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New iMac disassembled
Author: Joe MartinPublished: 9th August 2007
The new iMac, ripped open for the crows to feast on. Mwhahahaha.
Okay, okay - that is just friendly prejudice and Apple isn't really all that bad, but we were still glad to see what's inside the new, fourth-generation iMac.
Enter Kodawarisan, a Japanese site which has taken apart a new iMac ever-so-carefully just so that we, Internet freaks, can satisfy our raging curiosity.
As usual, it's nothing actually ground-breaking and the iMac still incorporates all the usual PC hardware - DVD burner, SATA drive, etc. - but as Engadget points out, it's still fascinating just to see how Apple has crammed all of it into such a small shell.
Kodawarisan has got the full image set, but we've got a fistful of the most important images below to give you the general idea of what lays on the other side of the fence.
In the mean time, you can head over to the forums to let us know just what you think of Mac computers as a whole and exactly why they always have to be so damn stylish and sexy.
The original iMac / the cover removed
The guts / main heatpipe
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G3 -> G4 lampshade -> G5 all-in-one -> Intel all-in-one -> Intel all-in-one v2.0
I don't see where the iMac fits, it strikes me as the worst of both worlds, a Macbook without the portability, or a Mac Pro without the power and customisability.
But it does look damn sexy, so maybe that's the salient point?:?
I've used iMacs a lot, and I must say they're quite convenient even though they're completely sealed, but thats what I have my windows machine for right? :p
I guess the engineer in me just wonders why they don't design a tablet style flippy-over-twisty-round-screen Macbook to go on a nice brushed aluminium stand with a nice wireless keyboard and mouse. You get the same effect but with portability when you want it.
I'm impressed with how they managed to get all that stuff into such a small case as everyone else. But as everyone else I can't see this happen without running into overheating issues. This one better be far better designed than the 360. ;)
Where's the nice computer with a nice clean install of Windows?
sony has some windows desktops with the same approach...
http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&productId=8198552921665089229
all it is, is basically a notebook with the screen mounted the wrong way round (true for both the mac and the sony one)
I do like Apple stuff (apart from the iPod), and love the whole concept/history. But I still can't stand the way they advertise their machines, relying on blatant insults and stereotyping.
As for PCs with similar design - there's no point. The PC market is so competitive that expensive, nicely designed computers just wouldn't sell. PCs are generally cheap and cheerful on the outside, but have beasty innards.
It's not that we hate macs, we don't, it's the stuck up, self important, supercilious little twats that rave on about them being 'perfect machines' that we don't like.
edit:
so its not that you dont like macs, its that you dont like being told how perfect they are? there are problems wih macs. hard to build one from scratch, hard to upgrade parts other than ram/hd, and the biggest problem is very limited support for gaming. although u can install vista or xp and play games that way, which is a hassle.
Another thing is the OS doesn't do anything new that Windows can't do already. I like Windows, there's no reason for me to use OS X (and a Hell of a lot of OS X things piss me off).
I completely agree!
A few mm extra thickness would be well worth it as a tradeoff to make it a functional laptop as well. After all, it is essentially just a laptop with no battery anyway.
Hardware locked to a whatever screen it comes with, virtually zero opportunity for individual style and a system that looks like a 'Towers of Hanoi' puzzle on Acid to try and take apart and put together.
I'd rather have something with a focus on functionality (inside and out) and customisability rather than a system tied to an overrated minimalist style and a design worthy of a "No user servicable parts inside" label.
Of course it's subjective, and thousands of fashionable people out there just love their 'cool' iMacs/iPods/iPhones/iClothes/iHair which "just work", but I'm certainly not one of them.
However, by the same token, this is (probably) why they no longer offer the smaller version, only 20 and 24. They probably couldn't cram all that jazz in there. I'm sure if they found a way, they could make an affordable 17 inch imac since 17inch panels are pretty cheap.
I wanna get rid of the stand though and mount it on a VESA mount on the wall the use it as a sort of TV. that would be so freakin awesome. Then maybe I could mod it so the monitor can take multiple inputs!
e/ oh an i wish they would update the mac mini (or discontinue it so i can buy it cheap)
They refreshed the hardware and design of the mini :http://www.apple.com/macmini/
http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/wa/RSLID?nnmm=browse&mco=9A515E80&node=home/desktop/mac_mini
Still love my laptop (non mac!) with xp mce.
P.S. The iMac looks lovely. What's the little circuit board in the top left of the 'back-of-case' shot though? Next to the hard drive?
Eggzactly. ;)
Besides If Apple went belly up(God forbid), Their little niche would go poof soon enough.:D
I think he was playing it up to humorous effect...or he could be an anti-Apple fanboy zealot without any journalistic integrity, I dunno. ;)
I wouldn't have one. See my previous sentence for reasoning.
As I pointed out in the article, it was nothing more than friendly banter and not serious. I personally don't like Macs, true, but then again I'm a games writer, who cares only about PCs as a games machine and Macs just don't offer me anything in that regard.
And nobody here in the office uses a Mac. I know at least half of them don't have them at home too...:?
"Be an indivual by doing what everyone else does and get an iPod/iBook"
"Macs dont come with loads of useless programmes installed"
"Macs, everything you need out of the box"
So if its everything you need out of the box surely you have some one at the mac store who magically knows what i want and installs it for me? No? Then how can it be everything i need out of the box. And what if i dont need all those programmes surely then the mac comes with useless programmes installed?
Once again i'm not debating how "good" a mac is, as for some people they're perfect, I', just having a go at apple's branding, ad campaigns and a good majority of holier than thou mac users. Hmm i can taste the outrage at the genius bar now.
<A88>
There is nothing anyone can say, to counteract such blatent and moronic ignorance, on such a grand scale. If you opened your minds as much as you opened your PCs, you would see the difference, without any persuasion from us "Fanboys".
I laugh not at your PC, but at your sheer ignorance to anything that is not designed by some back street Taiwanese sweatshop factory. Jonathan Ive is a highly respected industrial designer, and head of the Apple design team. Maybe some of you nice people should Google his name, and spend less time knocking products and a way of life, of which you are completely ignorant.
Thanks folks - just needed to be said.
Also the only Mac users in the BiT office is Jamie and Rtt has one at home. I sold mine a while ago as it was just way too slow.
We like pretentious sounding words and buzz phrases idiom, consumer targeting and formtion (form and function for those who dont speak BS) And I dont really know how PCs are made nor understand why you wish to put your heart and soul into making something unique that pleases you.
We are better than you and dont even need to argue our case because we are so obviously better
I'm better than you again but this time you are ignorant fools as well :O
Lets name drop here shall we?
Join us.....
And i'm sorry if some people find this inflammatory but i found it funny, especially the "way of life" BS. FFS its a machine that does things that make you life a little more fun/enjoyable/bareible to live.
Well actually I do, did and HAVE, built many PCs over the years (years meaning that I STILL do so, if paid to do it). A PC is simply a matter of plugging and screwing, tweaking and installing drivers. Do you think, REALLY, it is some amazing skill, passed on from father to son?. Basically, a PC building project is a slightly more advanced version of LEGO - not hard, but does require patience and a little intelligence and logical thinking.
If you carry your intended point across, by dropping a "f***" here, or a "b*llsh*t" every couple of paragraphs, then this is evidence enough, to show us that you are using your profanity as some kind of "shield" against your ineptitude, and inability to uphold a conversation of any sort, let alone a rational debate where you are trying to "argue" your point.
I am a computer geek - I always was some kind of geek. I pulled things apart since I was 5 ( I am now 32 ), repaired machines and have had numerous jobs in electronics over the years, mainly designing and faultfinding PCBs and PLC control systems, mixed in with a time of consumer brown goods servicing. SO, you can safely assume that I am more than comfortable with the comparatively primitive and mundane skills required to build a PC, but thanks for the insults.
I have moved on to Mac, because I admire Apple designs, and I admire and appreciate the quality and complete usabilty of the OS and the applications that run upon it. I agree that a lot of Apple "fanboys" can come across as arrogant and snooty; I have had arguments with my fair share, but I still admire Macs for my own personal reasons, not because I want to become a member of some "club", full of brainwashed idiots.
{PS}
I am no better than ANYONE - noone is. However, if my quite normal and intelligent use of the English language confuses you, then what can I say?. You should learn to take criticism on the chin - this is the internet, but we ain't all morons thankyou. If you can't take the heat, get outa the kitchen!. I am not here to make enemies, but it would seem a lot of my fellow members, want to do JUST that!.
Referring to: http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=macs_cant
...and the comment at the bottom of the page:
Well funny that, because Quicktime comes as a STANDALONE installer, also. Grand FUD-master if ever I saw one, making pointless and childish rant sites, using OVERSIZED FONTS to try and get his impotent point across.
And also:
http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/images/eula.gif
Probably safe to say that this is a joke, that would only be picked up upon by anyone STUPID enough to actually read ALL of any EULA. Safe to say, anyone so dumb, is bound to be the type to take it seriously!. :)
If there is anyone that is supposed to have some kind of attitude problem in the computing world, then this is a shining example of that mindset, distilled and refined by mixing with other rant-happy chappies, with nothing better to do than slate the things that, if they spoke from the bottom of their hearts, as opposed to the HEART OF THEIR BOTTOMS, they would admit they didn't actually know enough about the "other side", to comment adequately!.
Guys... chaps... comrades... (whatever :)) There is a very good phrase you can use, and it saves a lot of hassle if someone confronts you about a subject on which you don't think you can advise them properly(and it's ONLY 4 words long)
"Sorry, I don't know"
There - simple. (and I better explain the outcome of this phrase, using your terminology: it STOPS YOU LOOKING LIKE AN INCOMPETENT D*CKHEAD!)
that kid lives a sad and lonely life and is also everything he hates. white, a mac user, and an over ass, not to mention a looser.
macs aint perfect and pc's sure as hell aint either. macs are for some people and pc are for other people. the only people ive seen in this thread talking **** about the other is the pc users, yet they are the ones talking about how thats the only thing apple users do.....
I have always admired the inherent, uncontrollable instability of irony, and you have just encapsulated my very thoughts. Props to you, my friend.
All the others: stop feeding the troll.
Trolls are all around us... turn your head, and you see them in every direction...
Funny as it may seem, I am allowed to express my opinion, just the same as anyone else on this forum. Please, don't condescend - it really isn't very sociable. What is quite amusing, is that you allow an ENTIRE THREAD to continue, unabated, with evey form of ignorance and insult under the sun, hurled to and fro. Then, along comes someone making a valid point and speaking sense to the anti-fanboys, and you call ME a troll?. Amusing really, and I could have predicted such a thing, which makes it quite a bore.
However... I wish to get on with my evening, and not mindlessly debate a subject upon which my opinion is firmly and justifiably decided, so... On topic:
All platforms have their own merits, I simply despise anti-fanboys, as much as I do fanboys. Period. Thanks.
{PS} PC = *Personal* Computer, not "anything that isn't Mac"/<insert type of computer here>
Nobody was hurtling any personal insults before you. Can the attitude or your next post may be your last.
If you back up, you will see I didn't say "personal" insults, ok. Yes I agree, the tedium has reached a bearable limit, sorry!. :)
How ironic, in a non-ironic kinda way. Anyhow, I hold my tongue.
STFU
Now let's get back on topic about how they cram all the hardware into a small space, and the intricacies (sp?) of the internal design of the new iMac.
That is all
As an aside, the bit in the EULA with regards to missile systems and that nonsense is not intended as a joke - it's intended as a massive CYA write-off.
I'd like to make it known that not all Mac users are this offensive in trying to prove such a useless viewpoint. If someone asks me for a recommendation about what kind of comp to buy, I'll explain the pluses and minuses of both PC and Mac and let them make their own informed decision (and disclaim myself from doing their tech support).;
Any idea what the temps are inside that thing?
We were all having a discussion of the merits and pitfalls of the iMac quite peacefully indeed before you showed up. You're a prime example of why many people won't buy a Mac, one slight bit of critisism and you attack in force.
<sarcasm>I loved the way I was said to be "offensive". Wow.</sarcasm>
Definition of Tech Support: Sadomasochism for the not-so-brave.
Wanna know how they fit all that Apple goodness, inside the space HALF the depth of your average 5 year old TFT?. Common sense, and excellent design techniques, based upon generations of building Macs and iPods. Quite simple really. There is only ONE reason this astounds people, and it goes without saying really...
...so I will refrain from the satisfaction of saying it. If you look at the "average" PC, and all the completely wasted space inside the ATX case, which could be removed, then there is half the clue of how it is achieved. The majority of space inside a PC is a waste. The cooling techniques are outdated, and the components are oversized. Simple.
No, they did not.
The flaming ends here. Next one gets a week's suspension. This conversation is over.
Cool!. :P
On the cooling front, I hope that Apple learnt from the early batch of MBP's and Macbooks about how to cool the new intel chips. My iMac is pretty good with its temps, the fans seem to be on silent 90% of the time. One thing a lot of people seemed to notice is that you should never get a first-gen mac if you can help it! lol :D
Saying that, my Macbook was a first gen and it's been fine.
Laptops have sacrificed such issues for compact and efficient design, and so have Apple Macs. But both can do that because they are aimed at a different user, who values certain ergonomics and all-in-one efficient design over configuration flexibility and upgradability.
Horses for courses, dude. Horses for courses.
* How did PCI-E replace (almost) AGP - not by chance, CHANGE was needed, so implemented.
* How did SATA and it's derivatives come about?. IDE and SCSI was getting too slow and old, and new transfer technology was designed.
* How do processor sockets arrive at their final design?. Necessity, and from this need, standards are formed by Intel and AMD etc.
The market leaders and innovators have choice, but they choose to stick, mainly, to the ancient standard MINI/MIDI/MAXI/SERVER ATX tower form factors. Just because these exist, doesn't mean that MUCH smaller and more efficient, yet EQUALLY as upgradable alternatives cannot be designed. It is just a fear of change, and, in a way, a laziness that says "if it is good enough, why improve it - we are selling millions, so why re-design them".
You can put whatever fancy decals or paintjobs you wish on a PC, but at the end of the day, all this is just lipstick on a pig. I am not insulting people's individual designs - hey, what exactly can the user do about the fact that the form factor is a space hog, and a wasteful one at that. There is only SO much you can do to ATX cases, but the silhouette still looks the same. Shuttle type cases were a start, but not really a revolution in design; all they do, is take the existing MOBO and coolers, and cram them tighter into a smaller space.
Why don't the people that control ATX form factors, invent a new and slimmer, more efficient profile. You tell ME!. This is why the greater percentage of PCs look basically alike; boring oversized tin boxes, desperately trying to differentiate themselves from one another, by depending on paint and neons alone, coupled with windowed side panels, which say:
"Look dude... look how much WASTED SPACE I have inside my glowing PC. I have so much air in there, that I decided to fill the void with flashing dooberies and glowing stuff"
This is the fault of the standard setters, not really the fault of the home modder or user. The ATX and variations are generally butt ugly, oversized behemoths, which are crying out for a long overdue rethink. This is overdue by many years. If just ONE major manufacturer comes up with an idea, and sets the standard, then WHO KNOWS what beautiful ideas could follow on from this?! :D
Slot loading DVD drives are only more expensive because less of them are made. If a new form factor dictates the MAJORITY of PCs use this drive, then the price will PLUMMET!!. Same goes for heatpipe assembleys and SODIMM ram. Bulk quantities by the billion, dictate massive price drops accordingly. The top-level boffs are lazy, and can't think - pardon the pun - "out of the box", so to speak.
Another idea is that different companies EACH make their own design of case, based upon a slimmer quieter base specification, but they ALL have a list of component and expansion card measurements and specs, which MUST fit inside ther creations, no matter which generic company made the card etc.
It could be a contest - whichever design proves most popular, will sell the most and hence will be the new, slimmer and more aesthetically appealling standard PC. Modular design is key, as always, but who SAYS that PC must be ugly forever?.
I rest my case - it CAN and could be done, but the complacency of corporate giants means, that for the meantime, Apple's designs are many eons ahead of the pack, sorry to say.
[FINAL NOTE]
This is not a criticism of ANY ONE of you, or a collective generalisation of PC users or owners. There is so much potential for PC design, but it is simply stuck in the dark ages, and seems unwilling to change too much. HP and SONY may have their own, PROPRIETORY (and often disfigured) take on the form factor, but at least their designs are TRYING to change the way we envisage computers to look, and not just sitting back and letting history dictate the future.
Innovation is the key - that is why you hear "OOOH" and "WOWWW" when they see a new Apple Mac. Not because we want appear superior (I speak SOLELY for myself - I am a decent chap) but because the designs are beautiful and different. You'd not drool over an ugly girlfriend, so why would you pretend that ATX is anything BUT dated and stale.
Thanks for taking the time to read my post/rant/call it whatever makes you happy.
I am proud to be a Mac user, and it is time PC users were allowed to experience TRUE "Wow factor", not just a new paintjob on an old clunky space-heater.
Finally - to refer to your point that Macs use custom components; only the chassis and the shell. The Processor/ram/HDD/DVD-RW/TFT/GFX/chipsets etc are ALL, off the shelf parts!. Custom keyboard and mouse, PSU, logic board and other PCBS are probably the ONLY unique parts. If Apple made EVERYTHING inside proprietory, then a Mac would cost about 10 times the price that they cost now, and they are very competitive indeed.
Can you do that in a laptop ? can you do that in this iMac, or any other integrated things - no you cant
But such is the price you pay, if you want a little dinky 1 box solution on your desk, fine, but be willing to pay for it
If you want a really compact PC, go get a cube or whatever (those shuttle things) - if you want something you can mess around with, and change everything with - get a Midi, or even a full tower case
There are plenty of choices, but "compact" and "integrated" come at a price
These are all choices for everyone, there is a solution for every need out there
Whats the saying - "necessity is the mother of invention"
My post covered all of this, so maybe read it again?. Think about *WHY* they come at a price; I covered that completely!. Horses for courses indeed, but re-design is needed. You are thinking as I would expect you to think, which I blame on the trend setters in PC land.
One of my points, is that compact AND affordable, could easily be uttered in the same sentence one day, coupled with "variety" and "choice". We shall see. If relatively gigantic expansion cards, can have functionally IDENTICAL laptop equivalents, then what is stopping the "standard" form factor from being abandoned, and the miniature versions becoming the new "standard size"?!. Makes NO SENSE AT ALL. This would shrink PCs in half, overnight!.
Think of all the variety and choice in the world, and think of the billions of stars and galaxies that we have yet to explore, and all the many possibilities of new technologies we may learn of. With all the technology and the widely varying and constantly changing innovations we see around us everyday, and the complex things we do everyday, without thinking, it is plainly a MAJOR handicap, that such a logical and much needed revolution in design, has yet to be started, PROPERLY.
If something as relatively mundane as revamping a PC form factor cannot be achieved, bearing in mind that this *IS* a relative no-brainer, when compared against really complex technology, and is no more than compressing and shrinking the standard parts, then this is really quite pathetic. Does noone else see where I am coming from, or am I the ONLY one to realise that such a basic task is plainly being avoided, through sheer laziness and lack of forward thinking.
Shame on us - if advanced races from other worlds exist, and ever visited us, we could yet experience what is feels like to feel technologically backward, and utterly embarrassed by our lack of imagination and primitive thinking patterns.
Thanks for your courteous reply. :)
Take a PC manufacturer in much the same position as Apple: Dell. Being a very large manufacturer, it can actually commission its own motherboards and other components, allowing it to make small, space efficient and quiet PCs (although it aims at the cost-conscious business market, so the build quality is not going to be quite as good as that of an Apple Mac to keep prices down --although the gap is closing slowly). The flipside of this design flexibility is that everyone always moans about how hard it is to upgrade Dells, because Dell tends to do things just that bit differently...
When Apple designs in some component upgradability, like in the G3/4/5 tower series, you notice that it ends up with what looks suspicially like a regular (sic) ATX midi-tower --just a really nicely built, aesthetically pleasing one, because it aims at a market that is prepared to pay a premium for that quality. But internally, the G5 basically looks just like a Dell but with a nicer finish.
I think you are anthropomorphising all this a bit too much. It is not about "fear of change", or complacency --it is about aiming new products at the widest target audience, which includes people with old legacy boxes looking for an upgrade as much as those building a system completely from scratch.
It's all compromise: what you are prepared to sacrifice for certain functionality. If you want a compact and elegant all-in-one box, iMacs are the way to go, but you're stuck with what you bought. If you want maximum configurability and upgradability, PCs are the way to go but you're stuck with design constraints.
There are some ports of laptop standards coming across to the PC, such as the MXM type II socket for GPUs, but:
1. all the manufacturers have to agree on the same standard;
2. It cannot be significantly more expensive;
3. it has to be BACKWARDLY COMPATIBLE!
Apple has none of these worries. It does not have to agree with other manufacturers, it has a target market willing to pay more for a specific product, and it doesn't do backward compatibility.
Let's take a really small standard revamp you mentioned earlier: AGP. I suspect you are younger than me and weren't really into computers when AGP came along (I could be wrong). The concept was simple: some new circuits, a new slot not that different from an ISA slot. No radical redesign of existing cases or components. Should have been easy to implement, no?
Except that it wasn't. On many motherboards, the AGP slot did not quite line up with the back of the case (on many very recent AGP mobos, it still does not. Go check it out), causing GPU cards to pop out every time you moved the case. Turns out that getting everybody to adhere exactly to even a quite simple dimensional standard was not that easy after all... Now if this happened to Apple (and I'm sure it has in one way or other), it is an in-house problem that can be solved in one afternoon by just a few memos between engineers. In PC world, with hundreds of different manufacturers making different bits and bobs, it took years.
Apple themselves seem to prove that you can't have a powerful, upgradeable machine in a form factor like the iMac. The Mac Pro is nearly functionally identical to any PC, allowing for the addition of as much new RAM as you need, new graphics cards, RAID cards, and hard-drives.
Nintendo made a slot loader that takes 8cm discs, why can't Pioneer? Sorry, it's a pet gripe of mine :)
When the PCI-E spec was published the graphics industry and motherboard industry moved over quite quickly indeed, same with SATA as you've mentioned. This was because there was a need to do this, the old specs were outdated and something newer was needed to push forward change.
This is not the case with ATX (I'm sure there's a pun in there somewhere).
Many of us are quite content with our cases, I know i brought a large one just so I can fit stuff in it, and I'm sure many others do the same. The smaller your form factor goes the bigger the limit on power and extensionally.
This is a very short sighted way of looking at the bigger picture, and probably the very reason that the current "tin box PC" situation exists. People have to tear themselves away from their old devices SOMETIME, and upgrade to the new generation of card and peripheral connection technology. So if your point is valid, then why have a vast portion of PC mfrs, REMOVED 9 pin serial ports, but not overnight; they PHASED them out gradually.
It is like this: completely re-design the way PCs fit together, and make ANY previous *internal* slot-together standards, obsolete. The external connections such as FireWire/USB etc etc, are left in place, but the internals are new. I see evidence from all your replies, that people don't like change and fight against what they don't know, because it scares them, but the world is NEVER going to move forward this way - NEVER.
The motherboard is a good starting point; overhaul the motherboard design dramatically, to save space, but allow present and last generation cards to fit into it. Once it has been around for a year or so, stop manufacturing of the PCI/AGP/whatever format cards, and bring out new, more compact designs, and at the same time revise the MOBO to reflect this, and replace older PCI slots with newer, mini slots as used in laptops etc. This is called evolution, and is the reason why we aren't all still travelling by horse and cart. People will fight it, but not EVERYONE; the people who can see the way the future should be, will be the ones who shall bring this change about, and to be honest there is not a lot that can be done about it.
Once the new generation has replaced the old generation, there will be no further obsolescence required, as most people will have migrated over, and have the new "standard form factor".
You see, if someone SOMEWHERE designed the older clunky standards, then it is equally as logical for some other group, to show the way forward. Don't be blind people - this *WILL* happen, sooner or later, no question about that.
I am not so naive as to think that it is a matter of pleasing people, judging by their reactions. It is a matter of it NEEDING to be done, and it will go ahead, regardless of short term complaints and reactions. Tear yourselves away from the archane and outdated - THIS is the reason that so many Mac users laugh at PCs - clunky and outdated design. *DON'T* confuse this comment, with the argument that inevitably ensues; "But you can't upgrade Macs blah blah..." yes, we know, THAT was not the point; the point being made here is elegance, beginning with the migration away from the ugly tin box phenomenon; THIS was the parallel I was trying to make clear - ELEGANCE OF DESIGN, not the fact that it is a Mac, particularly!. I am trying to help you to see the future here. Please excuse my own ignorance also; I am only human, too.
Respect to you all.
Thankyou.
Add to that the fact that standards like PCI-E and SATA make relatively little impact on overall form factors. Basically, all you do is change the shape of some slots and plugs. With SATA, you can even have cross-over HDDs with both a SATA and conventional IDE connectors.
BTX now, is a whole different layout. It requires a whole different case and heatsink, not to mention that conventional double-height graphic card heatsinks can now of a sudden find themselves on the wrong side... Not a problem for the likes of Dell who sell PCs as a complete unit, and you will indeed find BTX motherboards in plenty of their units. But BTX sacrifices a chunk of backward compatibility for little substantial gain in performance or design.
No. What needs to be done is design an ATX motherboard with MXM Type 2 slots, but at the same time make MXM cards available that are functionally equivalent to, and for the same price as PCI-E units. Then re-design the mobo (freed up from its constraints by the new slots) for those who are willing/able to change to a new form factor case. But that will take at least 5 years.
...except Apple users, it seems. You may laugh at PCs for clunky and outdated design, but PC users laugh at Macs for their almost built-in obsolescence --and at such prices, too!
Don't believe me? Think this is the ranting of a luddite? OK, where are all the iMac G3s (1998)? Where are the iMac G4s (2002)? But I can point you to plenty of PCs that were built in 1998 or 2002 and are still in active service today, running the latest CPUs and GPUs on the latest mobos. Not bad, for a machine that may have cost half the price. Outdated? Cutting-edge technology runs deeper than a pretty skin, dude.
You think that you are a prophet shouting at the misguided masses? Dude, I was messing with a ZX81 when you were probably still in diapers. I modded my C64. The "AppleDesign: the work of the Apple Industrial Design Group" lies permanently on my coffee table (great book --if you don't have it, buy it --it'll teach you a bit about the realities of product design). You mentioned Jonathan Ive? I can tell you a bit about Harmut Esslinger. Apple makes great innovative products, which has undeniably had benefits for the PC world (OSX spurred on the development of a decent-looking Windows GUI; the Apple G5 tower inspired the much-loved Lian-Li 1000 series cases) but it can only do so because it is one company catering to a select audience. There is a reason why PCs are the workhorses in the computing world. That Porsche may be a beautiful piece of engineering, but for real life that not-so-glamourous Volvo estate is more practical and costs less to run.
I knew I was wasting my time in here, from the outset. Trying to explain the difference between "the bottom line" and style, to a majority of PC tinkerers is, yes, a waste of time, for whatever reason. The reason Apple succeed, is the differentiation between monetary value, and changing the way people think. Maybe they don't have market share, but it is NOT all about money, as much as you have been told otherwise.
Apple users have one thing that you can never possibly have experienced; the feeling of excitement, when you *KNOW* Steve Jobs is going to announce a new product or suite of software, but you can't quite put ya finger upon what it is. Knowing that the machine you dream of owning, has been given a speed bump, a design makeover, but also... A MASSIVE PRICE CUT AT THE SAME TIME. There is nothing that can match that feeling of excitement, and "knowing" you made the right decision.
Do you get excited when Dell bring out a new case design?. Do you long to own that disfigured new HP Pavilion, that has more silver than a roll of tin foil?. Spray painted plastic, PRETENDING to be metal... :). Nothing is comparable, and until you feel that excitement for the best computer company in existance, you are missing out badly.
I tinker about with PCs when I wanna learn how things work, but when I want to get down to some serious fun/work/creativity, I use my Macintosh. Bye guys.
[PS] I am 32 - assumption is a dangerous thing.
A computer is a machine, not a religious experience. I appreciate a well-built, elegantly designed object like anyone else (I have an iPod Nano 2, for instance), but I don't worship it.
Just because we prefer PCs and Wintel machines does not mean we bow down to megacorporations. Many of the mods here are absolutely amazing, WMD here comes to mind. I doubt you'd find the sort of engineering that went into that inside a Mac.
BYE! :D
{PS} The Mac "community" which you PC users say doesn't exist (?), is different to the PC drones for a reason... but you'd never understand that, so hey - enjoy.
Bye bye dudes.
It's been fun, whitehotmac. Never has anyone lived up to their stereotype as well as you have. :D
That's just brand loyalty, something which most PC users don't bother with much because we're fortunate enough to have choice in what we spend our money on. Apple relies very heavily on that blind loyalty - without it, they'd blend into the background along with all the other brands. You're their perfect customer - defensive, loyal, and evidently quite misguided.
Do I get excited? Not really. Do Dell and HP make a big deal of it? Not really. I was quite impressed to see Dell's new Inspiron notebooks and desktops, but I didn't give it huge amounts of attention because Dell didn't bother to try and get any. And quite honestly, I'll settle for plastic when it means the machines are as cheap as they are.
It's ironic that all those WORDS in capital LETTERS make your posts look like an article from The News Of The World.
Edit: Glad that's all over.
Challenge the view and you're an ignorant moron.
Cheers guys :D
snap
No, "Steve Jobs". :D
Jeez, why does this forum always get the crazies...
We're just lucky, I guess. :) It's people like this who make things interesting! Otherwise we'd just have boring, mostly rational discussions consisting of those stupid things called facts. It's hard to generate a whole lot of fun emotion behind fact...so why bother with them?
It's a shame you're not around anymore whitehotmac... rock on with your flaming fanboy self, dude. Rock on.
Anyway: just for those who think that PC manufacturers can't come up with original designs.
And as i said, if you get a shuttle PC, firstly they are very compact, and secondly they are very upgradable like a PC is, however they only fit like 1-2 HDD's and 1 maybe 2 DVD drive(s)
Hell you can even fit an entire watercooling system into a shuttle sized PC, there are plenty of choices around
Also, laptops aren't the same "power" as PC's, they use underclocked components so they run cooler (and draw less power) which allows them to survive with much smaller heatsinks, but have you tried overclocking a laptop ? it wont come close to what you can achieve in a proper PC
But this does increase the price a lot
Anyway if i go on anymore ill just end up rambling, so enjoy, there is a solution for everyone, and macs are another one of the available solutions
On more serious matters, I think it's pretty bad that Apple have marred their chances of being able to cite the mac as a machine with decent graphics clout - by siding with ATI they've decided to go with card technology, that is lets face it, coming up to 3 generations old. X1600 performance on my 20" iMac is barely better than the X300 that my dell had (and yes, I know the chip in the iMac is a mobility card and is underclocked - overclocking makes little difference). Judging by the benchmarks, the X2600 isn't much better, if not worse than the X1600. The dell, with a 7300GT, blew the X1600 out of the water. Pretty sad, IMO.
ATI should just pull out of the GFX market whilst they still have dignity
Besides, I wanted to floor him with the greatest single PC vs Mac point ever, which in many respects sums up the entire ethos of the two machines:
Macs had Myst.
PCs had Doom.
'nuff said. :D
Wait, we're NOT like the freemasons? So why the hell was i spanked for 5 hours before i joined?
But Doom was better. :D
Amen to that! :p
2.4 intel Quad core
ASUS P5N32 e SLI
SLI 8800 GTS
etc etc
However even with a nice pc like mine I wouldnt dream of using it in the studio, it crashes when it doesnt like the game its playing. It gets viruses so you have to have an ever annoying virus scanner that even more frustratingly you have to pay for. Firewire on a windows based computer seems to be as usefull as a frying pan made of butter and just about every program even crysis itself needs an update which just means im still sat on my chair waiting even after the installations are complete. Granted there are updates for the mac too, but they are far and few and make minimal difference! So a good conclusion is surely a tweak to an already fantastic program! And it boils down to this guys buy a pc if you want to play games but brace yaself cuz windows WILL piss you off. If you need a computer to do pretty much anything else buy a mac and love its simplicity, reliability and stop looking at the specs because apple are a team of profesionals that know more about computers than any of us and for them to sell these computers means they must invest millions. Only a fool would invest millions into a machine that has the potential to fail!
you got to hand it to Apple, they know how to make the bling and the buzz.
the week before last week, i had to wait that week for my iPhone 2G, because the seller (kempez, great seller, totally recommend) hasn't received his iPhone 3G. and every day, i think about all the wonderful things about it, the remote, the internet anywhere, the google maps....... this is what makes Apple so successful: their marketing, their ability to wow people, their stylish designs.
but once i got it, played with it a bit, found out it's not all that amazing: remote drains your battery life, typing isn't so great, internet costs a LOT, google maps is totally useless unless you are on wifi. and don't get me started on the guess work of application supports horizontal viewing.
(don't get me wrong, it's a great phone, but the software is just not what Apple made out to be)
so, all Apple relays on is marketing, nothing else. i have 2 friends who will only buy Apple products:
1. loves his MBP, but it's way more expensive, slow comparing to another friend's IBM Thinkpad.
2. buys Apple products to play his Unix server and Linux. because of the good driver support, and only because of the bling. he even said it: Mac OSX users are not computer experts.
the iPhone's cracking software and its forum is a great example, the pwnage tool on Mac is simplified such that a plank of wood can understand it, while the WinPwn software is complex and treats you like a man. yet, the Mac section gets more complain about errors while WinPwn forums seems like users just lives with the errors and solves them themselves.
so, Apple makes great products until you get it in your hands, that's when it feels disappointed, the bling/wow will soon worn off. and you'd be stuck with a demo for all your friends while it's just an overpriced product.
what i got out of this Apple product (my iPhone) experience: for a PC, just build one yourself, you'd save a lot of cash while getting a more powerful, less bling machine. for phone, if you love to show off, iPhone is great, otherwise it's just like other phones, only buy 2nd hand, as they are not worth their full price.
sorry about this rent, but do read it, especially if you are a wannabe Mac fan