prove anything at all other than any muppet can create an app for Linux.

Welcome to the Windows 7 club of compatibility heaven! it must be such a refreshing change.
DXR_13KE 20th July 2009, 16:06 Quote
Into the fanatic bin you go... it was a pleasure meting you, and yes, you are afraid to list the OS's you have used because you will lie, you have never used a linux based distribution in your life.

In closing, i have to hear the advice of others more often: "If it looks like a troll, talks like a troll and smells like a troll, DON'T FEED IT"

Thank you.
crazyceo 20th July 2009, 16:38 Quote
Funny I was thinking the same thing about you.

What? you don't want to answer my questions now?

Who cares whether it was Ubuntu or Suse? That fact was it didn't do what I wanted it to do.

It's easy to call somebody a troll when you are unprepared to discuss your own failings. So what of it, if I live under a bridge and eat goats?

You have proved again that the Linux community has nothing but distain for all things Microsoft whether they are better or not for no reason other than jealousy.
DXR_13KE 20th July 2009, 17:25 Quote
1) then list the distributions, if you do not list them then you are a liar or a coward, you choose.

2) and then i gave you my purely negative experience.

3) a company is within its rights to protect it's copyright and patents, also, a company is also entitled to be a dick and close up every single thing and not play nice with anyone.

4) then you admit that IE8 is not compatible with several internet standards? how is that compatibility heaven?

5) the statement :
"It's purely a numbers game and unfortunately the competition is just too far behind to make any real challenge."
is completely correct:
"there was nothing wrong with my previous accurate statement in the first place."

Therefore i can take your statement and test it within the real world, if your statement is true then we should see companies still retain monopolies or a majority share of the market, even after a competitor appears, correct?

i will finish this after you indicate if my statement is correct or not.

6) i will use Bing if Bing is superior to Google, at this moment Google is by far superior, if this changes i will change search engine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyceo

In closing, after you have listed the apps that come with a standard linux distribution. Put a tick next to the ones that are compatible with the 95% of the planet using Windows based OS or whether they are peripheral friendly out of the box.

Hang on, scratch that since it's not going to prove anything at all other than any muppet can create an app for Linux.

In sum, your views are not changeable, even if i shown you that there is a alternative OS that is far superior in every aspect, gave you concrete proof, reviews, free cds, etc... you wouldn't change your mind, therefore debating with you is like debating with a brick, its pointless and futile.
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyceo
Welcome to the Windows 7 club of compatibility heaven! it must be such a refreshing change.

yeah, it kind of fells like linux... only less modifiable and configurable... and less compatible with some of my previous hardware...

BUT i have to hand it to you, it is far superior than XP or vista, thank God that MS heard the community and copied several things from other OS's and third party browsers.

Now that i responded to your questions, i have my own questions:


What did you want to do that Ubuntu or Suse prevented you from doing?

What is your camera model?

lastly and more important:

Is there any possibility of you changing your views? Even if insurmountable proof was presented to you?
crazyceo 20th July 2009, 17:39 Quote
Yes, just as soon as you change yours! there isn't any point in answering the rest since you have failed to acknowledge the previous accurate statements post previously.

You couldn't show me a superior OS in the first place so quit the assumpions that you could. In the "Real World" you still need Microsoft. However, I don't need a distribution of Linux or Mac or Google.
thehippoz 20th July 2009, 18:07 Quote
he's a crazy ceo! microsoft 2008 server is pretty nice, you can setup nfs client or server so it can work with unix machines.. actually wish they'd put this into vista- you can only client into from what I've seen.. read some claims of guys mounting nfs shares in vista using the unix sdk but it didn't work for me

admit though my home network is 100% billdo.. the linux vs windows vs mac argument can't ever be won.. except well maybe mac nowdays- I dunno how many more dingles they can harvest before jobs kicks the bucket
DXR_13KE 20th July 2009, 18:10 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyceo
Yes, just as soon as you change yours! there isn't any point in answering the rest since you have failed to acknowledge the previous accurate statements post previously.

Unlike you i have the capability to change my views, also, if you can, please state my views on this subject.

Also, what "accurate" statements are those?
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyceo
You couldn't show me a superior OS in the first place so quit the assumpions that you could.

I got the same response from some Jehovah's Witnesses when i asked them: "if i showed without doubt that God wants a person to receive a transfusion would you change your views?"

You are at a similar level to these fanatics, congratulations. (not fanatic Muslims, fanatic Christians, they are far worse!).

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyceo
In the "Real World" you still need Microsoft. However, I don't need a distribution of Linux or Mac or Google.

In the "Real World" you still need open source software... what kind of OS do most servers use? What kind of kernel do most routers use?

Also, what is the most common OS for a graphic designer?

What is the most used Search engine in the world?

Imagine that i removed linux, mac and google from the world, what would happen?

In summary i can see that you are a fanatic fanboy (at a level that is equal or superior to religious fanatics), a liar and a coward. (you are a liar and a coward because you refused to list the distributions you used and also failed to chose one of the options)

Thank you for proving my point. ;)
Coldon 20th July 2009, 18:14 Quote
wow, fanboy heaven in this thread...

firstly, if a software package is open source its not necessarily a good thing, in most cases its often a bad thing.

secondly, chrome is a decent browser, it was just plagued with a massive amount of security issues during launch.

IE8 is pretty much standard compliant in most regards and the few areas it isnt wont even be noticed to a large extent (I speak as a web developer), firefox while fully compliant sometimes exhibits incorrect rendering behaviour as well...

Linux has a lot more hardware compatibility issues than windows, i can name several high end piece of hardware (namely raid controllers that have absolutely no linux support). It is not more secure either, it just doesnt get attacked as often. OS X is based on a freeBSD base which is supposedly more secure than a standard linux distro and yet here we have worms and trojans hitting OS X systems. Any security professional will tell you that linux / freeBSD / windows are all just as vulnerable...

The upside of the MS world is that their security teams are pretty much on the ball and patch major security holes extremely quickly, everyone goes on and on about how IE8 is a bad browser, but all the firefox vulnerabilities seem to get ignored, *cough* javascript exploit in 3.5 *cough* (how long did that exploit take to get patched).

The new OS is targeted at netbooks, it is NOT supposed to be a fully fledged OS!!! I swear you people cant read, its not meant to replace linux, windows, OS X... its targeted at the casual netbook user. It will be like the asus EEE os...

As for the idiots that go on and on about openGL, have you even tried to develop using it, its a ****ing mess, a complete nightmare of random incompatible extensions, and hacked on functionality. openGL 3.0 is barely where DX10 is, never mind where DX11 is. No developer in their right mind would choose openGL over directx these days.

The only major issue I see with the chrome OS is that if their base it on a linux kernel with chrome as the GUI, there will be a application compatibility issue. I'm pretty sure that apps will have to be entirely rewritten for the new OS, in this regard a linux distro or win7 would be a better choice.

This is not an OS aimed at power users, but the average joe, and if experience has taught us anything it will probably be an average quality one at that. The only thing google does exceptionally is search, mail/docs/calendar/etc are all average at best, they are not exceptional nor revolutionary applications. Gmail has been down several times in the last few months, which is pretty unacceptable.

Google seems to just want to have a hand in everything instead of focusing on a few key areas and improving them.
DXR_13KE 20th July 2009, 18:25 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldon
*snip*

Nicely representative of my point of view, thank you.;)

edit: my POV is a balance, i like having lots of tools to work with, this balances flaws in each design.

edit2: do you have a source on that RAID controller claim? thank you in advance.
Coldon 20th July 2009, 18:25 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by DXR_13KE

In the "Real World" you still need open source software... what kind of OS do most servers use? What kind of kernel do most routers use?

server OS are still windows dominated : http://blogs.zdnet.com/ITFacts/?p=8708 (newer source: http://in.reuters.com/article/technologyNews/idINIndia-32190720080228 )

even the web server is evenly divided between IIS and apache.

alot of routers are cisco, and they use their own closed source, non linux based OS. microtik is a pretty large linux router OS tho.

Also, what is the most common OS for a graphic designer?

still windows: photoshop sells more windows copies than mac copies. Lets not forget maya and 3ds max. The whole mac's are better for design is utter BS, why are they better, they have the exact same hardware as PC's, exactly the same or worse screens, exact same software. What design software is mac exclusive? the only software package I know is mac exclusive and is epic is final cut pro. Never mind that a lot of high end fine art printers have no OS X driver support. I still remember attending a massive mac expo with sound and lighting and all that jazz, all being controlled via windows machines since all the equipment had no OS X hardware support.

What is the most used Search engine in the world? google

Imagine that i removed linux, mac and google from the world, what would happen? Not too much...

Losing google: we lose a great search engine, we still have a bunch of other search engines that might not be as accurate (relative) as google personally in several occasions I've had to use other search engines since google couldn't find any results. We'll loose one webmail client (there are countless others) and some medicore cloud computing apps...

Linux and OS X has its place but the world wont come to a stand still if we lose 10% of the market. Linux is still by far an enthusiast OS, its not suited for daily office use, it is still a valuable OS in regard to networking and server applications.
DXR_13KE 20th July 2009, 18:42 Quote
Good, crazyceo take note of what Coldon is doing, he is giving me facts based on data that he can show me.

Thanks to this Coldon is changing my views on mac usage, server usage and router kernels.

My views are changed and are stronger, thank you Coldon.

Also, can you respond to the edit2 of my previous post? "do you have a source on that RAID controller claim?" i would like to read more on that.

Linux is a strange animal, it varies a lot between distributions, the one i am more used to, Ubuntu, is a very good OS for every day use, i even have it as a live-pendrive, it works nicely as a swiss knife.
Coldon 20th July 2009, 18:51 Quote
i cant seem to find the raid reference, but i remember reading about a very irate guy on the XS forums that bought a high end raid controller only to find out there is no official linux support from the company, he got it kinda working but the performance was atrocious. I've also encountered several high end pieces of hardware especially some obscure recording sound cards that had no linux support...

I know the 3ware RAID cards struggle under linux, in most cases with enough hacking and tweaking you can probably get it going with reduced functionality or performance. Often times its just not worth the effort.

Linux is a good OS, but fanboys tend to overexxagerate its strengths, its no better and no worse that windows or OS X. Its more configurable but that comes at the cost of catastrophic failure, its not a nice feeling installing something only to find yourself staring at a kernel panic screen...
DXR_13KE 20th July 2009, 19:23 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldon
i cant seem to find the raid reference, but i remember reading about a very irate guy on the XS forums that bought a high end raid controller only to find out there is no official linux support from the company, he got it kinda working but the performance was atrocious. I've also encountered several high end pieces of hardware especially some obscure recording sound cards that had no linux support...

I know the 3ware RAID cards struggle under linux, in most cases with enough hacking and tweaking you can probably get it going with reduced functionality or performance. Often times its just not worth the effort.

hardware support is always growing with linux, some things that did not work in the past work now, i remember when graphic card support was amazingly bad, wifi drivers were nowhere to be found and you had to hack about everything to make something work, but that was 4 or 5 years ago, now you can use most hardware out of the box, in some cases even before you open the box due to live cds.

you want stupid hardware support? i have a 120€ pinnacle pro tv card that is in a box, SP2 made it stop working, only thing that made it work was knoppix... this was about 5 years ago, ubuntu can also run it out of the box, no current MS OS supports it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldon
Linux is a good OS, but fanboys tend to overexxagerate its strengths, its no better and no worse that windows or OS X. Its more configurable but that comes at the cost of catastrophic failure, its not a nice feeling installing something only to find yourself staring at a kernel panic screen...

you are correct ;)
Coldon 20th July 2009, 19:30 Quote
yeh linux is often better at supporting older tech, then again often times you dont get 100% support of all the feature. You cant really blame MS for hardware support, its not their fault nor their department.

Off topic: Those damn TV cards were more trouble than they were worth, i had two of the damn things that not even Linux could identify... Nevermind all the grief i had with the brooktree 848 based TV cards :( Thats why i always buy products from large companies with proven track records in regards to updates.
DXR_13KE 20th July 2009, 19:39 Quote
knoppix and ubuntu kind of increased the tv card's abilities....

[offtopic]: pinnacle was kind of large... and i had no internet at that time... so yah, no pinnacle for me ever!

Weren't those brooktree 848 based TV cards the ones that could decode paid channels?

SP2 also broke the compatibility with an awesome parallel port scanner I still have... BAH, at least it forced me to get a new better one.

i wonder what happened to make these devices incompatible....[/offtopic]
Gareth Halfacree 20th July 2009, 21:53 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldon
I know the 3ware RAID cards struggle under linux, in most cases with enough hacking and tweaking you can probably get it going with reduced functionality or performance. Often times its just not worth the effort.
Not sure that they do any more - 3Ware's performance under Linux is something pretty damn impressive, and they work out of the box with no drivers or tweaking required these days.

Example: the SATA-2 9650, which is supported by Microsoft® Windows® 2003/XP/2000, Red Hat Linux, SuSE Linux, Fedora Linux, 2.4 Linux kernel, 2.6 Linux kernel, FreeBSD; 32/64-bit driver support for Windows, Linux and FreeBSD (my emphasis).

If you're looking for something a little more enterprise grade, the LSI Logic 7404 Fibre-Channel card is officially certified to work with SuSE, RedHat, and Fedora. It'll run fine under other Linux systems, too.

Sure, hardware support used to suck under Linux: those times have changed.
impar 21st July 2009, 11:43 Quote
Greetings!

Crazyceo, a comment?
Microsoft releases Linux kernel drivers
DXR_13KE 21st July 2009, 13:18 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by impar
Greetings!

Crazyceo, a comment?
Microsoft releases Linux kernel drivers

the probability of him returning is near zero.
crazyceo 21st July 2009, 14:23 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by DXR_13KE
Quote:
Originally Posted by impar
Greetings!

Crazyceo, a comment?
Microsoft releases Linux kernel drivers

the probability of him returning is near zero.

Why is that? because you now seem to be converted? pillock!

Yes it's quite a good move by Microsoft as it will clearly benefit them in the long run.
LightningPete 21st July 2009, 16:05 Quote
Its a shame all you folks are arguing like little children over differences of normative opinions... How about trying the OS's youlove or like the look of, and keep both your religious PC fanatical views to each other.

Finally... I wish someone would create OS's based upon what people use PC's for primarily... A bit like mircrosoft has, but not quite right. I want something that doesnt have a stack (like windows stack) that will inevitably add on extra ping to the already global tragedy we call home internet; an OS thats compatible for all games.. and generally runs in line with hardware in particular that would give more FPS than another FPS game.... A gamers OS would be great, and then a numerous set of other OS's designed for specific tasks..... e.g. Basic Office, Gamers series, Multimedia Editor series, Business/Server series and so forth...
LightningPete 21st July 2009, 16:07 Quote
EDIT
Quote:
Originally Posted by LightningPete
. and generally runs in line with hardware in particular that would give more FPS than another OS for example xxx vs windows ...
DXR_13KE 21st July 2009, 16:23 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyceo
Why is that?

well... you did admit that you are a liar and a coward... and like most liars and cowards that come to these forums usually tend to disappear, good to see that the MS fanboy is still alive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyceo
because you now seem to be converted?

converted to what?
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyceo
pillock
Quote:
pillock - a person who is not very bright

Thank God i am not a fanboy like you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyceo
Yes it's quite a good move by Microsoft as it will clearly benefit them in the long run.

Can you expand that reasoning without contradicting yourself?
crazyceo 21st July 2009, 18:33 Quote
1) Where are the lies? and why am I a coward? since I've constantly answered your pathetic excuse for questions at every turn.

It is you who is the coward here which was clearly shown by your response to coldon when you quickly backed down and agreed with everything that was said in defence of Microsoft.

2) Read it idiot and tell me where it is contradicting?

3) You are a fanboy of all things Microsoft, that's the only reason I can think of you trying to put your 2 pence worth in on every Microsoft topic.

Go and play in the Linux topics where you and the rest can secretly plan the downfall of everything Microsoft, Sony and any other corporation that you hippies seem to disagree with them making money.
DXR_13KE 21st July 2009, 19:07 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyceo
1) Where are the lies? and why am I a coward? since I've constantly answered your pathetic excuse for questions at every turn.

It is you who is the coward here which was clearly shown by your response to coldon when you quickly backed down and agreed with everything that was said in defence of Microsoft.

2) Read it idiot and tell me where it is contradicting?

3) You are a fanboy of all things Microsoft, that's the only reason I can think of you trying to put your 2 pence worth in on every Microsoft topic.

Go and play in the Linux topics where you and the rest can secretly plan the downfall of everything Microsoft, Sony and any other corporation that you hippies seem to disagree with them making money.

1)
You answered none of my questions, you avoided them all.

Proof that you are a liar and a coward:
Quote:
Originally Posted by DXR_13KE
1) then list the distributions, if you do not list them then you are a liar or a coward, you choose.
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyceo
Yes, just as soon as you change yours! there isn't any point in answering the rest since you have failed to acknowledge the previous accurate statements post previously.

QED

2) calling me idiot will only make your side of the debate look like a clown show, congratulations.

with:
Quote:
Originally Posted by DXR_13KE
Can you expand that reasoning without contradicting yourself?
i am asking you to point out why do you think that:
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyceo
Yes it's quite a good move by Microsoft as it will clearly benefit them in the long run.
give me a reason why giving code to the open source community is beneficial to MS if MS can thrive without the open source community.


3) From what ass did you pull that from? How the hell can i be a "MS fanboy" and "secretly plan the downfall of everything Microsoft, Sony and any other corporation"?

it boggles the mind!!

I think the pillock around here is you... look at how coldon wrote his points of view and how he accepted prof that proved his views were incorrect, that is how a normal person should behave, not like you.

If you continue being a troll i will have no choice but to ignore you from now on and report any post you make that is offensive or is made to start a flame war. ;)
crazyceo 21st July 2009, 19:29 Quote
1) Ubuntu which I'm sure I said earlier. So how does that make me a liar and a coward?

2) If you actually read the other topic it clearly states that if someone wishes to use Linux in virtualisation they can though the server needs to be windows based. By using a Microsoft Server OS, the admin will have the option to offer windows based OS and Linux through virtualisation. Microsoft make money!

3) I see you are still here in the Microsoft topic, Microsoft Fanboy!
DXR_13KE 21st July 2009, 19:50 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyceo
1) Ubuntu which I'm sure I said earlier. So how does that make me a liar and a coward?

2) If you actually read the other topic it clearly states that if someone wishes to use Linux in virtualisation they can though the server needs to be windows based. By using a Microsoft Server OS, the admin will have the option to offer windows based OS and Linux through virtualisation. Microsoft make money!

3) I see you are still here in the Microsoft topic, Microsoft Fanboy!

1)
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyceo
Who cares whether it was Ubuntu or Suse?

You did not specify (they are relatively different), i asked you to specify which one you used.

Good, you are no more considered a liar or a coward. By the way, do you know what version of ubuntu you used (you can just give me the year and approximate month if you wish) ? Also, could you indicate the model of your Sony camera? I am curious on how it is not compatible with Mac and linux.

2) Good. If you had written that in your previous post we would not be here.

3) Are you saying that with a strait face or a funny face?
A microsoft fanboy is a fanatic fan of microsoft, this person defends microsoft and everything they do (even if they do utter crap), they also refuse to use other OSs other than the ones made by MS and tell everyone that everything beyond MS is crap and should not be used.

Now go read what me and you said in this thread, from the 2 of us who is more probable of being a microsoft fanboy? Do i fit into a fanboy profile? what kind of fanboy am I?

ps: i am still here because i love to debate ;)
crazyceo 21st July 2009, 21:09 Quote
1) It was 9.04 netbook edition and it was in direct comparison to XP and Windows7 RC. Don't take this as another dig at Linux but I don't understand why someone would remove their OEM OS for Linux. Unless everything you have in the house Server, Mediacentre, desktops, laptops etc... are all Linux based. As you were saying earlier, Linux doesn't seem to have a problem with older PC components but I have new ones that would just fall over if I installed a Linux distribution. Take my Antec HTPC case for instance, it comes with the iMon VFD screen which diplays system details etc.. Reading the community, people have really had problems sourcing drivers etc. It's not that perfect with Vista but at least it works which is more that can be said with a Linux OS.

The camera is a Sony T700 which unfortunately wasn't even recognised by Ubuntu. I would have had to go and find a compatible driver and then use whichever app was available for processing and editing. It just wasn't plug and play the way even XP is. You can find the help on forums and such but unless hardware providers include a linux version within their bundles software then it becomes a ball ache that no one should really be experiencing. As for the Apple experiment, well lets just say that people don't buy Apple products for the OS or bundled software. It's for the new Shiny toy. That's probably why we also experience compatibility issues on Mac OS. Even Mac realised they couldn't compete in the business world against Microsoft Office and were quick to get a Mac Microsoft Office released. Since I use Microsoft Office products 03 and 07 on a regular basis then unless it's a simple process then there is no point using anything else.

2) Nuff Said!

3) It wasn't really that straight, more tilted to one side. The problem with this Microsoft fanboy thing is that it can be pointed against you in the same way. You get some who for what ever reason will badmouth Microsoft for absolutely no reason other than the fact that they can't afford the software for their machine. OK most come with an OS but since we are on an enthusiast site most will build their own PC's. Microsoft are a huge company that has dominated the industry for decades and has it's fingers in many pies. So if one of those pies turns out not to be too good then all the anti=Microsoft fanboys come out and ride them as much as anyone is willing to listen. Take this topic for instance. Steve-0 just isn't bothered about a Google netbook OS. Let's be honest, he shouldn't be. He has Windows 7 coming out in October which even by your admission, it isn't bad. They have a netbook version coming out with a limit on the number of apps running, which makes sense. So by the time a Google netbook OS comes out, Windows 7 will already be in place and running pretty damn fine. Since we are now hearing that the big manufacturers are a little miffed on us all buying netbooks, we are now getting words that we should be buying ultra light/thin notebooks instead. So we will be using a full version OS then which may leave the Google OS in the dark. I'm not saying it's a good theory but at least it's a theory that may actually happen.

At best, the Google OS will open up the market to Linux distributions that normally wouldn't bother because they don't understand it. That was proved by the netbooks released with Linux, the returns even caught Microsoft out. They quickly extended the life span of XP and shipped it out with every Atom PC. With the Google brand, it may make some stay because they have heard of the brand. Again, it's not a good theory but it does look like we will find out next autumn.
DXR_13KE 22nd July 2009, 00:54 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by
crazyceo i remove my hat (after putting it on), salute you and extend my hand to give you a handshake (after i disinfect my hand of course, I don't want to contaminate you with swine flu), you have made a post that has made all the sense in the world, thank you.

Read the next as if i was writing it with a sincere smile on my face.

1) I use ubuntu from time to time, i like to decorate it and change it around, i like to play with the new additions that came with 9.04 like gnome do, i like to toy around with the tools a lot and be surprised with the interesting details that they put in, i remember a time when to share a file with a windows OS you needed to configure so many things that it was easier just to boot to windows and do it, now you can just right click, say share and it will share to any windows system that you want. IIRC the first version i used was 5.04, it has evolved immensely...

Most new hardware is relatively easy to get working with ubuntu, it depends mostly on the maker and on how much they close it/ develop for it, Nvidia and ATI are usually good with their linux drivers.

iMon VFD: http://www.soundgraph.com/Eng_/Products/imon25.aspx
very nice!
there are some guides on how to use it on ubuntu forums:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=306437&highlight=antec+VFD+fusion

If you wish to try it out during an evening when you are bored out of your mind and don't have anything interesting to do and you remember this conversation :D, and no, you don't need to install ubuntu, just run the live cd or live pendrive (ask me if you want to know how to do this easily), and use the regular version, not the netbook mix ;)

now lets search Sony T700... nice compact camera, very cute and strangely absent from ubuntu forums... hmmm... i will investigate this further when i find someone with that camera, i will ask them to lend it to me and see why it doesn't work. Storage devices usually work flawlessly with ubuntu, if by any chance you try what i said above, with the regular version of ubuntu, can you try to plug your camera in? it should appear like an icon on your desktop, to remove you right click and select unmount.

i am not asking you to do it, i am simply asking you to try this out IF you ever try a live cd or live pendrive, if you don't i wont be sad or mad, i will simply continue to be ignorant until i find someone with a camera similar to yours or you try it out and inform me on what happened ;).

I agree with you on macs .

As a side information, you can make office 2003 and 2007 (i'm not sure about this one) work on linux using wine.

2) *disinfects hand* high five!!!

3) for me to be a fanboy is to go against everything that has logic within me, really, i use software like i use my tools, i currently have more tools in my room than most people have in their entire house, i love to use several tools and mix and match them, operating systems are the same for me, i use anything that comes into my hands and try them out and then mix and match for maximum effect.

Windows 7 is immensely positive, far superior than any MS OS, it has some nags here and there, but i bet that they will go away in the final version, MS outdid themselves.

Ubuntu and other debian flavours are interesting in the fact that they do what every normal user would want to do, then they let you change them at your will and make them do crazy things, have you seen what you can do with compiz fusion? Have you tried installing applications? There are lots of details that are interesting.

Mac OS is Mac OS, it comes in a shiny stylish box, that can't be upgraded, and is enough for "most" tasks... that is all i have to say about macs, ow and their adds are funny.

Every OS has its strengths and its weaknesses. This also changes with perspective, for a power user, from one system, other systems look weak and flimsy or simply to locked and heavy.

Google OS will be interesting, i will test it, i will use it for a day or two, then i most certainly will remove it and go back to ubuntu/windows7 dual boot and install the packages that compose Google OS's cool parts.

As for browsers, i am not a web developer but i have currently installed on my laptop 6 browsers: firefox, chrome, IE8, opera, wyzo and safari.

Firefox is my main line browser, it does everything i want and has all the plugins i need, i usually open something like 50 tabs without much slowdown.

Chrome is fast as f*** and fast to use and open pages, it is also able to make some nifty shortcuts to pages that work like applications.

IE8 is there for pages that act funny and to play with from time to time.

the other 3 are to play with and test :D

I really don't care what the future will bring me in terms of software, i will use whatever comes to my hands at the most sensible price and functionality.

*disinfects hand, extends hand* Friends? ;)

edit: while i was typing this i remembered using an interesting camera from sony, it was a Sony Mavica, it did not use a memory stick, it used a floppy disk, amazing thing it was...
Rkiver 22nd July 2009, 12:10 Quote
crazyceo: Thank you for that post that actually explains your point of view rather then appearing to foam at the mouth, that's all any of us wanted.

I however have one slight correction.
Ubuntu netbook edition is not a direct comparisson to XP or W7. It's scaled down specificlaly for netbooks. XP and W7 are more rounded operating systems. That being said W7 does scale down very well for netbooks.

Google OS (Or Chrome: OS edition) will be something that will interest those of us who program for a living, or work with large servers and thin clients. Any new flavour of linux does that. We'll poke and prod it, and if it's good, adopt it. However those who use large server farms (like myself) will continue to use linux as the server OS of choice for a large number of reasons.

Microsoft is good at the desktop end of things (and with W7 I'd say they've hit the jackpot). That's where it should stay to be honest.
Google should stick at their browser and web apps. An OS may be a stretch to far.
Linux should really stick at servers, and maybe the odd desktop (ala Ubuntu).
Just my opinions. Nothing more.
Coldon 22nd July 2009, 13:48 Quote
a tip for forum arguments: never argue with an idiot, they first bring you down to their level and then beat you with experience :)

its ironic to see how almost every single topic dealing with MS, linux, OS X, firefox devolves into a mud slinging match, sigh... what was that saying i keep forgetting, ah "dont feed the troll"...
SpiroExDeus 28th August 2009, 19:35 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyceo
Who in their right mind wants a google OS that will only make money off everything you click on?

Do you want the Google toolbar? NO!
Do you want the Google Sidebar? NO F*^" Off!
Do you want the Google web browser, with all these included? NO for F*^"$ sake, I'm happy with what I've got!
Well how about a Google Operating System, with all these included? Why would I swap a perfectly running and well maintained operating system with a Google ADWARE OS, now where is my shotgun and get me the address of the Google CEO!!!!!

I think I'll stick with the No 1 Brand of 2009.......MICROSOFT!!!!! http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8149460.stm

It also looks like everyone else is too judging by the Windows7 pre-orders. So 95% of the planet will stay the same and the iCrap will keep their 1% of shiny things, whilst the remaining 4% switch from Linux to Google/Linux.

Hm. Minus points for slightly fanboy attitude.

But plus points for using the Universal greeting!
Shagbag 20th November 2009, 09:52 Quote
Chrome OS released yesterday.

It looks interesting. A smart move by Google in only going after netbooks (at this stage).
enumoran 20th November 2009, 12:16 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shagbag
Chrome OS released yesterday.

It looks interesting. A smart move by Google in only going after netbooks (at this stage).

Yep, way to go for google to go in to this market.
Nikumba 20th November 2009, 14:23 Quote
Of course I do hope if this becomes popular that Google gets bitch slapped with fines for being anti-competitive.

Kimbie
impar 20th November 2009, 21:25 Quote
Greetings!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikumba
Of course I do hope if this becomes popular that Google gets bitch slapped with fines for being anti-competitive.
Will never happen. Its a Linux distro.
Dont think you understand why Microsoft is being fined.
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