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Why you should insist on USB 3

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ZeDestructor 21st March 2012, 08:59 Quote
How about eSATA? I for one have an eSATA dock (has usb2 as well) and the necessary port is found on most machines. Since the disk is attached directly to the chipset, its basically running as fast as it will ever run.
Combatus 21st March 2012, 09:30 Quote
That is another option, if your external caddy supports it (a vast majority of 2.5in external drives are USB 2 or USB 3 though) however I've lost count of the number of people that have told me they hate it because of the connector - I too have found it a little too easy to pull out. Just moving my PC once saw it ping out of the socket on my motherboard!
BLC 21st March 2012, 09:36 Quote
To be honest, I've never really bothered with external hard disks. I've always preferred an internal disk, even for backup purposes. I don't really share files large enough to warrant a USB hard drive; a flash drive has always sufficed.

USB3 is far better, but USB2 is so ubiquitous that it'll take an awful long time for people to switch.

And by the way...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Page 1, Paragraph 7
The quoted figures of 5Gbps (625MB/sec) aren’t quite what you can expect, especially if you're not using an SSD, but as our testing shows, you can easily see upwards of 80MB/sec using USB 3 storage devices – a huge boost over their USB 3 counterparts, which can barely manage 20MB/sec - and this means you’ll lose little in the way of speed if you decide to use a USB hard disk instead of one connected to a SATA port.

That should be: a huge boost over their USB 2 counterparts, which can barely manage 20MB/sec
Quote:
Originally Posted by Page 2, Last Paragraph
You’re next PC or motherboard or case for that matter certainly will, so investing in a USB 2 external hard disk is a very short-sighted thing to do, especially given how expensive they are.

You're and your - learn the difference! :( *wanders off somewhere to seethe with rage*
Combatus 21st March 2012, 09:45 Quote
Thanks, sorted!
BLC 21st March 2012, 09:53 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Combatus
Thanks, sorted!

Sorry, don't mean to be picky!
ZeDestructor 21st March 2012, 10:17 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Combatus
That is another option, if your external caddy supports it (a vast majority of 2.5in external drives are USB 2 or USB 3 though) however I've lost count of the number of people that have told me they hate it because of the connector - I too have found it a little too easy to pull out. Just moving my PC once saw it ping out of the socket on my motherboard!

I find it perfectly fine on the laptops with integrated esata/USB combo ports. If anything, I find them too stiff and unwilling to come out... I personally doubt I'll be abandoning eSATA in the near o medium future, especially since you can happily get SATA to eSATA cables and with some help from a PSU with power, easily bypass the dock completely.
Asouter 21st March 2012, 10:41 Quote
There's not many devices out there that are USB 3
SpAceman 21st March 2012, 10:49 Quote
I have found that most retailers have completely phased out their stock of USB 2 external HDDs. There are still quite a few USB 2 flash drives though.
tonyd223 21st March 2012, 10:50 Quote
I'm the old guy here (can remember CP/M) and I think usb is one of the GREAT pc innovations. Faster, more power, and backwards compatible - what's not to like? Can't wait for the increase in true usb 3 peripherals though, so where are the HD webcams? The quad tuner DVB-T HD sticks? It's not just about hard drives...
Dave Lister 21st March 2012, 10:57 Quote
I recently built an HTPC which happened to have USB 3 on the motherboard and I also picked up an external 2Tb drive for my media because the htpc is offline. It allows me to rip/download on my main pc and transfer the content more easily. I have to say that transferring to the htpc is much quicker than transferring from my USB 2 PC. My only gripe is that the external drive's USB cable has a weird non standard looking connector at the end going into the drive. If all the manufacturers are using that connector then that's fine, but if not that will put me off USB 3. I'm not a fan of proprietary connectors at all - there is no need for it.
Mentai 21st March 2012, 11:06 Quote
I only transfer files to a back up once in a while, so the speed really doesn't make much difference to me. I do like the idea of increased power though, the more I can plug in without using external power the better.
Guinevere 21st March 2012, 11:16 Quote
It's a shame Apple haven't adopted USB 3 or... it's a shame the PC world hasn't jumped on Thunderbolt.

Even though Thunderbolt is the better tech (IMO) I don't mind which gets adopted as the new standard as long as one of them does!

Thunderbolt has the edge because it's based on PCIe and therefore allows use the use of external PCIe devices in an enclosure. It also carries video, eight channel audio and will allow connections over extreme distances (Using 'smart' cables of extreme price!)
BrightCandle 21st March 2012, 11:17 Quote
The slow take up is likely related more to the slow take up from chipsets on motherboards. Even Z77 isn't all USB 3 ports, its mostly USB2 with 4 USB 3 ports thrown in. The X78 motherboards all added USB3 ports with external controllers, but often those don't perform as well as Intel's chipset controller.

This revision in the specification seems to be quite costly to the chipset and motherboard manufacturers. They are trying to provide ports without replacing all the USB 2 ports. USB is a great advance from all the different ports we had for different devices and its made many things much easier. But has this step finally broken the economic model under which the ports are produced and now we are in real danger of getting stuck?
MjFrosty 21st March 2012, 11:26 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeDestructor
How about eSATA? I for one have an eSATA dock (has usb2 as well) and the necessary port is found on most machines. Since the disk is attached directly to the chipset, its basically running as fast as it will ever run.

USB 3.0 is faster than eSATA in every test you care to mention. That said, people just don't CARE about the increase as it is to the consumer every bit as the same as USB 2.0. The jump from USB 1.0 was much more significant. Much like every thing in the industry right now, it's just a stepping stone.
Guinevere 21st March 2012, 11:46 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by MjFrosty
USB 3.0 is faster than eSATA in every test you care to mention.

Nice sound-bite but not entirely accurate. There's very much mixed results when comparing eSATA to USB 3.0

EG: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqlqCoQMLsQ

EDIT:

Old link, but bit-tech also said that eSATA was faster

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/hardware/2010/02/08/benchmarks-show-esata-still-king/1

But at the end of the day it doesn't make much of a difference, they are so close to each other I'd wager that differences are more of an issue with drives, caching, chipsets and drivers than which interface is actually faster.

If you want to argue over which interface is faster then you have to go with Thunderbolt!
ZeDestructor 21st March 2012, 11:47 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by MjFrosty
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeDestructor
How about eSATA? I for one have an eSATA dock (has usb2 as well) and the necessary port is found on most machines. Since the disk is attached directly to the chipset, its basically running as fast as it will ever run.

USB 3.0 is faster than eSATA in every test you care to mention. That said, people just don't CARE about the increase as it is to the consumer every bit as the same as USB 2.0. The jump from USB 1.0 was much more significant. Much like every thing in the industry right now, it's just a stepping stone.

Is it? Oh well, I'm not switching anytime soon, since on a desktop I just plug in drives directly. Needless t say, I have/need no external enclosures.
MjFrosty 21st March 2012, 11:49 Quote
Oh don't get me wrong, I have an E-SATA dock and E-SATA hdd. No USB 3.0 devices at all currently. :)


@ Guinevere, at which point in that video should I start caring? His voice is annoying me and I have work to do ;) That article is pretty old, controllers have come a way since then
MrJay 21st March 2012, 12:07 Quote
Manufacturers need to phase out USB 2.0, saturate the motherboards with USB 3.0 connectors, make it impossible not to use USB 3.0.

As soon as this happens people will start adopting the devices.

Before mechanical storage had its massive price hike i got a WD Elements SE Portable 750 GB USB 3.0 for £48!

The crazy thing was it was priced a good £10-15 under its USB 2.0 counterpart at the same capacity!
kenco_uk 21st March 2012, 12:28 Quote
Using a USB3 2.5" external caddy I am able to write to a 640GB 5400rpm drive at around 70-80MB/s.

http://www.everythingusb.com/targus-usb-3.0-dual-video-adapter-21477.html - interesting.
Gareth Halfacree 21st March 2012, 12:32 Quote
The trouble with USB (of any flavour) is the massive CPU overhead. It's far greater than that of FireWire or eSATA. Not sure how it compares to Thunderbolt, though - I'll have to look in to that.
impar 21st March 2012, 12:45 Quote
Greetings!

USB3 connections are compatible with previous USB connections.
It will become the standard.
ZeDestructor 21st March 2012, 12:49 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by MjFrosty
Oh don't get me wrong, I have an E-SATA dock and E-SATA hdd. No USB 3.0 devices at all currently. :)

Don't get me wrong either. I'll get USB3 as well at some point, I just didn't know USB3 was actually faster. I'dlike Light Peak to succeed with optical though...
AmEv 21st March 2012, 13:11 Quote
I'd love to get USB3.

Unfortunately, my only x1 slot is covered by the graphics card. (SERIOUSLY, GIGABYTE?!?)
BLC 21st March 2012, 13:30 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gareth Halfacree
The trouble with USB (of any flavour) is the massive CPU overhead. It's far greater than that of FireWire or eSATA. Not sure how it compares to Thunderbolt, though - I'll have to look in to that.

Exactly. It may not be as noticeable these days, but it's still there. I know that FireWire uses hardware controllers in each device as opposed to relying on the CPU, but I don't know if this is also the case with Thunderbolt.

This is why FireWire was for such a long time the dominant standard for pro-audio use; USB placed too much load on the system and introduced stutters, skips, artefacts, etc. It's not so much of a problem now, but there are still many, many people out there who swear by FireWire for pro-audio.
Gareth Halfacree 21st March 2012, 13:37 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by BLC
Exactly. It may not be as noticeable these days, but it's still there. I know that FireWire uses hardware controllers in each device as opposed to relying on the CPU, but I don't know if this is also the case with Thunderbolt.
In theory, Thunderbolt is just a really long PCI Express (and DisplayPort) extension cable, so there should be little to no overhead. Theory and practice rarely match up, however, so I'll have to get my hands on a controller and an external drive to see what the reality is.
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