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Zero Noise: Seasonic's X-Series fanless PSU Preview

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rickysio 1st August 2010, 10:49 Quote
Sounds interesting, especially since it's still gold rated!
The_Beast 1st August 2010, 10:58 Quote
Pretty cool but how many people really need a fanless PSU? I bet I could turn off all my case fans and I wouldn't be able to hear my PSU.
faugusztin 1st August 2010, 11:04 Quote
Fully modular... Right, would be cool - if one could buy replacement cables, diferent length cables. None of that is provided by Seasonic, the connectors on PSU side are custom size, so you can't even make your own cables unless you mod the original ones.

Until custom cables are provided directly by Seasonic or via other entity - for example like the ModRight cables sold by FrozenCPU and PerformancePCS - then the "fully modular" is worth nothing unfortunately.
capnPedro 1st August 2010, 11:28 Quote
My HTPC had two fans in in; a Coolink SWiF 80mm on the CPU heatsink running at 9v, and a Notua 800RPM jobbie modded into a bog standard 330W Coolermaster PSU. My PSU was practically fanless!

I'd definitely buy one of these for my next dedicated HTPC, however by the time I get round to building that it'll be in about four years, and I doubt I'll need that much power. I'll porbably be able to go miniITX with a picoPSU and everything will be fanless and able to handle 1080P 3D video. Ah, technological advancement. Sweet.
DragunovHUN 1st August 2010, 11:30 Quote
Cool, i could see one of these replacing my current PSU in my desktop if the cables are long enough.
Doglobster 1st August 2010, 11:36 Quote
Exept that the massive plasma telly you're running next to your
silent Htpc has four noisy fans whirring :)
Dragunover 1st August 2010, 11:47 Quote
Man, I would be the one to want to hook up a GTX 460 and Phenom II X6 to this thing...
~170 watts + ~130 watts = 300 watts / 12v = only 25 amps
eldiablo 1st August 2010, 12:15 Quote
If the x650 only starts up its fan at very high load i wonder why you would want to pay extra for a fanless design thats 250watt less. I bet if you stay below the 400watt with the x650 the fan wouldnt start up as wel and when you do need it, its there to use.
thewelshbrummie 1st August 2010, 12:20 Quote
I'll be keeping an eye on these. Even 400W is overkill for a HTPC, let alone the fully modular 500W PSU I'm using.

As for gaming... I'd prefer 500W but it's safe to say that my PSU is by far the loudest component in my gaming rig - and as I prefer a quiet PC over absolute performance itwould certainly be of interest.

faugusztin hasa good point though - replacement/extension cables are a must. I've had enough problems finding replacement fan clips for my HTPC CPU cooler and I'd take issue if the cables weren't long enough
Bindibadgi 1st August 2010, 12:27 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragunover
Man, I would be the one to want to hook up a GTX 460 and Phenom II X6 to this thing...
~170 watts + ~130 watts = 300 watts / 12v = only 25 amps

Yes but would you load all the cores and all the GPU at the same time? Unlikely. Even for a normal gaming system with a simple quad core and GTX 460 it'll be enough :)
Bloody_Pete 1st August 2010, 15:26 Quote
I'm really interested in stuff like this. My PSU is annoying loud under load, and it'll be worse when my plans to watercool my GPU are finished. My case makes no noise, turning off the fans makes next to no difference, and my CPU uses Gentle Typhoons, so very little noise there, but they're on a fan controller so it's easily managed.

Damn PSU's!!!!!! Still more tempted by the Enermax Revolution 85+ though, as they're pure sex...
IanW 1st August 2010, 15:43 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by faugusztin
Fully modular... Right, would be cool - if one could buy replacement cables, diferent length cables. None of that is provided by Seasonic, the connectors on PSU side are custom size, so you can't even make your own cables unless you mod the original ones.

Until custom cables are provided directly by Seasonic or via other entity - for example like the ModRight cables sold by FrozenCPU and PerformancePCS - then the "fully modular" is worth nothing unfortunately.

You are mistaken. Those are standard Molex "Mini Fit Jr" connectors, see FrozenCPU's DIY/Mod Parts section.
You just have to be careful to match the pinout of the cable you're replacing.
Use a multimeter to check which pin goes where on the original part.
True modding is building it yourself, not buying pre-made parts.
Bindibadgi 1st August 2010, 16:17 Quote
Bloody_Pete - The Rev 85+'s are nice but they're getting a bit old now. Enermax recently brought out their mid-range Gold series which are very nice, and personally I'd recommend the X-650 as I use one personally and we've all been impressed with it in the lab. ;)

I'm sure there are others like from Corsair perhaps, but I've not used them recently.
rickysio 1st August 2010, 16:39 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bindibadgi
Bloody_Pete - The Rev 85+'s are nice but they're getting a bit old now. Enermax recently brought out their mid-range Gold series which are very nice, and personally I'd recommend the X-650 as I use one personally and we've all been impressed with it in the lab. ;)

I'm sure there are others like from Corsair perhaps, but I've not used them recently.

I'm planning on using them in my next upgrade. ;)
Lizard 1st August 2010, 16:52 Quote
I'm off to do some PSU testing in Germany in a few weeks for some reviews on bit-tech.
Aracos 1st August 2010, 18:35 Quote
No point in me buying a fanless PSU since I've never actually seen mine turn on :D

One thing I gotta say is: *sigh* Not even owned the bloody thing 5 months and they're gonna be revising it! DAMN IT!!!! I bet it's for the weak 5v rail. WHY I OUGHTA!
Krayzie_B.o.n.e. 1st August 2010, 19:04 Quote
A fan less PSu WOW this would be great for computers operating in the sub zero temperatures of deep space.

If you purchase a high end PSu they are very quiet even under full load and this will allow you room to add more components without worry of going over 400 watts.

The PSu produces too much heat for passive cooling, sure they made a fan less PSU but that's too much heat sitting there degrading components over a short period of time.
Jipa 1st August 2010, 19:10 Quote
Fanless PSUs are pretty gimmicky. Really the rest of the system needs to have no moving parts at all for these to make sense. And fanless parts means low performance, which means you can get away with a picoPSU. Even a 400 W wattage means there will be some pretty high power stuff (gaming graphics) or a ton of hard drives, both of which makes having a fanless PSU pointless.

Don't take this as silly excuses and random nonsense either, I'm using Nightjar 400 W.
Aracos 1st August 2010, 19:50 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krayzie_B.o.n.e.
A fan less PSu WOW this would be great for computers operating in the sub zero temperatures of deep space.

If you purchase a high end PSu they are very quiet even under full load and this will allow you room to add more components without worry of going over 400 watts.

The PSu produces too much heat for passive cooling, sure they made a fan less PSU but that's too much heat sitting there degrading components over a short period of time.

But how can you possibly say how much heat they will produce? Also do you consider 5 years a short period of time? Because I don't but that's what their warranty is. Don't put down a product that hasn't even been released yet due to "heat issues" if it was that hot in there and it was such a big threat they wouldn't even of bothered with one.
blackworx 1st August 2010, 22:30 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by IanW
You are mistaken. Those are standard Molex "Mini Fit Jr" connectors, see FrozenCPU's DIY/Mod Parts section.
You just have to be careful to match the pinout of the cable you're replacing.
Use a multimeter to check which pin goes where on the original part.
True modding is building it yourself, not buying pre-made parts.

;) Totally agree. It really galls me that the likes of FrozenPC charge $1+ each for parts that cost pennies bulk though. Last time I got lucky and randomly found a UK manufacturer who was nice about handing out samples and got what would have amounted to "$100 worth" (at FrozenPC prices) of connectors for zilch. Sadly they didn't do neon.
faugusztin 2nd August 2010, 01:25 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by thewelshbrummie
faugusztin hasa good point though - replacement/extension cables are a must. I've had enough problems finding replacement fan clips for my HTPC CPU cooler and I'd take issue if the cables weren't long enough

Seasonic doesn't sell them, the only way to get replacement cables from Seasonic is to RMA the whole PSU.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IanW
You are mistaken. Those are standard Molex "Mini Fit Jr" connectors, see FrozenCPU's DIY/Mod Parts section.

I know they are Mini Fit Jr. But - good luck finding the ones they used, with the lock keys at the positions they have :
http://images.bit-tech.net/content_images/2009/10/first-look-seasonic-x-series-psu/6.jpg

If you think you can get them in shops with no problems, could you please write the exact part numbers for these Molex Mini Fit Jr. connectors ? Nothing would make me happier than getting them from local electronics shop. The 4 and 8-pin EPS is ok, those looks like 1:1 the standard EPS connectors. The rest ? 12-pin for dual PCI-E, 16+10 pin for 24-pin motherboard - you won't find those at frozencpu and i was unable to decode their P/N from Molex website. The 6-pin for peripherial has different key pin layout compared to the PCI-E 6-pin connector.
Getting rid of original ultra-long Seasonic cables and replacing the connectors on my single braid extensions i have would save me a lot of cabling mess in my case, but without connectors i can't do anything (and i will never remove connectors from original cables with no replacement cables available from Seasonic).

PS: With key pin i mean rectangle shaped pins vs pins with rectangle shape with 2 keyed corners.
Krayzie_B.o.n.e. 2nd August 2010, 01:39 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by storm20200


Storm20200

But how can you possibly say how much heat they will produce? Also do you consider 5 years a short period of time? Because I don't but that's what their warranty is. Don't put down a product that hasn't even been released yet due to "heat issues" if it was that hot in there and it was such a big threat they wouldn't even of bothered with one.


1 watt = 3.412 BTUs

400 watts = 1364.8 BTUs

Note: For Reference: 1 BTU is the amount of energy required to raise (or lower) 1 (one) pound of water 1 (one) degree Fahrenheit. Water weights 8.34 ponds per gallon

Now due to science Heat and Temperature are two different things and there is no formula for converting BTUs to Degrees directly but you would have enough BTUs (1334) to raise the temperature of 1 gallon of water from 40 degrees to 200 degrees Fahrenheit which is boiling point.

8.34# X 160 degrees=1334 BTUS

So we will take room temperature of 75 then add the 160 degrees of capable heat and get 235 F or 113 C which is still a lot of heat floating around components and your CPU instead of being blown out the back.
Sure it's the air in the confined space of your rig versus 1 gallon of water but air is easier to heat versus water.
GoodBytes 2nd August 2010, 02:04 Quote
I am sure that these PSU's are considering that they are in a well ventilated case.
It would be interesting to have a PSU report their temperatures, like our computer processors does to better see any cooling problem and not have a PSU break on us by surprise. Of course, that is easier said then done. The motherboard would need a special connector for the sensor to start with.
capnPedro 2nd August 2010, 09:19 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krayzie_B.o.n.e.
1 watt = 3.412 BTUs

400 watts = 1364.8 BTUs

{not Joules and *C like a sensible person would use :p}

I'm sure these PSUs will be a little bit more than 0% efficient.


If we imagine they're 85% efficient, a 500W PSU dumps 60W of heat. That's 60 Joules of energy per second.

Air (stp) has a specific heat capacity of 0.0013J/(cm3 K) so if we know how much air there is around the PSU we can calculate the increase in temperature from heating, and then account for the loss of heat due to convection/dissipation/etc (very hard).

Like I can be bothered to actually do the calculations, though!
Xir 2nd August 2010, 09:47 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by eldiablo
If the x650 only starts up its fan at very high load i wonder why you would want to pay extra for a fanless design thats 250watt less. I bet if you stay below the 400watt with the x650 the fan wouldnt start up as wel and when you do need it, its there to use.

You summed it up very nicely ;)
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