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When will we have enough Wattage?

When will we have enough Wattage?

I'll take two, please. And what's that about a personal power station?

Thermaltake, maker of car accessories PC gear, has not only a 1500W PSU that was initially shown at CeBit(enhoff) on demonstration, but it's also now showing off a 2000W PSU. We took pictures of another very comical 2000W PSU previously at CeBit, that required an external unit the size of a fridge and two power adapters to spread the load from the socket.

Inquiring about the potential hazard of overpowering the socket, the poor lass had to check the manual for which only the rated power usage for the 1500W was listed. After flicking through the pages we found it can suck down 120Amps of power, so a 2000W should require nothing short of a 160A!

Unfortunately on finding out this information and seeing my jaw hit the floor, she inquired, "Is that a lot?". I tried to put it down to the language barrier but it's still very worrying that Thermaltake seems unaware of the consequences of such a large PSU on a home user's power grid, let alone the cost of running it.

Silverstone had a new 1200W unit to offer, and after chatting to a couple of the guys there the ethos seems to be quietness, even if it's at the expense of a leaving it a little hotter because it's "generally a bit colder in Europe". Thankfully us cold blooded Europeans don't require heated houses either.

Despite this, they assured me that it's far from being too hot, and should work very efficiently. The PSU uses a large fan with a longer than standard chassis, although it's still not quite as big as the Enermax Galaxy.

Finally we dropped by BeQuiet, German PSU manufacturer, who was also demonstrating its new 1000W DarkPower Pro. The PSU is modular and has been compacted into a standard sized PSU case, but uses a revised large 13.5cm fan, with a slower 1800RPM speed to keep it cool, yet still quiet. BeQuiet told bit-tech that it rated the unit at 87% efficiency (which is optimistic of any PSU in our opinion) and are obtaining 80PLUS certification which tests for at least 80% efficiency from 20-100% load.

In addition, the modular PSU has coloured connectors to differentiate between PCI-Express, Molex and 8-pin power plugs. There are two 6+2-pin cables and two 6pin cables provided making it suitable for ATI Radeon HD 2900 XT CrossFire, and they are also ferrite shielded to provide additionally clean power lines.

Finally, there are some super long 105cm cables supplied with 90 degree connectors, which should be suitable for even the largest cases. While this may seem excessive, a 1000W supply should allow you to have a dozen hard drives and a handful of optical drives amongst plenty of other high power hardware, so it's expected a large case is necessary.

Is 1000W too much or is 2000W not enough? Let us know your super powers in the forums.



35 Comments

Discuss in the forums Reply
zoom314 7th June 2007, 02:12 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim S
http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2007/06/07/when_will_we_have_enough_wattage/1

COMPUTEX 2007: 1000W, 2000W? When will we have enough? We talked to Thermaltake, Silverstone and BeQuiet about their latest products for power hungry boxes.

:(
1500w or 2000w, Is Thermaltake Nuts? Most residential 115vac breakers in the USA are 15A or 20A max, Anything bigger is 220vac territory.
Zurechial 7th June 2007, 02:33 Quote
Absolutely ridiculous, it's spiralling out of control.

The saddest thing about it is the huge number of pathetic fools out there who'll buy these wasteful PSUs just because it's got a bigger number and an nVidia SLI sticker on it.

Who cares about electricity bills, safety, efficiency or the environment when our e-penises are in such dire need of extension, eh?
bubsterboo 7th June 2007, 02:42 Quote
WOW! P=IV, so 120V x 15A breaker current = 1800W. I'm not looking forward to the day i have to hook up my computer to my house's 240V line for ovens to power my graphics cards.
DLoney 7th June 2007, 02:47 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by bubsterboo
I'm not looking forward to the day i have to hook up my computer to my house's 240V line for ovens to power my graphics cards.
Thats what im saying as well. nvidia and AMD need to get their acts together. I shouldnt have to go out an buy a new powersupply every time I upgrade my graphics card.


What will come next? will it be standard for cases to have two powersupplys? One for the GPU's and the other for the rest of the system?
Zurechial 7th June 2007, 03:01 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by DLoney
Thats what im saying as well. nvidia and AMD need to get their acts together. I shouldnt have to go out an buy a new powersupply every time I upgrade my graphics card.


What will come next? will it be standard for cases to have two powersupplys? One for the GPU's and the other for the rest of the system?

I think the necessity for a huge powersupply is exaggerated, and AMD and nVidia aren't so much at fault as the PSU manufacturers and the fanboys who'll rush out and buy the PSU with the highest wattage as soon as it comes out, whether they need it or not.
The companies wouldn't produce such ridiculous PSUs if they didn't think the morons...I mean..market existed.
DarkLord7854 7th June 2007, 04:08 Quote
Power requirements sound very dangerous o.o
Firehed 7th June 2007, 04:46 Quote
120 amps? I think someone read the manual wrong... 12 amps maybe, which is still an insane power draw for a computer.

Unless the thing is pulling something like 10% efficiency
[cibyr] 7th June 2007, 05:09 Quote
That'd have to be 120A on the output side. 120x12 = 1440W, which is pretty close to 1500W (and we know how PSU manufacturers like to fudge the numbers a bit).

On the 240V side, all the GPO circuits in my house are rated for 16A and most sockets are rated to 10A, so forget about 120 or anything nearly that huge. 10A x 240V is 2400W, which is why you see that number on a lot of heaters, microwaves and such. It's the most you can pull through a standard wall socket. At 100% efficiency (not gonna happen) a 2000W PSU running at full load would draw 8.33A from the socket.
Omnituens 7th June 2007, 05:11 Quote
can it power my flux capacitor?
Bindibadgi 7th June 2007, 05:20 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omnituens
can it power my flux capacitor?

roffles :D

I'll suggest that TT should release a back-to-the-future edn to them and see what they say.

When the lass asked if I wanted to look at their cases, I was desperately trying not to be rude, but I had to tell her the general opinion was that no one liked them :o Tbh, the main reason I visit the TT booth is that the HAB density is so huge.



HAB = hot asian babe. ;)
Hugo.B 7th June 2007, 09:46 Quote
We all like increasing performance, but in an ideal world, we should be able to have double the processing power and half the power consumption next year.


H.B.
Glider 7th June 2007, 10:06 Quote
"Honey, I'm booting the PC, can you turn off the oven please?"
evan316 7th June 2007, 10:26 Quote
The power supplies rated at 1200 watts and 1600 watts would draw roughly 12 amps and 16 amps max. If the computer actually used this much current all of the time this could be a problem, but the power supply rating is all about the max you can draw not what will actually be used, 15 amps is the max that a typical wall plug is rated for. I will agree, this large a power supply is getting to be a bit much for a home computer and there is a chance that a circuit breaker could be tripped on the larger PSU. There would also be the need for the monitor and what ever else was needed, also keeping in mind that each wall plug does not have its own breaker, but will have most in that room on the same circuit breaker so this would limit other equipment in the room as to power consumption.

Evan
Jipa 7th June 2007, 12:17 Quote
The only thing that keeps me interested in new power supplies is that how much wattage can they pull off from such (relatively) small package. There's absolutely none computers out there that might require over 1 kW of power, let alone two.. Sigh. Hopefully no one will buy one.

Just for reference here's a 1,5 kW power from few years back and a normal-sized ATX-power. http://jipa.blondie89.org/misc/atx_p.jpg The watts are really becoming smaller :)
Glider 7th June 2007, 12:22 Quote
High powered servers often require 1kW or more... But they use different PSU's ;) (redundant, hot swappable)
perplekks45 7th June 2007, 12:44 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glider
High powered servers often require 1kW or more... But they use different PSU's ;) (redundant, hot swappable)
But we're talking about home PCs here. And 2kW is insane. As somebody said on another "do we need that much (horse) power in a PC?" thread:
I'll wait for the first generation of gfx cards sucking LESS power than the previous before I'll ever again upgrade.
flabber 7th June 2007, 13:44 Quote
The next thing you know there will be houses specifically made with a special powergrid for all the hardcore-gamers and modders out there... they call it Techville.

Seriously... 1000W or 2000W; most houses have ±3500W per group, and 3-6 groups in total. That would mean that if you want to play it safe, you should have one free group júst for your PC. That's ridiculous. The fact that the PC-world (with the exception of CPU's i think) still hasn't gotten it through their thick skulls to really think about the total use of their hardware proves that they don't care. They want more power and more speed, and being a bit energy-efficient can't stand between those 2.
./^\.Ace./^\. 7th June 2007, 14:32 Quote
Lets just build houses with a second conection to the power grid so that we can have the house line and the PC line coming in fron the street
yakyb 7th June 2007, 14:47 Quote
to be honest im not all that bothered by this (hear me out)

no system requires more than 700W right now,if that. 2KW is only a maximum not what it actually draws

what is the efficiency of this PSU when it is only running at Max 35% load

oh in regards to connecting it up at home

http://www.amazon.com/Revlon-RV484-1875-Watt-Hair-Dryer/dp/B000065DJY
look at kettles, straighteners etc

things like this have existed for ages
DXR_13KE 7th June 2007, 14:57 Quote
i have a total embargo on all computer things that consume to much power. make them efficient and i will buy them.
i am voting with my wallet.
tacticus 7th June 2007, 15:30 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by yakyb
to be honest im not all that bothered by this (hear me out)

no system requires more than 700W right now,if that. 2KW is only a maximum not what it actually draws

what is the efficiency of this PSU when it is only running at Max 35% load

generally less than if it was running at 80% load
Hells_Bliss 7th June 2007, 15:41 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by yakyb
to be honest im not all that bothered by this (hear me out)

no system requires more than 700W right now,if that. 2KW is only a maximum not what it actually draws

what is the efficiency of this PSU when it is only running at Max 35% load

oh in regards to connecting it up at home

http://www.amazon.com/Revlon-RV484-1875-Watt-Hair-Dryer/dp/B000065DJY
look at kettles, straighteners etc

things like this have existed for ages

and how many house fires have there been due to these products?

Just a curious question, but how much power does two 8800GTX's draw? I have an 850W PSU at home, and if i have to upgrade my PSU again just to SLi my machine, i'll be pissed. (i'll have to mod the case first just to fit the buggers in, but that another story :P)
Jipa 7th June 2007, 16:09 Quote
The entire system (with two 8800GTXs) will draw around 500 W is my wild guess.

And indeed things with larger fuses are always more likely to cause fire than the ones with small fuses... That thing can cause so much heat without popping the fuse it doesn't make sense.
TomD22 7th June 2007, 17:15 Quote
160 Amps? What? Am I missing something obvious here?

Power (Watts) = Potential Difference (Volts) x Current (Amps)
P = V x A
A = P / V
A = 2000 watts / 230 volts (standard for UK sockets)
A = 8.7amps.

Where the hell does the 160 come from?? My electric kettle puts out 2000W of power and I can assure you that it draws no more than 13 amps (the standard fuse in a plug) at the max from a 230 volt socket. If that power supply really did draw 160 amps it would not only blow the fuse in the plug on it's power lead, it'd probably also trip the breaker for the whole house.

So, what? I guess I'm just missing something here?



(and on another note - anyone who uses a tumble drier, electric kettle, electic water boiler (worst of all), etc etc really really doesn't need to worry about how much power their PC draws in comparison)
Flibblebot 7th June 2007, 17:29 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomD22
160 Amps? What? Am I missing something obvious here?
As explained previously, it's 160A on the 12V line. 160*12 = 1920W, which is (as near as dammit) 2kW.
zoom314 7th June 2007, 18:06 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomD22
160 Amps? What? Am I missing something obvious here?

Power (Watts) = Potential Difference (Volts) x Current (Amps)
P = V x A
A = P / V
A = 2000 watts / 230 volts (standard for UK sockets)
A = 8.7amps.

Where the hell does the 160 come from?? My electric kettle puts out 2000W of power and I can assure you that it draws no more than 13 amps (the standard fuse in a plug) at the max from a 230 volt socket. If that power supply really did draw 160 amps it would not only blow the fuse in the plug on it's power lead, it'd probably also trip the breaker for the whole house.

So, what? I guess I'm just missing something here?



(and on another note - anyone who uses a tumble drier, electric kettle, electric water boiler (worst of all), etc etc really really doesn't need to worry about how much power their PC draws in comparison)
Here We use 115vac and the standard is a 15A breaker for wall sockets(3 prong, power, neutral and ground), My Main breaker is 100A, Other houses have 200A main breakers, The 15A breaker can be replaced with a 20A breaker, But the wiring has to be the bigger 12/2 or 12/3 instead of the 14/3, As to outlets I've never seen one rated for 20A though, But then I don't think 20A much less 15A would ever be pulled through one outlet. Heck the aluminum no. 1 cable I use between the parks pedestal and My manufactured house is rated only for 100A as The largest breaker on the parks panel is also 100A. I will be looking at adding a couple of 115v circuits soon, But It's not cause of a psu, It's cause I have 5 PCs and My front room circuit is maxed out power wise with 3 PCs and 6 other electric devices and My Kitchen is not far behind with 2 PCs and the Kitchens 16 other devices. I'm lucky I just reduced My electric usage recently as I exchanged a malfunctioning 220v clothes dryer for a used gas clothes dryer which uses 115v for the controls and the electronic ignition of the natural gas, I'd have a few clothes lines outside, But since I live where sand/dust blows a lot(60mph+ gusts anybody?) and the lot is really tiny 28'x70' or so in size, So a clothes line can't be done as My house takes up 14'x60' and the Car port/driveway is 11'x60' in size, Besides Its not like I could fence off an area to keep theft down, I don't have the cash to do that even If I wanted to. The old dryer is going to be scrapped as the gas dryer was a free gift to Me from a relative that was just sitting around that My relatives didn't need. Oh and the park will take care of the old dryer, As they'll just take It to the dump I'd expect.
TomD22 7th June 2007, 19:49 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flibblebot
As explained previously, it's 160A on the 12V line. 160*12 = 1920W, which is (as near as dammit) 2kW.

Aha. That makes a lot more sense :)

I knew I had to be missing something simple....
zoom314 7th June 2007, 20:21 Quote
It turns out that Europe is getting the 2000w psu and the US gets only the 1500w psu due to residential breaker sizes.

http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=418&type=expert&pid=5
yakyb 8th June 2007, 00:07 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hells_Bliss
and how many house fires have there been due to these products?

Just a curious question, but how much power does two 8800GTX's draw? I have an 850W PSU at home, and if i have to upgrade my PSU again just to SLi my machine, i'll be pissed. (i'll have to mod the case first just to fit the buggers in, but that another story :P)

pulled from extreme.outervision

System Type: Single Processor
Motherboard: High End - Desktop
CPU: Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 2400 MHz Kentsfield
CPU Utilization (TDP): 85% TDP

RAM: 2 Sticks DDR2 SDRAM
Video Card: NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GTX
Video Type: SLI

SATA HDD: 2 HDDs

DVD-RW/DVD+RW Drive: 2 Drives

PCI IDE Card: Yes

Fans
Regular: 2 Fans 120mm;

Keyboard and mouse: Yes

System Load: 100 %



Recommended Wattage: 534 Watts


you do raise a fair point with the fire issue tho butthat is mostly caused by faulty wiring besides those product are designed to create heat where as the psu it is only a by product so cannot really be compared
leexgx 8th June 2007, 01:55 Quote
intresting PSU you only be 2000W in the 220-240V
even if the US or any other place that uses 100-120v power grid you find it darn hard to use that much power in an PSU any way As the load is only there when its been used not just been pluged in will not use 2KW
that link is so cool its powering an AMP and an speakers useing 1.2KW of power an Very high end gameing PC probly push at most 600w in use
Spaceraver 9th June 2007, 11:46 Quote
Well, using the 380V ac lines is just a question of time i think. But the power drawn from them could be massive. Here it's 16A on the 380v line. But the power meter would run amok. And imagine if you had more than 1 PC turned on at the same time.. That poor power meter would get dizzy and start to glow at night.. Why not just piggyback the airlines now where at it. 10kV is the standard here from station to station. Then we have 100kV and 60kV..
Glider 9th June 2007, 11:51 Quote
Well, guys, nice you are all doing maths, but you are forgetting the power factor and such on the AC side. That being said, stop the calculations, because they make no sense. The PSU will only draw as much current as needed... That's 750W max... So don't worry about that. Nice media stunt, but hardly usefull, and probably utterly expensive...
Bindibadgi 9th June 2007, 13:41 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tile
This is absolute insanity. The first thing that needs to de done is to force graphics processors manufacturers to make more efficient products. In this way one can upgrade his videocard wihout having to change hisor hers powersupply.

I wonder how long the psu designers at Thermaltake will discover that in my native country alongside the 220V ac lines we have the 380V ac lines that are used for high power electric motors and design a psu that uses these lines.

Word on the show floor was that the graphics guys with their ultra complicated gpus top out at just 40% efficiency, the rest is pissed away as heat. So if you up that to 70% with a LOT of R&D (yet no return) then you'll only have a fraction of the heat output.

The PSUs may only draw the current needed, but they also don't work effectively until at least about 50% load. It's important to match a PSU to the system.
DougEdey 9th June 2007, 13:43 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bindibadgi
Word on the show floor was that the graphics guys with their ultra complicated gpus top out at just 40% efficiency, the rest is pissed away as heat. So if you up that to 70% with a LOT of R&D (yet no return) then you'll only have a fraction of the heat output.

That's what I've been crying about since day 1 and no-one listens to me!
loratio 10th June 2007, 19:22 Quote
Buy this PSU and a quad core cpu + quad gpu and a mobo that pulls 100+ watts. Install it in your Hummer H2, drive around town with open windows and your aircon on at full blast and give everybody the finger...

This is absolutely idiotic.

Who needs ice caps anyways. Let's do what we can to rid all that terrible cold!

...sigh
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