The California game law will be back, according to The Termin - uh, I mean - Governer Schwarzenegger

The California game law will be back, according to The Termin - uh, I mean - Governer Schwarzenegger

It’ll be back – that’s the promise Arnie ‘Governator’ Schwarzenegger made yesterday when he announced that he plans to appeal the court’s decision to throw out the California games law.

The law, which has long been championed by The Terminator himself, would put yet more barriers between game development and their retail destination. Any game deemed ‘violent’ would have an adults only label and retailers would be fined $1000 for every game they sold to minors – this rating would be separate from the industry regulated ESRB system however.

While the law itself is perfectly reasonable, the idea of ‘game violence’ is very ill-defined and it’s possible that even the turtle-stomping antics of everybody’s favourite plumber brothers could be labelled as adult. The law would also see a majority of games regulated and seen in a similar manner to pornographic material, limiting the sale and availability for such games.

One needs only look at Manhunt 2 to see what an AO rating can do for a game.

It’s also seen as more than a little hypocritical that Arnie, star of films like The Terminator and Conan the Barbarian, is the figurehead for this law. That’s without even mentioning the awful Kindergarten Cop which is, frankly, the worst film ever made.

But maybe I’m only saying that because I expected the film to be more of a toddler slaughter-fest than it really was.

“I signed this important measure to ensure that parents are involved in determining which video games are appropriate for their children. The bill I signed would require that violent video games be clearly labelled and not be sold to children under 18 years old. Many of these games are made for adults and choosing games that are appropriate for kids should be a decision made by their parents. I will vigorously defend this law and appeal it to the next level,” said The Governator in a press release.

Should games be regulated by the government, or is purely a matter for parents? Let the debate rage on in the forums.
Quote Hells_Bliss 8th August 2007, 14:28
wellll honestly, a 13 year-old doesn't need to be playing man-hunt, doom 3, or some other incredibly gory, realistic games. If they can't get into movies at that age, why should they be able to play something that is so much more interactive.

Of course, there shouldn't need to be laws for this, parents should be censoring what their children watch/play
Quote Mister_X 8th August 2007, 14:30
I certainly think games should be regulated and properly so, The media is very quick to blame violent games for all the ills of society. Parents of kids need to take responsibility for what their hellspawn er I mean children play and do in their formative years.
One rating system to rule them all. legally and sensibly enforced.
Quote christoefar 8th August 2007, 14:52
c**p, games are already given a rating, whats the point??
Quote Hells_Bliss 8th August 2007, 15:05
the ESRB rating is an voluntary industry rating system, it's not required by the game makers to give their game a rating. This rating that Arnie wants to put in is a legal rating system with penalties
Quote DougEdey 8th August 2007, 15:49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hells_Bliss
the ESRB rating is an voluntary industry rating system, it's not required by the game makers to give their game a rating. This rating that Arnie wants to put in is a legal rating system with penalties

Which is what the UK has with the BBFC.

Oh, and it's what Jack Thompson has been campaigning for.
Quote riggs 8th August 2007, 15:50
Just out of interest, what's the penalty for selling ciggies/booze to minors?

$1000 seems a bit steep...I mean come on, they're only games.
No doubt JT is loving the idea of this...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Article
That’s without even mentioning the awful Kindergarten Cop which is, frankly, the worst film ever made.
WHAT!? You're kidding right? Ok, so the 'story' is crap, but the one-liners are brilliant! :D
Quote ohcyt 8th August 2007, 16:41
I think it's not a bad idea. Some of these games are really filthy, and that's ok but most parents don't realize what their kids play. Yes it is their fault if their kids play games that are not suitable for them, but I think regulation like this is a good step towards better parental control, which many kids need tbh. It will ensure that parents look into the games their kids play, and the games that will get these ratings will be the ones they really should make a decision for.
I know I'll be really looking over my childrens shoulder (whenever I get them (A) ) to make sure they won't play Soldier of Fortune with full gore from age 13 like I did ;)
Quote quack 8th August 2007, 17:15
Quote:
Originally Posted by DougEdey
Which is what the UK has with the BBFC.

Oh, and it's what Jack Thompson has been campaigning for.
It's a shame that JT is such a jackass though. :D
Quote Tyinsar 8th August 2007, 17:15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Article
While the law itself is perfectly reasonable, the idea of ‘game violence’ is very ill-defined and it’s possible that even the turtle-stomping antics of everybody’s favourite plumber brothers could be labelled as adult. ...

It’s also seen as more than a little hypocritical that Arnie, star of films like The Terminator and Conan the Barbarian, is the figurehead for this law. ...
I agree fully with the first part. The problem, however, is any definitions will likely be abused (don't like blood, ok, we'll make a game exactly like manhunt 2 with all the sadism but no blood). Also, children are effected differently by cartoon violence than by that from or to realistic looking people - but where is that line of realism crossed? (earlier games with people look almost cartoonish by today's standards).

As for the hypocrisy charge that was my first thought too. I wonder how much of this comes form his own beliefs - though it is highly possible that his have changed from when he was younger. It is also possible that he may acknowledge his past work as violent and claim that it was intended only for an adult audience thus there would be no hypocrisy in his stance.
Quote DougEdey 8th August 2007, 17:17
Quote:
Originally Posted by quack
It's a shame that JT is such a jackass though. :D

True, but it's only because everyone else screams "You're persecuting the common man!"
Quote mikeuk2004 8th August 2007, 17:18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Article
That’s without even mentioning the awful Kindergarten Cop which is, frankly, the worst film ever made.

That film is great, full of comedy.
Quote Nexxo 8th August 2007, 17:40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyinsar
I agree fully with the first part. The problem, however, is any definitions will likely be abused (don't like blood, ok, we'll make a game exactly like manhunt 2 with all the sadism but no blood). Also, children are effected differently by cartoon violence than by that from or to realistic looking people - but where is that line of realism crossed? (earlier games with people look almost cartoonish by today's standards).
Very good point. Censorship usually runs into problems when censorship boards go into paranoia overdrive. It's the equivalent of someone going all Enforcer as soon as he joins Mall Security --the badge, uniform and maglite sort of go to his head.

As a result censorship boards see problems everywhere:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wired Culture: Even Cartoons Aren't Safe From Censors
It might seem surprising at a time when a Family Guy episode can include scenes like "Prom Night Dumpster Baby." But children's cartoons are a different story. As Craig Miller and a panel of other animated-show writers revealed at Comic-Con International last weekend, censors go out of their way -- and some might say out of their minds -- to protect little kids.

And it's not just the standards-and-practices departments that act as watchdogs.

"We get notes from studios, from networks, from educational consultants, from advertisers," Miller said. "One show I worked on, there was a list of 47 people who got shown every word a writer wrote -- the outlines, the first draft and second draft -- and had the opportunity to give their comments on what should be changed."

Miller, who couldn't recall the name of the show, sarcastically called it a "wonderful creative experience."

"What's entertaining is what points to human foibles and flaws, and (the censor's) job is to take that out of it," said animation writer Andrew Nichols, during a panel on censorship in animation. Nichols has written for titles including The Adventures of Jimmy Neutron: Boy Genius and Casper's Scare School. He said he was told just last week to not use the words "heck" or "darn."
And Censorship Boards also tend to exceed their remit:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wired Culture: Even Cartoons Aren't Safe From Censors
Other troublesome words for censors include "furnace," "vacation," "envy" and "remove" because they're supposedly too complicated for kids to understand, Nichols said.

Miller, meanwhile, once wrote the script for a show called Pocket Dragon Adventures and was told not to use the word "beseech" in a scene with a knight because it's somehow "blasphemous." Miller took it out.

While writers for adult animation shows often have more freedom, even they can run into trouble at times.

Censors would sometimes balk at certain Futurama scenes, recalled Patric Verrone, president of the Writers Guild of America, West and a writer on the show.

But the promotions department often had the last word. "Whenever we would fight with them to get it in, that would be what (promotions would) put in the ad," said Verrone.

It's not clear how networks decide what to omit in adult cartoons. It may be a matter of who complains the loudest.

The writers pointed to two episodes of The Simpsons which received many complaints. One featured a reference to Bart having Tourette syndrome which was excised after it aired, so the reference didn't appear in repeats or DVDs. The show also took out a mild reference to the Catholic Church.

"The point is they caved," Verrone said.

For now, the writers seem resigned to following the rules and the edicts of "creative executives," who "are generally not either," Miller said.
Interestingly, I see the same with Research Ethics boards --they often overstep their remit to comment on technical issues such as research method and statistics of which they have no real understanding... Actually understanding seems to be lacking on all levels: one colleague who wanted to develop a sex education programme for adults with learning disabilities (which helps protect them from becoming victims of sexual abuse and teaches them how to behave appropriately sexually) was told that he was not allowed to use the words "penis" or "vagina" but had to use euphemisms like "willy". Talk about infantilising... Needless to say he had to abandon the project.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyinsar
As for the hypocrisy charge that was my first thought too. I wonder how much of this comes form his own beliefs - though it is highly possible that his have changed from when he was younger. It is also possible that he may acknowledge his past work as violent and claim that it was intended only for an adult audience thus there would be no hypocrisy in his stance.
I think Arnie's relationship to his violent action hero work is a bit complex. If you watch Last Action Hero you'll know what I mean. But the message in that film went totally over the head of the audience, which proves once again that when you try to appeal to the common denominator, you can never aim low enough.
Quote Spaceraver 8th August 2007, 23:11
I need to use an acronym i seldom use.. WTF
Quote Tyinsar 8th August 2007, 23:42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexxo
... If you watch Last Action Hero you'll know what I mean. But the message in that film went totally over the head of the audience, which proves once again that when you try to appeal to the common denominator, you can never aim low enough.
I totally forgot about that one (something about blocking bad memories I think). I didn't see it in the theaters and have only seen parts of it on TV. Now you're almost making me want to watch it.
Quote HourBeforeDawn 9th August 2007, 08:32
I stand behind it 100%, in fact even when I use to work at GameCrazy I would stick to the rating system, lol there was one time a Mother came in saying I wouldnt sell her sun GTA San Andreas to her 12 year old son and she was u set, I told her it had severe language, sex, blood and gore, and other excessive violence and has a mature rating, she was like uh huh right, so she buys the game and then the next day comes into our store to chew me out about how bad this game is for kids, I flat out laughed my ass off and even my manager was there and was like NO **** thats what we tried telling you yesterday lol she was like well I will listen better next time, it was such a OMG you shouldnt breed kind of moments. =p
Quote Bungle 9th August 2007, 17:33
Quote:
Originally Posted by HourBeforeDawn
I stand behind it 100%, in fact even when I use to work at GameCrazy I would stick to the rating system, lol there was one time a Mother came in saying I wouldnt sell her sun GTA San Andreas to her 12 year old son and she was u set, I told her it had severe language, sex, blood and gore, and other excessive violence and has a mature rating, she was like uh huh right, so she buys the game and then the next day comes into our store to chew me out about how bad this game is for kids, I flat out laughed my ass off and even my manager was there and was like NO **** thats what we tried telling you yesterday lol she was like well I will listen better next time, it was such a OMG you shouldnt breed kind of moments. =p
I imagine that's all too common. The art of conversation seems to be lost to many. What's these things on the side of my head again..oh yes ears.:(
Quote Da Dego 9th August 2007, 18:19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexxo
Interestingly, I see the same with Research Ethics boards --they often overstep their remit to comment on technical issues such as research method and statistics of which they have no real understanding... Actually understanding seems to be lacking on all levels: one colleague who wanted to develop a sex education programme for adults with learning disabilities (which helps protect them from becoming victims of sexual abuse and teaches them how to behave appropriately sexually) was told that he was not allowed to use the words "penis" or "vagina" but had to use euphemisms like "willy". Talk about infantilising... Needless to say he had to abandon the project.

Hence the issue with "activist judges" - those who attempt to legislate from the bench by drawing their own definitions to terms used in moral issues. As Tynisar said, the definitions could be abused...that's why we need clear, codified definitions rather than the nebulous ones. We need to avoid the idea of "I can't define obscenity, but I know it when I see it." THAT can then make a system like this work.

The thing that drives me crazy about it - they can do that for dog breeds, so why not this? The whole Kennel Club idea is drawn upon the "written breed standard." If someone (like a show judge) bases a decision on that but deviates from an expected outcome, the reasoning is clearly laid out. Surely there can be clearer ideas in this definition than "a properly sharp snout."
Quote The_Beast 9th August 2007, 18:25
I think 1,000 is a bit much
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