If high-definition downloads are ever to become commonplace, ISPs need technology like P4P.

If high-definition downloads are ever to become commonplace, ISPs need technology like P4P.

US ISP Verizon has decided on an interesting approach to the increased transit costs peer-to-peer file sharing users create: improve the software.

Verizon has become a founder member of the Distributed Computing Industry Association's P4P Workgroup, which is looking into creating a standard protocol for carrier-grade peer-to-peer file transfer systems. The news is good for both the carrier and the end-user, too: tests indicate that both the performance of the file download and the congestion on the network were both improved.

P4P isn't, as the name might imply, two better than P2P but instead stands for Pro-active network Provider Participation for P2P. Yes, it's a bit laboured but points for trying, guys.

The idea is to create a system whereby Internet Service Providers are able to communicate information regarding network conductions to the client P2P application in order to improve performance and lower network congestion. By giving the client software information about P2P users that are close in terms of network routing, the software is able to choose seeds in a way which maximises routing efficiency.

This system relies on gathering as much data about the network conditions around all users of a particular torrent, so the group is keen to see its technology adopted as an official standard. Much like BitTorrent, the idea is that the more ISPs use the system the more efficient it'll be.

As usual the group has given no indication on when we're likely to see the technology implemented, but with ever-increasing resistance to throttling as a way to reduce data tranist costs it's clear that ISPs desperately need something to keep them afloat.

Do you see this as a way of increasing the performance of your P2P downloads, or just the ISPs looking to increase their bottom line? Share your thoughts over in the forums.
Quote DarkReaper 17th March 2008, 11:55
I'm all for transfer speeds increasing - my worry would be that if this is implemented does that then effectively give ISPs an excuse to keep records of P2P traffic?
Quote OleJ 17th March 2008, 12:04
Quote:
Do you see this as a way of increasing the performance of your P2P downloads, or just the ISPs looking to increase their bottom line?

To me it's just a great example of synergy. As long as they don't use it to pull surveillance into the deal but strictly try to optimize bittorrent efficiency then it's all good news.
Quote DXR_13KE 17th March 2008, 12:40
as long as the media is cheap enough and you are not flooded by ads then i am all in.....
Quote Redbeaver 17th March 2008, 12:43
if u cant beat em, join em.
Quote OtakuHawk 17th March 2008, 14:19
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkReaper
I'm all for transfer speeds increasing - my worry would be that if this is implemented does that then effectively give ISPs an excuse to keep records of P2P traffic?
they already do that.
Quote TomH 17th March 2008, 20:21
Quote:
Originally Posted by OtakuHawk
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkReaper
I'm all for transfer speeds increasing - my worry would be that if this is implemented does that then effectively give ISPs an excuse to keep records of P2P traffic?
they already do that.
Yes, however, with the up-coming popularity of encryption between peers, I'm sure they'd love to have a nice work-around to know who's requesting which pieces (of what) from whom.
Quote Cthippo 17th March 2008, 20:50
Color me cynical.

This would be great news is the ISPs wern't all money grubbing whores who were owned by content producers and therefore have an interest in controlling what content you can access.

It wouldn't be a problem if ISPs were just ISPs. unfortunatly all the broadband ISPs also want to be TV and phone providers and so they have a vested interest in not allowing you to download competing content that might keep you from buying their other services. That, plus the fact that they have shown a distinct willingness to roll over for the government on providing customer information, means that i want them as involved as LITTLE as possible in my web expierience.
Quote proxess 17th March 2008, 21:19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cthippo
I want them as involved as LITTLE as possible in my web expierience.
Quote Amon 19th March 2008, 21:11
This concept is straight out of the CCNA curriculum and the idea (or similar function) was already conceived by Cisco Systems Inc. ten or more years ago and is already partially implemented by corporate networks today. The problem with this system is that the 'broadcast' of network health doesn't really save much network congestion at all and can cause congestion on very large networks, like the Internet. This is because the Internet is configured in such a way that the broadcast might echo back and forth between the same recipients (or within the same subnetworks) before it reached its hop limit and expire--basically, not all routing hubs are 'informed' as needed. The additional resources required to 'map out' the massive network would have been better spent on simply expanding or improving existing routing paths.
Quote laird 20th March 2008, 00:09
Amon, P4P takes a very different approach from a router level 'broadcast of network health'. What P4P does is provide a standard way for ISP's to tell P2P systems how to tell which IP address are near each other in the network, so that the P2P networks can preferentially connect those peers. As such, it's a very low overhead application level protocol.

The problem that P4P addresses is the inefficiency of random peer assignments as used by most p2p systems. For example, imagine that you're downloading a file from a swarm with 10,000 peers, one of whom is right next to you. Using standard BitTorrent you would be 99.5% likely not to find out about the best peer on the first announce, and only 50% likely to find out about the best peer in 200 minutes, and have no guarantee of ever finding out about the best peer. With P4P, the network knows that you two are next to each other, so you're connected immediately. The result is that with P4P you download most data from peers that you're well connected with, resulting in 200% speedups (on average) for FTTH users compared to standard P2P. It also results in a 50% reduction in inter-ISP data transfers, which ISP's like. So we have a happy situation where this improvement in efficiency improves performance for users, and reduces costs to ISP's.

- Laird Popkin, CTO, Pando Networks and Co-Chair of P4P Working Group
Quote Cthippo 20th March 2008, 00:23
Welcome aboard, Laird. It sounds like a neat thechnology, but the industry is going to have to answer privacy and monitoring concerns before I see this really taking off.
Quote laird 20th March 2008, 01:24
That's an important point, Cthippo - P4P has an intermediary between the ISP and the P2P network in order to protect the privacy of both. So the P2P network doesn't get a copy of the ISP's network map, just 'hints' to help figure out what IP addresses are near each other. And the ISP doesn't get any information about what's going on in the P2P network.
Quote Amon 20th March 2008, 03:50
Ah, that clears it up a bit for me, then. Are there any necessary changes to or replacement of existing routing devices, or modification of the network structure? I'm not unconvinced of the advantage of P4P, but I'm a bit skeptical that such a drastic improvement can be produced on the Net's existing infrastructure.
Quote laird 23rd March 2008, 14:12
P4P is entirely application level - there are no changes to the networking infrastructure. So implementing it is a lot easier thana network level approach.
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