Originally Posted by CowBlazed Atom dual core is barely any better, it still won't play HL2 as its a CPU bound game and single threaded.
Probably the reason Intel or any manufacturers aren't in any hurry to put dual core Atom's in any netbooks, because performance is hardly any better for double the power.
thats nvidia.. almost should be their slogan XD I stopped buying anything they make- including any builds I'm working on.. not being able to play flash hd in youtube (which I've encoded myself like here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trGo-4jn61Q&fmt=22 ) is just a joke in 2009.. the ntune guy must have got a raise and then said oops oh yeah I forgot :D
Originally Posted by thehippoz thats nvidia.. almost should be their slogan XD I stopped buying anything they make- including any builds I'm working on.. not being able to play flash hd in youtube (which I've encoded myself like here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trGo-4jn61Q&fmt=22 ) is just a joke in 2009.. the ntune guy must have got a raise and then said oops oh yeah I forgot :D
ATI can't do it either on an Atom based system. Nobody is offloading flash onto the GPU and Atom isn't fast enough
It was a wild stab in the dark, but unfortunately the GeForce 9400M doesn't accelerate Flash at the moment. We asked Nvidia if it had plans to do such a thing given Atom's inability to deliver smooth playback of high-definition YouTube videos - the company declined to comment.
No graphics card accelerates flash video - it's all done by the CPU. According to this article on Adobe's website, the only time hardware acceleration is used is to upscale video to full screen - the actual decoding is still done by your CPU. This is Adobe's fault, not Nvidia's or Intel's! Hopefully they'll add support soon... especially as Silverlight does video decoding in hardware.
I really want one of these i love the idea of having it as my media center in the living room as it is that small. As said all it needs is some form of remote control and it would be perfect
Didn't Intel say that the Atom cannot be used with anything but Intel chipsets, and refused to allow Nvidia to offer the ION with the Atom? I did read something about Nvidia going with the VIA Nano..
Nvidia's Ion could stretch Intel's limited Atom and make it fast enough to cope with HD playback and basic gaming. Is it worth Ionising an Atom?
B)
I know its not exactly relevant to ion vs 945 but feel that a third "full" system would have helped people (like me!). I'm planning a swap to an atom low power system soon, but will probably have to keep a "full" system for when more power needed. It would have been nice to have a 3rd "full" system just for comparison. ie,When reading the Gimp image tests I'd have loved to have a direct comparison between say atom-945 vs atom-ion vs C2D i45 etc
Originally Posted by flibblesan Didn't Intel say that the Atom cannot be used with anything but Intel chipsets, and refused to allow Nvidia to offer the ION with the Atom? I did read something about Nvidia going with the VIA Nano..
if they do go with the nano, that will be great, because the nano, totally owns the Atom in benchmarks.
Originally Posted by ch424 No graphics card accelerates flash video - it's all done by the CPU. According to this article on Adobe's website, the only time hardware acceleration is used is to upscale video to full screen - the actual decoding is still done by your CPU. This is Adobe's fault, not Nvidia's or Intel's! Hopefully they'll add support soon... especially as Silverlight does video decoding in hardware.
Yep, it's true, but you can understand the disappointment when Ion can play Blu-ray movies but not YouTube HD. It's down to Adobe ultimately, but of course Atom isn't fast enough to do it on its own. That said, I'm hearing some interesting things about flash from a number of sources. I hope to get a better picture next week ;)
ah that makes sense.. what's flash up to now ver. 10.. I used to write flash back in version 8- never had an issue with flv play back even on a amd k6-2 (granted I wasn't playing 720p).. so I was thinking this was on nvidias end.. I guess I'm just surprised
I wonder if adobe will use graphic card accel for flv video sometime soon.. then this box would be perfect.. I really don't like nvidia cause of the marketing end of things- they like to rehash and claim things that aren't true- like when they came out with the 9800gx2- the claims on crysis with the guy making a big whoop about it in a promotional video.. only to find out it was a total pos- it's like the ntune guy took over the company!
maybe I'm not giving them a fair shake nowdays.. just feel like they've shafted enough butts in 2008 and laughed all the way to the bank (but I like some of their partners like evga)
Originally Posted by CowBlazed Atom dual core is barely any better, it still won't play HL2 as its a CPU bound game and single threaded.
Probably the reason Intel or any manufacturers aren't in any hurry to put dual core Atom's in any netbooks, because performance is hardly any better for double the power.
I'm trying not to write a text wall here, so the details will be a bit sketchy I think.
Atom is not a new architecture. The Intel CPU guys were looking at power budgets and seeing how stuff they did to improve performance affected power to fight the marketing war over power consumption AMD began.
Someone realized it was something like an exponential curve. So the looked backwards and, IIRC, started with the original Pentium architecture.
As for manufacturing, the Diamondville/945 stuff looks like it will carve out a nice in the embedded market.
Cor consumer stuff, the US15W SCH should help in the consumer space. It's only a single core but the feature sse, thermal characteristics and power usage fit better witht he netbook market.
The Panasonic Toughbook CFU1 is a prominent example of the platform, but there are a few others such as the Asus T91.
For youtube, would it be possible to make the system look like an iphone and get h.264 streams instead of flash?
Originally Posted by naokaji I think nividia is stupid for not selling that tiny system as a retail product.
I don't think it is up to them. Intel has to licence them to be able to do so, and for its own reasons it is reluctant to do so -- doesn't like the competition, for sure.
The real stupidity is Intel's, by designing a cool, low-power CPU and then coupling it to a hot, power-inefficient ageing chipset with limited features. Makes you wonder why they bothered.
The real stupidity is Intel's, by designing a cool, low-power CPU and then coupling it to a hot, power-inefficient ageing chipset with limited features. Makes you wonder why they bothered.
Because if the atom is too attractive then it starts eating into the market of their other low-cost processors?
Then why develop one in the first place? A better strategy would be to develop low-power, high featured chipsets to support their existing low-cost processors.
Seems to me this is a classic case of the left hand not knowing that the right hand is doing in a big corporation: i.e. Sales and Marketing not talking to R&D.
Originally Posted by Nexxo I don't think it is up to them. Intel has to licence them to be able to do so, and for its own reasons it is reluctant to do so -- doesn't like the competition, for sure.
The real stupidity is Intel's, by designing a cool, low-power CPU and then coupling it to a hot, power-inefficient ageing chipset with limited features. Makes you wonder why they bothered.
This particular reference box won't be on sale. It doesn't mean there won't be Ion based machines coming in the future though... and Nvidia has a license to produce chipsets for FSB-based processors (anything more than that is debatable and we're waiting for the courts to decide).
Originally Posted by Tim S This particular reference box won't be on sale. It doesn't mean there won't be Ion based machines coming in the future though... and Nvidia has a license to produce chipsets for FSB-based processors (anything more than that is debatable and we're waiting for the courts to decide).
What do you think of the value of Atom/Ion package, compared to an E5200 and micro atx G31 motherboard. IIRC, I read a review of such a system and the total power consumption was not much higher than the atom nettop, and ultimately nor was the price, but the performance was far greater. Outside of netbooks, are there really situations, where it is worth taking the hit in performance for the smaller chassis footprint?
Originally Posted by Turbotab What do you think of the value of Atom/Ion package, compared to an E5200 and micro atx G31 motherboard. IIRC, I read a review of such a system and the total power consumption was not much higher than the atom nettop, and ultimately nor was the price, but the performance was far greater. Outside of netbooks, are there really situations, where it is worth taking the hit in performance for the smaller chassis footprint?
Well, it's a question of whether you need that extra performance. For a home theatre box, you just need it to play video and be able to browse the internet (please correct me if I'm making the wrong assumption here) - that's as compute-intense as it'll get. For that, Ion makes an interesting option because it can handle everything up to high bit-rate Blu-ray discs.
The problem I found with Ion in general though was that because it was able to do tasks that even some 'full' systems can't do (like 1080p Blu-ray playback for example), I often expected it to do more than it can. The 9400M does a good job of dressing the Atom up as a capable processor when the reality is that it isn't able to do anything more intensive than word processing, (light) internet browsing and such.
Well early april comes the 2ghz atom so that would probably be a good workhorse for htpc usage, maybe your-junk-tube movies will play better. Why the hell do you want yo view youtube movies on your > 42" full hd plasma anyway...
Originally Posted by [USRF Obiwan]Well early april comes the 2ghz atom so that would probably be a good workhorse for htpc usage, maybe your-junk-tube movies will play better. Why the hell do you want yo view youtube movies on your > 42" full hd plasma anyway...
You wouldn't. But you might want to watch YouTube when you're on the move - Ion will be both in 'nettops' and 'netbooks'. Not just the former.
WANT! This looks to be exactly what I've been trying to find for some time now. The fact that the whole lot is shoehorned on to a pico itx board makes it even better.
Were there any hints at all from nVidia regarding when they believe it's likely to reach the shelves or is it just a case of wait and see?
Originally Posted by Grimloon WANT! This looks to be exactly what I've been trying to find for some time now. The fact that the whole lot is shoehorned on to a pico itx board makes it even better.
Were there any hints at all from nVidia regarding when they believe it's likely to reach the shelves or is it just a case of wait and see?
I reckon there'll be a few bits and bobs coming out before Computex and then more on show at Computex. Whenever I ask the ODMs about it though, they seem to want to run off and hide. :P
Sorry if I missed this, but what about power draw for the ION reference platform (whole system draw at the plug)? Surely that's a major factor in a box like this, which is likely to be used in an always-on scenario as say a personal server, NAS, HTPC, torrent box, etc.?
Comments 26 to 50 of 63
ReplyDefinately, it'd make a really good car pc or htpc
Source is definitely not single threaded.
ATI can't do it either on an Atom based system. Nobody is offloading flash onto the GPU and Atom isn't fast enough
Dual-core Atom is already available. Intel D945GCLF2 motherboard uses dual-core, for example.
I know its not exactly relevant to ion vs 945 but feel that a third "full" system would have helped people (like me!). I'm planning a swap to an atom low power system soon, but will probably have to keep a "full" system for when more power needed. It would have been nice to have a 3rd "full" system just for comparison. ie,When reading the Gimp image tests I'd have loved to have a direct comparison between say atom-945 vs atom-ion vs C2D i45 etc
if they do go with the nano, that will be great, because the nano, totally owns the Atom in benchmarks.
Yep, it's true, but you can understand the disappointment when Ion can play Blu-ray movies but not YouTube HD. It's down to Adobe ultimately, but of course Atom isn't fast enough to do it on its own. That said, I'm hearing some interesting things about flash from a number of sources. I hope to get a better picture next week ;)
I wonder if adobe will use graphic card accel for flv video sometime soon.. then this box would be perfect.. I really don't like nvidia cause of the marketing end of things- they like to rehash and claim things that aren't true- like when they came out with the 9800gx2- the claims on crysis with the guy making a big whoop about it in a promotional video.. only to find out it was a total pos- it's like the ntune guy took over the company!
maybe I'm not giving them a fair shake nowdays.. just feel like they've shafted enough butts in 2008 and laughed all the way to the bank (but I like some of their partners like evga)
I'm trying not to write a text wall here, so the details will be a bit sketchy I think.
Atom is not a new architecture. The Intel CPU guys were looking at power budgets and seeing how stuff they did to improve performance affected power to fight the marketing war over power consumption AMD began.
Someone realized it was something like an exponential curve. So the looked backwards and, IIRC, started with the original Pentium architecture.
As for manufacturing, the Diamondville/945 stuff looks like it will carve out a nice in the embedded market.
Cor consumer stuff, the US15W SCH should help in the consumer space. It's only a single core but the feature sse, thermal characteristics and power usage fit better witht he netbook market.
The Panasonic Toughbook CFU1 is a prominent example of the platform, but there are a few others such as the Asus T91.
For youtube, would it be possible to make the system look like an iphone and get h.264 streams instead of flash?
I don't think it is up to them. Intel has to licence them to be able to do so, and for its own reasons it is reluctant to do so -- doesn't like the competition, for sure.
The real stupidity is Intel's, by designing a cool, low-power CPU and then coupling it to a hot, power-inefficient ageing chipset with limited features. Makes you wonder why they bothered.
Because if the atom is too attractive then it starts eating into the market of their other low-cost processors?
Seems to me this is a classic case of the left hand not knowing that the right hand is doing in a big corporation: i.e. Sales and Marketing not talking to R&D.
This particular reference box won't be on sale. It doesn't mean there won't be Ion based machines coming in the future though... and Nvidia has a license to produce chipsets for FSB-based processors (anything more than that is debatable and we're waiting for the courts to decide).
What do you think of the value of Atom/Ion package, compared to an E5200 and micro atx G31 motherboard. IIRC, I read a review of such a system and the total power consumption was not much higher than the atom nettop, and ultimately nor was the price, but the performance was far greater. Outside of netbooks, are there really situations, where it is worth taking the hit in performance for the smaller chassis footprint?
Well, it's a question of whether you need that extra performance. For a home theatre box, you just need it to play video and be able to browse the internet (please correct me if I'm making the wrong assumption here) - that's as compute-intense as it'll get. For that, Ion makes an interesting option because it can handle everything up to high bit-rate Blu-ray discs.
The problem I found with Ion in general though was that because it was able to do tasks that even some 'full' systems can't do (like 1080p Blu-ray playback for example), I often expected it to do more than it can. The 9400M does a good job of dressing the Atom up as a capable processor when the reality is that it isn't able to do anything more intensive than word processing, (light) internet browsing and such.
You wouldn't. But you might want to watch YouTube when you're on the move - Ion will be both in 'nettops' and 'netbooks'. Not just the former.
Were there any hints at all from nVidia regarding when they believe it's likely to reach the shelves or is it just a case of wait and see?
I reckon there'll be a few bits and bobs coming out before Computex and then more on show at Computex. Whenever I ask the ODMs about it though, they seem to want to run off and hide. :P
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