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Mark Rein: Consoles killing the PC market
Author: Joe MartinPublished: 1st February 2008
Mark Rein thinks that consoles are definitely stealing a part of the PC gamers market.
In an interview with The Guardian, Mark discussed the future of Unreal Tournament 3 and how he feels the series will progress on consoles and, in particular, what the future is for the PlayStation 3 version.
Asked whether he thought the PC market was able to keep up with the rapidly growing console market, Mark was a little dubious of the PC's future - which is a different tune to be singing than when we last spoke to him!
"I'm a real fan of the PC, but yes, consoles are definitely stealing a lot of hardcore gamers from the PC," said Mark, going on to outline an especially eye-watering story.
"When Call of Duty 4 came out, I heard some of our guys sitting around talking about the great game they'd had last night and I'm like, 'Hey guys, what server are you playing on? I'd love to come and join you,' and they said, 'Just send us a friends request,' It was at that point I realized they were all playing it on console."
"Plus, the sales of the console versions are something like ten times the sales of the PC versions."
It's pretty fashionable to talk about the death of the PC gaming industry at the moment, but what do you think about the future of the PC medium? Is the personal computer about to go belly up in terms of games, or is this all melodramaic lies? Let us know what you think in the forums.
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and i have to agree with steveo mcg, ut3 lacks innovation. 2k4 ftw
We'll take his example. Call of Duty 4, it sold 383k last year for the PC, and 1.47m for the 360. Far and away from the 10x he speaks of.
http://www.gamedaily.com/articles/news/wow-sims-dominate-top-10-pc-games-of-07/19191/?biz=1
http://www.gamedaily.com/articles/news/npd-us-video-game-industry-totals-1794-billion-halo-3-tops-all/19119/
BUT this does not include digital distribution.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=231907
Crysis has reached 1 million sold as of the latest numbers.
http://www.incrysis.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=612
Clearly there is plenty of mileage in PC gaming, and there is no sudden shift to consoles.
"This [console vs. PC sales gap] isn't really a new phenomenon. Video games software sales, and even just the console portion of that figure (at retail) have been greater than PC retail sales every year that we've tracked (1995)."
It has always been this way.
I was also one of the most 'hardcore' gamers until this year, playing at the forefront of 'WoW Raiding', I guess I finally burned out and just wanted something I could switch on and play then stop when it was convenient..
Also lets see in the end how UT3 sells on the PS3 vs PC
reliable=including digital distribution
Until then, this discussion is pointless.
Console games look great and play great and the one off payment of £300 every 5 years or more is much better than £500 every year for new PC parts. Ive been able buy so many more games since scrapping the yearly upgrade and I cant say I missed the Pc games.
yep
Not just Console but on 360 - Unified friends list FTW!
1 PC game = 30 pounds
1 "next-gen" console game = 40 pounds (even though their graphics are shite compared to Crysis)
what is killing PC gaming is all those n0obs trying to play PC game on a 1 year old laptop! when they discover that they can't play it, they will go to consoles.
bad console ports (eg, UT3, Halo 2) is also killing PC very badly, yet the person who spoke about this is a UT2 developer?
when you do a real comparison, PC games is a LOT better than consoles, just look at all those Valve's release, and look at Crysis' graphics, look at those amazing mods.
I mean that as consoles are proving to be all the more powerful and appealing, with more games shared across all platforms, it's forcing PC gaming and hardware firms to work harder at polishing the whole package to stop people shifting across.
Console gaming has its place for sure, to serve a huge chunk of the market who are fundamentally different from the "hardcore" gamers that generally use PC's.
I always laugh when I hear a console gamer claiming to be "hardcore" as if that's something to be proud of anyway, and find it even more laughable when they say so in the context of an FPS!
All platforms serve their purposes and there's room in every household for each, depending on the people in it of course.
By this I mean that I have a quad-core rig with an 8800GT overclocked to the rafters, a Wii and a PS2.
The PC is for strategy and FPS gaming, the Wii mainly for party gaming and random wackyness, and the PS3 for driving and sports games (mainly footy).
I didn't engineer this state of affairs in my house, it just developed as I wanted to play particular games and decided not to comprimise by using the same platform for each. I mean, playing an FPS like Halo on a console is a bit like trying to swim through mud. Every moment seems muted and restricted compared to my PC/key+mouse setup.
Then there was playing footy with the lads, impossible to get anywhere near the fun of gathered around a console when playing FIFA on the PC.
Make PC gaming more accessible with more attractive hardware that looks just as good as any other consumer electronics sharing space in our living rooms, put a stop to PIRACY for good (STEAM anyone?), and bring PC gaming crashing into the mainstream with official tournaments and proper recognition and the its role will be differentiated and cemented in its rightful place.
And those who truly take the reigns and pioneer this growth will be in the best possible positions to reap the rewards from the potentially HUGE market growth.
The Shooter/Platformer/Racer games will always attract the consoles, even with their diabolical control mechanism for FPS games.
I tried to 'go console' in Nov 06 on a 360. Was a disaster, and have since built an Uber PC rig and am enjoying Pirates/Supreme Commander Forged Alliance and Crysis- gaming bliss that you just cant get on a console. [yes Im aware SupCom is coming to 360 but thats still not Forged Alliance]
My gaming bliss on a PC was a costly venture - but worth every penny. My 360 gathers dust, as does the wii.
As for Mark Rein's comments. Blizzard may disagree with him. WOW - Litch King, StarCraft 2 and their next MMO will dwarf all of EPIC's sales combined. Maybe EPIC needs to refocus...
Sure the consoles are cheap, but the gaming experience is nothing compared to the experience on pc. And i prefer spend 350£ on a HD3870 or 8800GT and 2 Gb of ram than waste it on a console. Plus even cheap pc can surf the web, write documentes, retouch images, ... add 300£ of investiment and you get all that functionality and a Next NEXT generation gaming system.
As for COD4, although it looks nice, is old technology taken to the limit. Its beautiful but is old. You dont get paralax mapping, the lighting system looks rudimentary compared to crysis (which simulates the real physics of light (light bounces and indirect illuminates surfaces) and interactivity don't exist in COD4, the world is static. And remember COD4 is the "best" that consoles offer yet it pales compared to crysis.
And Team Fortress 2 is way more fun than UT3.
As long as there will be cutting edge technology, there will be PC gaming.
And i almost forget to say: don't support piracy. Game developers will continue to bring games to pc as long as we, pc gamers, continue to buy them.
You missed a lot, you just don't miss what you don't know, Consoles pale in comparison, i had a 360, all of its games came on PC, and looked and played better on it, I sold my 360 on e-bay. Other then mass Effect, what the hell am i missing? Nothing. The Witcher is a better RPG as it is, and that is PC only.
console games are just as easy to copy though....
there are tons of online shops that sell consoles with mod chips in them or the bare chips for those with diy skills. your right about the blue ray burners, but thats limited to the ps3. but with the right mod chips its possible to have the game on the hdd.
There are other factors that are affecting the industry as well, piracy is simply easier to blame.
IIRC there was a study that stated that piracy helps sales..... but lets not go there.
Are you even serious? Just as easy? lol. On what planet? Most console gamers do not know you can mod or even know how to mod a console to begin with. Saying Consoles are as easy to pirte as PC is assinine. It is much easier on Pc, that is obvious.
Helps sales? BWHAHAHAHAh
BWHAHAHA
Yeah, lets not go there, because there is no need to, that is a load of crap.
It's just a lot of hot air IMO, developers are shooting themselves in the foot, by constantly pushing graphics they're also reducing the audience that can play the game and they're having a tantrum about it.
Hang on, it seems that FPS developers are doing the most complaining, well I guess they're the same as the majority of their audience.
The pirates are using hax and the console companies are n00bs who use cheap tactics to steal their kills. It's not their fault at all they lose sales, it's the cheap n00bs and hax.
If not enough people are buying your game, you are doing something wrong, yes there may be problems like piracy and console n00bs, but they're a symptom, not the cause.
People like Introversion and Stardock create games that almost every PC can play, they do it very well and cheaper than an AAA title. Yeah it might not sell as well, but it does turn a profit.
For example, I completely ignored UT3 as it came out, and I only bothered to play it when a friend shared the iso on the home network. Less than a week later with us all playing the pirate version on lan, we've all gone and ordered copies.
I know I'm the exception to the norm, but not everyone who pirates games puts nothing into the industry - I buy a tonne of games, this is just an aid to the selection process :)
Most people who pirate DON'T buy the games, people who have a free copy aren't going to go and spend 50 out of the good of their hearts. Of Course ending piracy will help sales, the only people saying otherwise are pirates themselves. Not EVERYONE would buy it if piracy stops, but many would, increasing sales, and helping Pc gaming in general, this is common sense, unless you're a pirate, no more excuses pirates, lol.
your numbers are wrong COD4 sold 1.47m on the 360 in December alone if you read farther down it says its total is 3.04m total and you were comparing that number it to the total 2007 COD4 PC game sales figure 383k a little closer to "something like ten times" but these numbers don't include digital downloads as everyone has pointed out, or PS3 versions because he's comparing PC sales to console sales. Still alot of research to do.
Those two items seem a little contradictory.
read:
http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2007/02/12/study_finds_p2p_sales_effect_virtually_zero/1
http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2007/11/06/p2p_music_increases_cd_sales_study/1
as i said: there are bigger things affecting the market than piracy, and as a friend of mine would say: "an accident is never caused by one thing, it is caused by the sum of all problems" ;)
edit:
Music has what to do with Pc games? Nothing, and that is just one study, many others show the opposite, saying thousands of songs being downloaded daily do not effect c sales is also retarded. Who paid for that study, Kazaa?
... If I was a gamer :)
when you say: "piracy is hurting sales, i hope piracy stops" i read it as "if piracy stops, everyone that pirates will buy the media and boost sales by X (X being a number that symbolizes the amount of game downloads going on) were X is bloody huge", this is RIAA philosophy, were one download = lost sale.
now, if we think about it and see that the studies were made in the Journal of Political Economy by Felix Oberholzer-Gee and Koleman Strumpf and the second by Industry Canada and the University College London.... [sarcasm]that are all fronts for Kazaa[/sarcasm]
normally studies that say that piracy is sucking the blood of the new born is generally paid and made by the ifpi or their underlings.....
"Music has what to do with Pc games? Nothing", everyone knows that people that pirate games don't pirate music they are all criminals, worse than bank robbers and they don't steal music nor buy music.[/sarcasm]
even if piracy was (an exaggerated) 40% culpable for lowering profits for media creators you would still have that 60% of all the other things that can be easily solved on their end of the stick.... with this they would also lower the percentage of piracy.
i will end with one question: "if piracy ended tomorrow what would be the increase in sales (in percentage) for the next 2 years for each media type (music, movies, software and games)? please consider the human element, the current geo-political-economical scenario and the "i will wait for when it is at a lower price" effect into the equation"
and please don't say that something plausible is retarded, they said the same when people wanted to fly..... also, don't double and triple post.....
Sorry, that is total bs, everytime a new console comes out, there is a time they are close graphics wise, thats it, then theya re surpassed what other areas are they better now? Nothing has changed, if you weant to be on the cutting edge, and have the best PC will always be the way to go, unless consoles become upgradeable, but if that happens they are PC's then.
Notice all Console shooters have small environments and no destructable environments?
1. I can say what I want, don't try and tell me what I can and cannot do here.
2. The fact is sales would inherently increase, my wife bought cd's all the time, until we got a PC. If there was no downloading on the PC, she would still be buying CD's, many are the same, unless you think she is the only person in the world like this. How much? No one knows how much, but more people would buy cd's and games if they had no other alternative. That is common sense. Anyone who thinks if all piracy ceased today, all those people playing pirated software would give up gaming and listening to music are on crack.
Here are a few things why I think pc gaming is on the decline.
The cost to keep up with the latest and greatest is just to much.
Now with HDTV becoming very common among home users, people can now game in Hi-def from the comforts of their couches. No need to be in front of a small 17-22in monitor.
Ease of use. Insert a game disc and press play. No need to type in serial keys, no need to download and install patches (manually).
Piracy - Bit torrent is killing pc sales. Just go download an ISO, install a crack and you are playing COD 4 for free.
There is hope for pc gaming..
EA is talking about a unified gaming system; the PC is almost there.
Simplify the OS; keep the hardware the same of about 4-5 years. Have multiple manufactures (like the current PC industry) and keep the prices low.
Add free extra stuff, like HTPC capabilities, cable-directv tuner card capability plus end the format war with a hd-dvd/bluray player.
Then life will be good.
Did you even read the thread? Sales are good, PC is not on the decline at all. Your loss, you are missing out on the best RPG in years, and a better experience then what you are getting on consoles.
Did you even read the thread? Sales are good, PC is not on the decline at all. Your loss, you are missing out on the best RPG in years, and a better experience then what you are getting on consoles.
Unified gaming system? Those are called consoles. You are on crack, that means ATI, Nvidia and a load of companies would go bankrupt, that will never happen, the inherritent thing that drives people to game on PC is that they are upgradeable and customizeable. What a load of crock.
The alwasy was hope for PC gaming, it isn't in any danger.
I play that game on my 360 all the time and every match is full and if not when i get in it takes less that a minute to get full.
it is good forum etiquette for people to not double post and i think it used to be in the rules when i got in......
and the money that used to go to cds..... were is it being used on? stop doing it then and start buying cds again, she is hurting the industry.... [/sarcasm]
if piracy ended today i would listen to a lot less music and play a lot less...... and i usually buy originals.... so less gain for the media creators i think, and i think i am not alone here.....
lastly there is a button on your posts that says "edit", please use it instead of double posting, it is against general thread etiquette....
i forgot the sarcasm tags in front of "she is hurting the industry....". i will add them now.
don't underestimate the power of fans, i bet with you that about all the people that download from TPB and other popular sites and are active users of these sites would do an embargo against buying media if p2p disappeared tomorrow.
so lets see if i get this straight: you are saying that person X (the normal kind of pirate, <24, low money at the end of the month.... etc, the normal kind of pirate around here), a person that downloads 3 albums per week and 1 game per week, buys 1 album per month and 1 game each 6 months and ends each month with about y in money that he saves to buy stuff that is necessary for him (food, school supplies, university payment.... etc...) leaving him with effective 0 money or less each month. (this is not me, i buy more media, this is the standard pirate i know from here)
he suddenly stops pirating because his favourite torrent sites are down because the creators of the media closed them all down, what would happen?
A) he would continue buying the same amount of media he used to buy.
B) he will buy more media, if so with what money?
C) he would buy less media because he would be mad/sad, or for some other reason......
i bet you wont even try to respond to this question, like you did with the other ones...
edit:
Still this makes me mad, especially that the ps3 version can play mods made on a PC. Someone hurry up and make a mod that gives the ps3 version a virus.
You are saying crime will shoot up and people will start stealing cd's and games if piracy ceases, yet they have enough money for internet and PC's to play crysis and COD4? I give up, obviously you are dumb. Sales will go up, case closed. Piracy is bad, Fact, not hard to understand, unless you're an idiot like yourself. Not everyone will, but some will buy games if they had no choice, to suggest these people will all of a sudden resort to shoop lifting when they have PC's in their homes and internet is assinine. Before piracy there was no such problem.
As to the death of PC gaming nah I don't buy it people will always game on a PC.. it's just more people have consoles now so every one looks at the market shares, picks some figures that support their arguement and rants on about the death of this or that
If he'd just chatted to the interviewer for five minutes about how he overslept this morning, no quote, no story...
But "OMG PC GAMING IS DEAD!" and suddenly everyones chatting about you...
some peoples egos need a big old slap
Easy now Lepermessiah... you think berating people will make them change their opinions? Or just dismiss your own?
om"effer"g Before piracy there was no such problem? erm... are you from this planet or something? the phenom we call piracy nowadays is something that always happened and existed in human society, we only see it as being bad so openly nowadays because some people (corporations/etc) feel itchy and just need a new yacht at the end of the month :(:(:(:(
The other problem im seeing is the gift/present area whereby games are bought as gifts. I mean say little timmy has an xbox and a pc, and on his wishlist for his b'day is COD4, now granny nips into GAME while shes out and looks for said title, im guessing here but even if she asked the assisstant for advice they would point here in the xbox direction? and even if they did say "you can get it on the pc and xbox" if granny chooses the pc version she'll get the "does the computer meet the required spec?" grannies gunna be stumped and go for the xbox version anyways.
Im ranting i know, ive been awake too long so ill leave it at that
nite
lets see here... i should not pay for internet and buy new hardware and with that money buy games.... that makes perfect sense, i realy have to cancel my internet connection and sell my computer and run and buy 75$ games to play on my computer that i sold...... and you coming here and calling me dumb and idiot is like a person entering a bar and calling a regular customer names.....
as for people resorting to shoplifting because of games.... it is happening here in a place called "Camera de Lobos", kids don't have internet, they go to a place and rob it, get money and pay games, or simply steal the games.... SaNdCrAwLeR knows what i am talking about.....
edit: btw, welcome to the forum SaNdCrAwLeR.
oh yes... its a peaceful island we live in... just dont go to that place and u'll be fine =X *gulps cuz he has to go there next week*
don't exaggerate.... it is not that bad a worse spot is "bairro da Nogueira" but lets not talk about that......
Remember the arcades? They use to be big but as people turned to gaming at home, companies spent less time and money on doing games for the arcade and just went straight to consoles.
Also, certain games which the PC was king (massive multi player games, RTS, and FPS), the consoles are getting these types of games too. The console versions my not be on par with the pc but they are getting there.
The PC will be a gaming machine for a long time to come. Mostly I believe it will be used to emulate older game systems for free.
For the last few days ive been playing goldeneye on my laptop using an xbox360 pad and i must say its a surreal experience but i loved goldeneye back in the day and it brings back memories,
;) same thing here but round a friends chez....
But with the consoles bringing out oldschool games on XBox Live and Sony jumping onboard I reckon it's another case of different retro games will suit different systems
that has got to be the best statement of 2008 ..... my clan just died because of epics attempt to kill a good game ....
Im having a real problem with pc gaming at he minute, ive been playing pc games for about 10 years, mainly fps. The only reason i have owned consoles is for the games that they are great for, the gran turismo series on playstations, the resident evil games on the gamecube. These were the reasons that i bought these consoles. All fps gaming was done on the pc, as far as i was concerned the pc was the only machine that gave me the best experience. Ive always prefered pc gaming to console gaming, if i needed a gt or resident evil fix i had my consoles but most of the time was spent on the pc. Im not going to go into how many clans ive led or been in as this is not what im trying to say here. As far as fps games go on the pc ive played all the ones are that worth playing (you know which ones im talking about). Online or offline fps gaming was all i used to know, played halo on the xbox and hated how restricted it felt. I always loved the freedom of movement that i got from a mouse and keyboard.
I bought an xbox 360 about 8 months ago as i had just bought a new hdtv and wondered what all this "high definiton" gaming was all about, the games i got with it were need for speed carbon and gears of war. Need for speed i had already completed on the pc so i sold it straight away. Gears of war at first was a strange experience it was difficult aiming with 2 analogue sticks, then i got used to it, even though in the back of my head i knew if this came out on the pc i would be faster and more accurate. The funny thing was that i didnt care that i didnt have a mouse and keyboard and was having more fun as i was sitting in front of a hugh tv with a wireless controller. I was also easily able to have a co-op game over an online system that seems flawless and simple to use. Now i wont go on too much about gears of war as this is not what im writing about but i will say one thing; i bought it for the pc and yes im faster and more accurate with a keyboard and mouse, but i have found myself buying a cable to connect my pc to my hdtv and a wireless adapter so that i can use a 360 controller to play gears like i do on the 360. Why is this? I think its because the game came out on the 360 first and had the best experience of playing it on a big tv.
Ok guys nearly finished, onto my problem. I had a tough decision about 2 months ago wether or not to buy call of duty 4 for the pc or the 360.
In the end i went for the 360 version, after much thinking (i have the first 2 games for the pc and love them) about my loyalty to fps pc gaming. I love pc games, i have bought hundreds over the years. I have spent 10's of thousands upgrading several computers so why did i buy one of the biggest fps releases for a console? In all honesty i think i bought it because a couple of my old clanmates had it for the 360. I dont regret abandoning my pc as i bought it for the pc too, though i have only played it twice on it. My 360 is never off from playing cod4. So what is wrong with me? I think its that i am my own problem, many years ago i played unreal on a top spec pc. I had to have a computer capable of playing like i did, so started the upgrade frenzy. Repeatedly upgrading every year, spending thousands to play the latest game on full detail. I think im tired of spending money on pcs as it seems like its a vicous circle.
So what should i do?
Thanks guys for reading this very long-winded, overly waffling stupid post, but i needed to say something to someone lol.
Mark Rein as an idiot, plain and simple.
And to all you console fan boys, go check out sonys desired life cycle of the PS3... did someone say 10 years? 10 years! thats just to properly recoup the insane development expenditure. In 7 years PC gaming will look so much better than PS3/xbox u might as well get your PS2 out.