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European PS3 has less functionality than US, Japan
Author: Wil HarrisPublished: 23rd February 2007
Sony's European PS3 won't have backwards compatibility with PS2 games. This is lame.
Not only are European PS3 buyers getting gouged in pricing terms - paying as much as 40% more for the console than our brethren overseas - but it turns out that European consoles are actually going to have less functionality, too.
How can this be? Well, in a bid to cut the cost of making the PS3, the hardware chips that enable PS2 backwards compatibility are being stripped out.
Stripped out.
The chips will be replaced with software emulation, with the result that backwards compatibility for European consoles will be, according to Sony, significantly less.
According to Reuters, "The backwards compatibility is not going to be as good as the U.S. and Japan models," a Sony spokesman said. "Rather than concentrate on PS2 backwards compatibility, in the future, company resources will be increasingly focused on developing new games and entertainment features exclusively for PS3."
Great. Most people probably wouldn't mind about not having backwards compatibility, but the fact that US and Japan get it and we don't is, frankly, galling. Let's face it - Sony's deal is getting worse by the day.
Let us know your thoughts over in the forums. Try to keep it clean.
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BTW: We're not paying 40% more, they are paying 40% less then us. We are paying upto 88% more.
The europian PS3 launch is going to be the biggest flop in Console history
in all fairness, i'd love to see it flop because sony are playing a very nasty, prejudiced game.
Perhaps I should take out shares in travel companies offering hols to Japan
In practice, I guess it makes sense - most PS3 buyers who care about backwards compatibility will have a PS2 anyway (otherwise they're unlikely to have a big catalogue of games), and PS2 resale values aren't going to be such that you'll be losing out massively by not being able to sell it on, so I guess you'll still be able to play the incompatible games on your PS2.
That said, for people who have no PS2 but want a PS3, it would be nice to be able to get in on the action in terms of some old school PS2 games, with guaranteed 100% compatibility. And to reduce the clutter under your TV with one unit capable of playing old and new games alike.
Ah well, Sony, this really is a huge mistake. As M3G4 says, this is a nasty game you're playing, and it will seriously affect UK sales. I really hope the PS3 EU launch flops, to send a warning to manufacturers that they can't continue to exploit the EU as some kind of cash cow.
*yeah sony, heres your thousand bucks, go ahead and give me that low-end bluray player real deep.thanks*
And here I thought that Sony wouldn't release anymore "look we are screwing everyone out of their money" press releases or anything.
I think Sony needs new people in the high places, obviously all the money they have been investing in thew PS3 hasn't all gone on the PS3, but into another market, one of a unscrupulous nature. What else could have made them make this many mistakes?
Having seen the consoles side by side at Game On I thought there was very little difference anyway, backward compatibility would have been the key reason for purchase, now that has been taken away for us lowly europeans (or reduced somehow) then it looks like uncle Bill will be getting my cash.
From Lik-Sang's closure notice:
So Sony killed Lik-Sang to prevent us poor EU customers buying a (much cheaper) Japanese PS3 because it might not be backwards compatible with PS2 games, then releases a vastly overpriced unit in the EU which is far less likely to be backwards compatible because (and I'm sure we can all sympathise with Sony here - after all, our consoles only cost like 88% more than the Japanese ones) they CUT OUT THE HARDWARE REQUIRED FOR BACKWARDS COMPATIBILITY TO SAVE MONEY.
Nice one, dumbasses.
EDIT: Wow, I'm feeling vitriolic today.
Then they charge up twice the japanese price.
Then... they take away backwards compatibility.
Why have they left it so late to announce also? Is it that preorders are already done and that people will get their PS3s no matter what now, or is it that news is that close to release they hope people wont hear about it and buy one then its too late?
Sure software support will work, but I imagine itll be ala 360, where only some who they can be bothered to code up for compatibility on the cell will work, oh how the sony fanboys moaned that the 360 wasnt fully BC!
Ian
Not that I was gonna get one at launch anyways. I hope they'll release a gamelist for the European PS3s in the future to see just how they mean by significantly.
Id prefer them to scrap it all together and drop the price abit. Considering the original uk price was going to be £500 and now its around £425. I think its a good saving.
Not that I'm buying one anyhow, this just makes me laugh all the more.
Ok, so I wasn't planning on buying a PS3 anyway, but still, this is a total screw-over for us Europeans.
I sure hope Sony are prepared for abysmal European sales figures.
I see what you're saying. But I think it's the *principle* that we find most outrageous.
true, I myself will not be playing any of my old ps2 games on it. But it's the fact that a) the machine is horrendously overpriced *when compared* to what the US and Japan markets pay and b) they have only now told us they are removing functionality, thereby meaning we're paying even more for even less.
I think that's what's p1ssing us all off -- the fact that Sony can just *do* what they're doing and there's no one to stop them. Besides us not buying their product(s). But then, as said earlier, it's only the die hards or "in the know" who realise what they are doing. >:(
ill have a 360 and about 3/4 AAAstar games please!
I urge everyone to do this.
Sadly the point of this is lost on me... but if you do want to waste £430 then go ahead... but wouldn't it be much more intelligent and productive, to buy a wii AND an 360 and show your disdain for Sony that way? At least then you're saving you're money and effecting the sales of the PS3 even more... because you're still buying a PS3...
Anyway I feel sorry for all of those that have pre-ordered the PS3, cause I have a feeling that once we get to launch day all you will be getting is an empty box....
Companies giving us less and charging us more and getting away with it makes my blood boil.
Surely there's something we can do to inform the average joe before they go buying these things and letting Sony off with such appalling behaviour???
Software emulation of the PS2 was always sony's plan, however emulating the PS2 is difficult, and Sony hadn't managed to get it ready in time for the US/Jap release - so they had to put the chips on (increasing costs a lot) to allow backwards compatibility
US/Jap consoles should get software emulation at some point, when a firmware update is released that included the emulation code
And then new consoles would also lose all the PS1/PS2 chips to allow software emulation
So all i can assume is Sony now have software emulation working, maybe not perfectly, but enough to drop the old chips
However the article seems to be saying that Sony aren't even going to get their software emulation where it really needs to be, and this is just stupid
Sadly, until all the PS1/PS2 chips are stripped out, the PS3 is going to be quite expensive, and they aren't going to be able to shrink the console either with that stuff in there, so it does need to be got rid of, however Sony's software emulation needs to be up to scratch before they can do this
Software emulation will get sorted out eventually, but its going to be a long process and I wouldn't be suprised if it had to be modified game by game.
The worrying thing is that people are still going to buy the thing in droves, based on brand power alone. :(
But anyway, PS2 games look like absolute **** on the PS3, so it makes no difference at all.
You must also remember that the 360 uses emulation, not hardware, for it's backwards compatibility, and it's also absolute wank.
Why do they not reduce the cost to the consumer for the EU launch then?
Fair do's you can argue that its already cheap but it really isnt, apart from nintendo all console manufacturers make a loss on hardware and get it back and more on games, if there saving 25 quid by not having a PS2 and PS1 in there, why dont they sell it for a nice round 399.99, it would attract a lot more buyers.
I really cant see Sony doing this, I could understand paying more, as we do anyway, but the consoles twice the price of the japanese one AND we dont get a Ps2 in there, so most likely we will get crap software support, like the 360 has got.
Charging us twice as much AND removing parts i feel is just cheeky, even tho it was their long term plans, they shouldnt remove the PS2 inside UNTIL, the software perfect and will run all the games the hardware will, this will just lead to more people importing, importing is already cheaper and will have better compatibility, they just screw us EU over by not realeasing any PAL consoles with a PS2 in, so we cant import them and play UK PS2 games blah blah, DIE!
Does this not mean the PS3s Ps2 emulation will now also be 'wank' ? Im afraid it does
And seing as all consoles in other regions have PS2s in, then if they cant be bothered, they could just leave the specs as they are now and screw us over again, as theres no way sony would develop code for every single PS2 game to run on the PS3 just for europe
Whats that I hear?
Its a super powerful nailgun to boot :D
It's just blatant profiteering and generally bending people over for no reason.
Nvidia, ATI, Sony, Microsoft - any early adopter will tell you its just hassle (nvidia & ati = drivers + price, MS = bugs + price, Sony = price)
From the latest generation consoles it's not hard to say which one has failed. Wii is selling phenomenally, Xbox is.. well... Xbox and then there's this one that costs too much, came too late and doesn't have anything new except price tag.
That was fixed with an update.
You argument would be 100% valid if it were not for the fact that Sony themselves have admitted the software compatibility will be extremely limited in comparison to the previous hardware-emulated units. If it "was their plan all along" then would ensure that in time for the European release, software compatibility should be as good (if not, even better) as the hardware emulated units.
The problem most people have with the PS3 is the very underhanded strategy Sony is employing with the European release. Everybody knows that no matter how much the PS3 costs in the US and Japan, Sony is losing a *lot* of money on each sale. Now some smart marketing exec had a brainwave that because everything costs more in Europe (due to taxes, import limitations, significant warranties etc), they can inflate the price even further to make up for the loses in other regions. Does that sound fair? Paying more so some American or Japanese gamers can have it for nearly half the price?
I would not be surprised if Sony break even with the UK (with a price tag of £450) as I highly doubt a PS3 costs more than $900 to manufacture and ship. Hell, I bet they even make a small profit.
That last statement alone should be enough to not buy a PS3, as there is a very good reason AAA console games cost this much and AAA PC games cost this much - a games console should *always* always be subsidised by the manufacturer who recoup huge amounts on software sales.
------
A little food for thought, it is also no secret that the industry is watching Sony's situation very carefully. If they do somehow manage to pull this off and come out relatively unscathed, this could mean a lot to the European games industry. What if on the next round of consoles, Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo all decide to use Europe as a little money-maker on the side while taking it royally in the arse in US and Japan?
I think its not impossible that sony shareholders dissatisfaction etc has forced them to cut back on the heavy loss-making they were previously doing and raise the price to the point where they break even here where they still can, though if that is true it likely means they will not be lowering any prices anywhere anytime soon as many seem to be expecting them to and all that implies for the consoles future market share.
Removing the hardware compatability in favor of a software version while it is still "significantly less" effective combined with the price hike definetely hammers home that sony care more for the bottom line right now than they do the buyers for me though.
xbox360 and wii are both avalaible in masses, and are cheaper.......
i find this rather ironic
I guess it would be safe to presume the hardware will eventually be removed from all region's consoles (good business sense) but the fact that Europe gets the 'reduction' first is pretty hilarious. Way to go Sony.
All this has to be hurting Sony bad and hopefully they will learn from the expierience and start caring about the people who give them money.
Team leader: "so guys..., anymore wise ideas to make some money back"
Work experience guy:"we could make two people share one controller and charge twice as much for them!!"
Team leader: "I love you man !"
The cost of the extra hardware was probably miniscule, and was one cost cut that shouldn't have been made.
I the software emulation just works, then all will be forgiven, but I seriously doubt it will be that smooth.
Ken Kutaragi
Haha, good quote.
I don't care about Sony doing this at all though. You lot would get your knickers in a twist over a £5 price increase.
Software emulation as pointed out was the initial aim, and I still believe that with time it will be sorted. At the end of the day, I am not buying a £400+ console focused around image quality to play some 2 year old game. You buy a PS3 to play PS3 games, this generation games, this generation graphics.
Why are the Xbox Live Marketplace, Virtual Console and PSN so popular then?
It seems quite a lot of people are interested in playing 'older' games.
It's the principle that's the issue...
I've not bought a 360 because honestly, there aren't that many games I want to play on it. But that's neither here nor there, really.
It wasn't that long ago that I was saying, "Hm... the price of the PS3 isn't as bad as I feared it might be" (given that quite often the exchange rate between the USD and UKP is roughly 1:1 when it comes to things you can buy on both sides of the pond...) but this is really getting stupid.
I don't expect perfect backwards compatibility - it was patently obvious they couldn't get that right even with the PS2 chips inside the PS3 - but to say that one sales area is going to have something else cut out, when we've already got it later than the US and Japan, and at much higher cost is just the final kick in the proverbial groin.
>:(
Bad move from sony. I already didn't like the look of the PS3 in general, this makes me even more assured that they....suck
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R98qC0fd_1w
what's the next move of Sony, removing the blue-ray drive and still charge the same?
Well no, it's not, it was said by them a very long time ago, in fact, back at E3 I seem to recall they were saying they would have software emulation, and people kicked up a fuss when they said it was hardware initially for some reason. Their plans for this have been public for a very long time.
To all you people complaining and wanting to import, the article is a bit misleading, this isn't just Europe, this is global, all PS3s made from now on will have software emulation, it just so happens that because Europeans had their launch delayed, they get software emulation from day one.
Hardware emulation, AFAIK, is the best you can possibly get, since you can't get better than playing a PS2 game on effectively a PS2. Software emulation always has problems, so it's not a big surprise to me that there are a lot of games that arn't compatible, and I'm assuming Sony are working on this constantly, just as MS are.
Did you expect to pay for the PS3 at roughly the same price as the yanks do? If you did you should really open your eyes and see that EVERYTHING is horribly overpriced over in the UK...EVERYTHING, including sausages, but they're a bit better cos they don't have VAT.
The early adopters in the US and Japan, for once, are people are benefiting from it.
This does seem just an excuse for more Sony bashing to me, and this time I don't think it's really deserved.
I seem to remember news a while ago from sites like play.com that they've had more pre-orders of PS3s than any other console. Which is surprising, saying for both the 360 launch and the Wii launch they were notoriously bad a fulfilling the pre-orders.
It could be a regional thing however but I don't think so.
Basically, it's too expensive, and nobody wants it anyway...
Go to Playasia > buy a PS3 60GB model for $599 > pay $50 extra shipping = Happy dude but you can't play pal ps2/ps1 game ;( .
Sony has just shot themselves in the foot with the PS3...again...
sony make more (ie less is taken from taxes etc) if they market the PS3 as a computing solution not just as a games platform, thats why there is a big push with linux this generation.
In all fairness, its a fact that everything costs more in Europe (just look at price differences in software if you think this is bad), and ignoring the high launch price (which will come down). The PS3 still remains the most powerful and innovative console this generation, but as everyone knows the console is nothing without content, and the only game on either the other 2 consoles which would make me think of switching is Zelda (i will buy a wii eventually to play it). Sony is using its market muscle to make sure that the most advanced technology does win this time, even though high prices to start with may disgruntle many in the end they will still be top of the tree (maybe with less market share) come next generation.
And to the guy who said Sony is the only one losing money for every console they sell, there not. Nintendo are the only ones and thats simply because there machine isn't as expensive to make (read advanced). The big difference is that Sony will basically [insert adjective] Microsoft in terms of software sales to bolster the money lost on the production of the machine.
I figured it was a bit of time for some tag-teaming :p
Microsoft started out on a modest loss but supposedly they moved into profit per console sold some months back as the technology matured more quickly than the prices dropped.
Haha! I love it!
i especially love the stand asking to preorder PS3 with a 360 holding it up :p
We could only chose between the US and Japanese model, whatever.
I never really thought about getting a new console such as the 360, Wii, PS3, why? - Because I don't need one, infact I sold my PS2.
I've tried all of the consoles and I have to say the Xbox actually is improving dramatically in many ways, and Sony's PS3 is going downhill.
The PS3 is ********, especially in Europe now that they have decided to do this. It's taking money out of Europeans pockets.
Lastly you have to remember that we are probably a small community of people comapred to the general population of Playstation owners. We are also probably more knowledgable and educated on hardware specifics like this change on the PS3.
Most of the general populatoin probably couldn't care less and that's who Sony is targetting, the fan boys, the kids that get mommy or daddy to buy the PS3 and just generally rich idiots.
it's just a plain dual shock now.
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/2007/02/23/euro_ps3/
EDIT: the press release they mention doesn't talk about the sixaxis being cut. in fact they say it's included. i just read it so, i have to ask, wtf? why did tomshardware put that in :S
Wow.
So it sounds like they are hiding something from us. I personally reckon it didn't pass an FCC style test.
Also, it can't be plain dual shock, because dual shock has force feedback, and I heard that Sony had had licensing problems and had had to remove FF capability from PS3? Maybe I imagined that.
No idea where Toms got their information from, but the terms "someone" and "arse" come to mind.
Personally I don't care about all this, because I wasn't gonna buy a PS3 anyway.. I have a high-end PC and Xbox 360 already which will do fine for my gaming needs the coming years..
Is that really enough of a saving to warrant removing the chip? I mean, they're still gonna make a whopping loss on each system - is a $27 saving worth it?
kenco_uk - why would they want to sell it to the same people again? If they are making a loss on every unit, they only want to ship units so they can get people buying games. If Jimmy buys a PS3 now then shelves it to buy a 'new' model a year down the line, Sony subsidises two consoles but only gets revenue from one customer's game purchases.
namely because a) you wouldn't be able to port games
b) everyone would be mad as hell at Sony <_< (well more-so then usual)
although, they usually only subsidise consoles to start, so your probably not getting a subsidised console the second time, or the PS3 will have broken in 2 years and if they can sell an "improved" one you might continue buying stuff for it
euro warranty is 1 year.
think about how much more units fail in a year compared to the first 90 days. they have to recoup their costs for replacement somewhere and it would be unfair to burden the US consumers with that. why should they pay more for something they don't get?
they also have to ship them further.
it all adds up.
Shipping - hmm. The PS3 may be big and heavy, but it's not that big or heavy. Boxes of (bulky and heavy compared to their value) clothes, shoes etc. made in the far east get here cheaply enough for Tesco to sell them for about 3p and still turn a profit. Again, I think Sony needs to come up with a better excuse. It may, as you say, 'all add up' to the fair equivalent price being £380, but definitely not £425, especially with reduced functionality. I bet we'll be expected to pay more for the games as well.
So £412 or £425.
I;m not trying to defend Sony, £425 is a lot for a console.
Infant mortality - It dies early in its life
Standard Lifetime - The unit enters its most reliable period, and is least likely to fail during this time
End of Life - as the unit grows older it becomes more an more likely to fail
(the actual headings i used are probably wrong, but i cant remember them exactly, however you get my point)
So really, the 1 year guarantee is pretty useless, as it covers the infant mortality period, which is good, but then the area of best reliability
This is why extended warranties from Curry's and such are such a stupid idea, because your paying for the most reliable part of the units lifetime
I see your point, that there are hidden costs, but they just don't add up to the price Sony wants to charge.
Also, there's the fact that you pay about 10-25% of the cost of the item for the extended warranty, which is massively more than the risk of the thing breaking during that period. Massive consumer rip-off. My tip is - go to John Lewis, get them to price match wherever's the cheapest, bada bing bada bay, free 5 year extended warranty. Have it.
their deal is, if you haven't claimed on it after it expires, you get the money back (of course they've earned interest on it all that time) not a bad deal though
Just think about how many tons of electric equipment Sony has to ship around the world a month, don't forget that Sony does not just make Playstations, they will be sending off container ship after container ship. I actually really don't think that shipping the PS3 will increase the total shipping expenses that Sony has a month (at least not by much). It's not likely that Sony has a PS only container ship, more likely that the PS's are just a few containers (you can pack a lot of consoles in a container!) on a ship full of TV's, computers, ect.
A thought, we all talk about how many PS3 units are sold a month, wonder how many TV's, computers, camcorders, MP3 players ect that Sony sells a month..? Probably a lot more than PS3 units (not just because they are selling badly).
When will these corporations realise that, in the days of the internet, where instant price checking across the globe is possible, they can't get away with sneaky territorial price differentials?