Apple's Cook heaps scorn on Microsoft's Metro UI
Apple chief executive Tim Cook has compared Microsoft's Metro UI plans to merging a toaster and a refrigerator.
During a question-and-answer session following the earnings call, Cook - who took over the reins from founder Steve Jobs - was asked if Apple had any plans to merge its tablet and laptop efforts, as with Microsoft's upcoming Windows 8. 'You can converge a toaster and a refrigerator,' Cook replied, 'but those aren't going to be pleasing to the user.'
Claiming that any convergence between tablets and laptops would result in a dilution of both, Cook further explained that 'we are not going to that part, but others might from a defensive point of view.'
Cook's comment is clearly designed to attack Microsoft's Windows 8 before it even hits shops. With Intel planning touch-screen Ultrabooks running the operating system, and Microsoft's Windows Phone-inspired Metro UI proving a capable touch interface - if woeful for use with a keyboard and mouse - it's not hard to see why.
Cook, however, appears to be forgetting something: when the iPhone was first announced under Jobs' leadership, Apple made a big deal of claiming that the new iOS operating system was, at heart, the same as its OS X desktop - making Apple the first company to, borrowing Cook's phraseology, create a refrigetoaster.
Despite Cook's clear defensiveness in response to the question, and his apparent ignorance of Jobs-led iOS marketing strategies, Apple remains the company to beat for premium-priced portable products: the new high-resolution iPad is selling well, while Cook has reiterated his company's impending anti-Ultrabook innovation through its MacBook Air line.
That's a second fight Apple's picking: Intel is rumoured to be betting heavily on its Ultrabook project, using technology it originally licensed to Apple for the original MacBook Air. With Cook's convergence comments applying equally to both Windows 8 and Intel's touch-enabled Ultrabooks - due for launch at the same time as Microsoft's latest operating system - Cook is clearly not out to win friends.
Previous Article
78 Comments
Discuss in the forums ReplyIn defence of this Cook chap, IOS maybe be at heart Tiger or Snowleopard or what ever OS X is called this week but when you sit at a macbook you get a desktop OS when you use your iPad you get a touchscreen environment. They may have made a refrigetoaster but the toasting device is superficially separate from the fridge. MS seems to be trying to fit the heating element of the toaster into the vegetable drawer to push the image to extremes.
http://www.aeropause.com/wordpress/archives/images/2008/07/wallace-580x580.png
Also, Metro UI=good on tablets and phones, bad on desktops and laptops.
I'm certainly not an Apple hater, but I do wonder if Cook protests too much. Metro is a genuinely innovative GUI and superb for mobile touch devices. It makes iOS look dated. I agree that Microsoft has tried to converge Windows Mobile with Windows desktop too early; better to follow Apple's approach and develop two seperate product lines and carry over to the other some features that have been proven by experience to work on one. But I would not sound so cocky, unless iOS 6 is going to be an absolutely spectacular innovation, like Windows Mobile 7 was compared to Windows Mobile 6.
I can't help but be sympathetic though to Cook's comments. The Metro desktop is designed for a touch screen tablet, and from what I understand the 'classic' desktop in Windows 8 isn't anywhere near as good as it is on Windows 7: hardly my idea of a universal OS. Also, I question the practicality of laptops where the primary means of manipulating the OS is though the touch screen. I use a tablet as my main web browser and media player, and a large part of the user experence is the way I hold the tablet and the gestures I use. I can't think of a way of handling a laptop that would allow me to swipe, and scrunch, and tap in anywhere near as fluid a way as I can on a tablet, simply because the tablet lies flat and you look down on it; whilst the laptop screen you look across from.
IB8WLpBaPKo
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk 2
Your understanding would be wrong then. It has a few minor improvements.
I'd certainly agree that a lot of the issues raised on the web come down to personal preference. Things like the move to the ribbon interface in windows are a welcome development. But the legacy desktop still attempts to combine the metro elements designed for tablet computers with a working environment intended for PC's using mice and keyboards.
An example would be the start menu, which has a redesigned all programmes (all apps???) submenu. This involves showing an array of apps across the screen. It's an interesting interface, but it's also shoehorning a tablet view onto a desktop screen. I've personally chossen a large monitor for my computer because I want to be able to fit more information onto my screen; not to release Microsoft to produce an interface that's larger and prettier but only ends up displaying the amount of information I could get on a 17 inch screen five years ago.
Windows 8 preview (to me anyway) ends up giving me the impression that Microsoft expect to abandon the traditional desktop interface when Windows 9 comes along. It's a bit like when you tried to set up the old style desktop in Windows Vista. It was there, and clearly had been put there to give users a choice. But the effort wasn't put in, because Microsoft wanted you to move over to the aero basic interface.
I think the point is that it's a different OS platform. There is a difference between making two OS's look similar and getting Mac OSX Lion to run on an iPad
I can only comment on a similar thing that has already happened with linux. Ubuntu already did what microsoft have done. Their users weren't happy making linuxmint more popular. In fact ubuntus move to unity and Gnome 3s moving in the same direction forced the creation of MATE and Cinnamon. Personally I like XFCE/LXDE so no problems for me.
Thing is though Microsoft have moved to where apple will be in the future. Maybe Mr Cook is a little annoyed at being pre-empted. I wont be moving to Win8 though.
Both seem to be playing catch up with GNU/Linux though:D
sent from HTC Sensation
Pfft, Apple. Rip-off, PoS, snobby, elitist tossers!
I won't have anything to do with them.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
;)
Once setup correctly, it seems makes everything a lot faster getting to the applications you want. Between now and release I reckon that they'll make more improvements to it as well.
As for Apple, if there ever was an ideal time for them to release OS X as a standalone OS for PCs and price the hell out of it, this would be it IMHO - as people will have to change UI at some point, they could use it to they're advantage saying that if you're changing, you may as well change to something that is designed for all your iProducts...
Note I'm not a fan of OSX - merely stating that this would be an ideal time for Apple to gain marketshare by piggy-backing off the inevitable haters of Win8
Apple won't do that. They'd have to actually develop more than 5 drivers.
Lol.
The silly thing for MS though is if only they added one tiny little additional feature to Win 8 that allowed you to swap the Metro interface for the Win 7 Start menu, 99% of the criticisms of Win 8 would disappear in an instant.
Go into the OSX terminal and run the "uname" command.
Also, put in it in your mobile iDevice.
You'll get Darwin (UNIX) as the uname.
You're ever so slightly confusing things here. The core kernel of iOS is the same as OS X - however, the interface on top is radically different. The problem he's pointing out with Win8 is that what works well for a tablet doesn't work well for laptops from an interface point of view.
There may be a point there.
Now if you'll excuse me, I have an overwhelming urge to buy a turtleneck, hang out in Starbucks and write sad emo poetry about RISC on an overpriced tablet.
I almost feel compelled to ask - are you making this judgement through reading up on Metro, or have you actually tried it? I was apprehensive until trying it and it really isn't that bad once you get used to it.
The comparison to Windows ME did make me chuckle - although I'm pretty sure the consumer preview is more reliable than Windows ME ever was. For sh**s and giggles I might load ME onto a virtual machine with the same config later and see what happens...
I'm pretty sure there were plenty of people that would have said the same thing when Windows 95 was released and yet Windows 95 has provided the basis for Windows for the last 7 years.
Fair play, I've not tried using it via an RDC connection - I've been using VMware player and fullscreening the machine instead. I'll give RDC a go tonight - hopefully the issues will be resolved by the full release.
As far as standard use goes though, I've not had any major issues, hence the having no problems with Metro thus far. I guess different types of use will show different problems
In terms of OS, all of them suck in at least one respect, whether that be Windows, OSX, OS/2 or Linux.
As for a company sucking, Apple are returning a healthy profit last time I checked. Obviously they don't suck that much......
Dude, that wasn't just you! We had them too, as recently as 2010 :D
260 hot pockets in the fridge, microwave up top. Wasn't healthy, but boy was it perfect for those 24-36 hour weekend gaming sessions. Although you'd be lucky if you could poop right a week later.
When historians look back upon the 21st century they will no doubt praise this day as the genesis of the refridgetoaster, the pinnacle of human invention :D
Every new version of windows for the desktop brings in the hate from people that got too cosy with their current ways. i'll reserve judgement until i try the released version.
Tried it now. I can see what you mean - it definitely makes things a bit more tricky albeit not impossible. All that needs to be done is for MS to make the trigger area a little bigger.
I got tired of using Windows 8 on a desktop PC. Too much hassle to do stuff. It doesnt help that I spend my work time with XP or 7 machines.
I dont understand this kind of statements:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/50787/Apple/cannot_install.jpg
...for my IT department. Fail.
Yup I think so - I just think it's a better way of organising the main programs you need for easy quick access.
One annoyance is the messenger app is schizophrenic at best for me. It signs me in and out more than a hooker's underwear goes up and down. But then that's completely going off topic...
The OSX most advanced OS in the world line got tiresome years ago, especially given the core design is now what 12 years old.
And yet the more I think about it, the more I come to te conclusion that my next work computer is going to be a Mac (probably a MacBook Air). I adore taking my PC to pieces, upgrading it so it will run the latest Sims (simulations, not the big brotheresque EA franchise) and generally fixing the latest problem that arises. But if that's my attitude, then I'm better off with a second work computer that just, well umm works. And for that kind of no stress environment; at the moment the people at Apple make a compelling product.
And I think that is where a lot of the concerns with Windows 8 are coming from. It doesn't seem like an OS that is built for soeone who just wants to write a letter, or recieved the odd email from a relative. It seems like an OS that has every social media portal /fashion / fad bolted on and intergrated into it by default. And that means there is a lot of code that could be flawed, a lot of potential driver issues, potential security flaws other failure points. And that's not what the average user wants from their PC. It's no coincidence that the best OS's MS have ever built have been Windows 98 SE, Windows XP and Windows 7; in each case evolutionary jumps where they (arguably) stripped out a lot of the bloat they'd introduced in previous versions.
MS are best when they build simple platforms that third parties can use to launch their innovative products. And to their credit they have built the best platform available to the IT world for that purpose. They are at their worst when they try and do the innovative stuff themselves, and Windows 8 looks like its going to be a prime example of that.
Apparently not:
http://www.apple.com/macosx/
Microsoft hasn't even tried to emulate the way you use the touch interface with the mouse. My very first thought on this was "why doesn't click'n'drag work?" Apparently I'm not the only one, as I've read much the same in magazines, as well as having heard it "elsewhere". There was even a test somewhere, where people tried the touch interface on a touch-enabled screen and then failing utterly when put in front of a traditional desktop with a keyboard and mouse. Microsoft is doing usability studies? But of course they are...
That's actually a brilliant point, I never thought about that. Either a lockout when a full screen app is running or a toggle key to switch the hotspots on and off would be a good bet.
Will have a play with a full screen program and see what happens tomorrow - running a VM, my choices of what to use are a bit limited, but I'll find something. Hopefully Starcraft 1 w/Brood War
This is a PC enthusiasts forums. Enjoy your Crapbook.
http://www.seattlerex.com/seattle-rex-vs-apple-the-verdict-is-in/
I don't know what kind of work you do, but the very idea of using a MacBook Air in a work environment boggles the mind.
An 1.8GHz i7 with a 256GB drive and a 13" screen (the biggest they do) is £1500...and that's with a max resolution of 1440x900, Intel HD 3000 graphics, no ethernet port. Sweet! Not.
Most of the time, my laptop is used in the field for transcription, recording, writing and copy filing. The heaviest thing it'll be asked to do is edit a few raw files from my camera. I don't *need* a massive screen, eight-core 17GHz processor and a zillion terabytes of storage for that.
Yes, I could buy a budget laptop instead - heck, my HP was about £700 when I got it. But the budget laptop would be bulkier, harder to carry, and have inferior battery life - even if it might have more storage or a marginally faster processor. If I have some heavy lifting to do, I've got my desktop. Hell, I can SSH tunnel to my home network from anywhere in the world and use the X server on my laptop to run tasks on my desktop's hardware if I feel the need.
Don't fall into the trap of assuming everyone is like you. If your work requires a massive amount of RAM, storage, or processing power, that's one thing; but just because an Ultrabook or other ultra-portable wouldn't work for you doesn't mean it's useless for everyone.
My work is a mixture of typical office-type stuff, some coding, some media playback and, bizarrely, writing the odd magazine article :p
I work off a Sony Vaio laptop that wasn't much less than £1500 but is a vasty superior spec and is inherently more appropriate for working with tools like MS Office, Visual Studio, connecting to the corporate domain and playing games ;)
Actually (Mr. All-of-fourteen-posts), this is a computer enthusiasts forum. We embrace ALL the gadgets.
Speak for yourself :p
Absolutely...it's certainly not ultra-portable. You've hit the nail on the head, though....Apple Tax....which is precisely why, in the business context, I wouldn't even be entertain it unless there was a specific piece of software that you absolutely cannot avoid using.
Now, as for putting Metro on everything . . . I'll just wait until I get enough feedback on whether or not Windows 8 sucks or not. One thing that it seems to be leaning toward is a movement toward closed marketplace on Windows desktop machines as well. I particularly like being able to get a program from wherever I like and put it on my desktop. I don't want that to change.
That's pretty much my mindset. I already have a powerful desktop system; there isn't much point in having bulky powerful laptop as well... so I may as well go down the MacBook Air / Ultrabook route for the next portable PC and hook it up to a high res monitor when I'm at my desk.
But enough on hardware as this thread is supposed to be about OS integration.
10 years ago, I used a Windows 98 PC as my desktop workhorse and a PSION 7 running EPOC in much the same way as I would use an Ultra portable (if I had one) now. It was effective, but the problem came from compatibility between EPOC Word and MS Word 2000. In 2012, this isn't a problem. MS Word is pretty much compatible with iWork Pages, OpenOffice and goodness knows how many other word processing programmes. Standards have pretty much converged out of necessity now and we are better off for it.
Which is why Apple feels it can have iOS for its phones and tablets and OSX for its computer range. It doesn't matter that you can't run the same programme on both platforms because the two equivalent programmes can read and process the same data and effectively work together.
Microsoft on the other hand want to merge the environments, so that software on the PC works with the tablet (and presumably at some point the smartphone). Its a grand vision, but surely it requires one of two compromises. Either Tablets are going to have to focus on processing power at the expense of other attributes so that they can run software developed for the OS, or software is going to have to cut down so that it can work on the low powered tablets (which means Angry Birds type games becoming the PC norm). I can't see the former option working to well, and as someone who is enthusiastic about computer applications (games and others) that drive my PC hardware to the edge; I've very uncomfortable about the latter option personally.
XXAOSICXX made a legitimate point about the Macbook Air (and other ultrabooks) being underpowered. Absolutely right, but if every game from next year is designed to run on tablet hardware running Windows 8 (which from a market penetration point of view makes sense); then surely we on this forum will lose our hobby as their won't be an enthusiast market left.
Ask away good buddy. We have a test machine in the office specifically for Windows 8, because we're computer technicians and because it gives us something else to argue about.
Fair play, it's just the way I read the previous comment made me think it was based upon speculation rather than experience. That said I've been doing six things at once all day, so probably got a bit confuzzled :)
They really don't. You'd think so, but the service (and the level of discount available) from Apple is appalling.
They need an option for when you install windows for if you want it or not, very simple solution.
That took longer than I expected...
I'd love a Macbook but it does seem a waste just to stick in a cupboard and use my android tablet hooked up to my Linux network.... Seriously learn to read your audience. This is an enthusiasts forum not a MS fan club.
difference is, there is no desktop environment that are untouch-friendly. to the user, it's a touch device, it's not a mixture.
however, i would say the OS X Lion's launchpad interface is like Metru UI: a refrigetoaster. although it's optional meaning you can use it like a traditional desktop without problem. unlike the stupid Metro UI that always gets in the way.
MS jumped the gun - Apple had it right in not cramming them together at once - same core, different UI. See what works well on the new UI (iOS) and gently integrate that to the old (OS X). MS done fcuked this up good - cram them together in a really haphazard, half-assed way, and watch average users flock to Apple because Apple wasn't so stupid as to completely redesign the UI and not even do a good job of it, to boot.
I'm gonna be so pissed if MS pisses away their marketshare based on stupid "how does I wrote UI?" idiocy. I think I'll hate on Ballmer for this - he doesn't strike me as exactly in touch with what the market wants. At least when I design user-facing things, I try really hard to make them idiot-proof. Of course, idiocy knows no bounds, but that doesn't mean I give up and design based on what I think is cool. I do another round of idiot-proofing.
Sounds like you could save yourself some money for work if you went for an Acer Apsire One 772 netbook.
7hrs battery life and lightweight ;)
Imagine an Asus Transformer Prime which has all the ARM Processor and gubbins stored in the "tablet" part running the ARM version of Windows 8, that would work great as a fast access tablet since Metro looks fantastic for finger friendly use. However if you needed the legacy support for x86 Programs you can dock it with a keyboard dock, in which an X86 processor takes over and runs standard, non metro, windows. Best of the laptop and tablet worlds in one device
I was only half joking but on the good side this netbook has an 11.6 inch screen plus an AMD C-60 dual core CPU, arguably better than an Atom, IMO.
It's sad really, I'm sure all companies screw over their consumers to an extent, but why do they feel they have to? Maybe I'm more biased against Apple because of the crap they did, not that I can actually remember what happened, but still.
As Nexxo said, all gadgets here :P plus an you must have been listening to Apple propaganda, as an Apple computer is still a PC
So you could say I am Microsoft biased...
However, my phone is an Android and so far this Metro UI is doing nothing for me!
Have you had direct dealings with Apple, or joining in with the crowd in Apple hating. I genuinely wonder how you could possibly hate a company. I just don't use them, and don't let them get to me personally.
Hell yes. They'll never do this however, because they will likely be afraid that it will dilute the user experience - and create an awful lot more work for them. One of the reasons that OS X "just works" is the relative lack of drivers it needs. If you've got some obscure hardware you may need some extra kexts/drivers here and there, but for the vast majority of Apple machines this is not the case: install the OS and you're away. You can do the same with Windows 7, but you'd still want optimised drivers for things like graphics. You don't need this in OS X. But if it suddenly had to start supporting a much wider range of hardware, that much-vaunted stability and ease of use would start to go out of the window without a huge effort from Apple; it's not likely that they'd make a profitable return on such an investment.
Though I would more than welcome a proper release of OS X for the PC; I've already used my PC as a "hackintosh" (using a proper retail copy and not an OEM disc, before you ask) and I actually don't mind OS X.
You forgot Windows 2000 ;). I'd argue that was more of an "evolutionary jump" than WinXP was: it was the first OS to combine the ease of use and compatibility of the home desktop with stable, secure and network-friendly workstation features (though WinXP was better for remote access/VPN). It still had the original Win98 style appearance, but had many of the advantages of WinNT4: better networking/domain support, multi-processor/multi-threading support, better memory management, better stability, etc... WinXP was basically the same core OS as Win2000 with some media improvements (as well as some networking changes that weren't really relevant to me then) and a horrible new look; horrible at least in my book - at least you could turn it off. At the time it felt like WinXP just had too much un-needed bloat; lots of little things like built in support for CD burning or WMP which could easily be achieved with third-party applications. It helps that the system requirements were far lower, too: WinXP really needed around 1GB RAM to run smoothly, whereas Win2K could cope on far less. WinXP was definitely an improvement over 2K, but it wasn't quite the "revolution" that Win2K was.
Man, it took me a *long* time to switch from Win2000 to WinXP; as they were essentially the same thing, there was no real reason to upgrade. I only really made the switch when applications I used regularly no longer supported Win2000.
It was insecure. I mean, you didn't even have to log in to have full administrative rights! (Good old "Cancel" button!)
AND, "format C:" was too easy to accomplish.
Before Win2K/WinXP, few people were familiar with even the concept of an Admin account...