Gruesome games like Postal 2 can have a negative effect on adult behaviour.

Gruesome games like Postal 2 can have a negative effect on adult behaviour.

Researchers from the University of Michigan have just released the results of an extensive study into the effect of violent TV shows and computer games on adult behaviour. The results aren't good for gamers.

The study, which was set over thirty-year and looked at 856 children, found that violent games and TV shows have a very dramatic and detrimental effect on the behaviour of the test subjects - more so than other factors.

"[The study found that] repeated exposure to violent television shows and video games have a stronger influence on aggressive behaviour than being poor, having substance abuse or growing up with abusive parents," said the report, which was revealed to Fox Business, of all places.

Researchers universally agreed that the results had "profoundly serious implications for society."

The report found specifically that men who were exposed to gruesome television shows or computer games became more likely to assault their partners physically. Women became more likely to attack other adults by throwing things or entering into aggressive behaviour.

It isn't all bad news though and the researchers also point out that, although violent video games have increased in popularity since 1990, crime levels have decreased consistently and that European countries have lower crime rates still, despite having access to the same content.

Do games make you more violent or angry? What's the most violent game you've ever played? How do we tackle this problem and can we take this report seriously? Let us know what you think in the forums.
Downloand Mercenaries 2: World In Flames Now!
Quote Nexxo 6th December 2007, 16:08
I'd have to read the actual research article, but I think the direction of the relationship is not as clear as is presented. It could be argued that it is the sort of environment that fosters a culture of violence (by normalising or even glorifying it, or allowing casual, uncontrolled exposure to violence) that raises violent adults. What may matter most is not if little Johnny plays violent video games or watches violent TV, but whether he is interested or allowed to do so because he grows up with the sort of parents who don't see anything wrong with violence.

The drop in crime since the 90's is of course more to do with Roe vs. Wade. And the lower crime rates in Europe despite exposure to the content suggests that access to means still outweighs motive. One for the sociologists and the gun lobby, me thinks.
Quote Drexial 6th December 2007, 16:35
for the love of god..... not another study. i beg of you bit-tech... its not worth reporting these anymore.
Quote Hells_Bliss 6th December 2007, 16:38
meh, violent fps's etc. are my stress relief. I'd rather shoot some n00bs in virtual games then shoot some ****ing twats in real life. but hey thats just me
Quote TreeDude 6th December 2007, 16:40
Wait a sec. They say it makes us more violent and then tell us crime has gone down? Isn't that kind of contradicting?

And another thing. Your saying that a person who grows up with parents who beat the **** out of them is less likely to be a violent person that someone who regularly plays violent games or watches violent TV, but has normal parents? B ****ing S.
Quote Delphium 6th December 2007, 16:57
rarrrrrargggg, these results are lies I tell you, LIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*goes on a violent rampage down the street attacking totaly random people.








ERRR yea!, I dont really see that happening tbh!!!
Quote Lowsidex2 6th December 2007, 17:04
Games don't make me violent.. they make me lazy. Otherwise I'd bother to find the report that said the exact opposite a short time ago. All these studies from global warming to aids epidemics are skewed to show exactly what the researchers what to show. There's no impartiality anymore so don't believe any of it.
Quote specofdust 6th December 2007, 17:23
Games don't make me violent. People make me violent. Stupidity makes me violent. I make me violent.

Games don't make me violent though, they just make me less bored.
Quote Nexxo 6th December 2007, 17:25
Quote:
Originally Posted by TreeDude
Wait a sec. They say it makes us more violent and then tell us crime has gone down? Isn't that kind of contradicting?
Exactly. They have found an association, but assumed the direction. And they haven't found a plausible explanation to fit their observation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TreeDude
And another thing. Your saying that a person who grows up with parents who beat the **** out of them is less likely to be a violent person that someone who regularly plays violent games or watches violent TV, but has normal parents? B ****ing S.
That's exactly my point: who says that someone who regularly plays violent games and watches violent TV grows up in a "normal" household?

To put it specifically: about 20% of abused childred grow up to become abusive adults. That leaves 80% who don't (and in fact make a special effort not to). Being the victim of abuse can make you identify with other victims just as much as with abusers. You may learn that the only way to avoid being a victim is to be an abuser yourself, but that is not the same as valuing violence as a positive lifestyle choice.

Bad parenting can take many different forms. There are plenty of households which are not explicitly abusive, but which just normalise (or even glorify) violence in general. The child gets exposed to plenty of examples of might-makes-right, violence as the main way to resolve conflict and assert oneself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BBC News
Zara Olver, 21, her 48-year-old mother Carole, and sisters Serenza Olver, 29, and Danielle Olver, 19, all admitted child cruelty at Plymouth Crown Court.

In the footage, a boy in a nappy was called a "wimp" for not hitting his sister back after she struck him.

The women laughed as the children hit each other with brushes and magazines.

But the footage was found by chance by the toddlers' father, on leave from the army, and he told social services.

The boy, aged two, is seen crying after being punched in the face by his three-year-old sister and is told by one of the four women in the room "not to be a wimp or a faggot" and to hit the girl back.

The court heard that, when interviewed by police, Carole Olver said: "I didn't see any harm in toughening them up - I done the same with my own children."

The child may get some beatings, but that is not the main dynamic. The main dynamic is the messages it gets about one's relationship to the world: life is war, dog eats dog, get them before they can get you, violence maketh the man. Violence is normalised and even glorified. Little Johhny gets to play Postal and watch violent movies simply because the parents don't see anything wrong with it. They may even think it is a normal, healthy interest for a boy growing up to be a man, not a pussy. But playing those video games and watching those movies is not what makes little Johhnie a violent thug when he grows up; it is the family environment that allowed or even encouraged him to do so.
Quote capnPedro 6th December 2007, 17:39
Correlation is not causation.

Bonus alternate post:
Stupid ****ing researchers, I should stab them all up! Lies, lies lies... games don't make people violent and I have a large knife here that will back me up! Yeah...
Quote Bungle 6th December 2007, 17:49
Well I take all these reports with a pinch of salt. I've seen more cases of Violence linked to the game of football (which is our national game) than any computer game. Never heard anyone try and Ban football, yet there's pretty much a culture of Hooliganism built up around the game. If you look carefully you'll see the political scape Goat.:(
Quote Lazarus Dark 6th December 2007, 18:08
TV does make me violent.

I watch the news and see the stupidity of the government and the world and it really PISSES ME OFF.


But virtual violence? Call me _not_ crazy, but I can separate the virtual from the real.
Quote pendragon 6th December 2007, 18:14
ugh, this is just more useless fodder for Jack Thompson :(
Quote Bungle 6th December 2007, 18:18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexxo
But playing those video games and watching those movies is not what makes little Johhnie a violent thug when he grows up; it is the family environment that allowed or even encouraged him to do so.
Maybe we should do our own report and push to get bad parenting Banned.:D
Quote will. 6th December 2007, 18:29
I just shoot a cat every so often.

BOOOM HEADSHOT!
Quote EmJay 6th December 2007, 18:34
I was going to say something about cause, effect, and bad assumptions thereof, but it looks like that's already been done.

Considering that people on this forum are generally pretty games-friendly, I'd be curious to know: if you have children, do you limit their access to violent video games? I'm asking about only violence here, not other mature content. In other words, do you think there might be anything to the 'games cause violence' thing, and if so, do you personally act on it? And why?

I don't have kids, but when I was growing up my parents never really limited our access to violent video games. Then again, we never got any more violent than Halo, so there wasn't much to worry about. They might have reacted differently if we'd been interested in gory stuff. ;)
Quote TGImages 6th December 2007, 18:49
Quote:
The study, which was set over thirty-year and looked at 856 children
Quote:
The report found specifically that men.... Women became


Ok, so did the report look at children or adults? Or was this children growing up over 30 years? In this case, 30 years ago they were playing pong... not exactly a violent game.
Quote Rebourne 6th December 2007, 18:59
Ahhhhhhrrrrrrr I'll kill them all, that will teach them to release reports like this.
Quote TreeDude 6th December 2007, 19:14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexxo
Quote:
Originally Posted by TreeDude
And another thing. Your saying that a person who grows up with parents who beat the **** out of them is less likely to be a violent person that someone who regularly plays violent games or watches violent TV, but has normal parents? B ****ing S.
That's exactly my point: who says that someone who regularly plays violent games and watches violent TV grows up in a "normal" household?

I have played video games for a good portion of my life. From the original Doom on my 32X when I was around 9, to Quake 3 on my Dreamcast when I was 15. I also watched Terminator 2 when I was only 8 (though, my mom wanted to kill my dad for letting me see it). I didn't watch/play violent things constantly though because it wasn't the violence that drew me in. I also watched a ton of cartoons and the discovery channel a lot.

My parents taught me that what is on the TV isn't real and the I should never try and mimic it. I never did. There is too much blame on other things. Parents need to step up and start taking better care of their kids. They are the only ones to blame. just because their are violent things on the market doesn't mean your kids need to have it. You can say no. As for retailers selling the game to young kids, I don't see that anymore. I know 4 people who work at 2 local Game Stops and they have a strict policy against selling to M rated games to underage kids.
Quote Nexxo 6th December 2007, 19:55
Quote:
Originally Posted by TreeDude
I have played video games for a good portion of my life. From the original Doom on my 32X when I was around 9, to Quake 3 on my Dreamcast when I was 15. I also watched Terminator 2 when I was only 8 (though, my mom wanted to kill my dad for letting me see it). I didn't watch/play violent things constantly though because it wasn't the violence that drew me in. I also watched a ton of cartoons and the discovery channel a lot.
Exactly: you were not specifically interested in violence. Doom was hardly violent (unless you consider the merciless slaughter of blocky pixels violent) and Quake 3 was hardly, well, realistic. Terminator 2 was not very violent either --Arnie doesn't actually get to kill anyone and you see T2 at work perhaps three times --and even then not explicitly. You could argue that all these examples fall under "cartoon violence".

In that respect, when Emjay asks:
Quote:
Originally Posted by EmJay
Considering that people on this forum are generally pretty games-friendly, I'd be curious to know: if you have children, do you limit their access to violent video games? I'm asking about only violence here, not other mature content. In other words, do you think there might be anything to the 'games cause violence' thing, and if so, do you personally act on it? And why?
my answer would be that I'd like to think that I'd raise my kids not to be interested in violence. I wouldn't have to limit their access to violent games simply because they wouldn't be very interested in playing them.

In short, I think that playing violent games and watching violent movies is not the cause of violent behaviour, but a symptom.
Quote Major 6th December 2007, 19:57
The only reason I can flip instantly into a rage is because I got bullied pretty hardcore for 3-4 years when I was in school, not because I play FPS games.

I hate these studies, bunch of tossers doing it.
Quote TreeDude 6th December 2007, 20:57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexxo
Exactly: you were not specifically interested in violence. Doom was hardly violent (unless you consider the merciless slaughter of blocky pixels violent) and Quake 3 was hardly, well, realistic. Terminator 2 was not very violent either --Arnie doesn't actually get to kill anyone and you see T2 at work perhaps three times --and even then not explicitly. You could argue that all these examples fall under "cartoon violence".

The games I listed were the most violent for the time. They are considered cartoonish now, but they weren't back in the day. Also T2 was considered to be very violent as well, Arnold didn't kill anyone, but Robert Patrick sure as hell did. I do suppose there are movies like the original Dawn of the Dead and Day of the Dead movies which were far gorier (also saw those in my mid teens).

But I don't think most people play violent games simply because they like violence. They play them because they are good games. I mean who the hell plays Postal anyways? Not many. It did not sell millions of copies because quite frankly they are pretty shallow games. I love FPSs because of the competition, not the violence. I hardly ever play single player FPS campaigns anymore. Multiplayer is where it's at. I like competing.

My point is everyone only looks at the violence present in the game. As if that is it's only fun factor, and the people who say it don't know because they don't play the games.
Quote wolff000 6th December 2007, 22:19
I would like to know how many of these kids who played violent games and watched violent tv had parents who supported and nurtured them. I was aloud to watch and play whatever I pleased growing up. I and my two brothers are not violent people. I also continue to play and watch violent games and movies. I would bet that this study did not take a whole lot in to account in theses peoples lives. This is most likely just another bs report, I'll have to read it before I can say for sure though.
Quote Major 6th December 2007, 22:36
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolff000
I would like to know how many of these kids who played violent games and watched violent tv had parents who supported and nurtured them. I was aloud to watch and play whatever I pleased growing up. I and my two brothers are not violent people. I also continue to play and watch violent games and movies. I would bet that this study did not take a whole lot in to account in theses peoples lives. This is most likely just another bs report, I'll have to read it before I can say for sure though.

QFT ;)

My brother started playing GTA San Andreas at 8 years old, of course I didn't know, sneaky bugger, but he's not affected by it, and doesn't even want to play it.

And he isn't violent.
Quote bubsterboo 6th December 2007, 23:57
Hahah, Postal2....

I played that game a while ago, couldn't stop laughing from how violent and messed up it was.

Hasn't affected me in the least though.
Quote Brett89 7th December 2007, 05:25
What a shockingly NEW discovery!
Quote sub routine 7th December 2007, 07:29
Thats a revolutionary breakthrough. I can`t believe it. Surely violent books must make you more violent also? They never mention literature. Or a predillection for violence? Maybe people are as violent as ever they just play games now instead of battering folk as the crime results would have you believe? lol

I wonder what games Jack the Ripper played?

But I do think it`s wierd that as a society we are awed by guns`n` stuff. Most of my favourite games and the content of most games involves maiming and killing as many people as possible.
Quote Ghys 7th December 2007, 20:51
the word 'violence' itself is extremely overrated
Quote rhuitron 9th December 2007, 09:35
WTF are they TALKING ABOUT!!!!!!

This makes me ANGRY!!!!!

Just becasue I played postal doesnt mean I am and ANGRY PERSON!!!!!

**** YOU Michigan U! :(
Quote dwtherock 10th December 2007, 18:18
Hey look, I play Q3,4 FEAR, UT (All) CoD2 etc.... now for the ocassioanl gamer I think it's OK. Those that game more than 2-4 hours might be hard core gamers but guess what....the thought starts up in the ehad to do wrong. If you are not strong enough to correct or curb your attitude then you shouldn't play. I am a born again Christian playing games but for the sake of the kewl guns and mods (vehicles). When I am done I am studying Bible, Cisco or whatever else. I don't think lil kids or weak people should play violent games. Only those with good moral standing who know the black and white from from wrong have the ability to control the hate and anger inside. heck, I have walked away from so many fights that I know were over nothing.

So everyone, get a grip, on the Word of God, your life and be a positive influence on those around you. The reward is AMAZING!
Quote Ghys 10th December 2007, 19:37
you shouldn't praise religion on a public forum ... it usually turns ugly
Quote ryanjleng 10th December 2007, 20:16
This feels FISHY and smells rottened with agenda. this sure feels like "A Clockwork Orange" all over again...

Do read or listen to Freakonomics by Steven Levitt about fall in the crime rates.

Playing more games may be a symptom of some deeper or broader issues, and it may not. It is easy to use statistics to draw whatever conclusion... sample size, randomness in sample population, age distribution, criteria shaping and definition, etc.

I can also statistically prove that the most religious people are more violent than less religious gamers who play violent games.

This one goes down with mobile phone cause brain cancer.

These people are 'Post Hoc, Ergo Propter Hoc' idiots
Quote Major 10th December 2007, 20:18
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwtherock
So everyone, get a grip, on the Word of God, your life and be a positive influence on those around you. The reward is AMAZING!

Lol.
Quote Stev3 11th December 2007, 19:28
I am of the opinion that games just show part of human nature. If you look at history, we have been living in a time when the average person lives in relative peace. We (in America) haven't had a war touch our soil in 150 years. hundreds and thousands of years ago, people were getting killed all over the place. there aren't all these castles all over Europe for no reason.

I think human nature is violent, so these games are not making us more violent, just expressing it in a relaxing way. People like Jack Thompson look at the rise of crime in the last decade, and say "There is a slight rise in violent domestic crime. There are also lots of violent games. obviously, they are connected." That's a rather large conclusion to draw. How about a rather simple, more logical possibility? A bunch of morons grew up in the 60s/70s, had kids, two jobs, and no time for the former. as a result, kids went along the path of human nature, as expressed in the above paragraph. Id, THQ, Bioware, Valve, Activision, and similar companies are just capitalizing on a generation's poor job raising their kids. Consider that, and let me get some headshots in peace. :)
Quote MrMonroe 22nd May 2008, 15:20
The study does not imply causation... I wonder why the Bit-Tech article title does?
Quote Mr_Sinister 22nd May 2008, 15:35
all i can say about this is BullS*@t

Games if anything will stop violent thoughts, as you get rid of your anger on the game, instead of on real people.

so if you can not tell the diff between killing some one in a game and in real life, then your need to be put in a mental home on lots of wacky drugs. :(
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