bit-tech.net

German hacker blocked from entering US

German hacker blocked from entering US

Homeland Security says "Come back with a business visa."

German hacker Thomas Dullien has been barred from entering the United States on a personal visa to teach a two-day class at this year's Black Hat convention.

Dullien, who has held training sessions for the past six years at Black Hat, was denied entry when security screeners found the printed materials for his training session in his suitcase.

”For the next 4 1/2 hours I was interviewed about who exactly I am, why I am coming to the US, what the nature of my contract with Blackhat is, and why my trainings class is not performed by an American citizien.” Dullien has said about the events that transpired on his personal blog.

Dullien initially was contracted personally by Black Hat, but will soon change the terms to be between Black Hat and Dullien's company Sabre Labs GmbH. This latest debacle has left Dullien with a new rule - he can no longer teach the sessions while in the country on his personal visa. It will be possible for him to teach future training sessions with a business visa, but this year is out of the question since it could be weeks before he can obtain one.

With several foreign security experts scheduled to attend, it appears that only Dullien has been affected by the tightened security of today's air travelers.

Is this a shining example of airport security going too far or should Dullien have gotten his training materials printed after his arrival? Or should he have just applied for a business visa to start with, since he was being paid? Let us know your thoughts over in the forums or in the comment section.

15 Comments

Discuss in the forums Reply
quack 31st July 2007, 15:01 Quote
Quote:
he can no longer teach the sessions while in the country on his personal visa
He will have to apply for a visa at the US Embassy back in Germany before he attempts to return to the US, every single time. Unfortunately, since he's been rejected under the Visa Waiver scheme once, he will never be able to use it again. Which sucks for him.
cpemma 31st July 2007, 15:39 Quote
It's easy to scream "Paranoia!" but it seems he's come over with a holiday visa and admitted he's come to do a paid job of work.
Quote:
That fact that Black Hat, a U.S. company, would pay Dullien directly apparently violated the visa waiver he'd signed.
Stupid boy. Nil points for intelligence.
Hells_Bliss 31st July 2007, 15:48 Quote
yeah, if he'd just filled out his H-1B visa form in advance, he should have had no problem. It's not like the Blackhat convention was a spur of the moment event :)
proxess 31st July 2007, 15:53 Quote
Wouldn't it just have been easier to cross over the Mexican border?
evilgreenie 31st July 2007, 16:56 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpemma
It's easy to scream "Paranoia!" but it seems he's come over with a holiday visa and admitted he's come to do a paid job of work.

Stupid boy. Nil points for intelligence.

Its not as straight-forward as that - you *can* travel to the US for business on the visa-waiver scheme. I've done it frequently for the last 8 years. There's an option on the waiver forms to indicate you're travelling on business...

edit: he was stopped by customs, not immigration, specifically for carrying course material. Stupid boy - should've DHL'ed them..
DLoney 31st July 2007, 20:00 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by proxess
Wouldn't it just have been easier to cross over the Mexican border?
haha. I was about to say the same thing. lol its only costs $10 for the trip if you hire a "guide".
bilbothebaggins 31st July 2007, 20:07 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by evilgreenie
Its not as straight-forward as that - you *can* travel to the US for business on the visa-waiver scheme. I've done it frequently for the last 8 years. There's an option on the waiver forms to indicate you're travelling on business...

edit: he was stopped by customs, not immigration, specifically for carrying course material. Stupid boy - should've DHL'ed them..
Wait ... you're allowed to enter the US with a "normal" visa on a business trips but customs won't allow you to carry a few printed out sheets ??
Who/What's stupid here?! :(
Amon 31st July 2007, 20:27 Quote
He should have said he came for ice cream.
Tulatin 31st July 2007, 22:59 Quote
Meh. Just have him teach it via webcam.
DXR_13KE 1st August 2007, 01:17 Quote
this is kind of sucky....
ZERO <ibis> 1st August 2007, 01:55 Quote
He can still teach, he just needs to hop the next flight to Mexico first.

Also how did they know about this material, you mean to say that the gov can use an xray machine to see what my printed documents say in my carry on luggage?

So if I carry a picture of an Islamic person in my bag and they see it in the bag clearly I will be arrested then for questing.

I just do not understand how they figured all this stuff out with him simply telling them or with out them violating some sort of right that used to exist in this nation.
evilgreenie 1st August 2007, 09:47 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by bilbothebaggins
Wait ... you're allowed to enter the US with a "normal" visa on a business trips but customs won't allow you to carry a few printed out sheets ??
Who/What's stupid here?! :(

There's a separate US customs form to fill in with a question asking if you are bringing "commercial material" into the country. This covers everything from promotional brochures to course material. The reason for this is they may have a value and therefore be liable for customs duties. If the guy was honest & ticked this box, and was obviously carrying an extra suitcase, then he would have been pulled over & questioned. Then again he could've just been caught in a random search. In my experience when commercial material is found, it's confiscated until they can work out a value & therefore how much duty is to be paid.

The fact they then rechecked his immigration status and found a technicality does raise the possibility they didn't like the look of the material and decided to play hard-ball..
The_Beast 1st August 2007, 18:24 Quote
that would really suck, traveling X amount of hours only to turn around and go back
cpemma 1st August 2007, 21:05 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by bilbothebaggins
Wait ... you're allowed to enter the US with a "normal" visa on a business trips...
It depends who's paying you. If it's the company you work for back home, it's not a problem. In this case he had a contract with an American firm.

An American coming to the UK (or Dullien's home country, Germany) to lecture for a fee would need a Work Permit. Works both ways. He hadn't read the manual.

Maybe this will help
Quote:
How long will it take to get an employee on site with an Austrian work permit?

The supporting documentation needed is quite extensive and can take some time to collect, it must be submitted in German, so translations should be taken into both time and financial budgets. Once the application has been lodged, processing usually takes about 7 weeks.

When the work permit is approved the candidate must apply for a residence visa to travel to Austria and start work.

Can my company obtain Austrian work permits?

There are two possible ways for the candidate to be employed with a work permit:

1. As the direct employee of an Austrian company, this is a Sicherungsbescheinigung (Secured work certificate) application.
2. As the employee of a foreign company that is providing services to an Austrian company. This foreign company may not be a recruitment agency and must produce a service contract as part of the application. In this scenario, an Austrian accountant must administer the payrolling of the candidate to ensure that all tax and social security is duly paid. This is an Entsendebewilligung (Assignment permit) application.

Does the candidate qualify for an Austrian work permit?

The candidate must be shown to have sufficient experience to fill the position.

If the application is for an assignment permit then the candidate should have at least 6-12 months experience with the service provider, to justify the claim that they have experience with the company's systems.
Faulk_Wulf 2nd August 2007, 18:42 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZERO <ibis>
He can still teach, he just needs to hop the next flight to Mexico first.

Also how did they know about this material, you mean to say that the gov can use an xray machine to see what my printed documents say in my carry on luggage?

So if I carry a picture of an Islamic person in my bag and they see it in the bag clearly I will be arrested then for questing.

I just do not understand how they figured all this stuff out with him simply telling them or with out them violating some sort of right that used to exist in this nation.

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not. So I'll answer this as if it were sincere: The airport now (and for some time after 9/11) maintained the right to do "random" baggage searches on individuals. It can be for any reason, or no reason at all. This is why you can't have padlocks on your luggage anymore on the US-side. They break them off to get into your bag. >.> It is why all my electronics come on my ONE (only amount allowed now :S) carry-on bag. (Just don't try bringing milk aboard, it might be considered a liquid explosive. >.> )

So at anyrate, they search through your stuff if they feel like it, and then if they find something they don't like, you get detained, questioned, and possibly get your stuff messed with or busted up. And that's flying States-side, or from the US-out. Its probably even worse coming from the US-in. Especially if you're not a citizen.

Rights? What rights. Its the United States of America, what did you expect to find? :(
( ::mutters:: stupid police state of upper middle class pompous bureaucrats ::mutters:: )

---

As far as the Visa issue, I know nothing about them. The only Visa I mess with is my Debit Card. :)
Though teaching it via Webcam would probably work like Tulatin suggested.
Log in

You are not logged in, please login with your forum account below. If you don't already have an account please register to start contributing.



Discuss in the forums