Pressure for investigation into Wi-Fi health risks

Pressure mounts on UK Government to investigate the health problems that may be linked to Wi-Fi.

The Independent on Sunday reports that pressure is mounting on the Health Protection Agency to launch a formal investigation into the use of Wi-Fi technologies and any adverse effects they could pose to users, especially in schools.

Sir William Stewart, chairman of the HPA, is calling for pupils in schools to be monitored for any ill effects from Wi-fi networks which "emit radiation and are being installed in classrooms across the nation."

Some scientists fear that Wi-Fi can cause cancer and premature senility -- some provincial governments across Europe already ban or limit the use of it in the classroom. Stowe School has reportedly partially removed Wi-Fi after a teacher became ill.

The pressure also comes from PAT, the Professional Association of Teachers, who are writing to the government to demand an official inquiry into what the Department of Education and Skills calls a "magical" system.

Yes, the Department of Education believes that Wi-Fi is 'magic'. Sensationalists across the country expect Bill Gates will soon be burned at the stake for techno-heresy.

A rational observer might also wonder at the proposed methods of the inquiry into what The Independent on Sunday calls 'electronic smog'. Observing schools with Wi-Fi systems in place and seeing how many sickdays children take doesn't seem exactly idiot-proof.

That said, an objective and scientific investigation into Wi-Fi may be a good idea given the limited information currently available on the topic. While investigators are at it, why not look at other massively available technologies that also transmit wirelessly like mobile phones or the Nintendo DS?

Cautious about Wi-Fi? Won't use a wireless mouse in case your hand drops off? Come to the forums and let us know!
Quote BioSniper 23rd April 2007, 17:42
I'm guessing this will be the same as all mobile phone investigations, it will yield little in the way of (useful) results.
Quote sinizterguy 23rd April 2007, 18:05
Its going to be completely pointless. Are people going to go over and make their neighbours stop using wifi to prevent them becoming ill ?

If anyone asks me to stop I will point them in the direction of the tin-foil hat which has the added benefit of stopping mind control rays.
Quote Echo 23rd April 2007, 18:14
Is there actually proof to show that wi-fi may possibly be damaging to health, even if it is slight?
Quote Tyinsar 23rd April 2007, 18:15
Quote:
Originally Posted by BioSniper
I'm guessing this will be the same as all mobile phone investigations, it will yield little in the way of (useful) results.
That's about what I expect also.

Personally I have avoided going wireless (with the exception of my lightly used cell phone) - all this extra radiation may or may not be harmful but it can't hurt to avoid any unneeded exposure. Besides that, wired connections are both more secure and easier to troubleshoot.
Quote lamboman 23rd April 2007, 18:32
This is stupid. I haven't got any problems with health, and I use Wi-Fi. I don't think they will find anything worth worrying about.
Quote casey_cole 23rd April 2007, 18:42
What a pile of BS... There's more harmful radiation coming out a blinkin' brick wall than a wireless router, cell phone, mobile mast or even *shock!* a TV.

Ridiculous health scare instigated primarily by people who just don't understand.

CC
Quote leexgx 23rd April 2007, 18:59
wifi power to low

Mobile power out put has an range of 2KM whare as wifi at best 20-30m indoors 50m out doors
bluethooth has range of about 10m

thay all run on 2.4ghz band more or less
Quote Spaceraver 23rd April 2007, 19:42
Glad i have my tinfoil beanie
Quote Bluephoenix 23rd April 2007, 19:49
the energy levels output by wireless routers are minimal. to damage cells it doesn't just take high frequency, it takes high amplitude (energy carried by waves).

I could sit in a room with something at 600GHz frequency, but if it had a small amplitude it would do nothing (the beta particles from the physical transmitter matter would be more harmful).

Cell towers are dangerous to stand close to because they have a high amplitude in order to carry the signal farther.

all-in-all, you're getting more radiation from a CRT than from any wi-fi network.
Quote AcidJiles 23rd April 2007, 20:25
i dont like wireless connections anyway, extra lag time for gaming, annoying when signal reduces for no reason and just so much slower.
Quote ZERO <ibis> 23rd April 2007, 20:32
Well noting that Wi-Fi uses electromagnetic waves in the radio section verses the other forums of electromagnetic waves including light, infrared, ultraviolet gamma and other forms of radiation. It should be expected that if Wi-Fi could be causing cancer(being at the low energy level of the spectrum) that the government should be looking into high energy causes that are also common in class room environments. These would include investigating heat as a health risk, light, and ultraviolet radiation.

Ultimatly if the health risks of Wi-Fi are so high that people should be kept away from it then they should also not be aloud to play out side and should only be exposed to light for a time no greater than 2 hours each day. Also no child should be aloud to get an x-ray because the amount of energy in x-ray waves is a multitude greater than years of Wi-Fi exposure. It should also be recommended that children ware led vests to protect them from cell phone towers, two way radios and the death rays also known as infrared tv(telly) remotes.

Is anyone else looking is the money and time going into this study and craziness and just... :(
Quote ZERO <ibis> 23rd April 2007, 20:35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spaceraver
Glad i have my tinfoil beanie
Quote:
Originally Posted by sinizterguy
Its going to be completely pointless. Are people going to go over and make their neighbours stop using wifi to prevent them becoming ill ?

If anyone asks me to stop I will point them in the direction of the tin-foil hat which has the added benefit of stopping mind control rays.

a study i once saw showed that a tinfoil beanie would actually help the government read your mind if they did in fact have such a device because the frequencies that are exclusively registered to the government are amplified by tinfoil by very large factor.

also tinfoil amplifies cellphones...
:D
Quote Redbeaver 23rd April 2007, 20:42
ill leave mine at home then.....

:D
Quote HugoB 23rd April 2007, 21:09
This is why I walk around in a lead-aluminium alloy chainmail full-body suit and helmet

Safe and it looks nifty
Quote Aankhen 23rd April 2007, 21:19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Echo
Is there actually proof to show that wi-fi may possibly be damaging to health, even if it is slight?
Unless I'm mistaken, that's what this study is going to try and find out. :)
Quote pendragon 23rd April 2007, 21:22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archangel
This is why I walk around in a lead-aluminium alloy chainmail full-body suit and helmet

Safe and it looks nifty


why not just upgrade to full-plate armor? It'll have the side-bonus of stopping all those pesky arrows! :D
Quote Freemanator 23rd April 2007, 21:29
The scare language also annoys me. I know it is radiation, but the average person associates radiation with nuclear radiation, and not just energy, which I am sure is responsible for a lot of the hysterics.
Quote Bluephoenix 23rd April 2007, 21:35
Even human beings give off radiation to a degree.

all matter gives off particles as it degenerates, and this degeneration is what heats the earth. (mostly thorium is responsible for this, given its concentrations and energy output over decay)
Quote DougEdey 23rd April 2007, 22:01
Wifi has a range of 100m max, mobiles have a range of a good few miles.

Which do we stick on our heads daily?
Quote Salazaar 23rd April 2007, 22:04
Well I don't know about you lot but I'm off to live in a lead lined cave at the bottom of a mine shaft so I can be away from all the radiation coming from my computer, TV, phone, the satellites, radio masts, power stations, ipods, Cornwall (radon in the granite), microwaves, electric trains, french neutron bombs, crutons and x-ray machines.
Quote DarkLord7854 23rd April 2007, 22:13
Can't be much worse then exhaust fumes from automobiles...
Quote specofdust 23rd April 2007, 22:22
This is from people who teach kids. These are meant to be learned individuals who are intelligent and logical.

Seriously.....I just want the nukes to fly. If they all die with me, I die happy.
Quote Silver51 23rd April 2007, 22:25
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZERO <ibis>
a study i once saw showed that a tinfoil beanie would actually help the government read your mind if they did in fact have such a device...
:D

This one?
http://people.csail.mit.edu/rahimi/helmet/

I work at a secondary school in Cornwall as an IT Technician. We have a wireless network to allow our teachers to roam the premises with their laptops. Despite the sensationalistic wording in their article, I doubt anyone will even comment on this at work.

Even if we did switch off the wireless network, CRTs, lights etc.. and confiscate all the student's mobile phones, it wouldn't have any effect on radio signals within the school. Despite the fact that we're in line of sight for television, mobile and satellite communication systems... what about background radiation from space? Iir, tuning an old TV to a dead channel allows you to pick this up.
Quote The_Beast 23rd April 2007, 23:14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyinsar
That's about what I expect also.

Personally I have avoided going wireless (with the exception of my lightly used cell phone) - all this extra radiation may or may not be harmful but it can't hurt to avoid any unneeded exposure. Besides that, wired connections are both more secure and easier to troubleshoot.

wired is soo much easyer to work with then wireless, but wireless it more usefull if you have a laptop
Quote Charles1 23rd April 2007, 23:14
Its tons of bull. Just old people who have nothing else to do than get into other peoples business and make such claims. I myself have everythign wireless have 5 pc's wireless that are on 24/7. So all in all no health risk. You have bigger health rish with dust in your house than wi fi will cause.
Quote DXR_13KE 23rd April 2007, 23:42
it is just some people wasting some cash.... nothing out of the ordinary. :(
Quote Brooxy 24th April 2007, 01:17
The way I see it, anything can kill you, and to be honest, lifes a terminal STD anyway...might aswell live it doing what you want, and not wondering about what can and can't kill you...
Quote Bluephoenix 24th April 2007, 01:18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooxy
The way I see it, anything can kill you, and to be honest, lifes a terminal STD anyway...might aswell live it doing what you want, and not wondering about what can and can't kill you...

QFT
Quote:
Originally Posted by DXR_13KE
it is just some people wasting some cash.... nothing out of the ordinary. :(

It's when the studies erroneously attribute health issues to wi-fi and start shutting it down that it starts to become less cash-wasting and more imposition on freedoms.
Quote tacticus 24th April 2007, 01:24
Quote:
Originally Posted by DougEdey
Wifi has a range of 100m max, mobiles have a range of a good few miles.

Which do we stick on our heads daily?

wifi can do a wee bit more than 100m :)

sounds like the research into the mmr - autisim link

http://www.badscience.net/?p=182
http://www.badscience.net/?cat=21 for reference
Quote thecrownles 24th April 2007, 01:35
Well considering a cell phone left in your pants pocket all day every day can lower your sperm count by up to 30% (not permanently), I think they are justified in investigating health effects related to wireless transmission technologies. I think it would be better if it weren't worded the way it is, and if they investigated cell phones and other wireless technologies as well.
Quote sinizterguy 24th April 2007, 07:22
With all the kids carrying cell phone anyway, the issues associated with wireless are not actually worth investigating for the reasons mentioned.
Quote DougEdey 24th April 2007, 07:53
Quote:
Originally Posted by tacticus
wifi can do a wee bit more than 100m :)

I'm thinking of standard home use equipment of b/g rating, which is what most schools would probably buy because they are cheaper and operate within the 2.4GHZ range (that's what my school used at least)
Quote hitman012 24th April 2007, 08:29
Quote:
Originally Posted by tacticus
sounds like the research into the mmr - autisim link
Or power lines and cancer. It seems to me like a lot of money is wasted on these things because people think that some anecdotal evidence constitutes a solid link and don't realise that there are plenty of other explanations. A man had a headache after they installed the Wi-Fi? What about all the high-frequency sound that crappy power packs put out? I had a wired router that really hacked me off until I fixed it because it made a terrible whining noise non-stop.

You'll get a healthy dose of radiation from your mobile phone, fluorescent lamps, CRT monitors and televisions. Wi-Fi isn't going add anything big to the deal. Furthermore, microwave radiation is non-ionising, meaning there shouldn't be any direct risk of cancer or anything related.
Quote CardJoe 24th April 2007, 09:11
My +1 T-shirt is all the protection I need.
Quote DougEdey 24th April 2007, 09:15
Quote:
Originally Posted by hitman012
Or power lines and cancer. It seems to me like a lot of money is wasted on these things because people think that some anecdotal evidence constitutes a solid link and don't realise that there are plenty of other explanations. A man had a headache after they installed the Wi-Fi? What about all the high-frequency sound that crappy power packs put out? I had a wired router that really hacked me off until I fixed it because it made a terrible whining noise non-stop.

You'll get a healthy dose of radiation from your mobile phone, fluorescent lamps, CRT monitors and televisions. Wi-Fi isn't going add anything big to the deal. Furthermore, microwave radiation is non-ionising, meaning there shouldn't be any direct risk of cancer or anything related.

There was a woman on Radio 4 (I think) last night who said she had a mobile but doesn't use it because of health risks.

I felt like screaming at her "Why have a mobile phone then?"

If people are really worried about this stuff then they should go and live in the woods in the middle of Russia.
Quote yakyb 24th April 2007, 09:34
god i hate health and safety morons we have had radio for about 100 years now has there ever been a look into this? its just plain stupid. one day were not allowed to eat red meat the next its ok one day were not allowed to eat eggs the next eggs have cancer curing properties.

could someone tell them

ITS EASY GET SOME F*****G EXERCISE EAT A BALANCED DIET AND YOU WILL LIVE TO A RIPE OLD AGE FFS

Edit: oh and keep your mind active instead of watching the mindless drivle on tv that i bet most of these busybodies watch
Quote CardJoe 24th April 2007, 09:49
Quote:
Originally Posted by yakyb

Edit: oh and keep your mind active instead of watching the mindless drivle on tv that i bet most of these busybodies watch

Reading bit-tech every day = ripe old age :D
Quote ralph.pickering 24th April 2007, 10:46
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecrownles
Well considering a cell phone left in your pants pocket all day every day can lower your sperm count by up to 30% (not permanently), I think they are justified in investigating health effects related to wireless transmission technologies. I think it would be better if it weren't worded the way it is, and if they investigated cell phones and other wireless technologies as well.

So if I just get another 3 phones I won't need that pesky vasectomy that they won't give me anyway as I don't have kids and might change my mind someday. Like hell I will. Sweet. Carphone warehouse here I come (no pun intended). Mind you, a couple of bricks would be cheaper ouch.
Quote p3n 24th April 2007, 10:56
I work as a network tech in a secondary school, we have quite a few access points but we never bothered creating 100% coverage as with a/b/g technology in the old architecture it would take so many access points it would cost too much...

We haven't had any complaints from teachers, pupils or parents and I hope it stays that way :(
Quote mikeuk2004 24th April 2007, 12:19
Time to get my Halo suit and fly to the moon away from all the techno crap and crazy studies.
Quote knowyourenemy 24th April 2007, 13:23
Everyone, I am sad to announce that I no longer feel safe in this Wi-Fi world. I fear this is the last time I will be using my wireless abacus to input any form of message to you folks.
Quote Hazza 24th April 2007, 13:38
I think that the problem with things like this is that it's very easy for someone to say they did 'conclusive' testing when infact it's very difficult to perform reliable testing. I'm sure by doing things like measuring sick days of people who use wireless or checking for certain symptons, you could produce any results you like. Also, as someone mentioned, there has hardly been any astounding results from research about mobile phones causing health problems. Confidence inspiring?

Presenting things poorly in a public light doesn't help either. It wouldn't suprise me that a few people who work with wireless start becoming ill more often, after becoming aware that wireless is being investigated. It can be very easy to actually create a problem with a situation like this.

Does this mean that all high frequency signals will have to be checked? TV? Radio? Sattelite? Somehow, I don't think so. How often do people get warned that they live near deposits of rocks containing Radon? I'm sure that would be much more concerning to most people! I'm not saying that high frequency broadcasts shouldn't be checked, but there's a line between reasonable safety, and paranoia or scare tactics. I think that mobile phones were an easy target, and Bluetooth and Wifi are probably second to that.
Quote g3n3tiX 24th April 2007, 15:30
Quote:
Originally Posted by DougEdey

Which do we stick on our heads daily?
Agreed !!

Your microwave emits FAR MORE harmful waves than your average wifi access point, or laptop...
Quote Bluephoenix 24th April 2007, 15:33
sdomething a freind of mine pointed out is that the radio waves that make it through the ionosphere from the sun are far more pervasive and harmful than wi-fi. so, should schools be lined with lead and blocked off from all air and light?
Quote DougEdey 24th April 2007, 15:37
Quote:
Originally Posted by g3n3tiX
Agreed !!

Your microwave emits FAR MORE harmful waves than your average wifi access point, or laptop...

But there's a magical lump of glass!
Quote Bluephoenix 24th April 2007, 15:41
the glass itself does jack all, the particles and mesh embedded in it are what stop the lethal radiation.
Quote Kipman725 24th April 2007, 21:05
IDIOTS!!!!

Wi-Fi has too large a wave length to case harm on a cellular level I can't belive I am seeing this, have people lost all common sense?

the only thing wi-fi can do is cause a minuscule amount of heating which is virtually unmeasurable... please can some one get some common sense :S
Quote Aankhen 24th April 2007, 21:25
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph.pickering
So if I just get another 3 phones I won't need that pesky vasectomy that they won't give me anyway as I don't have kids and might change my mind someday.
That was my idea too. ;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by p3n
We haven't had any complaints from teachers, pupils or parents and I hope it stays that way
I feel compelled to point out that just because you haven't had any complaints doesn't mean there haven't been problems. It merely means that if there have been problems, no one's linked them to prevalent Wi-Fi access (yet).
Quote p3n 24th April 2007, 21:44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aankhen
That was my idea too. ;)

I feel compelled to point out that just because you haven't had any complaints doesn't mean there haven't been problems. It merely means that if there have been problems, no one's linked them to prevalent Wi-Fi access (yet).

No it means that we haven't had a big enough hypochondriac get in the way of the technological infrastructure yet.
Quote Aankhen 25th April 2007, 09:11
Quote:
Originally Posted by p3n
No it means that we haven't had a big enough hypochondriac get in the way of the technological infrastructure yet.
You keep telling yourself that. ;)
Quote Greenie 25th April 2007, 19:24
this kind of thing is spread by people that dont really understand the technology, the frequencies and the amount of power this kit uses.

the power output of a wi-fi access point is orders of magnitude less than that of even a mobile phone, which almost everyone has and there are no definite/obvious/properly proven ill effects from those.

i think i may heave read something like this before, where a teacher in the UK complained of headaches when he was in his classroom for long periods of time and he just happened to blame it on the access point. It was a lot more probable it was because of stress, noisy students, or even some kind of gas leak, too small to harm in the short term, but he happened to be more sensitive to its effects?

These things dont really make too much sense when people go off on random technologies like this, without enough evidence to back up their claims. They should research first, then make a definitive answer instead of fearmongering.
Quote Sebbo 26th April 2007, 04:11
Quote:
While investigators are at it, why not look at other massively available technologies that also transmit wirelessly like mobile phones or the Nintendo DS?

err, may i be the first to point out that the wireless technology in the Nintendo DS IS WiFi?

i agree that all this concern is merely fearmongering...although, if it does turn out to be true i'm rather screwed...mobiles, wifi, bluetooth and cordless phones and console controllers everywhere in my house
Quote legoman666 26th April 2007, 06:33
Quote:
Originally Posted by ralph.pickering
So if I just get another 3 phones I won't need that pesky vasectomy that they won't give me anyway as I don't have kids and might change my mind someday.

actually...
1x70% = .7
7x70% = .49
.49x70%=.343
.343x70%=.24
.24x70%=.168
etc
etc

you'd need 12.911 cell phones to bring your sperm count to a respectable 1%. If you want to be on the safe side, you might try 19.367 cell phones for .1% of your original sperm count. But on the other hand, it only takes 1 of the little buggers to cause all sorts of trouble, so you should probably carry 58.101 cell phones to reduce your count to 1/1,000,000%. Should be safe then :P
Quote Bauul 26th April 2007, 12:16
It is pretty retarded, Radios have been used for over a century and no-one's ever worried about them affecting people, wi-fi is the same, so why the hysteria? God people are retarded. For complete saftey from all forms of electro magnetic raditation you need to live in an air tight lead room deep underground with no light. True you'd be safe from radiation, but you'd die from lack of air soon enough.

You know what this isn't even worth a rant, it's just retarded on every level.
Quote specofdust 26th April 2007, 12:44
Yup, people who whine about these sorts of things clearly lack any understanding of what radiation actually is, and of light.
Quote ZERO <ibis> 26th April 2007, 21:58
Quote:
Originally Posted by knowyourenemy
Everyone, I am sad to announce that I no longer feel safe in this Wi-Fi world. I fear this is the last time I will be using my wireless abacus to input any form of message to you folks.

rofl :)

I have decided crt's are dangerous and so is light, I am going to remove my eyes for protection.
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