bit-tech.net

Vista SP1 in 2nd half 2007

Vista SP1 in 2nd half 2007

The view could be getting a little clearer - Vista's Service Pack 1 is due out by the end of the year.

Much like Vista itself, the state of the operating system's first service pack has been a little murky. First, it was promised in late 2007. Then, it looked like we may not see it until 2008. Now, it seems we've settled back on 2007, according to a leaked email to its testers.

Many have been looking forward to the upcoming release, hoping that it could fix some of the numerous little niggles in Microsoft's latest flagship product. Vista is far from broken as a release (in fact, it's probably way more stable than XP was at the time), but there have been numerous 'quirks.'

Vista Service Pack 1 was originally supposed to be out right around the same time as Longhorn Server, but Microsoft then put a pin in that balloon. The company changed its stance to not knowing when it would issue a service pack, saying it had "no timetable." That may actually be pretty believable, since the SP3 for Windows XP isn't even due out until 2008.

Of course, the newest emails put everything back on track and looking at a second half of 2007 release date, probably back to around Longhorn. Microsoft has yet to publicly release the information, however, for whatever reason. It is unknown why the date has been so closely guarded - we can only assume there were some problems with being sure some part would be completed on time.

Do you have a thought on the Vista SP1 secrets? Why is Microsoft not coming out and announcing the release? Tell us your ideas in our forums.

40 Comments

Discuss in the forums Reply
Veles 10th July 2007, 19:39 Quote
Any ideas on what features they're implementing with SP1? Or is that top secret too?
DXR_13KE 10th July 2007, 20:03 Quote
how i hate MS for this secret mumbo jumbo.... i pay for their software so i demand that they tell me when they will fix it.
Veles 10th July 2007, 20:05 Quote
If you're gonna blame anyone it should really be the hardware and software developers, their support for Vista has been awful, and the majority of Vista problems stem from there. As it says in the article, Vista is actually very stable, it's just got awful driver support.
Amon 10th July 2007, 20:08 Quote
10 bucks says Megasoft flip-flops again in a week.
zoom314 10th July 2007, 20:29 Quote
Question is will DVDs made under Vista sp1 be compatible with other MS OSes?
capnPedro 10th July 2007, 22:04 Quote
Bug fixes are always good. SP1 is a step in the right direction for people hesitant to switch.
Ramble 10th July 2007, 22:10 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Veles
Any ideas on what features they're implementing with SP1? Or is that top secret too?

I don't know much, but this service pack will be quite different from the last one. Apart from bug fixes (hurrah), they're also replacing the kernel we're curerntly using under Vista, with the one that's in Server 2008. That will be absolutely brillo.
proxess 10th July 2007, 22:13 Quote
the new privacy snooping code isn't ready yet.
SPQQKY 10th July 2007, 22:24 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Veles
If you're gonna blame anyone it should really be the hardware and software developers, their support for Vista has been awful, and the majority of Vista problems stem from there. As it says in the article, Vista is actually very stable, it's just got awful driver support.

Agreed, Creative only recently released an official driver for Vista, until about 4 weeks ago it was still beta. I mean come on folks, get out of the lazy chair.
ATi and nVidia drivers have been less than stellar, though I am pretty happy with the latest nVidia, still some minor bugs.
Tokukachi 10th July 2007, 23:21 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Veles
If you're gonna blame anyone it should really be the hardware and software developers, their support for Vista has been awful, and the majority of Vista problems stem from there. As it says in the article, Vista is actually very stable, it's just got awful driver support.

I think this has more to do with the fact driver for vista are a bitch to get working and Microsoft are not pulling there weight to help out.
steveo_mcg 10th July 2007, 23:33 Quote
Quote:
Why is Microsoft not coming out and announcing the release?

Because if folk think the sp is due they wont be spending money on the product till then. Coupled with IT depts are not going to go to the effort of rolling out Vista then rolling out SP1 a few weeks later, they won't say in case it damages sales however temporarily
Spaceraver 11th July 2007, 00:06 Quote
adding another slice of bloat to the fat system.. give me just as many options as to what i want and dont want in my os and ill buy it.. and a little tickbox that says no friggin Microsoft spyware allowed
Aankhen 11th July 2007, 01:47 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neat69
I think this has more to do with the fact driver for vista are a bitch to get working and Microsoft are not pulling there weight to help out.
Are you working on drivers for Vista?
[USRF]Obiwan 11th July 2007, 09:32 Quote
some bugs i encountered on vista:

When opening network neighboorhood. IT says that there are no shares found. You can refresh to the the end of time but no other shared pc's hds will be found. When you type in the computername in the searchbar (you where sure of that there are numerous folders shared) like \\pcdownstairs. It wil suddenly find all network shares. Close window, open network neighboorhood again and it wl say there are no shares at all.

When alt+tabbing from a game. Its almost impossible to get it back fullscreen again. Instead it floats on the desktop in a window in the resolution you have setup for the game (game: 1280x1024) desktop 1680x1050.

I wont say it is vista's fault. But i guess it probably is.
will. 11th July 2007, 11:02 Quote
As long as they fix the surround sound for programs other than ****ing media player. I was so pissed off when i realised that none of my games support surround sound in vista because they changed the way sound is handled.
Nikumba 11th July 2007, 11:58 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by will.
As long as they fix the surround sound for programs other than ****ing media player. I was so pissed off when i realised that none of my games support surround sound in vista because they changed the way sound is handled.

Well that would depend on what sound card your using tbh since Microsoft have nothing to do with when companies release drivers for Vista. IT was only recently that Realtek released full 64bit Vista drivers for my mobo.

But will be interesting to see what performace gains would come from the new Kernel though

Kimbie
ComputerKing 11th July 2007, 12:02 Quote
WTF.. SP1 ROFL I was think that is gona.. **** !
Delphium 11th July 2007, 12:49 Quote
Yer ill be pleased when soundmax release some better drivers for vista 64bit, as currently all my games and sound applications detect the sound card as a stereo / 2channel device :(, where as if I use the digtal out, for the likes of DVD's then i do get the full 7.1.

I was thinking about getting a SoundBlaster XFI Pro sound card, but am unsure if it will get detected as a 2channel device in games and audio applications like Traktor DJ or if it will get detected as a full multi channel sound device.

Anyone know if it does, or any other sound cards that do get detected as multi channel in vista 64bit? :?
capnPedro 11th July 2007, 14:53 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by [USRF]Obiwan
some bugs i encountered on vista:

When opening network neighboorhood. IT says that there are no shares found. You can refresh to the the end of time but no other shared pc's hds will be found. When you type in the computername in the searchbar (you where sure of that there are numerous folders shared) like \\pcdownstairs. It wil suddenly find all network shares. Close window, open network neighboorhood again and it wl say there are no shares at all.
This has happened to me before, I fixed it by checking my firewall settings and making sure the PCs were on the same workgroup. Now it works like a champ - even faster than XP at detecting PCs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by [USRF]Obiwan

When alt+tabbing from a game. Its almost impossible to get it back fullscreen again. Instead it floats on the desktop in a window in the resolution you have setup for the game (game: 1280x1024) desktop 1680x1050.
Happens to me with Halo 2 occasionally, but no other games do it. It's less Vista's fault as it is the game's.
Quote:
Originally Posted by will.
As long as they fix the surround sound for programs other than ****ing media player. I was so pissed off when i realised that none of my games support surround sound in vista because they changed the way sound is handled.
Go into control panel => Sound, right-click on Speakers and go to properties. Go to the Enhancements tab and put a tick next to "Speaker Fill". This pissed me off for like 4 hours until I discovered this.
cjmUK 11th July 2007, 15:16 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by [USRF]Obiwan

I wont say it is vista's fault. But i guess it probably is.

Almost certainlt isn't - more likely your gfx drivers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by will.
I was so pissed off when i realised that none of my games support surround sound in vista because they changed the way sound is handled.

You can't move forward by standing still - otherwise we'd all still be running Windows 3.11. They've changed the way some hardware interacts with the OS but if anything, it's supposed to make it better. But hardware manufacturers have been very slow to react, and ultimately it's more their fault than MS's - they have known about the changes for 18 mths.
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveo_mcg
Because if folk think the sp is due they wont be spending money on the product till then. Coupled with IT depts are not going to go to the effort of rolling out Vista then rolling out SP1 a few weeks later, they won't say in case it damages sales however temporarily

MS can't publish roll-out dates until they are certain. They've been notorious for running late, so rather than be more realistic at the outset, or perhaps improve their performance, they've adopted the tactic (as have many others) of simply not announcing launch dates until they are 100% certain that they will be met.

If they are saying H2 2007, they are thinking October but will probably end up releasing it in December.
Delphium 11th July 2007, 16:25 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by capnPedro

Go into control panel => Sound, right-click on Speakers and go to properties. Go to the Enhancements tab and put a tick next to "Speaker Fill". This pissed me off for like 4 hours until I discovered this.

Correct me if im wrong but does this not only upmix a stereo signal to surround sound, ie the rear speakers doing exactly the same as the front efectively 2x stereo? Of which fortunately for me, my speaker amp has the ability to do already.
Instead of true surround sound, where each speaker has a dynamic sound.

[Edit..
Ok so i read... Speaker fill will synthesize additional channels and direct them to the appropriate speakers, such as adding small delays or applying a filter]

Do miss the ability of being able to hear peoples foot steps coming up behind me in lot of FSP games, and the ability to use traktor DJ as it requires multiple channels.

This is of cause the drivers issue and not vista, though hopefully with the roll out of SP1 for vista, more people may jump onto vista and the manufactures will hopefully get there drivers sorted out :(
capnPedro 11th July 2007, 16:36 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Delphium
Correct me if im wrong but does this not only upmix a stereo signal to surround sound, ie the rear speakers doing exactly the same as the front efectively 2x stereo? Of which fortunately for me, my speaker amp has the ability to do already.
Instead of true surround sound, where each speaker has a dynamic sound.

Yes, it upmixes 2-channel sounds (i.e MP3s and other audio) so that all you left speakers play the left channel, all the right speakers play the right channel and your center speaker plays a mix of the two channels. However it leaves surround audio as it is, so it will not prevent you from hearing the footsteps behind you. Assuming that this actually works anyway.

It just acts as a fix for playing audio, which is not in a surround sound format (i.e. almost all of it, excluding DVDs etc).
Particle Man 12th July 2007, 07:09 Quote
I bought a laptop with vista on it.... worst idea ever, almost nothing runs on it. I'm about to put xp on the damn thing a be done with it.
will. 12th July 2007, 10:39 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjmUK
You can't move forward by standing still - otherwise we'd all still be running Windows 3.11. They've changed the way some hardware interacts with the OS but if anything, it's supposed to make it better. But hardware manufacturers have been very slow to react, and ultimately it's more their fault than MS's - they have known about the changes for 18 mths.

You can if your on a bus, or a train, or on a conveyor belt :p

Seriously though... I don't have anything serious to say...

Pickles...

Waffles...

cjmUK 12th July 2007, 11:22 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by will.
You can if your on a bus, or a train, or on a conveyor belt :p

Seriously though... I don't have anything serious to say...

Pickles...

Waffles...

Damn! I've no idea how to respond to that. You've got me cornered.
completemadness 12th July 2007, 23:48 Quote
however OS's before Vista actually brought something useful to the party

vista
aero interface thing - been on Linux forever and there is another program u can get for windows if you really want it, in all a waste of resources, plus it means your gfx card is doing 3d 24/7 so it consumes more power and the fan runs faster
UAC - not even worth me holding shift and pressing 3 other keys
DX10 - technically could have been brought to XP

in fact, screw the list, the only big changes Ive written above, and none of them are worth forking out £100 (or whatever M$ charges) to get
95 brought a much improved GUI, and the start menu
98 brought a better driver system, and networking was improved
ME - well even M$ would deny they made it (also not worth the money it costed) although they did improve the driver database alot
2000 - more an enterprise version, more secure and better networking, moving closer to the home version as well
XP - good networking support (finally) improved start menu, NTFS, and many more features
Vista - Another ME, hardly any benefits over XP

Infact, looking at my own list, it almost makes me wonder why we ever needed to move from 3.1, i mean hell all its been since then are marginal improvements
But in the general list of things, Vista is just like ME, it doesn't add much to the table over the previous version except an extra layer of bloat
Veles 13th July 2007, 00:05 Quote
I'm not up on all the features and improvements Vista has brought in, but from what I've heard they've brought in quite a lot of improvements and features, if you're saying Vista is like ME, then basically all the other windows since 95 have been like ME too.

People don't like ME because it didn't bring much to the table, people don't like it because it is utter crap.
cjmUK 13th July 2007, 00:14 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by completemadness

Infact, looking at my own list, it almost makes me wonder why we ever needed to move from 3.1, i mean hell all its been since then are marginal improvements

I'm calling your bluff - install Win3.11 and I'll take you seriously.

Remember: we had to go through ME to get to XP. Likewise, we have to go through Vista to get the next version. Each one is incrementally better than the last. But each of us sees different things of worth; you rated XP, I know a guy who has just jumped from Win2k to Vista (albeit with a new PC).
will. 13th July 2007, 01:27 Quote
I've just thought of another nice thing they could do to vista with SP1. Tabbed folders. ALA firefox and IE7 (and Linux i believe), but for folders...

why isn't firefox in firefox's spelling dictionary, but Microsoft is?

oops... that was a brain fart 'n' a half!
capnPedro 13th July 2007, 15:06 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by will.
why isn't firefox in firefox's spelling dictionary, but Microsoft is?
it wants to apply the proper capitalization.

If you're counting the start menu as a valid improvement, check Vista's new start menu. It's 100 times better than XP's.

And check the searching in Vista, it's absolutely ****in' A.
DXR_13KE 13th July 2007, 15:46 Quote
the searching in vista and the start menu are very nice... shame google wants MS to take out the searching capabilities.
Veles 13th July 2007, 15:49 Quote
What I'd like to see is the removal of the folder system and them bring in WinFS (and it be awesome) in SP1.
completemadness 13th July 2007, 16:13 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by capnPedro
If you're counting the start menu as a valid improvement, check Vista's new start menu. It's 100 times better than XP's.

And check the searching in Vista, it's absolutely ****in' A.
true enough, but at least on the start menu point, all they've done is added a search, I'm pretty sure that is an easy addon that could have been made to XP, other then that the start menus are still the same
capnPedro 13th July 2007, 16:17 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by completemadness
other then that the start menus are still the same

No more expanding menus. A scrollbar for scrolling through programs. A proper folder system that makes sense. recent Items actually works for me now.
cjmUK 13th July 2007, 16:51 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by completemadness
true enough, but at least on the start menu point, all they've done is added a search, I'm pretty sure that is an easy addon that could have been made to XP, other then that the start menus are still the same

They haven't just added a search function to the start menu. The Vista search functions searches more, searches faster and yet needs less muscle. It's completely different under the bonnet.

Yes you could probably add it to XP in a SP.

The will no doubt be other Vista features that you also like, We could add them in an SP too, perhaps.

But then your SP would become Frankenstein's monster, and XP would be slowly screwed. Isn't it better to clear the decks and start again?

Vista is just the latest in an evolutionary line. Some features are similar, but plenty are improved (and some regress perhaps?) - You are not going to like all of them, but on the whole they are a significant step forward.
Ramble 13th July 2007, 17:13 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by completemadness

Vista - Another ME, hardly any benefits over XP

Uh-huh, can you give me an example of hardly anything new? Massive sections of the OS have changed.
ME was awful because virtually nothing was changed and it was so buggy and unstable no-one wanted it. The idea of ME was pretty good though.
completemadness 15th July 2007, 03:50 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjmUK
They haven't just added a search function to the start menu. The Vista search functions searches more, searches faster and yet needs less muscle. It's completely different under the bonnet.
Yes you could probably add it to XP in a SP.

The will no doubt be other Vista features that you also like, We could add them in an SP too, perhaps.
Yes you could add them in a SP, whats the difference between a slipstreamed copy of XP, or a new disc of vista - none - it would be the same thing if they put it in a service pack
Quote:
But then your SP would become Frankenstein's monster, and XP would be slowly screwed. Isn't it better to clear the decks and start again?
So instead of getting a few hundred MB's of service pack, you want to pay £100 ish to be forced to re-install
Quote:
Vista is just the latest in an evolutionary line. Some features are similar, but plenty are improved (and some regress perhaps?) - You are not going to like all of them, but on the whole they are a significant step forward.
I'm not saying they haven't improved some things, but the improvements could all have been implemented in XP, there is not £100 worth of improvements
Quote:
No more expanding menus. A scrollbar for scrolling through programs.
You can enable these options in XP
Quote:
A proper folder system that makes sense. recent Items actually works for me now.
proper folder system ? what does that mean
Recent items works fine for me, what didn't work for you ?
Quote:
ME was awful because virtually nothing was changed and it was so buggy and unstable no-one wanted it.
So what if something does or doesn't change under the hood, if its buggy and unstable, its crap
Vista is the same, they may have improved lots of things under the hood, but the visible changes are pretty slim

Vista has some nice extras, but if you line a vista system up next to an XP system, the changes are pretty hard to justify

Plus MS forced DX10 on vista, another way to muscle a new OS onto the consumer, and pretty soon they their support for XP will drop

I don't like the way MS do business, and vista is no exception, if they wanted to add new features and stuff to vista, fine, i don't mind
But forcing people like me, people who want to play games, to pay £100 (or whatever) to play the latest games, when my OS is perfectly fine, and i have already paid for it once, and i don't want vista, is wrong, and its just another example of M$'s bully boy tactics
Khensu 15th July 2007, 04:28 Quote
My biggest problem with Vista is that it takes up about 8GB... No matter what the standard hard disk size is nowadays, I find it disgusting and definately not worth it.

Also, the new "features" annoy me - hiding or cutting up options, the fact that when I click anywhere near a folder or file it selects the entire line, ... Bah.
The only positive thing I find is the improved driver support (i.e. no need to search for the printer CD), but I really doubt that justifies the extra four to five GB. "It's not because you can, that you should". 8GB for just an OS.... Bah.
tzang 15th July 2007, 05:16 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by completemadness
aero interface thing - been on Linux forever and there is another program u can get for windows if you really want it, in all a waste of resources, plus it means your gfx card is doing 3d 24/7 so it consumes more power and the fan runs faster
UAC - not even worth me holding shift and pressing 3 other keys
DX10 - technically could have been brought to XP
"been on Linux forever", true but how stable is it on Linux? Projects like Beryl are fantastic but are buggy as hell. In fact, there are plentiful features in Linux that Vista now implements but is it stable on Linux? No. Aero's code is also optimised and does not consume much power, as evidentally seen on my power hungry laptop managing 2 and a half hours. Compare that to Linux and my laptop battery is dead within an hour.

I personally keep UAC completely disabled but I find it handy for users who aren't very computer literate. I've spent years fixing computers because users feel the need to change something they shouldn't, which initiated the on-site callout for me in the first place. UAC has its advantages and disadvantages.

DX10 could be brought into XP and I won't disagree, but I can probably see why Microsoft didn't. They don't want to provide support for XP any further (see below).
Quote:
Plus MS forced DX10 on vista, another way to muscle a new OS onto the consumer, and pretty soon they their support for XP will drop

I don't like the way MS do business, and vista is no exception, if they wanted to add new features and stuff to vista, fine, i don't mind
But forcing people like me, people who want to play games, to pay £100 (or whatever) to play the latest games, when my OS is perfectly fine, and i have already paid for it once, and i don't want vista, is wrong, and its just another example of M$'s bully boy tactics
OS support is provided as a limited service. You wouldn't run a company that provides a lifetime support service for its products, the same tactic is applied by Microsoft for its support on XP (which will be dropped as of Jan. 2008, I think 7 years of support is quite a long time). If Renault provided a lifetime warranty for its cars, they'll be spending all their time fixing their ridiculously unreliable cars instead of selling new ones.

Microsoft has forced no one to pick up Vista but those wanting access to the latest and greatest or want to run certain software that requires Vista will have to pay for it. It is a business tactic in the same way when Intel or AMD releases a new CPU that requires a different socket, you are forced to upgrade your motherboard. The same happened to IDE and SATA, ISA and PCI, AGP and PCI-E, etc...

For any business to survive, for the economy to thrive, you need to bring something onto the market to drive it forward. If you keep promoting the same thing, only improved slightly, the market will slowly wither away. It isn't just Microsoft but they just happen to be a nice, big corporate to bash on. Technology cannot advance without improvements over time and improvements can't be made if there is no demand for it nor if there is no competition. If humans lived with no improvements, we'll all still be in stone age :p

Quote:
Originally Posted by Khensu
My biggest problem with Vista is that it takes up about 8GB... No matter what the standard hard disk size is nowadays, I find it disgusting and definately not worth it.
One of the most space consuming problem with Windows is drivers. That huge driver library takes an awful amount of space and Microsoft has worked to ensure they can keep as many people happy as possible with the millions of different hardware combinations out there. You can literally plug any hardware (I use the word any rather lightly here :p) and it will work straight away. You then need to consider all the programming code that powers Vista, ranging from the huge amount of improvements on security and networking to user friendliness. Vista was built to target a huge target audience, not just you and me, for that reason, Microsoft have stuffed a huge load of features into Vista. Sure, quite a lot are useless to some of us but other users will differ in opinion.


[EDIT] A lot of issues with Vista is down to drivers. Microsoft did a complete overhaul on how hardware functions on Vista. Before Vista was officially launched to the consumer market, Vista was already released to developers (known as RTM) about 4 months prior to the official release. This gave hardware manufacturers plenty of time to sort out their drivers but how many manufacturers actually did? nVidia have done virtually nothing to sort out laptop drivers and it took them 3 months to release something partially functional on the 7-series Go model. It also took them 7 months to get SLi working.

This doesn't even take into account the release candidate testing period (RC1 & RC2), manufacturers could have done something then but for many months, they did nothing.

On a side note, some users have mentioned problems alt+tabbing in and out of games, that is a driver issue, nothing to do with Vista.
Overlord 15th July 2007, 06:10 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Veles
If you're gonna blame anyone it should really be the hardware and software developers, their support for Vista has been awful, and the majority of Vista problems stem from there. As it says in the article, Vista is actually very stable, it's just got awful driver support.

I agree Vista has had me impressed but the driver support hasnt. I think the mess over the lack of proper sound drivers from Creative has been the general trend from all the developers. Still waiting for m-audio to release any kind of sound driver.


And 64bit lets not even go there.....
Log in

You are not logged in, please login with your forum account below. If you don't already have an account please register to start contributing.



Discuss in the forums