Microsoft says no Blu-ray for Xbox 360

I think you should just bump this every few months, follows the old "MS Are doing blu-ray"/"No we're not!" cycle

When they say the technology do they mean the x360, it can't have more than a couple of years left in it now whats the point in expanding it.

Well digital download is all well and good if you have a good connection but mine is diabolically bad (when I joined Sky broadband they tested my line and it came out at 512MB) so until we get better broadband speeds into homes I'll stick with optical media thankyouverymuch.

Ignoring the speed of people's internet connection, who would have the hard disk space to keep a copy of their whole movie collection in HD?!

Ok Some of use here might cos we're geeks, but normal people?

hmm... yes... so according to microsoft you'll have to wait aaaaages for 40GB of data to download (assuming you want 1080p 24fps video with uncompressed 5.1 and/or 7.1 audio and all the extras - you know, the benefits of Blu-Ray media) before you can watch the movie instead of just picking up a disc and slotting it in...

Yes I can see the logic in that
/sarcasm

I'm not sure about the longevity of Blu-Ray.... but I do know that Microsoft's points system stops me from ever buying (renting) a movie on my xbox. I've brought some games on there, but they were things I really wanted and buying points for them made me extremely annoyed.

Actually I've worked out the average lovefilm rental cost me per disc, and it's not that far out the prices I would pay by using apple tv or xbox live. However I can't see how much things cost if they are presented in points, since I don't recognised Microsoft as an entity worthy of it's own currency... there's no chance I would go with them.

toshiba disagree

http://blog.wired.com/games/2008/10/report-blu-ray.html

Left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing?

Originally Posted by Joeymac
I'm not sure about the longevity of Blu-Ray.... but I do know that Microsoft's points system stops me from ever buying (renting) a movie on my xbox. I've brought some games on there, but they were things I really wanted and buying points for them made me extremely annoyed.

Actually I've worked out the average lovefilm rental cost me per disc, and it's not that far out the prices I would pay by using apple tv or xbox live. However I can't see how much things cost if they are presented in points, since I don't recognised Microsoft as an entity worthy of it's own currency... there's no chance I would go with them.

I'm half with you on this.... with PSN you know what you are spending.... the whole points thing on live and wii doesn't put me off, but i fine my self working out how much it is.

i would prefer MS to get rid of points but i dont think it will happen, but if they could have the price next to the points maybe, i think this would aid alot of people.

Originally Posted by shigllgetcha
toshiba disagree

http://blog.wired.com/games/2008/10/report-blu-ray.html

There are no details, that is rumour, no official press statement from Toshiba or Microsoft, heck, even the article states:

Originally Posted by XBIT
Unlike Toshiba Corp., which is still strictly against Blu-ray disc (BD) format

So why would Toshiba join with Samsung???

Originally Posted by ChaosDefinesOrder
hmm... yes... so according to microsoft you'll have to wait aaaaages for 40GB of data to download (assuming you want 1080p 24fps video with uncompressed 5.1 and/or 7.1 audio and all the extras - you know, the benefits of Blu-Ray media) before you can watch the movie instead of just picking up a disc and slotting it in...

Yes I can see the logic in that
/sarcasm

Indeed, my conn aint going to handle that, I'll be capped probably half way through too :(

I would put money on a BR drive coming to 360. Microsofts consistant denial of the whole thing is just making me more expectant of an announcement for one.

Or they know something we do not (yet)

We believe that we shouldn't force consumers to pay for things they don't want.

#

Right, so forcing windows on us is ok?? and by forcing a business to upgrade to the latest windows because you wont support the older versions?

I see how MS gives the customer what they want.

Anyhow,they can do the digital downloads all they like, but the network in the uk is not built for it. There is no way we will be able to have HD video downloads because of the slow internet speeds and caps and throttling in this country. MS is forcing us into getting our broadband conection cut off or serverly limited.

So Ms are doing just that, forcing us to pay for something we dont want.

Ill grab a disc because I can take it to a friends and watch it or share it with my parents. Downloads is restricting us which is not what I want.

distribute with nand flash imo way better median than disks.

Originally Posted by mikeuk2004
Anyhow,they can do the digital downloads all they like, but the network in the uk is not built for it. There is no way we will be able to have HD video downloads because of the slow internet speeds and caps and throttling in this country. MS is forcing us into getting our broadband conection cut off or serverly limited.

I've been downloading HD content from Xbox live for a good six months, without any issues at all. The UK's network is being upgraded on a permanent basis, as BT are currently spending billions on their 21C stuff. We're perfectly well capable of dealing with it.

As for the argument about waiting for download times, over "just popping a disc in":

<insert family fortunes fail sound effect>

In the time it would take me to get in my car (or on a bus), get in to town, navigate through the swarms of people, purchase a Blue Ray disc, and navigate all my way back again, I could have watched half of the semi-buffered film in HD over Xbox Live Marketplace.

I suspect that a lot of these comments are made from the Microsoft haters, which is fair enough. But you can't deny that people just don't want to buy plastic discs any more, as proven by the effect of MP3 downloads over CD sales. Why? Because it's more convenient.

I'd much rather have a physical disk sitting on a shelf rather than have a downloaded copy. DVDs and BluRay discs don't suffer from crashing and wiping, once I've bought it, it'll never expire. I can play them as often as I want on whatever player I want without having to jump through hoops or break the law.

And I'd never play movies (whether downloaded, DVD or BluRay) on my Xbox anyway, the fans are just too damn loud.

Originally Posted by Flibblebot
I'd much rather have a physical disk sitting on a shelf rather than have a downloaded copy. DVDs and BluRay discs don't suffer from crashing and wiping, once I've bought it, it'll never expire. I can play them as often as I want on whatever player I want without having to jump through hoops or break the law.

+1.

I'd rather have the physical media too.

Originally Posted by Flibblebot
I'd much rather have a physical disk sitting on a shelf rather than have a downloaded copy. DVDs and BluRay discs don't suffer from crashing and wiping, once I've bought it, it'll never expire. I can play them as often as I want on whatever player I want without having to jump through hoops or break the law.

And I'd never play movies (whether downloaded, DVD or BluRay) on my Xbox anyway, the fans are just too damn loud.

Id agree with that, I love having my DVD collection in a physical form even though nearly all of them have been ripped to my media pc anyway, Ive only ever downloaded 1 film through my xbox and i wouldnt do it again. Ive never been the person that searches for a film to watch on the night i want to watch it, Im more of a root around hmv when im in town person, and if something catches my eye ill pick it up while im there

The other thing is I bought a PS3 based more around its blu ray player than as a console, Ive had it for about 6 months and ive bought and watched 2 Movies! in the same time ive bought over 20 DVDs!

Once ISP's start giving us some half decent speeds for a reasonable price then the digital distribution of HD content will work. Until then we are stuck with bandwidth limits, speed caps and obscenely high prices. I really like the idea of digital distribution and I think at some point it will render physical forms obsolete but quite frankly unless something drastic happens on the ISP end we can forget about it.

Originally Posted by Gushy
Ignoring the speed of people's internet connection, who would have the hard disk space to keep a copy of their whole movie collection in HD?!

Ok Some of use here might cos we're geeks, but normal people?

Just creates a new market for geek entrepreneurs.

Fun timing though, considering that I'm almost out of my space on my couple-months-old pair of 750GB drives. 14MB photos and 720p video adds up stupidly fast.

Originally Posted by Faunus
In the time it would take me to get in my car (or on a bus), get in to town, navigate through the swarms of people, purchase a Blue Ray disc, and navigate all my way back again, I could have watched half of the semi-buffered film in HD over Xbox Live Marketplace.

But that's just it: it's not HD. Don't get me wrong, it looks pretty good on a half-way decent TV, but it's not like Chaos said "1080p 24fps video with uncompressed 5.1 and/or 7.1 audio and all the extras - you know, the benefits with Blu-Ray". It depends on the type of consumer you are, of course. In your case, you consider the video on XBLM to meet your standards. In my case, since I own a HD DLP projector that displays video onto a 92" screen, I expect more and Blu-Ray meets that standard.

**** off M$. Be a ****ing man and admit you were wrong. For ****'s Sake.

I will despair if optical media does die out, both CDs and Blu Rays.. Because with those comes quality, quality you just can't get as happily or easily over a 2Mbps internet connection.

I really hope Sony keeps at it with the BD DVD media, because it's good, my library is growing.. and even DVD had some troubles at the start with people talking about the prices being too high and whatnot.

I like watching blu rays because it's more like being at the cinema. A good quality DVD can come close.. but apart from a 2K or 4K DLP and uncompressed 10.2/22.2 Dolby Digital/DTS audio (which you'd have to be a really rich ******* to have in your home), nothing beats Blu Ray with a nice 5.1 set-up and a decent TV.

god M$ can be so ignorant at times, they are so gun ho about this Digital Media BS they wont open their eyes, Im sorry in the USA alone 56% of Americans cant get high speed internet, not only that but majority of people will always want some physical form of something that they can hold.

Originally Posted by HourBeforeDawn
god M$ can be so ignorant at times, they are so gun ho about this Digital Media BS they wont open their eyes...

It makes me wonder, with the way they are bashing Blu-ray and saying physical media doesn't matter blah blah blah, why were they so open-armed with HD-DVD?

Well... I can see M$'s argument for digital content distribution via downloads and whatnot. But it's difficult to distribute "full games" -- taking a look at some of the PS3 titles, for example the latest LittleBigPlanet, the dev's stated that the game takes up the full 50GB offered on the current generation of Blu-Ray discs (because of the large amount of content). If Sony offered this as a download it would: A) Take forever to download => B) How can you "install" a 50GB game when your 80GB PS3 now only has 30GB of free space? Not to mention 40GB models are a no-go or the 60GB's. C) Some people, like myself prefer a "hard copy" just for the sake/satisfaction of knowing that I own something physically after paying $50-60 for it.

As for M$ supporting downloadable content -- it's not a bad idea, for small games it works out great on both consoles. But the 360's have a pathetically small hard drive which cannot facilitate more than a single full title. The PS3 isn't immune to this either, I'd expect that the 80GB model wouldn't be capable of holding more than 2 full copies of a large game (Wipeout/Warhawk doesn't count in this particular comparison).

I believe it was either Hitachi or Toshiba who recently stated that they had managed to offer a 4x 100GB capable blu-ray disc using a slightly modified blu-ray diode... the technology is definitely moving forward. It's a shame that M$ won't admit to its benefits, even if in the short-term. The cost of a Blu-Ray reader has sharply fallen, which would make a 360 add-on fairly affordable (in the price range of the original HD-DVD drive).

Solid State media is still a long ways away from mass adoption. It will eventually happen (I should think) but we're still a long way away from that time -- mechanical drives are still the most cost effective way of offering storage -- and discs the most cost effective way to distributing content (as it does not bite into your ISP issued bandwidth limit (if you have one) nor is it reliant on your downstream capabilities).

Currently there are just too many factors with a digital-only distribution approach. M$ is simply being stubborn.

with what is happening in the bluray, I doubt M$ will support it really in the near future if there is an increase in bluray title says, then there might be a possibility, why would M$ invest on bluray if most of it titles can fit fine on dual layer dvd (except for id's next gen console fps), would it be bluray movies be enough of a reason, seeing that bluray titles are really not on the cheap side?

but but but but but BluRay is going to turn into UMD according to M$!!

:(

Originally Posted by dyzophoria
why would M$ invest on bluray if most of it titles can fit fine on dual layer dvd (except for id's next gen console fps), would it be bluray movies be enough of a reason, seeing that bluray titles are really not on the cheap side?

How about advancements in gaming technology (hints your example with Rage), or piracy for that matter.

Originally Posted by Jasio
Well... I can see M$'s argument for digital content distribution via downloads and whatnot. But it's difficult to distribute "full games" -- taking a look at some of the PS3 titles, for example the latest LittleBigPlanet, the dev's stated that the game takes up the full 50GB

Jasio, I think that MS is talking more in regards to movie distribution than game distribution, but yes you do have great points as to why digital downloads are only going to get bigger and increases in offered bandwidth is not which doesn't make much sense as to why MS would not use some form of optical storage. I would bet that the next 360 will have a BR drive in it. What are they going to do for those that don't have online access or don't want a digital copy of their games? Unless some other, cheaper/better alternative comes around the corner that has mass market appeal, BR will have to be their next choice IMO.

not sure what harm there would be in haveing an BD reader in there the hard disk size on an Xbox 360 sucks way to small and not everyone has cable down there streets {20mb broadband} adsl at best can only provide 4mb bb on avg at best, some times i see users at 7mb i only seen 2 users in the last 3 years on 14mb bb (bulldog internet 2 times)
(user at the top you need to edit it and change it to 512kb maybe in china i get 1gb bb but not in the uk for 5-10 or more years cable most likey be there first)

Originally Posted by Faunus

As for the argument about waiting for download times, over "just popping a disc in":

<insert family fortunes fail sound effect>

In the time it would take me to get in my car (or on a bus), get in to town, navigate through the swarms of people, purchase a Blue Ray disc, and navigate all my way back again, I could have watched half of the semi-buffered film in HD over Xbox Live Marketplace.

The gadget show proved the opposite. One guy started a download and the bold guy with the specs went out and bought a blu-ray. He got back home and watched the blu-ray twice and the guy downloading the HD movie was still downloading.

But you can't deny that people just don't want to buy plastic discs any more, as proven by the effect of MP3 downloads over CD sales. Why? Because it's more convenient.

Yes, exactly, its convenient but the difference is that a mp3 is only a couple of meg and takes only a few seconds to download and you got it same day. Multiply it by 16666 and you got hours or days of waiting which is not convenient. And while your downloading one movie, its tying up your bandwidth which prevents you doing other stuff online and your ISP will target you as a heavy user and limit you.

The UK network can not handle itif everyone downloads HD mvoies and the ISP's dont want you either. That is the major drawback to large downloads.

We also believe that the future's digital

Optical media ARE digital.. Nobody's suggesting that games and moves be delivered on magnetic tape.. (I hope.)

With 400+ movies in my collection (not to mention seasons of TV shows, only count each season as 1 in that 400+ count) I would have to buy more harddrives to store that amount of data. Those are all standard DVDs, not Blu-Ray or HD. No thanks... I'd rather have disks that are not susceptible to the failures that current harddrives can experience. As said by others... CDs and DVDs are portable and can be carried with you to be played in your laptops, cars, portable DVD players, at work (maybe for some), a friends house, etc. Best of all... NO F***ING DMR on these disks. There is nothing to limit me on how many times I can play my movies and no restrictions on being able to play it on more than one device.

Even magnetic tape is digital, Maybe they will start distributing games on vinyl?

There is DRM on DVD's, it is just not invasive.

What would be even funnier is if they said they will only sell copies of Windows electronically... so every time your hard drive failed, you'd be f**ked!!! :p

Seriously though, stone-age as it might sound, I appreciate having a nice solid disk onto which I can store my stuff - rather than having it floating about in the aether on a HDD. I do have practically everything backed up onto a HDD, but my shiny collection of CDs always seems to take priority.

Quality wise, of course, I do much prefer my CDs and DVDs. The quality of a bought £9.99 DVD is far greater than the equivalent 702mb aXXo rip, in the same way that Coldplay sound much better on their CD than they do in the 192kbps rip which someone put up on TPB. Its all cool with lossless music and DVD and HD quality rps, but the tubes aren't efficient enough to handle that stuff and take it to everyone's homes.

And tbh, I don't see much life in the 360... the PS2 resided under my television for almost 10 years. 10 years because not only did I like the games, but also because it started out as our first ever DVD player. In fact, until out old VCR broke in 2004, we had no other DVD players in the house (except the PC). The PS3's blu ray is having a similar effect.

What I can't wait to see is M$'s latest offering... I wonder what it will be called?

Hopefully these holidays I can afford a PS3 and TV to go alongside it. I have yet to see a BD DVD.

if youve got a newer pc monitor with HDCP hook up the ps3 to that. it looks amazing even if it is a small screen.