Cubans would love to get their hands on cheap and cheerful Dells, but the trade embargo with the US means it's Chinese specials at massive markup.

Cubans would love to get their hands on cheap and cheerful Dells, but the trade embargo with the US means it's Chinese specials at massive markup.

Next time you boot up your home desktop, spare a thought for the population of Cuba who are only just getting the right to own a personal computer.

According to an Associated Press article, Friday saw the lifting of a ban on the sale of evil capitalist personal computer systems under the new president of the island Raul Castro.

The £400 Qtech PCs aren't exactly going to set the world on fire, with Intel Celeron processors and 512MB of RAM running a Windows XP install and a good old fashioned CRT display – pretty weedy by our standards, but a revolution (sorry) for the locals. Interestingly, both Intel and Microsoft are forbidden to export goods to Cuba under the US trade embargoes in place against the communist nation – but that doesn't seem to be stopping Qtech.

The price might seem high for the spec, but it's even higher when you take into account the average wage for a Cuban worker – just £10 a month. Nevertheless, eager buyers have been queuing up to be the first on the island to own a legitimately bought PC.

One such individual is 14 year old Brian Brito, who saved up his pocket money for two years just so he could join the information revolution. AP quotes Brian as saying “It's good for playing games,”, whilst his mother rather hoped he would “use it for school, for learning.

Although Raul Castro's more progressive regime means a reduction in the restrictions on daily life in Cuba, owners of freshly bought PCs won't be hooking them up to the Internet quite yet. With the exception of government employees, personal Internet access is still illegal in Cuba. Whether this restriction is likely to be lifted remains to be seen – let's hope COL (Cuba On-Line) CDs will join mobile phones, PCs, and plug-in pressure cookers on the shelves of Cuban stores soon.

Looking forward to the day when you can play Cubans at Team Fortress 2, or should the country be concentrating on sorting out more than just restrictions on consumer goods? Share your thoughts over in the forums.
Asus P5Q Series Motherboards!
Quote Orlix 5th May 2008, 09:01
"Raul Castro's more progressive regime"
you should become a politician... or a comedian. Cubans have the right to mobiles and computers now. It is a big step for them, is it forward? sideways? Does not matter, at least is the first step in a long time. Now if they only would not get arrested for eating meat or talking against the government.....
Quote julianmartin 5th May 2008, 09:56
i believe universities and certain businesses are allowed internet access as well. however it is all by satellite only..
Quote Neji 5th May 2008, 11:02
Sad to they're running Windows. Our Cuban comrades ought to be running GNU/Linux boxes surely.
Quote DougEdey 5th May 2008, 11:02
And the reason for this change of heart? One of my lecturers has gone to Havana to lecture on Computing.
Quote Orlix 5th May 2008, 11:26
The reason is that Fidel is not in power anymore. If he is dead or not is not clear, but now his brother is president. All this democratically decided by Fidel of course.
Quote DXR_13KE 5th May 2008, 12:06
I hope Raul Castro takes the country out of the dark ages....
Quote dom_ 5th May 2008, 13:29
Personally i think it is about time america stopped being an arse and lifted the trade restrictions.

The whole domino effect thing never happened and you really don't need to hate communism as is seen with the usa and china.
Quote cpemma 5th May 2008, 13:59
Quote:
Originally Posted by DougEdey
And the reason for this change of heart?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inquirer
Other sought-after appliances now available and previously only obtainable on the black market, or smuggled in courtesy of relatives in Florida, include electric pressure cookers, rice cookers, electric bicycles, car alarms and microwave ovens. Bring on the TV dinners.

The memo promises that even more appliances will be available in 2009, including air-conditioners, which any Cuban would gladly swap his own mother for. They will also be able to enjoy the subtle crunchiness of toast, with the new availability of toasters in 2010.

Most electrical items were banned due to a lack of electricity rather than to any deep seated ideological reason. But now that Cuba’s friend, Hugo Chavez, has stepped in waving his cheque book, the daily blackouts should soon be a thing of the past.

Inquirer
Quote siemens 5th May 2008, 14:07
US people, can't hate comunism 'cause they dont know what it is
Quote cpemma 5th May 2008, 14:26
Quote:
Originally Posted by dom_
Personally i think it is about time america stopped being an arse and lifted the trade restrictions.
http://www.cpemma.co.uk/bit/bogeyman.jpg
Quote specofdust 5th May 2008, 14:40
Quote:
Originally Posted by siemens
US people, can't hate comunism 'cause they dont know what it is

What an unfortunate first post.

And why should the US lift trade restrictions on communism dom_? The US stands for everything that communism hates. Communism is the antithesis of the ideals that the US was founded on - it's only natural that the US would refuse to support or allow the support of communist states by businesses operating under their law. Facism as an ideology resulted in the genocide of 11 million people or so, and it's justly hated by nearly everybody. Communism as an ideology results in the death of somewhere around 100 million people and everyone still treats it like a legitimate and valid political choice.
Quote Xtrafresh 5th May 2008, 14:58
all these arseholes opinions... i'm going to cuba this summer, untill then i remain uninformed. The only thing i have to say about the cuban/US trade embargo is this:

As long as guantanomo bay remains in US hands and open for 'buisness', the US do not have the right to lecture anyone on ideologies, and least of all the Cubans.

Not that that makes Castro a saint though... i guess i'll see when i get there this summer :)
Quote karolis 5th May 2008, 15:03
The way i see it, comunict country cannot exist in capitalist world. Russia understood that. And now they are going ahead well. China understood that. And now we see immense rise in their ecooomy through international trade. Now it's Cuba's turn. It was just a matter of time. Such a small country cannot be self sufficient and idealogy different to every one of it's neighbours definitely doesn't help to negotiate. I wouldn't expect a sudden change in the way things are done there, but this is definitely a long awaited step forward.

P.S. Xtrafresh - i totally agree. Castro is not a saint, but he was an excellent leader. His biography speaks for itself. 50 years in power.
Quote Oclocker 5th May 2008, 15:15
Quote:
Originally Posted by specofdust
What an unfortunate first post.

And why should the US lift trade restrictions on communism dom_? The US stands for everything that communism hates. Communism is the antithesis of the ideals that the US was founded on - it's only natural that the US would refuse to support or allow the support of communist states by businesses operating under their law. Facism as an ideology resulted in the genocide of 11 million people or so, and it's justly hated by nearly everybody. Communism as an ideology results in the death of somewhere around 100 million people and everyone still treats it like a legitimate and valid political choice.

yes america stands for freedom! McCarthy was a great freedom fighter - where would the western world be without his legacy..

The facism and communist ideoligies you refer to were different means to the same end - totalitarin dictatorships, Cuba is but one of them. American freedom is an illusion - a father and son were chucked out of a mall because they wore anti-iraq war t-shirts. Thats US freedom in action!
Quote Da Dego 5th May 2008, 15:37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oclocker
yes america stands for freedom! McCarthy was a great freedom fighter - where would the western world be without his legacy..

The facism and communist ideoligies you refer to were different means to the same end - totalitarin dictatorships, Cuba is but one of them. American freedom is an illusion - a father and son were chucked out of a mall because they wore anti-iraq war t-shirts. Thats US freedom in action!
Ah, yet another person who does not live here that is more than happy to discuss what freedoms I have or do not have. While we're on the history books that are completely unrelated to Spec's (rather legitimate) question, shall I bring up the wonderful freedoms and democracy that the UK has had over its long ages? Wars, Kings, Monarchs, Dictators...But democracy is a rather new invention there, relatively speaking.

Surely, we can let past be past in this discussion - Americans learned quite a bit from McCarthyism (among other atrocities committed in the name of "Good"), which is why my country is quite divided about geopolitical issues now.

To imply that our freedoms are so stripped as your (rather unfortunate and off) example is as to say that the UK is no better than the kid who was killed for jumping a line at the tube because he was of mideastern heritage and carrying a rucksack.

With that said, perhaps we can move onto more current debates? ;) After all, the "OMG da US sux0rz!!" discussion really doesn't need to take place again...
Quote unrealhippie 5th May 2008, 15:54
My only worry is that only the corrupt can afford the computers at their current prices, but I suppose you have to start somewhere. Piggybacking Venzuela will be a massive step, giving them affordable internet access.
Quote cpemma 5th May 2008, 16:14
Quote:
Originally Posted by specofdust
...it's only natural that the US would refuse to support or allow the support of communist states by businesses operating under their law.
Quote:
In 2005, Vietnam's garment and textile exports to the United States is estimated at nearly US$2.63 billion, up 6.1 per cent; to the European Union (EU) around US$840 million, up 12 per cent; and to Japan around US$620 million, up 17 per cent, according to the Trade Ministry.

Nike, Adidas, Puma, Reebok, Skechers...

Fact is, Cuba doesn't have anything to offer bar cheap labour, and there's plenty of that available in countries that are worth dealing with;
Quote:
Vietnam exported 18.08 million tones of crude oil worth nearly US$7.39 billion in 2005, mainly to China, Singapore, Japan, Britain and the United States
And when mouthing off about the evils of communism from your comfortable middle-class existence, check out life in Russia, China, and Cuba before the revolutions. An absolute monarchy (or dictatorship) can be an extremely repressive society if you're not born to the ruling class.
Quote wolff000 5th May 2008, 21:22
I was born and have lived in the US my entire life and I can say that we are one of the most hypocritical countries on the planet. We scorn the "evil" ideologies of countries as long as we have nothing to gain by using them.

A perfect example of this is China a communist country that regularly murders and imprisons people for speaking what is on their mind. The exact thing Cuba does yet no trade embargoes. In fact they are our #1 importer of goods.

I find this sickening. I don't have a problem with chinese goods it means decent stuff cheap. (I like cheap.) What bothers me is how we chastise Cuba and keep ridiculous embargoes in place while doing business with China. Both countries have atrocious human rights records but we wouldn't make that much off of Cuba so we screw the poor people over. That's the only people the embargo hurts is the poor. The rich can afford to get the stuff they want including the Castros.

Anyways, I think it is great they have PCs now hopefully it is just the start of better things to come.
Quote johnmustrule 5th May 2008, 21:27
Yarg! another who has the most freedom debate, pointless. Nevertheless I believe we can all agree on the countries that have the least freedom "canada" and for now I'm hoping Raul will open up the internet gates to some people who are going to be very surprised once they have them.
Quote specofdust 5th May 2008, 21:41
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpemma
Nike, Adidas, Puma, Reebok, Skechers...

Fact is, Cuba doesn't have anything to offer bar cheap labour, and there's plenty of that available in countries that are worth dealing with;

And when mouthing off about the evils of communism from your comfortable middle-class existence, check out life in Russia, China, and Cuba before the revolutions. An absolute monarchy (or dictatorship) can be an extremely repressive society if you're not born to the ruling class.

Meh, when it benefits them, they go for it. Maybe it has something to do with Vietnam being far away from home. What do people expect?

And you don't need to lecture me on pre-revolution Russia, I'm quite familiar with Russian history. But that doesn't change the fact that most if not all communist governments have systematically murdered their populations and abused their power. What came before modern democratic capitalism in the western world sucked too. We had monarchies, the church, serfdom in our own way. At one time or another, every country has had it bad. What messes things up isn't people like me sitting in my comfortable middle-class chair and saying how bad communism is. What messes things up is preachy philosophy students who think that their imaginary perfect idealisms can somehow be applied to an imperfect race (that is, humanity) and not **** up everything up.
Quote LordPyrinc 5th May 2008, 23:39
No country is perfect. We all have our good points and bad points.

Back to the subject at hand... I think this is good for Cuba. Even small steps are good. Sometimes small steps lead to a much easier transition than giant leaps.
Quote Oclocker 6th May 2008, 00:02
Quote:
Originally Posted by Da Dego
Ah, yet another person who does not live here that is more than happy to discuss what freedoms I have or do not have. While we're on the history books that are completely unrelated to Spec's (rather legitimate) question, shall I bring up the wonderful freedoms and democracy that the UK has had over its long ages? Wars, Kings, Monarchs, Dictators...But democracy is a rather new invention there, relatively speaking.

Surely, we can let past be past in this discussion - Americans learned quite a bit from McCarthyism (among other atrocities committed in the name of "Good"), which is why my country is quite divided about geopolitical issues now.

To imply that our freedoms are so stripped as your (rather unfortunate and off) example is as to say that the UK is no better than the kid who was killed for jumping a line at the tube because he was of mideastern heritage and carrying a rucksack.

With that said, perhaps we can move onto more current debates? ;) After all, the "OMG da US sux0rz!!" discussion really doesn't need to take place again...

The US don't suxOrz(current leadership not included) - and no fan of communism in real world enviroment but any claim about freedom regarding the current US leadership is baloney. Currently freedom US style seems to involve only the Dubya interpretation & as I doubt Dubya could spell it I don't want to trust freedom to the current US government (Not that I would trust Brown etc any more. UK most spied on population in world I gather ) I do know the US a bit, Daughter married to US guy & 2 dual citizen grandkids.. I think a difference needs to be noted between anti-US (gov vs people)

Bit like the very strong anti-french feelings in the US after Iraq ( liberty fries not French fries :( ) Oh and Carlos Mendes was a Brazilian shot in error as mistaken for a middle easter terrorist.
Quote koola 6th May 2008, 00:21
Quote:
Originally Posted by specofdust
What messes things up is preachy philosophy students who think that their imaginary perfect idealisms can somehow be applied to an imperfect race (that is, humanity) and not **** up everything up.

QFT.
Quote badders 6th May 2008, 11:45
Say hello to my Little Friend! - The Microsoft Office Paperclip! MUHAHAHAHAHA!
Quote dom_ 6th May 2008, 12:31
Quote:
Originally Posted by specofdust
Meh, when it benefits them, they go for it. Maybe it has something to do with Vietnam being far away from home. What do people expect?

And you don't need to lecture me on pre-revolution Russia, I'm quite familiar with Russian history. But that doesn't change the fact that most if not all communist governments have systematically murdered their populations and abused their power. What came before modern democratic capitalism in the western world sucked too. We had monarchies, the church, serfdom in our own way. At one time or another, every country has had it bad. What messes things up isn't people like me sitting in my comfortable middle-class chair and saying how bad communism is. What messes things up is preachy philosophy students who think that their imaginary perfect idealisms can somehow be applied to an imperfect race (that is, humanity) and not **** up everything up.

Wow.

Don't want to enter a fight because i know you will enjoy it too much.

I know that communism does not work, it goes against human nature. I never said i agreed with it.

What i do disagree with is America taking one action on cuba and another on other countries. It has no real reason at all to keep the restricitons in place. What threat did cuba ever pose without russia and china behind it?
Quote Jipa 6th May 2008, 13:45
America's Cuba-policy is just total and utter BS, but that's nothing new. Good for Cuban people, computers can after all be used for good things. (no, I don't mean pr0n)
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