Devices like the Eee PC can be supplied with cheap XP Home, but not if they're bigger than 10.2".

Devices like the Eee PC can be supplied with cheap XP Home, but not if they're bigger than 10.2".

Microsoft has launched a programme aimed at stemming the growing Linux tide on ultra low-cost PCs, but has some rather onerous terms if manufacturers want to play.

According to an article written by an IDG writer and published over at PC World, the software giant is so worried by the rapid growth in commercial Linux distribution caused by the boom in low-cost laptop devices like the Asus Eee PC that it is willing to offer cut-price copies of Windows XP Home Edition to manufacturers that may otherwise have bundled the open-source OS on their gadgets.

In order to prevent sales of the we'll-be-killing-it-any-day-now-honest last-generation XP operating system cutting in to the Windows Vista cash-cow, Microsoft will only allow ULPC vendors to bundle XP if they agree to a certain limitations on the hardware side of things: the screen has to be 10.2” or smaller, the device is limited to 1GB of RAM and a single-core processor of 1GHz or less, the hard drive – whether mechanical or solid-state – has to store under 80GB, and there's no sneaking a touch-screen on the device either.

It's clear from the restrictions that Microsoft is concerned about sales of low-cost hardware running Window XP slowing uptake of its new Vista operating system, and that the restrictions are in place to prevent a switched-on company from offering full-scale laptops supplied with XP – the OS that wouldn't die – to home users who aren't ready for the move to Vista quite yet.

An un-named Microsoft official quoted in the original article claims that manufacturers currently offering Linux on their low-cost devices “have made some good inroads with open-source, and Microsoft wants to put a stop to it.

At the risk of turning this article into a “woo, desktop Linux is on its way!” piece, it's hard to interpret Microsoft's move as anything other than a panicked attempt to prevent the open-source operating system from stealing any more ground in a market the company barely knew existed. While Linux may have a way to go before it's quite ready for mainstream use as the primary desktop OS for most, it's clearly at the point where it's more than adequate for a second computer – and that little fact clearly has Microsoft worried.

If given the option, what would you buy: a Windows XP ULPC, knowing that the hardware has been deliberately limited in order to appease the guys in Redmond; or a Linux-based unit, which is only limited by the budgetary constraints of its makers but that might take someone used to Windows a little while to get used to? Share your thoughts over in the forums.
Quote Shielder 12th May 2008, 14:11
Why is anyone surprised by this? Every time a competing technology appears, MS try to either a) buy it, b) kill it with litigation or c) embrace the technology, extend the technology with their own proprietary extensions and then quickly drop support from all future MS products...

Andy
Quote banshee256 12th May 2008, 14:16
I've always had a beef with Linux on two fronts: Audio/Video Codecs' and games. The primary function of my PC at the moment is to entertain me. That means watching videos, listening to music and playing games. Now, even on Ubuntu that's not an easy feat. I hate the media players in Linux, especially VLC and only very few games play natively in Linux. Acutally, I can only think of 2 games right now: Unreal Tournament and Neverwinter Nights. That's not a lot.

But having Linux on a laptop, or a file-storage server for that matter, would be jolly good. Mostly because it's free and secondly because there are millions of guides to help you install and configure it for just those situations. Brilliant. So yes, I'll take the (cheaper) Linux laptop and let XP rot in a dungeon full of spikes and maggots.
Quote steveo_mcg 12th May 2008, 14:20
Its been a while since i had any problems with players or codecs but then thats what mplayer is for.

Can't say i'm surprised at ms its exactly the same rubbish they do to any tech control or kill. Admittedly much like any other large company its just that ms position is much stronger than most.
Quote Glider 12th May 2008, 14:22
Quote:
Originally Posted by banshee256
Now, even on Ubuntu that's not an easy feat. I hate the media players in Linux, especially VLC
Well, there are thousands of media players around, XMMS is Winamp alike... If you like the top of the cream, go AmaroK, and be amazed...
Quote:
Originally Posted by banshee256
... and only very few games play natively in Linux. Acutally, I can only think of 2 games right now: Unreal Tournament and Neverwinter Nights. That's not a lot.
And Quake... and a lot more if you look into it. But then again, don't blame the Linux community for it, blame the game devs... Look at Introvision, great games with native support...
Quote:
Originally Posted by banshee256
But having Linux on a laptop, or a file-storage server for that matter, would be jolly good. Mostly because it's free and secondly because there are millions of guides to help you install and configure it for just those situations. Brilliant. So yes, I'll take the (cheaper) Linux laptop and let XP rot in a dungeon full of spikes and maggots.
Not only is it good, it's even better, faster,...
Quote Naberius 12th May 2008, 14:28
Is it me or is Microsoft limiting these laptops in two ways, firstly by actual hardware limitations, and then by the fact that XP is not going to run as smooth as the linux distributions they are currently using.
Quote banshee256 12th May 2008, 14:32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glider
Well, there are thousands of media players around, XMMS is Winamp alike... If you like the top of the cream, go AmaroK, and be amazed...

True, but, back when I fooled around with Linux, VLC was the only player, that would play any and all of my videos. From AVI to WMV and further on to RealMedia-thingies and with everything else in between.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glider
And Quake... and a lot more if you look into it. But then again, don't blame the Linux community for it, blame the game devs... Look at Introvision, great games with native support...

Again, true... The developers won't make games for Linux, until a sizable portion of the market uses Linux, but they won't change their OS until more games show up for it. The question is who has the brass to make the first move.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glider
Not only is it good, it's even better, faster,...

Agreed, when it runs, it's better and can be made 100% compatible with your Windows machines. And I have a Dual Xeon 2 GHz machine waiting to be converted into a glorified external harddrive...
Quote Glider 12th May 2008, 14:39
Quote:
Originally Posted by banshee256
Again, true... The developers won't make games for Linux, until a sizable portion of the market uses Linux, but they won't change their OS until more games show up for it. The question is who has the brass to make the first move.
Well, if you look at FUN games instead of *my-FPS-has-a-framrate-of-a-gazillion-but-all-I-have-to-do-all-day-is-run-and-shoot* (wow, that was actually hard to type) then Linux has his share of games too... And even then, Cube2, Nequiz,... All great FPS's...
Quote:
Originally Posted by banshee256
Agreed, when it runs, it's better and can be made 100% compatible with your Windows machines. And I have a Dual Xeon 2 GHz machine waiting to be converted into a glorified external harddrive...
What? Better use an old P3 600MHz for a fileserver and use that server for something better...
Quote Faulk_Wulf 12th May 2008, 14:49
Quote:
Originally Posted by banshee256

Again, true... The developers won't make games for Linux, until a sizable portion of the market uses Linux, but they won't change their OS until more games show up for it. The question is who has the brass to make the first move.

http://www.bit-tech.net/gaming/2007/04/09/Linux_has_game/1

(Not trying to be an ass. ;) )

In all fairness to Microsoft. This is just business. They did it in a dumb way by putting in the hardware restrictions and thus alienating alot of potential buyers. (And the fact that it has to be XP kind of proves how bloated Vista is. Ubuntu has as much flash and more function then Vista as far as I can tell, and it runs on these machines.) But despite this gimped attempt it is still just business. They saw a market, they went for that market.
Quote Jordan Wise 12th May 2008, 14:50
wow, theres some serious multi-quoting going on in here. I too would like it if linux had devs supporting it, but that'll take ages. In the mean time i might try and get a decent n64 emulator for my Eee
Quote banshee256 12th May 2008, 14:56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glider
Well, if you look at FUN games instead of *my-FPS-has-a-framrate-of-a-gazillion-but-all-I-have-to-do-all-day-is-run-and-shoot* (wow, that was actually hard to type) then Linux has his share of games too... And even then, Cube2, Nequiz,... All great FPS's...

Heh, my computer can barely manage 30 fps, no matter what game a play, so that's not really an issue. What is an issue though, is that there are more games available for Windows, than for Linux.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glider
What? Better use an old P3 600MHz for a fileserver and use that server for something better...

Well, I have a Dual Xeon lying around, but not a P3 600 Mhz. Overkill? Sure, but you use what you have at your disposal.
Quote steveo_mcg 12th May 2008, 14:59
Punt the Xeons kit and buy a P3, or i'll swap you for one ;)
Quote Glider 12th May 2008, 15:01
Quote:
Originally Posted by banshee256
Heh, my computer can barely manage 30 fps, no matter what game a play, so that's not really an issue. What is an issue though, is that there are more well known games available for Windows, than for Linux.
Fixed that one for you ;) There are plenty of OSS games around, but there isn't as much fuss about them...
Quote:
Originally Posted by banshee256
Well, I have a Dual Xeon lying around, but not a P3 600 Mhz. Overkill? Sure, but you use what you have at your disposal.
I'll trade you, I have a spare P3 666MHz (you even get the 66MHz for free;)) lying around :D
EDIT: Damn, beaten to it... 2nd dibs tough ;)
Quote banshee256 12th May 2008, 15:06
Well, thank you for the generous deals I'm being offered here, but I think I'll keep it for myself, thank you very much ;)

PS: Point me in the direction of a decent Games for Linux review site and I'll see what I can do about throwing Vista in the same dungeon as XP.
Quote Tomm 12th May 2008, 15:09
MS is trying to bully their way out of this one with price cuts instead of actually creating a superior product. Linux seems like the best solution for these laptops but there's still room for a Windows version that does more, has more compatibility and is familiar to Windows users.
Quote Glider 12th May 2008, 15:13
Quote:
Originally Posted by banshee256
PS: Point me in the direction of a decent Games for Linux review site and I'll see what I can do about throwing Vista in the same dungeon as XP.

Well, I'm not an avid gamer (most people don't consider a MUD to be a game), but *cough*
Quote Cptn-Inafinus 12th May 2008, 15:17
God, every-one is out in force today trying to undermine my confidence in them!

Nvidia, Microsoft. Who next?!
Quote steveo_mcg 12th May 2008, 15:19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cptn-Inafinus
God, every-one is out in force today trying to undermine my confidence in them!

Nvidia, Microsoft. Who next?!

You had confidence in either of them to start with? You must be new here :D
Quote DXR_13KE 12th May 2008, 15:32
banshee256, have you seen http://www.transgaming.com/ ?

Glider, that P3 looks like its from hell!

and as for linux on an ultra portable.... HELL YEAH!!!
Quote Glider 12th May 2008, 16:04
That P3 is perfect, low power, yet more then powerfull enough. All the filesharing and media playing I throw at it don't even get the CPU to go above 50%
Quote Panos 12th May 2008, 16:06
EVE Online has a semi-native client/wrapper to run under Linux! straight after you download it.
Oblivion plays fantastic too, as Civ 4.
And nearly 90% of the games run. Don't expect SM3.0 yet, but the rest are nice and smooth.
When we have SM3.0 support, even Crysis will run faster under linux!
Quote Luukas 12th May 2008, 17:13
Having read this, I changed my MSI Wind preorder from the XP Home version (~20€ more) to the Linux one. :I
Quote DXR_13KE 12th May 2008, 17:30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glider
That P3 is perfect, low power, yet more then powerfull enough. All the filesharing and media playing I throw at it don't even get the CPU to go above 50%

of course, it is a devlish frequency..... :p
Quote pendragon 12th May 2008, 19:09
hmm interesting.. i'm still not completely statisfied with linux as a desktop OS.. I guess I'm just lazy and have run into too many little problems that are extremely frustrating to solve even given the vast array of 'help' out there for the linux community ... that said, pff! .. a machine with 'crippled hardware' specs vs a linux machine? I'll take the linux machine thanks :P
Quote Faulk_Wulf 12th May 2008, 20:21
Semi-on topic:

Is their a way to install an OS (specificly some version of linux) on an ancient rig that had its keyboard cotroller fry on the motherboard?
(ie: I can't use a freaking keyboard on this computer anymore, but nothing else is wrong and i wouldn't mind remotely controlling it if I could get a distro on board.)
Quote Cthippo 12th May 2008, 21:04
I think MS realizes just what a threat this really is. If both manufacturers and consumers get acclimated to the idea that linux is a serviciable alternative to Windows, then they are in trouble. The reality is that linux has been ready for mainstream for probably a year now, but the perception is more important than the reality. What's perhaps more significant is that it's in a laptop, which has long been viewed as the last place where it's a PITA to get linux working.

I feel like we're right on the verge of the emergence of linux into the market. There is not going to be a single, massive switch, but rather an accelerating movementuntil one day "Which OS" becomes a significant question in buying a computer.

@faulk Wulf, can you use a USB keyboard?
Quote Glider 12th May 2008, 22:12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faulk_Wulf
Is their a way to install an OS (specificly some version of linux) on an ancient rig that had its keyboard cotroller fry on the motherboard?
(ie: I can't use a freaking keyboard on this computer anymore, but nothing else is wrong and i wouldn't mind remotely controlling it if I could get a distro on board.)

Most Distro's allow to boot a (sometimes custom) CD that automatically starts an SSH server... If you got an Linux environment + SSH server you are set... Debootstrap, emerge, ... as you please :D
Quote Mentai 12th May 2008, 23:13
I would definitely go for the Linux distro if I were to get a miniature laptop. I've never used linux before, but the only reason for that is gaming, which wouldn't be so good on a laptop, so linux it would be!
Quote DougEdey 12th May 2008, 23:19
100% agree with P3 being perfect. I run Ubuntu on a Dell C610 with 512MB RAM and occassionally get spikes that I need to look into, but it runs perfectly
Quote proxess 12th May 2008, 23:22
all the dooms and quakes, eve online, pretty much all steam stuff. i've never had codec problems except when i used fedora core 2 (or as i call it, "Foder-o Coiro"). I honestly think that all people have now a days is a lame excuse, and devs are just lazy.

EDIT: well i don't want to be harsh on devs. sometimes it isn't their fault, its the fault of the financial directors, which simply are dumb and say "it brings no money! don't do it! also, leave work at 6pm because paying extra hours isn't lucrative!" damn ass lame financial directors!
Quote Cptn-Inafinus 12th May 2008, 23:48
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveo_mcg
You had confidence in either of them to start with? You must be new here :D

I did honestly have a-lot of respect for Microsoft for their work in other fields than Operating Systems. The other products the create are fantastic! But when it comes too there UTTER monopoly of the OS market and how much they try to manipulate it, then they are a I-wish-I-could-no-go area.
Quote Tyinsar 13th May 2008, 01:07
I had an EeePC for a bit and I thought the custom Linux interface was great. I returned it because of the small screen and limited storage but if that got fixed (without a jump in price) I'd buy another in a heartbeat. IMO a purpose built interface (like the EeePC custom Linux one) is better on a UMPC than a general-purpose one (Like Windows).

The great news is that now there might be an option of a limited unit running XP or a better unit running Linux - for the same cost. The only things keeping me with Windows are familiarity and games. A UMPC is great for casual games and there are tons of those free for Linux.
Quote wuyanxu 13th May 2008, 08:26
with the way EEE is currently priced, where XP will get a much smaller disk drive, i will buy Linux without any hesitation, then install my own OS.
Quote DougEdey 13th May 2008, 08:31
I like the way Microsoft are scared of competition :p
Quote r4tch3t 13th May 2008, 10:53
The RAM limitation is a little silly, especially when it is so cheap.
Quote Shielder 13th May 2008, 11:54
Doug, MS has always been scared of the competition, they just buy out the competition, or leverage their monopoly and try and force the competition to become irrelevant (see Netscape). This time though, people are waking up to the fact that you don't need the latest offering from Redmond in order to surf the web or write your letters. You don't even need to spend loads of money on a super laptop in order to get yourself a mobile computer any more.

The EeePC and others like it have shown the general public the way forward in low cost computing. It's only MS that wants us to take a step backwards to support their failing business model.

Andy
Quote polax 13th May 2008, 13:44
Quote:
Originally Posted by banshee256
I've always had a be