bit-tech.net | LG releases hybrid HD-format player

<A88> 4th January 2007, 16:56

Great...so a hybrid player to play hybrid discs on. Does anyone else see the logic here?

<A88>

mclean007 4th January 2007, 17:20

A hybrid player makes a lot more sense than those hybrid discs. This is really a step in the right direction. I will commit to HD when (and only when) I can buy a player which is either off-the-shelf or easily modified (remote hack etc.) to be able to play all regions of single and dual layer HD-DVD and Blu-Ray (or the sole surviving format if one should die out in the interim), including writeable / re-writeable discs, and to output over HDMI in full 1080p, upscaling content that falls below that standard. My other conditions are that recent movies must be commonly available online at a maximum of around £15, and that the price of the hardware be right (basic player <£200, higher quality player <£500). I'm thinking I'll have to wait around 2 years, by which time I'd also hope for a decent range of >=32" affordable screens capable of displaying true 1080p content to be available.

Lineage 4th January 2007, 17:21

i would get a hybird player rather than a hybird disc.....

Flibblebot 4th January 2007, 17:42

I'll be interested to see how it performs once it's launched. I'd also be interested to know how LG got around the licensing issues - AFAIK, to license either technology requires the signing of a contract stating that you won't license the alternative format technology.

But really, if both parties want to make their format a success, this is the only way forward...

DarkReaper 4th January 2007, 17:54

I prefer the hybrid disc idea purely for the reason that Blu-Ray drives and players cost the earth, and surely having to put both Blu-Ray and HD readers into a player would drive the price up significantly.

DXR_13KE 4th January 2007, 18:35

what mclean007 says, and this player will cost a lot of cash.

aggies11 4th January 2007, 18:54

Oh great.

So now we have a "3rd" format to join the war?

So I have to go out and buy "hybrid" discs, and then a separate "hybrid" player to play them on?!! :Þ

Aggies

toric334 4th January 2007, 19:09

Hang on, people go the wrong end here, or is it just me?

There isn't another disc, this player will take BD and HD-DVD.

JADS 4th January 2007, 19:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by toric334
Hang on, people go the wrong end here, or is it just me?

There isn't another disc, this player will take BD and HD-DVD.

It is a player that will play both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD discs. Warner just announced a hybrid disc that will feature HD-DVD content on one layer and Blu-Ray on another, which if they are very lucky might just play in any Blu-Ray or HD-DVD player. As both formats use dual layers I remain rather sceptical whether the hybrid disc can support a full 4 layers of content or whether they will choose between reducing the capacity or making a double sided disc.

Hybrid players and recorders are the way forward! Go Lucky Goldstar!

Aankhen 4th January 2007, 23:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by <A88>
Great...so a hybrid player to play hybrid discs on. Does anyone else see the logic here?

It's a hybrid player to play normal discs on, not hybrid discs (although those should work too if they play in any normal Blu-Ray or HD-DVD player).

careyd 5th January 2007, 06:23

I've heard it pretty widely reported that hybrid players, while technically possible, would not be brought to market for legal reasons. The reason I have heard and read about is that specific language in both the Blu-Ray and the HD-DVD licensure agreement specifically prohibits equipment manufacturers from supporting the competing standard in the same device.

Not having read those license agreements myself, what of this? Were all those reports WRONG all along or were some last-minute revisions just amended to these agreements to enable dual format playback devices to be brought to market?

I would certainly appreciate someone from bit-tech editorial weighing in on this...

<A88> 5th January 2007, 13:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aankhen
It's a hybrid player to play normal discs on, not hybrid discs (although those should work too if they play in any normal Blu-Ray or HD-DVD player).

I know it's only meant for either HD-DVD or Blu-Ray discs, but with hybrid discs now joining the party we're gonna be in a bigger mess than we started with. If both hybrid discs and players become popular, we're basically tip-toing around another corporate ego-battle between Sony and Toshiba who can't give up their respective formats to support each other. If hybrid formats and devices become popular then they'll both end up costing the industry an extortionate amount to make and license these multi-format solutions. Surely Sony learnt something from Betamax?

<A88>

Flibblebot 5th January 2007, 16:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by <A88>
Surely Sony learnt something from Betamax?

<A88>

No, because until the advent of broadcast quality DV cameras, Betamax was the format of choice for TV film crews because of the superior picture quality over VHS tapes. So while it may have died in the consumer sector, it was used in the commercial sector long after the VHS/Beta war dies, and was a success in the eyes of Sony.

mclean007 5th January 2007, 17:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flibblebot
No, because until the advent of broadcast quality DV cameras, Betamax was the format of choice for TV film crews because of the superior picture quality over VHS tapes. So while it may have died in the consumer sector, it was used in the commercial sector long after the VHS/Beta war dies, and was a success in the eyes of Sony.

Add to that the crucial distinction that people seem to miss between the HD-DVD/Blu-Ray situation and the Betamax/VHS situation - Betamax tapes were physically incompatible with VHS VCRs - they simply would not fit in them. By contrast, HD-DVD and Blu-Ray use the same form factor that has been implemented in round spinny discs since the CD made its debut 25 years ago. As such, it is much more likely that hybrid HD-DVD/Blu-Ray players will take off and the "format war" will be moot, with both formats happily co-existing, at least in the short-medium term. The only losers are the early adopters who got a first gen drive supporting only one format or the other.

careyd 5th January 2007, 17:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flibblebot
No, because until the advent of broadcast quality DV cameras, Betamax was the format of choice for TV film crews because of the superior picture quality over VHS tapes. So while it may have died in the consumer sector, it was used in the commercial sector long after the VHS/Beta war dies, and was a success in the eyes of Sony.

Wrong! I work in broadcast television and we have never used Betamax as a standard, only Betacam SP. The similarities are that they both use the same size tape (1/2") and the same basic shell design for the tapes. The similarities end there.

Betacam SP (now a 20 year old broadcast format, and is being eclipsed by better, digital formats) ran at a MUCH higher speed and recorded component analog video onto tape. It supports 2 linear analog channels and can support 2 more AFM audio channels which are embedded on the helical scan of the video track.

Betamax was slightly superior to VHS but VHS won. The lesson is that the consumer market cares less about image quality and more about price, ubiquity, and features (in that order). Overall, the lesson is that the consumer market HATES format wars.

But please don't ever confuse any of this with the high quality formats we use in broadcast television.

duc 5th January 2007, 18:45

Pic of LG's hybrid player

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/8886/galzk3.jpg

Courtesy of T3

DougEdey 5th January 2007, 19:13

No HD-DVD logo?

Flibblebot 6th January 2007, 13:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by careyd
Wrong! I work in broadcast television and we have never used Betamax as a standard, only Betacam SP. The similarities are that they both use the same size tape (1/2") and the same basic shell design for the tapes. The similarities end there.

Betacam SP (now a 20 year old broadcast format, and is being eclipsed by better, digital formats) ran at a MUCH higher speed and recorded component analog video onto tape. It supports 2 linear analog channels and can support 2 more AFM audio channels which are embedded on the helical scan of the video track.

Betamax was slightly superior to VHS but VHS won. The lesson is that the consumer market cares less about image quality and more about price, ubiquity, and features (in that order). Overall, the lesson is that the consumer market HATES format wars.

But please don't ever confuse any of this with the high quality formats we use in broadcast television.

Fair enough, but the fact is that Betacam was based on Sony's Betamax format tapes (Betamax came out about 5 years before Betacam). My point was that although Sony lost the consumer war, they won the longer term war by turning the consumer product into the de facto commercial AV standard, and they extended Beta's life by turning it into Betacam digital. So, all in all, Betamax and its successors survived much longer than VHS and ultimately wasn't a complete failure for Sony.

But anyway, to get back on topic, I agree with mclean007 that the HD format war is less of a problem since the basic medium is of the same format.
I'd still like to know how LG managed to produce a dual format player, given the alleged exclusiity clauses in technology licenses for each of the formats.

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LG releases hybrid HD-format player

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