bit-tech.net

bit-tech.net Community Revamp

bit-tech.net Community Revamp

bit-tech.net Forums - now powered by Tagging Technology. There's also free UK delivery on Scan orders over £20 for all bit-tech regulars

Today is a landmark day - as part of our continual efforts to improve the user experience here at bit-tech.net we have launched a completely new revision of our Discussion Forums.

The new structure now includes powerful filtering technology more commonly known as "tagging". This has allowed us to streamline the structure from over 30 forums down to just 11.

Thanks to the tagging, users can then narrow the available threads according to their interests, such as graphics cards or watercooling, at the click of a button.

Another new feature launching today is our Support Forum. Over the coming months we will be adding a number of manufacturers and resellers to this area to bring benefits directly to bit-tech.net readers.

These forums will give you direct access to staff at these companies who will handle any complaints, pre sales questions and advice, as well as a number special promotions.

From today we welcome Scan Computers, one of the biggest online resellers of IT components and products. In addition to the direct support from Scan staff, regular bit-tech.net forum contributors can benefit from FREE UK DELIVERY on orders over £20 +VAT. Click here to see if you are eligible.

We are keen to hear your feedback on these changes, and we will continue to bring additional benefits to our loyal readers in the coming months.

813 Comments

Discuss in the forums Reply
Hiren 29th June 2007, 13:29 Quote
New forum rocks, nice job Jamie.

I notice we can no longer see post counts? Is this intentional?
yodasarmpit 29th June 2007, 13:31 Quote
New colour scheme is nice, navigation will take getting used to.
CardJoe 29th June 2007, 13:33 Quote
CHANGE IT BACK!

Just joking, I like it really.
felix the cat 29th June 2007, 13:33 Quote
hmm ... lookin good :D ... but harder to find particular threads? are you not afraid of certain sections, ie. general just getting completly swamped at times, so if a casual browser comes to checkout the forums (not a hardcore addict like moi :p) they will find that they have to leave through pages and pages to find what they are looking for?
z3rb 29th June 2007, 13:34 Quote
I like it, although I'll miss my (relatively low) post count.
dognosh 29th June 2007, 13:35 Quote
where is the laptop forum or threads?
ty
Jamie 29th June 2007, 13:35 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by felix the cat
hmm ... lookin good :D ... but harder to find particular threads? are you not afraid of certain sections, ie. general just getting completly swamped at times, so if a casual browser comes to checkout the forums (not a hardcore addict like moi :p) they will find that they have to leave through pages and pages to find what they are looking for?

Filtering the threads by post icon should help but many of our sub forums were completely dead so merging them together should hopefully get people looking through stuff they might not usually see.
Hiren 29th June 2007, 13:36 Quote
The number of forums has been reduced, in order to better make use of tagging. Use the "filter threads" option in the top right to find laptop threads in the hardware forum.

Edit: Jamie beat me to to it. But here is a example:
http://forums.bit-tech.net/forumdisplay.php?forumid=30&picon=46
supermonkey 29th June 2007, 13:39 Quote
Well, I suppose there has to be one grumpy person. I'll let it sink in for a bit, but my first impression is that I liked the old style better.

The color scheme is nice; it looks a little cleaner in that respect. However, the navigation just throws me off. I rather liked the old version, but that may be because I was used to it.

Like I said, I'll give it a try. Maybe I'll come to like the new format, or maybe I'll just pine for the "good old days."

-monkey
mikeuk2004 29th June 2007, 13:40 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by felix the cat
hmm ... lookin good :D ... but harder to find particular threads? are you not afraid of certain sections, ie. general just getting completly swamped at times, so if a casual browser comes to checkout the forums (not a hardcore addict like moi :p) they will find that they have to leave through pages and pages to find what they are looking for?

I was thinking that too. I want to look at things for sale in the UK and if there is alot of activity on USA threads then ill have to trawl through lots of pages to see what for sale in the UK.

You have minimised the catagorys way too much which seems to be a backwards aproach. Should be spliting them more so people can find specific topics of interest to post about.
Hiren 29th June 2007, 13:41 Quote
There were 37 forums in the old version. That's way too many. I would hope people would give the new forum a few days before making snap decisions. Of course we are open to suggestions.
atanum141 29th June 2007, 13:41 Quote
Ahh i see, the sub sections has been reduced but can be accessed via the filter buttons.
Im still not 100% about it but it will need some time to get adjusted to it.

Any chance of getting the retro colors back on the system?

Wha? we lost the post count aswell?
mingingbollock 29th June 2007, 13:42 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by supermonkey
Well, I suppose there has to be one grumpy person. I'll let it sink in for a bit, but my first impression is that I liked the old style better.

The color scheme is nice; it looks a little cleaner in that respect. However, the navigation just throws me off. I rather liked the old version, but that may be because I was used to it.

Like I said, I'll give it a try. Maybe I'll come to like the new format, or maybe I'll just pine for the "good old days."

-monkey

Dito , dont like the new format sorry , much prefered the old
Hiren 29th June 2007, 13:42 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeuk2004
I was thinking that too. I want to look at things for sale in the UK and if there is alot of activity on USA threads then ill have to trawl through lots of pages to see what for sale in the UK.

You have minimised the catagorys way too much which seems to be a backwards aproach. Should be spliting them more so people can find specific topics of interest to post about.

Use the tags! That's what the filter threads options is for. :)
pumpman 29th June 2007, 13:45 Quote
phew , thought something weird was going on with my browser :) , I like the more compact view.
pranks7er 29th June 2007, 13:47 Quote
navigation will take bit get used too, not a fan of all the different tabs tho beside threads
mrbungle 29th June 2007, 13:48 Quote
Generally i hate people changing the layout of forums but this rocks alot better imo and the filters work a treat :)
will. 29th June 2007, 13:49 Quote
Generally pretty cool, but with everything being condensed isn't there a concern that everything will get lost in massive long lists of threads? Oh and where is the entertainment section?
alextwo 29th June 2007, 13:49 Quote
Certainly looks a lot swisher! :D
Da_Rude_Baboon 29th June 2007, 13:51 Quote
Colour scheme is nice, the new layout will take a while to get used to but the images next to the threads are horrible!
Bindibadgi 29th June 2007, 13:51 Quote
Jamie 29th June 2007, 13:51 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by will.
Generally pretty cool, but with everything being condensed isn't there a concern that everything will get lost in massive long lists of threads? Oh and where is the entertainment section?

In General
mikeuk2004 29th June 2007, 13:52 Quote
Going to take some getting used to, I have to say it is unique as I have not seen any forum set out with that tag feature.

Apart from all the sub cats which have gone and replaced with these tags. The rest of it does look good.

Although when I buy from someone on here I tend to check there post count for an idea of how long they been here to trust buying or selling as I dont trust low post counts. Now thats gone I will be more sceptical about sellers and buyers. Only thing I had to go on because if they use this forum allot they maybe well known and safer to sell or buy with.
GreatOldOne 29th June 2007, 13:52 Quote
buglet in filtering?

I went to the General section, filtered on Motors. Couldn't find the thread I wanted as it was posted over a week ago. Used dropdown at base of page to increase the timespan, clicked on show threads... but once it had retrieved the new block of threads the filtering had been removed. Reapplied filter, only to get a weeks worth. Repeat in endless loop...
pranks7er 29th June 2007, 13:53 Quote
asked for honest opinions, i liked it way it was but hey im sure we will get used to it
Hiren 29th June 2007, 13:53 Quote
Post count is still available in the user's profile (click on their name). The min requirements for posting in FS / FT hasn't changed.
Slink 29th June 2007, 13:53 Quote
slinky aprooooved
GamingHobo 29th June 2007, 13:56 Quote
Just a thought but I think the Filter Tab should be open by default. Would help newcomers get used to the system.
oddball walking 29th June 2007, 13:57 Quote
Looks good but the user title would look better above the avatar imo.
mushky 29th June 2007, 13:59 Quote
Looks nice! Maybe a tad on the SA side, but tidy. Plus it should keep things looking busier. Some of the sub forums were way too slow.
alextwo 29th June 2007, 13:59 Quote
I think we've got too many stickies in General now though.
teamtd11 29th June 2007, 14:01 Quote
Is there any way to combine filters? say i go into Hardware & Software, and i want to look at Threads in Graphics and Cooling, or filter out what i dont want to see, like take out portable for example? I guess in a few days i will get used to it :p

also would there be a way to change the images in the filters to plain text, like a option in the control pannel?

The colour scheme is ace though
Highland3r 29th June 2007, 14:02 Quote
Not a fan in the slightest tbh. Forums feel cluttered and overcrowded with little focus or direction. The interface isnt hugely intuative (*sp) either which makes finding interesting or relevant threads hard.
Can see why its been done though, certainly reduces the number of forums and reduces clutter on the forum menu nicely. This could have been achieved in other ways though perhaps? Merging things like hw/overclocking, video and tech support into 1 section. sw - os/apps etc into another. Projects/mods/logs into one. This way you have some sense of common/related threads rather than everything hw/sw related crammed into 1 place for example.
The filtering system is a good idea, but can see people mis-tagging things and making that kinda useless (at least until the tags are corrected)

Guess i'll give it a few days to get used to though and re-consider though (either that or just stop posting :P)
oddball walking 29th June 2007, 14:06 Quote
I prefer the dark style to the light.
the general forum seems to be very overcrowded with too many sticky's on to imo.
DXR_13KE 29th June 2007, 14:08 Quote
this is interesting...... but the general is very cluttered.
Delphium 29th June 2007, 14:11 Quote
Like the colour scheme , navigation am not so keen on at first glimpse, will take getting used to I guess.
Some sections are way to cluttered now tho I feel.

I also agree with oddball walking that the title should be above pic, but maybe im just set in my ways
sam.g.taylor 29th June 2007, 14:12 Quote
I just woke up and wanted to check a post on here and

AHHHHHHHHHH! AHHHHHH. ahhhhh... hmmmm... oooooo...

It will take a while to get used to, I'm sure, but it's all in good taste.

[/old] [new]
Gman22 29th June 2007, 14:13 Quote
I think it will take a while to get used to (especially the whole filtering thing), but so far I am liking it!

Gman22
sam.g.taylor 29th June 2007, 14:14 Quote
Actually, another comment - I really don't like how Hardware and Software have been grouped together. Hardware always got a lot of traffic, and with all the stickies this is going to be a cluttered and busy topic.
Tomm 29th June 2007, 14:15 Quote
I really like it - It looks tidy and neat, and it works much faster than I would have imagined such a system would. We shall see how it copes at peak times though!

Searching: You can't search within one filter, nor can you filter the results page. So you end up with a lot more crap to sift through.

I'm sure there was something else I was going to moan about, but I can't remember.

Keep up the good work ;)
sam.g.taylor 29th June 2007, 14:18 Quote
Ummm, why can't I get to the home page anymore by clicking on the top banner?

I think you, um, forgot...
plug_in_ross 29th June 2007, 14:20 Quote
Neat, but will take some getting used to though.
Hugo.B 29th June 2007, 14:20 Quote
I see that in the general forum it's filter threads or DIE!
Actually, I like it.


H.B.
cpemma 29th June 2007, 14:21 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by alextwo
I think we've got too many stickies in General now though.
Too many stickies (like Useful Links) full stop; we've discussed this and will be sorting out a sort of "One Sticky to Rule them All" for each section. The magic of hyperlinks. ;)
woof82 29th June 2007, 14:22 Quote
Umm... Can I have the old one back please?
plug_in_ross 29th June 2007, 14:22 Quote
Come to think of it, I think I've asked this before, but, can we have a 'Mark Sub-Forum Read' button in each sub-forum?
Silver Shamrock 29th June 2007, 14:23 Quote
Seems odd but will get used to it i suppose. Some of the little thread pics look abit naff though imo.
dom_ 29th June 2007, 14:30 Quote
Cant find the a hifi filter, i see music though.
Hiren 29th June 2007, 14:31 Quote
There is A/V filter for hifi stuff.
Delphium 29th June 2007, 14:35 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by plug_in_ross
Come to think of it, I think I've asked this before, but, can we have a 'Mark Sub-Forum Read' button in each sub-forum?

Good call :)
Nath 29th June 2007, 14:36 Quote
LIEK ZOMG CHANGE IT BACK.

Only joking, looks snazzy. The tags are ace too.
Hiren 29th June 2007, 14:37 Quote
There no sub forums anymore.
steveo_mcg 29th June 2007, 14:39 Quote
The only problem i've got is that its difficult to see if there is any thing new in the quieter forums (fori?). For example used to just scroll past the linux section to check if there was anything interesting by looking at the last post date but now i need to open the forum and filter. Part from that it looks quite funky.
Hugo.B 29th June 2007, 14:41 Quote
Same here.^^^
It's probably a deliberate tactic to make us spend more time on here.


H.B.
Bindibadgi 29th June 2007, 14:44 Quote
Actually:

NOOOES I was sooo close to 20k :'( Now no one will know!
Glider 29th June 2007, 14:45 Quote
Wow, multi quote feature ftw!

It looks ok, but I do need to get used to all the flashy icons... I like a more 'minimal' approach
will. 29th June 2007, 14:46 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie
In General

Ahh, its just twigged. I've got to use the tags to filter stuffs... Nice!

Although, can we have them on the forum index somewhere?
Snaek 29th June 2007, 14:50 Quote
I like the new colors. The filter system's a good idea but I think it needs to be tweaked a little. When I go into Gaming and click on the XBox 360 filter, only one thread shows up. :/
Tim S 29th June 2007, 14:50 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Shamrock
Some of the little thread pics look abit naff though imo.
We have been running a thread in the digital art forum for well over a month and the stance hasn't changed. You are more than welcome to submit your own suggestions if you think you can improve them. After all, it's not a community if the members don't have a voice. The same goes for smilies too. ;)

You can find that thread here: http://forums.bit-tech.net/showthread.php?t=132766
Glider 29th June 2007, 14:53 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaek
I like the new colors. The filter system's a good idea but I think it needs to be tweaked a little. When I go into Gaming and click on the XBox 360 filter, only one thread shows up. :/

A lot of stickys seem to have gone too... Not that it's that important, some needed cleaning up anyway. What the new compacter forum structure does imply is that there are a lot more stickys on the unfiltered pages.

One annoying thing that's on top of every page ;) http://forums.bit-tech.net/memberlist.php :D
oddball walking 29th June 2007, 14:57 Quote
Is the still a potm archive to view the entry's?
capnPedro 29th June 2007, 14:59 Quote
TBH I thought I'd hate it when I first saw the new structure, but after trying it out for a while, I like it.

It's still pretty easy to navigate but at the same time I get exposed to some threads I otherwise would not see. Good job.
PA!N 29th June 2007, 15:01 Quote
Uhhh so shiny
I like what you did here, at least what I noticed to this moment.
But what's up with the post count? I always regarded that as helpfull when reading through replys!
Hiren 29th June 2007, 15:03 Quote
Is there any particular reason why you would judge someone response based on their postcount?

I mean take a look at Bindi, he has nearly 20k posts yet never says anything useful. :p
gar 29th June 2007, 15:05 Quote
I must admit, I don't like change, but it can be a good thing. I think this will be a great format once I learn to use it. I hope I will be able to adapt. Will the site take a poll on the format? At the moment I'm undecided. I'll let you know in 1 week:D Good work though!
will. 29th June 2007, 15:06 Quote
Can you make the sickies go away? :p

There are quite a few on some of the sections. Perhaps making them expand like the tags do would be a good idea.
Hiren 29th June 2007, 15:08 Quote
Stickies haven't been fully pruned yet. It's something that we are currently discussing the best way to go about handling.

All this feedback is good stuff ;)
Glider 29th June 2007, 15:08 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiren
Is there any particular reason why you would judge someone response based on their postcount?

I mean take a look at Bindi, he has nearly 20k posts yet never says anything useful. :p

I do value postcount a bit, and it certainly helps in the FS forums I guess

Also, I like the move of the smilies table, but I would rather use the white space ;)

http://glider.sin.khk.be/pix/whitespace.png
pendragon 29th June 2007, 15:08 Quote
I think it'd be nice if you could keep clicking on multiple tags so that you could end up with a thread list of more than one group of topics ....unless you can do that already and I'm missing something
Jamie 29th June 2007, 15:09 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaek
I like the new colors. The filter system's a good idea but I think it needs to be tweaked a little. When I go into Gaming and click on the XBox 360 filter, only one thread shows up. :/

We have not been back through every single thread and tagged it correctly. Threads are tagged with a post icon that relates to the forum they were in before today. From now on you can create threads that are more specific such as 360, PS3 etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomm
I really like it - It looks tidy and neat, and it works much faster than I would have imagined such a system would. We shall see how it copes at peak times though!

Searching: You can't search within one filter, nor can you filter the results page. So you end up with a lot more crap to sift through.

I'm sure there was something else I was going to moan about, but I can't remember.

Keep up the good work ;)

Search is an issue, there are lots of things to iron out still.
Jamie 29th June 2007, 15:15 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glider
I do value postcount a bit, and it certainly helps in the FS forums I guess

Also, I like the move of the smilies table, but I would rather use the white space ;)

http://glider.sin.khk.be/pix/whitespace.png

That is interesting, the reply box is acting funny in Firefox. I shall take a look at it.
MiT 29th June 2007, 15:41 Quote
WTF! lol.

Just got back from a week holiday, and just seen this massive change. Look nice, loads of changes, will need to get use too it. Will comment more when i have had a play. I prefer this colour scheme, (thats just me thou). So happy you added multi quote. Anyway keep up the work, am sure there more to come.
Tim S 29th June 2007, 15:47 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by oddball walking
Is the still a potm archive to view the entry's?

I believe there is a POTM Archive tag (or there was going to be one if there isn't), which would be changed by either the moderator of the compo (Rich) or Rich. :)

Thanks so far for everyone's feedback - we really appreciate it and without you guys, there wouldn't be a community on bit-tech. ;)
Amon 29th June 2007, 15:48 Quote
It's good. The forum sections are significantly condensed, though, making each section balloon in complexity and more difficult to locate topics of specific criteria (or semi-inactive ones that have been flushed out too quickly).
Tim S 29th June 2007, 15:50 Quote
The tagging should hopefully be your friend Amon. ;)
zhangmaster12 29th June 2007, 15:52 Quote
nahh, i like the previous one better, easier to navigate.
Amon 29th June 2007, 15:59 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim S
The tagging should hopefully be your friend Amon. ;)

I hope so. Is the tagging autonomous based on keywords?

**edit: nevermind.
Tim S 29th June 2007, 16:01 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amon
I hope so. Is the tagging autonomous based on keywords?

When a thread is created, the thread creator assigns a tag that they feel best suits their thread topic. If they don't select a tag, it'll default to something - I vote for "n00b" but I'm not sure others would agree. :p
oddball walking 29th June 2007, 16:07 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim S
When a thread is created, the thread creator assigns a tag that they feel best suits their thread topic. If they don't select a tag, it'll default to something - I vote for "n00b" but I'm not sure others would agree. :p

n00b gets my vote.
The more i use the new layout the more it has grown on me. ;)
Tibby 29th June 2007, 16:10 Quote
I liked the old forum as it was kinda distinctive of Bit-tech.
But I will give the new layout a go.
karbonKid 29th June 2007, 16:18 Quote
Hey guys,
I applaud the revised layout, it's much clearer without the clutter of header categories. However, the 'message icons' are far too large - i'm finding the project logs almost unbrowsable. any chance they could be made smaller, eg 25px square instead of the current rectangular format? They just take up too much space to my eye, and make thread titles harder to read/browse through. What do other people think?

PS i'm not meaning to be rude - you guys do a great job. Just some constructive criticism :)
samkiller42 29th June 2007, 16:20 Quote
Is there anyway, that users who want the old layout back, can at least have the layout back to it, while user's who like the new style can continue as normal.
But my personal preference is that i do not like this layout at all.

Sorry.

Sam
Tim S 29th June 2007, 16:21 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by karbonKid
Hey guys,
I applaud the revised layout, it's much clearer without the clutter of header categories. However, the 'message icons' are far too large - i'm finding the project logs almost unbrowsable. any chance they could be made smaller, eg 25px square instead of the current rectangular format? They just take up too much space to my eye, and make thread titles harder to read/browse through. What do other people think?

PS i'm not meaning to be rude - you guys do a great job. Just some constructive criticism :)

Hey there,

Thanks for your feedback, we really appreciate it. I will stitch this one onto the other discussion that's going on. Hold tight. ;)
Amon 29th June 2007, 16:24 Quote
Come to think of it, these icons are quite nifty and are just the right size. The mind can interpret imagery more readily than words, so it helps find topics by criteria quicker by just looking.

Suggestion: in the "For Sale and Wanted" section, the North American sales icon could probably use the addition of a Canadian flag (or other flag) in it because when lightly skimming the topics, it's far too easy to misinterpret UK sales for North American ones--they are the same blue-white-red colour.
ChromeX 29th June 2007, 16:26 Quote
I'm not a fan of this new layout at all! the colours are nice its just how the forums are all grouped together. Though I guess once I get used to it, it wont be so bad :)
yodasarmpit 29th June 2007, 16:32 Quote
My only concern is that some of the less popular subjects will disappear amongst the many other posts in the reduced categories.

Getting used to the filter system may be the answer, but that will rely on people consistently tagging their posts.
tm36usa 29th June 2007, 16:32 Quote
Looks good and all but can i please get the old school bit color scheme back? Pretty please? With a cherry? I loved that color scheme to death and this one just hurts my eyes.
monkeyville 29th June 2007, 16:34 Quote
I'm going to miss postcounts.

Call me old fashioned but i'd rather know at a glance if the user is a long standing member or just some n00b fanboy. in general discussion i tend to ignore fanboy or obnoxious comments made by newbies but will rise to the challenge if its someone long standing. In the for sale forum its essential for good trades and i know its available in profiles but its a lot of effort if your browsing 20 different threads.

Its not a huge difference to the aesthetics and would be a much better left in. What was the reason for removing it?
supermonkey 29th June 2007, 16:37 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by yodasarmpit
Getting used to the filter system may be the answer, but that will rely on people consistently tagging their posts.
I have a comment that's kind of in line with what Yoda said here. In the Project Logs forum, what's the difference between "Case Mod," "Scratch Build," and "Project Log?" I just popped in there to see how it handles this new structure, and when I run the filter on "Project Logs", the Enzo Ferrari mod goes away. The three choices seem somewhat arbitrary, and the different tags could result in top-quality builds getting skipped over when people hit one filter or another.

-monkey
Evenge 29th June 2007, 16:38 Quote
Hey nice work guys! New layout looks little bit too different to my eye but hey, I will get used to it. ;)
Glider 29th June 2007, 16:40 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyville
I'm going to miss postcounts.

Call me old fashioned but i'd rather know at a glance if the user is a long standing member or just some n00b fanboy. in general discussion i tend to ignore fanboy or obnoxious comments made by newbies but will rise to the challenge if its someone long standing. In the for sale forum its essential for good trades and i know its available in profiles but its a lot of effort if your browsing 20 different threads.

Its not a huge difference to the aesthetics and would be a much better left in. What was the reason for removing it?
Maybe ditch the join date, and put postcount in it's place?
Hells_Bliss 29th June 2007, 16:41 Quote
it's growing on me :) I like the filters, but could you shorten the user info bar on the left? It seems a bit big

gave me a shock this morning when I refreshed my browser lol
Tim S 29th June 2007, 16:45 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by tm36usa
Looks good and all but can i please get the old school bit color scheme back? Pretty please? With a cherry? I loved that color scheme to death and this one just hurts my eyes.

There is a dark version of the theme selectable in your user profile, or did you mean something else?
GamingHobo 29th June 2007, 16:48 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by capnPedro
TBH I thought I'd hate it when I first saw the new structure, but after trying it out for a while, I like it.

It's still pretty easy to navigate but at the same time I get exposed to some threads I otherwise would not see. Good job.

Good call, this is why the change is good. This way you're more likely to see interesting things from forums you never used to visit.
ComputerKing 29th June 2007, 16:50 Quote
WOWOWOOWOWWO

Damit!!!!

That's what I'm talking about!!

Bit-tech you ROCK!!



The best I ever saw in my life
Hiren 29th June 2007, 16:50 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by yodasarmpit
Getting used to the filter system may be the answer, but that will rely on people consistently tagging their posts.

A thread has to be tagged when created. There is no way to create a thread without it being tagged.
tm36usa 29th June 2007, 16:51 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim S
There is a dark version of the theme selectable in your user profile, or did you mean something else?

Yeah Tim, I did see that and I tried to activate it like the last time the color changed, but sadly dark, light and forum default are all the same color. Not sure whats going on, but my dark wont work :(

Edit: and why did my user tag change? it used to be "my money fights for me" and now its "I *am* a Dremel". What gives?

Edit2: Now dark works, but im afraid its not dark enough, not like the old bit layout from 4 years ago. It was classic and i loved it.
Fr4nk 29th June 2007, 16:52 Quote
Wow, this was a bit of a shock at first, any chance of the option for ad's on the left ? (dark) pretty please.

Otherwise looking good, relatively easily to nav' hthrough once you get used to it.
Veles 29th June 2007, 16:53 Quote
Gonna take some getting used to but this looks excellent.
Mankz 29th June 2007, 16:54 Quote
Guys, I love it, but can we please get the post count back!

I'm just soo proud of my 2,000- odd posts.
specofdust 29th June 2007, 16:57 Quote
Yeah, I'd like postcounts back also. They give people an idea of who are the regulars and who are the irregulars, and you don't get so many people assuming that you're a total noob if you're saying something they disagree with.

edit: love the AJAX stuff btw.
Fusen 29th June 2007, 16:59 Quote
wow, it looks a lot cleaner!
ComputerKing 29th June 2007, 17:00 Quote
Post Counter make problems

I love to make new rank like photos for each rank or color or some thing... This will be much better

this my idea :D
Fr4nk 29th June 2007, 17:07 Quote
Eh? Well i've been using the Retro Dark theme with left ads for the past 2 years or so... And by the looks of things Bit is still on Vb so I don't see why it should be too hard to re-enable... ;)

Edit, oooo in-thread-editing is v.Nice ;)
Spacecowboy92 29th June 2007, 17:08 Quote
I would realy like the post count back, I worked hard for my 300+ posts. :( Over all I like it, it's a bit early to say for sure but im sure it will grow on me more.
Hiren 29th June 2007, 17:08 Quote
Meh must be my mistake, I was sure there was a reason why ads were on the right.
Bindibadgi 29th June 2007, 17:12 Quote
Muhahahaha I've just found the "Give Infraction" button :D You lot better be good.
knuck 29th June 2007, 17:12 Quote
I like it. I feel right at home since it looks a lot like the nokytech forums (french watercooling site/forum)


oh and no need for the post count, this way I look cooler because I dont have a 100 posts in 5 years and a half :D
Tim S 29th June 2007, 17:19 Quote
The general concensus seems to be that people would like to see postcount and the reasons given so far have all been very valid. I've asked Jamie to turn them back on... they should be back soon. :)
knuck 29th June 2007, 17:22 Quote
ahhh there goes my credibility :D
Tim S 29th June 2007, 17:24 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghys
ahhh there goes my credibility :D

sorry, eheheh :)
felix the cat 29th June 2007, 17:27 Quote
I like the idea of cleaning up, and making it a lot neat(er)...I guess the main drive behind this is to make it easier to browse with less backwards/forwards action going on...I would like to know if this change will actually reduce server load (maybe in terms of total traffic) or increase as now the search function is obviously going to need to be used a lot more...

...the only reason, why I would say now, after not using it much (yet), which I guess you could say is unfair on all of you putting work into this, that I prefer the old system is that now I dont think I will have the time to browse the so called "smaller" forums that I used to, even if I did not post...for example if Im bored, I would go through a couple of pages of serious discussion just to see what people are arguing about...now this will take a lot longer, so I might just end up not reading it anymore :( ...anyone else concerned about this??

also, do you not think seperating the US and UK FS forums was a good idea, and something that might have been kept on the new system aswell??+

just wanted to say kudos for making it look damn hawt though :D
Herbicide 29th June 2007, 17:27 Quote
I think most of the little gripes are along the lines of 'hey! they changed it!'

Like the wide reply box BTW.

(Postcount in 3...2...YAY!)

- H.
Jamie 29th June 2007, 17:27 Quote
Post count is back
calnen 29th June 2007, 17:28 Quote
I'm not sure about the new layout. Will give it a while before deciding.

One instant thing though - the Scan offer sounded fantastic, but when I clicked on the link it said I wasnt eligible? Exactly how many posts do you need before you qualify? (Apologies if this has already been dealt with, but the thread's getting a bit long to read through all of it.)
Spacecowboy92 29th June 2007, 17:29 Quote
Awesomness! Post count is back.
yodasarmpit 29th June 2007, 17:29 Quote
When browsing the forum from the "new posts" link you get an error page if you click one of the image tags on the left.

Edit, they are no longer hyperlinked.
Hiren 29th June 2007, 17:35 Quote
^ That's a bug Jamie is currently trying to fix.
Tim S 29th June 2007, 17:35 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by calnen
I'm not sure about the new layout. Will give it a while before deciding.

One instant thing though - the Scan offer sounded fantastic, but when I clicked on the link it said I wasnt eligible? Exactly how many posts do you need before you qualify? (Apologies if this has already been dealt with, but the thread's getting a bit long to read through all of it.)

Check down in the Scan forum - I believe it's a very reasonable 10 constructive posts in the last 30 days (and afaik it rolls on, meaning that you have to be a regular posting member of the community to qualify). I think that's a very reasonable thing to ask, especially considering how much it's costing Scan to offer free delivery to the bit-tech community. :)
mclean007 29th June 2007, 17:41 Quote
What's this about not being able to see post counts? I can still see them? Confused!!

Also, what are the criteria for free Scan delivery? I consider myself a long-term contributor to the forums, and have done so consistently for four years (albeit not every day) and am told I am not eligible, which seems a bit unreasonable.
knuck 29th June 2007, 17:41 Quote
they're back, that's why

oh and read the post #120 to understand why you'Re not eligible
mclean007 29th June 2007, 17:43 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghys
they're back, that's why

oh and read the post #120 to understand why you'Re not eligible

d'oh - that'll teach me to refresh my browser and read the more recent posts :(

Incidentally, if anyone cares, Scan's free delivery now loves me.
knuck 29th June 2007, 17:47 Quote
(out of topic)Hiren that BT logo was cool back in the days, I remember about 5 years ago I had it as my wallpaper :D
Delphium 29th June 2007, 17:51 Quote
Title above avatar, post count back, multiple quotes made easy = WIN.
I also look forward to the support area, putting the members in contact with manufacturs and retailers, ie scan, whom ive always done a lot of business with, now with free postage, wikked :D
Getting used to the tagging filter system, I like the way things are moving on the forum.

Keep up the good work Bit-Tech ;)
Hiren 29th June 2007, 17:56 Quote
Yup, I'm a old school member and that old logo brings back fond memories. I still have a old school logo case badge on my home PC.
AlexB 29th June 2007, 17:56 Quote
Not so hot with JS turned off.. filters dont work.

Looks pretty, but harder to use.
calnen 29th June 2007, 17:56 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim S
Check down in the Scan forum - I believe it's a very reasonable 10 constructive posts in the last 30 days (and afaik it rolls on, meaning that you have to be a regular posting member of the community to qualify). I think that's a very reasonable thing to ask, especially considering how much it's costing Scan to offer free delivery to the bit-tech community. :)

Isnt that just going to encourage people to spam-post the forum for an hour before they want to order something? To be perfectly honest it might with me!

Edit - I think I misread your post originally - I read it as 30 posts per 10 days. Shows how little I've been on here lately I suppose! But 10 posts a month seems fair, definately. My bad!
knuck 29th June 2007, 18:01 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiren
Yup, I'm a old school member and that old logo brings back fond memories. I still have a old school logo case badge on my home PC.

oh yeah those were nice !

okay back to topic, sorry :)
Tim S 29th June 2007, 18:02 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by calnen
Isnt that just going to encourage people to spam-post the forum for an hour before they want to order something? To be perfectly honest it might with me!

Edit - I think I misread your post originally - I read it as 30 posts per 10 days. Shows how little I've been on here lately I suppose! But 10 posts a month seems fair, definately. My bad!

The moderators will continue to remove posts that are determined to be nothing more than spam and also Scan has the right to decline the free delivery offer if they feel a particular member is abusing it (the really obvious stuff). ;)

We think that 10 posts in 30 days is fairly reasonable and hopefully it should get some more members being active in the forum too. :)
cjmUK 29th June 2007, 18:03 Quote
On the plus side, I have already taken advantage of the Scan free delivery.

On the downside, I'm not sure how much longer I can stand the site.

The filter images are giving me a headache. I'm not sure what it is, but I can barely read the text because the long column of images is 'distracting' me. I've had to turn images off in Firefox in order view the forums. But then I had to turn them back on again to make this post.

Those images are going to have to go... or at least be an editable option. Plus they should really be towards the RHS out of the way.

I can also see myself saving bookmarks of filtered pages rather than going through the forums themselves. For every 'filter' I'm interested in, there is another that I'm not, so it's annoying to have to wade through all the crap. If there was some sort of persistent filtering, it would be more acceptable, but I'm afraid this current interface is a bodge.

I'm sure there will be some new features that are useful, but as yet I cant get over the obvious flaws.
hobbs 29th June 2007, 18:04 Quote
you guys should use sub forums insted of those tags, i like the old style alot better
<A88> 29th June 2007, 18:09 Quote
Multi-quote is definately going to be tough competition for sliced bread as the most useful invention ever.

<A88>
ComputerKing 29th June 2007, 18:13 Quote
This the best Site in the Whole World!!!!

Well Done Guys

Can you add more Smilies ? Lol
Ramble 29th June 2007, 18:16 Quote
Good things:
Looks nicer
Simpler
Multi-quote, about time
Cool quick reply
Page seems a bit wider

Bad things:
Annoying tagging images, hard to read
No seperation of topics, harder to find certain threads
Feels a bit slower
Usually I'd browse around each of the forums for a bit, now I'm already bored because I've done that now.

So, some good things and some bad. I sorely hope you'll continue improving though.
Atomic 29th June 2007, 18:17 Quote
I like the idea of the tags, but the images are too obtrusive and I find them distracting.

If there were an option to have them plain and/or colour coded like the main site section headings I'd be a happy chapie.

EDIT!!! just seen from CK's post.... IMAGES IN SIGS!!!! WHA!
Renoir 29th June 2007, 18:17 Quote
I like the fact that news, article, column discussions are in one forum now as I use to hate having a tab open on FF just to keep up with 1 article or column discussion.

I think most here would agree that the ability to check multiple filters is an absolute must and will make the filter system far more palatable?

I agree the thread icons (news etc) aren't particularly nice to look at and are a bit distracting. Also they're not all that legible either. Would be nice if having them be just simple text was an option in the control panel. That would solve the legibility and distraction issues mentioned above in one fell swoop.

Overall I like the changes in principle but the actual implementation could do with a bit of tweaking.

Keep up the good work!
Tim S 29th June 2007, 18:19 Quote
maybe an option for those that don't like the multitude of coloured images is for us to offer another theme with plain black and white (or <insert favourite colour here>) tags?

I'm throwing the boat out since I'm curious as to what you think we can do to "improve" the tags for those that don't like the coloured versions. :)

EDIT: another option could be plain text... mebbe?
Tim S 29th June 2007, 18:20 Quote
I think images in sigs is a mistake (I sure hope it is)

NINJA EDIT: yes it is - it's on by default and we didn't disable it.
yodasarmpit 29th June 2007, 18:20 Quote
ermmm, Image sigs seem to have been enabled.
Error or intentional?
ComputerKing 29th June 2007, 18:21 Quote
:( no Image sigs is the best :(

color tags are the best too

EDIT : no Sig Images :(:(:(:'(:'(:'( I want them:'(:'(:'(:'(:'(:'(
Atomic 29th June 2007, 18:22 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim S
maybe an option for those that don't like the multitude of coloured images is for us to offer another theme with plain black and white (or <insert favourite colour here>) tags?
It's got My vote.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim S
I think images in sigs is a mistake (I sure hope it is)
Would be the end of years of saying no to them that's for sure! Phew they're off now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Computerking
:( no Image sigs is the best :(
Hell no! Ugh.
Ramble 29th June 2007, 18:26 Quote
Rahter than the current tags, why not colour the topic banner a different colour (not too heavy) for different topics.
OR, offer some kind of sorting service for those that like the multiple forums where posts based on tags automatically get sorted into some kind of virtual forum.

Please keep images in sigs OFF.
Tim S 29th June 2007, 18:28 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramble
Please keep images in sigs OFF.
Don't worry, they're staying off - they were on by default in the new forum install and the option was moved from where it was previously. We've located the rogue and eliminated him ;)
ComputerKing 29th June 2007, 18:29 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim S
Don't worry, they're staying off - they were on by default in the new forum install and the option was moved from where it was previously. We've located the rogue and eliminated him ;)


Hate you Tim :'(:'(:'( why they off? what the reson !:'(:'(
Tim S 29th June 2007, 18:32 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Computerking
Hate you Tim :'(:'(:'( why they off? what the reson !:'(:'(

I wasn't referring to you - I was referring to the rogue option in the admin control panel.

Images in signatures have been off for as long as this forum has existed because the community (collectively speaking here) has always felt that they do nothing but clutter up the forum/posts. It also means pages take longer to load, and there are many many more reasons to leave them off too. It's one thing that we won't be changing, because it's something that has been a fixture on bit since before bit's forum existed.
will. 29th June 2007, 18:32 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Computerking
:( no Image sigs is the best :(

color tags are the best too

EDIT : no Sig Images :(:(:(:'(:'(:'( I want them:'(:'(:'(:'(:'(:'(
Quote:
Originally Posted by Computerking
Hate you Tim :'(:'(:'( why they off? what the reson !:'(:'(


Are you on Crack?

Oh and: YAY, My internet penis is back!

(I am of course referring to my post count...)
cjmUK 29th June 2007, 18:33 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim S
maybe an option for those that don't like the multitude of coloured images is for us to offer another theme with plain black and white (or <insert favourite colour here>) tags?

How about... and I'm going out on a limb here - this might not be to everybody's taste... how about text? Quite radical, but I reckon it would catch on.

And as someone else has suggested, [persistent] multiple tag selection would just about make it useful.

Things like multi-quotes are brilliant, but these tags and combined forums are a solution to a problem that didn't exist. I mean the guy who does PC Gaming but also has an Xbox, a PS3 and a Wii is laughing his socks off. He's got all his posts rolled into one forum - it's great. The rest of us have to take the extra step to filter out all but our one area of interest.

But hang on a minute... Mr I-play-all-formats has got a little confused and is responding to a post on BF2 Modern Combat think he's talking about the PC version of BF2..!

I know many people are resistant to change, and I know that you guys have invested a lot of time and effort to make an improvement, but personally, I think you've made a big mistake. And this should have run as public BETA first - this issues could have been address before go-live.
ComputerKing 29th June 2007, 18:33 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim S
I wasn't referring to you - I was referring to the rogue option in the admin control panel.

Images in signatures have been off for as long as this forum has existed because the community (collectively speaking here) has always felt that they do nothing but clutter up the forum/posts. It also means pages take longer to load, and there are many many more reasons to leave them off too. It's one thing that we won't be changing, because it's something that has been a fixture on bit since before bit's forum existed.


Ahh get you Mr Tim ;);) Damit on Sig Photos

EDIT : I want more similes!!!
Renoir 29th June 2007, 18:33 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramble
offer some kind of sorting service for those that like the multiple forums where posts based on tags automatically get sorted into some kind of virtual forum.

Virtual forum idea is awesome!!!!! Create a custom forum made up of all the subforums that interest you. I imagine this would be a huge undertaking but it would most likely be the holy grail. Who agrees?
eek 29th June 2007, 18:36 Quote
I'm not sure I like the new forum structure, it is going to take a bit of getting used to.

Having to go into a forum topic and then use filters seems a lot more convoluted and time consuming than just selecting the required topic in the first place, even if there were 37 of them!!

I do like the new colour scheme though :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiren
Yup, I'm a old school member and that old logo brings back fond memories. I still have a old school logo case badge on my home PC.
Awesome, I remember entering a comp to create a wallpaper using that logo. It was the first time I had ever won a competition!!
Tim S 29th June 2007, 18:45 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjmUK
How about... and I'm going out on a limb here - this might not be to everybody's taste... how about text? Quite radical, but I reckon it would catch on.

And as someone else has suggested, [persistent] multiple tag selection would just about make it useful.
I suggested plain text when I edited my post. If I'm honest, I'm not a codie and I'm not fluent in vBulletin so I couldn't tell you if it's possible.

BUT, I would like to think it is possible, but it's up to the codies to say "yes" or "no" it is/is not possible.

Again, multiple tagging is definitely a "cool" feature and one that I think would be very useful, but I cannot give you an answer on whether it is or isn't possible. Of course, everything is possible (in an ideal world), but it's a question of how much mess needs to be made to get it running.
pendragon 29th June 2007, 19:01 Quote
if i recall correctly here..

when these tags were being created, there was a movement by forum members to make them all one color-style (i.e. same colors as bit-tech's website). However, that movement was tossed out by admins because they felt the same-color tags would be harder to easily differentiate. I think the tagging idea was modeled after another website that did something similiar, yes?
yodasarmpit 29th June 2007, 19:07 Quote
Forum breaks using Mobile Opera on Windows Mobile 2003.
Clicking on a forum such as general gives the error
Code:
Internal communication error
write failed (17) : Sys
error: 17

http://forums.bit-tech.net/forumdisplay.php?f=20

Edit, might have been at my end, seems to be working fine now.
imkeller 29th June 2007, 19:12 Quote
It looks better but it's not great to navigate imo. It would be so much easier if the filter pictures were all similarly styled instead of random pictures that are not really related to the section
cool_dude 29th June 2007, 19:13 Quote
Oh my god, I acutally hate this layout. Can you provide members an option to switch back? Hate how its structured, too hard to navigate around and it just IMO looks out of place.... I mean whats with the little images by the side saying "poll" "serious" etc... man just looks awful in my honest opinion.

Bring back the old ! or at least provide it as an option please!!

Hexus's upgrade is sweet, cant you do it how they have, this is a NIGHTMARE to navigate its actually driving me loop the loop. How the hell could you have crammed ALL of them sections into such a small space, cant you space them out again as they were laid out originally?! Please!!!
Ramble 29th June 2007, 19:13 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by pendragon
I think the tagging idea was modeled after another website that did something similiar, yes?

I think SomethingAwful have been doing it for a while.
Tim S 29th June 2007, 19:16 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by pendragon
if i recall correctly here..

when these tags were being created, there was a movement by forum members to make them all one color-style (i.e. same colors as bit-tech's website). However, that movement was tossed out by admins because they felt the same-color tags would be harder to easily differentiate. I think the tagging idea was modeled after another website that did something similiar, yes?

Yes, we felt it would be harder to differentiate, but I think it is possible for us to implement another theme with much plainer tags if that is what people would like. I think we (as in the guys working in the office) reached the concensus that multi-colour tagging would be the right way, but we're here to listen to feedback and adapt to what the community wants to see.

I can certainly understand why the community went down the "samey" route and listening to the feedback here, I am fairly sure that we can either offer a plain text version or a more uniform version. ;)

Of course, if you want to start creating new tags for a "new" theme, you are more than welcome to submit your suggestions in this thread: http://forums.bit-tech.net/showthread.php?t=132766
Smilodon 29th June 2007, 19:18 Quote
First impression is a bit bad, but i won't give it thumbs down before i have gotten used to it. (You know, afraid of everything new... ;) )


I like the new colors. The new layout seems a bit...cluttered. (pretty many threads to scroll trough). I guess i will get used to it, though.

I agree with the others here that the filter images could be better, though :)

Edit: colors in tags are ok, but they should be uniform in their style. (at least the text should be in the same place on all of them )
Quote:
Originally Posted by Computerking
Ahh get you Mr Tim ;);) Damit on Sig Photos

EDIT : I want more similes!!!

Don't you have enough of those?..
ComputerKing 29th June 2007, 19:21 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smilodon
Don't you have enough of those?..

no I need more to Express my feelings!
cool_dude 29th June 2007, 19:23 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smilodon
The new layout seems a bit...cluttered.

QFT. Can you guys un-clutter it to its original state? I guess the actual new upgrade can have getting used to but I mean its so cluttered I find it hard to read anything now. And it looks like its not just me.
oddball walking 29th June 2007, 19:24 Quote
I'm with Ck need more smiley's.:) ;) :)
Gman22 29th June 2007, 19:27 Quote
Just a slight bug...

I'm using the dark theme right now. I clicked a link that opened a new window of a single post, and the color scheme was suddenly the light color scheme.

Gman22
samkiller42 29th June 2007, 19:28 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim S
Check down in the Scan forum - I believe it's a very reasonable 10 constructive posts in the last 30 days (and afaik it rolls on, meaning that you have to be a regular posting member of the community to qualify). I think that's a very reasonable thing to ask, especially considering how much it's costing Scan to offer free delivery to the bit-tech community. :)

Im very grateful that scan are providing this to us, its just a shame, i dont use them.

Sam
hobbs 29th June 2007, 20:07 Quote
Can you put it up on a vote? because it is the people who visit this site who look at it the most, just not the admins. Im not the only one who finds this harder to dead the forums.
BioSniper 29th June 2007, 20:15 Quote
Sorry guys but I can't say I like it too much.

The new colour schemes I find very hard to read. The "light" is far too bright and gives me eye strain after about 5 mins of reading and the Dark.. well.. The black text blends into the background too much. Obviously that's an eye sight thing but I would really appreciate bit-retro dark coming back as that's the only colour scheme I could read.
I think I remember having to ask for this last time the forums were changed too.

Also I would have to say that I think the forum navigation is much harder. It just feels far more cluttered, specifically the for sale sections.

Also when replying to threads the text box isn't centralised to the frame it's in, it's aligned left (though this may only be after "switching to advanced" editing mode)
The additional options below also feels a little too forced, there's a stack of dead space to the right of them, imo due to the text width they should be stacked side by side.

Don't get me wrong, I really appreciate what you guys are doing and understand what you are tying to achieve.
Just trying to give a different point of view on it is all :)
Bogomip 29th June 2007, 20:16 Quote
Im sure as I learn how to actually find threads it will get better, but change is scary :P

I also miss the entertainment forum :(

edit: oh ok its all worked out now. Suggestion of mine would be being able to select multiple filters and having the forum remember or something so its always easy to get a "custom forum" you like :)
SteveyG 29th June 2007, 21:07 Quote
Is there any way to get the filter thing at the top to always stay up instead of having to expand it all the time?
Lorquis 29th June 2007, 21:10 Quote
.... I don't like it... I don't like it.... I don't like it.



*sniff*
The cheapskate 29th June 2007, 21:12 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorquis
.... I don't like it... I don't like it.... I don't like it.


*sniff*

Sorry guys I agree with lorquis, Im not persuaded.
Mister_Tad 29th June 2007, 21:15 Quote
Give it a chance guys, my first impression was the same, but after less than an hour of browsing I'm quite used to it. There are some minor tweaks here an there that I think could improve it (mainly splitting the hardware/software down into two or three seperate sections), but thats it.

I think overall it will encourage a lot more participation in areas of the forums which were previously quite quiet. If this upsets the odd few "old-shcool" users, oh well.
yodasarmpit 29th June 2007, 21:26 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister_Tad


I think overall it will encourage a lot more participation in areas of the forums which were previously quite quiet. .
I'm a little concerned it will achieve the opposite, posts that would remain visible in the quieter forums will be lost in the new system with the deluge of popular topics.
Ramble 29th June 2007, 21:28 Quote
Following a post by Tim in General, why not implement a subscriber system, where us subscribers pay and get certain features in return (delete posts, fewer ads, etc.).
Hell, I'd gladly pay.

Also, if it hurts your eyes, put it on the dark theme, I'm finding it a lot easier to read now (kinda getting used to it too).
Plus, the serious discussions are getting more views and posts now.
Fatboy 29th June 2007, 21:28 Quote
Im not eligible for the Scan thing.

Obviously 6 years of membership arent enough.

Im assuming its only available for people who spam or spend ages posting on here all of the time!
Lorquis 29th June 2007, 21:30 Quote
I can see all sides, one thing I have noticed is it gets you looking at topics that previously were in other sections. but again it just looks like a complete mess, and also what's the point in bunching the for sale/wanted forums, I'm in the UK, why do I need to look at the US stuff, and if I wanted to filter it then I have to read the sale, the wanted etc separately

Plus I know that even though all the topic icons are meant to be all "of the community" but, it's as if I've been caught in a interweb-time-warp and gone back to 1998 and a whole world of random naff looking animated gifs etc, whilst at the same time there's this really cool quick reply thing that works apparently entirely on pixie dust and blue smoke!

Personally I'd like the option of having cascaded forum display or like this. There's too much change going on in the England as it is... Brown? Smokefree? Bit-Tech? I cannae take eet cap'n I CANNAE TAKE EET!!!
Mister_Tad 29th June 2007, 21:37 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by yodasarmpit
I'm a little concerned it will achieve the opposite, posts that would remain visible in the quieter forums will be lost in the new system with the deluge of popular topics.

This is why I would like to see the hardware/software seciton split down a little bit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatboy

Obviously 6 years of membership arent enough.

The eligibility requirements are detailed in a thread in the Scan forum, you have to be a regular participant in the forums.
Tim S 29th June 2007, 21:38 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatboy
Im not eligible for the Scan thing.

Obviously 6 years of membership arent enough.

Im assuming its only available for people who spam or spend ages posting on here all of the time!

Neither in fact, we're asking you to post 10 times in the 30 days before placing an order that qualifies for free delivery. How is one post every three days spamming? There are thousands of threads created in this forum every month, so I can't see how picking ten to post in is very hard.

This isn't directed at anyone in particular, but in order for a community to be a good community, you have to give as well as take. We're merely asking you to give a bit back in return for free delivery on orders you're placing at Scan.
SteveyG 29th June 2007, 21:40 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorquis
I can see all sides, one thing I have noticed is it gets you looking at topics that previously were in other sections. but again it just looks like a complete mess, and also what's the point in bunching the for sale/wanted forums, I'm in the UK, why do I need to look at the US stuff, and if I wanted to filter it then I have to read the sale, the wanted etc separately

Plus I know that even though all the topic icons are meant to be all "of the community" but, it's as if I've been caught in a interweb-time-warp and gone back to 1998 and a whole world of random naff looking animated gifs etc, whilst at the same time there's this really cool quick reply thing that works apparently entirely on pixie dust and blue smoke!

Personally I'd like the option of having cascaded forum display or like this. There's too much change going on in the England as it is... Brown? Smokefree? Bit-Tech? I cannae take eet cap'n I CANNAE TAKE EET!!!

Lol. Agreed. The grouping of topics doesn't seem right, and topics disappear off the page way too quick! Separate the electronics forum please!!

The 'reply to thread' page also doesn't fill the screen properly.
Gravemind123 29th June 2007, 21:43 Quote
I have to agree with the above comments on the groupings. Hardware and Software together is a bit much, maybe make seperate software and hardware forums? Just my current opinion though, I'm sure I'll get used to it in time. The Scan thing is cool, too bad I'm not in the UK.
kickarse 29th June 2007, 21:46 Quote
Reminds me of the SA forums...

So instead of some 30 forums we have 50 confusing tags! Nice!
eek 29th June 2007, 21:55 Quote
I think part of the problem is the icons.

Looks aside, some of the categories overlap. Take the new 'art & photography' section, you have 'how to', 'ask a question', 'help' and 'n00b' for example... also, what is the point in the 'photoshop' category, it's such a niche area it just seems a bit silly. My guess is that is only exists as the icon is pretty swish (especially compared to some of them) so you just wanted to make sure it was used :p
Hugo.B 29th June 2007, 21:55 Quote
Quote:
Following a post by Tim in General, why not implement a subscriber system, where us subscribers pay and get certain features in return (delete posts, fewer ads, etc.).
Hell, I'd gladly pay.
Get adblock plus for Firefox.
Nothing gets past 'cept javascript, and that can be dealt with noscript.


H.B.
KMS-oul 29th June 2007, 21:58 Quote
Me no like :(
dragon2309 29th June 2007, 21:59 Quote
I'm going to be brutally honest, i don't like it at all. I'm all for change and progression but this has gone backwards so much its almost unbearable...

The tags idea, possibly a good idea but the use of images is a bad thing, having so many is also a bad thing. Having a mix up of all of those tiny little thumbnails on a big list of threads makes it look to busy and very messy. Also, having the elctronics threads in the modding section is a daft idea... What happens if i have a question about how to replace a fuse insisde a piece of equipment, it has nothing to do with modding but it will still be in the main "Modding" thread list if no filters are applied (which by default they arent)

Don't get me wrong, I'm not going to stop coming here, its a nice place with people who really know their stuff, but IMO this was a really bad decision. I read through the first 2 pages of replies and people liked it, so maybe its just me, but i quite honestly think its awful. Sorry

dragon2309
Tyinsar 29th June 2007, 22:02 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by BioSniper
...The new colour schemes I find very hard to read. The "light" is far too bright and gives me eye strain after about 5 mins of reading and the Dark.. well.. The black text blends into the background too much. Obviously that's an eye sight thing but I would really appreciate bit-retro dark coming back as that's the only colour scheme I could read...
+1 :(

On the other hand, I Really like the "View Post" thing

As for the smileys, could do without the cigarette and a few like hardly ever get used but all in all they are ok.
specofdust 29th June 2007, 22:04 Quote
Well, I didn't like it at first. But I figured that because the team had put in a lot of work on it that I'd give it a shot for a few hours and see whether the improvements outweighed and negatives - and they do. I love the in-page quick post and editing. I'm not sure about the colour scheme yet, I think at night in a darkened room I'd probably prefer the old one, but really I think the best solution would simply be to add the old default one as a secondary option and to keep this one as default. The tags are kinda cool, although time will tell whether they're all that useful. Overall, I think this is a positive move.
yodasarmpit 29th June 2007, 22:08 Quote
I'm getting more used to the navigation, and I like the image tags, the more you browse the forum the more you get used to which tag represents which forum.
I think some forum still need to be split, but all in all the forum looks nice and given a little time I'm sure we will all conform :D
Mister_Tad 29th June 2007, 22:09 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugo.B
Get adblock plus for Firefox.
Nothing gets past 'cept javascript, and that can be dealt with noscript.


H.B.

The ads here are very unintrusive and I often find them quite handy, this is one of the few places I have ever clicked an ad. Not blocking them helps support bit-tech, so what is so wrong with having an ad or two on the page?
Ramble 29th June 2007, 22:09 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugo.B
Get adblock plus for Firefox.
Nothing gets past 'cept javascript, and that can be dealt with noscript.


H.B.

Well, I use Opera, which has Adblock built in, but some of us care about Bit-tech, so I never block the ads here because I know that'll be draining money from these guys to free up some unused pixels on my monitor.
padrejones2001 29th June 2007, 22:11 Quote
I'm not the biggest fan, either. I think there's way too much consolidation, especially in what used to be the 4 general forums. I think that was a bad idea. Then, combining what used to be some of the Bits sections was not the best idea, either. Way too many new threads, way too hard to keep track of.
Hugo.B 29th June 2007, 22:23 Quote
Quote:
...so what is so wrong with having an ad or two on the page?
Nothing, I just didn't turn adblock off for B-T when I first found the site.
But since you have reminded me of it, I probably will as they aren't annoying.


H.B.
jakenbake 29th June 2007, 22:25 Quote
if you're going to keep these tag things, get rid of the hideous graphics and make it something that I can read without staring at it for 15 minutes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveyG
Separate the electronics forum please!!

no kidding.
jezmck 29th June 2007, 22:30 Quote
Like the concept, but...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smilodon
...Edit: colors in tags are ok, but they should be uniform in their style. (at least the text should be in the same place on all of them )...
+1 - basically the text needs to be bigger
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyinsar
...As for the smileys, could do without the cigarette...
+1

And how do you unselect a filter? i don't think it's possible :(
hobbs 29th June 2007, 22:36 Quote
To any of the admins, can we please put this up to a vote? This gives me the same feeling when steam put ads into cs, they didnt ask they just did it, they got complaints about it but they dont do anything about it.
ComputerKing 29th June 2007, 22:49 Quote
Guys It's better but the deadly thing that the stuff deleted the sections... the Icon thing is better but this is new thing so we not used :(

like I said more Similes and some action this will be better :D

Good luck guys
The_Beast 29th June 2007, 22:57 Quote
oooo I like it

The little icons are coo
cool_dude 29th June 2007, 23:10 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbs
To any of the admins, can we please put this up to a vote? This gives me the same feeling when steam put ads into cs, they didnt ask they just did it, they got complaints about it but they dont do anything about it.

You just took the words out of my mouth, literally.

Not taking any action. +1 for the call on the vote - clearly people aren't liking it and no amount of time is going to change that. There is no give it time, sorry but I tried to get used to it but its just one big forum crammed into like 8 areas (or whatever it is) and it just looks rubbish IMHO.

Deffo call for a vote.
oddball walking 29th June 2007, 23:22 Quote
I must say I am getting used too the new layout the tags are also growing on me overall I like it, well done ;)
mikeuk2004 29th June 2007, 23:30 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim S
The general concensus seems to be that people would like to see postcount and the reasons given so far have all been very valid. I've asked Jamie to turn them back on... they should be back soon. :)


Great stuff, Good call.
cjmUK 29th June 2007, 23:38 Quote
I do think there are some good improvements... but the fundamentals have changed - and it's not good.

On balance, I'd forfeit the new trappings that I like to go back to the old forum. I'm not against change, but not change for the sake of change.

To much of this wasn't thought out properly. Add rather remove the Bling and improve usability and function.

A poll sounds like a good idea, but I'm not sure how it would be accomplished. We need more than an old vs new. I'm sure we'd all like some of the new features to remain, but we need a way of determining which features proved a hit and ehich didn't.
Rocket733 29th June 2007, 23:39 Quote
Having gone through the whole "I like the old style better" thing with the last forum change I'd just like to ask everyone to give it a shot with an open mind for a week or two. Being on top requires change and Bit-tech realizes this so give them a chance so they can keep being number one.
Fr4nk 29th June 2007, 23:40 Quote
Tbh, you all need to lighten up ! Instead of saying "I don't like it, bla bla bla" give it a chance for a couple of days, try and use the new features instead of bluntly saying "Zomg Change it back..." I came on this afternoon to find a completely new forum layout, (heck, I thought I was on a diff' site ) but I like the concept I've already started posting in places I wouldn't usually.

Though I do agree on the tags, they need to be more uni-form and a the yellow glow, ewwww, maybe there could be different types of tags eg; image set 1, image set 2 and text ?
cool_dude 29th June 2007, 23:41 Quote
My only argument, is why the all of a sudden cramming of all the topics?

Why couldnt bit-tech just upgrade the style, and leave the entire layout on the main forum page the same?

Thats what I cant see, its too crammed to see anything, and navigation is a nightmare.

Otherwise I dont see anything wrong with the actual upgrade, just some new stuffs etc. The main problem for me (and quite a few) is the weird idea of cramming! Like the For Sale section, bring back the UK and USA sub sections - WHAT IS THE POINT in putting the two together? Just to use them fancy new little icons? Cant you make the sub-directories and still use them if thats the case, its really annoying... just little stuff like that !
ChriX 29th June 2007, 23:50 Quote
Any chance of the old style being a choice in user CP as per last time? I really don't get the benefit of cramming things together (e.g. US and UK for sale in one place as above).
oddball walking 29th June 2007, 23:59 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChriX
Any chance of the old style being a choice in user CP as per last time? I really don't get the benefit of cramming things together (e.g. US and UK for sale in one place as above).

Just us the filters.
SteveyG 30th June 2007, 00:02 Quote
The filters should be visible at all times instead of having to expand them every time you enter a forum.
dragon2309 30th June 2007, 00:07 Quote
Exactly, in my opinion the staff have tried to put too much into one space, when it was fine the way it was... ESPECIALLY the electronics and the general modding forums... they dont go together at all... The old style, even if you did have to scroll for 2 minutes to reach the end of all the sections on the forum index, gave everything its own place and it was easily "usable" because you could tell where everything is... With this new one, you have to sort of guess for the first couple of times as to where the section might have been placed. Then you have to sit there reading through some badly designed images (obviously in a rush to get this update out the door?) filter the mass gathering of threads you have found down to which ones you want to see... and then go and scroll through and find the one you want...

IMO there was no need for such a drastic change, and expecially no need for one that goes backwards in terms of development of usability, an interface that works but was a little outdated has just been replaced with one that doesnt work how you would expect it to but looks a bit prettier... The staff could have cut down a lot of work and bother if they just tidied up the sections a bit (not nuked a whole lot of them) and then applied a newer up to date forum theme, a bit like this one but without all the added crap.

I know I'm not alone if i start speaking about usability and efficeincy, people are in a rush these days, they dont want to search and filter through thousands of threads to find what they want, they also dont want to have to learn a new system if they come here for the first time through google, they want to point, click, open and read, then be away and gone in just as quick. First rule fo systems development "You don't ever have to reinvent the wheel" guess what BT... i think you just tried to

dragon2309
ch424 30th June 2007, 00:09 Quote
Ooooh, it's all web 2.0 and tagged rather than using folders as it was before. That's great if you know what you're looking for, but if you're just browsing it's terrible. I like all the quick quote features etc. but this is another vote against the cramming of forums. Also, regardless of if it was a community effort or not, the icons are ugly, inconsistent and hard to read.

Someone here has "if it's not broke, fix it 'til it is" as their signature. That's what this looks like.
Shadowed_fury 30th June 2007, 00:12 Quote
Wow, free delivery at Scan. Nice :D
Fr4nk 30th June 2007, 00:12 Quote
Imo, the concept of "cramming" the forum together is stimulate and give you, the poster a larger varitity, over my time at Bit, I've found myself break away from hardware and overclocking, moving into video cards and then mainly lingering in the (very quite) extreme cooling forum, cramming these forums together forces you to view the other threads/forums you may not usually look into, which helps to broaden our forum views, creating a larger community atmosphere. I believe this is what the staff at Bit were looking to achieve, rather than having us all in our own forum, secluded from the rest...

After all variety is the spice of life ^^
Smilodon 30th June 2007, 00:16 Quote
i just noticed the icons used under this sub-forum. They look good. Simple, and easily recognizable.

I'm starting to get used to this new layout now. Still think the general section could be more divided. (especially electronics.)
jezmck 30th June 2007, 00:49 Quote
bit-tech staff (Jamie?), I guess you just did something (the forum was offline for a while), what was it?
EDIT: other than using my new version of ?
cjmUK 30th June 2007, 01:00 Quote
Fr4nk... I know where stuff is... If I want to take an interest in extreme cooling I can do it without BT ramming it down my throat.

The whole episode just smacks of Olympic logo, except that no-one is even £400,00 quid richer...
Tim S 30th June 2007, 01:12 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by ch424
Someone here has "if it's not broke, fix it 'til it is" as their signature. That's what this looks like.

Actually, we have plenty of data to say that the old style was broken. Things were far too diluted and that meant there were some sections of the forum barely getting a hundred posts a month. That, to me, is a waste of space on the forum index, no matter how interesting the topic might be.

What I can say now is that we're taking feedback on board regarding the number of forums but those changes won't just happen overnight. Also fwiw, multi-filtering is a feature that several of us have requested in the office too.

Finally, having a vote right now won't really solve anything because people aren't even giving the forum a chance. It'd be the same as if we'd had a vote for reverting the site back to its old design when we changed that - those frightened of change would obviously vote against it. However, some of those people that were very vocally against the new site have actually said that they really like the design and everything made sense... it just took them some time to get used to.

Of course, there are some flaws right now, and yes are aware of a lot of them now thanks to your feedback, but the changes aren't just going to happen at the click of my fingers. We'll be drawing up a list early next week and then decide on the next course of action then.
Firehed 30th June 2007, 01:15 Quote
Egads, too bright! I was using Bit classic and was almost blinded by the sheer color change.

But I got that sorted quickly. Now to reorient myself...

AJAXey edit is nice :)
Nath 30th June 2007, 01:17 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjmUK
Fr4nk... I know where stuff is... If I want to take an interest in extreme cooling I can do it without BT ramming it down my throat.
How dare bit-tech make you come to their forum and read their content. HOW DARE THEY.

Everyone said this sort of thing when bit v4 was launched and the site went all pro, yet the same people love the site as it is now. The same thing will happen within a fortnight imho.
JADS 30th June 2007, 01:32 Quote
This is awful can we at least have the option to have it as it was?

Truly dire, so bad I am thinking of quitting the forums.
yodasarmpit 30th June 2007, 01:36 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by JADS
This is awful can we at least have the option to have it as it was?

Truly dire, so bad I am thinking of quitting the forums.
Things change, some for the good, some for the bad, but I don't think the bad is worth leaving for.
boiled_elephant 30th June 2007, 01:37 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fr4nk
cramming these forums together forces you to view the other threads/forums you may not usually look into, which helps to broaden our forum views, creating a larger community atmosphere.

This is very true - my knee-jerk reaction was, indeed, "Zomg! Change it back!" but thinking about it, I WAS spending way too long rutted into one particular forum or another. Maybe this'll make it easier to browse, rather than harder.

But finding threads you've posted on before is horrible now.
Tim S 30th June 2007, 01:41 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nath
How dare bit-tech make you come to their forum and read their content. HOW DARE THEY.

I don't think it's quite like that at all. As I've already said, there were a hell of a lot of forums that we were considering dropping completely (due to lack of activity - we don't control activity, it's the community speaking there...). We decided that this solution was the best of both worlds because those forums have stayed (albeit as a tag) and the forum index has been pruned.

HOWEVER, as I keep saying, we are going to be making tweaks based on the feedback from this thread - everyone expects those tweaks to be done five minutes ago though and unfortunately, reality chimes in and these things don't just happen in an instant.
yodasarmpit 30th June 2007, 01:44 Quote
The only forum I feel that is now without a home is serious discussion, it's a slower forum than general and now gets lost in amongst the multitude of light posts.
I still feel this is deserving of it's own category, otherwise it feels like dumbing down.
LVMike 30th June 2007, 01:44 Quote
My initial reaction was as follows.

I liked the old style better. Its hard for me to find threads on just water cooling or phase, which was the original reason I was attracted to the site. I think that having too few sections is just as bad as having too many. Now i feel that some of the more specialized content that was found in the old forums has been lost in the new less categorized layout. I believe that collapsing the threads down too only a few headings and doing away with the easier to navigate and more topic oriented threads has made the forum far less useful for me, and will have me looking to other forum sites first before I turn to the Bit-tech forums to find the information I am seeking.


NOW...
After playing with the forums more. and learning how this tagging think works. I think that the tagging needs to be better explained to site visitors, who are looking for individual sections. At first i didn't understand how it worked. Now that i have had some time to play around with it, it makes more scene to me, and i can see myself getting to like it. But it is such a departure from the way the site was and how most forums are traditionally set up that it is going to have a bit of a curve to get use to. I could learn to like it in time.

I do like that you are willing to change and update the forums rather than resting on your laurels.
pendragon 30th June 2007, 02:04 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim S
Actually, we have plenty of data to say that the old style was broken. Things were far too diluted and that meant there were some sections of the forum barely getting a hundred posts a month. That, to me, is a waste of space on the forum index, no matter how interesting the topic might be.

What I can say now is that we're taking feedback on board regarding the number of forums but those changes won't just happen overnight. Also fwiw, multi-filtering is a feature that several of us have requested in the office too.

Finally, having a vote right now won't really solve anything because people aren't even giving the forum a chance. It'd be the same as if we'd had a vote for reverting the site back to its old design when we changed that - those frightened of change would obviously vote against it. However, some of those people that were very vocally against the new site have actually said that they really like the design and everything made sense... it just took them some time to get used to.

Of course, there are some flaws right now, and yes are aware of a lot of them now thanks to your feedback, but the changes aren't just going to happen at the click of my fingers. We'll be drawing up a list early next week and then decide on the next course of action then.

Thanks for the info, Tim! Also, good news about the multi-filters ;)
kbates666 30th June 2007, 02:07 Quote
I was ok with the new style until I went to the tech support forum. Why are there no filters for networking, hardware, etc. as was in the old style?
Lorquis 30th June 2007, 02:11 Quote
I may just be being a tad thick but, where's the av forum contained now, same for the apple forum...
Tim S 30th June 2007, 02:12 Quote
LVMike: We're working on a guide that should be up later this weekend (I hope!). It's being written by one of us that isn't a heavy forum user, so it should hopefully be more user-friendly than if it was written by someone like me or Rich, because we're very active forum goers. Unfortunately that got delayed by some other things taking precedence, while at the same time the forum rollout got pushed forwards.
cjmUK 30th June 2007, 02:13 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nath
How dare bit-tech make you come to their forum and read their content. HOW DARE THEY.

WTF? Who do *you* think should determine what I read and what I don't?

Imagine going to Tesco and having them force you down the dog food isle, even though you haven't got a dog and don't want one.

Why the drive encourage new posts and merge quiet forums? Because traffic equals advertising revenue. Plus a vibrant and active forum is a happy forum. Right?

But by buggering about too much you can quite happily foul the 'ambience' of the forums. Am I inclined to post more? If they got rid of the bling filter images I'd be happier to take a look. But with too many posts on different subjects clumped together I'm going to have a hard time finding the stuff I'm interested in.

'But you can use the filtering..' Perhaps if it works... But now I have to got to much more effort to get the topics I'm interested in.

And say I like PC Gaming.. so I filter by that. But then I miss out on Polls. So I then click on Polls, but then I've got console polls alongside... and so the goose-chase continues.

The answer to claim that it's throwing too much disparate stuff together, we get told...use the filtering... but if that is the case, why reduce the forums from 50 to a dozen? Why not have one big forum but rely entirely on filtering?

The reason we had so many sub forums was because our members were interested in so many different topics. Perhaps one or two could be combined if that were appropriate, but not to this scale.

Tim says that certain forums had a much lower level of traffic than others. So what? It doesn't cost anything to maintain that forum. How does lumping it in with unrelated stuff help?

There are 28 filters in Hardware & Software - that's a dozen old forums rolled into one. And that is meant to achieve what? Ironically, H&S doesn't include electronics but does cover audio and video. Why have separate filters for DCD, HD DVD and BluRay?

Some forums have a Request filter. Unless I have a request to make, why would I choose that filter? In the H&S forum, does the requests filter cover requests about TVs, coding techniques and Mac issues? Why? Surely if I post a request under this filter, it will get missed because no-one is specifically going to filter this way. In the old forums, a request would have been in amongst other posts of a similar nature.

The same argument can be said for Noob and Help filters.

The list is endless. I could go on all night.

I'm not sure who is responsible for this, and to be honest, I don't want to point the finger. But I suspect this 'upgrade' has been a classic definition of groupthink. Did the team behind this really not anticipate these problems.

I'm all for the improve functionality (like multiple quotes) and the modified chrome, but this filtering mechanism is pure folly.

And yes we will get used to it. But no, that doesn't mean it is any good. It will simply be cushioned by most peoples loyalty to BT.

The ultimate irony it that we have dozens of professional (web) application developers (like myself ); any of them could have advised on usability issues. Many have experience of big launches, and plenty know about business cases and requirements gathering. It still seems that some of these changes have been done because they could be, rather than they fulfil some sort of need.

I'm worried that this change will become a matter of principle for BT. The changes require to make it work will require a lot of effort and and equal amount of back-tracking, and it just ain't gonna happen. :(
MaximumShow 30th June 2007, 02:32 Quote
I must be honest and say that the new layout is very counter intuitive and also opposes the logic behind the reason for the change. As someone stated earlier, you replaced 37 forum categories, with dozens and dozens of filters.

37 categories is by no means a lot if it means you can quickly do the following:

1. Check for a new thread in a category just by scrolling down the main page.

2. Focus on the info you want. There are some forums that I never go in because the topic does not interest me, which means I do not want those threads mixed in with the "good" stuff. I don't see a way of subtracting a filter, so I either see it mixed in with the "good" stuff, or I have to pick a filter which is super specific, and do this 3-4 times to see only what I want. A good example of this is in the HW & SW forum. If I want to look at what used to be the the Audio/Video forum, I now have to click at least 5 filters instead of just going to one forum. But I can't click all 5 and see them all at once... no I have to look at tv, then A/V, dvd, hd, and blu-ray. And once I click said filters, there may or may not be any new thread or posts... I have no way of knowing before I enter, as opposed to previously. When you add all the extra clicks, and pages, and time up it becomes VERY annoying.

It can be argued that the new layout makes it easier to find a specific thread you have prior knowledge of and are searching for, but it is absolutely horrid for someone who is browsing for both old or new content. 37 concise forums are MUCH clearer for navigating purposes (especially seeing as how they were grouped with similar categories, with dividers between the groups), than 10 cluttered and cram packed forums.

I'm sure most current BT users will be able to adapt, as they know what categories existed previously. However, I believe that any new comers will be put off instantly as the new system is too cumbersome when the person does not know where to go/what to do.

I appreciate the effort, but IMO the new structure is fundamentally flawed, which means that no amount of time will really change my mind.
Jamie 30th June 2007, 02:35 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjmUK
WTF? Who do *you* think should determine what I read and what I don't?

Imagine going to Tesco and having them force you down the dog food isle, even though you haven't got a dog and don't want one.

Why the drive encourage new posts and merge quiet forums? Because traffic equals advertising revenue. Plus a vibrant and active forum is a happy forum. Right?

But by buggering about too much you can quite happily foul the 'ambience' of the forums. Am I inclined to post more? If they got rid of the bling filter images I'd be happier to take a look. But with too many posts on different subjects clumped together I'm going to have a hard time finding the stuff I'm interested in.

'But you can use the filtering..' Perhaps if it works... But now I have to got to much more effort to get the topics I'm interested in.

And say I like PC Gaming.. so I filter by that. But then I miss out on Polls. So I then click on Polls, but then I've got console polls alongside... and so the goose-chase continues.

The answer to claim that it's throwing too much disparate stuff together, we get told...use the filtering... but if that is the case, why reduce the forums from 50 to a dozen? Why not have one big forum but rely entirely on filtering?

The reason we had so many sub forums was because our members were interested in so many different topics. Perhaps one or two could be combined if that were appropriate, but not to this scale.

Tim says that certain forums had a much lower level of traffic than others. So what? It doesn't cost anything to maintain that forum. How does lumping it in with unrelated stuff help?

There are 28 filters in Hardware & Software - that's a dozen old forums rolled into one. And that is meant to achieve what? Ironically, H&S doesn't include electronics but does cover audio and video. Why have separate filters for DCD, HD DVD and BluRay?

Some forums have a Request filter. Unless I have a request to make, why would I choose that filter? In the H&S forum, does the requests filter cover requests about TVs, coding techniques and Mac issues? Why? Surely if I post a request under this filter, it will get missed because no-one is specifically going to filter this way. In the old forums, a request would have been in amongst other posts of a similar nature.

The same argument can be said for Noob and Help filters.

The list is endless. I could go on all night.

I'm not sure who is responsible for this, and to be honest, I don't want to point the finger. But I suspect this 'upgrade' has been a classic definition of groupthink. Did the team behind this really not anticipate these problems.

I'm all for the improve functionality (like multiple quotes) and the modified chrome, but this filtering mechanism is pure folly.

And yes we will get used to it. But no, that doesn't mean it is any good. It will simply be cushioned by most peoples loyalty to BT.

The ultimate irony it that we have dozens of professional (web) application developers (like myself ); any of them could have advised on usability issues. Many have experience of big launches, and plenty know about business cases and requirements gathering. It still seems that some of these changes have been done because they could be, rather than they fulfil some sort of need.

I'm worried that this change will become a matter of principle for BT. The changes require to make it work will require a lot of effort and and equal amount of back-tracking, and it just ain't gonna happen. :(

You make some good points, I will discuss these with the team on Monday.
pendragon 30th June 2007, 02:38 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjmUK
The answer to claim that it's throwing too much disparate stuff together, we get told...use the filtering... but if that is the case, why reduce the forums from 50 to a dozen? Why not have one big forum but rely entirely on filtering?

Hmm.. interesting theory... I'm guessing that maybe then you'd end up with just too many new posts from so many areas that you'd lose them off the page really fast?.. but that is an interesting idea.. one giant forum with multi-filters
Nath 30th June 2007, 03:05 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim S
I don't think it's quite like that at all. As I've already said, there were a hell of a lot of forums that we were considering dropping completely (due to lack of activity - we don't control activity, it's the community speaking there...). We decided that this solution was the best of both worlds because those forums have stayed (albeit as a tag) and the forum index has been pruned.
My point wasn't necessarily that users shouldn't have any input in it, it's just slightly annoying hearing everyone complaining about a relatively small change. If you want to find useful information on the forums, you can find it just as effectively now as you could with the subforums, just in a slightly different manner.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjmUK
WTF? Who do *you* think should determine what I read and what I don't?

Imagine going to Tesco and having them force you down the dog food isle, even though you haven't got a dog and don't want one.

Why the drive encourage new posts and merge quiet forums? Because traffic equals advertising revenue. Plus a vibrant and active forum is a happy forum. Right?

I'm worried that this change will become a matter of principle for BT. The changes require to make it work will require a lot of effort and and equal amount of back-tracking, and it just ain't gonna happen. :(
It's your own choice what you read and what you don't. However, I think getting your knickers in a twist because ZOMG SUBFORUMS ARE GONE is slightly melodramatic. Having more traffic to a certain genre of post (such as gaming, modding etc.) will just introduce more people to what's on offer, which can only be a good thing. Then, if they don't like it, they're free to choose another filter. :p
Brooxy 30th June 2007, 03:37 Quote
The forum itself looks cleaner, but the navigation will take some getting used to. To be honest, for at least the navigation, this thread needs a poll
notatoad 30th June 2007, 03:43 Quote
i really like the new layout. not so much on the theme, all the gradients feel very different to the blocky solid colors of the main site.

also, i would prefer that the hardware&software forum were split up into hardware and software forums, those two are very different categories and the threads don't really fit together. (and there's too many stickies in there)

oh, and cooling should be part of modding not hardware.
311Sam 30th June 2007, 04:23 Quote
I would really really like to see the electronics section separate again..... This *was* one of the few forums on the net that had a dedicated section to electronics talk. That is actually what drew me to this place. Please bring that back :'(:(

Sorry to complain.
completemadness 30th June 2007, 05:01 Quote
its certainly different, i will give you that

if i prefer it, not 100% sure yet

vbulliten3 seems to have gone very much the web2.0 direction, and I'm not sure if that's we want, sure it looks pretty, but often it just causes more hassle, and its slower

But i haven't really used it much, and you haven't finished tweaking it, so before i say i hate it, ill give it a few weeks, hell often people just don't like change
sallad 30th June 2007, 05:02 Quote
I don't post here often but I sure do like it!
hobbs 30th June 2007, 06:52 Quote
ok, after being on the forums all day i still dont like it, its just too cluttered. Next time if your going to make a big change like this, host it on a www2. and ask for feedback fix it then roll it out. Newegg has done this a fiew times and they got very good feedback. Once again i really like the mods and admins of BT to put up a pole. It is the people who visit this forum who has to use it like this, so let them speak, put up a vote. The old style was perfect, altho somethings could be combined to make it more streamlined. But now we have to filter if we want to find something we like to read about. Personally i think the filters are very inefficient. And for gods sake please make the forsale forums into 2 sub forums. I really dont see why you guys wont put up a vote, The way you navigate around the forums wont change, and most people will still not like it. Let the people speak and listen to them!!
Gravemind123 30th June 2007, 07:07 Quote
Gotta agree with hobbs on that test it out for feedback thing, or maybe do some sort of gradual change, instead of just springing all sorts of new stuff at once. It's much easier to accept slow change then radical sudden change. I'm not sure what exactly is the advantage of filters over subforums to be honest. If people want to be exposed to new stuff then they will, they won't suddenly all start looking at a new topic because it's near their old topics, they will probably just get pissed they even have to look see it. I suppose it's just something to try and get used to, but I'm not sure if filters really will do any better job then subforums.
Colonel Sanders 30th June 2007, 07:17 Quote
I like the idea of having filters, and I will agree that the old main-page had a few too many different sub-sections, however going from one extreme to another is simply not cool.

I can understand combining the windows, linux, apple and development section and using tags - but putting about 20 forums togother into "hard-ware and software"? No. . .

As for usability, how is this a benefit? I mean now when I want to look for a topic about Windows, I have to first click hard-ware and software, then click the show filters, then click on the filter for Windows. Quite honestly, the extra click to show the filters really annoys me, but what I find more annoying is the fancy look to every filter and the sheer number of filters!

Another thing I find annoying are the new quote and quick-reply buttons - they just don't fit in. I also feel the color scheme is waaay to bright and has too many gradients. Granted I think everyone hates when the forum gets a new color scheme but this one change. . .

L J
Cthippo 30th June 2007, 07:39 Quote
I've been usiong it a lot all day and it's just not growing on me. With the old system I could, at a glance, see what was new in a lot of different forums from the front page. With this change I can only see what's new in a few. What Tim sees as a negative, a lot of smaller forums with not much traffic I find to be desireable. Also, polls should not be a filter. A poll is a tool, not a de-facto subforum.

The biggest thing that bugs me is that most of the time I only need to see one forum, Serious Discussion. if I'm reading a thread there I have to go back and look at the entire general mess, then select the filter again. Ok, it's one more step, but one more step how many times a day?
LVMike 30th June 2007, 07:49 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim S
LVMike: We're working on a guide that should be up later this weekend (I hope!). It's being written by one of us that isn't a heavy forum user, so it should hopefully be more user-friendly than if it was written by someone like me or Rich, because we're very active forum goers. Unfortunately that got delayed by some other things taking precedence, while at the same time the forum rollout got pushed forwards.

cool beans.
Tyinsar 30th June 2007, 08:44 Quote
<--- Thank You
Pookeyhead 30th June 2007, 09:16 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatOldOne
buglet in filtering?

I went to the General section, filtered on Motors. Couldn't find the thread I wanted as it was posted over a week ago. Used dropdown at base of page to increase the timespan, clicked on show threads... but once it had retrieved the new block of threads the filtering had been removed. Reapplied filter, only to get a weeks worth. Repeat in endless loop...


Not sure if that's been fixed, or whether it's just like that for you, but check again. By default mine is set to "from beginning" anyway.
specofdust 30th June 2007, 09:36 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyinsar
<--- Thank You

But why? Smoking was part of his hipness :(

Bloody facists....
DAE_JA_VOO 30th June 2007, 09:40 Quote
I just hate those little pictures next to the thread types. You know "Project" or "Windows", those little pics. They make the forum look incredibly messy.
cool_dude 30th June 2007, 10:43 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim S

Finally, having a vote right now won't really solve anything because people aren't even giving the forum a chance.

There you go again. Just doing what you want, not listening to any feedback given. The forum doesn't need tweaks (ok maybe it does) but to stop the majority of the complaints could you unclutter it all back to its original?

Why would people want to be forced into Topics so that they may read, what benefit is that going to get? Time is no aid here, its a right pain in the *** to get used to, and belive me I have tried. Now you guys dont seem to be reading these complaints and just ignoring them because you guys at bit-tech think its good. Whats the point in asking for feedback? You're not doing anything. How many people have said they hate how squashed up all the forusm are? I think if you cant un-cram the current situaution, at least offer us another style where we can revert back to the original so the people who like it stay with this and the people who dont revert back. All in all I like the forum upgrades, ok the little images I need to get used to, but the cramming on the forum... what the hell is that all about? If there simply wasn't enough posts in one section, why not vote to close it down? Why make all the other threads be bundled up with each other?

All in all, the good things are the forum change, nice little face lift. The bad side is the bunched up forums, if you could un-do that and make it how it was I'm sure alot more people would be happy again, including me.

Hopefully someone from the Bit-tech staff reads this post, and doesn't skate over it.
The_Pope 30th June 2007, 10:52 Quote
It's not being skated over mate - don't worry. bit-tech staff have a keen interest in the comments being posted here. And feedback is not being ignored. However, cries to "switch it back" are being measured, over time, against the benefits of the new system. Most people resist change and given the amount of research and work that has gone into the forum restructure, we're not about to bin it within 12 hours just because a few people say they prefer the old method.

If the overall consensus is against the new layout then of course we will take action. But we need to work through the fear-of-the-unknown period before making any further changes. Does that make sense?
The_Pope 30th June 2007, 10:53 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pookeyhead
Not sure if that's been fixed, or whether it's just like that for you, but check again. By default mine is set to "from beginning" anyway.

This has been fixed now, yes. We're working on further improvements to the tagging system to allow for increased flexibility.
specofdust 30th June 2007, 11:16 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by cool dude
Time is no aid here

You say, after what? 24 hours tops? Tim said they're going to let the changes sink in for a week, it's not that long to have to deal with what are changes that don't affect the forum all that hugely imo. Methinks far too many people have taken one look at it and thought "I don't like it" and then that's their viewpoint and they're not going to change it.
heir flick 30th June 2007, 11:31 Quote
sorry dont like it too many threads all mixed up and looks messy, on the old style if i wanted to read threads on graphics cards it was easy to find but now there all over the place
jakenbake 30th June 2007, 11:54 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveyG
The filters should be visible at all times instead of having to expand them every time you enter a forum.

exactly, i don't even use that drop down menu b/c it never stays expanded. i scroll until i find a thread with the ever-so-hard-to-see picture next to it
Smilodon 30th June 2007, 11:57 Quote
IMO some people here are a bit unfair to the BT staff. Give it a chance, people!

anyway, maybe some of the sticky threads could be merged somehow? it looks a bit strange to have two "useful links" threads in one subforum. (if there is to many sticky threads things will look more cluttered). maybe try to reduce it down to 3 or 4?
bixie_62 30th June 2007, 12:01 Quote
Hi

I'm liking the new layout, but would be great to see one extra little feature thrown in:

FEEDBACK!!!!! some sort of seller rating scheme, similar to that at forums.pcper.com, where people who buy and sell on the forums can build up some form of feedback, it would greatly help those younger members of the forums who are looking to buy but the seller is wary of the seller because they can only do cash or some other form of payment.

otherwise, im liking the new layout! gna take a bit of getting used to though!
M3G4 30th June 2007, 12:06 Quote
This feels rather odd. I'm sure I'll get used to the new system, I've been here for yonks and seen various changes, it's all good.

But I can't help feeling I've been in some sort of time warp! lol :)
DougEdey 30th June 2007, 12:11 Quote
I think that there needs to be more filters on the Tech support ones, to break down programming and other things. But other filters like "Poll", "n00b" and so on should be able to be grouped so you can click on one from teh front page and view across all forums.

Things like AV shouldn't be needed any more or use AV and get rid of TV, DVD, HD-DVD, Blu-ray tags.

Also, to show how confusing it can be, the following is a greasemonkey output of all the filters one the main page (I prefer it this way, just need to sort out justifying tags.)

http://img408.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bitfiltersjw4.jpg
simon w 30th June 2007, 12:11 Quote
I'm going to live it a week or so before saying whether I like the change as a whole or not.

Couple of initial questions/points

1) After filtering 'Development' threads, how do I mark just those as being read instead of the whole forum?

2) Searching a forum seems much slower :( . I assume this is just because the forums are much larger now

3) I don't think the filter images sit well within the forum's theme. Keeping to the forum's colours would be better, however given the number of filters, it could be tricky distinguishing between the different filters - a challenge for you :)

4) There seems to be a lot of wasted space on newreply.php. Is that intensional (I hope not) or a rendering bug? click me of a screenshot

Edit: I like the in-thread editting ;)

5) When viewing a thread, how I do know what filter it currently has?
cool_dude 30th June 2007, 12:13 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Pope
It's not being skated over mate - don't worry. bit-tech staff have a keen interest in the comments being posted here. And feedback is not being ignored. However, cries to "switch it back" are being measured, over time, against the benefits of the new system. Most people resist change and given the amount of research and work that has gone into the forum restructure, we're not about to bin it within 12 hours just because a few people say they prefer the old method.

If the overall consensus is against the new layout then of course we will take action. But we need to work through the fear-of-the-unknown period before making any further changes. Does that make sense?

Yes ofcourse it does.

What I am saying is I know how long it must have taken you guys to sucessfully do the forum update. However all I am saying is that the forums are too crammed together. Of course I am not used to the whole new lift yet, as you say I am giving it time for myself to get used to it. The only thing I cant see with time being the aid to this is the actual forum structure - how all of the forums have just been put into main directories and thats it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by specofdust
You say, after what? 24 hours tops? Tim said they're going to let the changes sink in for a week, it's not that long to have to deal with what are changes that don't affect the forum all that hugely imo. Methinks far too many people have taken one look at it and thought "I don't like it" and then that's their viewpoint and they're not going to change it.

Yeh I know, 24 hours isn't enough. I am still getting used to the actual forum style, but the structure... well I cant see how anyone would say its done good. I've never seen a forum like it. Its not a case of "i dont like it" being my only viewpoint, I dont particulary like the new theme going on but I'm willing to give it time and I'm sure it'll grow on me, as will the features. The only thing that I cannot seeing being an aid with time is the actual strucutre. Its manic. It looks as if someone couldnt be bothered and just grouped everything together to get the forum going again - which I know wouldn't have been done but I hope you can see my point here.
Jamie 30th June 2007, 12:18 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by simon w
I'm going to live it a week or so before saying whether I like the change as a whole or not.

Couple of initial questions/points

1) After filtering 'Development' threads, how do I mark just those as being read instead of the whole forum?

2) Searching a forum seems much slower :( . I assume this is just because the forums are much larger now

3) I don't think the filter images sit well within the forum's theme. Keeping to the forum's colours would be better, however given the number of filters, I could be tricky distinguishing between the different filters - a challenge for you :)

4) There seems to be a lot of wasted space on newreply.php. Is that intensional (I hope not) or a rendering bug? click me of a screenshot

2) Search is now done by mysql fulltext rather than using a huge index and word list.

4) That is a bug with firefox which I haven't fixed yet.
Gordy 30th June 2007, 12:27 Quote
Ok, while I like the new theme it looks great the stripping down of the forums and the filters is frankly appalling and unusable. Its like the vbb sub-forum feature which is the quickest way to kill a forum from getting posts as I've ever seen.

I tried checking out the apple forum/filter threads as normal this morning and just gave up bothering. Under the old system you could at least hide forum groups you didn't read so save scrolling down.

I wish I could be positive about it, but I can't.
ultrastapler 30th June 2007, 12:42 Quote
the filter buttons/tags are really garish. text based links would be more in keeping with the design of the rest of the site
Henchman:crg 30th June 2007, 12:45 Quote
okay how do I find the linux section? or an os section? or a software applications section?
this prief version of the old forum isn't doing it for me to the point.
Someone mentioned a filter but I can't find any filter, shouldn't web site design be done in such a way that it is effortless to find what you are looking for?
ozstrike 30th June 2007, 12:47 Quote
Liking the new look, but it seems like the area to the left of posts (where the name/details are) is a lot bigger. I liked it when it was smalller and took up less room.

Edit: love that you no longer have to load a new page upon posting and editing. ;)
dragontail 30th June 2007, 12:48 Quote
Nice eye candy. Personally, I find it difficult to find relevant threads now, because of the forum mergers.
g3n3tiX 30th June 2007, 12:56 Quote
The filter tag buttons (graphics, cooling, etc) could use a better resolution version, so as to be bigger on our big screens and to be more readable (allusion to the sreen size poll^^)
I like it with the dark design though. Great work !!
JADS 30th June 2007, 13:08 Quote
You can keep removing the posts of people who absolutely detest it, but I still hate it.

Can we have the good ole' forums back please? Even as an option?

The filtering system is awful, why can't we just have the different forums listed as before?
Fr4nk 30th June 2007, 13:14 Quote
Well I was going to do the tags but at the time I was too busy with exams etc but this morning I made the tags from the hardware forum in the style of the bit-tech buttons, I was contemplating colour coding them but this what I've done so far:

http://imageshack.us

Imo, this considerably better than the current tags, but if these were colour grouped I think it would look superb, eg "hardware, oc'ing, graphics, displays and cooling" all with blue backgrounds etc.

Thoughts ?

-Fr4nk
cpemma 30th June 2007, 13:16 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie
4) That is a bug with firefox which I haven't fixed yet.
On the reply box size, my Firefox 2.0.0.4 opens reply with the box as simon w's screenshot but it then quickly auto-enlarges to full width. So a "feature" he has set different to me. ;)

Smilies - showing 30 of 37. There's plenty of room for the other 7.
ozstrike 30th June 2007, 13:27 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fr4nk
Well I was going to do the tags but at the time I was too busy with exams etc but this morning I made the tags from the hardware forum in the style of the bit-tech buttons, I was contemplating colour coding them but this what I've done so far:

http://imageshack.us

Imo, this considerably better than the current tags, but if these were colour grouped I think it would look superb, eg "hardware, oc'ing, graphics, displays and cooling" all with blue backgrounds etc.

Thoughts ?

-Fr4nk


That's awesome. I'd much rather have these than the current ones.

Also another thing - I think one thing that makes it look a little cluttered is the fact that you have 2 columns of boxes/images before you get to the thread title. On SA, they don't have that column to the left of the tags, and IMO it looks a lot cleaner.

Edit: Is there any chance of having an option of whether the filter box is hidden by default? I know most people might want it shown by default, but I'd like to have it minimised when I open a forum.
Ramble 30th June 2007, 13:28 Quote
I'm getting more used to it every day (and I like that serious stuff is in general too).
But for God's sake split the hardware forum up, I'm afraid to go in there now because of the sheer number of things consolidated.
heir flick 30th June 2007, 13:38 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by heir flick
sorry dont like it too many threads all mixed up and looks messy, on the old style if i wanted to read threads on graphics cards it was easy to find but now there all over the place

i would like to retract my comments above, after taking the time to look at it properly i found the filter buttons to find what i want doh
Tim S 30th June 2007, 14:04 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by cool_dude
There you go again. Just doing what you want, not listening to any feedback given. The forum doesn't need tweaks (ok maybe it does) but to stop the majority of the complaints could you unclutter it all back to its original?

Why would people want to be forced into Topics so that they may read, what benefit is that going to get? Time is no aid here, its a right pain in the *** to get used to, and belive me I have tried. Now you guys dont seem to be reading these complaints and just ignoring them because you guys at bit-tech think its good. Whats the point in asking for feedback? You're not doing anything. How many people have said they hate how squashed up all the forusm are? I think if you cant un-cram the current situaution, at least offer us another style where we can revert back to the original so the people who like it stay with this and the people who dont revert back. All in all I like the forum upgrades, ok the little images I need to get used to, but the cramming on the forum... what the hell is that all about? If there simply wasn't enough posts in one section, why not vote to close it down? Why make all the other threads be bundled up with each other?

All in all, the good things are the forum change, nice little face lift. The bad side is the bunched up forums, if you could un-do that and make it how it was I'm sure alot more people would be happy again, including me.

Hopefully someone from the Bit-tech staff reads this post, and doesn't skate over it.

You're only quoting the part of my post that suits you and you seem to miss the fact that I said we're taking everyone's feedback on-board with the view to make changes where necessary (that includes the over-culling of the forums - we've already started discussing the ones that should and shouldn't be together). Once we have done that and made the changes suggested by the community, it is then time to ask whether it's hip or not.

So yeah, it's not about what we want, it's about what the community as a whole wants. We've thrown some fairly big changes out in the wild and yes we understand that there will be a resistance to change, but the changes were made on the basis of months of data that we've collected.

The proof is in the pudding though and there has been some very valid feedback so far. So much so that we've already started actioning some of it. For example, post counts weren't there originally, but they're back. The tag filtering selection is now open by default and we're looking at making further changes based on feedback from the members of the community!
DougEdey 30th June 2007, 14:11 Quote
If anyone wants Fr4nks buttons, install greasemonkey and give me a shout, I have a script to change the,m
cool_dude 30th June 2007, 14:11 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim S
You're only quoting the part of my post that suits you and you seem to miss the fact that I said we're taking everyone's feedback on-board with the view to make changes where necessary (that includes the over-culling of the forums - we've already started discussing the ones that should and shouldn't be together). Once we have done that and made the changes suggested by the community, it is then time to ask whether it's hip or not.

So yeah, it's not about what we want, it's about what the community as a whole wants. We've thrown some fairly big changes out in the wild and yes we understand that there will be a resistance to change, but the changes were made on the basis of months of data that we've collected.

The proof is in the pudding though and there has been some very valid feedback so far. So much so that we've already started actioning some of it. For example, post counts weren't there originally, but they're back. The tag filtering selection is now open by default and we're looking at making further changes based on feedback from the members of the community!

I'm quoting the part of your post because it supports my point. Just a poll to see whether my view is valid enough -it seems to be there are quite a few people who have said exactly what I've said.

I dont have a problem with anything else, just the clutteredness. I feel that the cramming is a valid point, the impression I got from your response is as if my point isn't valid enough for the feedback - which it is.

Im glad you guys at bit-tech have been discussing about the placement of the directories, hopefully some changes soon on that front. :).

By the way im not arguing, just trying to give some feedback and put my views across! :D.
Smilodon 30th June 2007, 14:17 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fr4nk
Well I was going to do the tags but at the time I was too busy with exams etc but this morning I made the tags from the hardware forum in the style of the bit-tech buttons, I was contemplating colour coding them but this what I've done so far:

http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/6930/redoen6.png

Imo, this considerably better than the current tags, but if these were colour grouped I think it would look superb, eg "hardware, oc'ing, graphics, displays and cooling" all with blue backgrounds etc.

Thoughts ?

-Fr4nk


just what i had in mind. Maybe some more colors? Using colors to group relevant tags is brilliant, though. ;)
Tim S 30th June 2007, 14:23 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by cool_dude
I'm quoting the part of your post because it supports my point. Just a poll to see whether my view is valid enough -it seems to be there are quite a few people who have said exactly what I've said.

I dont have a problem with anything else, just the clutteredness. I feel that the cramming is a valid point, the impression I got from your response is as if my point isn't valid enough for the feedback - which it is.

Im glad you guys at bit-tech have been discussing about the placement of the directories, hopefully some changes soon on that front. :).

By the way im not arguing, just trying to give some feedback and put my views across! :D.

I understand that you're not arguing and I am not trying to come across like that either.

I'm just trying to get the point across that no matter who is writing the posts and whether they're for or against the new forum layout, we're taking every bit of constructive feedback on-board because ultimately it's about making the experience as good as it can be for you guys and we're trying to encourage people to post more.

As far as I can tell, we've not deleted any posts (apart from some duplicates) from this thread because what is the point in blocking out negative feedback? If we were hiding something, there would be a reason to delete it, but the reason we're not is because there is nothing to hide - we're taking the feedback from the community on board because without the community, this forum wouldn't exist. We're just the catalyst for the community and we're trying a different chemical formula to see what happens. (you know, when an old formula isn't as effective as it should be, so you go in search of a new method and then pull back what is and isn't needed) :)

Also, another reason for the change was that several of the team "don't have the time" to check out forum X, Y or Z yet when you actually do have time to look at those forums, there are some great threads that aren't getting the attention that they deserve. We're trying to give those threads some daylight but as a lot of people have said, our culling looks to be a little aggressive and we're working on a solution to that. The great thing is that we're not going to have a problem moving threads around because we can move threads by tag.
cjmUK 30th June 2007, 14:29 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cthippo
What Tim sees as a negative, a lot of smaller forums with not much traffic I find to be desireable. Also, polls should not be a filter.

[snipped]

if I'm reading a thread there I have to go back and look at the entire general mess, then select the filter again. Ok, it's one more step, but one more step how many times a day?

Seconded... in case anyone is still in doubt about my persona feelings (;))
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smilodon
IMO some people here are a bit unfair to the BT staff. Give it a chance, people!

I've released works of genius which simply hasn't been appreciated by my punters - philistines! And I've released a turkey that I thought looked good on paper, but where I completely misjudged the situation.

So I'm certainly not slagging off and BT staff. I imagine there are a few unhappy bunnies at BT - all this hard work and it's thrown back in their faces.

But as much as I and others are unhappy about some of the fundamentals, let it be clear that we hate the new forums, but we are not asking for heads to roll.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fr4nk
Well I was going to do the tags but at the time I was too busy with exams etc but this morning I made the tags from the hardware forum in the style of the bit-tech buttons, I was contemplating colour coding them but this what I've done so far:

Thoughts ?

While I do think the colour coding is much more acceptable that the images, they are still breaking the same usability rules (somewhat). The coloured category column down the right hand side is still too dominant and the eyes are drawn to them. I would suggest as an improvement a small colour-coded square (ie slightly larger than one character) and next to it in plaintext could be the category name. At a glance you could see the breakdown of categories by colour, but it wouldn't be too distracting and the text would be there as an explicit confirmation of the category. I'm sure there are plenty of other ideas around too.
DarkInferno 30th June 2007, 15:04 Quote
Wow. I'm really in awe to how large a backstep this is.

It both confusing and cluttered.

Could sombody email me if the forums return to normal because it really shouldn't be an effort to have to try to read through a forum, so frankly I won't be bothering.

Thanks, Bye.
Murdoc 30th June 2007, 15:46 Quote
I think the fewer forums is a better idea, the tags need a standardised font though.
Tim S 30th June 2007, 15:51 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjmUK
So I'm certainly not slagging off and BT staff. I imagine there are a few unhappy bunnies at BT - all this hard work and it's thrown back in their faces.

I'm only speaking for myself here, but I'm certainly not unhappy at any of the feedback we've had in this thread. Yes, we've spent some time working on this but I certainly prepared myself for potential changes and with the help of the community, I think the two parties can work as one (none of this us vs. them) and make something good.

The reason this thread is still running is because we care about what the community is saying and ultimately the members are the collective voice that we're listening to.

Quote:
While I do think the colour coding is much more acceptable that the images, they are still breaking the same usability rules (somewhat). The coloured category column down the right hand side is still too dominant and the eyes are drawn to them. I would suggest as an improvement a small colour-coded square (ie slightly larger than one character) and next to it in plaintext could be the category name. At a glance you could see the breakdown of categories by colour, but it wouldn't be too distracting and the text would be there as an explicit confirmation of the category. I'm sure there are plenty of other ideas around too.

That's a very interesting suggestion - I like the idea behind it... we'll have a play and see how it works. :)
will. 30th June 2007, 16:08 Quote
Can we have development back please... It definitely doesn't help when it's lumped in with technical support for computers. At least a tag all of its own.
Tim S 30th June 2007, 16:30 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by will.
Can we have development back please... It definitely doesn't help when it's lumped in with technical support for computers. At least a tag all of its own.

http://forums.bit-tech.net/forumdisplay.php?forumid=30&picon=18

Tag isn't very clear, sorry (we're working on that)! :o
Mankz 30th June 2007, 17:09 Quote
We need the entertainment, news (bbc ect.\0 and the motors area back, aswell as one for electronics aswell.

And then possibly have a seperate section for entertainment, motors, news and general.
needmorstuff 30th June 2007, 17:15 Quote
sorry but i thought it was better before, in the sales forum my eyes cant help but be dominated by the images on the left. and the lag caused by the opening of all the icons (links to other sites) is painful.

if this has already been covered i apologise - i haven't read all the thread.
JADS 30th June 2007, 17:44 Quote
if (true == PrefersForumsPrior())
{
DisplayOldStyle();
}
else
{
DisplayNewStyle();
}

;)?
DougEdey 30th June 2007, 18:02 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by needmorstuff
lag caused by the opening of all the icons (links to other sites) is painful.

What do you mean by other sites? Everything is hosting at Bit's servers.
jakenbake 30th June 2007, 18:53 Quote
thanks for the beginning of the change of the buttons! much more legible! could you do the modding forum now since thats where i spend all my time :D
dom_ 30th June 2007, 19:10 Quote
I have given it time, but for me it now takes longer to do my browsing of this forum than it used to.

I am only here for the a/v, general and entertainment side occasionally browsing the other forums. But now its all mixed up i find it just a pain. I know about filtering but it is just added complication.
I only kept browsing bit-tech (since coming out of modding) because of a nice collection of people and the fact that the forums where clean and quick/easy to navigate.
The people are still nice, but i find the forums are neither clean or quick/easy to navigate.
M3G4 30th June 2007, 19:16 Quote
I have an idea for the improvement of these forums - STOP PEOPLE POSTING FROM IMAGESHACK/PHOTOBUCKET! they have the worlds most awful servers and it takes half an hour to download anything from their servers! :'(

Either way, I appreciate the hard work that has gone into this. It'll take some getting used to, but I certainly don't hate it. It's evolution. :) The buttons IMO, need to be standardised though. From my eyes they look a bit messy with all those different styles. But thats just me. Otherwise good job guys... once you get your head around the filtering system it's pretty much like the old forums are back :)
PA!N 30th June 2007, 19:57 Quote
After it took some time got get sorta used to the new strukture, the therad tagging/filter functions isn't that bad at all but the icons are imo a little bit to "clutterd" and hard to read. Why not just make simple tag-icons with plain and good to read text instead of small text and a picture that is in some cases hard to identefiy because it is so tiny?!
Emzay 30th June 2007, 20:37 Quote
the ickle picture filter things are far too 'busy' and hurt my eyes when not viewed on the filter.
Can you sticky some of the more popular threads in the general category por favor? ie: what was stickied in it's respective forum previously.
Bindibadgi 30th June 2007, 21:12 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by dom_
I have given it time, but for me it now takes longer to do my browsing of this forum than it used to.

I am only here for the a/v, general and entertainment side occasionally browsing the other forums. But now its all mixed up i find it just a pain. I know about filtering but it is just added complication.
I only kept browsing bit-tech (since coming out of modding) because of a nice collection of people and the fact that the forums where clean and quick/easy to navigate.
The people are still nice, but i find the forums are neither clean or quick/easy to navigate.

Well surely you could add your wisdom to more threads now? :D
Rocket733 30th June 2007, 21:38 Quote
+vote for making the tags easier to read. yeah the pictures are cool and all but it makes it harder to actually see what a post is about in a glance.
dom_ 30th June 2007, 21:41 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bindibadgi
Well surely you could add your wisdom to more threads now? :D

Sorry, little chance. Im out.
KMS-oul 30th June 2007, 21:49 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fr4nk
Well I was going to do the tags but at the time I was too busy with exams etc but this morning I made the tags from the hardware forum in the style of the bit-tech buttons, I was contemplating colour coding them but this what I've done so far:

http://imageshack.us

Imo, this considerably better than the current tags, but if these were colour grouped I think it would look superb, eg "hardware, oc'ing, graphics, displays and cooling" all with blue backgrounds etc.

Thoughts ?

-Fr4nk

I like it. Goes with the bit-tech theme. I don't like the existing tags tbh, look a lil tacky....sorry :(
Cthippo 30th June 2007, 22:01 Quote
I'm not sure which end this is on, but I've noticed that bit now locks up my browser until it finishes loading the page. (Opera 9.20 for linux)
ComputerKing 30th June 2007, 22:09 Quote
We need Poll.. I will start it :D

1- Back to the old style.

2- Keep this style.


What do you think? I think the old style is way better :|

Good luck
Mankz 30th June 2007, 22:10 Quote
I like Frank's Idea.
KMS-oul 30th June 2007, 22:16 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Computerking
We need Poll.. I will start it :D

1- Back to the old style.

2- Keep this style.


What do you think? I think the old style is way better :|

Good luck

A poll would be a good idea. The new style is better than I though since I discovered the filter tags :o however I don't like the designs (fr4nks idea is way better imo). Although I do still prefer the old layout.
Matkubicki 30th June 2007, 23:27 Quote
I'm not sure if any one has suggested this in the last 15 pages but heres my idea:

How about allowing members to select certain tags to be displayed under the section titles on the forum home page, like the old sub categories but only for tags we select, ie:

Hardware & Software ________ Most recent thread - boo user - 12-5-07 13:45
----HTPC __________________ A thread - Me - 12-5-07 10:45
----Graphics _______________ Look at my Uber GFX - PratGuy - 12-5-07 9:41

Just a suggestion and i imagine it'd be a fair bit of extra coding and the like but i would really love that feature. I used to scan the home page looking if there had been new posts in the subsections i liked every 30 mins or so now i have to open each section and look for tags in the huge list. The option i suggest would be even better than the old one has it would allow me to pick more accurately what i want to keep an eye on.

Thanks for a great forum though, that needs to be said more no matter how you change the design!! ;)
Hazardous 30th June 2007, 23:32 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkInferno


Could sombody email me if the forums return to normal because it really shouldn't be an effort to have to try to read through a forum, so frankly I won't be bothering.

Thanks, Bye.

Now is that for real... or do we take it with a pinch of salt - as per your sig ["*WARNING* May contain sarcasm."] :D
Hazardous 30th June 2007, 23:51 Quote
[OT]
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3G4


I have an idea for the improvement of these forums - STOP PEOPLE POSTING FROM IMAGESHACK/PHOTOBUCKET! they have the worlds most awful servers and it takes half an hour to download anything from their servers!

The reason many of us use ImageShack and PhotoBucket, is probably for no other reason, than those are the two best known free image hosting sites on the 'net?
You obviously don't approve of them, but rather than just having a rant... you need to offer them alternatives, if you're ever to have a hope of folks changing their habits

I don't know how good/bad they are... but here's a few to start with:

Free Image Home
Upload It
Free Image Hosting
Upload It
Upload 2 Net

[/OT]
Gordy 1st July 2007, 00:43 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by dom_
I have given it time, but for me it now takes longer to do my browsing of this forum than it used to.

I am only here for the a/v, general and entertainment side occasionally browsing the other forums. But now its all mixed up i find it just a pain. I know about filtering but it is just added complication.
I only kept browsing bit-tech (since coming out of modding) because of a nice collection of people and the fact that the forums where clean and quick/easy to navigate.
The people are still nice, but i find the forums are neither clean or quick/easy to navigate.

Dom I couldn't agree more. Whilst there are some forums where the filters could make sense like the news and site articles forum the others are simply unmanageable with them.
yodasarmpit 1st July 2007, 00:47 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazardous
[OT]



The reason many of us use ImageShack and PhotoBucket, is probably for no other reason, than those are the two best known free image hosting sites on the 'net?
You obviously don't approve of them, but rather than just having a rant... you need to offer them alternatives, if you're ever to have a hope of folks changing their habits

I don't know how good/bad they are... but here's a few to start with:

Free Image Home
Upload It
Free Image Hosting
Upload It
Upload 2 Net

[/OT]
I have to agree, it pisses me off no end when I click a pic hosted by imageshack and I get a please register her notice.
Freedom 1st July 2007, 02:15 Quote
The structure sucks. its too difficult to navigate, the older one made more sense you could go stright to the section you where looking for now you have to select a forum then click the desired filter pictures at top much more complicated. Looks better yes improvement no.
supermonkey 1st July 2007, 06:35 Quote
Well, I've given it a couple days to sink in, and I'm still not entirely convinced that the new structure is the best way to go. When I joined Bit, I spent the majority of my time in the Project Logs and Modding forums. However, as time moved on I found myself hanging around the General and Serious Discussion forums (and later the Art forum). Every now and then, I would poke my head into some of the other forums, just to see what was going on. Having the areas separated made it much easier for me to follow my interests, while still allowing for the occasional look into the other areas.

Previously, when I logged into Bit-Tech in the morning, I could navigate straight to the Serious Discussion forum and instantly see what threads had new material; Britain being 6 hours ahead meant that there was virtually an entire day's worth of new posts to read. Now, When I navigate to the General forum, I can't tell which end is up. Although we have a filter tag for "Serious" threads, some threads that would normally have been in Serious Discussion are tagged "Poll," or some other option. If I use the "Serious" filter, I might not see those other threads.

I was fairly busy today, so the first opportunity that I had to log on was this evening. I navigated over to the General forums, and there were just too many highlighted threads for me to sift through the ones that I wanted to follow - I didn't use the filters for the above-mentioned reasons. I checked out the first couple that caught my eye, but after that I just found it too much of a hassle. Perhaps it's just me, but having threads concerning criminal cases right next to threads about the Spice Girls reunion just seems odd.

-monkey
Amon 1st July 2007, 08:05 Quote
I'm beginning to feel a few flaws in the new forum arrangement after not visiting for a day. As I predicted earlier, the rate of new posts at bit-tech is fairly high, and now that the sections have been concatenated, finding relevant topics becomes daunting with so many new threads/replies per section. This was just one day after not visiting and I could not find topics wherein I was involved/interested. Just some feedback.

**edit: A lot of us seem to share the same opinion of the highly compactness.
insania 1st July 2007, 09:36 Quote
I really like the new structure and I think that the new filtering system looks very intuitive,
espescially for new users that easily get overstrained and bored by like 30 subforums.

But what really could be improved (imho) are the buttons.
They absolutely not look professional and have no connection to your typical Corporate Identity.
Fr4nks concept looks very promising - with some more typographical tweaking and in an alphabetical order,
this could probably become the way to go.
Maybe it would be possible to develop a coloring system for these (no random colors)?
whisperwolf 1st July 2007, 10:06 Quote
Personally I dislike having to click twice, General>serious, to get to where I used to go with one click, Serious discussion, it not ease of use its just annoying.

Can all the filters not be placed on the front page of the forums so you could jump to serious or Beer with out having to remember which forum they are under, navigating to forum and then filtering?

I also really dislike the vomit inducing kaleidoscope colours of the filters; I liked the fact that the forums were uncluttered with hideous images. The themed pics that had started to develop in the asking the community for help thread where much more in keeping with the forum and less headache inducing.

As a plus the inclusion of the scan offer means I no longer need to try to post on hexus, which I was never very good at, and I don’t have to move from this site to shout at their customer service people. Best customer service team I have talked with, just wish I hadn’t had to talk to them so often.


edit -Why did industry bulletins get their own forum section? would that not have worked with a tag in the bit-tech.net section?
Mosey 1st July 2007, 10:30 Quote
To be honest, i quite like the new forum layout i think with the suggestions being made, if taken aboard, will drastically improve the navigation and mechanics of the forum.

I agree with whisperwolf have filters on the opening forum page would be very useful. Additionally, im not sure if you can do this i tried but failed, if there was a way to eliminate a filter from the series of threads but leave all the rest. So, for example, in the gaming section i dont have a wii or any xbox related product so if could filter those out but leave everything else would be super!
koola 1st July 2007, 10:51 Quote
I find browing more difficult now tbh. I would love to go back to the old style as it was clean, easy to navigate and well laid out. If we "have to" stick with the new style, then there are a lot of improvements that should be made; Nicer icons (Frank's are sweet) and able to tag more than one catagory.
simon w 1st July 2007, 11:09 Quote
I think I've found another bug (unless it's already been reported). Browse to a forum where there are unread threads. Select a filter which has *no* unread threads. Then click unfilter and all the threads in that forum will be shown as read.
malccy 1st July 2007, 11:20 Quote
I very much hate the new structure and can't really understand why it's been changed. In fact like many others I know the new format puts people off looking at the forum.
Fr4nk 1st July 2007, 11:29 Quote
w00t thanks for the support guys,

With the help of Doug(Edey), we've managed to use a Greasemonkey (for Firefox) script which replaces the images with mine (which are hosted on his site(Ty Doug)) though for some reason it only replaces the tags in the "Threads in Forum : forum x" (so it tags all the threads made) but it does not replace the filter box tags for some reason, I have found a way round this but it requires another Firefox add-on and manually right clicking each tag and pointing it to the new image, which isn't exactly practice. So I'll/We'll be working on trying to sort out that. - Doug has sorted this and also made another script which allows all the tags to be viewed from the index, Thanks Doug ;)

I will leave you with Doug's Greasemonkey script(s):

You'll obviously need the Greasemonkey
Then go to: (make sure Greasemonkey is enabled (monkey should be smiling in bottom right))

-
http://voidedwarranty.co.uk/Greasemonkey/bitFilterTags.user.js for the replacing of tags with mine
- http://www.voidedwarranty.co.uk/Greasemonkey/bitFilters.user.js for the summary of tags on the index page (I recommend you check it out, it's a nice feature)

Firefox will prompt you to install etc, then refresh bit and your done

Enjoy ;)

Edit: Here's some screenys:
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/748" target="_blank">addon

Then go to: (make sure Greasemonkey is enabled (monkey should be smiling in bottom right))

- http://voidedwarranty.co.uk/Greasemonkey/bitFilterTags.user.js for the replacing of tags with mine
- http://www.voidedwarranty.co.uk/Greasemonkey/bitFilters.user.js for the summary of tags on the index page (I recommend you check it out, it's a nice feature)

Firefox will prompt you to install etc, then refresh bit and your done

Enjoy ;)

Edit: Here's some screenys:
[URL=http://img291.imageshack.us/my.php?image=preview2gv0.png http://img329.imageshack.us/my.php?image=preview1bv1.png
DougEdey 1st July 2007, 12:14 Quote
The script has been updated and moved to reflect this. http://voidedwarranty.co.uk/Greasemonkey/bitFilterTags.user.js

If Bit-tech staff want me to remove the link please PM me, don't just delete my post.

There's another script which places all the tags on the index for pseudo sub filtering.

The scripts have been tested in Opera 9.21 and work.
ozstrike 1st July 2007, 12:33 Quote
Cheers doug and Frank, really useful :)
Tim S 1st July 2007, 13:10 Quote
Nice work Doug/Fr4nk. :)

For everyone's information, we've come up with a selection of improvements based on feedback in this thread which we will hopefully be working on either Tomorrow or Tuesday.

One such improvement that was suggested internally is having text links under the forum headings on the index to each tag, so that you can go directly to whichever tag you normally visit (for example) - this looks a lot like what Doug and Fr4nk have done, but it'll be placed under each of the forum headings (I would like this to be text-based too).

Also, we will be expanding the number of forums based on the suggestions in this thread and we'll also be removing some of the tags from the more topical forums. I think we will eventually get there and I must thank you all again for your valuable feedback. ;)
hobbs 1st July 2007, 14:10 Quote
Tim, in response to your post in my thread down in general, the only thing that really bugs me about this, is that 30 forums were moved into 10. That (to me) was not a good idea because before it was fine, we didnt need to use tags, browsing the forums was a easy thing to do, you could find what you wanted. The old style was perfect, there was no need for tags, sure some of the little forums could have been merged but why didnt you guys just do that instead of re-working the whole thing? You hear the voice of the people, mabye you(as in all of the staff) should change it back and go back to the drawing board. You can post things like this BEFORE you make changes, ask us what we would like to change. Like ive said the old style was pretty damn close to perfect, all you guys had to do was ask us what needed to be done and refine it just a bit more and you would of had a perfect message board. but now you have this mess to deal with, over half of the users are not happy with it, and i can bet you that the number of posts and visits have gone down sence the changes have been made. Hell im almost on here 4 hours a day durring summer break, i like to browse though the different sections and look whats new, now its just a bunch of crap smashed together with my post a hour ago already back 3 pages in general. Once again i ask you to change it back and rethink what you are going to do and ask for input before you act.
Techno-Dann 1st July 2007, 15:58 Quote
From where I'm sitting, anyway, there's a whole screenful of stickies in the Hardware forum... Could those be compressed somehow? It's rather user unfriendly to have to scroll down through a whole screen of stickies.
Bindibadgi 1st July 2007, 16:05 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Techno-Dann
From where I'm sitting, anyway, there's a whole screenful of stickies in the Hardware forum... Could those be compressed somehow? It's rather user unfriendly to have to scroll down through a whole screen of stickies.

Yes, stickies are something we're working on. :)
Smilodon 1st July 2007, 17:09 Quote
I just noticed the multi-quote thing. I don't know if it was on the old forum, but it's really something i have missed.
planki 1st July 2007, 18:28 Quote
possibly me being impatient but as im whizzing in and out of forums trying to work out where everything has moved to, the pictures (for the filters) seem to be taking a long time to load. Hence im not seeing them appear as i whizz off again.

Possible to get text links instead of / aswell as?
zhangmaster12 2nd July 2007, 00:04 Quote
omg! i didnt notice the filter threadds bar!!! i was wondering where the hell did all the different catagories go?
MiNiMaL_FuSS 2nd July 2007, 00:06 Quote
the look is better overall, but I hate the sodding tabes, have make the forsale forums a nightmare.
dom_ 2nd July 2007, 00:54 Quote
While i am still not convinced with the design. I am given it longer still (after my initial outburst) only because i missed you guys....


¬_¬
pumpman 2nd July 2007, 02:09 Quote
ignore me I had a brain fart :)
DougEdey 2nd July 2007, 08:36 Quote
Have the rules changed for custom avatars? I thought it was 75 posts but this user has them after 2 posts and I can't see the rules anywhere?
Jamie 2nd July 2007, 10:26 Quote
Yes, the post limit for avatars has been removed.

Reply box in firefox is now displaying correctly.
whisperwolf 2nd July 2007, 11:39 Quote
Found another thing I find annoying. In the tech support forum you can only filter on 4 topics and all those filters are pretty much interchangable depending on who picks them, ****!, help, Question and noob, all of which in essence ask for help. would it perhaps make more sence to be able to filter on software, hardware or OS rather than question, question, question or question as it currently stands?
Bindibadgi 2nd July 2007, 11:42 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by dom_
only because i missed you guys....


/loves Dom too.
gar 2nd July 2007, 13:26 Quote
There's no point in me lying and I don't like to say this, but:

I've given this my best shot and tired to get accustiomed to the change, but I can't enjoy it. Because of this I'm VERY SAD to say I barely look at the site now even tough I've loveD BT since 2004. It's very disoraganised looking and lacks the decent layout it used to have. I feel I can say this as a web manager and graphic designer.
I don't understand why it needed to change. The reasons were not good enough for this change. Do please change it back!
Da_Rude_Baboon 2nd July 2007, 14:28 Quote
After having used the new structure for a few days i have to say i hate it.

I find the forum more difficult to navigate and uglier to look at with the tag images in the way. I also think there are too many tags which make it difficult to find what you want. For example there are tags for DVD, HD DVD, Bluray, Display, TV and AV. Surely, with maybe the exception of displays, these could all come under one tag?
Gordy 2nd July 2007, 14:32 Quote
After trying to use the forums for a couple of days now I've given up bothering. I used to look in the apple/projects/modding/cars/gen dis forums. Now I just don't bother with any of them and I can't see that changing with this current setup. I've been a member since 2001 on the forums according to my profile and I've been a keen support of bit, but this is a massive step backwards.
specofdust 2nd July 2007, 14:38 Quote
I'm amazed at the number of people who seem to feel this has essentially killed the forums. As someone who almost always just uses the "new posts" search to browse the forums, or goes after SD topics only - I have no problem with any of the changes. The ones that affect me most are things like the in-page posting/editing, and Scan opening up shop here - both of which I love.

People definitely seem to be going OTT in their criticism, I don't see what the big deal about just flicking on a filter is, but if it has to go back to the way things woz, I hope the improvements I mentioned that really affected me, stay active.
Gordy 2nd July 2007, 14:42 Quote
specofdust I think it's because you use the forums in a very different way to which I am used to. I tend to load up several different forums in 5 or 6 tabs then go through them one by one for new posts.

So on bit I load the forum homepage and look for any new posts in the forums that I read. If I see any I'll open them up in tabs and see if there is anything of interest.

With the new system I have to load up 3 or 4 forums and then run several filters to do the same thing.

I am a member of around 20 forums of all different sizes, nearly all of them on vbb and not a single one uses this filter system. I think that's rather telling don't you?
Glider 2nd July 2007, 14:44 Quote
I am really sad that a lot of people over here just whine and complain about the new structure, instead of giving pointers to how to make it better. I love the new filters, but I must admit I would like a few more forums, so that all the threads are devided a bit more (just for clarity purposes). Less flashy icons would be nice too.

But I do support the Bit tech staff in the fact that the old structure was too big. Lots of forums (like distibuted computing) barely saw 10 posts a month.

Also, the mods/staff is listening to your comments... Give them time to figure something out.

But I guess it is like Spec said all relative to your forum usage... I'm a 'new post' kind of user too... and instead of looking over to the right where the post was located (forum) I now see to the left and look at the tag.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordy
I am a member of around 20 forums of all different sizes, nearly all of them on vbb and not a single one uses this filter system. I think that's rather telling don't you?
No... The filter system is something new...
Gordy 2nd July 2007, 14:46 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glider

No... The filter system is something new...

Alot of them have upgraded in the same time frame as bit so they do have the option to use the filters.
Glider 2nd July 2007, 15:00 Quote
So, they didn't chose to implement it... Each will have their reasons probably. I courtesy Bit for trying new things... Standing still is like walking backwards...
Jamie 2nd July 2007, 15:53 Quote
Having actually implemented this tagging system I can clearly see why they haven't implemented it. It's not offered by vBulletin and it's not something that is easy to do.

Gordy: I think your reasons for not liking the new way of doing things is a bit backwards. You say you open several forums in new tabs then read each tab. That's not really how you are supposed to use these new forums. No you open one or two forums and read all the new posts in one place. The only reason to filter is to find something that is old.

As Glider has said, if you aren't moving forward and trying out new things you're going to get left behind. I'm sorry you can't see the advantages to this new system. I'm not saying it's perfect, there is plenty more we can do and there are a number of things that we have already noticed need changing. This is by no means the final product but there is only so much you can do before you get real users giving us feedback with new stuff like this.
Gordy 2nd July 2007, 18:34 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie
Having actually implemented this tagging system I can clearly see why they haven't implemented it. It's not offered by vBulletin and it's not something that is easy to do.

Gordy: I think your reasons for not liking the new way of doing things is a bit backwards. You say you open several forums in new tabs then read each tab. That's not really how you are supposed to use these new forums. No you open one or two forums and read all the new posts in one place. The only reason to filter is to find something that is old.

As Glider has said, if you aren't moving forward and trying out new things you're going to get left behind. I'm sorry you can't see the advantages to this new system. I'm not saying it's perfect, there is plenty more we can do and there are a number of things that we have already noticed need changing. This is by no means the final product but there is only so much you can do before you get real users giving us feedback with new stuff like this.

Each to their own I suppose, I use this system on every other forum and have done for years. The filters just add in an extra for me pointless step.

If bit-tech want to use a different system that's fine, I just won't bother reading here any more sadly. :(
pumpman 2nd July 2007, 18:45 Quote
now you know how I felt trying to learn to use a mac :) lol jk

seriously though, and I've looked and can't see one , how about a poll asking for feedback on the new setup.

I liked the look, but after floating around , I've found I have spent less time here than I normally would, I prefer the previous setup better
gar 2nd July 2007, 18:56 Quote
Yes, Bit-tech, why don't you listen and let us have a poll???? It's been asked for twice already!
Glider 2nd July 2007, 18:58 Quote
And it has also been adressed twice...

People resist to changes... set up a poll and it will be 100% against...
Jamie 2nd July 2007, 19:01 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by gar
Yes, Bit-tech, why don't you listen and let us have a poll???? It's been asked for twice already!

We value constructive criticism more than pure numbers.
gar 2nd July 2007, 19:11 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie
We value constructive criticism more than pure numbers.

You'll need to quantify those constructive critisms in some way. I don't see how a poll woun't help, but I have a feeling that the results may be contray to all the hard work you did. You aren't going to be able to change to everyones whim, so why not give people some options instead? As I said, it's really to hard to adjust to this format considering the old one was almost certainly more user friendly. I hope my opinion could at least be taken into account. thank you.

Gareth
yodasarmpit 2nd July 2007, 19:14 Quote
There is no point having a poll just two days after the update rollout, emotions will dictate the results rather than facts.
Let the changes sink in for a week or so and then revisit the subject.

There are some changes we would all like to see, but simply saying I hate it, roll it back is not constructive at all.
Jamie 2nd July 2007, 19:17 Quote
I'm tired of fighting, I've made a poll.

I don't really care about the numbers because I can already predict the outcome having read all the feedback in this thread.

I know we have some support out there.
gar 2nd July 2007, 19:21 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by yodasarmpit
There is no point having a poll just two days after the update rollout, emotions will dictate the results rather than facts.
Let the changes sink in for a week or so and then revisit the subject.

There are some changes we would all like to see, but simply saying I hate it, roll it back is not constructive at all.

I certainly don't hate the site, but I'm being honest insaying that even though it's only been a few days it is quite clear to me logically that this format is not as good as the old one. It is imporant to take everybodys opinion into account in a fair and democratic way, especially for a site with so many members. I don't mind waiting longer at all but in the mean time I'm not enjoying this exprience.
Jamie 2nd July 2007, 19:25 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by gar
I certainly don't hate the site, but I'm being honest insaying that even though it's only been a few days it is quite clear to me logically that this format is not as good as the old one. It is imporant to take everybodys opinion into account in a fair and democratic way, especially for a site with so many members. I don't mind waiting longer at all but in the mean time I'm not enjoying this exprience.

Care to explain why it doesn't work for you, maybe we can improve it.
gar 2nd July 2007, 19:25 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie
I'm tired of fighting, I've made a poll.

I don't really care about the numbers because I can already predict the outcome having read all the feedback in this thread.

I know we have some support out there.


I do support you guys, but hey I've taken part in many crits and they are all used to acheive a high standard rather than get a pat on the back. I think fair play to you all for wanting to make this site a better place to visit. I hope that this is still the vision, and I beleive it is.
LVMike 2nd July 2007, 20:10 Quote
Ive been using the forums for a while and i think there are some things that need to be changed in my opinion.

I think hardware and software need to be split into two sections. I think within hardware tv's, htpc, and a/v need their own section; maybe ( I am still on the fence about this one) . I feel the subcategory buttons need to fit in more with the overall bit-tech main page theme. I like them but i don't think they fit in with the site and at times they make navigation more difficult.

In my opinion if software and hardware are split up it would be a huge help. that category as it is now is so broad and expansive that it limits the usability of the system as a tool. By combining what are two very expansive subjects into one meta category the practicality of the threading setup is hampered by an extra and superficial level of complexity.

On the whole i believe that the new set up is a good move. I was very resistant (borderline hostel) at first, but now after continued use i am finding the site more maneuverable, and functional. Change is hard but is the only constant in life. People will get use to and embrace the new structure in time.
oddball walking 2nd July 2007, 20:32 Quote
voted and yes is winning :)
DougEdey 2nd July 2007, 20:53 Quote
I made a couple of demo scripts to see what sub forums might look like:

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y63/DEdey/newscript.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y63/DEdey/textSubs.jpg

Obviously the first has the images, the second has just text with seperators (without seperators it's far too confusing)

And a last one with the cleaner images.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y63/DEdey/imageSubs.jpg
oddball walking 2nd July 2007, 20:56 Quote
I only have one complaint about the 'hardware and software' forum, which needs to be split down the middle imo.
gar 2nd July 2007, 20:58 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie
Care to explain why it doesn't work for you, maybe we can improve it.

Yes please, I would really appreciate that. I'll write them down now. Thanks Jamie!
DougEdey 2nd July 2007, 21:00 Quote
Here's an idea, if you want to keep a maximum of 9 forums, why not split the Hardware & Software into Hardware and Software, but integrate the Tech Support filter into each. So if someone has a software problem it goes in Software -> Tech, hardware Problem goes in Hardware -> Tech
oddball walking 2nd July 2007, 21:05 Quote
firmware problems would go where?
DougEdey 2nd July 2007, 21:16 Quote
Firmware = hardware to be honest. But it's unlikely that you'll easily recognise a firmware problem (if you do recognise it immediately then why do you need tech support?)

It kills two birds with one stone, Tech support having four filters is ridiculous when they don't help to specify a query, Hardware & Software having 28 filters is massive overkill.
K 2nd July 2007, 21:17 Quote
Can't stand it. The images make the forum look ridiculous. I doubt I'll be posting anywhere near as frequently as I used to.
oddball walking 2nd July 2007, 21:20 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by DougEdey
Firmware = hardware to be honest. But it's unlikely that you'll easily recognise a firmware problem (if you do recognise it immediately then why do you need tech support?)

Why didn't I think of that
gar 2nd July 2007, 22:27 Quote
Well these are my suggestions, and sure I could be wrong too.

I agree that hardware and software should be in their seprate categories.

I think that the filter threads should be on the forum front page

The filter tabs, while they have good contrast between the images and lettering. I think it would be easier on the eye if the writing was on the left side and image on the right while keeping it all on the one tab. Hope this would help the resolution of the lettering, but then they may need to be slighty seprate to acheive this.

Perhaps there is no need to have the tabs on the side of each thread if you already know what thread you are on and all thread are under the same title.

When you look at the fliter tabs for example I think that if you look at i.e hardware: the tab should show you that the other filter threads are a sub-ordinate of it in a more pronounced way. the same goes the rest of the tabs. Perhaps size, or colour could change this.

All in all, I'm not sure. You never know till you try. I may be making things more confusing. Pictures and words both saying the same thing give you allot of info.
pumpman 2nd July 2007, 22:36 Quote
I like your second one Doug
DougEdey 2nd July 2007, 22:39 Quote
I've personally removed all the filters now. Takes up too much space on 1024x768 and now that the User column has expanded I need to decrease the size
SeT 2nd July 2007, 22:57 Quote
hrm. modding was a fun hobby while it lasted but with lack of time and money I've stopped. I still lurked on the forums for the past few years checking out water cooling and what some people could pull off with a simple Dremel. Personally I think the new forum style with the thread icons is hideous. Modding was almost dead anyway and the layout has killed another forum for me.

Good luck with this.
-SeT
MaximumShow 2nd July 2007, 23:37 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glider
I am really sad that a lot of people over here just whine and complain about the new structure, instead of giving pointers to how to make it better.

I think, for the most part, that people have been giving out ideas and pointers, instead of just saying "I hate it!".

I really do appreciate the work that went into this change, and that trying new things is essential for progress, but change in what most people see as the wrong direction is not a good thing. If the great new features (ex. multi quote) were combined with the easy browsability of the old forum, we'd have a true winner!

I also understand why the poll is not such a great idea, as it doesn't properly address the situation. None of the three options properly fit my feelings regarding the situation. I don't love how it is, I do like the new features so I don't hate it , but the new structure for me is horrible and I will not change my mind on that given a week to get used to it. So what do I vote? I ended up reluctantly clicking "go back to the old one", when really I just want the old structure with the new features.

I think most people want improvements to a proven, existing system, rather than a revamping of the entire thing. The phrase "why fix something that isn't broken" applies here, but so does "there's always room for improvement".

My vote: Old structure + new features.
GuardianStorm 3rd July 2007, 00:07 Quote
I like it :)
whisperwolf 3rd July 2007, 00:16 Quote
Having used it a couple of days, with my browsing style, I've found I've gone from the 30 sections of which i ignored a few because at a glance I could see nothing new had been posted, i now have chuffing loads of sections as I go to each section and then go through each filter one at a time. Mainly because I am a stupid male and can only concentrate on one kind of topic at a time and find threads involving spice girls reunion and 4x4's hitting Glasgow airport in one section odd and scary. So for me you have not condensed the number but massively expanded it and it now takes hours to navigate through with many more underused sections. Consequently to compensate I now look at relatively few threads and just browse 2 or 3 filtered sections.
Perhaps with multi filtering, saved user preference filters or ability to exclude instead of include filters this might improve, as might changing some of the image tags to non-screw-the-eyes-up-to-read types
thecrownles 3rd July 2007, 07:26 Quote
I think it's a good idea but instead of immediately combining the forums from 37 down to 10, it should have been done more gradually like down to 20 forums. Then you could see how well it works and go from there. Currently, I've just stopped reading threads. I guess I will wait a week but I don't know if I will go back to the forums. I think it would be a lot nicer if the tags were made easier to read. The tiny tags with even tinier text hurts my eyes, and I'm not even on a small monitor.
Cthippo 3rd July 2007, 08:23 Quote
After using the format heavially the last few days I have to say that I still can't see any real advantage to it. The reason for the changes that I have seen stated, that many forums were thinly populated and had relatively little traffic, is not somthing that I see as a problem. I would much rather have a large number of slow forums that what we have now, a small number of extreemly busy forums with only a few things in each one that are relevant to me. Yes, it's possible to filter, but I find that this adds complexity and extra work with no visible benefit to the user. It's frustrating to have to sort through 64 threrads with new posts to find the two that intetrst me when previously those were the only two active threads in the forum. In the particularly busy forums such as the new combined bit-tech.net the sheer number of active threads is overwhelming.

I appreciate the efforts of the staff, but at this point I can't see any real value to the structural changes.

(I hear multi-quote is noce, but haven't tried it yet)
dragon2309 3rd July 2007, 08:40 Quote
hey, c'mon guys, im all for a democracy and a vote, but it seems maybe your not (directed at bit-tech staff) the poll was going fine, i noticed it was in slight positive hue towards the "No, change it back fools" option, and now i come on today and the poll is closed with all votes removed. What are we supposed to think now?
DougEdey 3rd July 2007, 09:00 Quote
Basically RTT decides the forum changes. End of.
WireFrame 3rd July 2007, 10:30 Quote
I don't even know if this is the right forum, but i hate this new layout so much. Its not just the "new colours" or the "winds of change". Its the fact that its almost un-navigatable. Now I see some people like it, thats fine, my brain doesn't work that way. How about you give users the *option* to put it back the way it was?

TBH, I just said to myself "I can't navigate this, I'm gonna stop coming here soon".
DougEdey 3rd July 2007, 11:03 Quote
Wireframe: Originally I gave the forum a chance, I started to try and read more posts, but if anything, I read less posts then before, spend less times here and move around to other sites that I find have an easier to navigate structure.
hobbs 3rd July 2007, 11:20 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragon2309
hey, c'mon guys, im all for a democracy and a vote, but it seems maybe your not (directed at bit-tech staff) the poll was going fine, i noticed it was in slight positive hue towards the "No, change it back fools" option, and now i come on today and the poll is closed with all votes removed. What are we supposed to think now?

think cuba, they dont care what we think, they do what they WANT to do. Personally I bet the number of the people who visit the forums have gone down a large number sence the changes, I know i havent spent 20% of the time i used to. Ive gone on to other sites such as 3gameman and hardopc(awsome site btw) I really wish the mods would stop telling us to wait it out, I guess they dont know that people are unhappy with it and they will not get used to it, I can see alot of people coming to the forums less and less untill they just dont visit because browsing the forums is to much of a chore.
WireFrame 3rd July 2007, 11:26 Quote
The only way I found my post again was performing a search. Honestly, its just akward. Please, PLEASE give us the OPTION to put it back like it was? I'm willing to bet less than 10% of users stick with the current format.
Tyinsar 3rd July 2007, 11:51 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by whisperwolf
Having used it a couple of days, with my browsing style, I've found I've gone from the 30 sections of which i ignored a few because at a glance I could see nothing new had been posted, i now have chuffing loads of sections as I go to each section and then go through each filter one at a time. Mainly because I am a stupid male and can only concentrate on one kind of topic at a time and find threads involving spice girls reunion and 4x4's hitting Glasgow airport in one section odd and scary. So for me you have not condensed the number but massively expanded it and it now takes hours to navigate through with many more underused sections. Consequently to compensate I now look at relatively few threads and just browse 2 or 3 filtered sections.
Perhaps with multi filtering, saved user preference filters or ability to exclude instead of include filters this might improve, as might changing some of the image tags to non-screw-the-eyes-up-to-read types
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cthippo
After using the format heavially the last few days I have to say that I still can't see any real advantage to it. The reason for the changes that I have seen stated, that many forums were thinly populated and had relatively little traffic, is not somthing that I see as a problem. I would much rather have a large number of slow forums that what we have now, a small number of extreemly busy forums with only a few things in each one that are relevant to me. Yes, it's possible to filter, but I find that this adds complexity and extra work with no visible benefit to the user. It's frustrating to have to sort through 64 threrads with new posts to find the two that intetrst me when previously those were the only two active threads in the forum. In the particularly busy forums such as the new combined bit-tech.net the sheer number of active threads is overwhelming.

I appreciate the efforts of the staff, but at this point I can't see any real value to the structural changes.

...

I keep seeing changes and improvements (e.g. "(Advanced) Reply To Thread" now shows all smilies) and I had voted the "ask me later option" but I think these two posts (except for the "stupid male" phrase) hit the nail on the head.
RTT 3rd July 2007, 12:10 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbs
think cuba, they dont care what we think, they do what they WANT to do. Personally I bet the number of the people who visit the forums have gone down a large number sence the changes, I know i havent spent 20% of the time i used to. Ive gone on to other sites such as 3gameman and hardopc(awsome site btw) I really wish the mods would stop telling us to wait it out, I guess they dont know that people are unhappy with it and they will not get used to it, I can see alot of people coming to the forums less and less untill they just dont visit because browsing the forums is to much of a chore.

Stop with the "i bet this" and "i bet the other" <insert random fact here> because you've got absolutely nothing factual to base your thoughts on. Saying that we "dont care" and are "only doing what we want to do" is a complete load of rubbish, frankly. You've probably never run a forum or website and you've not got the slightest clue what is involved in doing so. So please stop teaching us to suck eggs because we're bored of it. You've brought absolutely nothing to this thread and come across as a whiney, passive-aggressive, 15-year-old idiot.

Broadly speaking, nothing we've ever done to the forum or the site has gone down well initially - just check out some of the threads from years ago. When we launched bitv4 back in '05 people said it was a step backwards, that they were leaving and that the site would die within a matter of weeks. Half of our readers would disappear overnight! We've been through all of this before and slowly but surely, people get used to things and stop inventing situations in which "the changes don't work" because they start to look to what the changes have actually brought to the table.

Please bear in mind that this is only an initial set of changes to get the ball rolling. The forums have badly needed some attention for a long time now and (if you hadn't already noticed) we're trying some new stuff. Sometimes you've just got to do something a bit radical. If it doesn't work then we'll try something else. We need a longer period to make that judgment... 4 days or whatever it has been is not long enough.

B)
DougEdey 3rd July 2007, 12:20 Quote
Wow RTT, never knew you had such great customer service skills.
RTT 3rd July 2007, 12:21 Quote
Not quite sure what that is meant to mean?
Darv 3rd July 2007, 12:31 Quote
I can see the advantages of the filters in the For Sale forum. It seems easier to find what you are looking for. However the other forums I find almost unusable. When you look at the forum index, the last new post part is completley useless because you don't know what it's for. Before I could look down the forum index and see all the forums that interest me with new posts and then check them in turn. Most forums I use the New Posts button, but there's quite a few posts on bit that I don't bother with so I find it easier to check for new posts manually.

I also think there are far too many filters. I used to be able to check console gaming and do it all in one go. Now I need to select each filter in turn. But then you get maybe 2 new posts to check before changing the filter again. It just takes longer for no appreciable gain. If there were fewer filters for people to check I think it would make things easier.

I don't think you can compare this change to the last big change. That was a minor change in comparison (although the reaction was fairly similar) It took me a while to get used to the new layout, but the way the forum worked was still the same.
Glider 3rd July 2007, 12:39 Quote
Well, Doug probably meant that you didn't sound very friendly...

I think you have a point tough... There are changes to be made, as the staff knows (there is some positive feedback in this thread, just look closely), and I'm sure they will be rolled out soon.
DougEdey 3rd July 2007, 12:42 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glider
I think you have a point tough... There are changes to be made, as the staff knows (there is some positive feedback in this thread, just look closely), and I'm sure they will be rolled out soon.

The changes that Tim mentioned were ones they had thought about in the office, these should have been tested on a seperate server before this rollout. From the sounds of the administrators posts they knew they would need to implement these changes. Lack of planning in my view.
Glider 3rd July 2007, 12:46 Quote
No, not lack of planning... On a smaller scale the filters work great... therefor in the testing stage problems like these won't be noticed... And then there is the <insert bad words here> resistance to change of the majority of the users...
RTT 3rd July 2007, 12:48 Quote
The main thing we're trying to promote is thread visibility. Before what we'd have is (say) 20 people spread over 10 forums. What resulted from that was very little activity overall because each person was only going to one tiny area to catch up on a tiny amount of new posts and threads.
They'd "miss out" on the other threads which they may have otherwise been interested in, even if they wouldn't end up contributing, in the other forums simply because there wasn't really any incentive to go there.

Infact, half of the problem in years gone by is that we'd spot a new topic coming up in conversation a lot (Apple, for example) and then create an Apple forum. More often than not, what that did was kill the topic. Two or three people would post in Apple and because it appeared to be dead, the 18 or so other people would not even bother looking in there. Result? Dead topic and a dead forum :(

Don't come back at me with the "Well I don't care about Topic XYZ anyway so I never would have gone to Topic XYZ's forum!" argument because I don't believe you. Something may take your interest enough for you to click on it and give it a read. ;)

I lost count of the amount of times I used to eventually find interesting threads that I wish I had found earlier.

Now what we have is 40 people all in Hardware & Software. As said before, all of the threads on that topic are in one place and not in 10 different dormant places. You can now find threads that even if you've nothing to contribute may make interesting reading anyway. If you want to catch up on all of the threads in one area then you can still do that with filters. The tags are there as a visual indicator so you can quickly spot the topics that you're into. If you're into windows, you can easily spot those topics by just skimming the page for the green-looking tag.

One thing i'll say right now that we're going to do is make some of the tags clearer. The Word/Image combination hasn't worked too well. More use of predominant colors and either word only or picture only will make the tags much better. Stay tuned :)
Tim S 3rd July 2007, 12:49 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by DougEdey
The changes that Tim mentioned were ones they had thought about in the office, these should have been tested on a seperate server before this rollout. From the sounds of the administrators posts they knew they would need to implement these changes. Lack of planning in my view.

No, the changes I have talked about in this thread are changes that we have discussed in the office, not changes that have exclusively been thought of in the office. The changes we will be making are based on what has been suggested by the posters in this thread (having been discussed internally after the suggestions have been made, not before). There are some other usability improvements (some of which we'd thought about earlier) that we will be making too, but it's not a case of "haha, yeah, we've already thought of that".

Thus, suggesting a lack of planning is an incredibly short sighted and sweeping statement... it's called getting feedback from a wider selection of people that use it.
DougEdey 3rd July 2007, 12:49 Quote
No, I mean the sub filters on the main page, Tim said the idea had been in the office to have them there, but they weren't implemented yet (even though I scripted them in less that an hour).

Also 20+ filters on an individual forum and 4 filters meaning exactly the same thing on the tech support forum should have been noticed in testing.
Tim S 3rd July 2007, 12:53 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by DougEdey
No, I mean the sub filters on the main page, Tim said the idea had been in the office to have them there, but they weren't implemented yet (even though I scripted them in less that an hour).

Also 20+ filters on an individual forum and 4 filters meaning exactly the same thing on the tech support forum should have been noticed in testing.

They were thought of over the weekend in a discussion I had with Geoff while sitting eating my dinner on the sofa. Not all of us work 24 hours a day, 365 days a year.
DougEdey 3rd July 2007, 12:54 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim S
Thus, suggesting a lack of planning is an incredibly short sighted and sweeping statement... it's called getting feedback from a wider selection of people that use it.

Which is where beta testing occurs.

I've built a system here which is designed to maintain easy access to changes across multiple systems and departments, originally it was quite small, just meant for our departments use. Through intial testing of 20 people it was decided to develop the system further and make completely different to the original specifications. As we gradually rolled it out to sister departments, more problems were noted, discussed and added or removed.

Our Beta testing consisted of 150 people using the system for 2 months. After which further changes were implented, and rolled out to 300 people.

Then after that was all cleared it was rolled out system wide and is now in use by over 3000 people.

Just dumping a change on people is not good development.
Jamie 3rd July 2007, 12:56 Quote
Testing, lol!
ComputerKing 3rd July 2007, 14:14 Quote
I love this style... NOW I love it.. It's easy on eyes and soft!!

guys find way to fix that tags thing.. This is the problem now.. but every thing else is KICKASS

the tags is sux really :D sorry to say that.. but I have to say that to make bi-tech better and better

take care
WireFrame 3rd July 2007, 14:14 Quote
The biggest problem I'm having, apart from the fact I can't find jack anymore, is that in your efforts to "help" me find one new topic in 20 years that I might not have seen before, you're effectively spamming me with all the junk that I wouldn't read.
"THATS WHAT THE FILTERS ARE THERE FOR!"

Yes. But then, thats what the search engine is there for. If I want to read general discussion, I don't want to have to trawl through 7 forums to find the one to have the filter to get to the room I want to catch up on today's laid-back gossip. It doesn't make the forums a fun viewing experience. I'm not saying I'm resistant to change, per se, but I think we should have the option to go back to how it was IF WE WISH TO.
Da_Rude_Baboon 3rd July 2007, 14:32 Quote
The bit tech forum members do appreciate the hard work put into maintaining and developing the site although we probably don't tell you guys how well your doing often enough. In fact it is testament to HOW GOOD bit-tech is that you get such a response when changes are made. Bit has always been one of the easiest to read and navigate forums out there, helped by the structure and consistent look. IMO the forum changes have had a negative on the ease of use as i have previously stated. The filter icons are so inconsistent in their appearance and numerous in numbers that it is visually very confusing to look at and use. I think the filter idea could be great but the forum needs to be broken down into some more sections first imo.

It is also interesting to see that a lot of the complaints are coming from long term members who have seen the previous changes and grown used to them. These are also the people who probably have the most affection for the forums so it is no surprise that they are complaining when they see something they care for take, what appears to them, as a step in the wrong direction. When i first joined Bit i used to avidly read all the forums, over the years that has dwindled to a few of the sections that interest me and it appears from the reading the feedback thread a lot of long term members do the same. Contrary to what RTT says I genuinely do not want to see threads on topics I'm not interested in and it is a chore to go through the various filters instead of just browsing the sections i like.

Anyways your work is appreciated guys and I'm sure you will come to a solution that has a more favourable response. ;)
cjmUK 3rd July 2007, 14:54 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Da_Rude_Baboon
Contrary to what RTT says I genuinely do not want to see threads on topics I'm not interested in and it is a chore to go through the various filters instead of just browsing the sections i like.

Indeed. I often don't have the time to cover the topics that I *do* like, so I'm certainly not going to waste time on new topics. I already knew what the site covered - I don't need it waving in front of my face. On occasion, when I had plenty of time to spare, I'd browse through forums that I wasn't generally interested in, like Apple and Modding.

I think the merging of sub-forums was a very big failure, but the biggest failing was the lack of a beta running in parallel. There is no technical or logistical reason why this couldn't have been done. It would have highlighted many of the key areas of contention without having to alienate so many visitors. I can only assume that the team we so confident that the changes would generally be accepted by the majority, which obviously they haven't been.

I also think it's important to re-iterate that just because many people have strong objections to the changes overall, most people have found something they like. I don't think our objections can simply be put down to resistance to change; the fact is that certain changes would have been welcomed if applied to the old forums.

Edit: Out of interest, what happened to the poll results?
will. 3rd July 2007, 15:11 Quote
I like the bit-tech nav in the top of the scan forum.... Nice and clean lookin'.
Jamie 3rd July 2007, 15:13 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by will.
I like the bit-tech nav in the top of the scan forum.... Nice and clean lookin'.

:D
cderalow 3rd July 2007, 17:46 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Da_Rude_Baboon
The bit tech forum members do appreciate the hard work put into maintaining and developing the site although we probably don't tell you guys how well your doing often enough. In fact it is testament to HOW GOOD bit-tech is that you get such a response when changes are made. Bit has always been one of the easiest to read and navigate forums out there, helped by the structure and consistent look. IMO the forum changes have had a negative on the ease of use as i have previously stated. The filter icons are so inconsistent in their appearance and numerous in numbers that it is visually very confusing to look at and use. I think the filter idea could be great but the forum needs to be broken down into some more sections first imo.

It is also interesting to see that a lot of the complaints are coming from long term members who have seen the previous changes and grown used to them. These are also the people who probably have the most affection for the forums so it is no surprise that they are complaining when they see something they care for take, what appears to them, as a step in the wrong direction. When i first joined Bit i used to avidly read all the forums, over the years that has dwindled to a few of the sections that interest me and it appears from the reading the feedback thread a lot of long term members do the same. Contrary to what RTT says I genuinely do not want to see threads on topics I'm not interested in and it is a chore to go through the various filters instead of just browsing the sections i like.

Anyways your work is appreciated guys and I'm sure you will come to a solution that has a more favourable response. ;)


agreed...

the navigation with the new system sucks... now I have to weed through a ton of threads to find the ones I might actually be interested in..

Rather than just come to the forum home, and click on the subforum i actually want to read through, i now have to add 2-3 more steps, and not all the relevant threads are shown...

it's ugly, and takes longer to load (esp on slower connections)
MaximumShow 3rd July 2007, 18:06 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by RTT
The main thing we're trying to promote is thread visibility. Before what we'd have is (say) 20 people spread over 10 forums. What resulted from that was very little activity overall because each person was only going to one tiny area to catch up on a tiny amount of new posts and threads.
They'd "miss out" on the other threads which they may have otherwise been interested in, even if they wouldn't end up contributing, in the other forums simply because there wasn't really any incentive to go there.


No offense, but I figure the average BT user can decide for themselves what interests them. With the new structure, the majority of people who find the site to be more difficult to navigate, will enter a forum and immediately use one of the filters anyways. So not only do they skip the stuff they would usually "miss out" on, but now it's much more difficult to do so, leading to frustration.

I still do not see the problem with 37 forums, even if a handful of them were slow. Now you will have a bunch of filtered groups that are slow... six of one, half a dozen of the other. I don't think any amount of forced viewing of software development (for example) will make me consider posting there, as I am not a programmer and am not interested.
Tyinsar 3rd July 2007, 18:12 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by RTT
...One thing i'll say right now that we're going to do is make some of the tags clearer. The Word/Image combination hasn't worked too well. More use of predominant colors and either word only or picture only will make the tags much better. Stay tuned :)
;) just please no picture only tags. - Icons are good once you are familiar with them but can be very confusing at first and what is intuitive to one person my be counter-intuitive to another.
RTT 3rd July 2007, 18:12 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by cderalow
agreed...

the navigation with the new system sucks... now I have to weed through a ton of threads to find the ones I might actually be interested in..

When the tags are tweaked a bit it should be much easier. Right now we're all still adjusting to the new tags. I couldn't tell you off-hand what the overclocking tag looks like, but you'll probably soon come to recognise the tags you are interested in, and you'll skip out the rest without really thinking about it.
Quote:

Rather than just come to the forum home, and click on the subforum i actually want to read through, i now have to add 2-3 more steps, and not all the relevant threads are shown...

it's ugly, and takes longer to load (esp on slower connections)

Old:
Load forum index
* load apple in new tab
* load development in new tab
* load a/v in new tab

New:
load forum index
click hardware/software
* load apple tag in new tab
* load development tag in new tab
* load a/v tag in new tab

what's that, just one extra step? :)

I can't really argue about the slower connection issues other than to say your browser cache should take over once you've downloaded them all once.
RTT 3rd July 2007, 18:17 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaximumShow
No offense, but I figure the average BT user can decide for themselves what interests them

I wasn't suggesting that you guys don't know what does and doesn't interest you. We've got filters so you can narrow down when you want to.
The old forums tidied far too many things away where people would never see or find them. All we're thinking is that with less forums we'll have a much broader range of actual discussion via increased thread visibility. The old solution did not promote discussion. There most definitely are areas of discussion that we can all dip into, and this is what we're trying to revive ;)
WireFrame 3rd July 2007, 18:24 Quote
But what about the fact that people feel like they're being spammed with threads that have no interest to them, and with your filtering, you've effectively created way more forums than before.
I would NOT plough through the top level to find the one thread I want, and I wouldn't go through all the filters to get to my one thread at the top.

So, for the third time,
IS THERE GOING TO BE A USER OPTION TO CHANGE THE FORUM FORMAT BACK TO THE OLD WAY IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT AS IT IS?
RTT 3rd July 2007, 18:26 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by WireFrame

IS THERE GOING TO BE A USER OPTION TO CHANGE THE FORUM FORMAT BACK TO THE OLD WAY IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT AS IT IS?

Of course not unless we decide to change back (unlikely, frankly, having gone this far) or separate some of the forums out in the future if necessary.
WireFrame 3rd July 2007, 18:36 Quote
Nice. So thats why the poll was pulled: It was leaning towards "No, change it back you fools!" and you thought "Not likely, having gone this far", and pulled it before it showed that over 50% hated the changes. Interesting.
RTT 3rd July 2007, 18:42 Quote
If I cared about the meaningless figures I could have rigged them... :)
cjmUK 3rd July 2007, 18:44 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by RTT
Of course not unless we decide to change back (unlikely, frankly, having gone this far) or separate some of the forums out in the future if necessary.

And there's the crunch... "We're listening and we value your feedback, but we are not going to change it back whatever you say because we would lose too much face".

The sensible option would be to go back to where we were, figure out what people liked and didn't like, apply the positive features to the old forums, and wither abandon or amend the features that haven't been accepted.

Whereas it sound like you are either going to try to appease the disaffected with superficial changes and just expect us to resign ourselves to it, or worse still, apply a series of bodges to mitigate the failings of an unpopular system.

Can I ask what the real motivation for these changes were? I can't believe usability has been sacrificed in the vain hope that people will suddenly start getting interested in niche areas.


Oh and your one extra step argument is a but disingenuous...

Try this one for size: compare number of clicks to open pages for the following topics:

Hardware & Overclocking
Video Cards
PC Gaming
Development
Serious Discussion
Bargains
UK For Sale & Wanted

These were my typical daily haunts... though I dipped in as many more forums when I had the time. I count 7 clicks on old vs 12 click on new with the extra annoyance of all those images.
Glider 3rd July 2007, 18:44 Quote
WireFrame:

1) This isn't a democracy, Bit offers a forum, they don't HAVE to... Keep that in mind. Ok, the poll was pulled, but last time I checked it (and I do it often) it was 35% Pro, 40% contra and the rest needed time, hardly a owning victory from 'your' camp...

2) Non constructive comments (like the majority of this thread) should be ignored anyways. From what I pick up around the fora, there are revised icons coming, probably a spilt of hard- & software,... just be patient!

3) Nobody forces you to use the site... If you dislike it that much, go away, please! You are acting just like hobbs was in the beginning of the thread.

I'm getting sick and tired of people repeating the same over and over again. Give the staff a chance to implement changes, please! I'm sure there are tweaks right around the corner.

EDIT: Well, everyone is so caring about the community over here, well, for me the community shows it's face ATM, being a whining brat... It's not the change that has ruined the community, it's the community's attitude that did...
cjmUK 3rd July 2007, 18:51 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glider
WireFrame:

1) This isn't a democracy, Bit offers a forum, they don't HAVE to...

[snip]

3) Nobody forces you to use the site... If you dislike it that much, go away, please!

Lol...

Bit-tech: "We're trying to generate more traffic in less popular forums"
Glider: "They're trying to generate less traffic in previously popular forums"

This is not a democracy, but it is a free market and the usual free market rules apply.
Glider 3rd July 2007, 18:52 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjmUK
This is not a democracy, but it is a free market and the usual free market rules apply.
Time for Bit-tech to start with subscription fees then...
Bogomip 3rd July 2007, 18:55 Quote
The only reason I come to bit is for the forums, perousing the articles if im bored (quite often). It's in my interest to say what I think about them but whenever and whatever I do say is either always ignored (I doubt) or just not implemented, so it gets to the point where im just not going to offer them anymore. People whine because they dont like it, if people dont like something they stop frequenting it - in the end bit dont have to provide a forum but then without the forum how much custom do they lose? How much Ad revenue?

I know at least 2 people who stopped browsing bit when the new design took over two years and a half (or so) ago and they were the only other people I knew who did browse.

Whining and now being listened too (or being told to stfu whining) -> people stop browsing -> rubbish community

edit: bit with subs, kthxbyebit :) Why would I pay for something thats got worse over the years (and NOT due to lack of moneys) ? ATM I dont really complain about not being listened to and barely ever offer any kind of constructive criticism, but if I was paying then I would /demand/ to be listened to :)
yodasarmpit 3rd July 2007, 18:59 Quote
Not a fan of the new colour coding to represent read and unread threads, I much preferred the icons which were not so in your face.
Tim S 3rd July 2007, 18:59 Quote
who said we were going to start charging to use the site? :|
DougEdey 3rd July 2007, 19:00 Quote
Worked out the colour coding!

Green: Unread posts & You posted
Orange: Unread posts & you haven't posted
Dark blue: You posted no unread posts
Light Blue: You haven't posted and no unread posts.
Bogomip 3rd July 2007, 19:01 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim S
who said we were going to start charging to use the site? :|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glider
Time for Bit-tech to start with subscription fees then...
It was only sarcastic, I forgot my roll eyes smiley :P

There are tonnes of nice additions to the site, just not a great fan of the filter system - too much crap at the top, cant filter multiple subjects, have to refilter everytime I go into the forum.

edit: oh, and all this swear word filter arsiness atm is a bit rubbish :)
Tim S 3rd July 2007, 19:02 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bogomip
It was only sarcastic, I forgot my roll eyes smiley :P



I can say for sure that it isn't going to happen because I, for one, would be against it.
Glider 3rd July 2007, 19:03 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim S
who said we were going to start charging to use the site? :|

I did, just to point out this isn't a market, it's a community :)

Hope you don't start charging, but I'm confident about that.
Hiren 3rd July 2007, 19:06 Quote
Charging would be opposed by all the staff I think, don't forget we our all part of this community too. :)
specofdust 3rd July 2007, 19:06 Quote
With the new colour coding I now get the forum listed in the "views" column and under the "forum" column is just blankness. The "Thread / Thread Starter" column also just has the thread starter in it, name of the thread being in an unamed column preceding that one, and the thread starter column is way too wide. I took a screeny but even jpeg'd it's 5.4MB and I don't have any smallifying software installed.

Edit: That was quick RTT/Jamies :P - Much better now
Jamie 3rd July 2007, 19:11 Quote
The colour code is at the bottom of the thread list.
specofdust 3rd July 2007, 19:14 Quote
Could you append the colour code to the "New Posts" search function too please? I pretty much use that exclusively to browse the forums and I believe there are quite a few others who do likewise, it'd just help while getting used to it.
Nath 3rd July 2007, 19:28 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by WireFrame
But what about the fact that people feel like they're being spammed with threads that have no interest to them, and with your filtering, you've effectively created way more forums than before.
I would NOT plough through the top level to find the one thread I want, and I wouldn't go through all the filters to get to my one thread at the top.

So, for the third time,
IS THERE GOING TO BE A USER OPTION TO CHANGE THE FORUM FORMAT BACK TO THE OLD WAY IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT AS IT IS?
Is it possible for you to provide feedback without being an ungrateful arse? Because that would be like super cool.

Ontopic, I think the tag images could do with a slightly more uniform theme, but they're by no means particularly distracting.

EDIT: vvv High-five o/
jezmck 3rd July 2007, 19:28 Quote
Now I've used it for a bit, I like the new style.
(Though I do think some of the filter images could be clarified.)
yodasarmpit 3rd July 2007, 19:30 Quote
Odd, on my calibrated laptop monitor the new colour scheme looks nice and subtle, but on my other PC's CRT they look garish.
SteveyG 3rd July 2007, 19:33 Quote
The colour coding feature is nice, although if possible it would be even better if there was more contrast between unread posts and posts I'd contributed in (on the dark skin).

Having used the forum over the past few days, the grouping of the forums would be less annoying if the front page was appended with the appropriate topic names in each subforum.

For some reason Firefox doesn't seem to be caching the filter images properly. I've tried at work and on my PCs at home, but theres a few images that get downloaded every time. Any ideas?
will. 3rd July 2007, 20:13 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie
:D

A sign of things to come perchance?
Jamie 3rd July 2007, 20:24 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by will.
A sign of things to come perchance?

Just bashed together to brand the Scan forum, no plans yet for using it elsewhere.
Smilodon 3rd July 2007, 20:26 Quote
I like the new marking of posts I have participated in. It basically fixes the only problem i pointed out the last time the forum was redesigned. (the old icon wasn't that easy to tell apart from the others.

I'm not a fan of the colors, though (green and orange). They look OK, but doesn't fit in to well with the rest of the design. (I'm running the dark theme, BTW) but then again, shades of blue can be hard to separate...

I would suggest more purple-ish. (nicer color than green IMO, but then again, someone else might have another opinion...)
Glider 3rd July 2007, 20:32 Quote
I'm colorblind... so they don't help me much :) but a nice addition ;)
Jamie 3rd July 2007, 20:40 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glider
I'm colorblind... so they don't help me much :) but a nice addition ;)

Is that Green/Blue colour blindness? I'd totally forgotten about that
ozstrike 3rd July 2007, 20:48 Quote
I would like nicer colours fitting in more with the theme (I have red/green and blue/purple colourblindness, but can still see it doesn't look right) but I love it, way better than the icons :)

Edit: I reckon there might only be a need for "Threads you've seen", "Threads You've Posted In", and "New Posts"
Jamie 3rd July 2007, 20:53 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by ozstrike
I would like nicer colours fitting in more with the theme (I have red/green and blue/purple colourblindness, but can still see it doesn't look right) but I love it, way better than the icons :)

Edit: I reckon there might only be a need for "Threads you've seen", "Threads You've Posted In", and "New Posts"

Are you using Light or Dark?
ozstrike 3rd July 2007, 20:54 Quote
Using dark atm.
Pygo 3rd July 2007, 20:56 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nath
Quote:
Originally Posted by WireFrame

But what about the fact that people feel like they're being spammed with threads that have no interest to them, and with your filtering, you've effectively created way more forums than before.
I would NOT plough through the top level to find the one thread I want, and I wouldn't go through all the filters to get to my one thread at the top.

So, for the third time,
IS THERE GOING TO BE A USER OPTION TO CHANGE THE FORUM FORMAT BACK TO THE OLD WAY IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT AS IT IS?
Is it possible for you to provide feedback without being an ungrateful arse? Because that would be like super cool.
Ontopic, I think the tag images could do with a slightly more uniform theme, but they're by no means particularly distracting.
EDIT: vvv High-five o/

I'm actually with WireFrame on this one. I really did like the old style a whole lot better. Especially for the photo forum. I really liked having the competition threads categorized onto separate pages.

I can see how it will be better though; with people making threads in the wrong areas. It will be harder to put a thread in the wrong place this way.


I REALLY hope I can get a feature to stick it back to the old way though.
Glider 3rd July 2007, 21:04 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie
Is that Green/Blue colour blindness? I'd totally forgotten about that
Yeah, I'm a Daltonist...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_blindness#Red-green_color_blindness
cderalow 3rd July 2007, 21:05 Quote
not sure if it's a bug related to the new structure or just a general bug, but despite attempting 3 ways... i can't see page 77 of this thread, despite the forum showing me one exists http://forums.bit-tech.net/showthread.php?t=3298&page=76
Glider 3rd July 2007, 21:10 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by cderalow
not sure if it's a bug related to the new structure or just a general bug, but despite attempting 3 ways... i can't see page 77 of this thread, despite the forum showing me one exists http://forums.bit-tech.net/showthread.php?t=3298&page=76
Works fine over here :D
Jamie 3rd July 2007, 21:12 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by cderalow
not sure if it's a bug related to the new structure or just a general bug, but despite attempting 3 ways... i can't see page 77 of this thread, despite the forum showing me one exists http://forums.bit-tech.net/showthread.php?t=3298&page=76

I can't see a page 77, but I don't doubt that you can.

We've not changed the page nav code at all so it must be a count bug, I'll tell it to update post counts later tonight.
Nath 3rd July 2007, 21:26 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pygo
I'm actually with WireFrame on this one. I really did like the old style a whole lot better. Especially for the photo forum. I really liked having the competition threads categorized onto separate pages.
There's a POTM filter...
dragon2309 3rd July 2007, 21:43 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by RTT
but you'll probably soon come to recognise the tags you are interested in, and you'll skip out the rest without really thinking about it.
What?? but you just spent the few posts before that one saying the whole point of this forum change was to let persuade or help bit-tech readers to find threads they wouldnt normally read. Now its changed and the tagging system is supposed to not count anymore...

RTT, i havent been here all that long, maybe half a year max (active), and i don't know who you are, an admin? i don't know, so i hope my views are unbiased. But your comments (whether your as high as an admin or not) are just smacking bit-tech users in the face constantly. Now reaching over 400 posts of complaints, suggestions, tips and opinions and all you've summarized towards the end of it (expeically by closing the poll and removing the results) is that you don't actually care what we think about the new system because its staying.

I've read almost every single one of these 400 posts, and i can tell you that even i can see that people are unhappy, people like the theme (but lets face it its nothing inventive) but EVERYONE that i've read a reply from has hated the tagging system. I've also read your's and other bit-tech staff responses, people like Jamie seem to be appreciating any and all feedback as it comes, you on the other hand reject any resistance and sit high in your throne dictating how we should use a forum.

And another thing, you cant pull the "You must have never run a forum before" stunt, im a mod over at computerforum.com, sure i dont run the place but have every say in how its handled because our admins (ian and praetor) actually listen to what the users want and we have a VERY happy atmosphere over there. Notice the lack of a crappy tagging system. And yes, we have all the features that the users here at BT have opinted out as being good (multiquote, quick edit, quick post etc...)

Of course im not going to stop coming here, its about the only forum that still has decent people who know what they're talking abot in the electronics section (or what used to be). But this is solely because you seem to have that monopoly, there are plenty other modding sites that are even more supported and recognised than bit-tech.

And yes, as a last point, i have psoted in this thread already expressing my dislike to the new system, as with everyone else, but i didnt mind the post getting lost in 20 pages as long as someone up top read it and took it on board, well whoop di doo, looks like no one gave two craps about what anyone said
ozstrike 3rd July 2007, 21:47 Quote
It's not like they're saying it will NEVER EVER EVER CHANGE. All they're saying is that it needs a little time to mature before people get used to it. It's like anything new, people just don't like adjusting.
Nath 3rd July 2007, 22:16 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragon2309
I've read almost every single one of these 400 posts, and i can tell you that even i can see that people are unhappy, people like the theme (but lets face it its nothing inventive) but EVERYONE that i've read a reply from has hated the tagging system. I've also read your's and other bit-tech staff responses, people like Jamie seem to be appreciating any and all feedback as it comes, you on the other hand reject any resistance and sit high in your throne dictating how we should use a forum.
From running sites in the past I can definitely sympathise with RTT. Doing a lot of hard work to get something you're happy with, then seeing people with the temerity to outright mock it is particularly annoying. In fact, it's completely understandable when there are people like WireFrame who are being outright rude about a site/service which doesn't demand anything of its users yet provides a huge amount of content and a great community. :(
Shadow_101 3rd July 2007, 22:21 Quote
Just logged on to find a thread in networking to find the new look! i have one question...i cant find the networking section anymore... i'll keep looking.
yodasarmpit 3rd July 2007, 22:24 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow_101
Just logged on to find a thread in networking to find the new look! i have one question...i cant find the networking section anymore... i'll keep looking.
Goto Hardware and Software then filter for networking :)
SteveyG 3rd July 2007, 22:25 Quote
Small bug - if you search and no results are found you get $displayCommon added to the text regarding the error.

http://www.clanbbw.com/publicimg/data/images/fj87ghf89jr.jpg
ComputerKing 3rd July 2007, 22:28 Quote
I want fix for #441 post !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
yodasarmpit 3rd July 2007, 22:33 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Computerking
I want fix for #441 post !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Fix for what, what is it that is wrong?
Can you specify the problem.

Edit, sorry, I see different layout between firefox and IE7
ComputerKing 3rd July 2007, 22:35 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by yodasarmpit
Fix for what, what is it that is wrong?
Can you specify the problem.

Edit, sorry, I see different layout between firefox and IE7

I mean the colums!!! that username must be samller and the name bigger ! or this is right ?
trigger 3rd July 2007, 22:36 Quote
I like the new colour theme (albeit on dark), the icons I fear will take a little getting used to. I'm just feeling a little lost at the moment. Good job though guys :)

Slight problem I'm experiencing (not sure whether it is only me...) but the icons are taking ages to load/not loading at all, which obviously makes the forums all but unusable. Perhaps the issue will go away when all the images are in my cache... Not sure whether anyone has already mentioned this - I only ready the first ten pages (!).

edit: love the new in-line editing - nice work! Incidentally for some reason I can't drop my sig font size down to 1 - only half of it is small :(
Pygo 3rd July 2007, 22:40 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nath
From running sites in the past I can definitely sympathise with RTT. Doing a lot of hard work to get something you're happy with, then seeing people with the temerity to outright mock it is particularly annoying. In fact, it's completely understandable when there are people like WireFrame who are being outright rude about a site/service which doesn't demand anything of its users yet provides a huge amount of content and a great community. :(

/me looks down at his sig...

The site does look a lot less cluttered now. It may take some time to grow on me though. I have to admit though, given the option I would switch back to the old style just because it made sense and it was what I was used to.

I'm sure RTT knows a lot of us are just bugging him (or at least us old guys.) Since we've been through the whole site layout change a fair few times now. ;)

EDIT: I still wish we'd ban some of the stupids... It really does take the threads down a notch or two. I certainly don't mind helping out those in dire need. But when it gets to the point of just silliness that could be googled, I really wish they'd go away.
Though, some of the repeated threads are understandable. Usually the poster has a slightly different situation which warrants creation of a new thread, or resurrecting a dead old one.

Hmm... I seem to rambling on and on now. Perhaps I'll quit while I'm ahead.
ComputerKing 3rd July 2007, 22:51 Quote
can one of you help me to fix that thing ! at my first post at this page ???

Is that normal or not ????????
Jamie 3rd July 2007, 22:55 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveyG
Small bug - if you search and no results are found you get $displayCommon added to the text regarding the error.

http://www.clanbbw.com/publicimg/data/images/fj87ghf89jr.jpg

Thanks for spotting that, it seems vBulletin has changed the way phrases work
Jamie 3rd July 2007, 22:56 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Computerking
can one of you help me to fix that thing ! at my first post at this page ???

Is that normal or not ????????

Please check your control panel to see if it is still broken.
ComputerKing 3rd July 2007, 22:57 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie
Please check your control panel to see if it is still broken.

Still broken...
dragon2309 3rd July 2007, 23:12 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by ozstrike
It's not like they're saying it will NEVER EVER EVER CHANGE. All they're saying is that it needs a little time to mature before people get used to it. It's like anything new, people just don't like adjusting.
No, you see, thats what they all said at the beginnign, then people started being honest about not liking it, and now we get this from RTT...
Quote:
Originally Posted by RTT
Of course not unless we decide to change back (unlikely, frankly, having gone this far) or separate some of the forums out in the future if necessary.
So whats the point of all this, absolutely nothing, might aswell close the thread aswell RTT, seeing as you closed to poll which was effectively just another way for user to express their opinions.
KMS-oul 3rd July 2007, 23:21 Quote
I must admit I am getting more and more use to the system. I do prefer the old look but if it gets more people posting and noticing threads then it's great. I think generally people don't like change, especially with old time members like myself who have been here for years. Bit was the first forum I ever joined and the only forum that I have stayed with for such a long time, it has amazing community and seems to have the perfect balance with rules. I guess when the change happened I was upset because of nostalgic reasons and didn't really offer any constructive criticism. For that I am sorry and even though the poll is over I would like to retract my 'no'. Cheers for all the hard work.
ComputerKing 3rd July 2007, 23:27 Quote
YAY WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT... Hiern you the PRO!!! Thankssss for fix that :D ;);)
hobbs 3rd July 2007, 23:59 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragon2309
No, you see, thats what they all said at the beginnign, then people started being honest about not liking it, and now we get this from RTT...


So whats the point of all this, absolutely nothing, might aswell close the thread aswell RTT, seeing as you closed to poll which was effectively just another way for user to express their opinions.

ditto. RTT what is the point of this thread? I dont get why you can accept your loss and just change it back. And I really believe that you dont care what the community thinks, you will do what you want to do.

@RTT:Oh and next time please dont call me a whiny 15 year old, you dont know who i am, youve never met me. I dont care what you think of me, keep it to yourself nextime.
RTT 4th July 2007, 00:19 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragon2309
What?? but you just spent the few posts before that one saying the whole point of this forum change was to let persuade or help bit-tech readers to find threads they wouldnt normally read. Now its changed and the tagging system is supposed to not count anymore...

:? All I said was that you'll probably end up starting to recognise the tags without really looking at them - meaning that your eyes will be drawn to topics that you're interested in without having to really look at the thread title. Topics you're not interested in, for the most part, you'll skip past - but some you won't, and maybe you'll end up reading and contributing to other stuff that you wouldn't normally see. That's all I said :)
Quote:
RTT, i havent been here all that long, maybe half a year max (active), and i don't know who you are, an admin? i don't know, so i hope my views are unbiased. But your comments (whether your as high as an admin or not) are just smacking bit-tech users in the face constantly. Now reaching over 400 posts of complaints, suggestions, tips and opinions and all you've summarized towards the end of it (expeically by closing the poll and removing the results) is that you don't actually care what we think about the new system because its staying.

It doesn't matter who I am. Sorry if any posts came across as brash; only one was intentionally brash and it was solely directed towards the inane stuff that hobbs decided to post.
Quote:
sitting high in your throne dictating how we should use a forum.

Feel free to use it in any way you wish; i'm not dictating anything here. I posted once or twice detailing how we think the new forums should be used, and how you may come to start using them based on how people on other forums with tagging systems tend to use the system.
Quote:
And another thing, you cant pull the "You must have never run a forum before"

Again, that was all directed at hobbs...
Quote:
And yes, as a last point, i have psoted in this thread already expressing my dislike to the new system, as with everyone else, but i didnt mind the post getting lost in 20 pages as long as someone up top read it and took it on board, well whoop di doo, looks like no one gave two craps about what anyone said

Not true. If it doesn't work then we'll try something else - whether that is rolling back to how it was, changing tags, splitting forums, creating new ones, whatever. We've got to give it more time yet. Given how much effort has gone into this so far in terms of man hours, there's no bloody way that on a whim, after only 4 days, we're just going to decide it was all a waste of time and change it all back. :) That is what i meant when I said it was unlikely we will be changing back (at this stage).
whisperwolf 4th July 2007, 00:22 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbs
ditto. RTT what is the point of this thread? I dont get why you can accept your loss and just change it back. And I really believe that you dont care what the community thinks, you will do what you want to do.

The point of this thread is for constructive feedback, and some things have been actioned. tech support now has filters for hardware software and apple instead of 4 filters for questions. Statements along the lines of, its different and I don't like it, don't really help anyone.
I do wish the staff would put up a list of things they are now looking at changing due to the feedback from this thread though and things that have already been actioned. it might stop some people thinking the thread is not beeing used
mushky 4th July 2007, 00:29 Quote
So far I'm loving the new style. I can only see it getting better too. Good work ;)
RTT 4th July 2007, 00:33 Quote
Cheers mushky :)
dragon2309 4th July 2007, 01:03 Quote
@ RTT - ok, you explained yourself well. Maybe i over-reacted a bit in that post too, if i sounded angry, i apologise, but it was probably because i was angry. I can understand that things take time to settle in, i dont have problems with that. Maybe it was me reading your posts wrong but it seemed like nothing was being tken on board, which is what got me annoyed.

But nevermind now, let's see how it pan's out

dragon2309 ;)
Arthur2Sheds 4th July 2007, 01:19 Quote
Wow.

Let's all just take it easy and give it a chance. Every time bit makes a change, people get huffy and act like 3 year olds, and then it all settles down and life is good again.

Most people don't have a clue what it's like to run a forum. Even a small one can be difficult, much less one this size.

And regardless of whether you like the design or not, the price is right.

Keep up the good work, guys.
pendragon 4th July 2007, 03:24 Quote
really, the only thing that will drive me away from this forum is the people posting on it... if we can all refrain from name-calling and insults, I think we might just be able to work something out.... just my $.02

edit: oh... btw... i dig the new highlighting on the threads index.. that's keen. ;)
Tyinsar 4th July 2007, 06:37 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by whisperwolf
The point of this thread is for constructive feedback, and some things have been actioned. tech support now has filters for hardware software and apple instead of 4 filters for questions. Statements along the lines of, its different and I don't like it, don't really help anyone.
I do wish the staff would put up a list of things they are now looking at changing due to the feedback from this thread though and things that have already been actioned. it might stop some people thinking the thread is not beeing used
I mostly agree with you but I'm not sure that a list of changes they're looking at making would be constructive:

"...but you said you were going to change that!"

"No, we were only thinking of it but decided not to."

"But you said..."

(repeat ad nauseam)

However, as you say, Things have kept changing and improving. (I'm still not sure that all of the changes have been for the better but still I definitely see ongoing tweeks and all the ones I've noticed, since the change, have been good)
DougEdey 4th July 2007, 08:04 Quote
I've given up arguing about it, removing the thread replies indicator column was about as close this new system would go to reducing the images, the colour coding is working now that I understand it (except in the Scan Subforum, the legend shows everything except one as being white) and Jamie fixed the style bugs.

I use the light theme at work (because it doesn't like the dark theme for some reason at all) and the dark theme at home, I prefer the dark scheme as the light one hurts my eyes now that I code in vi on black terminals.

I personally customised the filter images as previously mentioned to suit my own personal style.

RTT/Jamie: not sure who sorted it out, but thankyou for multiple filtering, it's allowed me to customise my personal forum index into Hardware, Software, A/V, Trading UK and Trading US subforums without loosing any of the "last post by" for the original Hardware & Software and Trading forums.

Great addition with the UK and US flags to split the Trading forum up aswell, though I personally have placed these on the index beneath the Trading section.

The only (very minor things now) are:
What is the filter tag "link" envisioned for? Is it just for every single link? In which case it's not really going to be easy to find if, for instance, I want to look for anything related to motherboards, and someone links to a review, if that is classed as "link" it won't show up under hardware, and despite the fact I may not be looking specifically for an external link, it may be within my interest to click that link and find out about it.

The Help tag in H&S (Hardware & Software): surely this would fall under the header of tech support? Request/Question would cover any "Reccomend me this..."

Tech Support still has too many tags: what is the difference between "****!", "Help", "n00b" and "question"? There's "Hardware", "Software" and "Apple", but what about "*nix" or "Networking"?

Is it possible to have a "POTM Archive" filter to seperare POTM and (obviously) the archive?

Is there a possibility to multi-tag a thread? I.e. I prefer someone in tech support to list problems they have so it makes it easier to know what's been solved and whether errors cascade, so a single thread could be related to "Hardware" and "Software"
whisperwolf 4th July 2007, 10:04 Quote
is the colour coding threads still working, only seeing purple(new posts) and white (no new posts) on my works laptop and the key at the bottom is all one colour as apposed to the 4or 5 colours last night.

Edit :- oh and doug what multiple filtering?
WireFrame 4th July 2007, 10:43 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nath
Is it possible for you to provide feedback without being an ungrateful arse? Because that would be like super cool.
I'm not sure. Is it possible for you to reply without resorting to name-calling? It DOES lend a lot of weight to your arguement, but somehow I'm still unswayed.

The reason I put my question in caps is because it had been ignored twice previously.
Frankly, this discussion is going nowhere. We now have two subsections on the forum, one with all the stuff you used to read, all hodge-podged together with "filters" to make the whole thing a lot Easier" to find the stuff you want, although you're bombarded with all the carp you DONT want aswell, and then the other, corporate forum, where you can talk to the (nice, friendly, helpful, but ultimately corporate) people from Scan.

At least merge the FS forums so that if you click UK, you can see Wanted AND For Sale?! (same with US?)

Nobody is going to change it back cos "they've come this far". Frankly, if experienced forum users have to "learn" how to navigate this wicked new system, how will n00bs get to grips with it? I can't believe you divided up GENERAL discussion into subtopics. THATS THE IDEA OF GENERAL! AARRGGHH!

This whole thread is a waste of space. Its just a beta-feedback thread to iron out the bugs, not a debate on whether we should stay with the new design or not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RTT
If I cared about the meaningless figures I could have rigged them...
Good to see you rate the opinion of Bit-Tech community members highly then. You put up a poll, which doesn't go your way, pull it, and describe the opinion of Bit-tech members as "meaningless". Thats real nice. If you don't care, why ask?


I'm not asking for a miracle. All I'm saying is it would be nice if users had the oprion of viewing the forums the old way.
DougEdey 4th July 2007, 10:49 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by whisperwolf
Edit :- oh and doug what multiple filtering?
Quote:
Originally Posted by WireFrame
At least merge the FS forums so that if you click UK, you can see Wanted AND For Sale?! (same with US?)

These can be answered the same, look in the Trading forum at the moment, on the left of the filters there are two flags, one UK, one US.

Click on one of those flags, all the UK or US filters are shown together.
Hiren 4th July 2007, 10:56 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by WireFrame
All I'm saying is it would be nice if users had the oprion of viewing the forums the old way.

It's already been mentioned this isn't a option we are (presently) considering until we have let the new forum run a bit to see how it goes. Four days really isn't long enough to draw any major long term conclusions.

Changes have already been made based on this thread. So calling it a "waste" is a tad harsh.

As DougEdey already mention FS/FT can now be filterd by US and UK.

Would be nice if everyone was a bit more patient.
Glider 4th July 2007, 11:04 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by WireFrame
<load of crap>
Please, do me a favour, if you hate it so much here, leave... Stop posting, take up fishing as a hobby or so? You say Staff ignores your questions, well, you seem quite good at ignoring what they say too, so that's nothing more then fair I guess... I have yet to see 1 constructive remark from you about the new structure...

People like you ruin the community for people that do give the new system a chance...
DougEdey 4th July 2007, 11:05 Quote
I will apologise for my original ranting about how I hated the style, those issues which made me hate it have been changed. However I still stand by my statement that beta testing should have occured to solve the other niggles beforehand.
cjmUK 4th July 2007, 11:07 Quote
If this were government, the Minister for Forum Development would have been 'spending more time with his family'.

The only sensible option is to roll back to the old forums, but run the new forums under beta.bit-tech.net. After a few weeks of further development, we could lock down the new version and run it as a pilot. After a few weeks you can compare traffic going to each version, and thus make a decision on which way to go...

But it involves the powers-that-be swallowing their pride, so I don't think it will happen.
JADS 4th July 2007, 11:08 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glider
Please, do me a favour, if you hate it so much here, leave...

Why should we? Some of us have been posting here a long time and truly hate the new layout. I must admit to being a bit baffled why the code can't be altered to to allow users to pick how they want to see the forums?
cjmUK 4th July 2007, 11:08 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glider
Please, do me a favour, if you hate it so much here, leave... Stop posting, take up fishing as a hobby or so? You say Staff ignores your questions, well, you seem quite good at ignoring what they say too, so that's nothing more then fair I guess... I have yet to see 1 constructive remark from you about the new structure...

Pot kettle black?

Glider, stop telling people to stop visiting here. As I've said before, one of the stated aims of the changes were to create more traffic, not less.
Jamie 4th July 2007, 11:09 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by WireFrame

This whole thread is a waste of space. Its just a beta-feedback thread to iron out the bugs, not a debate on whether we should stay with the new design or not.

Good to see you rate the opinion of Bit-Tech community members highly then. You put up a poll, which doesn't go your way, pull it, and describe the opinion of Bit-tech members as "meaningless". Thats real nice. If you don't care, why ask?

No this thread is very useful to us, even if we don't reply to every post I can tell you that we are reading every one and taking it in. Nobody is being ignored and lots of good suggestions have already been made.

If you take the time to read this thread you will notice that I put the poll up, not RTT. You will also notice that the poll was added after quite a few pages of comments had already been made. I said when I added the poll we prefer opinions rather than numbers. There are people who might have voted to change it back but now are getting to grips with the system and are giving positive feedback and letting us know how they would like to see it improved further.

When you've got something new to say by all means post, but I can tell you now, you're previous posts have already been read and taken in so reposting you opinions does not help us in the slightest.
Glider 4th July 2007, 11:17 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by JADS
Why should we? Some of us have been posting here a long time and truly hate the new layout. I must admit to being a bit baffled why the code can't be altered to to allow users to pick how they want to see the forums?
Only Jamie can answer this with certainty, but I think underneath the forum has changed quite a lot, and going back isn't that easy...

And why would people like WireFrame leave? Well, communities thrive through user input and contributions, and whining like a spoiled brat saying it isn't good anymore, and calling the Staff dictators, doesn't contribute a bit. I'd rather remove rotten apples from a basket then let them infect the whole lot...
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjmUK
But it involves the powers-that-be swallowing their pride, so I don't think it will happen.
I don't think the Staff is to pride to roll back if needed, but at the moment a few are complaining, while the ones (like Doug) that give the system a chance see the benefits... Ok, we all know the system isn't 100% ready, but Rome wasn't built in a day either... I totally support their stance on the facts. Give it some time, grow into it, and then evaluate...
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjmUK
Pot kettle black?

Glider, stop telling people to stop visiting here. As I've said before, one of the stated aims of the changes were to create more traffic, not less.
Please, read my posts... I made a lot of suggestions...

And I think the staff members are the only ones that can measure the traffic... So leave the evaluating to them...
WireFrame 4th July 2007, 11:23 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glider
I have yet to see 1 constructive remark from you about the new structure...
People like you ruin the community for people that do give the new system a chance...
If I could find any of the other subforums I used to frequent, I'd gladly go there. "Constructive comments" and be bad comments aswell as good ones. It just so happens all mine are bad. Your bizarre grudge against me is starting to grate. I didn't reply to some of your other posts out of respect for you. Don't make me start commenting now....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie
you will notice that I put the poll up, not RTT. You will also notice that the poll was added after quite a few pages of comments had already been made. I said when I added the poll we prefer opinions rather than numbers. There are people who might have voted to change it back but now are getting to grips with the system and are giving positive feedback and letting us know how they would like to see it improved further
Whoever put up / pulled the poll, the opinion that bit-tech user's views are "meaningless" was still stated. If the numbers mean so little, why yank the poll when it started leaning towards over 50% hating the new design? Its like Michael Jackson paying off that kid before the abuse court case, you'll never know the *real* story.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie
even if we don't reply to every post I can tell you that we are reading every one and taking it in
But you're not. You're bugfixing. If you were taking it in, you'd notice lots of people hate the new design and would like the OPTION of setting the formatting back to how it was.

EDIT:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glider
calling the Staff dictators, doesn't contribute a bit. I'd rather remove rotten apples from a basket then let them infect the whole lot...
If you can find that statement from me, I'll give you a grand. If you can't, I'll expect a public apology. Didn't Hitler want to remove those "bad apples" too.....? I am an active member of this community and I contribute a lot to discussions. Just because you don't like what you're reading, doesn't make it wrong.
DougEdey 4th July 2007, 11:25 Quote
Just because people that hate the design are more vocal and tend to scream louder does not mean there are lots of them. On average (Jamie can probably double check) hundreds of unique users visit the site everyday, but only a few are complaining.
Tim S 4th July 2007, 11:25 Quote
75% of the noise is being made by about 10 people...
Krikkit 4th July 2007, 11:25 Quote
Just found an interesting issue, not sure if it's been reported (didn't really feel like reading through 470 posts to find out :p), but it seems that the dark theme doesn't stay when I navigate home in firefox. I've tried the Ctrl + F5, still doesn't work. Weird thing is that if I navigate to the forums front-page via a link, it'll remember.

Another thing is, to be totally honest, I'm not really keen on just how many forums have been mashed together, I know it's supposed to give it a more group-feel by having a big general forum and stuff, but it just feels like too much tbh... Hardware particularily.
Tim S 4th July 2007, 11:26 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krikkit
Just found an interesting issue, not sure if it's been reported (didn't really feel like reading through 470 posts to find out :p), but it seems that the dark theme doesn't stay when I navigate home in firefox. I've tried the Ctrl + F5, still doesn't work. Weird thing is that if I navigate to the forums front-page via a link, it'll remember.

Did you set via the userCP?
Jamie 4th July 2007, 11:27 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krikkit
Just found an interesting issue, not sure if it's been reported (didn't really feel like reading through 470 posts to find out :p), but it seems that the dark theme doesn't stay when I navigate home in firefox. I've tried the Ctrl + F5, still doesn't work. Weird thing is that if I navigate to the forums front-page via a link, it'll remember.

Please check the URL for your home page doesn't have &styleid=## on the end.
Glider 4th July 2007, 11:29 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by WireFrame
If I could find any of the other subforums I used to frequent, I'd gladly go there. "Constructive comments" and be bad comments aswell as good ones. It just so happens all mine are bad. Your bizarre grudge against me is starting to grate. I didn't reply to some of your other posts out of respect for you. Don't make me start commenting now....
Be my guest to do so... Saying "THIS IS BAD, CHANGE IT BACK" isn't constructive at all... But maybe our definitions of constructive are that different.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WireFrame
Whoever put up / pulled the poll, the opinion that bit-tech user's views are "meaningless" was still stated. If the numbers mean so little, why yank the poll when it started leaning towards over 50% hating the new design? Its like Michael Jackson paying off that kid before the abuse court case, you'll never know the *real* story.
The poll was put up because Jamie was fed up with it (it clearly shows in his post about it). If it's reopened I'm sure there will be a noticable difference... Time does change opinions...
Quote:
Originally Posted by WireFrame
But you're not. You're bugfixing. If you were taking it in, you'd notice lots of people hate the new design and would like the OPTION of setting the formatting back to how it was.
Please, listen to the Staff, you expect them to listen to you too right? (or what was this fuss all about?) Changes will be implemented at due time, not 5 days after the rollout... Lots are still in the "OMG I HATE THIS, CHANGE IT BACK" phase, instead of just trying to give it a chance....
RTT 4th July 2007, 11:30 Quote
There's no possible way that we can run two different copies of the forums side by side by the way... :)
Krikkit 4th July 2007, 11:31 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim S
Did you set via the userCP?
I didn't, but having changed it in there too, it still doesn't work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie
Please check the URL for your home page doesn't have &styleid=## on the end.
Nope, just the classic http://forums.bit-tech.net

Another thing that's just (this very minute) happened is that the dark theme doesn't stick at all now, it just goes back to light after every new nav...
Hiren 4th July 2007, 11:32 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by WireFrame
But you're not. You're bugfixing. If you were taking it in, you'd notice lots of people hate the new design and would like the OPTION of setting the formatting back to how it was.

Your not listening either. As many of the staff have already said. Until we have evaluated the impact of the new forum for a while we aren't going to implementing such a option.
Glider 4th July 2007, 11:32 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by RTT
There's no possible way that we can run two different copies of the forums side by side by the way... :)
My vote goes for a whiners forum "old style" and a regular forum "new style"

(For those not sure about it, that was a JOKE!, or maybe it wasn't ;))
WireFrame 4th July 2007, 11:34 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by DougEdey
On average (Jamie can probably double check) hundreds of unique users visit the site everyday, but only a few are complaining.

well, thats flawed. Only a few people are posting in the forums out of the thousands of visitors per day. Whats your point?
Glider 4th July 2007, 11:36 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by WireFrame
well, thats flawed. Only a few people are posting in the forums out of the thousands of visitors per day. Whats your point?
I think I can answer this one for Doug:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim S
75% of the noise is being made by about 10 people...
And a lot are here to read...
WireFrame 4th July 2007, 11:36 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glider
My vote goes for a whiners forum "old style" and a regular forum "new style"
(For those not sure about it, that was a JOKE!, or maybe it wasn't ;))
Yes, another constructive comment. Welcome to my Ignore list.
Ben 4th July 2007, 11:36 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by WireFrame
well, thats flawed. Only a few people are posting in the forums out of the thousands of visitors per day. Whats your point?
You get people like me that don't post very often at all, but do actually like the new design/features so its relevant.
DougEdey 4th July 2007, 11:37 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by WireFrame
well, thats flawed. Only a few people are posting in the forums out of the thousands of visitors per day. Whats your point?

People don't have to post to be a part of a community. You find that a lot of people will simply read the forums to get advice and a lot of the threads that are made will solve their issues. This has happened a lot with tech support.

I don't understand how it's flawed. Any chance you could expand?
Glider 4th July 2007, 11:38 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by WireFrame
Yes, another constructive comment. Welcome to my Ignore list.
The favour is returned... I clearly stated that was a joke... But humour is something you seem to lack too...
Jamie 4th July 2007, 11:49 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krikkit
I didn't, but having changed it in there too, it still doesn't work.


Nope, just the classic http://forums.bit-tech.net

Another thing that's just (this very minute) happened is that the dark theme doesn't stick at all now, it just goes back to light after every new nav...

There are quite a few people browsing with Dark, myself included at the moment. So I hate to say it, but it looks like it might be something to do with your browser. It might be worth having a look at what cookies you are sending and/or clearing them.

I did look in the database and you are definitely set to use Dark and the only place you wont see dark is in the Scan forum.
DougEdey 4th July 2007, 11:50 Quote
Another bug: since the change to UK Bargain and US bargain filters, the original Bargains haven't been converted so they don't have a filter at the moment.
WireFrame 4th July 2007, 11:58 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by DougEdey
On average (Jamie can probably double check) hundreds of unique users visit the site everyday, but only a few are complaining.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DougEdey
I don't understand how it's flawed. Any chance you could expand?
what I'm satying is there is only a msall subset of the hundreds of visitors that ever post, so you can's possibly say who does and doesn't like the forum changes based on what you see. Infact, it is more likely that people look at the new forums, and having never posted, and having no real attachment here, simply never come back. Then you'd never hear their opinion that the changes are disliked.
DougEdey 4th July 2007, 12:01 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by WireFrame
what I'm satying is there is only a msall subset of the hundreds of visitors that ever post, so you can's possibly say who does and doesn't like the forum changes based on what you see.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WireFrame

But you're not. You're bugfixing. If you were taking it in, you'd notice lots of people hate the new design and would like the OPTION of setting the formatting back to how it was.


:D
Krikkit 4th July 2007, 12:02 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie
There are quite a few people browsing with Dark, myself included at the moment. So I hate to say it, but it looks like it might be something to do with your browser. It might be worth having a look at what cookies you are sending and/or clearing them.

I did look in the database and you are definitely set to use Dark and the only place you wont see dark is in the Scan forum.

Hmm... Just closed and reopened FF again, and suddenly it works flawlessly...
WireFrame 4th July 2007, 12:04 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by DougEdey
:D

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. My post goes on to state
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wireframe
Infact, it is more likely that people look at the new forums, and having never posted, and having no real attachment here, simply never come back. Then you'd never hear their opinion that the changes are disliked.
DougEdey 4th July 2007, 12:06 Quote
But you're arguement doesn't make any sense, first you say "look at the numbers", then you say "look at the numbers then add about 10 billion people that don't post and obviously therefore HATE the forums".

People can still use the forums without moaning!

Anyway. Can you sumarise what you want changing back? Subforums? If so, install Greasemonkey for firefox or use opera and enable user script and install http://voidedwarranty.co.uk/Greasemonkey/bitRealForum.user.js
RTT 4th July 2007, 12:08 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krikkit
Hmm... Just closed and reopened FF again, and suddenly it works flawlessly...

Woot :)
WireFrame 4th July 2007, 12:11 Quote
No, you say
Quote:
Originally Posted by doug
"Just because people that hate the design are more vocal and tend to scream louder does not mean there are lots of them. On average (Jamie can probably double check) hundreds of unique users visit the site everyday, but only a few are complaining."
You assume their silence means they LIKE the changes. I'm saying that there are loads of people who come here every day that just say nothing either way. The people that dislike it and post here are speaking and the people that like it and post here are speaking. But to assume that they do like the changes because of their silence is flawed.
DougEdey 4th July 2007, 12:12 Quote
No I assume that their silence means nothing. it's like trying to say "This wind is cold, so it must come from antartica"

Anyway, rather then going too far off-topic. Back to feedback. What is it that you actually dislike and what would you rather it be? Rather then saying I HATE THIS. Say why you hate it and what you would prefer.

That's the difference between moaning and constructive critiscm.
RTT 4th July 2007, 12:14 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by WireFrame
But to assume that they do like the changes because of their silence is flawed.

Of course it is - that's why we've got to give it some time...?
Jamie 4th July 2007, 12:33 Quote
People can vote with their feet, or mouses.
Glider 4th July 2007, 12:34 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by DougEdey
Anyway, rather then going too far off-topic. Back to feedback. What is it that you actually dislike and what would you rather it be? Rather then saying I HATE THIS. Say why you hate it and what you would prefer.

That's the difference between moaning and constructive critiscm.

QFT
ComputerKing 4th July 2007, 12:34 Quote
WOW I love that new highlight system :D:D:D YOU rock Bit tech
Darv 4th July 2007, 13:13 Quote
Is it possible to filter more than one thing at a time. If it was it would make browsing far easier than it is currently. Rather than having to click through every single filter in turn which IMO is just wasted time.

Oh and with the dark theme that new brown / grey highlighting thing for new posts is frankly quite a disgusting colour. Not only that, but it means all the line divisions between the posts and columns can't be seen anymore. Just looks like a big brown /grey splodge IMO. I prefered it just having bold thread titles, surely that's obvious enough.
Gordy 4th July 2007, 13:18 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie
People can vote with their feet, or mouses.

Splendid that's what I will have to do then...
Jamie 4th July 2007, 13:28 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darv
Is it possible to filter more than one thing at a time. If it was it would make browsing far easier than it is currently. Rather than having to click through every single filter in turn which IMO is just wasted time.

Oh and with the dark theme that new brown / grey highlighting thing for new posts is frankly quite a disgusting colour. Not only that, but it means all the line divisions between the posts and columns can't be seen anymore. Just looks like a big brown /grey splodge IMO. I prefered it just having bold thread titles, surely that's obvious enough.

It's a dull yellow and green, there is no brown. If you find it really that disgusting I may be able to allow you to turn it off.

That functionality is already enabled (if you look at the for sale forums). I'm just trying to work out if it would be better to have clicking filters adding to your existing filters or not. Then just filtering by one in turn would require unfilter to be clicked. I shall discuss with the rest of the staff over lunch.
WireFrame 4th July 2007, 13:29 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by DougEdey
Anyway, rather then going too far off-topic. Back to feedback. What is it that you actually dislike and what would you rather it be? Rather then saying I HATE THIS. Say why you hate it and what you would prefer.
That's the difference between moaning and constructive critiscm.

I have said. I dislike the seemingly pointless filtering. General discussion should have general topics in it, so filtering it by rant, youtube, N00B, funny etc etc seems like a pointless exercise. And I have to click on every subforum to see those posts. And General in its current incantation has died. Nobody has posted since the 2nd, and now its the 4th!?!? 2 days with not 1 post in GD?! TRAVESTY!

Seems like excessive meddling. I'll never look at all thise forums, the pictures irritate, it gobbles my 56k bandwidth like a hog, and now I'm just sulking.
WireFrame 4th July 2007, 13:30 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie
It's a dull yellow and green, there is no brown. If you find it really that disgusting I may be able to allow you to turn it off.

That functionality is already enabled (if you look at the for sale forums). I'm just trying to work out if it would be better to have clicking filters adding to your existing filters or not. Then just filtering by one in turn would require unfilter to be clicked. I shall discuss with the rest of the staff over lunch.
FS now includes UK bargains. Which it never did before. we had a bargain room, and a fs / wtd room. Can we have it back like that?
Hiren 4th July 2007, 13:36 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordy
Splendid that's what I will have to do then...

It's dissapointing that long term members won't even give us a week to see how the forums are working and other changes we can make.

Shame that, I always liked your mods Gordy.
RTT 4th July 2007, 13:38 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by WireFrame
And General in its current incantation has died. Nobody has posted since the 2nd, and now its the 4th!?!? 2 days with not 1 post in GD?! TRAVESTY!

what are you talking about now? There is an entire page of threads in GD which have been replied to since the 2nd? :?:?:?
Quote:
Originally Posted by WireFrame
it gobbles my 56k bandwidth like a hog

Do you have your browser cache disabled or something? Once you've got them all, you shouldn't need to re-download them all the time :)
dom_ 4th July 2007, 14:05 Quote
Didn't know 56k even existed any more.
WireFrame 4th July 2007, 14:14 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by RTT
what are you talking about now? There is an entire page of threads in GD which have been replied to since the 2nd? :?:?:?
where? Surely you don't have A "General" subforum of the "General" forum?
http://aycu19.webshots.com/image/21298/2004906205020329990_rs.jpg
DougEdey 4th July 2007, 14:20 Quote
The original General Discussion consisted of: General, youtube, food, beer, photos, question, Rant, link, request, help, n00b, poll and LOL, try clicking here

I've implented it int one of my scripts.
RTT 4th July 2007, 14:44 Quote
General is encapsulated by all topics as indicated by the tags... :)
Darv 4th July 2007, 15:16 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie
It's a dull yellow and green, there is no brown. If you find it really that disgusting I may be able to allow you to turn it off.

That functionality is already enabled (if you look at the for sale forums). I'm just trying to work out if it would be better to have clicking filters adding to your existing filters or not. Then just filtering by one in turn would require unfilter to be clicked. I shall discuss with the rest of the staff over lunch.

Ah I see. I like the multi filter thing (although it would be great if you could pick and choose your own so that you can filter in and out of different things). Although I think the for sale forum is where the tags really work.

The colour definately looks grey on my flatscreen and then brown on my crt. Regardless you still can't see the lines between the columns and posts. I would appreciate it if you could make an option to turn it off.

Also I like the new tags in this section that match the main page. Definately mcuh easier on the eyes ;)
RTT 4th July 2007, 15:18 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darv
I would appreciate it if you could make an option to turn it off.

We're trying our very best to offer this :) vBull is a bit of a bitch to work with at times, but we'll probably be able to get to the bottom of it ;) :)
Darv 4th July 2007, 15:29 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by RTT
We're trying our very best to offer this :) vBull is a bit of a bitch to work with at times, but we'll probably be able to get to the bottom of it ;) :)

Ta. I may not agree with the new forum style yet, but I do appreciate the hard work :D
WireFrame 4th July 2007, 15:33 Quote
so you have a general forum, and a general sub-forum under it. For Generally General posts, I assume?
RTT 4th July 2007, 15:41 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by WireFrame
so you have a general forum, and a general sub-forum under it. For Generally General posts, I assume?

The only reason we have general is because we had to mass-tag all of the existing threads in GD to something. 90% of "general" topics won't really be filed under the "general" tag - hence why we now have a photos tag, a photoshop tag, a question tag, etc etc - we didn't have "question" forums or "photoshop" forums before... :)
WireFrame 4th July 2007, 15:44 Quote
ugh.....
Glider 4th July 2007, 15:55 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by RTT
The only reason we have general is because we had to mass-tag all of the existing threads in GD to something. 90% of "general" topics won't really be filed under the "general" tag - hence why we now have a photos tag, a photoshop tag, a question tag, etc etc - we didn't have "question" forums or "photoshop" forums before... :)
Maybe you could ask if the ones that make a lot of noise in here retag everything correctly, then the general tag is unneeded
RTT 4th July 2007, 15:57 Quote
Haha :D In all seriousness though, the tags we had to have for mass-tagging will be dropped where necessary.
Gordy 4th July 2007, 16:15 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiren
It's dissapointing that long term members won't even give us a week to see how the forums are working and other changes we can make.

Shame that, I always liked your mods Gordy.

Hi I'd rather not, but when the poll allowing people to show their views is removed and the general theme coming back from staff of bit is that its here to stay like it or lump it there isn't much we can do.

I find the forums unusable in there present state. If that stays for a week and then goes back that's great. However the theme from the bit-tech staff is that they like it and therefore it's staying there isn't much I or anyone else can do is there?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie
People can vote with their feet, or mouses.

Jamie's post for example, members can longer vote with their mice so it will have to be feet sadly. :(
Glider 4th July 2007, 16:21 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordy
I find the forums unusable in there present state. If that stays for a week and then goes back that's great. However the theme from the bit-tech staff is that they like it and therefore it's staying there isn't much I or anyone else can do is there?
So the only solution for the flaws in the current design is to go back to the previous one? Going back is hardly a solution at all IMHO...
Bindibadgi 4th July 2007, 16:28 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordy
Hi I'd rather not, but when the poll allowing people to show their views is removed and the general theme coming back from staff of bit is that its here to stay like it or lump it there isn't much we can do.

I find the forums unusable in there present state. If that stays for a week and then goes back that's great. However the theme from the bit-tech staff is that they like it and therefore it's staying there isn't much I or anyone else can do is there?

Jamie's post for example, members can longer vote with their mice so it will have to be feet sadly. :(

Gordy, you've got to push change and stand out from a crowd. Inevitably some people won't like it but you can't please everyone. We are and have been tweaking the system but this obsession by a few of you about a poll filled in by a vocal minority, this soon after changing to prove your point, will do nothing.

We will look at the global statistics and see how it takes, and so far the result is unanimously positive. We are listening to constructive comments and acting on them, but stuff like "change it back" just won't happen and there's no nice way to say that. Just because you're not getting your own way, don't use the big brush to paint us with a "bit-tech staff hates and ignores their community" because it's just simply not the case, and you of all people should know that, bud :(

Change sometimes forces us out of the ruts we love and incites us to adjust our browsing habits, and this is one of them. Previously the forums were stagnant and losing traffic whether it suited you or not, we are moving forward and evolving.
cpemma 4th July 2007, 16:28 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by WireFrame
so you have a general forum, and a general sub-forum under it. For Generally General posts, I assume?
Actually, that shows the "silent majority" are using the tag system and highlighting their 'Rant', 'Question' or 'LoL' threads as such. And sometimes a thread is just a 'General' thread.

Black and White thinking again, Wireframe...
Darv 4th July 2007, 17:14 Quote
Not that I like complaining but the colours have gotten worse. Now the highlighting is really dark, it's actually quite difficult / painful to read. Somewhat like bright red text on a blue background B)
DougEdey 4th July 2007, 17:23 Quote
[pedantic]The PM warning lies. I have 448 PMs and it says I'm 90% full. I'm only 89.6%![/pedantic]
DarkLord7854 4th July 2007, 17:57 Quote
Can't help but think it'd be nice if we could use forum attachments for pics, txts, and so on, of small file size (like.. under 5mbs)
Jamie 4th July 2007, 19:09 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darv
Ah I see. I like the multi filter thing (although it would be great if you could pick and choose your own so that you can filter in and out of different things). Although I think the for sale forum is where the tags really work.

The colour definately looks grey on my flatscreen and then brown on my crt. Regardless you still can't see the lines between the columns and posts. I would appreciate it if you could make an option to turn it off.

Also I like the new tags in this section that match the main page. Definately mcuh easier on the eyes ;)

You can now turn off thread colouring in your CPanel, it's under options called 'Turn off thread colouring'.

Enjoy! ;)
Ramble 4th July 2007, 19:26 Quote
The yellow looks awful. I prefer the colour scheme yesterday, that was a nice positive improvement.
ocha 4th July 2007, 19:31 Quote
not to get too heavily involved but the point I find rather annoying with this forum is that it now takes a long time to get anything done. I check about 4 or 5 of the old forums on a daily basis for updates, previously I was able to see from the main page if things like networking and apple had been updated, now it takes me 2 clicks just to see one of them.

It's not much but it does mean that is unnessacary work to see something that I used to from the front page.

Apart from that I quite like it, it's growing on me at least an is now a lot better with the filters always showing. Thanks for the hard work guys.
dragon2309 4th July 2007, 20:16 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordy
Hi I'd rather not, but when the poll allowing people to show their views is removed and the general theme coming back from staff of bit is that its here to stay like it or lump it there isn't much we can do.

I find the forums unusable in there present state. If that stays for a week and then goes back that's great. However the theme from the bit-tech staff is that they like it and therefore it's staying there isn't much I or anyone else can do is there?



Jamie's post for example, members can longer vote with their mice so it will have to be feet sadly. :(
exactly my views that i've been posting before.

Oh and to whoever it was who said the poll didnt really mean much as it was "filled out by a vocal minority" when i voted there was about 15 votes for no, 10 for yes and somewhere in between that for the "wait a while" option, so as a rough guestimate that would be, what, 36-ish people who voted.... Counting the number of people who are actually posting tin this thread (not all that many more than that number) its actually quite a mojority of active "preachers" that voted in the poll.

I've held off posting again for a day or so to let it settle in, but its not getting any nicer i have to say. It's still annoying as it seems none of the filter tags images get cached, so they re-download every time. And the main point about nothing being anywhere you expect it to be still stands. It now takes time to look in 3-4 possible places, then apply 2-3 filters in each place you look. I, like many opther people , spend in excess of 15 hours a day on a PC and things get done extremely fast, i expect that to carry on into whatever site i go to. This isnt happening here.

And the opint about people now seeing and reading other threads they wouldnt have read before, thats utter crap. end of story, i come here to read and post in the modding and electronics forum, nothing else, now all you've done is virtually hidden those threads inside other sections.

And please don't come back saying quit whining and give some helpful criticism, this is helpful, im not simply saying "it sucks, you all suck, the system sucks, change it back now you n00bs" am i, no, i've said whats wrong with it and i've said why i think that.
Tim S 4th July 2007, 20:21 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragon2309
end of story, i come here to read and post in the modding and electronics forum, nothing else, now all you've done is virtually hidden those threads inside other sections.
Funnily enough, we've actually made your life easier because now you only have to do one click to get ALL of your threads in one place, as modding and electronics threads are in the same forum.
Jamie 4th July 2007, 20:23 Quote
http://forums.bit-tech.net/forumdisplay.php?forumid=2&picon=47,36

There you go, Modding and Electronics ONLY!
DougEdey 4th July 2007, 20:37 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie
http://forums.bit-tech.net/forumdisplay.php?forumid=2&picon=47,36

There you go, Modding and Electronics ONLY!

Shush you! That's our little secret.

I was actually working on a customisable index, which to be honest, is a great advantage of Jamies and RTTs work
dragon2309 4th July 2007, 20:40 Quote
fine, but why are they together, electronics has nothing to do with modding...
Dayains 4th July 2007, 20:42 Quote
I haven't read the whole thread so excuse me if am repeating people. I have to say I find the forums harder work then they used to be it was easy to see when the forums that interest me had new posts or not but now I either have look under a more general forum or a very specific tag...that said and done I still like it here so I'm gonna stay but I preferred how it used to be.
Techno-Dann 4th July 2007, 21:06 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie
You can now turn off thread colouring in your CPanel, it's under options called 'Turn off thread colouring'.

Enjoy! ;)

Thank you! That yellow (which is what it looked like here- sorta a light tan color) was getting a bit annoying, as all it did was mirror the bold/not bold new post indicator.
DougEdey 4th July 2007, 21:30 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragon2309
fine, but why are they together, electronics has nothing to do with modding...

yea they do, most of the stuff in it was about making custom equipment for builds
cpemma 4th July 2007, 22:00 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragon2309
fine, but why are they together, electronics has nothing to do with modding...
I do a lot of moving of threads between the two :|; there's quite an overlap (eg, case lighting), though I'll agree Modding is more the artistic side, Electronics the technical.

One nice feature is the ability to click on any tag in the page and get "more like this". ;) That means having the filter box open by default isn't so important - I'd have default closed, given the CP option.
antiHero 4th July 2007, 23:33 Quote
I found a something that bugs me a bit. Seems like you changed the letter count for location by 1. before I had country and city lined up perfectly but now there is no space any more between the dots and Finland :( Why has that been done and can you change it back?

Thanks
RTT 4th July 2007, 23:39 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by antiHero
I found a something that bugs me a bit. Seems like you changed the letter count for location by 1. before I had country and city lined up perfectly but now there is no space any more between the dots and Finland :( Why has that been done and can you change it back?

Thanks

Sure, will fix this right now. :)

edit: 25 char limit bumped to 40 ;)
pendragon 5th July 2007, 00:54 Quote
Is there any sort of legend for the thread coloring? (i.e. yellow threads = this)
dragon2309 5th July 2007, 02:04 Quote
yeh, its at the bottom of the board index pages
jakenbake 5th July 2007, 05:20 Quote
when i use the filters, i usually click on more than one filter for the entire sub-forum. so fonsr itance, i'll check out all the electronics w/ the electronics filter, then all the modding with the modding filter. but there is no easy way of going back to seeing all the posts together again. any way to fix that?

oh, and change the graphics on the filters. they are horrible to read.
Darv 5th July 2007, 06:44 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie
You can now turn off thread colouring in your CPanel, it's under options called 'Turn off thread colouring'.

Enjoy! ;)

Thanks!! :D
DougEdey 5th July 2007, 07:42 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by jakenbake
when i use the filters, i usually click on more than one filter for the entire sub-forum. so fonsr itance, i'll check out all the electronics w/ the electronics filter, then all the modding with the modding filter. but there is no easy way of going back to seeing all the posts together again. any way to fix that?

Click on the Go button on the forum jump at the bottom right of the thread list.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jakenbake

oh, and change the graphics on the filters. they are horrible to read.

Myself and fr4nk have already done this using a script, install Greasemonkey on Firefox or enable User Scripting on Opera.

http://voidedwarranty.co.uk/Greasemonkey/bitFilterTags.user.js
RTT 5th July 2007, 09:58 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by jakenbake


oh, and change the graphics on the filters. they are horrible to read.

Yep, they are. Didn't quite work out to have graphics and words on the filters. We're going to neaten them up shortly ;)
antiHero 5th July 2007, 10:01 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by RTT
Sure, will fix this right now. :)

edit: 25 char limit bumped to 40 ;)

Thanks a bunch!

EDIT: Now it doesnt work at all anymore :(
Jamie 5th July 2007, 10:01 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by jakenbake
when i use the filters, i usually click on more than one filter for the entire sub-forum. so fonsr itance, i'll check out all the electronics w/ the electronics filter, then all the modding with the modding filter. but there is no easy way of going back to seeing all the posts together again. any way to fix that?

oh, and change the graphics on the filters. they are horrible to read.

When you filter by clicking on a tag you will see an 'unfilter' link at the top of the column. That removes all filters in that forum.
RTT 5th July 2007, 10:39 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by antiHero
Thanks a bunch!

EDIT: Now it doesnt work at all anymore :(

I just tried to force it manually for you but I stuffed it up...Bear with me on this one :D

Edit: fixed it for you but it'll break again as soon as you edit your location again ;)
Gordy 5th July 2007, 11:34 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bindibadgi
Gordy, you've got to push change and stand out from a crowd. Inevitably some people won't like it but you can't please everyone. We are and have been tweaking the system but this obsession by a few of you about a poll filled in by a vocal minority, this soon after changing to prove your point, will do nothing.

We will look at the global statistics and see how it takes, and so far the result is unanimously positive. We are listening to constructive comments and acting on them, but stuff like "change it back" just won't happen and there's no nice way to say that. Just because you're not getting your own way, don't use the big brush to paint us with a "bit-tech staff hates and ignores their community" because it's just simply not the case, and you of all people should know that, bud :(

Change sometimes forces us out of the ruts we love and incites us to adjust our browsing habits, and this is one of them. Previously the forums were stagnant and losing traffic whether it suited you or not, we are moving forward and evolving.

It's not the poll that bothered me but how certain people were dealing with the negative feedback. It wasn't exactly like "We take that on board and we will try to come up with something that suits everyone better"

That's not the bit-tech way of the past you've been good to take on bad feedback and take it on the chin.

It's not that I'm not getting my way it's just that every time I try to use the forums for the threads I want to read I end up getting frustrated and annoyed. I read forums for fun and relaxation not to get annoyed, my keyboard doesn't like it :D
Glider 5th July 2007, 11:42 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordy
It's not that I'm not getting my way it's just that every time I try to use the forums for the threads I want to read I end up getting frustrated and annoyed. I read forums for fun and relaxation not to get annoyed, my keyboard doesn't like it :D
Is it that hard? There still is the search function and entering a forum and applying a filter isn't that much different then the old way of entering a forum, subforum and searching for the thread.

The only problem now is that not all threads are tagged correctly, but that's something that time will solve.

This emphasises the need for the posters to correctly tag (and maybe subtag in the future? => Primary tag + Related tags, just an idea) their threads. Something that can't be done with en-masse convertions.
whisperwolf 5th July 2007, 11:55 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glider


The only problem now is that not all threads are tagged correctly, but that's something that time will solve.

This emphasises the need for the posters to correctly tag (and maybe subtag in the future? => Primary tag + Related tags, just an idea) their threads. Something that can't be done with en-masse convertions.

the problem there is that your idea of the correct tag for a thread may not be someone elses idea of the correct tag. It took me a minute to decide this morning if my thread regarding thread colours was either "feedback" that something wasn't working, a "question" about a feature that might or might not be working or a shout for "help" about something that was not working on one of my machines. sometimes theres now to many options.
Jamie 5th July 2007, 12:45 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpemma
One nice feature is the ability to click on any tag in the page and get "more like this". ;) That means having the filter box open by default isn't so important - I'd have default closed, given the CP option.

You can now select to close the filterbox by default in the cpanel.
yodasarmpit 5th July 2007, 12:49 Quote
It's obvious that there has been a major change to the forum structure, which doesn't suit everyone, even I found some things that were not as I would prefer.
Having said that I'm now getting used to the new layout and the navigation works fine, yes I would like to see two of the forum split, and RTT and Jamie said they are looking into these issues.
When constructive criticism is offered I'm sure the guys will take it on board, and it's clear they already have with some of the tweaks made.
Allow them some time to analyze the feedback and make the necessary changes, at the end of the day it's to the admins benefit to listen and respond, so long as the criticism/praise is constructive.

When you make an unreasoned post ("I don't like it, change it back") don't expect a reasoned reply.

I appreciate the work the guys are putting in, and I'm confident given a little time we will mostly all be happy with the forum.

And just so wireframe knows, I'm not sucking up or trying for a mods position, I just realize from experience how difficult it is to implement a big change to a system
jakenbake 5th July 2007, 12:55 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie
When you filter by clicking on a tag you will see an 'unfilter' link at the top of the column. That removes all filters in that forum.

ahhh. thanks. i was looking under the rest of the filters...
whisperwolf 5th July 2007, 12:56 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by whisperwolf
It took me a minute to decide this morning if my thread regarding thread colours was either "feedback" that something wasn't working, a "question" about a feature that might or might not be working or a shout for "help" about something that was not working on one of my machines. sometimes theres now to many options.

Crikey that was altered pretty quickly to just having a feedback filter, thank you for stopping my mind from hurting.
:D
Glider 5th July 2007, 13:00 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by WireFrame
<Mindless ranting>
I don't know why I clicked view thread for your post, but I allready regret it.... That's why I will reported it after this post... If you have a problem with me, tough luck for you..

Anyway, if you read this entire thread you'll see that I had my share of remarks, suggestions, bugs... But unlike you I do like the new layout and see the benifits for it. I think I've proven myself in a lot of cases to be quite opposed to the mods. I've had my share of "battles" with spec :) but unlike him, you can't cope that someone goes in against your opinion.

If you want to continue your ranting against me, be sure to PM me, but stop trashing this thread.
LeMaltor 5th July 2007, 13:07 Quote
It looks horrible, theres fecking adverts everywhere, and I cant find anything I want, well done all the same.
RTT 5th July 2007, 13:07 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by yodasarmpit

I'm not sucking up or trying for a mods position, I just realize from experience how difficult it is to implement a big change to a system

Yes you are, you suck up, I know what you're up to. And it's dead easy to please 30,000 people - what are you talking about? :D:D
yodasarmpit 5th July 2007, 13:10 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by RTT
Yes you are, you suck up, I know what you're up to. And it's dead easy to please 30,000 people - what are you talking about? :D:D
LOL, your forum sucks, change it back :D
DougEdey 5th July 2007, 13:11 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by RTT
Yes you are, you suck up, I know what you're up to. And it's dead easy to please 30,000 people - what are you talking about? :D:D

He's gearing up for his 10000th post present.

EDIT: There's an annoying bug that if I do a quick reply, then use forum jump to go back to the thread overview, my post is marked as unread.
Glider 5th July 2007, 13:12 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by yodasarmpit
LOL, your forum sucks, change it back :D
Deja vu... :D And you aren't on my ignore list... Posting under 2 nicks is forbidden, you should know that ;)
WireFrame 5th July 2007, 13:17 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glider
Anyway, if you read this entire thread you'll see that I had my share of remarks, suggestions, bugs... But unlike you I do like the new layout and see the benifits for it. I think I've proven myself in a lot of cases to be quite opposed to the mods. I've had my share of "battles" with spec :) but unlike him, you can't cope that someone goes in against your opinion.
Its pointless argueling with you. Either deliberately or by poor translation, you seem to miss the important points, and instead turn it into a "you have a problem, deal with it, the you'll like the changes" thread. Thats just stupid. And twice I've edited what I *really* want to say to you. GRRRR.
RTT 5th July 2007, 13:21 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by WireFrame
You suck willy. Which isn't a bad thing. I'm not homophobic or anything. But its true. Willy.

That's enough of that thanks mate... i'll refrain from removing your post this time only. I don't want to go down the route of deleting posts
Hiren 5th July 2007, 13:24 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeMaltor
It looks horrible, theres fecking adverts everywhere,

What are you on about? The number of adverts displayed hasn't changed. In fact it's the same it's always been.:(
WireFrame 5th July 2007, 13:29 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by RTT
That's enough of that thanks mate... i'll refrain from removing your post this time only. I don't want to go down the route of deleting posts
Actually, I didn't mean to post that. Hence my REAL reply. If you hadn't mentioned it, it would have gone unnoticed.
DougEdey 5th July 2007, 13:30 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by WireFrame
Actually, I didn't mean to post that. Hence my REAL reply. If you hadn't mentioned it, it would have gone unnoticed.

I very nearly reported it for being offensive.
RTT 5th July 2007, 13:33 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by WireFrame
Actually, I didn't mean to post that.

then why did you post it?
LeMaltor 5th July 2007, 13:37 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiren
What are you on about? The number of adverts displayed hasn't changed. In fact it's the same it's always been.:(

Was more an impression looking at the forum than as to what has changed :) Is there no option to allow us to pay to get rid of the adverts?
specofdust 5th July 2007, 13:38 Quote
Could we perhaps get back to the point at hand here? This seems to have degenerated into sniping.

Wireframe: From what I've read of the thread (near all) you seem to basicly feel that the best thing that could happen to the forum would be for it to revert to how it was before. Given that this is plainly not happening in the near future (if ever) do you have any suggestions for actually improving what we've got? And please dude, try to keep yourself calm :) I love getting into a good arguement with you, and I don't wanna see you getting a temp ban or 'owt.
WireFrame 5th July 2007, 14:01 Quote
*hugs spec*

RTT - Posted by accident. Edited quickly when realised.
Ok, It just seems to me that there are too many little subcategories, and too much overlap. The navigation I don't like, but that preference, and I can deal. Serious discussion, general and eveything seems to have been lumped together. "YOU CAN FILTER!" you cry, but I filtered "general" to get to the "GD" board, and nobody's posting. Its a mishmash. Whats the difference between "LOL" AND "n00b"? When have we ever had a post about food? Or beer? Or education? What does "Link" encompass? Anything with a link in it? Or a post that consists of a link, and no text?

GD is dead. Go to general and there are all sorst of posts, serious and other. Go to general/general, and its empty.
What you really need to do is separate frivolous and non-frivolous posts. Thats what was so good about general(frivolous) / serious discussion. Then you knew what you were getting and what you were in the mood for. I would probably like it better if something like that were implemented. Serious could include "Politics", "poll", education (more likely in serious than frivolous) and obviously "serious". You could also have "news" as a new filter, i guess.
That way, people in general get general, and theree is a separate forum for more serious discussion.
Callum 5th July 2007, 14:12 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glider
This emphasises the need for the posters to correctly tag (and maybe subtag in the future? => Primary tag + Related tags, just an idea) their threads. Something that can't be done with en-masse convertions.

Maybe it's just me... but I always thought that was the whole point of tags, as opposed to folders. So that you can tag an item as belonging to several different categories. I thought that was the difference between taggin something, and putting it in a folder.

That would be the first change on my list. Not that I'm all that bothered... I don't find the forum any harder to use than before.

Actually... thinking about it, I may be one of the few who has to click less times. Before I opened feedback and photography in tabs, and then opened POTM in another tab, and then opened all new threads in tabs. (3 clicks plus number of new threads) Now I open bit-tech and Art and Photography, and open all feedback threads, and all threads in the Art forum. (2 clicks plus number of new threads) Although I do now have to spend absolutely aaaaaages to see if a thread is feedback or not before I open it. It's a real pain.

(And yes, I may have a slightly strange selection of threads that I look at, given that I don't own a camera or use photoshop, and barely use the rest of the forums any more for the feedback to actually matter to me :P)
specofdust 5th July 2007, 14:12 Quote
I see what you're saying Wireframe. Subforums may have lead to lots of dead forums, but at least you know what you were getting. Would a smaller number of filters not mostly sort out this problem though? You're right about the general filter, there's hardly anything there - so imo that is something that needs to be addressed. But if it can end up so that most people have a good idea of what filter to apply and that most filters are felt neccesary by the community, would that not be a good solution?

See myself I just kind of assume that there'll be a lot of tweaking, that filters will be added and removed, and looking at the overall number available that the number of filters will probably lower.
WireFrame 5th July 2007, 14:15 Quote
yes, I'm not against filters per se, but there are definitly too mnay atm. And GD and SD need a distinct split.
yodasarmpit 5th July 2007, 14:15 Quote
General discussion is active and alive, people are choosing to use the varried tags available from within that perticular forum, not just the GD tag.
I agree that serious discussion would be better placed on it's own and hardware seperated from software.
whisperwolf 5th July 2007, 14:19 Quote
do what i've done 3 multi thread filters

General

Serious

entertainment

Would be nice if these were set as filters on page though like the US and uk filters in for sale section, just so they dont go wonky if new tag are added or deleted

oh and having just done insert link in the editing box, I dont like the fact that it no longer asks for what text to display, as I edited the wrong part first.
WireFrame 5th July 2007, 14:47 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by whisperwolf
do what i've done 3 multi thread filters

General

Serious
See, thats how they SHOULD be. Two rooms, one serious, one general.
oddball walking 5th July 2007, 15:37 Quote
Why is the a poll tag as when the is one it is stated in the title? also polls have subjects which could be shown by the tag e.g. modding.
Krikkit 5th July 2007, 16:08 Quote
Found a new thing to ask you kind chaps - will atrack be back at some point? I know you're busy with everything atm, I was just wondering if it's on the list of "to-do". :)
RTT 5th July 2007, 16:16 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krikkit
Found a new thing to ask you kind chaps - will atrack be back at some point? I know you're busy with everything atm, I was just wondering if it's on the list of "to-do". :)

atrack? :|
Bindibadgi 5th July 2007, 16:34 Quote
atrack tag: winamp pluging telling you what people are playing. I didn't think it's been used for like 3 years? OMG the site is still running: http://atrack.xaprief.com/
Hiren 5th July 2007, 16:55 Quote
[atrack]username[/atrack] has stopped working. Although I wonder if this is atrack not working with the version of VB?
Krikkit 5th July 2007, 16:57 Quote
Well it kept working after the last update, and the site's still alive, so I kept it in. :)
ultrastapler 5th July 2007, 17:01 Quote
What's with the new colours for stickys, read and unread topics? As if it wasn't horrendously garish enough with the tag images.
Hiren 5th July 2007, 17:05 Quote
You can turn thread colouring off in your CP.
RTT 5th July 2007, 17:12 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by ultrastapler
What's with the new colours for stickys, read and unread topics? As if it wasn't horrendously garish enough with the tag images.

As Hiren said - if you go into your User CP -> Edit Options -> Thread Display Options section, at the bottom, you can turn off thread highlighting. ;)
ultrastapler 5th July 2007, 17:13 Quote
that's excellent news
pendragon 5th July 2007, 17:48 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragon2309
yeh, its at the bottom of the board index pages

edit: scratch that, I found `em ;)
Dayains 5th July 2007, 17:56 Quote
When I change to the Dark forum style it only lasts until I open a new page, I guess this could be a cookie problem or something on my side...not sure though.

EDIT: Ignore that it's working now!
EDIT2: Not working again :S
completemadness 5th July 2007, 18:11 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by specofdust
Could we perhaps get back to the point at hand here? This seems to have degenerated into sniping.
well said

this new forum system is still only like 1 week old, give it another week (or 3), see if you prefer it, as has been said, this is all still a work in progress, and most of the comments made here by users have been listened to and fixed/planned to be fixed
Hiren 5th July 2007, 18:18 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeMaltor
Is there no option to allow us to pay to get rid of the adverts?

No, the staff are strongly against ever charging for content.
cpemma 5th July 2007, 20:43 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie
You can now select to close the filterbox by default in the cpanel.
Isn't Jamie the mostest wonderfullest person in the whole world... ;)
cpemma 5th July 2007, 20:49 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by DougEdey
...my post is marked as unread.
So, nobody reads your posts... :p
KMS-oul 5th July 2007, 21:25 Quote
I also agree that the general and serious are better if they were split. A lot of the serious discussion threads are sensitive in nature. Sadly I remember the memorial post for Ryan Garside girlfriend. It would be a shame if it was next to post that were of the tasteless kind and we all know that few of the threads in general have been of that kind. I have always viewed both forums completely seperate.
Bogomip 6th July 2007, 03:07 Quote
I would quite like the motors in a differant section too, all i see is motors motors motors :( I never knew motors were so popular because i never went to the motors forum - because im not interested in motors :)

See where I am going with this ? :)

Anyway, apart from that i have no complaints (except wondering where programming questions go) - still would like multi-filter option and having the forum remember what filters you like, though.
jakenbake 6th July 2007, 03:56 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bogomip
Anyway, apart from that i have no complaints (except wondering where programming questions go) - still would like multi-filter option and having the forum remember what filters you like, though.

that would be uh-mazing
mrlanrat 6th July 2007, 07:04 Quote
Meh, I liked it the old way...
Mister_Tad 6th July 2007, 07:32 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrlanrat
Meh, I liked it the old way...

Great, but constructive criticism may be more helpful
whisperwolf 6th July 2007, 10:42 Quote
Of all the tags, there are two which continue to annoy me, the Motors one, because to me it looks like a Movie reel, is located right next to other entertainment tags and I keep clicking expecting movie threads and end up reading about stuck keys in petrol caps, and the politics tag which seems to be really hard to read for some reason.
Jamie 6th July 2007, 10:45 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by whisperwolf
Of all the tags, there are two which continue to annoy me, the Motors one, because to me it looks like a Movie reel, is located right next to other entertainment tags and I keep clicking expecting movie threads and end up reading about stuck keys in petrol caps, and the politics tag which seems to be really hard to read for some reason.

We will be updating and offering alternative tags in the near future.

I will also be investigating a way for people to save their fav tag selection in forums.
RTT 6th July 2007, 11:00 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bogomip
except wondering where programming questions go

http://forums.bit-tech.net/forumdisplay.php?forumid=30&picon=18 :)
Particle Man 6th July 2007, 12:36 Quote
I like the new layout..... new is good
trigger 6th July 2007, 12:50 Quote
Okay, not sure whether anyone will see this, but I've got a little further with the signature size bug. If I remove the RIGHT tags in my current sig, the SIZE="1" tags work, but if I leave the RIGHT tags in, then only the left justified text gets sized properly.

edit: Right, I've put the SIZE="1" tag after the RIGHT tag, and that seems to have done the trick!
ComputerKing 6th July 2007, 13:00 Quote
The site is working very good! well done guys! I love it
<A88> 6th July 2007, 15:20 Quote
Didn't you start a thread over how much you disliked it?

<A88>
WireFrame 6th July 2007, 16:54 Quote
no, it was his life he hated, not the forum.

Any news on separating GD from SD as two separate forums?
RTT 6th July 2007, 17:05 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by WireFrame
Any news on separating GD from SD as two separate forums?

It's staying as it is for the time being.
OneSeventeen 6th July 2007, 17:06 Quote
pros
  1. I can list all of the main forum segments on one page (after scrolling down a bit)
  2. One click gets me into most of my favorite sections (Development, Open Source, Windows, Networking, etc.)
  3. Grouping sections draws attention to some posts that may be difficult to place, so if I post about Open Source Windows Software in "Open Source", the people looking for Windows will still see my post.
  4. looks cleaner
cons
  1. It takes 2 clicks to display only development or only open source, etc.
  2. More people are complaining.
  3. Learning Curve

The cons aren't big, and can be solved by:
  1. Bookmarking the filters I prefer
  2. Growing up
  3. keep using the forum until it feels right.

So overall I would say "yes", this is a definite improvement that I hated the first time I saw it, then loved it after I started thinking. Thinking is the key here... I can't be as lazy as before, but I'm sure I'll get over it and will appreciate the ability to add more tags quicker than adding more sub-forums.
WireFrame 6th July 2007, 17:34 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by RTT
It's staying as it is for the time being.
You don't say. :|
Pygo 6th July 2007, 17:48 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by RTT
It's staying as it is for the time being.

After using it for a little while, I still really want the old forums back.
Maybe in a year or so I might get used to the pictographs, but I don't really like the idea.


I don't mind you playing with the crayons though. In fact I implore you to play all that you like. :D
ozstrike 6th July 2007, 19:01 Quote
Some people have been complaining that the "general" section seems dead. This isn't because it is dead, it's because the old tags from GD were given this tag, and have died due to old age. Most of the new threads that would normally go in GD have been given more specific tags.
Bogomip 6th July 2007, 20:02